Community Tools User Group/24-Mar-2011

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13:00  Kung Fu Marketer  hey lord, welcome back!
    and qie--hey there. welcome.
  Suspiria  Give it up, you're not in my league
  Qie  hi everybody. :)
  Tomkin Euler  well, maybe torroidal..
  Marianne McCann  waves at Qie
  Venus Petrov  awesomesauce
  draconis.neurocam  thinks its a circular room and corners are merely arbitrary
  Kung Fu Marketer  ok, we ready to get the party started?
  Venus Petrov  hey Qie
13:01  DogWomble Dollinger  gets the streamers and balloons
  Kung Fu Marketer  good idea dog. :)
  Mags Indigo  does this mean the bitching will stop?
  Marianne McCann  digs for her old Phil Linden party hat
  Mags Indigo  I find that rather entertaining
  Venus Petrov  lol Mags
  Suspiria  If telling the truth is bitching I suppose so
  Kung Fu Marketer  ok, first off. let me address the moderation discussion.
  DogWomble Dollinger  hi raymond
  Kung Fu Marketer  first, as i've said in previous weeks that we are still working closely with the moderators to find the right levels and clarify some broader rules of the road.
13:02    for example, at first the mods were giving warnings for sharing your favorite places in SL--and I have since made it very clear that this is what we want--that it's not advertising.
  Raymond Linden  Hi All
  Kung Fu Marketer  so that has since stopped.
    so, you're right in feeling that the mods have been too strict, in some aspects.
    i agree and i've asked them to losen up a bit.
13:03  Torben  Hi Raymond
  Kung Fu Marketer  over the last week, you should have seen an improvement there.
  Cummere Mayo  nope
  Kung Fu Marketer  second, we absoltuely do not play favorites.
  Suspiria  THat's not true
  Kung Fu Marketer  cummere--send me examples and i'll look into them.
  Suspiria  I sent you examples and nothing happened
  Kung Fu Marketer  ok, cummere and suspiria--hold for a sec--let me finish, k?
  Suspiria  k
13:04  Kung Fu Marketer  ok, second, we do not play favorites. the mods don't know who you are and moderate based on our communty guidelines and what is reported in their "report inappropriate content queue"
    if you're being warned, that means that other residents have reported your post. period.
13:05    we don't look around searching for violations. we mainly only look at what's int eh queue and deal with spam (which raymodn will get to soon)
    he's got some updates...
    ok, third, the team here approves all bans prior to them being given.
    we look at the evidence and make an assessment.
    mods cannot ban anyone on their own. every.
13:06    there have been many cases that mods have contacted us and asked about bans/warnings and I've said--nope not warranted.
    somtimes, it is.
    usually has to do witht he actual content and how many resis have reported it as inappropriate.
  Suspiria  Great tag team moderation
13:07  Kung Fu Marketer  what has been happening--is that there's been a lot of bickering back and forth between two resis that disrupts the topic discussed.
  Venus Petrov  good to know mods cannot ban without review
  Kung Fu Marketer  thanks suspipria.
    that stuff is just disruptive and cannot go on.
  Youri Ashton  hello all
  DogWomble Dollinger  hey youri
  Torben  hey Youri
  Kung Fu Marketer  that said, there were some threads that were in good fun and were questioned, but we let them go.
    fun is good.
    banter is good.
    flaming other resi's (even ones you may not agree with or like) is bad
13:08    ok, think i'm done.
  Tomkin Euler  scribbles down a new word, "resi"..
  Kung Fu Marketer  ok, questions?
  Venus Petrov  yes
  Kung Fu Marketer  unelss anyone else on the linden team wants to chime in...that is
    sure venus--go for it
  Venus Petrov  for goodwill sake would it be possible to forgive all but harassment and spam violations from the first week?
    it was a 'get used to it' week
    and many got profanity violations, for example
13:09  Kung Fu Marketer  hey, that's a good idea. yes, we can do that.
  Venus Petrov  great ty
  Lexie  I like it
  Suspiria  Too late for that isn't it?
  Kung Fu Marketer  i'll just let the mods know that they should disregard stuff from the first week.
  Venus Petrov  cool
  Mags Indigo  great
  Kung Fu Marketer  nope--we can make the decision right now and i just made it.
  Venus Petrov  i assume if there is a date attached, they would know
  Kung Fu Marketer  that is a fair poitn and i agree.
13:10  Venus Petrov  ok and I know that you have been tweaking the bleeper
  Mags Indigo  rubs shoulders with Amanda - wonders if she has any influence on the land team
  Kung Fu Marketer  ok, suspiria/cummere--unleash it.
    come on.
  Venus Petrov  but it is still somewhat annoying lol
  Lisa Fossett  Wait, Amanda...perhaps disregard is the wrong word? You want that content moderated if it's offensive...but you don't want bans/etc as a result...correct?
  Kung Fu Marketer  :)
  Cummere Mayo  okay i have four questions i want to post as a group is that okay?
