Open Development User Group/Archive/2011-02-07

[07:00]	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে:	Hi Oz
[07:00]	Oz Linden:	hi all!
[07:00]	Twisted Laws:	Hi
[07:00]	Office Orb:	mail_to set to oz@lindenlab.com
[07:00]	Office Orb:	Start transcription to oz@lindenlab.com
[07:00]	Office Orb:	Transcript will be sent to: oz@lindenlab.com
[07:00]	Cummere Mayo:	hey oz!
[07:00]	Cummere Mayo:	hopes oz isnt a stealers fan >.>
[07:01]	Oz Linden:	no, Patriots & Redskins - I was rooting for Green Bay
[07:02]	Wolfpup:	i saw the end of the game when i got home from RL work as roommate had the game on
[07:02]	Oz Linden:	it was a very good game
[07:02]	Cummere Mayo:	that was one serious game, however shall we get on topic?
[07:02]	Oz Linden:	I was actually coding during it :-)
[07:02]	Cummere Mayo:	oz i sent you a list of what i think are mostly build tools / lib related jiras
[07:02]	Oz Linden:	So... I am in the middle of reorganizing my agenda page for this meeting. so I don't have a link
[07:03]	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Oz_Linden/Office_Hours_Topics
[07:03]	Wolfpup:	i tested the new auto build reop you did Oz and it still works fin for those with VS pro
[07:03]	Wolfpup:	at least for me
[07:03]	Jonathan:	It is failing for Express though, those missing .h files
[07:03]	Oz Linden:	ah... good... let's go over that here today, but I'd like to go over the autobuild issues first
[07:04]	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে:	ok
[07:04]	Twisted Laws:	as long as autobuild configure works and i can compile with the IDE i'm fine
[07:04]	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে:	didn't get to try autobuild, yet
[07:04]	Wolfpup:	i was having issues with the missing h files till i made an adjustnemt to the ide
[07:04]	Jonathan:	Wolfpup, that is not a long-term solution I think
[07:04]	Cummere Mayo:	is there a jira about the h files somewhere?
[07:04]	Twisted Laws:	what'd u change in the ide, wolfpup?
[07:04]	Jonathan:	It was mentioned on the mailing list cummere
[07:05]	Oz Linden:	no, it's not a long term solution, but it may be enough to do the merge
[07:05]	Wolfpup:	twisted add extra folders ti the includes and libs f under optiond
[07:05]	Oz Linden:	first things first... I did a pass over the exisiting wiki docs on Autobuild this morning
[07:06]	Oz Linden:	I'd appreciate review/commentary/suggestions/fixes for all the pages linked from https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Autobuild
[07:06]	Oz Linden:	at your lesiure, of course
[07:06]	Wolfpup:	Twisted look up the viewr2_microsoft wiki
[07:06]	Oz Linden:	We don't yet have a page specifically on building the viewer with autobuild, but I'm going to start that today
[07:07]	Oz Linden:	will send a note to the list when it's up
[07:07]	Twisted Laws:	i already had them in the includes/libs, thanks
[07:09]	Oz Linden:	So... the status of OPEN-1
[07:09]	Office Orb:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-1 OPEN-1 autobuild does not support use with Visual Studio Express
[07:10]	Oz Linden:	Do we believe that we have an acceptable workaround if we modify the autobuild.xml in the viewer to make a configuration specifically for Express ?
[07:10]	Wolfpup:	Jonathan mabey the SDK's your useing might not have the needed files
[07:10]	Wolfpup:	that workaround dose look good Oz
[07:10]	Jonathan:	You will update that xml to have the other options, e.g. Release?
[07:11]	Oz Linden:	I was thinking that we really don't need the others
[07:11]	Oz Linden:	no one is going to build a Release viewer with Express
[07:12]	Jonathan:	err, I do all the time
[07:12]	Twisted Laws:	it seems to me that something is ignoring the INCLUDE env variable
[07:12]	Twisted Laws:	i do all the time too
[07:12]	Oz Linden:	and as far as I know there isn't any real advantage to using Debug.... ?
