Bug triage/2007-10-23/Transcript

Agenda

[9:59] Daedalus Young: hi Alexa
[10:00] Wyn Galbraith: Morning.
[10:00] Alexa Linden: Good Morning :)
[10:00] Daedalus Young: evening :P
[10:00] Alexa Linden: :P
[10:01] Daedalus Young: hi Benjamin
[10:01] Wyn Galbraith: Morning benjamin
[10:01] Alexa Linden: Hi Benjamin
[10:01] Benjamin Linden: hi all
[10:01] Benjamin Linden: we're having some technical difficulties
[10:01] Benjamin Linden: with Jira
[10:02] Daedalus Young: I notice
[10:02] Saijanai Dagger: hey Benjamin. Sorry, multitasking with ZHa's group meeting
[10:02] Connecting to: in-world Voice Chat...
[10:02] Connected undefined:
[10:02] Benjamin Linden: no problem Sai, it's going to be a few minutes before we get started
[10:02] Roof Doors: Wyn Galbraith is at the door.
[10:02] Daedalus Young: hi Kooky
[10:03] Kooky Jetaime: wheres that damn squirrel?
[10:03] Kooky Jetaime: and morning Ben
[10:03] Wyn Galbraith: does the Squirrel summoning dance.
[10:03] Kooky Jetaime: Alexa too
[10:04] Wyn Galbraith: Alexa is here.
[10:04] Entered chat: range: Squirrel Wood
[10:04] Benjamin Linden: sorry guys we're just trying to get jira up and running
[10:04] Daedalus Young: hi Squirrel
[10:04] Alexa Linden: Hey Squirrel!
[10:04] Kooky Jetaime: I see, was saying hi
[10:04] Benjamin Linden: it's doing a re-indexing
[10:04] Kooky Jetaime: shoot the squirrel!
[10:04] Daedalus Young: hi Aric
[10:04] Kooky Jetaime: hi Aric
[10:04] Alexa Linden: noOoOooO
[10:04] Wyn Galbraith: Tada, z Squirrel!
[10:04] Aric Linden: heya Daedalus
[10:04] Squirrel Wood: yellow
[10:04] Kooky Jetaime: guess no point in trying to log into it then
[10:05] Daedalus Young: it's at 100% for a good while now
[10:05] Benjamin Linden: hey Aric
[10:05] Aric Linden: hi Benjamin
[10:05] Wyn Galbraith: Morning Aric
[10:05] Daedalus Young: and we're back :)
[10:05] Aric Linden: Hi Wyn
[10:05] Benjamin Linden: we're having some jira issues this morning
[10:05] Alexa Linden: wb
[10:05] Daedalus Young: JIRA is back
[10:05] Aric Linden: No? Jira? problems?
[10:05] Aric Linden: I can't believe that.
[10:05] Benjamin Linden: lol
[10:05] Aric Linden: smirks at his own sarcasm
[10:05] Benjamin Linden: ok great thanks Daedalus
[10:06] Wyn Galbraith: They were sweeping the crumbs under the rug.
[10:06] Benjamin Linden: I'm re-running our query right quick to see if anything new jumps out
[10:06] Benjamin Linden: but of course it's going dog-slow
[10:06] Kooky Jetaime: wants to throw Squirrel into the Aperature Science Emergency Incenerator!
[10:06] Aric Linden: k
[10:06] Kooky Jetaime: Just run off last weeks Ben, we got tons we never hit
[10:06] Alexa Linden: Aric, I have all but 3 of your items done from yesterday and the minutes posted
[10:06] Wyn Galbraith: What did Squirrel do?
[10:07] Benjamin Linden: this is the query, fyi
[10:07] Benjamin Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&requestId=10470
[10:07] Aric Linden: I'm going to be multi-tasking
[10:07] Aric Linden: Thanks Alexa. I'm about to go through those and reassign 'em. you done great.
[10:07] Benjamin Linden: yes we can do that Kooky but I wanted to see if there were any patches we wanted to check out
[10:07] Benjamin Linden: looks like there are three pathces
[10:07] Benjamin Linden: patches rather
[10:08] Benjamin Linden: should we take a look at those first, even though they're not on the agenda?