  Suspiria  I won't say anything, I see your stance
  Kung Fu Marketer  well, we still have the record, but if it's up to a ban then the violations from first week wouldn't counte.
13:11    it's a good idea.
  Mags Indigo  yes it is
  Kung Fu Marketer  sure cummere
  Cummere Mayo  This is to all the lindens here: Is it ever okay for a linden to threaten to give out rl name, city, and place of employment of a customer?

Is it ever clear for a linden/mod to send a warning then to follow up with another email address referencing that warning and stating that if you report a person again there will be consequences? Is it ever okay for a linden/mod to use borderline or outright abusive language?

  Mags Indigo  shows some flexibility as people got used to the new system
  Arawn Graalrd  wonders if Tourettes might become an issue.
  Kung Fu Marketer  ok, cummere. good questions.
  DogWomble Dollinger  well as long as a bit of commonsense applies :) as in if it is a genuine bannable offence etc.
13:12  Kung Fu Marketer  first, it is never ok for a linden to discuss exposing personal information.
  Lexie  never!
  Kung Fu Marketer  that is clearly against our policy and if this is happening, then i need to be alerted immediately!
    your private info is private. period.
  Venus Petrov  or those in your employ, correct?
  Arawn Graalrd  If a mod gets abusive, they'd be users as much as any Linden, and reportable as such
  Kung Fu Marketer  if you feel a mod is abusive, then please also let me know.
  Suspiria  Alerts don;t work if emails don't get returned
13:13  Kung Fu Marketer  they have standard langauge that they use, and i would be surprised to see abusive language in their communication with you.
    but, i won't tolerate that from them--or from anyone.
    any other lindens want to join in here?
  tabibhob  HI
  Kung Fu Marketer  thinks i'm IMing too much. :)
  Torben  hi tabib :)
  Raymond Linden  agred on all your points Amanda
  Marianne McCann  welcome to Second Life, tabibhob
  Venus Petrov  so this is an example where discussing the moderation is ok, yes?
  Kung Fu Marketer  the bottom line is--you're right cummere.
  Lisa Fossett  Hi, Tabib...I have sent you a private message...look on your screen in the lower right.
  DogWomble Dollinger  well not wanting to cause an explosion, i'm sure with recent 'events' you guys will be taking that dsort of thign seriusly if ineed it is true?
  Kung Fu Marketer  it's unacceptable.
  tabibhob  HI
13:14  DogWomble Dollinger  wrt privacy issues?
  Lexie  yes I agree as well and have heard some of you mention fear of getting in trouble because you have these kinds of questions. Please ask them. Its ok.
  Kung Fu Marketer  YES dog.
  bob Iwashi  greetings and salutations
  Youri Ashton  i rather have the experience that either mole, linden or mod, it doesnt matter if abusive, rude, etc, they simply dont get punished at all
  Suspiria  I know what happens when you ask questions
  Cummere Mayo  thats my experince as well youri
  Youri Ashton  how does that translate to now and the furture?
  Kung Fu Marketer  you get answers, i assume.
13:15  Youri Ashton  sorry to say, it may sound not nice towards the lindens here, but a lot have the same question
  Suspiria  Nope I got punished
  Kung Fu Marketer  you're allowed to ask the mods questions--about moderation. you are not allowed to call them names or ause them tho.
    ok, youri--you're seeing nothign being done?
    when someone is out of line?
  Suspiria  Yep
  bob Iwashi  well, the one of you guys i had a aproblem with went last year anyways amanda
  Youri Ashton  amanda, it is not our language usage towards them, its them towards us ;)
  Suspiria  I sent examples, over 50
  Kung Fu Marketer  report the post.
  Slatan Dryke  greetings
13:16  Kung Fu Marketer  suspiria--i didn't see abuse there--i did read it.
    sorry, i disagree.
  Suspiria  When I reported the posts I got a mod letter threatening a ban
  Kung Fu Marketer  yes, that's their job.
  Marianne McCann  Hey Slatan
  Cummere Mayo  Ive seen three posts very polite on the forums in feedback where people said they didnt feel safe. those threads were pulled, the users warned for "harassment" and in one case a private im sent saying the poster was such a bitch
  Kung Fu Marketer  if you have violations, then you are in peril of a one week ban or more...
    you can't call the poster a bitch
13:17  Youri Ashton  lindens, moles and mods are also humans, so they could always make a mistake just like any of us. however out of experience this is not taken into account and actually punished where normal users do get punished, or even banned
  bob Iwashi  please, can we have a flameless meeting? nice and boring would be nice
  Mags Indigo  IMs can of course be 'tweaked' for sympathy - I've seen that a thousand times
  Suspiria  The problem is the warnings aren't fairly handed out
  Mags Indigo  not saying anyone here would do that of course
  Tiamat Bingyi  hi everybody (im using a chat based i have no idea wich avatar im wearing or if im in an inapropriate place. - sorry)
  Cummere Mayo  mags the screenshot is posted on slu
  Youri Ashton  it isnt flaming, its unfortunately the harsh truth
  Kung Fu Marketer  yes, warnings are fairly handed out. again, it's all based on resi's reporting content.
