Difference between revisions of "Open Development User Group/Archive/2011-05-04"
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Log '/Users/oz/SecondLife/Logs/oz_linden/chat.txt' not found; trying '/Users/oz/SecondLife/Logs/oz_linden/chat-2011-05-04.txt' | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | ||
| <span id='13:30'>13:30</span> | | <span id='13:30'>13:30</span> | ||
Line 398: | Line 399: | ||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/kadah.coba caps router chum] | | style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/kadah.coba caps router chum] | ||
| I couldnt find one | | I couldnt find one | ||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| <span id='13:57'>13:57</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"| | |||
| And it would be nice if the caps problems were fixed, I havent been able to do anything on SL for 2 weeks | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| <span id='14:00'>14:00</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/oz.linden Oz Linden] | |||
| I don't know anything about that, but it doesn't look good.... | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/kadah.coba caps router chum] | |||
| Its not, I can't do anything on v2 till its fixed ;~; | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| <span id='14:01'>14:01</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/boroondas.gupte বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে] | |||
| re openID issues: maybe WEB-2771 should be re-opened? | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|''Office Orb'' | |||
| http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-2771 | |||
[https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-2771 WEB-2771] Following a direct link to a JIRA issues shows the system dashboard instead on the first try | [https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-2771 WEB-2771] Following a direct link to a JIRA issues shows the system dashboard instead on the first try | ||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| <span id='14:02'>14:02</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/oz.linden Oz Linden] | |||
| it's not that simple | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/kadah.coba caps router chum] | |||
| !! | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/techwolf.lupindo Techwolf Lupindo] | |||
| That one breaks my "jira <search>" trick in firefox. | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/kadah.coba caps router chum] | |||
| THat looks like the one | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/oz.linden Oz Linden] | |||
| that works fine - firefox is doing something other than just repeating the request when it restores the session | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| <span id='14:03'>14:03</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/kadah.coba caps router chum] | |||
| When i log in, it always redirects me to the dashboard, everytime | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/oz.linden Oz Linden] | |||
| I follow jira links all day, and often (too often) have to log in, and I get there fine | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/kadah.coba caps router chum] | |||
| Unless I'm logged in already, which is most of the time | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| <span id='14:04'>14:04</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/boroondas.gupte বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে] | |||
| I think the problem is when jira thinks you are not (anymore) logged in, but the central login page thinks you are logged in and redirects you back to jira without asking for credentials. | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/oz.linden Oz Linden] | |||
| I don't think I've seen that, but I may be accessing things differently | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| <span id='14:05'>14:05</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/boroondas.gupte বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে] | |||
| If I have to log in manually, I get redirected correctly, but if the login page redirects me back without asking me, I end up on the dashboard. | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| <span id='14:08'>14:08</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"| | |||
| Why did the transcription stop at [13:56]? I thought this UG is now till 14:30, isn't it? | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/oz.linden Oz Linden] | |||
| it does... I set the timer wrong and stopped it | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/boroondas.gupte বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে] | |||
| ah | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| <span id='14:09'>14:09</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/oz.linden Oz Linden] | |||
| I'll have to fix the timestamp by hand when I create my transcript (laziness fail) | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"| | |||
| I'll have to enhance that script... the current Orb assumes meetings end on the hour.... | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| <span id='14:10'>14:10</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/teddy.zepp teddy Zepp] | |||
| when writing a complier is they anyway of using varibles which will pick up on programs bugs so as to shorten the testing methodolgy? | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/boroondas.gupte বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে] | |||
