User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2009 02 12
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Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:
| [17:01] | KFengine3 10.9 Black: Initialized. | |
| [17:01] | KFengine3 10.9 Black whispers: Home set | |
| [17:01] | Sindy Tsure: | hey andrew |
| [17:01] | Morgaine Dinova: | Ah, that's good if you're hiring people. |
| [17:01] | Kitto Flora: | Hello Andrew, Gregory |
| [17:02] | Morgaine Dinova: | Hiya Andrew |
| [17:02] | Andrew Linden: | hello |
| [17:02] | Morgaine Dinova: | Hiya Gregory |
| [17:02] | Gregory Maurer: | hello all |
| [17:02] | Gregory Maurer: | Is there a 11118? |
| [17:02] | Sindy Tsure: | yep |
| [17:02] | Gregory Maurer: | or does it mean http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1118? |
| [17:03] | Sindy Tsure: | http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11118 |
| [17:03] | Gregory Maurer: | oh, right |
| [17:03] | Sindy Tsure: | :) |
| [17:03] | Andrew Linden: | I don't think I've got any announcements today, except that Simon fixed some texture download bugs in maint-server-7 branch. I think he's mentioned them before. |
| [17:03] | Morgaine Dinova: | I've always wonder, how large is your Ops teams roughly? Hell of a large farm, but might be highly automated so not many people. |
| [17:03] | Sindy Tsure: | great, simon! |
| [17:03] | Kitto Flora: | Goody - afster sharper textures? |
| [17:03] | Kitto Flora: | faster |
| [17:03] | Morgaine Dinova: | Hi again Charlette :-) |
| [17:04] | Andrew Linden: | some of the ops stuff is automated |
| [17:04] | Charlette Proto: | hi there evryone (thanks Morgaine) |
| [17:04] | Sindy Tsure: | hiya charlette |
| [17:04] | Andrew Linden: | I wonder how big the team is... 20 people maybe? |
| [17:04] | Kitto Flora: | What team? |
| [17:04] | Sindy Tsure: | ops |
| [17:04] | Morgaine Dinova: | That's small for the number of servers. Cool, sounds efficient. |
| [17:05] | Sindy Tsure: | it'd be insane if they had a big mix of hardware and versions.. |
| [17:05] | Andrew Linden: | I think one of the most interesting things about our server setup is that the vast majority of the servers basically reinstall all packages every day |
| [17:05] | Kitto Flora: | Oh ops team ok |
| [17:05] | Gregory Maurer: | I'd imagine it would become difficult for alot of people |
| [17:05] | Gregory Maurer: | *if there were |
| [17:05] | Andrew Linden: | we're using system-imager for all of the simulator hosts and most of the others |
| [17:05] | Simon Linden: | Should be some better texture loading, but the biggest fix for that is in the RC viewer already |
| [17:06] | Sindy Tsure: | most servers reload every day? even to the same version? |
| [17:06] | Andrew Linden: | each host has a config file in some repository. It looks up its hostname by MAC address to figure out who it is, then uses the config files that map to it. |
| [17:06] | Morgaine Dinova: | Andrew: you mean you do live migrate to fresh image? |
| [17:06] | Andrew Linden: | so almost all the hosts have the exact same software installed |
| [17:06] | Kitto Flora: | Why do servers reinsall all packages every day? Sims I look after go weeks without a restart |
| [17:07] | Andrew Linden: | debian sarge right now, debian etch is getting rolled out right now |
| [17:07] | Rex Cronon: | hello everybody |
| [17:07] | Simon Linden: | We're not doing a restart every day |
| [17:07] | Simon Linden: | Hi Rex |
| [17:07] | Morgaine Dinova: | Hi Rex |
| [17:07] | Andrew Linden: | meanwhile, debian lenny, the newest version, is supposed to be officially released any day now |
| [17:07] | Rex Cronon: | hiii |
| [17:07] | Gregory Maurer: | Hi rex |
| [17:07] | Andrew Linden: | kitto, with debian you don't need to restart the host to reinstall the packages |
| [17:07] | Andrew Linden: | apt-get install package |
| [17:08] | Sindy Tsure: | hey rex |
| [17:08] | Kitto Flora: | Oh - OS upgrade ok |
| [17:08] | Gregory Maurer: | Just out of curiosity, is there anywhere I can find the hardware info for these servers |
| [17:08] | Rex Cronon: | this time i checked 10 minutes before loging in, so i had time to download the new rc. usually when i want to log in it say i have to download a new version |
| [17:08] | Morgaine Dinova: | Do you have live migrate though? Or do sims have to be restarted unavoidably? |
| [17:09] | Andrew Linden: | when I log into one of our simulator hosts and need a packagge I can just install it (sudo apt-get install gvim, for example) |
| [17:09] | Andrew Linden: | however, the next day that package is no longer available |
