Open Development User Group/Archive/2011-02-28

	Ardy Lay	Hello Oz. Welcome to .... your office!
	Oz Linden	Hi everyone
07:01	Ardy Lay	Thinderstorms and tornados have yet again failed to eliminate me, hard as they try.
07:02		Last night was FUN
	Cummere Mayo	eeks tornado? you okay ardy?
	Wolfpup	Ardy where do you live?
	Oz Linden	I'm in danger of being washed away today.... it's warmed up and raining, and the snowpack is melting
	Ardy Lay	South central Illinois
	Jonathan	http://images.intellicast.com/WxImages/Radar/usa.gif
07:03	Wolfpup	Oz i may have found a bug in Cmake that will cause issues in autobuild useing VS2010
	Oz Linden	So.... agenda today is to review some things about the OPEN project workflow, and then triage lots of issues there
	Wolfpup	in certian system configurations
	Oz Linden	let's deal with that later, WP
07:04	Cummere Mayo	meh i was hoping tonya would show up this morning :(
	Oz Linden	So... first: OPEN project workflow....
		I've modified the issue states and transitions to be more like VWR in one respect:
07:05		when an issue is created, it will begin in "Awaiting Review" state, which means that it has not been triaged yet
07:06		For anything really obvious, I'll just move it to Open state on my own as soon as I see it, which shouldn't be more than a working day under normal circumstances
07:07		If I have any question about it, I'll leave it and we'll discuss it either on the list or one of the Open Development User Group meetings
07:08		otherwise, the rest of the workflow is still the same as STORM
	Aleric	((I can/will get a visitor in RL anymoment... so I'll have to leave then))
07:09	Oz Linden	I'd like it if people would actually start by discussing changes on the list _before_ createing a Jira issue
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	ok
07:10		for bugs, too, or just for new features?
	Aleric	I noted that on the reviewboard, the link after 'Bugs:' is not a link (ie, https://codereview.secondlife.com/r/167/) the 'OPEN-38' is supposed to be a hyper link to the jira, isn't it?
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-38 OPEN-38 Fixes for viewer-autobuild for standalone
	Oz Linden	I'd really like it if we can keep the number of outstanding issues to a minimum, so that we don't end up where VWR is now...
		it should be ....
07:11		I may need to adjust a setting in reviewboard
	Aleric	I created a jira because basically you asked me to help with autobuild.. so I made the changes needed to build it on my machine and ... then what? Discuss it on the mailinglist?? COme on.
07:12	Wolfpup	i though OPEN was for OpenSource building issues only and not any thing to do with Viewer issues
	Oz Linden	There is an element of judgement on this... if the problem and the fix are obvious, then I don't mind an issue being created immediately
		but that's true much less often than not
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	if only the problem is obvious, but not the fix?
	Oz Linden	Yes, it's only for build related issues, not for viewer functional changes
07:13	Aleric	Visitor arrived
07:14	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	tc, and greet your visitor from us
07:15	Oz Linden	if the problem is obvious but not the fix, it's worth a round of discussion on the list.... often there may be an existing solution you don't know (likely because it's not well documented), and we don't need an issue for those
	Ima Mechanique	wold someone copy/paste me chat history in IM please
07:16	Oz Linden	not to pick on Boroondas, but he filed an issue requesting a way to do parallel builds - which autobuild already supported
		(in a non-obvious way)
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	:-P
07:17	Wolfpup	Oz just so you know the bug in Cmake is related to open-37
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-37 OPEN-37 Autobuld System causes cmake failure in VS2010 OpenSource build environment
	Oz Linden	anyway... I'm not trying to make any hard and fast rule about this... just asking that we first consider discussion on the list. It will often be a short discussion: "This problem happened" followed by "we all agree that's a bug, file an issue"
07:18		so.... let's move on to looking at the open issues in OPEN (in future, we'll only normally look at the Awaiting Review issues, but since that didn't exist before, we'll look at them all)
07:19		http://tinyurl.com/4jj9pk4
		So... open-37
	Wolfpup	and that one i have been working on
07:20	Oz Linden	I'm going to harp on this quite often - that is a completely useless issue summary
		nothing personal, Wolfpup
	Wolfpup	sorry
07:21		was trying to make it a simple summary
	Oz Linden	If I had a failure, that would not provide much of any clue as to whether or not it described my problem
		informative and specific is better than simple
		anyway... the issue
	Cummere Mayo	geh brb gotta go deal with a rz idiot...
	Oz Linden	I gather that this is some kind of path setup problem?