| didn't you want to make your script public some time ago, so that we could help you tweak it? | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| <span id='14:11'>14:11</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/teddy.zepp teddy Zepp] | |||
| seems a lot of time is spent in this processes of translating the software program | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| <span id='14:12'>14:12</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/boroondas.gupte বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে] | |||
| "complier"? do you mean "compiler"? | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"| | |||
| we don't write our compilers ourselfs ... | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| <span id='14:13'>14:13</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"| | |||
| but maybe you're looking for something like assertions or unit tests? | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"| | |||
| Though, while those help catch mistakes, they make compiletime longer, not shorter. | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| <span id='14:14'>14:14</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/oz.linden Oz Linden] | |||
| well... there are languages that are closer to "if it compiles then it will run" than C++ | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/boroondas.gupte বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে] | |||
| indeed | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/oz.linden Oz Linden] | |||
| but there's no way to make any language foolproof - we fools are way to inventive | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| <span id='14:15'>14:15</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/boroondas.gupte বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে] | |||
| :-P | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/teddy.zepp teddy Zepp] | |||
| ahhh | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"| | |||
| thank you Boroondas | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/boroondas.gupte বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে] | |||
| you're welcome :-) | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/cron.stardust Cron Stardust] | |||
| C++ isn't a pretty language, but it's what the industry is stuck with until something replaces it (D is trying...) :P | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| <span id='14:16'>14:16</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/teddy.zepp teddy Zepp] | |||
| using C++ how much leak on resourse is there | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/oz.linden Oz Linden] | |||
| There are lots of ways to write C++ to facilitate the ability to write good small unit tests, and doing that can greatly improve code correctness. | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/teddy.zepp teddy Zepp] | |||
| ? | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/oz.linden Oz Linden] | |||
| Alas, there are few examples of those class designs in the viewer code | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| <span id='14:17'>14:17</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"| | |||
| C++ is notoriously easy to leak things in | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| <span id='14:18'>14:18</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/boroondas.gupte বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে] | |||
| One could say, memory leaking is the default modus operandi of C++ :-P | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/teddy.zepp teddy Zepp] | |||
| yes | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"| | |||
| happens to me many times | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| <span id='14:19'>14:19</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/cron.stardust Cron Stardust] | |||
| If the existing client was converted into another language, how open would LL be to switching to it? Or is such an idea too soon? | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/oz.linden Oz Linden] | |||
| I created an issue just recently in hopes that someone might refactor some code to make it testable: STORM-1178 | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|''Office Orb'' | |||
| http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1178 | |||
[https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1178 STORM-1178] Develop tests for GPU table changes | [https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1178 STORM-1178] Develop tests for GPU table changes | ||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| <span id='14:20'>14:20</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/oz.linden Oz Linden] | |||
| Converted how? | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/cron.stardust Cron Stardust] | |||
| those parts that would be roughly the same transferrred over and other parts re-written, all using unit tests, etc. | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/oz.linden Oz Linden] | |||
| That would be a monumental undertaking | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| <span id='14:21'>14:21</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/techwolf.lupindo Techwolf Lupindo] | |||
| The Linux kernel is in english for a good reson. There is no good way to translate error messages and the auto-transator can have bugs in it also. | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/cron.stardust Cron Stardust] | |||
| The language would have to be cross-platform and support existing (or replacement) dependencies of course. | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/oz.linden Oz Linden] | |||