| [17:09] | Andrew Linden: | unless it was added to the system-image list |
| [17:09] | Sindy Tsure: | only place i've seen hardware specs talked about is here, greg: http://blog.secondlife.com/2006/10/16/looking-forward-to-class-5/ |
| [17:09] | Kitto Flora: | Humm |
| [17:09] | Kitto Flora: | dont they keep a decent editor around? |
| [17:09] | Andrew Linden: | I don't have much info on hand for hardware specs |
| [17:09] | Morgaine Dinova: | Haha |
| [17:10] | Andrew Linden: | most of our simulator hosts and other hosts are 1U pizzaboxen, dual-core dual-cpu stuff |
| [17:10] | Andrew Linden: | some of it is intel, some AMD |
| [17:10] | Kitto Flora: | Andrew: Do you know anything about this new AV kick/punch greifer tool thats becoming a bit too popular? |
| [17:11] | Andrew Linden: | sorry, gvim isn't a real debian package. the right package woudl be something like vim-gtk or vim-gui, I think |
| [17:11] | Charlette Proto: | that is absolutely horrid and it comes from one shop |
| [17:11] | Andrew Linden: | no kitto, I haven't heard of that yet |
| [17:11] | Morgaine Dinova: | Oh, so moving to class 5 dropped your electricity bill hugely. Presumably sim pricing was dropped to match. /me ducks ;-) |
| [17:11] | Kitto Flora: | I was told its private distribution only |
| [17:12] | Andrew Linden: | hrm... I wonder if the #support team knows about it. |
| [17:12] | Kitto Flora: | Someones found a loophole in mo-push |
| [17:12] | Kitto Flora: | I AR'd a guy in Ahern for it, a few days ago |
| [17:12] | Andrew Linden: | mo-push? |
| [17:12] | Charlette Proto: | lots of trolls come to Korea 1 wearing it |
| [17:12] | Gregory Maurer: | Without using invisible prims? |
| [17:12] | Kitto Flora: | With pictures of the guy in action |
| [17:12] | Charlette Proto: | yep aher (sewer) is where it started to spread |
| [17:12] | Kitto Flora: | I could not see anything in show transparent |
| [17:12] | Gregory Maurer: | well |
| [17:13] | Gregory Maurer: | I have made prims that don't highlight before |
| [17:13] | Kitto Flora: | It works in no-rez / no script areas |
| [17:13] | Kitto Flora: | It appears to be a scripted attachment |
| [17:13] | Gregory Maurer: | Near a border? |
| [17:13] | Sindy Tsure: | no script isn't hard to get around.. |
| [17:13] | Andrew Linden: | hrm... |
| [17:13] | Kitto Flora: | It was near a border yes |
| [17:13] | Sindy Tsure: | dunno how to do no-rez, tho.. unless you sit on it and drag it over |
| [17:13] | Kitto Flora: | Ahern WA is all borders |
| [17:13] | Gregory Maurer: | Linking |
| [17:14] | Gregory Maurer: | It could dump the avatar into you |
| [17:14] | Gregory Maurer: | bump |
| [17:14] | Charlette Proto: | same in Korea |
| [17:14] | Kitto Flora: | I could not see the offending avatar move noticably toward the hit avatar |
| [17:15] | Kitto Flora: | Theres a animation - right arm upper-cut |
| [17:15] | Kitto Flora: | And the 'struck' av gets moved several meters |
| [17:15] | Charlette Proto: | not animation but a move avatar script |
| [17:15] | Andrew Linden: | well, I'll try to ask #support to see what they know about it. |
| [17:15] | Sindy Tsure: | did help->show bumps/hits reveal anything |
| [17:15] | Kitto Flora: | No |
| [17:15] | Sindy Tsure: | hi xstorm |
| [17:15] | Gregory Maurer: | I don't know about how push works over borders (aka push land -> no push land) |
| [17:16] | Sindy Tsure: | tiny night! hi patty |
| [17:16] | Rex Cronon: | the show bumps is useless:( |
| [17:16] | Kitto Flora: | All that area is no-push |
| [17:16] | Kitto Flora: | Ahern WA has no rez no push no script for many Meteres around |
| [17:16] | Charlette Proto: | plywood cubes are blind |
| [17:16] | Object: Hello, Avatar! | |
| [17:17] | Rex Cronon: | sometimes mega chopsticks have uses:) |
| [17:17] | xstorm Radek: | ? |
| [17:17] | Simon Linden: | I just fixed a bug about show-bumps; you can whack someone with a physical object and the owner is reported, not the person dragging the object around |
| [17:17] | Charlette Proto: | poor tinies appear to be discriminated against in context of a roundtable talks |
| [17:17] | xstorm Radek: | whats save our hippos ? |
| [17:18] | Andrew Linden: | you can raise your chair with PgUp I think |
| [17:18] | Kitto Flora: | There was an Av in Waterhead last nite, complaining about the 'Kick' version, and looking for any Av shield to protect against it - said so far he'd found none |
| [17:18] | Charlette Proto: | Hippo OS viewer perhaps |
| [17:18] | Sindy Tsure: | xstorm: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11118 !! |
