Open Development User Group/Archive/2011-02-23

13:01	Oz Linden	So.... pretty short agenda this week....
		first... the hackathon....
		It was generally successful, but not a perfect result (no surprise there)
13:02		Many dependencies now build with autobuild and with vs2010
		those repos are almost all public, so you can experiment if you like
	draconis.neurocam	Any specifics on which currently fail?
	Oz Linden	there are some more to do, and those are being worked on
13:03		I'm going to put a doc up about that at some point, but I don't trust the data I have enough to do it now
	draconis.neurocam	nods
	Oz Linden	we also have not tested all of those in a viewer built in TeamCity yet
13:04		there are some glitches in TC builds w/ 2010 that are being sorted out
		it looks as though we should be able to merge autobuild by early next week at the latest, but without the 2010 changes
13:05	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	Are 64bit builds supposed to work with the OpenSourceStandAloneRelWithDebInfo configuration or will that need further work?
	Oz Linden	we have not attempted them
13:06	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	wouldnt mind 64bbit win build capibility :P
	Oz Linden	I think we're probably a couple of weeks from being able to throw the switch to 2010, but that's purely a guess
13:07	draconis.neurocam	still a guess that has some good connotations
	Oz Linden	there's a lot of regression testing to do - many of the dependent libs were upgraded to newer versions in the process
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	oh good
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	meh, got disconnected
	Oz Linden	the best news, I think, is that the snowball is far enough down the hill and big enough that no one will try to stop it now :-)
13:08	draconis.neurocam	i agree, from what i hear
	Oz Linden	but there remain a fair number of loose ends to tie up, and we'll resist moving to v-d until they are done
13:09	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	(can someone IM me what was said since "[13:05] Oz Linden: we have not attempted them"? Thx.)
	Oz Linden	You can follow the vs2010 work in jenn_linden/viewer-vs2010
		and integration of that with viewer-autobuild and viewer-development both in oz_linden/viewer-autobuild2010
	Jonathan	Are you going to merge in the work NickyP has been doing?
13:10	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	(Thx, Ima)
	Oz Linden	I'm testing some of Nicky s fixes now... they don't work quite as well for me as advertized, but it's clear he's found the central issue
13:11		So.... at least Very Long Lasting Glory for NickyP !
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	㋡
	Ima Mechanique	I managed a working build too. Did it a bit differently to Nicky
13:12	Oz Linden	hints are welcome (in email or the jira rather than chat)
	Ima Mechanique	okay
	Jonathan	I messed up my HD trying to figure out what parts of the v7 sdk were needed and had to recover from a backup
	Oz Linden	Oh... one other bit of unrelated good news... I got the Macs for the open dev build farm ordered
13:13	Jonathan	Are the other systems already on order/in place? (hurrah!)
	Oz Linden	the first of a number of annoying logistical hurdles, but it's spending money and that's momentum!
	Tonya Souther	yay Macs!
	Oz Linden	the rest of the systems will be EC2, so I don't have to buy them
13:15		I ordered Minis - the cpus are pretty close to what we have in the Pros internally (because the pros are not as new), and they have more RAM, so I think we'll get very good performance
	Tonya Souther	Don't sell the Mini short. not expandable, but perfect for what you're doing. If I had money, I'd buy one for our build engine.
13:16	Oz Linden	Yes, I think they'll do pretty nicely
		Next topic.... STANDALONE
13:17		do we think that we're making progress?
	Ima Mechanique	I think so, the discussion has been good
13:18	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	Lot's of suggestions and quite some considerations which might be good or not.
	Oz Linden	Be warned... once the discussion has converged, the next step will be me asking for a volunteer to actually do the change
13:19		waits for everyone to TP out
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	will be over here...
	Jessica Lyon	I lol'd
	Jonathan	I think Boroondas raised his hand
	Oz Linden	needs a "raise hand" gesture....
13:20	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	Hu? What? Raise hand? I just ansered an IM that came in ....