	Wolfpup	there are actualy two bugs that involve the build enrionment
07:22		actualy it involves default settings
		one im going to have to file a bug report with Cmake
	Oz Linden	(also... attach logs to the issue rather than linking to somewhere else for them, I think)
	Wolfpup	those logs are massive
07:23	Oz Linden	Wolfpup.... you're not actually telling us what the problem is (and neither does the issue)
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	do jira attachments have siye limits?
		*size
	Oz Linden	so, do the work to cut out the relevant parts
		yes they do, but I don't know off hand what they are set to for ours
07:24	Wolfpup	Oz the first issue is that Cmake detects the worng linker and fials the testing of the compiler
07:25	Oz Linden	So this is probably only relevant if you have multiple VS versions or editions installed?
	Wolfpup	and this is due to the fact that the default settings in VS2010 has the arangement of the ExicutiablePath in the wrong order
07:26	Oz Linden	I'm going to bounce this one back to your for better description please.
	Wolfpup	the second problem is that Cmake sets /Zm1000 and VS2010 causes out of heap space errors during the build once you correct the pat
07:27	Oz Linden	ok ... put all that in the issue and then we'll be able to review a possible patch
		are you working from my viewer-autobuild2010 repo?
	Ima Mechanique	I think I can add an issue to that
07:28		the generated solution has v100 set as the Platform Tools, which doesn't work if you only have SDK 7.1 installed
	Wolfpup	there is no path as one fix is to edit Microsoft.Cpp.Win32.user and the other is a bug in Cmake its self
	Oz Linden	Note: none of this is the fault of autobuild - autobuild and cmake only do what we configure them to do, so be more specific
07:29	Wolfpup	patch*
	Oz Linden	next: open-23
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-23 OPEN-23 !standalone build error due to missing libfreetype.so. libpangoft2-1.0.so: undefined reference to `FT_Realloc'
	Oz Linden	sorry - open-33
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-33 OPEN-33 Python error running INTEGRATION_TEST_llsdmessage
07:30	Wolfpup	that one for some reason seems to have self corrected at least on my system
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	close, then?
07:31	Wolfpup	i would say yes unless it is showing up in outhers
	Oz Linden	I'd say so
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	well, it can always be re-opened
	Oz Linden	Wolfpup - you should be able to close that, please
		open-36
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-36 OPEN-36 error "COPY_IF_DIFFERENT Macro invoked with incorrect arguments" due to insufficient quoting
07:32	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	this one is due to insufficient quoting where the macro is called
		I also brought this up on the ML
	Oz Linden	I think that I've fixed the reviewboard problem so that you can post a patch there now, Boroondas
	Wolfpup	how should i close it as not repoducable ?
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	ok, will try again
07:33	Oz Linden	either Not Repro or Fixed ... pick one
	Wolfpup	ok
	Oz Linden	if you get the review posted, advance the issue to Reviewing - if not, let me know later and I'll try to sort out the probelm
07:34		skipping OPEN-11 for today - next is: OPEN-40
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-11 OPEN-11 Rename STANDALONE to something better.
		http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-40 OPEN-40 Some viewer unit/integration tests fail if the port they use is otherwise in use
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	(on the ML it's @ https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/opensource-dev/2011-February/005870.html )
07:35	Oz Linden	I created 40 as an umbrella issue
		I'm not sure that we're going to fix the real problem any time soon - that is by creating a general mechanism for tests to find an unused port
07:36		in the mean time, patches to change the fixed port on individual tests to a better one are welcome
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	how about just randomizing ports, so that collisions are unlikely enough?
	Oz Linden	OPEN-30
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-30 OPEN-30 Viewer compiles in Linden "developer" mode -- debug console window appears, other side effects
	Oz Linden	I don't like randomness in tests
07:37		leads to hard-to-repro problems
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	ture
		*true
	Oz Linden	is OPEN-30 really a problem?
07:38	Ima Mechanique	not for me, I kinda expect a debug console
	Jonathan	What is different when running in linden developer mode?
		I know I can delete system folders
		It means that testing the viewer operation is not what a user would see
	Oz Linden	Is this dependent on which configuraiton target (Release, Debug, etc) you use?