| [17:18] | Gregory Maurer: | Another question that's been on my mind lately... What will become of posJump (llSetPrimitiveParams( [ PRIM_POSITION , < 1.304382E+19 , 1.304382E+19 , 0.0 > , PRIM_POSITION , target_pos , PRIM_POSITION , start_pos , PRIM_POSITION , target_pos ] );)? |
| [17:18] | Simon Linden: | We should edit this script - pgup doesn't go that far |
| [17:19] | Andrew Linden: | as I recall posJump is dead, warPos is not dead |
| [17:19] | Gregory Maurer: | It still works on the 1.26 sims on the beta grid |
| [17:19] | Andrew Linden: | er... maybe it was that someone claimed posJump is fixed in server-1.26? |
| [17:19] | xstorm Radek: | so any one know why the stuff in sims are moving ? |
| [17:19] | Sindy Tsure: | like 'take to the vet' fixed or 'working again' fixed? |
| [17:19] | Kitto Flora: | Where they going? |
| [17:20] | xstorm Radek: | drift |
| [17:20] | Gregory Maurer: | let me check the history on the wiki page |
| [17:20] | Andrew Linden: | more context on "moving stuff" xstorm? |
| [17:20] | Andrew Linden: | oh, rotation drift or linear drift? |
| [17:20] | Kitto Flora: | Havent seen any drift for ages |
| [17:20] | Sindy Tsure has heard prim drift mentioned a few times on the forums lately | |
| [17:20] | Sindy Tsure: | after not hearing it for like a year |
| [17:20] | Andrew Linden: | there is a rotation drift problem that I have a fix for, just fixed it yesterday |
| [17:21] | Andrew Linden: | however the drift I found was very small |
| [17:21] | xstorm Radek: | ok then thats it |
| [17:21] | Andrew Linden: | if it isn't a very small rotation drift then perhaps someone has a jira? |
| [17:21] | Gregory Maurer: | It appears that Soft Linden said posJump will no longer work |
| [17:21] | Andrew Linden: | I think the number was SVC-15 |
| [17:21] | Gregory Maurer: | "http://wiki.secondlife.com/w/index.php?title=PosJump&diff=next&oldid=95114" |
| [17:21] | Rex Cronon: | which way do they drift, vertically, horizontally, or both? |
| [17:22] | Sindy Tsure: | or rotation? |
| [17:23] | xstorm Radek: | we have prims in Hyde Park London England moving out drom the center of the sim |
| [17:23] | Andrew Linden: | hrm... the comments in that bug are not decisive |
| [17:23] | xstorm Radek: | from |
| [17:23] | Andrew Linden: | someone claims their pieces moved 5 meters |
| [17:23] | xstorm Radek: | but its like a 0.002 drift |
| [17:23] | Andrew Linden: | but I have trouble believing they moved that far spontaneously |
| [17:23] | xstorm Radek: | the sim is restarted every day |
| [17:23] | Andrew Linden: | linear drift xstorm? xyz position? |
| [17:24] | Charlette Proto: | there would be visible evidence of drift like 5m so it sounds bogus to me |
| [17:24] | xstorm Radek: | from center out like there is no grav in the sim |
| [17:24] | Andrew Linden: | I'll assign that bug to me and comment |
| [17:25] | Andrew Linden: | currently closed, but there is a small known drift |
| [17:25] | xstorm Radek: | but the prims are locked even |
| [17:25] | Sindy Tsure: | are they on or really close to the ground? |
| [17:25] | xstorm Radek: | so how can a lock prim drift ? |
| [17:25] | xstorm Radek: | off the ground now |
| [17:26] | xstorm Radek: | trees and signs and more |
| [17:26] | Sindy Tsure: | i've seen things appear to drift vs the ground.. a while ago, though. iirc, i thought it was rendering wierdness |
| [17:26] | Sindy Tsure: | ..in height |
| [17:26] | Kitto Flora: | Anyone been editing land in the area? |
| [17:26] | xstorm Radek: | so every day i move them all back down |
| [17:27] | xstorm Radek: | i hope not |
| [17:27] | Charlette Proto: | precission of rotations has always been a prob onless the angles are round fractions of radians for what i know |
| [17:27] | Andrew Linden: | there is another "bug" of sorts that can cause the ground to move slightly. |
| [17:27] | Kitto Flora: | If you edit land up past the prim, it may force the prim 'out of the ground' |
| [17:27] | Simon Linden: | Does this happen without a region restart? |
| [17:27] | xstorm Radek: | hhhmmm gound moving ? |
| [17:27] | Andrew Linden: | and then there is a rotation precision problem from limitations in the UI |
| [17:27] | xstorm Radek: | no it seems only when the sim restarts |
| [17:27] | Sindy Tsure: | if it's the same object that keeps moving and you have mod perms, maybe add a script that checks the position once an hour or so? |
| [17:28] | Andrew Linden: | does burying the prim in the ground really move it up? I thought that if you bury it deep enough it just gets returned |