[07:12]	Wolfpup:	Oz whant i do my confid i do it forthe normal configureation but then i build in release mode for the ide
[07:12]	Twisted Laws:	until autobuild i've always built release
[07:12]	Jonathan:	And I copy an existing shortcut to make a new shortcut, I really don't want to have to remember where my binary is and adjust it
[07:13]	Oz Linden:	why? in any event, I hope to get a real fix that will let autobuild adapt to Express and use the normal configurations
[07:13]	Twisted Laws:	i share my builds with 2 or 3 other people and share the install that is built as well as changes
[07:13]	Oz Linden:	doesn't building in release mode loose symbols ?
[07:13]	Jonathan:	Also, before forcing WithDebug on us, it would be nice to do a timing test--1hr 15m to compile is already hard enough on me
[07:14]	Jonathan:	And a link time of 6 minutes--I don't want more symbols, work done by the compiler, etc
[07:14]	Wolfpup:	the only way to do that would be for autobuild do like develop.py dose now and test for express
[07:14]	Oz Linden:	no one is forcing anything... let's not start that
[07:14]	Jonathan:	sorry, poor choice of words
[07:14]	Twisted Laws:	i've been building my own viewer for over 3 years and have never had unsurmountable issues till now :(
[07:15]	Oz Linden:	My concern is that I dont' want to continue the combinatorial explosion of configurations
[07:15]	Jonathan:	I am curious about something--
[07:15]	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে:	make the config modular?
[07:15]	Jonathan:	Why are the options combined--it would make more sense to have Release + Opensource as 2 items
[07:16]	Oz Linden:	would someone do a comparison of Release vs RelWithDebInfo of installability, installer size, and build-from-clean time using Express?
[07:16]	Oz Linden:	yes, it would make sense, but autobuild does not support that (yet)
[07:16]	Jonathan:	I would do that test if I had an xml file with the Release settings
[07:16]	Wolfpup:	to me with pro the build times seem aboput the same for me
[07:17]	Jonathan:	I guess I could just substitute Release for Rel with Dbg
[07:17]	Oz Linden:	yes, I believe that would do it, Jonathan
[07:17]	Jonathan:	ok, my cpu will be burning hot today
[07:18]	Wolfpup:	yes CPU capacity dose make a difference in build times
[07:18]	Oz Linden:	please do that test and let us know the results. Unless there is a substantial cost to leave in the debug info, I'd prefer to use that so that we have one target that's usable for either purpose
[07:18]	Oz Linden:	as long as both builds are done on the same system, I'm prepared to believe the test will be valid
[07:19]	Jonathan:	oh wait, I cannot test, there is the issue of the.h files
[07:19]	Wolfpup:	the thing is when you build a release with debut the viewer is set to auto start the debug loging consol window
[07:19]	Oz Linden:	That issue being that the build only works when you run it from within the IDE, and not when you run the 'autobuild build' command?
[07:20]	Wolfpup:	which is the same information that is in the secondlife.log file
[07:20]	Jonathan:	I have not tried the combination of autobuild configure + ide compile -- autobuild build fails with missing .h files
[07:20]	Wolfpup:	im talking about outside the ide when you do an relwithdebinfo build
[07:20]	Oz Linden:	sigh
[07:21]	Oz Linden:	ok.... let's back up
[07:21]	Twisted Laws:	i notice the build directory is in a different directory with autobuild
[07:21]	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে:	brb
[07:21]	Oz Linden:	I want to know if the autobuild configuration works
[07:21]	Jonathan:	Yes on Express
[07:21]	Wolfpup:	works here
[07:21]	Oz Linden:	I really really really do not care about any other way of doing it
[07:21]	Twisted Laws:	it fails 2 tests for me
[07:21]	Oz Linden:	I really really really do not want to talk now about any other way of doing it
[07:21]	Twisted Laws:	they were in one of the emails...
[07:21]	Jonathan:	Twisted, the configuration fails?
[07:21]	Twisted Laws:	i don't have that issue when i use cmake .
[07:22]	Twisted Laws:	no the compile fails 2 tests
[07:22]	Oz Linden:	Twisted -- please stop confusing the issue
[07:22]	Jonathan:	Please don't make Oz crazy--let's stick with just autobuild
[07:22]	Jonathan:	so all agree autobuild configure works?