[10:08] Benjamin Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1286
[10:08] Benjamin Linden: Alexa, can you add these to the agenda? you can just grab the number for now and we'll get the details later
[10:09] Alexa Linden: yes
[10:09] Squirrel Wood: Ah. the camera patch ^^
[10:09] Wyn Galbraith: backs that one with a passion.
[10:09] Daedalus Young: Gigs finished it, but as he says:
[10:09] Daedalus Young: "Richard Linden has provided feedback on this patch. He rejected the idea of being able to pan through the focus prim, and also not munging the center. I will add these constraints back in. The center munging one is easy to add back, the no-clip one is pretty hard, but I have some ideas how to do it."
[10:10] Benjamin Linden: yes, I remember seeing some discussion about this on sldev
[10:10] Benjamin Linden: I guess we'll leave it as-is for now since it doesn't sound like it's ready to import
[10:10] Squirrel Wood: I would prefer to not be hindered by prims when zooming... it is quite a pain to have to delink an object and pull the prims apart just to be able to focus on a prim that is hidden or covered by another
[10:11] Alexa Linden: noted
[10:11] Wyn Galbraith: agrees with Squirrel.
[10:11] Benjamin Linden: Squirrel, does that affect how this patch should be designed?
[10:11] Benjamin Linden: I admit to being a little fuzzy on the details
[10:12] Squirrel Wood: rez a prim, make it hollow and then focus on the inner face of it from above. then move the camera down so the outer face is between the focused face and the camera.
[10:12] Squirrel Wood: the camera will spring back to focus the outter face.
[10:13] Wyn Galbraith: When zooming in close it can also cause the camera to spin off and you end up with a view you didn't expect.
[10:13] Benjamin Linden: ah I see
[10:13] Alexa Linden: yup
[10:13] Wyn Galbraith: It's pretty annoying.
[10:13] Benjamin Linden: and you want to be able to inspect the inside
[10:13] Alexa Linden: drives me nuts when building
[10:13] Squirrel Wood: Yes.
[10:14] Wyn Galbraith: Glad I don't get motion sickness.
[10:14] Benjamin Linden: ok
[10:14] Alexa Linden: LOL!
[10:14] Kooky Jetaime: what about if its cut
[10:14] Benjamin Linden: there were some nitpicky details on the sldev discussion
[10:14] Wyn Galbraith: I use a lot of hollow cut and twisted prims.
[10:14] Benjamin Linden: it's the same way
[10:14] Kooky Jetaime: I mean if it snaps back outside on cuts, then why are we patching it?
[10:14] Kooky Jetaime: it sounds like the patch is almost being written for current behaviure?
[10:15] Benjamin Linden: this is very strange, the server is accepting about half of the clicks I make to change the object
[10:15] Daedalus Young: the patch is to allow focus on the hollow side
[10:15] Daedalus Young: now the hollow bit is ignored basically
[10:15] Squirrel Wood: you can zoom in and keep the view focused if the camera is in the cut part.
[10:15] Benjamin Linden: anyway, if you folks want to add your thoughts to the bug (if you haven't already) that would be helpful
[10:15] Wyn Galbraith: Without the camera going snap off to some weird place.
[10:15] Daedalus Young: the camera is not allowed -inside- the prim, no matter if it's hollowed or not
[10:15] Squirrel Wood: but it will spring back if there is an outer section between it and the focus point
[10:16] Benjamin Linden: ok we probably don't need to continue discussing this one here
[10:17] Daedalus Young: agreed
[10:17] Benjamin Linden: if you have further thoughts on it, please add to jira
[10:17] Benjamin Linden: thanks
[10:17] Benjamin Linden: moving on
[10:17] Benjamin Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2807
[10:17] Alexa Linden: adding
[10:18] Daedalus Young: ah yes, I noticed that too
[10:18] Benjamin Linden: so this broke in RC?