13:21	Jonathan	Oz, there is a #3 on the agenda now
	Oz Linden	ok, well, so far I agree that the list discussion has been fruitful, so I'm not inclined to kill it off and close the issue. Let's move on
		Where there any interesting results from that code analysis tool that was also used to analyzed the server source?
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	Oh, about volunteers ... well, I don't have much time right now, but if a new name is decided upon, I might commit to doing the change somewhen later.
13:22	Oz Linden	We've run both the viewer and simulator through Coverity
	Jonathan	Did it find anything of interest in the viewer you can mention?
13:23	Latif Khalifa	Coverity results need careful reading, the number of false positive problems it "discovers" is substantial.
	Oz Linden	Like any tool, it produces some gems mixed in with a lot of gravel
		some of the changes Bao just checked in (leak fixes) were from that, I think
	Jonathan	Would it help to have OS people look over that report?
13:24	Oz Linden	Hmmm.... that's a thought.... don't know if our license would allow that..... will have to look into it.
		Tofu used to look at them pretty frequently
13:25	Jonathan	It might also help the TPV people, so they could look at their own code
	Jessica Lyon	^
	Oz Linden	I'm pretty sure there's no way we can run it against code other than ours
13:26	Jonathan	No, but since the bases are close seeing your report might be of help
	Oz Linden	the license is quite expensive
		maybe
13:28		If there are devs looking for problems, I've got some...
	draconis.neurocam	might be of some use to say them, words carry
13:29	Oz Linden	the linux build needs help with building the c-ares lib into it correctly to make name resolution non-blocking
		(I forget the issue #)
13:30	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	and webkit...
	Oz Linden	that's probably a flag or three that needs setting in the various builds
13:32		there was something else that came up this morning....
		rumages in log....
13:34		can't find it
		any other topics?
13:35		Does this mean I get to knock off early and call car dealers?
13:36	Jessica Lyon	lol
	Oz Linden	that's not that much fun....
	Jonathan	Skateboard snowed in?
	Ima Mechanique	no Boroondas is typing
	Oz Linden	very much so, I'm afraid
	Tonya Souther	I thought nobody owned cars in Boston.
	Twisted Laws	I wonder how all these things fit into the goals of the Snowstorm project as written in the wiki... We spend an awful lot of time going over things that work for devs and changing them, but not so much on making the viewer better.
13:37	Oz Linden	Well, my personal mission lately is to reduce the barriers to producing contributions
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	I can't compile tests anymore ... unless for revisions before 1013caf84c2e (which is quite old, so I guess I must have compiled newer versions, before ... dunno what about my system might have changed, or whether it's an issue that doesn't always show on incremental builds.)
	Oz Linden	like antiquated tools and poor integration support
		I don't do incremental builds much
	Twisted Laws	changing things like STANDALONE seem contrary to that tho?
13:38	Oz Linden	well, I didn't bring that one up... but it is confusing...
	Latif Khalifa	autobuild seems to be more difficult to get running
		so at least in that respect the barrier is higher
13:39	Twisted Laws	autobuild seems to lock us into a specific configuration and makes it very difficult for anyone to change
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	well, autobuild is hardly out of alpha
	Ima Mechanique	but that's just teething problems
	Oz Linden	The Snowstorm team has lost some people lately, and that's had some impact on how fast we can review and accept changes
		I think that it's not easy for those of you who have been building viewers for a while to appreciate what a pain it is to get started
13:40	Twisted Laws	if its hardly out of alpha, why are we talking of merging it into viewer-developement next week?
	Oz Linden	and the old method of tracking dependencies was, well, .... not good
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	are we?
	Oz Linden	probably, yes
	Jonathan	Oz said 2-3 weeks earlier
	Oz Linden	no... that was vs2010
13:41		and was a guess ... could be either more or less
	Twisted Laws	and you said, we'd put the 2005 version in...
	Latif Khalifa	Oz, if it took you a week to compile your first viewer, it would probably take two to get autobuild going
	Jonathan	I assumed both would come at once
	Twisted Laws	why not wait till its working on 2010?
