User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2009 02 12

Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:

[17:01]	KFengine3 10.9 Black: Initialized.
[17:01]	KFengine3 10.9 Black whispers: Home set
[17:01]	Sindy Tsure:	hey andrew
[17:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	Ah, that's good if you're hiring people.
[17:01]	Kitto Flora:	Hello Andrew, Gregory
[17:02]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hiya Andrew
[17:02]	Andrew Linden:	hello
[17:02]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hiya Gregory
[17:02]	Gregory Maurer:	hello all
[17:02]	Gregory Maurer:	Is there a 11118?
[17:02]	Sindy Tsure:	yep
[17:02]	Gregory Maurer:	or does it mean http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1118?
[17:03]	Sindy Tsure:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11118
[17:03]	Gregory Maurer:	oh, right
[17:03]	Sindy Tsure:	:)
[17:03]	Andrew Linden:	I don't think I've got any announcements today, except that Simon fixed some texture download bugs in maint-server-7 branch. I think he's mentioned them before.
[17:03]	Morgaine Dinova:	I've always wonder, how large is your Ops teams roughly? Hell of a large farm, but might be highly automated so not many people.
[17:03]	Sindy Tsure:	great, simon!
[17:03]	Kitto Flora:	Goody - afster sharper textures?
[17:03]	Kitto Flora:	faster
[17:03]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hi again Charlette :-)
[17:04]	Andrew Linden:	some of the ops stuff is automated
[17:04]	Charlette Proto:	hi there evryone (thanks Morgaine)
[17:04]	Sindy Tsure:	hiya charlette
[17:04]	Andrew Linden:	I wonder how big the team is... 20 people maybe?
[17:04]	Kitto Flora:	What team?
[17:04]	Sindy Tsure:	ops
[17:04]	Morgaine Dinova:	That's small for the number of servers. Cool, sounds efficient.
[17:05]	Sindy Tsure:	it'd be insane if they had a big mix of hardware and versions..
[17:05]	Andrew Linden:	I think one of the most interesting things about our server setup is that the vast majority of the servers basically reinstall all packages every day
[17:05]	Kitto Flora:	Oh ops team ok
[17:05]	Gregory Maurer:	I'd imagine it would become difficult for alot of people
[17:05]	Gregory Maurer:	*if there were
[17:05]	Andrew Linden:	we're using system-imager for all of the simulator hosts and most of the others
[17:05]	Simon Linden:	Should be some better texture loading, but the biggest fix for that is in the RC viewer already
[17:06]	Sindy Tsure:	most servers reload every day? even to the same version?
[17:06]	Andrew Linden:	each host has a config file in some repository. It looks up its hostname by MAC address to figure out who it is, then uses the config files that map to it.
[17:06]	Morgaine Dinova:	Andrew: you mean you do live migrate to fresh image?
[17:06]	Andrew Linden:	so almost all the hosts have the exact same software installed
[17:06]	Kitto Flora:	Why do servers reinsall all packages every day? Sims I look after go weeks without a restart
[17:07]	Andrew Linden:	debian sarge right now, debian etch is getting rolled out right now
[17:07]	Rex Cronon:	hello everybody
[17:07]	Simon Linden:	We're not doing a restart every day
[17:07]	Simon Linden:	Hi Rex
[17:07]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hi Rex
[17:07]	Andrew Linden:	meanwhile, debian lenny, the newest version, is supposed to be officially released any day now
[17:07]	Rex Cronon:	hiii
[17:07]	Gregory Maurer:	Hi rex
[17:07]	Andrew Linden:	kitto, with debian you don't need to restart the host to reinstall the packages
[17:07]	Andrew Linden:	apt-get install package
[17:08]	Sindy Tsure:	hey rex
[17:08]	Kitto Flora:	Oh - OS upgrade ok
[17:08]	Gregory Maurer:	Just out of curiosity, is there anywhere I can find the hardware info for these servers
[17:08]	Rex Cronon:	this time i checked 10 minutes before loging in, so i had time to download the new rc. usually when i want to log in it say i have to download a new version
[17:08]	Morgaine Dinova:	Do you have live migrate though? Or do sims have to be restarted unavoidably?
[17:09]	Andrew Linden:	when I log into one of our simulator hosts and need a packagge I can just install it (sudo apt-get install gvim, for example)
[17:09]	Andrew Linden:	however, the next day that package is no longer available
[17:09]	Andrew Linden:	unless it was added to the system-image list
[17:09]	Sindy Tsure:	only place i've seen hardware specs talked about is here, greg: http://blog.secondlife.com/2006/10/16/looking-forward-to-class-5/
[17:09]	Kitto Flora:	Humm
[17:09]	Kitto Flora:	dont they keep a decent editor around?