  Mags Indigo  don't go there
    why would I?
  Kung Fu Marketer  if the content is not reported, then we don't see it.
  Mags Indigo  and by god I've seen tweaked screenshots too
  Kung Fu Marketer  there's so much content out there--hundreds and thousands of posts to indiividually go through--impossibe.
13:18  Mags Indigo  esp when it comes to financial dealings
  Suspiria  So someone making a personal attack, naming you isn't against the CPG?
  bee Baroque  hi tiamat, you look fine, with hooves and horns :)
  Cummere Mayo  amanda then may i ask why threads where the user's said they just didn't feel safe are getting warned? thats kinda proving thier point isnt it?
  Kung Fu Marketer  yes it is. you cant call someoen a bitch in the paltform, period.
  Venus Petrov  not if they are responding directly to a post of yours
    using your name
  Kung Fu Marketer  there's a normal adjustment period. we had very little moderation going on in jive.
13:19  Suspiria  But they can make fun of my Russian heritage and to you it isn't worthy of a warning
  Kung Fu Marketer  a lot more moderation now. so, everyone's getting used to it.
    ok, susupira. that flag.
    let's take that offline. k?
    don't need to discus in large group
  Suspiria  grrr
  Cummere Mayo  happens to the irish too
    and to christians
  Kung Fu Marketer  and, btw--i'm russian too.
  Mags Indigo  grins - don't I know it
  Cummere Mayo  and conservatives
13:20  Mags Indigo  water off a ducks back as it were
  Cummere Mayo  those four groups its open season
  Kung Fu Marketer  ok, do most folks feel that i've answered their questions re: moderation?
  Suspiria  Yep with no repercussions
  Cummere Mayo  no amanda
  Youri Ashton  doesnt matter where you are from amanda, your still our sweet amanda ;)
  Kung Fu Marketer  :) awwwe.
  Venus Petrov  ok about the language bleeper, you are tweaking it...but can it recognize terms used in a junior biology text as alright to print?
  Mags Indigo  to be honest I've seen most groups get a teasing that might have stepped a bit too far from time to time
  Kung Fu Marketer  blushes
  Tiamat Bingyi  :)
  Youri Ashton  pets amanda ^_^
13:21  Kung Fu Marketer  ok, think that raymond can talk to language stuff.
  Marianne McCann  I know that feeling, Mags
  DogWomble Dollinger  do i need to get the flame suit ready amanda?
  bee Baroque  peewee \o :)
  Cummere Mayo  i want to know why its okay for mods to rip down threads where people politely said in the forum feedback they dont feel safe becuase of the mods?
  Mags Indigo  some people are a bit more sensitive than others and I also find it can depend on who makes the remarks
  Youri Ashton  hey peewee, its about time you showed up :p hehe
  Mags Indigo  if there's 'history' it can seem worse
  Marianne McCann  blows a raspberry.
  Kung Fu Marketer  cummere--you can't flame mods--part of our community platform guidelines.
  Peewee Musytari  yay hey hey Bee :)
  Cummere Mayo  thats not flaming the mods
  Suspiria  It's not about sensitivity, it's about repeated violation nothing is done about
  Kung Fu Marketer  ok, raymond--go for it re: language blacklist.
  Peewee Musytari  hi all sorry I`m late
  Cummere Mayo  thats providing feedback
  Kung Fu Marketer  np peewee. welcome.
  Youri Ashton  sithdown hon :)
  Raymond Linden  Yeah, we can tweak the language smut filter.
13:22  Venus Petrov  so terms like nipple and penis are ok?
  Lord of Dee  The language filter is alarming
  Mags Indigo  violation can be in the eyes of the person seeing it
  Lexie  It is using a standard "list" but we can review it
  Venus Petrov  dyke?
  Mags Indigo  1 person can see violation - 100 others see nothing wrong
  Lord of Dee  Dick Van Dyke is a nightmare
  Suspiria  @Mags there is no standardization
  Venus Petrov  laughs
  Mags Indigo  you talking to me Venus??
  Venus Petrov  poor him
13:23  Mags Indigo  :p
  Jetpack Backpack  Please type 'X help' for more help with commands
  Raymond Linden  yes, if there are words in question, please let me know. PM me
  Tomkin Euler  tries to visualise a typical use case where those words would be useful..
  Venus Petrov  of course, when one wishes to discuss adult items that are sold in SL
  Mags Indigo  and to be honest it's also about normal language
    I'm assuming everyone with access to the forum is 16+
  Venus Petrov  they should be
  Kung Fu Marketer  and there are cases where we had banned words that aren't banned.
  Marianne McCann  Blacklists of language are always a nightmare. I recall that from working on AOl more years ago than I care to admit
  Kung Fu Marketer  example is damn.