	Oz Linden	no, I don't think so Latif
		in fact, I know that our CEO did it in one afternoon
13:42	Latif Khalifa	i did it with the old system too
		but a fair test would be for you to do it ;)
	Ima Mechanique	Latif, it took me over a month to build my first viewer, and less than a week to do so with autobuild
	Tonya Souther	I've held off on autobuild mainly to see how it works when it's ready for primetime with no preconceptions.
	Oz Linden	whether or not we are going to move to autobuild is not negotiable
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	I still haven't built succesfully with autobuild :-\
13:43		But then, with 64bit, my setup might be a bit special.
	Latif Khalifa	You said your personal goal was to reduce the barriers. I feel autobuild increases them is all, not negotiating anythig lol
	draconis.neurocam	i think once linden lab is happy with autobuild enough to use teamcity on it, and do it as a full release, and theres enough documentation, it wont be hard
	Oz Linden	but you're trying to build on a platform that we don't have prebuilds for, right?
13:44	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	yes, unless that has changed recently?
	Oz Linden	no, it has not (and won't)
13:45		autobuild has some areas where it could use improvement... and it's open source, so if they really bug you....
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	Btw., shouldn't autobuild allow me to produce the equivalent of prebuilts locally? I thought that was one of the goals.
	Twisted Laws	Is it possible to post the instructions given to the CEO that allowed him to build a viewer in a day?
13:46	Jonathan	I bet he was not using an Express compiler :)
	Oz Linden	it should, B, but at the moment you have to do them 'manually'.... check out all the projects and build each one
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	ah
		ok
	Oz Linden	and configure each to import the results from the others
	Thickbrick Sleaford	that will be automated at some point?
	Oz Linden	you don't need to do the actual installs from any of them
13:47		ideally, but it's not done now
	Ima Mechanique	/
	Oz Linden	don't know what priority that will get
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	"and configure each to import the results from the others" <<-- are there instructions on how to do that?
	Ima Mechanique	oz is that the 3p-* projects?
	Oz Linden	autobuild edit installable ...
13:48		yes, the 3p-* projects are all the open dependencies, and all are being set up with autobuild
	Ima Mechanique	I couoldn't get them to build with Express. Don't remember why
	Oz Linden	so you won't have to learn how to build each one with its own tooling.. .. just autobuild
		we have not been building with Express, and that will have to be sorted out
13:49		see the notes in open-1
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-1 OPEN-1 autobuild requires custom configurations for use with Visual Studio Express
13:50	Twisted Laws	i'm not buildng with express once we're on 2010... btw, NickyP's instructions did work for me on 2010 pro
	Oz Linden	creating a good abstraction for express vs other editions is tbd, and will probably have to come from open source, so get out your python and polish it up
	Latif Khalifa	lol
		now that's a quote
	Tonya Souther	and if you don't know Python, you should learn it anyway.
	Ima Mechanique	2010 should make that much easier, they use the same builder now
	Oz Linden	Lindens have Pro, so don't wait for us to figure it out
13:51		that's good news Ima
	Ima Mechanique	it's what NickyP and others have been doing over the weekend ;-)
13:52		I built with autobuild on 2010 express, as did NickyP
		BTW there's still and SCP address in aitobuild .xml
	Oz Linden	signs
13:53		I'll hunt it down...
	Ima Mechanique	hope that's a typo, I don't want to know what the sign is otherwise
	Latif Khalifa	isn't it supposed to have those for stuff like kdu and havok?
	Ima Mechanique	google-breakpad for windows
13:54	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	"it"?
13:55	Oz Linden	the google-breakpad should be http
		I'll "remind" whoever checked that in
	Latif Khalifa	hey robin :)
	Robin Cornelius	Hi
	Ima Mechanique	It is for darwin and linux ;-)
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	hi RC
13:56	Ima Mechanique	hi Robin
13:57	Oz Linden	well, I'm going to wrap up work and go call car salesmen.... fun fun :-(
	Ima Mechanique	gl with that
	Oz Linden	see everyone on Monday, if not sooner....
	Twisted Laws	Is it possible to post the instructions given to the CEO that allowed him to build a viewer in a day?
	Office Orb	End transcription
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	tc
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	tc oz