User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2007 Sep 11

Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:

[10:05]	Torley Tester:	BEN!!!
[10:05]	Daedalus Young:	hi benjamin
[10:05]	Beware Hax:	ok if i camera navigate, my av updates
[10:05]	WarKirby Magojiro:	llSetText is a generally used thing to force a prim update, for whatever reason
[10:05]	Benjamin Linden:	hey guys
[10:05]	Beware Hax:	ok
[10:05]	Miya Watanabe:	hello.
[10:05]	Benjamin Linden:	sorry I'm a little late
[10:05]	Wyn Galbraith:	Speak of the devil and you hear the flapping of his wings.
[10:06]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Dnate, long time!
[10:06]	Boroondas Gupte:	the devil has wings?
[10:06]	Benjamin Linden decline 'OmniPhaze v2.0 Boxed' ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Hwaryeo/73/82/61 ) from OmniCorp Update Server.
[10:06]	Beware Hax:	ok i have a problem with my vendor network
[10:06]	WarKirby Magojiro:	?
[10:06]	Wyn Galbraith:	The devil has whatever he wants.
[10:06]	WarKirby Magojiro:	what does that have to do with SL's UI ?
[10:06]	Beware Hax:	possible free shopping exploit
[10:07]	Benjamin Linden:	ok let's have a look at the agenda
[10:07]	WarKirby Magojiro tries to rez an urler, and hits the no build
[10:07]	WarKirby Magojiro:	Agenda is here >> http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/UI_Agenda
[10:07]	Benjamin Linden:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/UI_Agenda
[10:08]	WarKirby Magojiro:	Oh. The first issue is a worrying one
[10:08]	Benjamin Linden:	still no patches, hmm
[10:08]	WarKirby Magojiro:	Griefers have been using this as a weapon
[10:08]	Torley Tester:	Hm, I remember this being mentioned recently --
[10:08]	WarKirby Magojiro:	by fuilling a sim with spamm objects, and then purposely gettin their account banned
[10:08]	Torley Tester:	it's troublesome that banned accounts don't show up in the people finder!
[10:08]	WarKirby Magojiro:	the landowner is unable to clear it up easily
[10:09]	Torley Tester:	I should retitle it too, it's not so much "current account" as "active account" and there are dupes... :\
[10:09]	WarKirby Magojiro:	they don't show in about land either, which is the biggest problem
[10:09]	Benjamin Linden:	maybe we need to add a field so that people can type the name of a banned user
[10:09]	Daedalus Young:	but nowadays, when you Report Abuse on an object, the owner's name is automatically filled in
[10:09]	Torley Tester:	Okay, wow, this is really duped a lot... let's close this and focus on https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-313
[10:09]	Torley Tester:	Which is the same thing and already imported.
[10:09]	Benjamin Linden:	good idea Torley
[10:10]	WarKirby Magojiro:	hmm
[10:10]	Torley Tester:	Looks like this reporter reported it himself 3 times...
[10:10]	WarKirby Magojiro:	Is there a need for them to show up in the abuse reports ?
[10:10]	Saijanai Kuhn:	I note the same guy submitted report
[10:10]	WarKirby Magojiro:	Since they're already banned, a report will serve no purpose
[10:10]	Saijanai Kuhn:	this is kinda self-defeating, IMHO, because it dilutes the votes
[10:10]	Torley Tester:	Yes, indeed Saijanai...
[10:10]	WarKirby Magojiro:	I think they only need to show up in abnout land/estate tools
[10:11]	Benjamin Linden:	too bad there isn't a way to combine votes for duplicate issues
[10:11]	WarKirby Magojiro:	so their objects can be returned
[10:11]	Benjamin Linden:	Torley I'll edit the wiki since iridium isn't here
[10:11]	Torley Tester:	OK thanks Ben...
[10:11]	Torley Tester:	So yeah, VWR-2392 closed as dupe, in favor of MISC-313 (already imported).
[10:12]	WarKirby Magojiro:	hmm
[10:12]	Benjamin Linden:	ok next up
[10:12]	Benjamin Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2086
[10:13]	WarKirby Magojiro:	I always found that annoying, personally
[10:13]	WarKirby Magojiro:	I like the current situation better
[10:13]	Torley Tester:	Iridium sez she's coming shortly.
[10:13]	WarKirby Magojiro:	isn't there a beacon option for showing physical objects ?
