Content Creation User Group/Transcripts/2023.12.07
CONTENT USER GROUP MEETING
Combined Voice & Chat Meeting
7 December 2023
[ Audio recording 2023.12.07 ]
Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Rider.
TreesBreeze: (Φ ᆺ Φ)
Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Leviathan.
Medhue Simoni: Yeah, the VRchat, Tilia news.
Medhue Simoni: Pretty cool.
Leviathan Linden: Hello!
Rider Linden: I used to have a cat who would insist that there was something under my keyboard.
Inara Breen: :)
dantia Gothly: Hello
Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Dan.
Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Vir.
Medhue Simoni: I won't create there tho, lol
Vir Linden: Hi folks!
Cube Republic: I just had two cats move in
Cube Republic: Hi vir
Monstaar Mama: Afternoon Vir!
Sasy Scarborough: hi Vir
Inara Breen: One I mine reckons the keyboard is just a bed in disguise
Darkover Tone: lol
Monstaar Mama: yep!
Cosmic Linden: Hello folks
Sasy Scarborough: congrats to everyone on the launch of that :)
Sasy Scarborough: hi DaveP
dantia Gothly: Hi there. :)
Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, davep.
Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Atlas.
Sasy Scarborough: laughs
Cosmic Linden: SL problems
Rider Linden: Water was so good we decided to draw it twice.
Monstaar Mama: Nice
Sasy Scarborough: yay DaveP and congrats to you and your team ♥
animats: Someone should get Sparrow Linden down from the sky.
Vir Linden: Congrats!
Leviathan Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Game_control
Sasy Scarborough: hi
Sasy Scarborough: we hear you now
Sasy Scarborough: hi Garfield
dantia Gothly: ty Leviathan.
Medhue Simoni: remapping too?
Sasy Scarborough: JOE
TreesBreeze: have friends that do nya ΦωΦ
polysail: I've been asked to ~ on occasion, but the primary problems facing vehicle design is vehicle cohesion while objects are rotating, not input dynamics.
polysail: Most games have a key binding menu
Medhue Simoni: when seated
TreesBreeze: nya... there nya so many custom actions a controller button might do...
dantia Gothly: I wonder if thats related to the interpolation issue in mouse look.
dantia Gothly: with attached moving linksets
Medhue Simoni: or trigger an emote
Cube Republic: thats true like a FPP
polysail: What about first person mode
Cube Republic: FSP
Cube Republic: FPS lol
polysail: game controller should definitely affect that
polysail: even if you're not sitting on your "equipped" item.
polysail: Right but
dantia Gothly: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-234368
Jeffbot 2.1.5: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-234368
polysail: if you're doing game controller input
audio recording time mark 9:34
polysail: Right I thought that was already a thing ~
Medhue Simoni: So everything outside of avatar movement
animats: Camera control?
TreesBreeze: joystick_axis = llGetPreferredInput("accelerate");
TreesBreeze: dunno nya ΦωΦ
polysail: I guess where I'm struggling here
Medhue Simoni: Maybe if I wanted to embody an npc?
polysail: is understanding how LSL inputs differ from avatar control inputs
polysail: don't LSL commands already recognize Left Key Press Etc
Istauri Arai: Doesn't understand axis or controller buttons
ostiabs: Am I reading correctly that this is digital controller input with no analog input available? I'll have to find my SNES controllers.
Monstaar Mama: Hrm
Cube Republic: force feedback?
audio recording time mark 13:24
polysail: So ... what you're asking about isn't a button remaking issue. It's what to do with non-binary input values?
Medhue Simoni: woohoo better sex toys, lol
TreesBreeze: the latency on using server to control force feedback would not be so good...
ostiabs: People are definitely going to plug in an xbox controller and expect to be able to aim.
Istauri Arai: Would still be better than nothing
Leviathan Linden: latency wouldn't be worse than current control() event.
polysail: At the moment scripts function based off of action.
polysail: why woudl a script care what the button mapping is specifically?
polysail: Like ?
Istauri Arai: So it can tell people what button to press for what function
animats: If you let people configure it in the viewer, everybody will have it different. If you let people configure it in the object's LSL, every object will do it different.
animats: We need a best practices document before everybody does it different.
polysail: Is a scripter going to have to write a different solution for an PS Square Button or an Xbox A Button?
Sasy Scarborough: depends on the subject :)
Sasy Scarborough: that is usually me
Rider Linden: Sometimes they can be QUITE vocal.
Sasy Scarborough: also me
Medhue Simoni: lol
Darkover Tone: lol
Istauri Arai: No voice transcripts if you're not typing!