| Realistically, if someone wants to incrementally improve the code (as in that issue), that's more than welcome | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| <span id='14:22'>14:22</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/teddy.zepp teddy Zepp] | |||
| wouldn't it be an ideal world for certian parts of the code to be hands off | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"| | |||
| or is it pen for all develpoment and testing ? | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/oz.linden Oz Linden] | |||
| meaning what? that we don't improve it? | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/teddy.zepp teddy Zepp] | |||
| open | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| <span id='14:23'>14:23</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/oz.linden Oz Linden] | |||
| I don't think that we consider anything "hands off" in general.... but proving compatibility for some things might be pretty challenging | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/nielarcher Ima Mechanique] | |||
| teddy, no need for hands off. If LL don't like a patch, they just decline to accept it | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| <span id='14:24'>14:24</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/teddy.zepp teddy Zepp] | |||
| ahhh | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"| | |||
| good point | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"| | |||
| I like to start from the ground u just didn't know how much would be allowed | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"| | |||
| thank you | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| <span id='14:25'>14:25</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"| | |||
| up | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/boroondas.gupte বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে] | |||
| We only change code if we have a reason to do so. But there might be some parts of the code that don't get changed (maybe although they /should/ get changed), because there's no one left who understands that code enough. | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/teddy.zepp teddy Zepp] | |||
| yes, this appens a lot in the programmers world | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/oz.linden Oz Linden] | |||
| happens on all successful software projects, in my experience | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| <span id='14:26'>14:26</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/teddy.zepp teddy Zepp] | |||
| yes | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/boroondas.gupte বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে] | |||
| What do you want to start from ground up? Do you want to write a new second life client from scratch? | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/cron.stardust Cron Stardust] | |||
| AS an aside, I don't remember: is C++ object-code compatible with C? (such that you could compile a section of C++ code and then link it into a C program) | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/teddy.zepp teddy Zepp] | |||
| so at this point what specific areas are we looking on developing or improving ? | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| <span id='14:27'>14:27</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/oz.linden Oz Linden] | |||
| yes, but you have to declare the C symbols differently | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| <span id='14:28'>14:28</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/boroondas.gupte বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে] | |||
| yes and no. C has a flat namespace, so C++ names get mangled. I don't remember whether the mangling rules are implementation dependent or whether you might rely on them. | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| <span id='14:29'>14:29</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/cron.stardust Cron Stardust] | |||
| ok: the reason I was asking is that D is object-code compatible with C, and I was wondering if we could do a slow language transition of the source code... But many assumptions would have to be tested before that could even start. | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/oz.linden Oz Linden] | |||
| /me's mind boggles | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| <span id='14:30'>14:30</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/cron.stardust Cron Stardust] | |||
| hehe, pipe dream, I know... | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/tankmaster.finesmith Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks] | |||
| why would you want to? :P | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/oz.linden Oz Linden] | |||
| some of my best dreams.... never mind | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/techwolf.lupindo Techwolf Lupindo] | |||
| D hasn't reached production level yet. | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/cron.stardust Cron Stardust] | |||
| D has a host of feature (not the least of which is option garbage collection) that could make the viewer much more stable. | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| <span id='14:31'>14:31</span> | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/techwolf.lupindo Techwolf Lupindo] | |||
| In fact, it still a changeing . | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/oz.linden Oz Linden] | |||
| I've got to go meet with someone about getting a build farm up for contributors.... | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/boroondas.gupte বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে] | |||