| [17:28] | Kitto Flora: | Dunno how to bury deep |
| [17:28] | xstorm Radek: | yes even in the ground they move |
| [17:28] | Charlette Proto: | just set Z to burry it |
| [17:29] | Kitto Flora: | If you edit a prim - move it down - its sticks at the ground surface |
| [17:29] | Kitto Flora: | Charlette: Last I saw it just wont obey your edit entry |
| [17:29] | Andrew Linden: | well, find the relevant jira and add your reproduction recipe in the comments |
| [17:29] | Andrew Linden: | then ping me about the jira number |
| [17:29] | xstorm Radek: | is there a way to find out if some one is messing with a sim ? |
| [17:29] | Kitto Flora: | Whether one can edit the land UP and bury deep - havent tried that |
| [17:30] | Andrew Linden: | what kind of "messing" xstorm |
| [17:30] | xstorm Radek: | moving settings or moving prims ? |
| [17:30] | Sindy Tsure: | private island or mainland? |
| [17:30] | xstorm Radek: | Hyde Park London England is a island |
| [17:30] | xstorm Radek: | a welcome place |
| [17:31] | Charlette Proto: | in some sims the surface is well above 0m so there may be leaway there eg terraforming mesh is very rough and may be rounded off at times |
| [17:31] | Andrew Linden: | there are some logs about who is messing with the terrain |
| [17:31] | Charlette Proto: | precisely |
| [17:31] | Andrew Linden: | moving objects around does not necessarily produce any logs, but rezzing objects does |
| [17:31] | Kitto Flora: | A sim settings change log would be useful |
| [17:32] | xstorm Radek: | i will have debs ask for that data |
| [17:32] | Kitto Flora: | I manage a sim where the owner swears 'some one is messing with the settings' ... and theres no way to tell |
| [17:32] | Andrew Linden: | hrm... "messing" with the estate or region settings? |
| [17:32] | Kitto Flora: | Yes andrew - either |
| [17:32] | Andrew Linden: | those may be logged. I'm not sure. I'd have to go examine the code. |
| [17:32] | Kitto Flora: | But if its only a console message - no good to us |
| [17:32] | Andrew Linden: | If not, they probably should be logged. |
| [17:33] | Andrew Linden makes a note | |
| [17:33] | Kitto Flora: | Needs like a transaction history |
| [17:33] | Sindy Tsure: | that could get big quickly.. |
| [17:33] | Kitto Flora: | Last 24 hours or so |
| [17:33] | Sindy Tsure: | er.. for the land map changes |
| [17:34] | Andrew Linden: | Hrm... we definitely don't keep a history of changes in simulator memory, but that might not be too hard. |
| [17:34] | Kitto Flora: | Certainly one of the sims I look after suddenly lost all its region managers, and the 'no access if age not verified' flag got turned on |
| [17:35] | Sindy Tsure: | i think estate managers would find that useful, andrew |
| [17:35] | Andrew Linden: | yes I think it would be useful |
| [17:36] | Andrew Linden: | Cg Linden was just telling me about some of the pain our own #support team is experiencing -- they can't get much developer love for features that woudl help them out or reduce their workload |
| [17:36] | Andrew Linden: | I'm thinking maybe I should set up a semi-regular meeting with some of them so they can submit their requests directly to me |
| [17:37] | Brie Janick: | hello |
| [17:37] | Andrew Linden wonders if he would even have time to spare... | |
| [17:37] | Rex Cronon: | hi |
| [17:37] | Patty1 Rosca: | hi Brie |
| [17:37] | xstorm Radek: | Brie welcome |
| [17:37] | Sindy Tsure: | we have a similar problem at my rl work.. i think it's probably common at lots of companies |
| [17:37] | Kitto Flora: | Did anyone come up with ideas about best new llFunctions to add? |
| [17:37] | Brie Janick: | ive lost voice x just relogging 2 secs |
| [17:37] | Brie Janick: | brb |
| [17:37] | Sindy Tsure: | llParcelSay, kitto! |
| [17:37] | Andrew Linden: | we're not using voice Brie |
| [17:37] | Sindy Tsure: | hi brie |
| [17:37] | xstorm Radek: | Brie knows of all the drifting in Hyde Park London England |
| [17:37] | Gregory Maurer: | llCreateTime(float time); |
| [17:38] | Sindy Tsure: | llPaySindy ? |
| [17:38] | Kitto Flora: | I suggest two 0 having thought about it: |
| [17:38] | xstorm Radek: | drats |
| [17:38] | Andrew Linden: | oh right, llParcelSay would only propagate on the parcel |
| [17:38] | Kitto Flora: | 1) llUnsitPos(<...>) |
| [17:38] | xstorm Radek: | she crashed |
| [17:38] | Andrew Linden: | but... a parcel might include two totally distinct pieces on opposite corners of the region |
| [17:38] | Patty1 Rosca: | *:::* WELCOME BACK *:::* |
| [17:38] | Patty1 Rosca: | Brie |
| [17:38] | Brie Janick: | hi everyone |
| [17:38] | Brie Janick: | ty |