Istauri Arai: I would try and keep it as standardised as possible and not weirdly arbitrary and disconnected from other platforms
Istauri Arai: SL has a bad habit of naming things strangely compared to other engines/programs
Darkover Tone: agree
Sasy Scarborough: lol
TreesBreeze: llRegisterButton(BUTTON_1, "Fire lasers") llRegisterAxis(TRIGGER_L, "Move crane forward");
TreesBreeze: then in preferences
TreesBreeze: these would show up
TreesBreeze: with those names
Medhue Simoni: a visual menu
polysail: I don't understand the need for vehicle specific controls
polysail: instead of a global remapping
TreesBreeze: yes
Medhue Simoni: what about mobile?
audio recording time mark 22:00
Medhue Simoni: lol
Kyle Linden: Like pairing your PS controller to your iPhone Medhue?
Monstaar Mama: Why
Rider Linden: O.o
Monstaar Mama: LOL
TreesBreeze: ΦωΦ
dantia Gothly: I've had some strange behavior with masked gradient textures in PBR, I'm curious if anyone else has had a chance to play around with them.
Medhue Simoni: It's all new, I'm just thinking.
Monstaar Mama: My boss keeps telling me that she gets major glitches when going between land and water in PBR. Only saying this because she's poking me to mention it, I have no experience with the PBR yet.
Darkover Tone: vehicle specific seems too restrictive, standard global remapping leaves more options that we can't predict initially?
Monstaar Mama: I'm just an animator
Darkover Tone: glitches?
Sasy Scarborough: simple to start and grow from there maybe
dantia Gothly: if you walk into the water with non-transparent water you lose controls lol
Darkover Tone: o?
Darkover Tone: =o
Darkover Tone: i'm just seeing visual issues
Atlas Linden: Mira, is this what you're referring to? https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-234759
Jeffbot 2.1.5: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-234759
Sasy Scarborough: lol
Darkover Tone: i guess the dynamic rendering as you cam around and the lighting changes, it seems mostly to be a negative thing....i mostly notice it when being on the water and camming boat level....everything turns super overcast looking, it's super depressing :(
Cosmic Linden: XD
TreesBreeze: /me nod
animats: The sun is still too dim in PBR.
Monstaar Mama: @Atlas I'm not sure. I'll forward these to Teager and our scripter. Again I'm not nearly as technical as you guys are.
Atlas Linden: All good. Please ask them to file a jira if they believe it's something else
TreesBreeze: nya
TreesBreeze: if we do support custom names
Monstaar Mama: Knowing our scripter, if she hasn't already she will.
TreesBreeze: the viewer should cache Nyany remapping the user does
Runitai Linden: @Joe sun brightness range is going to be constrained until we get into GLTF phase 2 and support for GLTF defined lights that are on-spec
Sasy Scarborough: Cosmic and Terrain
audio recording time mark 29:00
TreesBreeze: ฅ/ᐠ｡ᆽ｡ᐟ \
Monstaar Mama: omg so cute
Sasy Scarborough: Cosmic looks like Atlas's lunch
Atlas Linden: Nomnom
Sasy Scarborough: lol
Kyle Linden: o.O
Sasy Scarborough: excited
TreesBreeze: /me looks down nyat the pixels on the floor
Runitai Linden: @Darkover yeah, the sky is bright and the sun itself isn't in that snapshot, and exposure is correcting for the bright sky and water and directly lit stuff is being dimmed down
Runitai Linden: getting it all into physical light units is a task for phase 2 when we start looking at supporting full GLTF scenes including punctual lights
Wulfie Reanimator: Hiding online status
Darkover Tone: and that will hopefully get us back to happy sunny days lol?
Garfield Linden: I believe we were just talking about that in internal feature triage
Istauri Arai: That would be very handy
Rider Linden: I'm sure there is a feature request for that that we've accepted in the recent past.
Darkover Tone: and also what i posted a bit earlier [13:27:12] (You): i guess the dynamic rendering as you cam around and the lighting changes, it seems mostly to be a negative thing....i mostly notice it when being on the water and camming boat level....everything turns super overcast looking, it's super depressing :(
Rider Linden: /me wants it.
dantia Gothly: https://gyazo.com/228aa4ab2e2cbf22a6c8bc146ca0f35c
TreesBreeze: log in pay sim rent log off
Istauri Arai: Some people take it very personally
Runitai Linden: @Darkover not automatically -- the core issue is that the existing sun and sky system wasn't built with physical units in mind, so you'll have to tune your sky settings to get what you want
Darkover Tone: "appearing offline"
Wulfie Reanimator: "Appearing offline" is a very common feature in other chat programs like Steam/Discord/Slack
Runitai Linden: (you can disable the adjustment to HDR and turn off auto exposure if you apply a sky that was saved wit hthe PBR viewer with Reflection Probe Ambiance set to zero)
Darkover Tone: i tried playing with the settings, nothing seems to help really
Darkover Tone: tried that too
Leviathan Linden: "login offline" is not the best term I think. Maybe "login incognito" or ... something else?