[10:18] Benjamin Linden: because it appears to be working in the gold client
[10:19] Daedalus Young: yes, iirc, previous rc it was still working, broke in current one
[10:19] Benjamin Linden: interesting, I'm surprised Jacek did a patch for a regression
[10:19] Benjamin Linden: in any case, I think we should go ahead and import it
[10:20] Alexa Linden: import for testing
[10:20] Kooky Jetaime: Hmm I've seen this issue before myself
[10:20] Alexa Linden: noted
[10:20] Daedalus Young: yes, looks good
[10:20] Kooky Jetaime: though its not happening right now
[10:20] Daedalus Young: yes, it's happening for me now
[10:20] Daedalus Young: only counts my own avatar
[10:21] Daedalus Young: in v 1.18.4
[10:21] Alexa Linden: I'm taking notes and will do importing as I do for Aric's meetings
[10:21] Benjamin Linden: thanks Alexa
[10:21] Alexa Linden: np
[10:21] Benjamin Linden: ok here's next up
[10:21] Benjamin Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2681
[10:21] Alexa Linden: adding
[10:22] Daedalus Young: looks like nothing new since Torley's last comment
[10:22] Benjamin Linden: yes, I wonder if I should ping Matthew on this
[10:23] Benjamin Linden: alright well we'll leave it here for now
[10:23] Alexa Linden: want me to pping him?
[10:23] Alexa Linden: and leave as-is until posted response?
[10:23] Benjamin Linden: sure, that'd be great Alexa
[10:23] Alexa Linden: noted
[10:24] Benjamin Linden: ok let's jump back to our agenda and knock off the remaining bugs from last week
[10:24] Benjamin Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/UI_Agenda
[10:25] Benjamin Linden: first up
[10:25] Benjamin Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1893
[10:25] Kooky Jetaime: VWR-1893
[10:25] Alexa Linden: control-shift-1 in linux places '!' in chat window
[10:25] Kooky Jetaime: Maybe a good one for OS?
[10:26] Daedalus Young: ahh, it's time to get some RL food again
[10:26] Daedalus Young: see you guys later!
[10:26] Benjamin Linden: is anyone here using linux?
[10:26] Kooky Jetaime: I don't have a linux box to test this on
[10:26] Benjamin Linden: thanks Daedalus!
[10:26] Alexa Linden: Bye Daed!
[10:27] Benjamin Linden: Aric, if we import this can your team have a look at it?
[10:27] Aric Linden: Yes, gladly, please assign it to me with a note asking for us to repro
[10:27] Alexa Linden: noted
[10:27] Benjamin Linden: thanks Aric
[10:27] Benjamin Linden: ok next
[10:27] Benjamin Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1930
[10:27] Kooky Jetaime: Ben, while we discuss VWR-1930 can we also touch on VWR-2650 (lower in itinerary) Since these two bugs are definately linked. I didn't quite think 2650 counts as a dupe in and of itself, but maybe you disagree?
[10:27] Alexa Linden: Gesture activation fails to check for conflicting shortcut keys
[10:28] Squirrel Wood: 1930 is not a bug. its by design as the voice gestures take advantage of that behavior
[10:28] Kooky Jetaime: But it was also a change to the "Expected Behavior"
[10:28] Kooky Jetaime: I have gestures set up so that I can add them by folders, and expect the duplicates to be removed, so it broke a bunch for me
[10:28] Squirrel Wood: if you have several gestures active that have the same trigger key or word, one of them will be randomly picked
[10:29] Kooky Jetaime: and call me crazy, but when is "random" good when your dealing with shortcuts?
[10:29] Saijanai Dagger: but is that by design, or juts coincidence?
[10:29] Benjamin Linden: well in the case of the voice gestures random makes sense to make it seem more natural
[10:30] Benjamin Linden: but I'm not sure if that needs to have an impact on the keyboard shortcuts
[10:30] Squirrel Wood: look at the voice gestures. they trigger on /voicelevel1, and /voicelevel3 and there's several that use the same trigger
[10:30] Kooky Jetaime: I don't use voice so I have no experiance with the voice gestures
[10:30] Benjamin Linden: oh Squirrel you're saying the voice gestures use the same trigger
[10:30] Squirrel Wood: Yes
[10:30] Squirrel Wood: there's five or six for voicelebel 1
[10:30] Squirrel Wood: level even
[10:30] Saijanai Dagger: gotta take son to doctor, but updated WIP video: [1]
[10:30] Kooky Jetaime: what are they? gestures that are activated by speach or?