| \o/ | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/oz.linden Oz Linden] | |||
| so thank you all for coming | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/teddy.zepp teddy Zepp] | |||
| thank you | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/kadah.coba caps router chum] | |||
| Thanks Oz | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/teddy.zepp teddy Zepp] | |||
| Oz | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/techwolf.lupindo Techwolf Lupindo] | |||
| garbage collection impact performace. | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/opensource.obscure oobscure] | |||
| thank you Oz | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"| | |||
| have a nice day everybody | |||
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | |||
| | |||
| style="white-space:nowrap;"|[http://my.secondlife.com/tankmaster.finesmith Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks] | |||
| tc Oz | |||
|} | |} |
Revision as of 09:58, 16 May 2011
Log '/Users/oz/SecondLife/Logs/oz_linden/chat.txt' not found; trying '/Users/oz/SecondLife/Logs/oz_linden/chat-2011-05-04.txt'
13:30 | Yuzuru | Hello Oz. |
oobscure | hi everybody | |
Yuzuru | Hello | |
Office Orb | mail_to set to oz@lindenlab.com | |
Start transcription to oz@lindenlab.com | ||
Transcript will be sent to: oz@lindenlab.com | ||
oobscure | there were new web boxes in the login screen | |
13:31 | new to me at least. | |
Oz Linden | No new OPEN issues to look at today, so I have a topic: | |
13:32 | Do you use DebugOS builds on Windows? (as opposed to RelWithDebInfoOS) | |
caps router chum | I made it, weee | |
teddy Zepp | hello all | |
13:33 | caps router chum | stabs caps router |
Oz Linden | let me put it another way: suppose we were to remove Debug builds ... would you care? | |
13:34 | no one? | |
বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | I use it on Linux | |
Oz Linden | sleepy crowd | |
teddy Zepp | ;_0 | |
;-) | ||
Techwolf Lupindo | My OS build setup handles debugging builds. I run under gdb and portage does split-debug. | |
caps router chum | You only asked about 3 seconds ago >.> | |
Yuzuru | Sorry.. I am thinking about it.. | |
caps router chum | I've only used debug once, it was only slightly useful in that case | |
Oz Linden | was longer than that for me.... must have been lagged | |
13:35 | caps router chum | slightly more usefull* than RelWithDebInfo |
Yuzuru | If I can compile it, I don't need debug build. | |
Techwolf Lupindo | I _think_ LL Debug setting only does a couple things to the code? | |
Oz Linden | I ask because they don't work on the mesh branch, which I'm attempting to merge now | |
13:36 | বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | define "don't work"? |
caps router chum | Ah. | |
Dependenacy or code problems? | ||
Techwolf Lupindo | Perhaps we can give you a better answer Oz if we knew just what DebInfo does. | |
13:37 | বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | Main difference between RelWithDebInfo and Debug is that the former is optimized, I think. |
Oz Linden | They are using tcmalloc to deal with some alignment issues for SSE support, but it breaks the MS heap debugger | |
13:38 | I actually don't know what the difference is specifically | |
oobscure | personally I don't need it. I only build to provide feedback to LL, so if LL doesn't need user Debug builds it's fine for me. | |
caps router chum | I think RelWithDebInfo uses the release libs but without optomizations and generates the debug symbols | |
Oz Linden | personally I am not in habit of ever using debuggers (life as a real time networking dev) | |
I use external observation and logging | ||
13:39 | Techwolf Lupindo | There is a couple #if defines that on debug, crash while Release will warning log and continue. |
13:40 | বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | does RelWithDebInfo execute llassert()s or only llalwaysassert()? I know Release doesn't execute llasert()s. |
caps router chum | I think it does | |
Oz Linden | don't know, but that should be easy to figure out | |
Techwolf Lupindo | On linux, all debugging symbles are gen at compile with a gcc flag and those symbles can be stripped at the end and end up wiht a bin just like the gcc debug wasn't there. Hence why split-debug works. The bin is stripped and debugging is in a seperate file. | |
13:41 | caps router chum | There's bugs I'm hit were you'd only generate an error on RelWithDebInfo |
I'd* | ||
বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | ok | |
13:42 | Then Debug probably isn't too important. There should just be some way to test whether non-realease assertions are hit, and with RelWithDebInfo that's available, then. | |
But if you want more feedback, better ask on the mailing list. I suspect there aren't many windows based devs here, today. | ||
13:43 | Oz Linden | I'll do that |
13:44 | very likely, I'll check in the mesh merge, which will break it, and then we'll figure out what to do about it after | |
Techwolf Lupindo | I would also help to clearify just what is the differences are to begine with, so that would be a good secondary question for the list. | |
13:45 | After that mesh merge, going to play with it and see if one huge patch can be generated of just the mesh stuff. | |
বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | what for, Techwolf? | |
Oz Linden | well, it's around 2100 changesets.... | |
13:46 | বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | I doubt that hube patch would apply to anything but exactly what it was made for. |
*huge | ||
Techwolf Lupindo | Looking at single changeset does'nt give you the idea of what all was changed. | |