[17:09]	Andrew Linden:	I don't have much info on hand for hardware specs
[17:09]	Morgaine Dinova:	Haha
[17:10]	Andrew Linden:	most of our simulator hosts and other hosts are 1U pizzaboxen, dual-core dual-cpu stuff
[17:10]	Andrew Linden:	some of it is intel, some AMD
[17:10]	Kitto Flora:	Andrew: Do you know anything about this new AV kick/punch greifer tool thats becoming a bit too popular?
[17:11]	Andrew Linden:	sorry, gvim isn't a real debian package. the right package woudl be something like vim-gtk or vim-gui, I think
[17:11]	Charlette Proto:	that is absolutely horrid and it comes from one shop
[17:11]	Andrew Linden:	no kitto, I haven't heard of that yet
[17:11]	Morgaine Dinova:	Oh, so moving to class 5 dropped your electricity bill hugely. Presumably sim pricing was dropped to match. /me ducks ;-)
[17:11]	Kitto Flora:	I was told its private distribution only
[17:12]	Andrew Linden:	hrm... I wonder if the #support team knows about it.
[17:12]	Kitto Flora:	Someones found a loophole in mo-push
[17:12]	Kitto Flora:	I AR'd a guy in Ahern for it, a few days ago
[17:12]	Andrew Linden:	mo-push?
[17:12]	Charlette Proto:	lots of trolls come to Korea 1 wearing it
[17:12]	Gregory Maurer:	Without using invisible prims?
[17:12]	Kitto Flora:	With pictures of the guy in action
[17:12]	Charlette Proto:	yep aher (sewer) is where it started to spread
[17:12]	Kitto Flora:	I could not see anything in show transparent
[17:12]	Gregory Maurer:	well
[17:13]	Gregory Maurer:	I have made prims that don't highlight before
[17:13]	Kitto Flora:	It works in no-rez / no script areas
[17:13]	Kitto Flora:	It appears to be a scripted attachment
[17:13]	Gregory Maurer:	Near a border?
[17:13]	Sindy Tsure:	no script isn't hard to get around..
[17:13]	Andrew Linden:	hrm...
[17:13]	Kitto Flora:	It was near a border yes
[17:13]	Sindy Tsure:	dunno how to do no-rez, tho.. unless you sit on it and drag it over
[17:13]	Kitto Flora:	Ahern WA is all borders
[17:13]	Gregory Maurer:	Linking
[17:14]	Gregory Maurer:	It could dump the avatar into you
[17:14]	Gregory Maurer:	bump
[17:14]	Charlette Proto:	same in Korea
[17:14]	Kitto Flora:	I could not see the offending avatar move noticably toward the hit avatar
[17:15]	Kitto Flora:	Theres a animation - right arm upper-cut
[17:15]	Kitto Flora:	And the 'struck' av gets moved several meters
[17:15]	Charlette Proto:	not animation but a move avatar script
[17:15]	Andrew Linden:	well, I'll try to ask #support to see what they know about it.
[17:15]	Sindy Tsure:	did help->show bumps/hits reveal anything
[17:15]	Kitto Flora:	No
[17:15]	Sindy Tsure:	hi xstorm
[17:15]	Gregory Maurer:	I don't know about how push works over borders (aka push land -> no push land)
[17:16]	Sindy Tsure:	tiny night! hi patty
[17:16]	Rex Cronon:	the show bumps is useless:(
[17:16]	Kitto Flora:	All that area is no-push
[17:16]	Kitto Flora:	Ahern WA has no rez no push no script for many Meteres around
[17:16]	Charlette Proto:	plywood cubes are blind
[17:16]	Object: Hello, Avatar!
[17:17]	Rex Cronon:	sometimes mega chopsticks have uses:)
[17:17]	xstorm Radek:	?
[17:17]	Simon Linden:	I just fixed a bug about show-bumps; you can whack someone with a physical object and the owner is reported, not the person dragging the object around
[17:17]	Charlette Proto:	poor tinies appear to be discriminated against in context of a roundtable talks
[17:17]	xstorm Radek:	whats save our hippos ?
[17:18]	Andrew Linden:	you can raise your chair with PgUp I think
[17:18]	Kitto Flora:	There was an Av in Waterhead last nite, complaining about the 'Kick' version, and looking for any Av shield to protect against it - said so far he'd found none
[17:18]	Charlette Proto:	Hippo OS viewer perhaps
[17:18]	Sindy Tsure:	xstorm: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11118 !!