[10:31] Saijanai Dagger: later all
[10:31] Alexa Linden: Bye Saij
[10:31] Kooky Jetaime: by Sai, good luck
[10:31] Benjamin Linden: see ya sai
[10:31] Squirrel Wood: you drag the voice gestures on your avatar and then, when you speak they are triggered
[10:31] Squirrel Wood: depending on the volume
[10:31] Kooky Jetaime: drag them on? so they are a 1 shot per drag or?
[10:31] Saijanai Dagger: /afk
[10:31] Wyn Galbraith: And look like a certain gecko
[10:31] Squirrel Wood: you can either drag them onto the avatar or just activate them. same difference
[10:32] Benjamin Linden: hmm
[10:32] Kooky Jetaime: Well, I've never drug any gesture so.....
[10:32] Alexa Linden: lol
[10:32] Benjamin Linden: we should import this and assign to someone on the voice team to verify if this is by design
[10:32] Kooky Jetaime: dragging a gesture to me doesn't seem intuitive either unless we're all for "drag to activate/use"
[10:33] Kooky Jetaime: and if its by voice design, I suggest undoing it for keyboard shortcuts
[10:33] Benjamin Linden: yes, we should ask if the two need to be dependent
[10:33] Kooky Jetaime: oohh wait, idea.... How about a new checkbox: "Can share trigger" that would allow it to "share" a trigger, and if so, "randomly" share or "simultanious" share
[10:33] Benjamin Linden: Kooky, what would you suggest if there are overlapping gestures
[10:33] Benjamin Linden: haha ok
[10:33] Kooky Jetaime: I say the old way, deactivate duplicate
[10:33] Wyn Galbraith: Doesn't make sense that they are connected.
[10:33] Kooky Jetaime: its a well expected process
[10:34] Squirrel Wood: what about "Hey! There's another gesture with the same trigger! Want to deactivate that one? <yes><no>" ?
[10:34] Benjamin Linden: so if you assign a duplicate shortcut it automatically deactivates the other ones?
[10:34] Squirrel Wood: I would ask the user if it should be deactivated
[10:34] Benjamin Linden: Kooky, did it used to work that way, prior to voice?
[10:34] Kooky Jetaime: because random execution don't work for a lot of things, for example, all my weapons work on gestures, so changing weapons changes gestures but they are all similarly triggered with different executions (so F12 draws my guns on all of them, but they each have their own command)
[10:35] Kooky Jetaime: yes
[10:35] Benjamin Linden: Kooky can you add that comment to these bugs?
[10:35] Kooky Jetaime: If you activated a gesture with an matching trigger, it would deactivate the existing one in favor of the newly activated.
[10:35] Benjamin Linden: Alexa, we should import the Kooky's related bug and link it
[10:35] Benjamin Linden: they both have useful discussion
[10:35] Alexa Linden: noted
[10:35] Benjamin Linden: thanks
[10:36] Benjamin Linden: Kooky please add your thoughts and we'll investigate it
[10:36] Benjamin Linden: ok next up
[10:36] Benjamin Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1953
[10:36] Alexa Linden: After encountering a login error, viewer gets stuck partially loaded
[10:37] Benjamin Linden: gah, this screenshot is taking forever to load
[10:37] Benjamin Linden: I've never seen this particular behavior, have you Aric?
[10:39] Squirrel Wood: I have seen that error a couple times but never that behavior
[10:39] Benjamin Linden: well it does have screenshots I suppose we should go ahead and import
[10:39] Benjamin Linden: please assign to triage, Alexa
[10:39] Alexa Linden: noted
[10:39] Benjamin Linden: ok next
[10:39] Benjamin Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2063
[10:40] Alexa Linden: clicking window X button multiple times behaves strangely
[10:40] Squirrel Wood: f you have "Skip this dialog next time" enabled for the quit confirmation dialog, go into preferences and re-enable the dialog. 1. Click the X button (or equivalent) to close SL. 2. Do it again. And again. Go wild. Results: You get a "ding" every time you click it, and if you click "continue", you're reprompted immediately with another quit dialog. A cosmetic problem, but probably not quite right.