[07:22]	Wolfpup:	Twisted i think your problem is that your useing the cgwin console and not the windows cmd window
[07:22]	Twisted Laws:	when i autobuild configure, it builds in a different directory and the compile with the ide fails 2 tests
[07:23]	Twisted Laws:	when i configure with cmake ., the tests pass
[07:23]	Oz Linden:	In fact, the configure step is essentially optional I think.... if you run the build command on a configuration you have not yet run the configure step for, it runs that step for you automatically
[07:23]	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে:	back
[07:23]	Oz Linden:	Twisted.... last warning... if you continue I'm going to get annoyed
[07:24]	Wolfpup:	then it basicaly runs develop.py with a different target dir then
[07:24]	Oz Linden:	If there is a problem on some systems or configurations with just running 'autobuild build -c VCexpressRelWithDebInfo' , then I want to know what they are.
[07:24]	Cummere Mayo:	is so lost anyways so running afk while she changes
[07:24]	Wolfpup:	or at least some thing similar
[07:25]	Jonathan:	Oz, did you see those emails about the 2 .h files?
[07:25]	Oz Linden:	Please add comments to OPEN-1 about those issues if there are any
[07:25]	Oz Linden:	Next issue...
[07:25]	Oz Linden:	OPEN-4
[07:25]	Office Orb:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-4 OPEN-4 As an Open Source Developer, I would like to use Fmod in the autobuild system if i have the needed files already
[07:26]	Oz Linden:	I'm going to meet later today with some Lindens and try to work out a solution to this that's good enough....
[07:26]	Wolfpup:	there is a posible solution also listed in open-6
[07:26]	Office Orb:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-6 OPEN-6 Add support to autobuild for local archives as dependencies and as targets
[07:27]	Oz Linden:	it's possible that will initially just be documentation on how to manually put the fmod distribution in the right place, but we'll see if we can do better than that
[07:27]	Wolfpup:	i added it there last nigh
[07:27]	Oz Linden:	Right - that's part of what open-6 is about
[07:27]	Wolfpup:	as it would cover all 3p libs
[07:28]	Oz Linden:	I don't think that I understood your suggestion, Wolfpup, but I'll give it another read later
[07:29]	Jonathan:	What did you think of my idea to have an environment vairable point to those fmod files?
[07:29]	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে:	is the FMOD issue the same as before autobuild (i.e. non-public download location)?
[07:29]	Wolfpup:	basicaly opensource the autobuild 'wrabper for fmod' and then let the OS devs that use it load the source files into it
[07:30]	Oz Linden:	An important part of what autobuild is about is reducing the need for so many command line options
[07:31]	Oz Linden:	I do think that it might be interesting to be able to locally override autobuild package settings from the file either from the command line or from the environment, but specifying them would be complex
[07:31]	Wolfpup:	and i was sugesting to make a folder in the autobuild sustem that would stor all 3p libs/includes and have a sincle file that autobuild would monitor for seeing if it needed to load files from the local folder or fetch them from online
[07:31]	Oz Linden:	for now, I think that the ability to have a modified configuration file might be enough, and I have the change for that done (open-7)
[07:31]	Office Orb:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-7 OPEN-7 autobuild: add selection of the config-file using an environment variable
[07:32]	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে:	many command line options? The only ones of which there are plenty are the -D... stuff, but I don't see how autobuild would reduce those.
[07:33]	Oz Linden:	used correctly, autobuild should eliminate the need for the -D options
[07:33]	Jonathan:	Oz, for Express I had to go through a convoluted process to set up to use the 3 msvc80* files, and that requires either an env variable or dropping them into the build tree
[07:33]	Oz Linden:	because they'll all be in the autobuild configuration
[07:33]	Oz Linden:	please document that in open-1, jonathan
[07:34]	Jonathan:	ok, it's in the how-to-build wiki
[07:34]	Jonathan:	but I will make it clearer
[07:34]	Oz Linden:	we'll move it to a wiki page as soon as we believe we've got a stable solution
[07:34]	Wolfpup:	right now if you try to use -DFMOD=TRUE it will also set -DPRIVATEBUILD=TRUE and OS devs do not need that
[07:34]	Oz Linden:	I don't want the wiki docs on how to build the viewer modified for autobuild yet, please
[07:34]	Oz Linden:	please file an issue on that, Wolfpup
[07:35]	Cummere Mayo:	get it working consistantly first, then document?