| [17:38] | Kitto Flora: | Lack has been a problem for so long |
| [17:38] | Kitto Flora: | And work arounds are all expensive |
| [17:39] | Charlette Proto: | llSetPrimFaceText(string, color, font, size, etc) |
| [17:39] | Brie Janick: | nice to meet you all |
| [17:39] | Andrew Linden: | would llParcelSay reach objects from one part of the parcel to the other, despite the distance? |
| [17:39] | Rex Cronon: | hi again |
| [17:39] | Sindy Tsure: | there's a jira for llparcelsay, andrew.. one of the comments was that it should take a bool to say if the chat should go to unconnected parcels |
| [17:39] | Gregory Maurer: | What about allowing llRegionSay on channel 0 for estate owner/manager? |
| [17:39] | Sindy Tsure: | or maybe it was if it should go to all land owned by the same group.. |
| [17:39] | Andrew Linden: | oy, that little bool just killed the project ;-) |
| [17:39] | Sindy Tsure: | no! |
| [17:39] | Charlette Proto: | we really need programable text on prims to save uploading of textures used to make posters and stuff (prices etc0 |
| [17:39] | Sindy Tsure: | http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1224 is the llParcelSay one |
| [17:40] | Kitto Flora: | The second one is a way to read 'Pending DOwnloads' from the Stats Panel. int llGetPendingDownloads() ? |
| [17:40] | Rex Cronon: | i have a good one llObjectSay(uuid obj, string txt) |
| [17:40] | Andrew Linden: | ah, text on prim surface |
| [17:40] | xstorm Radek: | you can put ascii on peims |
| [17:40] | Andrew Linden: | how does that one work Rex? |
| [17:40] | Charlette Proto: | absolutely critical to commerce Andrew |
| [17:40] | Kitto Flora: | The reason for that is to disable vendows when the Asset Server has problems |
| [17:40] | xstorm Radek: | and you can put a webpage on a prim |
| [17:40] | Andrew Linden: | llObjectSay() goes directly from one object to another... does it span region boundaries? |
| [17:40] | Rex Cronon: | sends a txt msg to only one object |
| [17:40] | Sindy Tsure: | object/object communciations |
| [17:40] | Charlette Proto: | webpage is very resource heavy |
| [17:41] | Sindy Tsure: | regex filters for listen/chat is a common suggestion |
| [17:41] | Rex Cronon: | at least in same sim |
| [17:41] | Morgaine Dinova: | Yes, pure text is really poorly supported. You'd think we could write text natively on prims, without ourselves munging textures |
| [17:41] | Rex Cronon: | svg on prims:) |
| [17:41] | Sindy Tsure: | custom damping for llmovetotarget would be great.. i started coming to these meetings to push for that.. :) |
| [17:41] | xstorm Radek: | ok what about a plot map on the prim ? |
| [17:41] | Andrew Linden: | btw, if you know of any jira that mention these wish-list function calls please paste them into text for posterity |
| [17:42] | Andrew Linden: | (so I can find them more easily later) |
| [17:42] | Gregory Maurer: | there is the list on the wiki |
| [17:42] | Charlette Proto: | text would be used in many ways even the current HUDs could use for UI |
| [17:42] | Sindy Tsure: | http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1479 - llMoveToTarget with custom damping |
| [17:42] | Andrew Linden: | paste the wiki link Gregory |
| [17:42] | Gregory Maurer: | http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LSL_Useful_Function_WishList |
| [17:42] | Andrew Linden: | thanks Sindy |
| [17:42] | Sindy Tsure: | http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-791 - llListenRegex |
| [17:42] | Andrew Linden: | Ah, excellent Gregory |
| [17:42] | Rex Cronon: | if svg on prim was possible, than we could really have witheboards:) |
| [17:43] | Sindy Tsure: | http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-713 - meta issue for new lsl comms stuff |
| [17:43] | Kitto Flora: | Is the present problem with llMoveToTarget() being exponential due to that it simply uses the PID controller, Anderw? |
| [17:43] | xstorm Radek: | is that not just prims ? |
| [17:43] | Sindy Tsure: | http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-301 - meta issue for new lsl stuff in general |
| [17:43] | Simon Linden: | Kitto - what do you mean by that problem? |
| [17:44] | Kitto Flora: | Sorry |
| [17:44] | Andrew Linden: | PID controller? |
| [17:44] | Kitto Flora: | I mean llSetPos() - that moves in jerks |
| [17:44] | Morgaine Dinova: | In this new MMOX workgroup we have at the IETF, we'll be looking at extensible protocols, so SVG will definitely be on the table. As well as hierarchical objects. |
| [17:44] | xstorm Radek: | yes thats prims |