[17:18]	Gregory Maurer:	Another question that's been on my mind lately... What will become of posJump (llSetPrimitiveParams( [ PRIM_POSITION , < 1.304382E+19 , 1.304382E+19 , 0.0 > , PRIM_POSITION , target_pos , PRIM_POSITION , start_pos , PRIM_POSITION , target_pos ] );)?
[17:18]	Simon Linden:	We should edit this script - pgup doesn't go that far
[17:19]	Andrew Linden:	as I recall posJump is dead, warPos is not dead
[17:19]	Gregory Maurer:	It still works on the 1.26 sims on the beta grid
[17:19]	Andrew Linden:	er... maybe it was that someone claimed posJump is fixed in server-1.26?
[17:19]	xstorm Radek:	so any one know why the stuff in sims are moving ?
[17:19]	Sindy Tsure:	like 'take to the vet' fixed or 'working again' fixed?
[17:19]	Kitto Flora:	Where they going?
[17:20]	xstorm Radek:	drift
[17:20]	Gregory Maurer:	let me check the history on the wiki page
[17:20]	Andrew Linden:	more context on "moving stuff" xstorm?
[17:20]	Andrew Linden:	oh, rotation drift or linear drift?
[17:20]	Kitto Flora:	Havent seen any drift for ages
[17:20]	Sindy Tsure has heard prim drift mentioned a few times on the forums lately
[17:20]	Sindy Tsure:	after not hearing it for like a year
[17:20]	Andrew Linden:	there is a rotation drift problem that I have a fix for, just fixed it yesterday
[17:21]	Andrew Linden:	however the drift I found was very small
[17:21]	xstorm Radek:	ok then thats it
[17:21]	Andrew Linden:	if it isn't a very small rotation drift then perhaps someone has a jira?
[17:21]	Gregory Maurer:	It appears that Soft Linden said posJump will no longer work
[17:21]	Andrew Linden:	I think the number was SVC-15
[17:21]	Gregory Maurer:	"http://wiki.secondlife.com/w/index.php?title=PosJump&diff=next&oldid=95114"
[17:21]	Rex Cronon:	which way do they drift, vertically, horizontally, or both?
[17:22]	Sindy Tsure:	or rotation?
[17:23]	xstorm Radek:	we have prims in Hyde Park London England moving out drom the center of the sim
[17:23]	Andrew Linden:	hrm... the comments in that bug are not decisive
[17:23]	xstorm Radek:	from
[17:23]	Andrew Linden:	someone claims their pieces moved 5 meters
[17:23]	xstorm Radek:	but its like a 0.002 drift
[17:23]	Andrew Linden:	but I have trouble believing they moved that far spontaneously
[17:23]	xstorm Radek:	the sim is restarted every day
[17:23]	Andrew Linden:	linear drift xstorm? xyz position?
[17:24]	Charlette Proto:	there would be visible evidence of drift like 5m so it sounds bogus to me
[17:24]	xstorm Radek:	from center out like there is no grav in the sim
[17:24]	Andrew Linden:	I'll assign that bug to me and comment
[17:25]	Andrew Linden:	currently closed, but there is a small known drift
[17:25]	xstorm Radek:	but the prims are locked even
[17:25]	Sindy Tsure:	are they on or really close to the ground?
[17:25]	xstorm Radek:	so how can a lock prim drift ?
[17:25]	xstorm Radek:	off the ground now
[17:26]	xstorm Radek:	trees and signs and more
[17:26]	Sindy Tsure:	i've seen things appear to drift vs the ground.. a while ago, though. iirc, i thought it was rendering wierdness
[17:26]	Sindy Tsure:	..in height
[17:26]	Kitto Flora:	Anyone been editing land in the area?
[17:26]	xstorm Radek:	so every day i move them all back down
[17:27]	xstorm Radek:	i hope not
[17:27]	Charlette Proto:	precission of rotations has always been a prob onless the angles are round fractions of radians for what i know
[17:27]	Andrew Linden:	there is another "bug" of sorts that can cause the ground to move slightly.
[17:27]	Kitto Flora:	If you edit land up past the prim, it may force the prim 'out of the ground'
[17:27]	Simon Linden:	Does this happen without a region restart?
[17:27]	xstorm Radek:	hhhmmm gound moving ?
[17:27]	Andrew Linden:	and then there is a rotation precision problem from limitations in the UI
[17:27]	xstorm Radek:	no it seems only when the sim restarts
[17:27]	Sindy Tsure:	if it's the same object that keeps moving and you have mod perms, maybe add a script that checks the position once an hour or so?