[10:13]	Daedalus Young:	I do see Physical Objects in View > Beacons, I'd suppose that should be this function
[10:13]	Torley Tester:	Yes, there is, WarKirby.
[10:14]	Torley Tester:	Jake Linden re-engineered the beacons & highlights, and BTW, that will be my Tip of the Week #4 this Thursday. :)
[10:14]	WarKirby Magojiro gave you Jira URL-er - v1.1.
[10:14]	Daedalus Young:	hi Iridium
[10:14]	Torley Tester:	i agree with what Benja said there, that we could've, should've communicated it better.
[10:14]	Iridium Linden:	Hiya!
[10:14]	Benjamin Linden:	Torley, is this issue addressed with those changes that Jake made?
[10:14]	WarKirby Magojiro:	that will work nicely for urtls, ben
[10:14]	Iridium Linden:	Sorry I'm late.
[10:14]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Iridium
[10:14]	Iridium Linden:	I found a really kewl patch.
[10:14]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-418
[10:14]	Torley Tester:	Ben: No, it isn't, it works differently -- overall I believe the current change is preferred by most, but understandably, some don't like it.
[10:15]	Wyn Galbraith loves your tips Torley. "I even learn things from them."
[10:15]	Torley Tester:	Thanks Wyn. =o)
[10:15]	Benjamin Linden:	what is it about the new behavior they don't like?
[10:15]	WarKirby Magojiro:	How about an option to use the old behaaviour, if desired
[10:15]	WarKirby Magojiro:	but have it default to the current
[10:15]	Torley Tester:	Benjamin: Specifically that it isn't as easy to have physical objects show up with red highlights when holding Alt... BUT...
[10:15]	Torley Tester:	the other problem here was that holding down Alt is also used when Alt-clicking to zoom the camera.
[10:15]	Torley Tester:	Thus, there was a conflict.
[10:15]	Benjamin Linden:	right
[10:16]	Seg Baphomet:	HAY GUYS
[10:16]	Benjamin Linden:	but it was an option before right
[10:16]	Daedalus Young:	hi Seg
[10:16]	WarKirby Magojiro waves to seg
[10:16]	Torley Tester:	Right.
[10:16]	Daedalus Young:	I know it was buggy in build mode
[10:16]	Torley Tester:	Daed: Yeah, we both remember that.
[10:16]	Torley Tester:	Sometimes it'd get "stuck" (see linked issues).
[10:16]	WarKirby Magojiro:	another problem that I had too
[10:16]	Daedalus Young:	yes, have had that happen too
[10:16]	Wyn Galbraith:	Hey seg.
[10:17]	Iridium Linden:	Hey, before we keep going, can we take a look at this patch?
[10:17]	WarKirby Magojiro:	For particles...
[10:17]	WarKirby Magojiro:	yay
[10:17]	Saijanai Kuhn:	...?
[10:17]	Iridium Linden:	After we're finished with this one, that is.
[10:18]	Benjamin Linden:	sure, Iridium, that's fine
[10:18]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-418
[10:18]	Iridium Linden:	Adding to the wiki.
[10:18]	WarKirby Magojiro:	It doesn't seem to mention a fix for the emissive not working
[10:18]	Seg Baphomet:	Well my texture decode is sure taxed. :)
[10:18]	WarKirby Magojiro:	also, is anyone going to use an urler#
[10:18]	Benjamin Linden:	Torley if you think the new behavior is better, should we go ahead and close this one?
[10:18]	WarKirby Magojiro look at ben
[10:19]	Ruud Lathrop:	Nice blocks every where
[10:19]	Benjamin Linden:	WarKirby, I haven't had a chance to use it
[10:19]	Torley Tester:	Benjamin: I'm curious to see who else votes for it, and I think Jake's input on it (since he changed it) would be a good idea... so I'm leaning towards leaving it open for now.
[10:19]	Beware Hax:	ok since this is about UI bugs there is something which bothers me, and i dont know if there's a jira about it
[10:19]	Beware Hax:	many cases where names are 1: not copyable (even indirectly), or 2: are capped
[10:19]	Seg Baphomet:	Whats this bug?
[10:19]	Benjamin Linden:	ok there's the URLer
[10:20]	Benjamin Linden:	VWR-2086
[10:20]	Torley Tester:	Beware: If you've searched and there's no JIRA yet, then sounds like you should enter one so it doesn't get lost. =)
[10:20]	Torley Tester:	That way it can make its way onto our UI bug triage agenda in the future.