  DogWomble Dollinger  well one would hope so mags :)
13:24  Kung Fu Marketer  not really a bad word. that's off hte list now, right raymond?
  Mags Indigo  'protecting' them from words such as lesbian, dyke and some other common usage words seems a bit... unreal
  Marianne McCann  (When higher ups got the idea that "breat" was a good word to blacklist)
  Kung Fu Marketer  and that was based on resi feedback.
  Marianne McCann  "breast*"
  Venus Petrov  in that spirit, i would once again like to request a Mature subforum where things like sexual orientation can be discusssed, adult consumer items sold in SL..etc
  DogWomble Dollinger  i'll second that venus
  Cummere Mayo  i wouldnt even mind breast if breasted wasnt also cut
  Mags Indigo  lots of 16-18 years olds are gay
13:25    bless them
  Kung Fu Marketer  venus, there's a private forum for adult merchants/business ownes.
  Tomkin Euler  I hought there was one.. adult..
  Marianne McCann  Cummere - I'm sure the Relay For Life folks would have a bit to say about it
  Venus Petrov  but not for residents
  Lord of Dee  It's like something out the 1950's this language filter, where did you get it from?
  DogWomble Dollinger  keeping it "PG" in a way is sensible in the sense that it's "web viewable", but at the same time is a bit restrictive when it comes to certain topics
  Cummere Mayo  and it was ammusing last week that my user name was on the blacklist
  Venus Petrov  i am asking for one for residents please
  Kung Fu Marketer  i like the idea of an LBGT community form, but it's tough....
  Suspiria  Everyday language isn't G
  Mags Indigo  yeah - trying to find it though is a nightmare
  Marianne McCann  I'm sure that oMosely Sperber will bring up the sculpted birds he sells, too
  Mags Indigo  Walt Disney?
  Kung Fu Marketer  let us pow-wow on that one k, venus?
  DogWomble Dollinger  hahaha marianne
  Mags Indigo  bites her tongue
  Cummere Mayo  everyday language is moderate
  Suspiria  I see
  Venus Petrov  sure
13:26  DogWomble Dollinger  i've seen tha sign ... "these birds are not adult content"
  Marianne McCann  It's just... a minefield, blacklists
  Lord of Dee  Ha didn't think to see if we could talk about Moseley's products
  Suspiria  Now I get it
  Venus Petrov  if we can buy the stuff in SL, we should be able to discuss it
  Marianne McCann  Ya, DogWomble. He had his marketplace stuff labeled adult recently, too
  Venus Petrov  and the gay community lives here, too
  Marianne McCann  But it's also a good example
  DogWomble Dollinger  whispers: hmmmm, bit of a literal usage then?
  Suspiria  Silenced
  Kung Fu Marketer  it's a great idea--but let us pow-wow on it our side, k?
  Cummere Mayo  dyke maybe shouldnt be allowed but gay, lesbian, bisexual?
  Kung Fu Marketer  let's pick it up next week when we on the linden side can discuss.
13:27  Venus Petrov  ok good ty
  Mags Indigo  why not dyke?
  Cummere Mayo  that some places is still an insult
  Mags Indigo  <-- old dyke and proud to be thank you
  Lord of Dee  So the little boy who put his finger in a dyke is no longer general? This is silly
  Kung Fu Marketer  :)
  Mags Indigo  only if you allow it to be
  Arawn Graalrd  Communty Standareds inword won't allow us to search for the inventor of Ivory Soap
  Cummere Mayo  mags some lesbians really do hate the word. others lvoe it... but eh
  Marianne McCann  Dyke" is sometimes used as a reclaimed term within their community e.g. the "Dyke March"
  Youri Ashton  lol, okay, i must have missed something, why we talking about dykes now?
  Kung Fu Marketer  ok, moving along the agenda. :)
  Tiamat Bingyi  :)
13:28  Kung Fu Marketer  ok, next is clarification re: third-party sites.
  Mags Indigo  we're just lucky I guess Dog
  Lexie  (good feedback on that, ty)
  DogWomble Dollinger  well i can kidna see one problem .... there's about a billion words that could cause this sorta debate
  Mags Indigo  ack sorry Youri
  Kung Fu Marketer  often it's associted with advertising--that's the thinking behind it.
  Mags Indigo  too many names for slow eyes
  Kung Fu Marketer  but, raymodn and lexie should chime in too
  Venus Petrov  have there been any numbers run on forum usage since the rollout compared to the former GD?
  Youri Ashton  lol, np mags :)
  Lord of Dee  There are some clearly obvious adult words, that's where the filters should stop.
  Second Life  Items successfully shared.
13:29  Lexie  Venus, we will know more after a full month
  Mags Indigo  I think there's a few too many sub forums
  Kung Fu Marketer  ok, answered that one.
  Mags Indigo  it makes the whole thing too disjointed
  Kung Fu Marketer  ok, premium members consiage type support panel.