| [17:44] | Andrew Linden: | llSetPos() is actually instantaneous on the server, but the client does a little interpolation magic |
| [17:44] | Kitto Flora: | You no grok PID controller? |
| [17:44] | Andrew Linden: | no, you'll have to explain PID controller to me./ |
| [17:45] | Kitto Flora: | Ah ok ANdrew |
| [17:45] | Kitto Flora: | Its a servo-loop system |
| [17:45] | Charlette Proto: | does that explain anything Kitto? |
| [17:45] | xstorm Radek: | prims like the ones that say {Connect} can make prim trash |
| [17:45] | Andrew Linden: | ok, so if I had taken a course in robotics I would recognize the term? |
| [17:46] | xstorm Radek: | and is not good for lagy sims |
| [17:46] | Kitto Flora: | But if SetPos() is instant with the the client smoothing - OK - I see where the problems with fixing it would be |
| [17:46] | Gregory Maurer: | Temp |
| [17:46] | Gregory Maurer: | Is that why there is a 0.2 sec delay? or part of the reason |
| [17:46] | Kitto Flora: | Er - study control systems - yes |
| [17:46] | Andrew Linden: | oh right... I just rememberd my ideas for smooth-movable static objects (one of my favorite ideas since Havok4) |
| [17:46] | Sindy Tsure: | i think they put the delay in on anything that might be abused and cause bad lag |
| [17:47] | xstorm Radek: | can you not do a plot mesh script ? |
| [17:47] | Gregory Maurer: | Its fairly easy to use child scripts to get around it |
| [17:47] | Andrew Linden: | xstorm, you mean a sort of animation movement sequence? That sorta overlaps with my ideas. |
| [17:47] | Kitto Flora: | Seems that one would have to break down the moves into frame-by-frame steps, the step size being distance x speed / frametime. |
| [17:47] | xstorm Radek: | yes |
| [17:48] | Kitto Flora: | Then the client would smooth it nicely |
| [17:48] | Andrew Linden: | yeah... but it would be nice to be able to save a sequence of moves to some data object, and then be able to invoke various data objects |
| [17:49] | Andrew Linden: | well, I don't think I'll tackle that right away, but it is always fun to think about. |
| [17:49] | Kitto Flora: | Hah - yeah but I might. These days I work on OpenSIm. |
| [17:49] | Sindy Tsure: | it'd be great to be able to do scripted movement without having to do physics stuff |
| [17:49] | Sindy Tsure: | *smootly |
| [17:49] | Kitto Flora: | and the vehicle stuff is a lot more difficult |
| [17:50] | Andrew Linden: | ok, I'm going to try to revisit those links later |
| [17:50] | Andrew Linden: | we've got about 10 more minutes. Anyone have last minute questions/issues that they have been saving for last? |
| [17:51] | Kitto Flora: | Andrew: Is anyone likely to care about this latest griefing problem? |
| [17:51] | Sindy Tsure goes off on a bit of a tangent.. somebody asked if i could get opinions on what people thought of sl easter eggs.. like the hippos in http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11118 | |
| [17:51] | Gregory Maurer: | Invest in renewable hippos |
| [17:51] | Andrew Linden: | Yes Kitto, I care... sorta. |
| [17:51] | xstorm Radek: | can there be a inworld blog board so we can read inside SL |
| [17:52] | Andrew Linden: | Sorta in the sense that I cringe at the idea of needing to fit yet another emergency into my schedule |
| [17:52] | Rex Cronon: | kitto,, u need to have an AR party:) |
| [17:52] | Patty1 Rosca: | LOL |
| [17:52] | Patty1 Rosca: | lol |
| [17:52] | Andrew Linden: | but if you have an offending object, or know of the details about a grief event, I can probably find some time to investigate |
| [17:52] | Andrew Linden: | what I need is avatar name, region, and approximate time of event |
| [17:53] | Charlette Proto: | llMoveAgentJoint(joint limb/part, vector rotateby) or position to animate avatars without animation files (is that possible) |
| [17:53] | Andrew Linden: | then I would go into the logs and see what I can figure out |
| [17:53] | Andrew Linden: | grab assets and examine the objects involved |
| [17:53] | Kitto Flora: | I can try to get the object - I already did .. so far its like trying to get U238 |
| [17:53] | Kitto Flora: | Av name region and time I can get |
| [17:53] | Andrew Linden: | if you know owner and location I can probably find the object |
| [17:53] | Andrew Linden: | send me an email, or IM when I'm offline |
| [17:54] | Rex Cronon: | an AR party is when u invite everybody u know to abuse a specifc person |
| [17:54] | Kitto Flora: | But - at the rate you get IMs - its gonna be 12 hours stale |
| [17:54] | Andrew Linden: | (whichis most of the time;-) |