[17:28]	Andrew Linden:	does burying the prim in the ground really move it up? I thought that if you bury it deep enough it just gets returned
[17:28]	Kitto Flora:	Dunno how to bury deep
[17:28]	xstorm Radek:	yes even in the ground they move
[17:28]	Charlette Proto:	just set Z to burry it
[17:29]	Kitto Flora:	If you edit a prim - move it down - its sticks at the ground surface
[17:29]	Kitto Flora:	Charlette: Last I saw it just wont obey your edit entry
[17:29]	Andrew Linden:	well, find the relevant jira and add your reproduction recipe in the comments
[17:29]	Andrew Linden:	then ping me about the jira number
[17:29]	xstorm Radek:	is there a way to find out if some one is messing with a sim ?
[17:29]	Kitto Flora:	Whether one can edit the land UP and bury deep - havent tried that
[17:30]	Andrew Linden:	what kind of "messing" xstorm
[17:30]	xstorm Radek:	moving settings or moving prims ?
[17:30]	Sindy Tsure:	private island or mainland?
[17:30]	xstorm Radek:	Hyde Park London England is a island
[17:30]	xstorm Radek:	a welcome place
[17:31]	Charlette Proto:	in some sims the surface is well above 0m so there may be leaway there eg terraforming mesh is very rough and may be rounded off at times
[17:31]	Andrew Linden:	there are some logs about who is messing with the terrain
[17:31]	Charlette Proto:	precisely
[17:31]	Andrew Linden:	moving objects around does not necessarily produce any logs, but rezzing objects does
[17:31]	Kitto Flora:	A sim settings change log would be useful
[17:32]	xstorm Radek:	i will have debs ask for that data
[17:32]	Kitto Flora:	I manage a sim where the owner swears 'some one is messing with the settings' ... and theres no way to tell
[17:32]	Andrew Linden:	hrm... "messing" with the estate or region settings?
[17:32]	Kitto Flora:	Yes andrew - either
[17:32]	Andrew Linden:	those may be logged. I'm not sure. I'd have to go examine the code.
[17:32]	Kitto Flora:	But if its only a console message - no good to us
[17:32]	Andrew Linden:	If not, they probably should be logged.
[17:33]	Andrew Linden makes a note
[17:33]	Kitto Flora:	Needs like a transaction history
[17:33]	Sindy Tsure:	that could get big quickly..
[17:33]	Kitto Flora:	Last 24 hours or so
[17:33]	Sindy Tsure:	er.. for the land map changes
[17:34]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... we definitely don't keep a history of changes in simulator memory, but that might not be too hard.
[17:34]	Kitto Flora:	Certainly one of the sims I look after suddenly lost all its region managers, and the 'no access if age not verified' flag got turned on
[17:35]	Sindy Tsure:	i think estate managers would find that useful, andrew
[17:35]	Andrew Linden:	yes I think it would be useful
[17:36]	Andrew Linden:	Cg Linden was just telling me about some of the pain our own #support team is experiencing -- they can't get much developer love for features that woudl help them out or reduce their workload
[17:36]	Andrew Linden:	I'm thinking maybe I should set up a semi-regular meeting with some of them so they can submit their requests directly to me
[17:37]	Brie Janick:	hello
[17:37]	Andrew Linden wonders if he would even have time to spare...
[17:37]	Rex Cronon:	hi
[17:37]	Patty1 Rosca:	hi Brie
[17:37]	xstorm Radek:	Brie welcome
[17:37]	Sindy Tsure:	we have a similar problem at my rl work.. i think it's probably common at lots of companies
[17:37]	Kitto Flora:	Did anyone come up with ideas about best new llFunctions to add?
[17:37]	Brie Janick:	ive lost voice x just relogging 2 secs
[17:37]	Brie Janick:	brb
[17:37]	Sindy Tsure:	llParcelSay, kitto!
[17:37]	Andrew Linden:	we're not using voice Brie
[17:37]	Sindy Tsure:	hi brie
[17:37]	xstorm Radek:	Brie knows of all the drifting in Hyde Park London England
[17:37]	Gregory Maurer:	llCreateTime(float time);
[17:38]	Sindy Tsure:	llPaySindy ?