  Mags Indigo  everyone in their own little world
  Venus Petrov  ok will they be published? or shared here or somewhere?
  Kung Fu Marketer  that's a good idea...interesting.
    not sure if it's do-able.
  Cummere Mayo  why not?
  Lexie  Venus, Not sure actually! I will find out
  Venus Petrov  thank you
13:30  Kung Fu Marketer  raymond, don't premium members still have live chat in the support portal? not sure...
  bob Iwashi  yes we do
  Cummere Mayo  we do ... but its burried
  Raymond Linden  yes
  bob Iwashi  but we get stuck withthe couts
  Cummere Mayo  and support thinks our page looks like consierge
  DogWomble Dollinger  amanda i've use live chat , but it's not easy to find
  Kung Fu Marketer  :)
  Mags Indigo  yes I was on it today
  Lisa Fossett  Support links are much harder to find now
  bob Iwashi  who are only marginally better than the ontynes were
  Cummere Mayo  and so do allot of lindens
  Mags Indigo  they said 'no'
  Kung Fu Marketer  yeah, that's an issue. we need to redo that page.
  Mags Indigo  feels aggrieved
  bob Iwashi  me too mags
  Youri Ashton  cummere, a lot of lindens are actually fired, there are not that many left ;)
  Kung Fu Marketer  ok, so lexie is right--let's look into it and leave it on the agenda for next week. we should have a better understanding of what's do-able.
13:31  Cummere Mayo  and hoenstly paying for for primium memberships i expect top level access to live and tickets
  bob Iwashi  if i wanted to speak to a 3rd parry company i;d call them directly
    isntead of them, reading me an obviously scripted answer
  Kung Fu Marketer  well, keep inmind that there are only 220 of us lindens.
  bob Iwashi  that's even less use than before
  Kung Fu Marketer  we're a pretty small company and there are hundreds of thousands of you.
13:32  Venus Petrov  that is not a complaint, i take it..smiles
  Youri Ashton  i rather see that you get more L$ for your RL money
  Cummere Mayo  i meant allot of lindens think that the premium level support page has live and tickets on the top level page ><
  bob Iwashi  a prety small company that does NOT lsiten to it;s customers amanda
  Tiamat Bingyi  WOW.. just 220 Lindens? ehhe
  Cummere Mayo  to clarify
  draconis.neurocam  and around 18 or so short looking at the list you are hiring for
  Kung Fu Marketer  yep, jsut 220
  DogWomble Dollinger  well i've dealt with two of them via live chat ... one was excellent and got it right, i knda wish i had the lgos from the other one because they'd asked me to AR a ghost prim
  Qie  Somebody needs to updated ...."Headquartered in San Francisco, Linden Lab has more than 250 employees. "
  Tiamat Bingyi  i agree with Bob
  Suspiria  It disciplines them fast enough
  Kung Fu Marketer  yes, actually, qie. i've rewritten that site and it's being built now.
  Lexie  We are here listening now bob ㋡
  Kung Fu Marketer  hoping to get a new up soon.
  bob Iwashi  how the heck can it take 45 minutes to reqwuest a mainland region restart for free a ghost?
  Youri Ashton  i pay 50 euro for just (about) 14000L$, which is basically not going to happen since i only have 40 euro a week, and im sure a lot more have that problem
  Peewee Musytari  talking of the help it possible to add a category to the popular help isssues for non-english speakers, directing them to the non-english fourms as there is no non-english help pages least for some basic issues they could get peer to peer support?
  Qie  Thanks Amanda.
13:33  bob Iwashi  when it was lidnen support, 5 minutes!
  Kung Fu Marketer  peewee--briliant idea.
    yes--i'll take that action item.
  bob Iwashi  now you have to explain 5 ruddy times to the scouts how to use a pc let alone your problem"
  Youri Ashton  basically makes it impossible for those that are not rich at all
  Tiamat Bingyi  yeah..that would be great
  Raymond Linden  Peewee - yes, something we are aware of
  Rand  peewee - there are *some* non-English Knowledge Base articles
  Cummere Mayo  Rand... some of them are even accurate
13:34  bob Iwashi  sorry, but that's bad customer service
  Cummere Mayo  and yeah
  Qie  (btw, Peewee, after this meeting, the Community Translation user group is scheduled to meet for the first time, in case it would be of interest.)
  Peewee Musytari  someone posted the vast drop in usage on the non -english forums and questions...we seem to have lost the germans I noticed....and they suggested maybe they can`t them
  Rand  Hopefully, more with help of the community translation project
  Cummere Mayo  yesterday i had to explain that a region being down is not a viewer issue to a scout
  Youri Ashton  hey tech
  Tiamat Bingyi  yes... i miss the TC work.. :)
  Techwolf Lupindo  Hi all
13:35  Mags Indigo  waves at Tech
  Cummere Mayo  can we please sometime have even a two time usergroup to talk about issues with scouts doing support?