[10:40] Benjamin Linden: I'm not sure I understand
[10:41] Alexa Linden: me neither :P
[10:41] Benjamin Linden: is Lex saying the "are you sure" dialog shows up over and over?
[10:41] Wyn Galbraith: I think it's like this action was already done so don't do it again.
[10:41] Wyn Galbraith: ding
[10:41] Squirrel Wood: basically if you close the quit question dialog by clicking the X in the top right corner of the window, it does not abort properly
[10:41] Benjamin Linden: oh that X
[10:41] Benjamin Linden: I thought he meant the checkbox
[10:41] Squirrel Wood: that's how I understand it
[10:42] Wyn Galbraith: The corner close dialog x, yes.
[10:42] Benjamin Linden: there is no x in that dialog
[10:42] Wyn Galbraith: gets it sometimes on her desktop because it's slow to respond.
[10:42] Benjamin Linden: do you mean on the window?
[10:42] Wyn Galbraith: means window.
[10:42] Benjamin Linden: I'm only seeing the expected behavior, I don't understand what the issue is
[10:43] Wyn Galbraith: I think it's expected too.
[10:43] Benjamin Linden: I clicked the red x in the main SL window
[10:43] Benjamin Linden: I get the confirm to quit dialog
[10:43] Benjamin Linden: hit continue and it goes away
[10:43] Benjamin Linden: am I missing something?
[10:43] Squirrel Wood: try not to hit continue but the corner X of the dialog ?
[10:43] Benjamin Linden: of the dialog or the window?
[10:44] Benjamin Linden: there is no x in the dialog
[10:44] Squirrel Wood: the dialofg
[10:44] Squirrel Wood: hmm
[10:44] Squirrel Wood: then try the window again
[10:44] Squirrel Wood: while die dialog is open
[10:44] Squirrel Wood: the..
[10:44] Benjamin Linden: oh I see
[10:44] Kooky Jetaime: What version of the client is this? it looks older?
[10:44] Benjamin Linden: yeah it pops multiple confirmation dialogs
[10:44] Benjamin Linden: even though the dialog is supposed to be modal
[10:45] Benjamin Linden: we can import this, small priority
[10:45] Benjamin Linden: assign to triage
[10:45] Alexa Linden: noted
[10:46] Benjamin Linden: I'm going to add a quick note to this one that it's more than a cosmetic problem
[10:46] Benjamin Linden: ok next up
[10:46] Benjamin Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2094
[10:46] Alexa Linden: Strange dark box appears and blocks the mouse
[10:46] Squirrel Wood: Daedalus Young - 23/Oct/07 10:14 AM Added JPEG version of attached BMP file. That is a Debug window. Go to Client > Consoles and uncheck Memory :) [ Show »
[10:46] Kooky Jetaime: /oh I know this one
[10:47] Kooky Jetaime: its been present since 1.16
[10:47] Alexa Linden: I read this one too
[10:47] Kooky Jetaime: its Ctrl-Shift-0
[10:47] Alexa Linden: really? I've never experienced it before
[10:47] Kooky Jetaime: its a debug dialog that is blank
[10:47] Squirrel Wood: technically not a bug then
[10:47] Kooky Jetaime: so I'm guessing not a bug, just undocumented feature
[10:47] Benjamin Linden: so someone accidentally opened a debug console?
[10:47] Benjamin Linden: yeah we should close this one
[10:48] Kooky Jetaime: well
[10:48] Kooky Jetaime: maybe its a bug that its blank?
[10:48] Kooky Jetaime: since thats the "Memory Console"
[10:48] Squirrel Wood: wb wyn
[10:48] Alexa Linden: Wyn :) WB
[10:48] Benjamin Linden: kooky how do you know for sure that's what it is?
[10:48] Benjamin Linden: from the size?