[10:20]	Daedalus Young:	iirc we did discuss capped av names though
[10:20]	Daedalus Young:	but that also could've been a dream, haha
[10:21]	WarKirby Magojiro:	use /555 vwr 2086 ben
[10:21]	Tao Takashi:	*didum*
[10:21]	Iridium Linden:	k, so where are we?
[10:21]	Benjamin Linden:	hi TAo
[10:21]	Tao Takashi:	Hi all :)
[10:21]	Wyn Galbraith idles to move her physical RL location.
[10:21]	Iridium Linden:	VWR-2392 is closed
[10:21]	WarKirby Magojiro:	Beauomont
[10:21]	Iridium Linden:	Hey Tao.
[10:21]	Torley Tester:	Iridium: Yup, dupe of an already-imported issue.
[10:21]	Torley Tester:	Yo Tao!
[10:21]	Benjamin Linden:	did we make a call on VWR-2086
[10:21]	Iridium Linden:	VWR-2086, have we gotten to that one?
[10:22]	Torley Tester:	I think, just let VWR-2086 be for now. Give it some marination time.
[10:22]	WarKirby Magojiro:	hm
[10:22]	Daedalus Young:	sounds good to me
[10:22]	Benjamin Linden:	ok that sounds good Torley
[10:22]	Benjamin Linden:	let's move on
[10:22]	Iridium Linden:	K, so https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2306.
[10:22]	Seg Baphomet:	I always found things turning red for no apparent reason to be confusing.
[10:22]	Torley Tester:	Seg: Me too.
[10:23]	Torley Tester:	Hmmm I wonder what corner McCabe would prefer here?
[10:23]	Seg Baphomet:	That may be a different bug.
[10:23]	Torley Tester:	Since all corners are often used by something!
[10:23]	Saijanai Kuhn:	2036= error
[10:23]	Boroondas Gupte:	we need more corners, then :-P
[10:23]	Ruud Lathrop:	type in search the number and you find the bug
[10:23]	Daedalus Young:	upper left I think would be best :/
[10:23]	Torley Tester:	E.g., upper-left is mini-map, lower-right is inventory...
[10:23]	Daedalus Young:	or lower right
[10:23]	WarKirby Magojiro:	chat urls are not perfect
[10:23]	Torley Tester:	Upper-left is the closest I can think of.
[10:23]	Daedalus Young:	oh, I have minimap upper right
[10:23]	Torley Tester:	Er, I meant "upper-right is mini-map".
[10:24]	Torley Tester:	My mistake!
[10:24]	Daedalus Young:	ah ok
[10:24]	Ruud Lathrop:	Middle bottom screen
[10:24]	WarKirby Magojiro:	hmm
[10:24]	Seg Baphomet:	Things should minimize to the corner they're near?
[10:24]	WarKirby Magojiro:	I'd say it shoul;d be customiseable
[10:24]	Benjamin Linden:	this isn't really a bug per se
[10:24]	Daedalus Young:	however, before the location be moved to upper, the bug in the minimized build window needs to be fixed first
[10:24]	Seg Baphomet:	Thing is, most stuff needs to become HUDs and not windows. :)
[10:24]	Torley Tester:	I think also, that minimized window positions should persist after relogs.
[10:25]	Benjamin Linden:	that would be a good thing to add to the comments, Torley
[10:25]	Daedalus Young:	yes, a user setting which persists
[10:25]	Torley Tester:	*adds a comment*
[10:25]	Ruud Lathrop:	How can you reset if you have moved a window (minimized) and it is nowhere to be found?
[10:25]	WarKirby Magojiro:	Arg. I need to run
[10:25]	Daedalus Young:	so it'll always minimize to your fave spot
[10:25]	WarKirby Magojiro:	it seems someone is trying to extort ferox
[10:25]	WarKirby Magojiro:	May possibly need a linden..
[10:26]	Boroondas Gupte:	what do you mean by HUDs, Seg?
[10:26]	Benjamin Linden:	could we just move the minimized windows over slightly to the right?
[10:26]	Saijanai Kuhn:	utf-8 hide
[10:26]	Seg Baphomet:	HUD meaning it is bound to a corner or side of the screen.