  Youri Ashton  the first community translator OH is right after this OH
  Kung Fu Marketer  ok, the last item on the formal agenda is usage numbers....
  Youri Ashton  well, for those within the group :p
  Mags Indigo  down I would imagine
  Kung Fu Marketer  raymond, anything you care to share?
  Mags Indigo  though maybe it justseems that way due to the lack of bitchfests and flame wars
  Kung Fu Marketer  lexie?
  Mags Indigo  and I guess spam doesn't count
  Youri Ashton  2bad lexie isn't with us this year :(
13:36  Raymond Linden  In terms of usage or general updates?
  Venus Petrov  well and content...real discussions have dropped
  Peewee Musytari  usage seems way down for answers section
  Lexie  We will have a better idea on usage numbers after a solid month
  DogWomble Dollinger  mags i'd be interested to see them, although given what seem to be a fair share of dramas, i'd take them with a grain of salt until things are worked out
  Venus Petrov  hummm wonders if that is too late lol
  Suspiria  Ossian has usage numbers
  Raymond Linden  Yeah, in a week or two we will have a good set of data
  Cummere Mayo  well when you get warned for linking someone to an outside site with a howto guide people dont want to answer
  bob Iwashi  amanda, may i make a suggestion/request?
  Kung Fu Marketer  sure bob
13:37  Peewee Musytari  and a lot more posting a question and never coming back...I don`t know if they can`t find their question, or how to repost on it maybe.....are emails of answers off by default now?
  Lexie  Yes Peewee
  Cummere Mayo  they are peewee
  Lisa Fossett  yes, emails are off by default
  bob Iwashi  please, and i appreciate it may not be you or your colelagues here, but could you ask whomever it is, that deals with support, to maybew consider an OH or two to address some of our concernes ref the support, or perceived lack of it?
  Cummere Mayo  which is stupid
13:38  Youri Ashton  no tech, thats fake Jon Linden, its placed by Jeremy because we all missed the guy around some time ago :p
  Lord of Dee  Emails should be off by default. Explaining how to put those options on should be clearly stated though.
  Raymond Linden  We are lookng into making the email box checked by default when posting
  Cummere Mayo  ty raymond
  Kung Fu Marketer  raymond/rand, do you want to take bob's suggestion?
  Lord of Dee  Emails on by defaulty is an awful practice
  Mags Indigo  agrees with ciaran
13:39  Kung Fu Marketer  we don't have a user group for support. but, i can say that we've worked through almost all of the backlog and the resposne times should be getting much better.
  Venus Petrov  same
  draconis.neurocam  in that vein there really should be a search usergroup as well
  Peewee Musytari  its a good thing for someone posting a least we know they got their answer
  bob Iwashi  it's not amanda, believe me
    it's getting worse
  Lexie  agreed Peewee
  Qie  On the topic of usage numbers: I wonder if it's a conscious decision not to link blog posts to discussions in the forums, as there were before. If Rodvik has a good blog post here soon, a link to a forums discussion could boost participation, and maybe some folks would stick around. (I don't really see the point of linking "View Article Reactions" to technorati, effectively demonstrating that nobody in the industry is talking about the SL blog)
  Kung Fu Marketer  kk, it's one of rod's top priorities. :)
  bob Iwashi  we (the long time users) are havign to explain to the scouts etc how stuff works
  Raymond Linden  bob - I can bring this up with Support
  Lisa Fossett  butts in her experence...her one hanging ticket has not had an update for almost a month now.
  Cummere Mayo  response times are horrible... better but horrible... the responses themselves... are a joke
  Peewee Musytari  we have posts and then lots of suggestions and we have no idea whats going on & they don`t get marked as answered
13:40  Cummere Mayo  actual conversation ive had more then once
  bob Iwashi  it's just not acceptable to be patronised by somebody when i've already done the ruddy groundwork for them
  Lord of Dee  They should make that choice, defaults like email messages should always be opt in
  Cummere Mayo  can you please restart this mainland region? "regions can only be restarted by thier owner"
  Marianne McCann  Ugh.... been there, done that Cummere
  DogWomble Dollinger  i've had the same thing cummere
13:41    particularly annoying after i spent 20 minutes explaining to them what a ghost prim was
  bob Iwashi  i was ghsoted 2 weeks ago, tried the usual suggestions, so i went to live chat on my prem acc, explained FOUR times the issue, i'd alrweady delted my cache manually, took 45 minutes to get a restart! and 3 different scouts had no clue whatsoever!
  Marianne McCann  "Well, the owner is Linden Lab, so I'm taking tothe estate owner right now"
  Mags Indigo  guys - this isn't the 'support meeting'
  Marianne McCann  Sorry....
  Lisa Fossett  Regards the email...I think the decision should be based on the new user. Those of us who know how to navigate the forums can turn off emails. Yeah, it might be an extra step, but think of the newbie who doesn't know how to find his topic again.
  Mags Indigo  much though I wish it were
  Kung Fu Marketer  yeah guys--we can't really address support issues her.