[10:48] Kooky Jetaime: Client / Consoles
[10:48] Kooky Jetaime: it says right there
[10:48] Kooky Jetaime: below fast timers
[10:48] Benjamin Linden: oh I see, it's always blank?
[10:48] Kooky Jetaime: yep
[10:49] Benjamin Linden: haha ok
[10:49] Benjamin Linden: well if someone wants to file a bug about that, fine
[10:49] Kooky Jetaime: hahaha sure, wth....
[10:49] Benjamin Linden: we should close this one though
[10:49] Kooky Jetaime: I'll close it out
[10:49] Squirrel Wood: Mayhaps the debug console windows should be rendered with a distinct border around them ?
[10:49] Alexa Linden: ok
[10:49] Kooky Jetaime: then I'll link it to the new bug
[10:49] Benjamin Linden: the debug tools in general don't get as much attention, because their not intended for mainstream users
[10:50] Squirrel Wood: like, an ant trail around the window...
[10:50] Benjamin Linden: I agree they have tons of usability issues Squirrel
[10:50] Wyn Galbraith: LOL Squirrel
[10:50] Benjamin Linden: ok next up
[10:50] Benjamin Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2094
[10:50] Alexa Linden: Sunset Shortcut triggers Beacon Shortcut
[10:51] Benjamin Linden: oops sorry
[10:51] Benjamin Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2651
[10:51] Kooky Jetaime: really easy repro :)
[10:51] Squirrel Wood: Well..
[10:52] Squirrel Wood: keep holding down control, release shift, press shoft again. beacons turn off.
[10:52] Squirrel Wood: shift.. gah. typos.
[10:52] Kooky Jetaime: haha..
[10:52] Kooky Jetaime: interesting Squirrel
[10:52] Kooky Jetaime: hadn't tried that
[10:52] Kooky Jetaime: but I think even with funny key play, this shouldn't be happening
[10:52] Squirrel Wood: besides there is some text at the bottom right corner of the screen while beacons are active
[10:52] Benjamin Linden: are others able to repro this?
[10:53] Benjamin Linden: oh yes I just saw it
[10:53] Squirrel Wood: yes
[10:53] Benjamin Linden: it looks like we have a shortcut overlap
[10:53] Benjamin Linden: control n actually toggles the beacons
[10:54] Kooky Jetaime: but why is Shift-Ctrl-N triggering it?
[10:54] Benjamin Linden: we should import this, it's odd
[10:54] Benjamin Linden: yeah I agree
[10:54] Alexa Linden: triage?
[10:54] Kooky Jetaime: since Ctrl-1 = focus, Shift-Ctrl-1 = Stat bar, and they arn't both executed
[10:54] Squirrel Wood: ctrl-n <= I guess shift is not checked there
[10:55] Benjamin Linden: yes, assign to triage please
[10:55] Alexa Linden: noted
[10:56] Benjamin Linden: oh the next one is Kooky's related bug
[10:56] Benjamin Linden: which we already imported
[10:56] Alexa Linden: yup
[10:56] Benjamin Linden: did it get imported Alexa, I'm not seeing the internal ID
[10:57] Alexa Linden: I'll do them all after the meeting
[10:57] Benjamin Linden: ah ok
[10:57] Alexa Linden: Jira's too slow to make notes and import at the same time :P
[10:57] Benjamin Linden: haha yes
[10:57] Benjamin Linden: we'll finish a little early today
[10:57] Benjamin Linden: ok let's wrap up with that folks
[10:57] Kooky Jetaime: Whoo hoo
[10:57] Benjamin Linden: hmm out of order IMs
[10:58] Benjamin Linden: :-)
[10:58] Squirrel Wood: ^^
[10:58] Kooky Jetaime: Robins
[10:58] Squirrel Wood: confirmed
[10:58] Kooky Jetaime: and another run in with Prokofy
[10:58] Alexa Linden: Thank you everyone! if Jira is nice I'll have everything up in the next hour or so
[10:58] Benjamin Linden: thanks all!
[10:58] Squirrel Wood: I'm not going to waste my time listening to Porky
[10:58] Wyn Galbraith: Thank you.

Bug triage/2007-10-23/Transcript

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