Darkover Tone: no joy, things look very depressing
TreesBreeze: it is probably more important for creators than the general public. I don't think I'd use it that much, but there nya times when it would be nice
Istauri Arai: You would need it before you log in or everyone would see you appear and disappear
Istauri Arai: You'd need to be able to do it at login and while already online
Darkover Tone: in general it seems to be more of an issue when over water than over land
Runitai Linden: @Darkover if you file a jira with the location, I can take a look at that specific sky setting and see if anything jumps out as odd with it
audio recording time mark 35:30
Rider Linden: I was just looking for the feature request.
animats: I've seen "Offline" from friends when we're standing face to face.
Rider Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-234653
Jeffbot 2.1.5: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-234653
Darkover Tone: ok ty! should i tag you in the jira?
Rider Linden: Found it.
Runitai Linden: @Darkover sure thing
Darkover Tone: kk :)
Wulfie Reanimator: Leviathan, some apps phrase it as "appear offline" or "invisible." Incognito works too.
Darkover Tone: "appear offline" seems easiest for all to understand
Sasy Scarborough: it does
Rider Linden: The IK was what was blocking me.
Istauri Arai: Appear offline is the description I've heard before
Medhue Simoni: You kind of have unlimited animation layering now
animats: LL promotional material shows people holding hands. Try to do that in-world.
Darkover Tone: with invisible they'll expect the avie to be invis too ::D
TreesBreeze: I thought it's stuck behind nyall the heirachy stuff :3
polysail: we already have foot IK in animations
polysail: ... that's already part of SL
Signal Linden: I want to be dragged like a ragdoll behind a running horse, that'd be pretty cool
Medhue Simoni: You can do that now
dantia Gothly: @_@
Wulfie Reanimator: But only for built-in animations, not AOs or other animations.
Sasy Scarborough: lol Signal
polysail: it's very limited
polysail: but it exists
Istauri Arai: You can do it with other animations but it's hacky
Istauri Arai: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-230329
Jeffbot 2.1.5: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-230329
Wulfie Reanimator: It works with mesh avatars/bento legs
Darkover Tone: for horse peeps it's a thing
audio recording time mark 40:20
Runitai Linden: /ao off
animats: A good first step would be a way to get avatar dimensions back to scripts.
Darkover Tone: future project?
Rider Linden: There are some of the basic avatar dimensions available to a script. llGetVisualParams
ostiabs: Has anyone ever looked at using a LEAP plugin to create a mod manager? Something that would allow extending the default viewer without having to self compile?
dantia Gothly: your bounding box is a cube, getagentsize returns that value spot on but without the hover offset info.
dantia Gothly: hitbox*
ostiabs: A lot of what I'm hearing discussed may be better handled by individual communities creating their own mods.
Darkover Tone: some global framework to make it easier and consistent across the board sounds more future proof than everyone doing their own thing
Darkover Tone: also easier for new residents to deal with?
ostiabs: Every other game ever made would disagree.
Darkover Tone: yeh idk, that could be a separate discussion lol
ostiabs: Nah, we'll just do it and tell you about it later. More our speed.
Darkover Tone: not talking about a closed, locked system, but something to build on and reference, being flexible
Sasy Scarborough: :)
Vir Linden: osti, yes, that is something we're interested in. Some discussion lately about viewer-side scripting which that could be part of
Darkover Tone: /me whistles for their horse.
audio recording time mark 46:00
Vir Linden: viewer-side scripting probably a topic for a future meeting
Sasy Scarborough: yes please
Cube Republic: touch that sausage at the buffet
Darkover Tone: would be so amazing
Istauri Arai: yeah!
Istauri Arai: Would that allow us to play animations as they download rather than having to wait for the asset?
Istauri Arai: Because that's one of the big things that leaves us all desynced
Sasy Scarborough: whispers: :)
Wulfie Reanimator: What kind of support does GLTF provide for animation streaming?
Wulfie Reanimator: I gotcha, thanks
dantia Gothly: it has shape keys
TreesBreeze: shape keys /ᐠ. ｡.ᐟ\ᵐᵉᵒʷˎˊ˗
Istauri Arai: shape keeeeeeeeeeys
dantia Gothly: we could really use those.