  Lexie  +1 Lisa
  bob Iwashi  i agree Mags, but all we'd like is trhe relevant Linden to actually lsiten to us isntead of half answers
  Raymond Linden  Hey all - if we can focus back on the community site. I have some updates
  Lexie  Updates!
  Kung Fu Marketer  woot
  Youri Ashton  we can, wouldnt be usefull since there wont be answers :p
13:42  Cummere Mayo  exactly lisa
  DogWomble Dollinger  i like updates!
  Kung Fu Marketer  go for it raymond
  Marianne McCann  Updates +1
  Raymond Linden  ok, where to start!
  Tiamat Bingyi  updates? :D weeee
  Lord of Dee  Plain issue here, email on by default is bad practice, there were loads of complaints about this when we had Jive.
  Arawn Graalrd  makes note: Support is unspeakable. I'm glad I never bother them
  Peewee Musytari  yay raymond...did you get rid of "comments"? hehe
  Raymond Linden  So, we are currently working on getting the Reply to post work completed
  Torben  yay for that
13:43  Raymond Linden  It is currently in development, so I am hoping it will be completed by next meeting
    Spam . .. .
  Techwolf Lupindo  munches on the spam
  Lisa Fossett  cure for the nuisance email: put the instructions on how to turn it off in the email signature.
  Raymond Linden  So, we made quite a bit of adjustments on the back end and stopped quite a bit of it. But, there is still spam getting through.
13:44    We are aware and working through it
  Lexie  We will beat the spam!
  Lisa Fossett  yay!
  Marianne McCann  That seats taken, davidsp
  Raymond Linden  Image spam is now an issue
  Mags Indigo  yes - wasted does his best - it's almost admirable how dedicated he is
  DogWomble Dollinger  beats the spam with a stick
  Kung Fu Marketer  go dog
  Lord of Dee  Just put how to turn replies on via email in the forum.
  mudbug Cooperstone  only good spam comes in a can lol
  Youri Ashton  serves lexie a plate with spam. enjoy your dinner ma'am ;) hehe
  Tiamat Bingyi  hehehe
  Marianne McCann  Mags - I sorta like him. It's nonsensical, but still...
  Kung Fu Marketer  and even that is questionable.
  Lexie  haha Youri
  Raymond Linden  We have added/modified some of the sub-forums
  Youri Ashton  ^_~
13:45  Raymond Linden  Also, working on the logon issue - the one where when you logon you are taken to the top level Blog page
  Mags Indigo  nods at Marianne - but sometimes he can be downright nasty and abusive - MPD maybe
  Venus Petrov  wrt subforums, will there be a review say in six months to see what are active ones and the less or non-active ones subsumed into others?
  Raymond Linden  That work is being scoped at the moment
  Marianne McCann  Agreed, Mags. I saw what he did on SC MkII
  Raymond Linden  I am also working on a list of UI updates as well
13:46  Techwolf Lupindo  One comment i've seen posted/spoken somewhere: The general topic is gone from the forums, discussions has drop a bit due to all the new splinter groups.
  Tiamat Bingyi  oh?
  Marianne McCann  Oh ya. Will be nice to not always be hitting the blog page every hour or so
  Raymond Linden  Venus - sure, we can review
  Lexie  Makes sense
  Venus Petrov  thank you
13:47    i can see a day when you have to scroll pages of subforums
    who wants that?
  Raymond Linden  That is really all I have right now in terms of updates.
  Youri Ashton  its not just the forums techwolf, its office hours as well, a lot of oh's dissapeared and most of the ones that are there are hard to find out where, how, etc
  Venus Petrov  I would be happy if Mature could be in OffTopic, actually
13:48  Peewee Musytari  was there any progress on getting new posts to bump threads?
  Cummere Mayo  I dont mind lots of subforums as long as they are collected into a rather small set of main forums so that its at most 3 clicks to get where I want
  Raymond Linden  Peewee - not sure I understand?
  bob Iwashi  well, tiem to run, rl calls
  Youri Ashton  LL should invest in a good page that activly shows what is where, how late etc and actually pin it to the MAIN PAGE of sl wiki, instead of all hidden
  Peewee Musytari  so that new posts bump the thread back to top of topic list
  bob Iwashi  in my own rl job of providing support to people.............
13:49  Cummere Mayo  Raymond, standard for most forums is that threads with new posts are listed first....
    that isnt happening
  Youri Ashton  and then of course the mess it shows up in, its really not handy to read at all
  Lexie  You want sorted by latest post right?
  Cummere Mayo  yes
13:50  Raymond Linden  Is that the issue where Oh - the other thing brought up in the last meeting . . .
  Cummere Mayo  yeps
    its still sorting by creation
  Raymond Linden  was regarding the Latest Post showing in the widget was not the most recent post
  Liisa Runo  yes, everyone want that, every other forum always been working like that
  Rand  Youri: the User Groups page is linked from wiki Main Page
  Youri Ashton  i broughed it up earlier yeah
  Rand  Do you find that hard to use?