[17:38]	Kitto Flora:	I suggest two 0 having thought about it:
[17:38]	xstorm Radek:	drats
[17:38]	Andrew Linden:	oh right, llParcelSay would only propagate on the parcel
[17:38]	Kitto Flora:	1) llUnsitPos(<...>)
[17:38]	xstorm Radek:	she crashed
[17:38]	Andrew Linden:	but... a parcel might include two totally distinct pieces on opposite corners of the region
[17:38]	Patty1 Rosca:	*:::* WELCOME BACK *:::*
[17:38]	Patty1 Rosca:	Brie
[17:38]	Brie Janick:	hi everyone
[17:38]	Brie Janick:	ty
[17:38]	Kitto Flora:	Lack has been a problem for so long
[17:38]	Kitto Flora:	And work arounds are all expensive
[17:39]	Charlette Proto:	llSetPrimFaceText(string, color, font, size, etc)
[17:39]	Brie Janick:	nice to meet you all
[17:39]	Andrew Linden:	would llParcelSay reach objects from one part of the parcel to the other, despite the distance?
[17:39]	Rex Cronon:	hi again
[17:39]	Sindy Tsure:	there's a jira for llparcelsay, andrew.. one of the comments was that it should take a bool to say if the chat should go to unconnected parcels
[17:39]	Gregory Maurer:	What about allowing llRegionSay on channel 0 for estate owner/manager?
[17:39]	Sindy Tsure:	or maybe it was if it should go to all land owned by the same group..
[17:39]	Andrew Linden:	oy, that little bool just killed the project ;-)
[17:39]	Sindy Tsure:	no!
[17:39]	Charlette Proto:	we really need programable text on prims to save uploading of textures used to make posters and stuff (prices etc0
[17:39]	Sindy Tsure:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1224 is the llParcelSay one
[17:40]	Kitto Flora:	The second one is a way to read 'Pending DOwnloads' from the Stats Panel. int llGetPendingDownloads() ?
[17:40]	Rex Cronon:	i have a good one llObjectSay(uuid obj, string txt)
[17:40]	Andrew Linden:	ah, text on prim surface
[17:40]	xstorm Radek:	you can put ascii on peims
[17:40]	Andrew Linden:	how does that one work Rex?
[17:40]	Charlette Proto:	absolutely critical to commerce Andrew
[17:40]	Kitto Flora:	The reason for that is to disable vendows when the Asset Server has problems
[17:40]	xstorm Radek:	and you can put a webpage on a prim
[17:40]	Andrew Linden:	llObjectSay() goes directly from one object to another... does it span region boundaries?
[17:40]	Rex Cronon:	sends a txt msg to only one object
[17:40]	Sindy Tsure:	object/object communciations
[17:40]	Charlette Proto:	webpage is very resource heavy
[17:41]	Sindy Tsure:	regex filters for listen/chat is a common suggestion
[17:41]	Rex Cronon:	at least in same sim
[17:41]	Morgaine Dinova:	Yes, pure text is really poorly supported. You'd think we could write text natively on prims, without ourselves munging textures
[17:41]	Rex Cronon:	svg on prims:)
[17:41]	Sindy Tsure:	custom damping for llmovetotarget would be great.. i started coming to these meetings to push for that.. :)
[17:41]	xstorm Radek:	ok what about a plot map on the prim ?
[17:41]	Andrew Linden:	btw, if you know of any jira that mention these wish-list function calls please paste them into text for posterity
[17:42]	Andrew Linden:	(so I can find them more easily later)
[17:42]	Gregory Maurer:	there is the list on the wiki
[17:42]	Charlette Proto:	text would be used in many ways even the current HUDs could use for UI
[17:42]	Sindy Tsure:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1479 - llMoveToTarget with custom damping
[17:42]	Andrew Linden:	paste the wiki link Gregory
[17:42]	Gregory Maurer:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LSL_Useful_Function_WishList
[17:42]	Andrew Linden:	thanks Sindy
[17:42]	Sindy Tsure:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-791 - llListenRegex
[17:42]	Andrew Linden:	Ah, excellent Gregory
[17:42]	Rex Cronon:	if svg on prim was possible, than we could really have witheboards:)
[17:43]	Sindy Tsure:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-713 - meta issue for new lsl comms stuff
[17:43]	Kitto Flora:	Is the present problem with llMoveToTarget() being exponential due to that it simply uses the PID controller, Anderw?
[17:43]	xstorm Radek:	is that not just prims ?
[17:43]	Sindy Tsure:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-301 - meta issue for new lsl stuff in general
[17:43]	Simon Linden:	Kitto - what do you mean by that problem?
[17:44]	Kitto Flora:	Sorry
[17:44]	Andrew Linden:	PID controller?
[17:44]	Kitto Flora:	I mean llSetPos() - that moves in jerks
[17:44]	Morgaine Dinova:	In this new MMOX workgroup we have at the IETF, we'll be looking at extensible protocols, so SVG will definitely be on the table. As well as hierarchical objects.