Medhue Simoni: imagine that on avatars, lol
dantia Gothly: yeah
dantia Gothly: I am
Istauri Arai: I imagine it daily :U
dantia Gothly: every day
Monstaar Mama: So much potential fun TuT
TreesBreeze: avatar scale factor ΦωΦ
dantia Gothly: I want more animation @_@
dantia Gothly: animated projectors
Sasy Scarborough: actually paint in pathways etc will be amazing
Istauri Arai: Not right now we don't
dantia Gothly: animated particles.
dantia Gothly: yes
Istauri Arai: Actually painting would be super amazing
Istauri Arai: .0625
dantia Gothly: painting path decals on PBR terrain
Darkover Tone: ooo
Medhue Simoni: It would be amazing, especialy with normals
dantia Gothly: With an animated light projector I could fake caustics in a room.
Cube Republic: yum
Istauri Arai: Triplanar!
Monstaar Mama: Yaaaaay Triplanar
audio recording time mark 54:50
Ifrit Skytower: could we ever be able to paint/cut parts out of the terrain, so we could add meshes/caves/underground etc objects in the holes?
Monstaar Mama: /me dances
Monstaar Mama: 2034
dantia Gothly: add some volumetric lighting.
Monstaar Mama: XD
TreesBreeze: caves >:3
Camera Lock HUD: Camera free.
Sasy Scarborough: lol
Medhue Simoni: There will always be something to cry about, lol
dantia Gothly: cry about?
Rider Linden: The golfers will come after us...
Darkover Tone: would it be estates only and not main land?
Monstaar Mama: Oh no the golfers
Istauri Arai: lol
dantia Gothly: is there voice conversation going on I can't hear?
Istauri Arai: do it
Istauri Arai: Yes Dantia
Runitai Linden: ya
Rider Linden: Yes, Dantia
dantia Gothly: aasfoujqnefojkq
Istauri Arai: the lindens have been talking on voice
Istauri Arai: for the whole meeting
dantia Gothly: what a waste of time
Darkover Tone: residents can talk too though
TreesBreeze: can we finish that feature i want moving water ΦωΦ
Monstaar Mama: Lol Dantia gj
Istauri Arai: lol
Darkover Tone: why do people get so mad, couldn't even tell them that there might be a video of it...
Darkover Tone: moving water!
Sasy Scarborough: just do ittttt
Darkover Tone: o Dantia, there should be a video of this meeting posted so you can catch up if you want
polysail: What's the difference between "Extrusion" and Heightmap?
dantia Gothly: did someone respond to my masking question. if you did I missed it.
Ifrit Skytower: https://i.imgur.com/eJExMHE.png
Istauri Arai: Exactly like that
Monstaar Mama: @ Dantia, I didn't see anything. Go ahead and bring it up again!
Istauri Arai: that would be great!
dantia Gothly: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-234728
Jeffbot 2.1.5: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-234728
Ifrit Skytower: down to 20,000 leagues
Kyle Linden: terrain curtains ;)
dantia Gothly: https://gyazo.com/228aa4ab2e2cbf22a6c8bc146ca0f35c
dantia Gothly: this
Medhue Simoni: Nice avatar Dan!!!
Dan Linden: dantia, I've been looking at it, and it repros sometimes for me. I've been trying to figure out why
Runitai Linden: @dantia looking
Monstaar Mama: Oh boy that looks fun.
Monstaar Mama: I love graphics issues
dantia Gothly: LOL
animats: You can see the underside of terrain at the edge of the world.
dantia Gothly: sorry dave
dantia Gothly: I broke more stuff
dantia Gothly: already did
Vir Linden: That's very cool
Atlas Linden: Keep the jiras coming dantia :P
Monstaar Mama: fun
Monstaar Mama: TuT
dantia Gothly: yes
Leviathan Linden: It sounded to me like Sasy and DaveP were describing the same solution: add triangles so the terrain boundary shows as a cliff (extrusion) to zero rather than being able to see the underside of the terrain.
Monstaar Mama: Are you excited for bugs?
animats: Bye all!
Monstaar Mama: :D
Nya Blackwood: thank you for the meeting :3
Istauri Arai: Thanks all!
Signal Linden: Adios, folks
TreesBreeze: haze (Φ ᆺ Φ)
Medhue Simoni: Thanks Lindens!!
Rider Linden: Thank you everyone.
Monstaar Mama: Great meeting!! Thank you so much guys!!
Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Vir.
TreesBreeze: see nyaaaa
Monstaar Mama: byyeeee
Atlas Linden: tc all!
Grip Reaper: bye bye
dantia Gothly: make sure to decompress from all the work you've done guys
Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Lindens.
Rider Linden: Pluk
Medhue Simoni: lol
Leviathan Linden: The next meeting would be the 21st I think. Some Lindens should still be at work on that date.