[10:27]	Boroondas Gupte:	ic
[10:27]	Benjamin Linden:	or raise the on-screen chat?
[10:27]	Wyn Galbraith settles.
[10:27]	Miya Watanabe:	slightly to the right make sense.
[10:28]	Seg Baphomet:	And it causes the center of focus of your 3d view to be adjusted.
[10:28]	Iridium Linden:	K, so where are we on this one?
[10:28]	Iridium Linden:	Import?
[10:28]	Iridium Linden:	Marinate?
[10:28]	WarKirby Magojiro:	false alarm, it seems
[10:28]	Torley Tester:	I'd say "Needs More Info" because McCabe didn't give a clear decision on what he'd prefer.
[10:28]	WarKirby Magojiro:	did I miss much ?
[10:28]	Iridium Linden:	kk
[10:28]	Torley Tester:	I left a comment.
[10:28]	Seg Baphomet:	I agree with the bug.
[10:29]	Benjamin Linden:	I agree Torley
[10:29]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2396
[10:29]	Seg Baphomet:	Worst place to default to. :)
[10:29]	Torley Tester:	NEXT!
[10:29]	Benjamin Linden:	I'll talk with Richard about potentially moving the chat up a bit
[10:29]	Seg Baphomet:	Move it up only if there's minimised windows? :)
[10:29]	Torley Tester:	Hmmm this one should be alleviated by future Second Life search rearchitecturing.
[10:30]	Tao Takashi:	if it's Google I guess something like "AM Updates" is possible (with quotes)
[10:30]	Daedalus Young:	oh, and make the width smaller if there's a blue "xxx is online" alert
[10:30]	Benjamin Linden:	yes we should close this since the new search feature will change search dramatically
[10:30]	Daedalus Young:	we get Google search? :D
[10:30]	WarKirby Magojiro:	when are we getting thsi new search ?
[10:31]	Boroondas Gupte votes for full regex support
[10:31]	Torley Tester:	K, resolving as "Won't Finish"... leaving a comment...
[10:31]	Benjamin Linden:	the schedule is still being worked out
[10:31]	Ruud Lathrop:	In the future :)
[10:31]	Saijanai Kuhn:	are we getting grep at some point?
[10:31]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1115
[10:31]	Benjamin Linden:	hang on one sec
[10:31]	Iridium Linden:	Oh wait, no!
[10:31]	Iridium Linden:	I missed one.
[10:31]	Benjamin Linden:	is this bug specific to group search?
[10:31]	Iridium Linden:	Wait, no I didn't.
[10:31]	Revolution Perenti:	heya Ben
[10:31]	Torley Tester:	Well, the 3-character thing isn't specific to group search.
[10:31]	Saijanai Kuhn:	regex of all texted items in inventory, filterable by type: notecards, scripts, whatevers.
[10:32]	Torley Tester:	*checks* It's not a group search-specific prob.
[10:32]	Revolution Perenti:	torley there been alot of issues i been debuggin myself
[10:32]	Daedalus Young:	I don't know how it's now, but the events search ised to be even worse
[10:32]	Wyn Galbraith absently waves at Rev.
[10:32]	Benjamin Linden:	let's close it as needs more ingo
[10:32]	Revolution Perenti:	not sure if you checked jira recently but i been submiiting alot of patches
[10:32]	Daedalus Young:	only found search queries if they were at the beginning of the events name
[10:32]	Revolution Perenti:	ie i fixed the memory leak bug that causes the viewer to crash
[10:32]	Torley Tester:	Ben: Hm, "Needs More Info" instead of "Won't Finish" due to the upcoming search changes?
[10:32]	Revolution Perenti:	like was caused by nvidia opengl vertex
[10:32]	WarKirby Magojiro:	I think won't finish is better
[10:33]	WarKirby Magojiro:	as in, we won't do THIS, because we're doing something else
[10:33]	Benjamin Linden:	well I'm just worried that the new search won't completely replace the other searches (groups, etc)
[10:33]	WarKirby Magojiro:	with an suitable comment explaining why
[10:33]	Benjamin Linden:	so this may continue to be an issue
[10:33]	Boroondas Gupte:	yeah
[10:33]	Benjamin Linden:	in general, I agree with you Torley and WarKirby
[10:33]	Torley Tester:	OK, I'll change resolution status.