[07:35]	Jonathan:	Clarification--I will make the steps clearer in open-1
[07:35]	Oz Linden:	exactly, Cummere
[07:35]	Wolfpup:	i think the OS autobuild wiki for the viewer should be its own page
[07:35]	Cummere Mayo:	+1 wolfpup
[07:35]	Oz Linden:	What I want to do is set up the viewer build documentation this way:
[07:35]	Wolfpup:	like there are ones for linux, mac, and windows
[07:37]	Oz Linden:	1 page that has: links to platoform-specific environment setup pages, a section on how to download the viewer repo, a section (very short) on how to run the autobuild command, and a section with platform-specific links on how to run your test viewer
[07:37]	Oz Linden:	.has to step away for a moment.... home interrupt
[07:39]	Oz Linden:	I'm back
[07:39]	Wolfpup:	wb
[07:40]	Oz Linden:	(had to help w/ the garage door ... melting snow keeps popping the GFI breaker that the garage door is on)
[07:40]	Wolfpup:	it is ok
[07:40]	Wolfpup:	GFI breakers are a good thing they help pervent fire and getting shicked
[07:40]	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে:	what did I miss? my laptop decided to spontaneously shut down due to hot CPU :-\
[07:41]	Eddi Decosta:	hi there:)
[07:41]	Wolfpup:	hey eddi
[07:41]	Cummere Mayo:	sounds like you have a wire short somewhere then oz
[07:41]	Oz Linden:	so... I'd _really_ like to get the autobuild branch merged this week, so please do the tests and document where we are in open-1
[07:42]	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে:	has anyone tested it on Linux 64bit, yet, or is that up to me?
[07:42]	Wolfpup:	well for VS Pro open-1 good to go
[07:42]	Oz Linden:	no, there is an outdoor outlet that the ice gets into... which is what GFI breakers are for....
[07:43]	Oz Linden:	not that I know of, Boroondas
[07:43]	Cummere Mayo:	ah. dont have a snow cover for it oz?
[07:43]	Oz Linden:	I don't know if enough of the dependencies are available yet to do that, but by all means try standalone
[07:43]	Wolfpup:	Broondas test it in non-standalone and stanalon if you can
[07:44]	Wolfpup:	Oz those outdoors outlets might have bad seal and need to be replaced
[07:45]	Oz Linden:	Cummere... I wanted to go back to your list, but I don't see the email
[07:45]	Cummere Mayo:	let me try resending
[07:45]	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে:	What is the command to use autobuild with standalone?
[07:45]	Oz Linden:	I've replaced the seals.... it only happens a couple of times a year...
[07:46]	Oz Linden:	there are standalone configurations in the config file
[07:46]	Oz Linden:	(I think)
[07:46]	Oz Linden:	OpenSourceStandalone...
[07:46]	Wolfpup:	yes there are
[07:46]	Cummere Mayo:	resent
[07:46]	Wolfpup:	OpenSourceStandAlone is how they start
[07:47]	Eddi Decosta:	hi tech
[07:47]	Oz Linden:	Let's make going over that list our agenda for the Wednesday meeting (hopefully by then the autobuild stuff will be merged)
[07:47]	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে:	merged to viewer-dev?
[07:47]	Wolfpup:	< will miss the wensday meeting as he will be @ RL work
[07:48]	Oz Linden:	yes, that's what I meant, Boroondas
[07:48]	Oz Linden:	Any non-autobuild issues today?
[07:48]	Cummere Mayo:	well im not even sure how much of that is build tools and how much i confused with it.. so thats why i sent it to you now before i went any further
[07:48]	Wolfpup:	Broondas Oz has a merged repos that is the current viewer-development + autobuild
[07:48]	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে:	what's the status of VWR-24487? Any ETA on the decision on that?
[07:48]	Office Orb:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-24487 VWR-24487 llurlentry_stub.cpp:196: error: deprecated conversion from string constant to 'char*'
[07:49]	Oz Linden:	no decision yet, but....
[07:49]	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে:	(If it'll take long, we should probably use the quick-and-dirty cast-to-non-const fix in the meantime)
[07:49]	Oz Linden:	Team Chopper is in the process of converting all our sources to be VS2010 compatible, and...