07:39	Wolfpup	Oz we need to have a seting the is for VS2010 that is Release with the proper setting to maybe solve that one
	Jonathan	I don't know, as I only have 1 choice currently
		hmm, 1 choice is an oxymoron
07:40	Oz Linden	This is actually exactly the sort of thing that I'd like to see discussed on the list, because it's not clear what the desired behavior is or what the implications are
	Wolfpup	the only setting for VC10 is for RelWithDebInfo and that forces the debug console to be on
07:41	Jonathan	I think the viewers we build should look/act like the ones that someone would end up installing
	Oz Linden	but this was reported against 2005
	Wolfpup	Oz there needs to be a Release Mode
		it is the same
	Oz Linden	There is an OpenSourceRelease
07:42	Wolfpup	as it is affecting VS2010 Opensource builds as well
		Oz Jonathan is useing express and there is only one setting there
07:43		VCExpressRelWithDebInfo
	Oz Linden	I'm going to leave this open for now, but I'd like someone to catalog 1) what is different about developer mode and 2) which configurations default to that mode, and have a discussion about it on the list
		if this is an express issue, then we'll make it part of that issue
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	1) might have to be done by a Linden
07:44	Jonathan	Oz, I think you need to get the team that deals with compiling in on that
	Cummere Mayo	hey oz since the meeting is almost over can I askyou something?
	Oz Linden	Well, the vs2010 changes are still in development....
	Jonathan	the trouble here is taking an internal tool and its assumptions and making it public; some assumptions/changes have to be changed
	Oz Linden	we'll pause for Cummere...
07:45	Wolfpup	Oz i can now get sucessful builds in VS2010 useing atuobuild
	Cummere Mayo	well lets finish up this issue but when were done with it please?
07:46	Jonathan	I have a workaround for this issue so we can proceed -- it just means I have to add another switch to the autobuild command, so let's move on
	Oz Linden	This is no longer an internal tool, and if we need assumptions changed we can do it, but we need the issue spelled out more carefully before we can decide that
	Wolfpup	but they are only in RelWithDebInfo as there is no Release mode build setting as yet
	Oz Linden	understood, Jonathan
		your question, Cummere?
07:48	Cummere Mayo	alright, right now theres a growing push to ditch all LL veiwers because of the fact we have almost zero options for media visibility and selection and people are kinda sick of the fact peopel are getting away with being spied on... any chance we could start seeing some filters like https://bitbucket.org/Sione/snowglobe-1.5-media-filter but for the 2.0 line added into LL's viewer please?
	Oz Linden	not in scope for this meeting
07:49		We may (or may not) be able to discuss that in the Viewer meeting on Wednesday
		open-28
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-28 OPEN-28 libmedia_plugin_webkit.so doesn't find libqgif.so on standalone, all web features defunct
07:50	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	I think I'm the only one suffering from OPEN-28, so it might be specific to my configuration.
		For now, I'm using the LD_LIBRARY_PATH workaround
07:51	Oz Linden	I'm not at all clear on why this is an issue for OPEN... it is not using the standard environment
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	?
	Oz Linden	By the way - everyone _please_ report exactly which hg repo you are testing
07:52	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	what is the standard environment for creating 64bit viewers?
	Oz Linden	we've got 3 important ones going at the moment ... hopefully that number will go back down, but until it does specifying is critical
07:53		there is none, but there is a configuration for Standalone in the autobuild.xml
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	that issue is from before standalone
	Oz Linden	if it needs fixing, we can take patches for it (and I believe Aleric has some)
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	err, from before autobuild
	Oz Linden	sorry - I'm no longer taking changes for pre-autobuild environments at all
07:54	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	oh
		ok
	Oz Linden	and I know that's a pain because the new ones don't work smoothly yet, but that's what we're focused on now - exclusively
		so... would you please adjust this issue accordingly, Boroondas?
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	"don't work smoothly" is an understatement for standalone, sorry
07:55	Oz Linden	yes, I know :-(
		it really had not been tested significantly
07:56		you have to understand... standalone building is allowed only for your benefit, and so you are going to have to make it work - LIndens will spend little or no time on it
		open-25
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-25 OPEN-25 settings.xml not always updated during incremental builds, causing "WARNING: get: Control UpdaterMaximumBandwidth not found." and crash
07:57	Oz Linden	this looks like it shoudl be tractable... do we have a volunteer to hunt down what dependency is needed?
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	this one is pre-autobuild and standalone, too, but I have no reason to believe it doesn't also apply to autobuild and non-standalone
07:58	Oz Linden	it would probably be a great thing to have fixed, and I'm sure you're right about it still applying
07:59		well, it's open....
		open-22
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-22 OPEN-22 Allow choosing between system headers/libraries and LL supplied ones per package
	Oz Linden	This is a complicated one... and I'll leave it open for now, but we need to discuss the general topic on the list
08:00	Office Orb	Your timer has expired!
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	ok
	Oz Linden	autobuild has some incomplete-and-poorly-tested features that were intended to go in this direction
08:01	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	with autobuild, we might want even more options, e.g. fetch and build the LL supplied source of a given dependency etc.
	Oz Linden	right...those are among the alternatives
08:02		But we'll have to pick this up next time.
		thank you all for a useful session
	Ima Mechanique	thank you for having us ;-)