[17:44]	xstorm Radek:	yes thats prims
[17:44]	Andrew Linden:	llSetPos() is actually instantaneous on the server, but the client does a little interpolation magic
[17:44]	Kitto Flora:	You no grok PID controller?
[17:44]	Andrew Linden:	no, you'll have to explain PID controller to me./
[17:45]	Kitto Flora:	Ah ok ANdrew
[17:45]	Kitto Flora:	Its a servo-loop system
[17:45]	Charlette Proto:	does that explain anything Kitto?
[17:45]	xstorm Radek:	prims like the ones that say {Connect} can make prim trash
[17:45]	Andrew Linden:	ok, so if I had taken a course in robotics I would recognize the term?
[17:46]	xstorm Radek:	and is not good for lagy sims
[17:46]	Kitto Flora:	But if SetPos() is instant with the the client smoothing - OK - I see where the problems with fixing it would be
[17:46]	Gregory Maurer:	Temp
[17:46]	Gregory Maurer:	Is that why there is a 0.2 sec delay? or part of the reason
[17:46]	Kitto Flora:	Er - study control systems - yes
[17:46]	Andrew Linden:	oh right... I just rememberd my ideas for smooth-movable static objects (one of my favorite ideas since Havok4)
[17:46]	Sindy Tsure:	i think they put the delay in on anything that might be abused and cause bad lag
[17:47]	xstorm Radek:	can you not do a plot mesh script ?
[17:47]	Gregory Maurer:	Its fairly easy to use child scripts to get around it
[17:47]	Andrew Linden:	xstorm, you mean a sort of animation movement sequence? That sorta overlaps with my ideas.
[17:47]	Kitto Flora:	Seems that one would have to break down the moves into frame-by-frame steps, the step size being distance x speed / frametime.
[17:47]	xstorm Radek:	yes
[17:48]	Kitto Flora:	Then the client would smooth it nicely
[17:48]	Andrew Linden:	yeah... but it would be nice to be able to save a sequence of moves to some data object, and then be able to invoke various data objects
[17:49]	Andrew Linden:	well, I don't think I'll tackle that right away, but it is always fun to think about.
[17:49]	Kitto Flora:	Hah - yeah but I might. These days I work on OpenSIm.
[17:49]	Sindy Tsure:	it'd be great to be able to do scripted movement without having to do physics stuff
[17:49]	Sindy Tsure:	*smootly
[17:49]	Kitto Flora:	and the vehicle stuff is a lot more difficult
[17:50]	Andrew Linden:	ok, I'm going to try to revisit those links later
[17:50]	Andrew Linden:	we've got about 10 more minutes. Anyone have last minute questions/issues that they have been saving for last?
[17:51]	Kitto Flora:	Andrew: Is anyone likely to care about this latest griefing problem?
[17:51]	Sindy Tsure goes off on a bit of a tangent.. somebody asked if i could get opinions on what people thought of sl easter eggs.. like the hippos in http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11118
[17:51]	Gregory Maurer:	Invest in renewable hippos
[17:51]	Andrew Linden:	Yes Kitto, I care... sorta.
[17:51]	xstorm Radek:	can there be a inworld blog board so we can read inside SL
[17:52]	Andrew Linden:	Sorta in the sense that I cringe at the idea of needing to fit yet another emergency into my schedule
[17:52]	Rex Cronon:	kitto,, u need to have an AR party:)
[17:52]	Patty1 Rosca:	LOL
[17:52]	Patty1 Rosca:	lol
[17:52]	Andrew Linden:	but if you have an offending object, or know of the details about a grief event, I can probably find some time to investigate
[17:52]	Andrew Linden:	what I need is avatar name, region, and approximate time of event
[17:53]	Charlette Proto:	llMoveAgentJoint(joint limb/part, vector rotateby) or position to animate avatars without animation files (is that possible)
[17:53]	Andrew Linden:	then I would go into the logs and see what I can figure out
[17:53]	Andrew Linden:	grab assets and examine the objects involved
[17:53]	Kitto Flora:	I can try to get the object - I already did .. so far its like trying to get U238
[17:53]	Kitto Flora:	Av name region and time I can get
[17:53]	Andrew Linden:	if you know owner and location I can probably find the object
[17:53]	Andrew Linden:	send me an email, or IM when I'm offline
[17:54]	Rex Cronon:	an AR party is when u invite everybody u know to abuse a specifc person
[17:54]	Kitto Flora:	But - at the rate you get IMs - its gonna be 12 hours stale
[17:54]	Andrew Linden:	(whichis most of the time;-)
[17:54]	xstorm Radek:	i may have to do up a test recording prim in the sim
[17:54]	Rex Cronon:	to abuse report*
[17:54]	Andrew Linden:	yes, but the 12hours stale is not too stale
[17:54]	Kitto Flora:	OK
[17:54]	Brie Janick:	Hi feebs you know JohnnyD Posthorn hes an ass i have banned him from london. he rezzed a phone box in the club got 2 people to have sex for a photo shoot and broadcatsed you gave him permisson i said no i dont think so He was told to stop told clive to go fuck him self and was rude and disgusting. the 2 people having sex one compleyt naked refused to stop i ejected the 2 people having sex . johnny was rude and gae ma mouthful in im , hes been ar by me and clive
	[01:10:47] brie janick says: and hes not to come back here hes asked fr his things to be retured , he did this with 31 people in the club all horrified at what they wee doing wanted to let you know and he also saying to everyon debs gave him permisson
	[01:11:03] brie janick says: hes disgusting and nasty man
[17:54]	Brie Janick:	shit
[17:54]	Brie Janick:	sorry
[17:54]	Brie Janick:	error
[17:54]	Brie Janick:	oops
[17:55]	Brie Janick:	lol
[17:55]	Brie Janick:	was an ar i just did
[17:55]	xstorm Radek:	?