[10:34]	Benjamin Linden:	but I want to make sure if this is happening in the groups search we catch that
[10:34]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks Torley
[10:34]	Benjamin Linden:	ok now we can move :-)
[10:34]	Benjamin Linden:	on
[10:34]	Revolution Perenti:	i fixed that Map bug last week torley too , be nice you can close that once its done
[10:34]	Benjamin Linden:	nice dress, Revolution
[10:34]	Revolution Perenti:	there so many open tickets i need to review
[10:34]	Torley Tester:	Oh which one Revolution?
[10:34]	Revolution Perenti:	lol i fixed alot over 40 last week
[10:35]	Revolution Perenti:	they still been open and lindens are not looking
[10:35]	Benjamin Linden:	did you submit patches?
[10:35]	Revolution Perenti:	would be nice to say they seen them
[10:35]	Revolution Perenti:	yes
[10:35]	Revolution Perenti:	i use patch and differ to make them
[10:35]	Daedalus Young:	ohhh, RL takes over, have to go
[10:35]	WarKirby Magojiro:	bye for now, Daedalus
[10:36]	Daedalus Young:	see you guys later and happy triaging!
[10:36]	Boroondas Gupte:	bye Deadalus
[10:36]	Daedalus Young:	bye
[10:36]	Benjamin Linden:	if they're UI bugs they should be coming up on the UI filter
[10:36]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1115
[10:36]	Benjamin Linden:	lets stick to the agenda for now, we'll figure out why they aren't showing up later
[10:37]	Revolution Perenti:	are yout tridge more UI related Ben
[10:37]	Revolution Perenti:	lol im gona hold up your tridge again
[10:37]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, Revolution, this is a triage for UI bugs
[10:37]	WarKirby Magojiro:	the word is Triage
[10:37]	Benjamin Linden:	VWR-1115 isn't a UI bug
[10:37]	Revolution Perenti:	lol well can i close the last 2 i did for you Ben
[10:37]	Boroondas Gupte:	see at https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage for a list of different triages
[10:37]	WarKirby Magojiro:	tree - aaah- je
[10:38]	Revolution Perenti:	resources and Map button fix ones
[10:38]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2251
[10:38]	Benjamin Linden:	Rev, the best thing to do is add a link to those jiras in the agenda
[10:38]	Torley Tester:	What did we decide to do with VWR-1115?
[10:38]	Ruud Lathrop:	Nothing
[10:38]	Benjamin Linden:	this one needs a different component, not sure which
[10:38]	Benjamin Linden:	but it's not UI
[10:38]	Revolution Perenti:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2329
[10:38]	Revolution Perenti:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2225
[10:38]	WarKirby Magojiro:	This one is mine
[10:39]	Iridium Linden:	We should just change the component, no?
[10:39]	Torley Tester:	OK, *changes it*
[10:39]	Benjamin Linden:	what did you change it to, Torley
[10:39]	Iridium Linden:	prolly misc if it's not transparent.
[10:39]	WarKirby Magojiro:	Are you talking about 2251 ?
[10:39]	Revolution Perenti:	i did try email you few times last week torley keeps bouncing make saying your inbox is full
[10:39]	Iridium Linden:	1115
[10:40]	Torley Tester:	Revolution: Which email addy?
[10:40]	Revolution Perenti:	torley@lindenlabs.com
[10:40]	Torley Tester:	It's just torley@lindenlab.com
[10:40]	Torley Tester:	No "S". :)
[10:40]	Revolution Perenti:	lol
[10:40]	Tao Takashi:	LL should really change it's name to Lab_s_ ;-)
[10:40]	Tao Takashi:	as everybody seems to use it anyway
[10:40]	Torley Tester:	K, I just removed "UI" component from VWR-1115.
[10:40]	WarKirby Magojiro:	heh
[10:40]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks Torley
[10:40]	Benjamin Linden:	ok next up
[10:40]	Revolution Perenti:	ok thanks i resend those
[10:41]	Iridium Linden:	What did we change the component to?
[10:41]	WarKirby Magojiro:	2251 now ?
[10:41]	Torley Tester:	Iridium: Nothing.
[10:41]	Iridium Linden:	yeah, kk.
[10:41]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2251
[10:42]	Wyn Galbraith:	Didn't Rev fix that one?
[10:42]	Torley Tester:	Huzzah Rev!
[10:42]	Tao Takashi:	the landmark thing is confusing indeed
[10:42]	Iridium Linden:	We should have a "tool" component
[10:42]	Roof Doors:	WarKirby Magojiro is at the door.