Oz Linden | you certainly have an interesting way to entertain yourself.... | |
13:47 | caps router chum | Is it possible to build the mesh viewer under OS config? I'm assuming that the missing convex lib isn't a blocker to build. |
Techwolf Lupindo | hehehe | |
Oz Linden | there is a stub version of the lib available on bitbucket | |
13:48 | you'll have to build that locally and substitute the package into the autobuild configuration file | |
which is something we need to make easier.... | ||
13:49 | বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | Different topic: Can EXP-749 be made publicly visible, please? VWR-25595 was closed as a duplicate of it. |
Office Orb | http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-25595
VWR-25595 Profile Icons (group, user) and other art missing or defaulting to generic | |
13:51 | Oz Linden | it should be visible |
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/EXP-749 | ||
caps router chum | Ah. | |
Oz Linden | it's set to be visible, anyway | |
caps router chum | Not for me | |
oobscure | VWR-25477 - same problem | |
Techwolf Lupindo | Permission Violation | |
বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | I get "Permission Violation" on that, (like on most exp issues) | |
Oz Linden | are you logged in to jira? | |
13:52 | caps router chum | Yes. |
বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | yes | |
Oz Linden | hmmm.... | |
Techwolf Lupindo | I'me logged in | |
Yuzuru | I am login but I can't see EXP-749 | |
Ima Mechanique | same here for "Permission Violation" | |
13:53 | Yuzuru | Permission Violation, same |
বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | VWR-25477 is actually a even worser case, as that was moved to EXP-752, so even the originally public issue isn't visible anymore. | |
Oz Linden | I'll see what I can do... I'll have to file an issue against jira | |
13:54 | বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | Thanks. |
caps router chum | Lol. | |
Oz Linden | if it's any comfort, both those issues are marked as fixed | |
caps router chum | Is there an issue on the openID problems with jira killing open tabs? | |
Oz Linden | but may not have been merged yet, I don't know | |
13:55 | I don't know what you're referring to, caps | |
বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | I think the fixes are both in viewer-development, now | |
13:56 | Office Orb | End transcription |
caps router chum | When resuming a session in firefox and the openID auth redirects all open jira tabs to the dashboard. | |
I found the caps issue jira, SVC-6917 | ||
Office Orb | http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6917
SVC-6917 Apache2-worker/caps router on sim hosts is relaying 499 HTTP status codes back to clients - not a valid wire status code | |
Oz Linden | oh... I don't know if there's an issue for that or not | |
if there is, it would be in WEB | ||
বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | ah, yeah, jira doesn't seem to be very RESTful :-P | |
caps router chum | I couldnt find one | |
13:57 | And it would be nice if the caps problems were fixed, I havent been able to do anything on SL for 2 weeks | |
14:00 | Oz Linden | I don't know anything about that, but it doesn't look good.... |
caps router chum | Its not, I can't do anything on v2 till its fixed ;~; | |
14:01 | বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | re openID issues: maybe WEB-2771 should be re-opened? |
Office Orb | http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-2771
WEB-2771 Following a direct link to a JIRA issues shows the system dashboard instead on the first try | |
14:02 | Oz Linden | it's not that simple |
caps router chum | !! | |
Techwolf Lupindo | That one breaks my "jira <search>" trick in firefox. | |
caps router chum | THat looks like the one | |
Oz Linden | that works fine - firefox is doing something other than just repeating the request when it restores the session | |
14:03 | caps router chum | When i log in, it always redirects me to the dashboard, everytime |
Oz Linden | I follow jira links all day, and often (too often) have to log in, and I get there fine | |
caps router chum | Unless I'm logged in already, which is most of the time | |
14:04 | বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | I think the problem is when jira thinks you are not (anymore) logged in, but the central login page thinks you are logged in and redirects you back to jira without asking for credentials. |
Oz Linden | I don't think I've seen that, but I may be accessing things differently | |
14:05 | বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | If I have to log in manually, I get redirected correctly, but if the login page redirects me back without asking me, I end up on the dashboard. |
14:08 | Why did the transcription stop at [13:56]? I thought this UG is now till 14:30, isn't it? | |
Oz Linden | it does... I set the timer wrong and stopped it | |
বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | ah | |
14:09 | Oz Linden | I'll have to fix the timestamp by hand when I create my transcript (laziness fail) |
I'll have to enhance that script... the current Orb assumes meetings end on the hour.... | ||
14:10 | teddy Zepp | when writing a complier is they anyway of using varibles which will pick up on programs bugs so as to shorten the testing methodolgy? |
বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | didn't you want to make your script public some time ago, so that we could help you tweak it? | |
14:11 | teddy Zepp | seems a lot of time is spent in this processes of translating the software program |