[17:55]	Kitto Flora:	care to post your password too?
[17:55]	xstorm Radek:	its ok Brie
[17:55]	Brie Janick:	thats why i am here really
[17:55]	Brie Janick:	to ask for some advise
[17:55]	Andrew Linden:	ask
[17:55]	Brie Janick:	as some know Our OI went live
[17:55]	Brie Janick:	we are having issues with vampires and grifers galore
[17:56]	Brie Janick:	in the last hour ive banned and ejected 6 people alone
[17:56]	Brie Janick:	we had some who crashed one of or sims 2 hours agai
[17:56]	Kitto Flora:	Late nights (when the Lindens are asleep) I go around the WAs seeing what stoppids are up to
[17:56]	Brie Janick:	ago
[17:56]	Kitto Flora:	(Stupids)
[17:56]	Brie Janick:	we are struggling to stop this i cannot give everyone eject righst its not possible
[17:56]	Morgaine Dinova:	Sex is really disgusting, I think all sex should be banned. In fact, everything should be banned except milk, fish and catnip.
[17:57]	Charlette Proto:	Brie you should visit Korea, just to feel you are not alone
[17:57]	Kitto Flora:	Oh yeah - griefers can still drive sims down to TD of 0.02
[17:57]	Brie Janick:	they rezzed a phone box in a club with 31 people jut now
[17:57]	Charlette Proto:	hehe Morgaine
[17:57]	Kitto Flora:	and with no visible prims
[17:57]	Brie Janick:	they dropped something that rezzed and caused everyone to become like robots we could move or tp
[17:57]	Brie Janick:	its getting worse
[17:57]	Brie Janick:	we are a target now
[17:58]	Morgaine Dinova:	Well it's true that LL is not providing adequate anti-grief controls.
[17:58]	Andrew Linden:	well Brie, it is tough. The timeline at which I can help is long. Even if I fix a bug or plug a grief mode today, it won't get deployed for a month or more
[17:58]	Gregory Maurer:	last q: will posJump will definitely be removed?
[17:58]	Charlette Proto:	Korea 1 is a target too
[17:58]	Brie Janick:	today has been like a full moon
[17:58]	Rex Cronon:	brie, do u know anybody that is a mentor?
[17:58]	xstorm Radek:	its the same group thats making problems in korea1 , waterhead and the pond
[17:58]	Andrew Linden:	when it comes to best pratices and workarounds given our current feature set... it is probably best to ask other estate owners honestly
[17:58]	Brie Janick:	me
[17:58]	Charlette Proto:	we had a dude who crashed the sime eight times in a row
[17:58]	Brie Janick:	and a good team
[17:58]	Andrew Linden:	or else to approach #support
[17:59]	Brie Janick:	yes
[17:59]	Morgaine Dinova:	Crashing the sim is definitely in Andrew's area --- supply details! :-)
[17:59]	Brie Janick:	but its hard as of time zones aswell
[17:59]	Brie Janick:	yes we had 51 people on the sim at the time
[17:59]	Kitto Flora:	I see a lot of new sims that are set up badly. And owners that dont understand the problems they are headed for
[17:59]	Andrew Linden:	yes, I'm interested in reports of crashes. region names and times are required
[17:59]	Morgaine Dinova:	Andrew: do you get adequate feedback for what causes a sim to crash when it does?