[10:42]	Iridium Linden:	But that's prolly too broad.
[10:42]	Revolution Perenti:	not this one
[10:42]	Revolution Perenti:	but i can if you like
[10:42]	WarKirby Magojiro:	This is my issue ^^
[10:42]	Saijanai Kuhn has been asking for an LSL component for jira for quite some time...
[10:42]	Seg Baphomet:	Yes, the landmark thing confused me from day 1 and still does. ;P
[10:42]	Wyn Galbraith:	I thought you said you did? Or were you just tired that night and thought you fixed everything
[10:43]	Benjamin Linden:	landmarks are changing with search as well
[10:43]	WarKirby Magojiro:	oh ?
[10:43]	WarKirby Magojiro:	how so ?
[10:43]	Benjamin Linden:	there will be a more detailed panel of information about the location
[10:43]	WarKirby Magojiro:	this wouldn't be hard to add as an interim fix though, perhaps ?
[10:44]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm not sure about the save/discard stuff on it
[10:44]	Revolution Perenti:	talking about lms i want a to be able to delete lm from my map menu ^^
[10:44]	Benjamin Linden:	there is also a related bug to this one, about needing to click "Keep" twice
[10:44]	WarKirby Magojiro:	never seen that one
[10:45]	Seg Baphomet:	Yes, the new notecard "feature". ;P
[10:45]	Revolution Perenti:	would you like me to take a look over the source on this one torley
[10:45]	Tao Takashi:	shouldn't the inventory giving be overhauled in general?
[10:45]	Saijanai Kuhn:	sounds like mouse focus issues. I've noticed several places where the first click doesn't take
[10:45]	Tao Takashi:	like the same dialog whenever you get something`?
[10:45]	Tao Takashi:	right now it's different with each objevt
[10:45]	Tao Takashi:	object
[10:45]	Tao Takashi:	object type actually
[10:45]	Benjamin Linden:	Seg do you have the link to that jira by any chance?
[10:46]	Benjamin Linden:	for the notecards
[10:46]	Seg Baphomet:	No idea.
[10:46]	Torley Tester:	Tao: There is a Preferences option that makes the same...
[10:46]	Benjamin Linden:	ok I'll see if I can find it
[10:46]	Boroondas Gupte:	it's double odd, if you got the object from a group notice, because you already clicked there to get it ...
[10:46]	Torley Tester:	Preferences > Popups tab.
[10:46]	Benjamin Linden:	you're right Tao, we need to revisit this and look at *all* the inventory types
[10:47]	Tao Takashi:	maybe some dialog with a general part (OK, Discard, whatever) and some detail part about the object below that
[10:47]	Seg Baphomet:	It confused me at first that getting a note card and just closing it left it in my inventory.
[10:47]	WarKirby Magojiro:	Aside from landmarks being a little confusing, I haven't really noticed any ptovlems with the dialogs
[10:47]	Tao Takashi:	and once we have these object previews.... ;-)
[10:47]	Seg Baphomet:	Considering so much stuff hands you note cards left and right.
[10:47]	Iridium Linden:	So what should we do with this?
[10:47]	Benjamin Linden:	let's go ahead and import this
[10:47]	Iridium Linden:	kk
[10:47]	Iridium Linden:	Importing
[10:47]	WarKirby Magojiro:	^^
[10:47]	Revolution Perenti:	how comes there so much hardcoded stuff too like langs
[10:47]	Benjamin Linden:	Torley can you add RxTriage to the imported bug
[10:47]	Tao Takashi:	a simple "Save" button on the LM should be ok
[10:48]	Revolution Perenti:	lol not that im moaning becuase i read english
[10:48]	Iridium Linden:	2068, right?
[10:48]	Torley Tester:	Will do, after Iridium imports!
[10:48]	Torley Tester:	Synchronization!
[10:48]	Benjamin Linden:	lol ok
[10:48]	Torley Tester:	Iridium, VWR-2251.
[10:48]	WarKirby Magojiro:	torley is having a seizure
[10:48]	Revolution Perenti:	lol
[10:48]	Savannah Glimmer:	lol
[10:48]	Revolution Perenti:	she viewing around us lol
[10:49]	Benjamin Linden:	someone help Torley!