| [17:54] | xstorm Radek: | i may have to do up a test recording prim in the sim |
| [17:54] | Rex Cronon: | to abuse report* |
| [17:54] | Andrew Linden: | yes, but the 12hours stale is not too stale |
| [17:54] | Kitto Flora: | OK |
| [17:54] | Brie Janick: | Hi feebs you know JohnnyD Posthorn hes an ass i have banned him from london. he rezzed a phone box in the club got 2 people to have sex for a photo shoot and broadcatsed you gave him permisson i said no i dont think so He was told to stop told clive to go fuck him self and was rude and disgusting. the 2 people having sex one compleyt naked refused to stop i ejected the 2 people having sex . johnny was rude and gae ma mouthful in im , hes been ar by me and clive |
| [01:10:47] brie janick says: and hes not to come back here hes asked fr his things to be retured , he did this with 31 people in the club all horrified at what they wee doing wanted to let you know and he also saying to everyon debs gave him permisson | ||
| [01:11:03] brie janick says: hes disgusting and nasty man | ||
| [17:54] | Brie Janick: | shit |
| [17:54] | Brie Janick: | sorry |
| [17:54] | Brie Janick: | error |
| [17:54] | Brie Janick: | oops |
| [17:55] | Brie Janick: | lol |
| [17:55] | Brie Janick: | was an ar i just did |
| [17:55] | xstorm Radek: | ? |
| [17:55] | Kitto Flora: | care to post your password too? |
| [17:55] | xstorm Radek: | its ok Brie |
| [17:55] | Brie Janick: | thats why i am here really |
| [17:55] | Brie Janick: | to ask for some advise |
| [17:55] | Andrew Linden: | ask |
| [17:55] | Brie Janick: | as some know Our OI went live |
| [17:55] | Brie Janick: | we are having issues with vampires and grifers galore |
| [17:56] | Brie Janick: | in the last hour ive banned and ejected 6 people alone |
| [17:56] | Brie Janick: | we had some who crashed one of or sims 2 hours agai |
| [17:56] | Kitto Flora: | Late nights (when the Lindens are asleep) I go around the WAs seeing what stoppids are up to |
| [17:56] | Brie Janick: | ago |
| [17:56] | Kitto Flora: | (Stupids) |
| [17:56] | Brie Janick: | we are struggling to stop this i cannot give everyone eject righst its not possible |
| [17:56] | Morgaine Dinova: | Sex is really disgusting, I think all sex should be banned. In fact, everything should be banned except milk, fish and catnip. |
| [17:57] | Charlette Proto: | Brie you should visit Korea, just to feel you are not alone |
| [17:57] | Kitto Flora: | Oh yeah - griefers can still drive sims down to TD of 0.02 |
| [17:57] | Brie Janick: | they rezzed a phone box in a club with 31 people jut now |
| [17:57] | Charlette Proto: | hehe Morgaine |
| [17:57] | Kitto Flora: | and with no visible prims |
| [17:57] | Brie Janick: | they dropped something that rezzed and caused everyone to become like robots we could move or tp |
| [17:57] | Brie Janick: | its getting worse |
| [17:57] | Brie Janick: | we are a target now |
| [17:58] | Morgaine Dinova: | Well it's true that LL is not providing adequate anti-grief controls. |
| [17:58] | Andrew Linden: | well Brie, it is tough. The timeline at which I can help is long. Even if I fix a bug or plug a grief mode today, it won't get deployed for a month or more |
| [17:58] | Gregory Maurer: | last q: will posJump will definitely be removed? |
| [17:58] | Charlette Proto: | Korea 1 is a target too |
| [17:58] | Brie Janick: | today has been like a full moon |
| [17:58] | Rex Cronon: | brie, do u know anybody that is a mentor? |
| [17:58] | xstorm Radek: | its the same group thats making problems in korea1 , waterhead and the pond |
| [17:58] | Andrew Linden: | when it comes to best pratices and workarounds given our current feature set... it is probably best to ask other estate owners honestly |
| [17:58] | Brie Janick: | me |
| [17:58] | Charlette Proto: | we had a dude who crashed the sime eight times in a row |
| [17:58] | Brie Janick: | and a good team |
| [17:58] | Andrew Linden: | or else to approach #support |
| [17:59] | Brie Janick: | yes |
| [17:59] | Morgaine Dinova: | Crashing the sim is definitely in Andrew's area --- supply details! :-) |
| [17:59] | Brie Janick: | but its hard as of time zones aswell |
| [17:59] | Brie Janick: | yes we had 51 people on the sim at the time |
| [17:59] | Kitto Flora: | I see a lot of new sims that are set up badly. And owners that dont understand the problems they are headed for |
| [17:59] | Andrew Linden: | yes, I'm interested in reports of crashes. region names and times are required |
| [17:59] | Morgaine Dinova: | Andrew: do you get adequate feedback for what causes a sim to crash when it does? |