[07:49]	Oz Linden:	in the process we're getting a lot of things cleaned up
[07:50]	Oz Linden:	the problem I have with changing the file in the viewer tree is that it's supposed to be generated from the template, the _real_ version of which is in the simulator sources
[07:51]	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে:	yeah
[07:51]	Oz Linden:	so what I want to get done is apply the fix to the template processing in the sim tree, and check in the fixed result in the viewer tree
[07:51]	Oz Linden:	hoping to do that during the VS2010 cleanup
[07:52]	Oz Linden:	which we hope will be finished in the next 2-3 weeks - that is in no way a promise
[07:52]	Wolfpup:	one thing for shure there will need to be some adjustments needed for VS2010
[07:52]	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে:	though, probably instead of keeping that header in sync, we should keep the message template in sync and generate the header as part of the viewer build? as it is now, the message template and the header can be (and are currently) out of sync in the viewer source tree.
[07:53]	Oz Linden:	actually, what I'd like to do is remove the template from the viewer tree completely
[07:53]	Wolfpup:	VS2010 dose not have an options to add specific default include, exe, and lib folders
[07:53]	Oz Linden:	and just put a comment in the generated file that documents that it comes from the sim tree build
[07:54]	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে:	isn't the template also used for ensureing protocol compatibility outside of these headers?
[07:54]	Cummere Mayo:	hey oz I have a question for you though im not sure if youre able/allowed to answer it
[07:55]	Oz Linden:	I don't know what other hurdles we'll face with the VS2010 conversion... the current semi-plan is to get a lot of Lindens in a room and have a hackaton to do most of it in one go...
[07:55]	Oz Linden:	I don't know, Boroondas... need to investigate more deeply
[07:55]	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে:	ok ...
[07:55]	Oz Linden:	ask away, Cummere
[07:55]	Wolfpup:	would not being in on that hackathing
[07:56]	Cummere Mayo:	why is it that LL is refusing to crack down on devices like the one in VWR-24746 that rip ip and or mac addresses and make publically availible lists of "alts"
[07:56]	Office Orb:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-24746 VWR-24746 Ban ZFRedzone
[07:56]	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে:	Until the real issue gets tickled, can we take in the quick fix of casting the literal to non-const? It'd be nice to be able to build without having to modify the repo.
[07:56]	Oz Linden:	I'm going to investigate incorporating open devs into the hackathon... when I know more about when & how it will happen, I'll let you know
[07:57]	Oz Linden:	Sorry, Cummere... you're right... not something I can discuss except to say that it's a complicated issue that does get discussed within LL from time to time
[07:57]	Wolfpup:	< would hope it is on his day off from his RL job
[07:58]	Cummere Mayo:	can you please point the right people to that jira?
[07:58]	Oz Linden:	I'll discuss the template/const issue with Q and get back to you
[07:58]	Jonathan:	I hope Robin C can be part of that hackathon
[07:58]	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে:	Hackatron might be difficult for community devs, due to timezone etc.. But be sure to check jira and mailing list for existing fixes.
[07:59]	Oz Linden:	Yes, one of the things I have to do between now and whenever it is is to collect existing fixes....
[07:59]	Oz Linden:	will probably ask for help on that
[07:59]	Cummere Mayo:	im doing my best on that. :-/
[07:59]	Jonathan:	Dealing with the various incarnations the msvc* files is a real pain
[08:00]	Office Orb:	Your timer has expired!
[08:00]	Jonathan:	That is Robin's area of expertise
[08:00]	Oz Linden:	I'll put participation in the hackathon on our next meeting agenda too
[08:01]	Cummere Mayo:	i wish i knew of an easy way other then commenting (which still gets lost) to tag a jira with soemthing bright and noticable that says the fix is there
[08:01]	Wolfpup:	will be happy when open 4,6, and 9 are in the autobuild system
[08:01]	Oz Linden:	Ok folks... our time is up today... I've got some other things to attend to, and you've got autobuild tests to run....
[08:01]	Office Orb:	End transcription
[08:01]	Jonathan:	oz, see my last comment on open-1
[08:01]	Office Orb:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-1 OPEN-1 autobuild does not support use with Visual Studio Express