[17:59]	Andrew Linden:	best to report crashes that are not older than 7 days
[18:00]	Andrew Linden:	Morgaine, I've got logs and a core-dump when a region crashes
[18:00]	Brie Janick:	we are Ar ing people left right and centre but we found some people who were ejcted were able to come back only option was for me to estate ban
[18:00]	Morgaine Dinova:	kk
[18:00]	Andrew Linden:	oh, and a simstate containing all objects at the crash
[18:00]	Kitto Flora:	Dont a sim tell anyon when it crashes?
[18:00]	Kitto Flora:	Like message to Andrew?
[18:00]	Andrew Linden:	yes kitto, but we've got a level of constant crashes
[18:00]	Brie Janick:	are there any plans to tackle the vamps
[18:01]	Brie Janick:	in no biting zones
[18:01]	Andrew Linden:	and we collect the server crash reports
[18:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	Really need something higher level than a core dump, although need the core dump to see the actual code bug yeah.
[18:01]	Andrew Linden:	some of the existing crash modes have been fixe, but not yet deployed (that month+ I was talking about)
[18:01]	Simon Linden:	We have a pretty good system that collects the crash reports, and let's us find the common or frequent crashes
[18:01]	Brie Janick:	okay
[18:01]	Rex Cronon:	brie, u need to get everybody u know to fileAR
[18:01]	Andrew Linden:	some of the others are hard to fix
[18:01]	Charlette Proto:	SpiN Wezzog (so confident he was 2006 resident now deleted) would say BRB and crash the sim also used alts: Derik Biedermann David3645 Amat LaLa Porta
[18:01]	Brie Janick:	i do i am very strict on warn if not ar and ban
[18:01]	Kitto Flora:	So why do you need us to tell you about a sim crash?
[18:01]	xstorm Radek:	i had 5 crash to day
[18:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	Oh, automatic collation of bug areas? That sounds useful.
[18:02]	Gregory Maurer:	I remember hearing a rumor about someone who rezzed a ton of objects and immediately crashed sims (regardless of no rez) ... but its a rumor, like "RADAR FREE V4"
[18:02]	Andrew Linden:	kitto, because I normally don't spend my time examining crashes. When a known recipie for crash goes into jira I will usually get it and fix it sooner if I can
[18:03]	Sindy Tsure:	i find griefers are less likely to come back if i just punt them.. the more you talk/argue with them or freeze them so that people can AR, the more likely they are to come back
[18:03]	Andrew Linden:	some crash modes are so hard to fix we have to revert to banning the responsible objects until we can actually fix them
[18:03]	Sindy Tsure:	just punt 'em and move on, if you can
[18:03]	xstorm Radek:	yes they can do that i have seen them do it
[18:03]	Brie Janick:	was stranag some rezzzed an object yet they had no tag to enable rezzing
[18:03]	Simon Linden:	It's also good to hear from people about what's causing them pain -- helps us figure out priorities
[18:03]	Brie Janick:	they were able to do it
[18:03]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, I've got to go soon.
[18:03]	Simon Linden:	Brie - so the parcel was set to no-rez?
[18:03]	Charlette Proto:	bye Andrew
[18:03]	Brie Janick:	last week someone rezzed something and threw me of my feet i managed to grab it and eject him
[18:03]	xstorm Radek:	thank you Andrew for your time
[18:04]	Kitto Flora:	OK, let me put it anothe rway: If I am i na sim that crashes - what Info can I supply you with in an IM that is not already available in the automatic system?
[18:04]	Brie Janick:	ty Andrew
[18:04]	Sindy Tsure:	oh.. one more.. http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-835 - top scripts on parcel for mainland dwellers
[18:04]	Patty1 Rosca:	bye andrew
[18:04]	Rex Cronon:	bye andrew
[18:04]	Gregory Maurer:	bye
[18:04]	Sindy Tsure:	and a way to find out who's driving my active scripts count up over 10k!
[18:04]	xstorm Radek:	thank you Simon
[18:04]	Sindy Tsure:	cya, aandrew!
[18:04]	Sindy Tsure:	*-a
[18:04]	Simon Linden:	Kitto - time and place is pretty much it, with that we can find the report and crash dump
[18:04]	Sindy Tsure:	and simon
[18:04]	Sindy Tsure:	cya, all
[18:04]	Morgaine Dinova:	Cya Andrew :-)
[18:04]	Kitto Flora:	OK
[18:04]	Kitto Flora:	Byebye andrew
[18:04]	Morgaine Dinova:	Cya Simon :-)
[18:05]	Simon Linden:	Thanks everyone for coming