| [17:59] | Andrew Linden: | best to report crashes that are not older than 7 days |
| [18:00] | Andrew Linden: | Morgaine, I've got logs and a core-dump when a region crashes |
| [18:00] | Brie Janick: | we are Ar ing people left right and centre but we found some people who were ejcted were able to come back only option was for me to estate ban |
| [18:00] | Morgaine Dinova: | kk |
| [18:00] | Andrew Linden: | oh, and a simstate containing all objects at the crash |
| [18:00] | Kitto Flora: | Dont a sim tell anyon when it crashes? |
| [18:00] | Kitto Flora: | Like message to Andrew? |
| [18:00] | Andrew Linden: | yes kitto, but we've got a level of constant crashes |
| [18:00] | Brie Janick: | are there any plans to tackle the vamps |
| [18:01] | Brie Janick: | in no biting zones |
| [18:01] | Andrew Linden: | and we collect the server crash reports |
| [18:01] | Morgaine Dinova: | Really need something higher level than a core dump, although need the core dump to see the actual code bug yeah. |
| [18:01] | Andrew Linden: | some of the existing crash modes have been fixe, but not yet deployed (that month+ I was talking about) |
| [18:01] | Simon Linden: | We have a pretty good system that collects the crash reports, and let's us find the common or frequent crashes |
| [18:01] | Brie Janick: | okay |
| [18:01] | Rex Cronon: | brie, u need to get everybody u know to fileAR |
| [18:01] | Andrew Linden: | some of the others are hard to fix |
| [18:01] | Charlette Proto: | SpiN Wezzog (so confident he was 2006 resident now deleted) would say BRB and crash the sim also used alts: Derik Biedermann David3645 Amat LaLa Porta |
| [18:01] | Brie Janick: | i do i am very strict on warn if not ar and ban |
| [18:01] | Kitto Flora: | So why do you need us to tell you about a sim crash? |
| [18:01] | xstorm Radek: | i had 5 crash to day |
| [18:01] | Morgaine Dinova: | Oh, automatic collation of bug areas? That sounds useful. |
| [18:02] | Gregory Maurer: | I remember hearing a rumor about someone who rezzed a ton of objects and immediately crashed sims (regardless of no rez) ... but its a rumor, like "RADAR FREE V4" |
| [18:02] | Andrew Linden: | kitto, because I normally don't spend my time examining crashes. When a known recipie for crash goes into jira I will usually get it and fix it sooner if I can |
| [18:03] | Sindy Tsure: | i find griefers are less likely to come back if i just punt them.. the more you talk/argue with them or freeze them so that people can AR, the more likely they are to come back |
| [18:03] | Andrew Linden: | some crash modes are so hard to fix we have to revert to banning the responsible objects until we can actually fix them |
| [18:03] | Sindy Tsure: | just punt 'em and move on, if you can |
| [18:03] | xstorm Radek: | yes they can do that i have seen them do it |
| [18:03] | Brie Janick: | was stranag some rezzzed an object yet they had no tag to enable rezzing |
| [18:03] | Simon Linden: | It's also good to hear from people about what's causing them pain -- helps us figure out priorities |
| [18:03] | Brie Janick: | they were able to do it |
| [18:03] | Andrew Linden: | Ok, I've got to go soon. |
| [18:03] | Simon Linden: | Brie - so the parcel was set to no-rez? |
| [18:03] | Charlette Proto: | bye Andrew |
| [18:03] | Brie Janick: | last week someone rezzed something and threw me of my feet i managed to grab it and eject him |
| [18:03] | xstorm Radek: | thank you Andrew for your time |
| [18:04] | Kitto Flora: | OK, let me put it anothe rway: If I am i na sim that crashes - what Info can I supply you with in an IM that is not already available in the automatic system? |
| [18:04] | Brie Janick: | ty Andrew |
| [18:04] | Sindy Tsure: | oh.. one more.. http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-835 - top scripts on parcel for mainland dwellers |
| [18:04] | Patty1 Rosca: | bye andrew |
| [18:04] | Rex Cronon: | bye andrew |
| [18:04] | Gregory Maurer: | bye |
| [18:04] | Sindy Tsure: | and a way to find out who's driving my active scripts count up over 10k! |
| [18:04] | xstorm Radek: | thank you Simon |
| [18:04] | Sindy Tsure: | cya, aandrew! |
| [18:04] | Sindy Tsure: | *-a |
| [18:04] | Simon Linden: | Kitto - time and place is pretty much it, with that we can find the report and crash dump |
| [18:04] | Sindy Tsure: | and simon |
| [18:04] | Sindy Tsure: | cya, all |
| [18:04] | Morgaine Dinova: | Cya Andrew :-) |
| [18:04] | Kitto Flora: | OK |
| [18:04] | Kitto Flora: | Byebye andrew |
| [18:04] | Morgaine Dinova: | Cya Simon :-) |
| [18:05] | Simon Linden: | Thanks everyone for coming |