  Raymond Linden  We are working on fixing that
13:51  Peewee Musytari  questions stay forever in the order they are posted, so you get new posts on page 5 of the topic list when something isn`t solved fast enough and the only option is to keep getting everything sent to email or searching old pages for new stuff
  Lexie  We know its a hot topic for you
  draconis.neurocam  theres usergroups that exist that still are not listed there, ie kelly's
  Rand  draconis - thx for letting me know... .I will fix that
13:52    UG leaders are *supposed* to update that page!
  Cummere Mayo  allot fo them need updated with the new po too
  Raymond Linden  These are all great ideas/suggestions. Some of the issues we can fix with some quick tweaks. Others are core platform changes which are much harder to update
  Cummere Mayo  since like q and a few others left
  Youri Ashton  rand: the page is indeed there, known to many, but it is more hidden away then you think. and besides that, its a mess to find out about things. I suggest making it in a calendar type page, so people can actually see what hour and what day holds what OH. instead of the current mess
  Marianne McCann  Needta run, have fun, all!
  Rand  Youri: the Google Calendar does that...
13:53  Torben  bye bye Marianne
  Lord of Dee  Bye mari
  Tiamat Bingyi  bye marianne
  Rand  It is embedded in the page...
  Marianne McCann  Bye Bye!!
  Mags Indigo  tc Mari
  Youri Ashton  besides that, the oh hud is pretty upset as well due to the odd behavior of the sl wiki page
  draconis.neurocam  in regards to the google calendar, you have to sign in to google to see all of the events
  Tiamat Bingyi  havent checked sl wiki lately
  Rand  And you can sort the table by any column you wish
  draconis.neurocam  some are not listed there if you are not
  DogWomble Dollinger  rand: if i get a chance i'll see if i can get something calendarish wrking as well
  Rand  draconis - i did not know that...i thik we should be able to address that... (?)
13:54    DogWomble - thx
  Cummere Mayo  one thing that would help
  Rand  I am totally open to improving the usability of that page!
  Youri Ashton  rand: I think you dont understand what i try to tell. I think you should download and try out Monzilla Sunbird. this shows a bit of what i mean. using that idea you can make it a lot easier to read :)
  Cummere Mayo  get the usergroups to have consistant formatting across the entries
13:55    it would help with sorting issues and stuff
  Rand  Youri: lets talk about it offline
  Youri Ashton  kk rand
  Cummere Mayo  and as said before you have some still listed as being owned by people no longer at LL
  Kung Fu Marketer  right.
    like q. good point.
  Rand  ok we will address that... easy enough
    who is handling Q's UG now?
13:56  Cummere Mayo  oz
  Kung Fu Marketer  oz
  Youri Ashton  and for that matter, that setup idea hs a lot more great assets that can be used. so, sure needs to get talked over :)
  Cummere Mayo  one is merov
    well one of them is oz
  Youri Ashton  Oz and Merov basically taking over such hours
  Cummere Mayo  ughh hurray for out of order posting
  Torben  it´s the same with JIRA projects by the way
  Tiamat Bingyi  i gotta go... ill miss CT meeting too.. if anybody could save the log (of CT meeting) i would love to have it...
  Rand  Ok i fixed that just now :-)
  Cummere Mayo  ty rand
  Tiamat Bingyi  thanks for everything and bye =)
  Rand  yw
13:57  Mags Indigo  CT?
  Kung Fu Marketer  bye all.
  Rand  bye
  Torben  Tiamat, I´ll post a transcript of CT
  Lexie  Bye for now and thanks!!
  Kung Fu Marketer  rand, you get the transcript?
  Rand  yes amanda, i got it
  Tiamat Bingyi  ty torben
  Kung Fu Marketer  fab.
  Suspiria  New blog post on the way
  Kung Fu Marketer  thanks all. another great session.
  Tiamat Bingyi  bye bye
  Kung Fu Marketer  suspiria--i'll look forward to it.
  DogWomble Dollinger  not a problem amanda :)
  Torben  bye all
  Cummere Mayo  ild like to say that aside from the support page for premiums, and a few bugs, the tech side of things is pretty good imo
  Venus Petrov  thanks Amanda, Lexie, Jeremy etc
  Mags Indigo  thanks various Lindens
  Kung Fu Marketer  thanks cummere. good to hear.
  Cummere Mayo  but with the mod mess, youre not gonna see me use it
  Youri Ashton  oh yeah rand, together with that suggestion for the agenda, it might be good to have a new OH hud that actually reads updates as well
  Torben  so, where is localization central again=
  Kung Fu Marketer  thanks all--we really appreciate yout aking the time to share thoughts.
13:58    lots of great ideas...
  Venus Petrov  knows who was working on her blog during the meeting lol
  Rand  Thanks all... cya next week
  Youri Ashton  think we better talk another time about that, may take a lot of time
  Raymond Linden  Later!