14:12 | বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | "complier"? do you mean "compiler"? |
we don't write our compilers ourselfs ... | ||
14:13 | but maybe you're looking for something like assertions or unit tests? | |
Though, while those help catch mistakes, they make compiletime longer, not shorter. | ||
14:14 | Oz Linden | well... there are languages that are closer to "if it compiles then it will run" than C++ |
বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | indeed | |
Oz Linden | but there's no way to make any language foolproof - we fools are way to inventive | |
14:15 | বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | :-P |
teddy Zepp | ahhh | |
thank you Boroondas | ||
বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | you're welcome :-) | |
Cron Stardust | C++ isn't a pretty language, but it's what the industry is stuck with until something replaces it (D is trying...) :P | |
14:16 | teddy Zepp | using C++ how much leak on resourse is there |
Oz Linden | There are lots of ways to write C++ to facilitate the ability to write good small unit tests, and doing that can greatly improve code correctness. | |
teddy Zepp | ? | |
Oz Linden | Alas, there are few examples of those class designs in the viewer code | |
14:17 | C++ is notoriously easy to leak things in | |
14:18 | বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | One could say, memory leaking is the default modus operandi of C++ :-P |
teddy Zepp | yes | |
happens to me many times | ||
14:19 | Cron Stardust | If the existing client was converted into another language, how open would LL be to switching to it? Or is such an idea too soon? |
Oz Linden | I created an issue just recently in hopes that someone might refactor some code to make it testable: STORM-1178 | |
Office Orb | http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1178
STORM-1178 Develop tests for GPU table changes | |
14:20 | Oz Linden | Converted how? |
Cron Stardust | those parts that would be roughly the same transferrred over and other parts re-written, all using unit tests, etc. | |
Oz Linden | That would be a monumental undertaking | |
14:21 | Techwolf Lupindo | The Linux kernel is in english for a good reson. There is no good way to translate error messages and the auto-transator can have bugs in it also. |
Cron Stardust | The language would have to be cross-platform and support existing (or replacement) dependencies of course. | |
Oz Linden | Realistically, if someone wants to incrementally improve the code (as in that issue), that's more than welcome | |
14:22 | teddy Zepp | wouldn't it be an ideal world for certian parts of the code to be hands off |
or is it pen for all develpoment and testing ? | ||
Oz Linden | meaning what? that we don't improve it? | |
teddy Zepp | open | |
14:23 | Oz Linden | I don't think that we consider anything "hands off" in general.... but proving compatibility for some things might be pretty challenging |
Ima Mechanique | teddy, no need for hands off. If LL don't like a patch, they just decline to accept it | |
14:24 | teddy Zepp | ahhh |
good point | ||
I like to start from the ground u just didn't know how much would be allowed | ||
thank you | ||
14:25 | up | |
বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | We only change code if we have a reason to do so. But there might be some parts of the code that don't get changed (maybe although they /should/ get changed), because there's no one left who understands that code enough. | |
teddy Zepp | yes, this appens a lot in the programmers world | |
Oz Linden | happens on all successful software projects, in my experience | |
14:26 | teddy Zepp | yes |
বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | What do you want to start from ground up? Do you want to write a new second life client from scratch? | |
Cron Stardust | AS an aside, I don't remember: is C++ object-code compatible with C? (such that you could compile a section of C++ code and then link it into a C program) | |
teddy Zepp | so at this point what specific areas are we looking on developing or improving ? | |
14:27 | Oz Linden | yes, but you have to declare the C symbols differently |
14:28 | বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | yes and no. C has a flat namespace, so C++ names get mangled. I don't remember whether the mangling rules are implementation dependent or whether you might rely on them. |
14:29 | Cron Stardust | ok: the reason I was asking is that D is object-code compatible with C, and I was wondering if we could do a slow language transition of the source code... But many assumptions would have to be tested before that could even start. |
Oz Linden | /me's mind boggles | |
14:30 | Cron Stardust | hehe, pipe dream, I know... |
Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks | why would you want to? :P | |
Oz Linden | some of my best dreams.... never mind | |
Techwolf Lupindo | D hasn't reached production level yet. | |
Cron Stardust | D has a host of feature (not the least of which is option garbage collection) that could make the viewer much more stable. | |
14:31 | Techwolf Lupindo | In fact, it still a changeing . |
Oz Linden | I've got to go meet with someone about getting a build farm up for contributors.... | |
বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে | \o/ | |
Oz Linden | so thank you all for coming | |
teddy Zepp | thank you | |
caps router chum | Thanks Oz | |
teddy Zepp | Oz | |
Techwolf Lupindo | garbage collection impact performace. | |
oobscure | thank you Oz | |
have a nice day everybody | ||
Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks | tc Oz |