[10:49]	Benjamin Linden:	:-)
[10:49]	WarKirby Magojiro:	perhaps that's a jira worthy issue too
[10:49]	Revolution Perenti:	camera does that
[10:49]	Saijanai Kuhn:	that bot tends to do that I've noticed
[10:49]	Iridium Linden:	jeez, Torley, I'm getting an error.
[10:49]	Seg Baphomet:	lol integration
[10:49]	Torley Tester:	What's the error?
[10:49]	Torley Tester:	Haha I was looking at moving objects too much. :D
[10:49]	Torley Tester:	[SYSTEM ERROR]
[10:49]	Torley Tester:	LOL.
[10:50]	Iridium Linden:	got it.
[10:50]	Benjamin Linden:	ok what's next
[10:50]	Torley Tester:	I see it.
[10:50]	Iridium Linden:	*imported*
[10:50]	Benjamin Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2068
[10:50]	Torley Tester:	This could've been simplified.
[10:50]	Ruud Lathrop:	THat will be nice if fixed.
[10:51]	WarKirby Magojiro:	Losing inventory should be fixed, by returnuing to sender
[10:51]	Revolution Perenti:	this is a big problem more so with slex users too
[10:51]	Torley Tester:	Part of this sounds more like a new feature add than a bug.
[10:51]	WarKirby Magojiro:	but I don't think the busy mode behaviour ahouls be otherwise changed for now
[10:51]	Ruud Lathrop:	Make it a option to the user?
[10:51]	Torley Tester:	The problem is that sending stuff to someone who's busy puts the stuff in their trash with no indication.
[10:51]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm not sure I understand what the issue is
[10:51]	Benjamin Linden:	oh I see
[10:51]	Benjamin Linden:	yikes, that's terrible!
[10:51]	Revolution Perenti:	well need to change the status of busy mode to allow content becuase it refuses all content
[10:52]	Revolution Perenti:	even notecards are refused
[10:52]	WarKirby Magojiro:	hmm
[10:52]	Benjamin Linden:	refused or put in trash?
[10:52]	Benjamin Linden:	there's a difference
[10:52]	WarKirby Magojiro:	but if you don't WANT to recieve things
[10:52]	WarKirby Magojiro:	I think no copy items should return to sender
[10:52]	Kooky Jetaime:	Actually, make it an option Refuse/Deny/Friends
[10:52]	Revolution Perenti:	like for example if person 1 sends notecard to person b in busy mode you get declined message
[10:52]	Wyn Galbraith:	Put in 'while you were out' folder.
[10:52]	WarKirby Magojiro:	copyable items just vanish
[10:52]	Ruud Lathrop:	So make it a option?
[10:52]	WarKirby Magojiro:	oh
[10:52]	WarKirby Magojiro:	that works too, perhaps
[10:52]	WarKirby Magojiro:	a new folde
[10:52]	Kooky Jetaime:	Refuse/Accept/Friends Only
[10:52]	Kooky Jetaime:	while busy
[10:53]	Benjamin Linden:	yes a different folder could work
[10:53]	Kooky Jetaime:	each type of transfer
[10:53]	Iridium Linden:	This is a long-standing issue that we are well aware of.
[10:53]	Tao Takashi:	an "Incoming" folder maybe
[10:53]	Iridium Linden:	It's a serious PITA.
[10:53]	Benjamin Linden:	but I still think it would be hard for someone to find
[10:53]	Wyn Galbraith:	Goodies you got while you weren't looking.
[10:53]	WarKirby Magojiro:	on the same lines, https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2325
[10:53]	Seg Baphomet:	Do we really need more preferences?
[10:53]	Benjamin Linden:	are there existing issues? oh thanks warkirby
[10:53]	Saijanai Kuhn:	while busy folder seems easiest
[10:53]	Benjamin Linden:	no Seg, we don't
[10:53]	WarKirby Magojiro:	I proposed that as an overall improvement to busy mode
[10:53]	Wyn Galbraith ponders her trash.
[10:53]	Revolution Perenti:	it does saij ?
[10:53]	Tao Takashi:	or maybe it can remember the stuff and you can work through it when you leave busy mode
[10:53]	Torley Tester:	Too many choices are confusing, especially for new Residents.
[10:54]	Kooky Jetaime:	An incomming folder would be Great for /everything/ so your inventory don't get mutteled with new stuff that you have find, based on the various ways of giving things.
[10:54]	Torley Tester:	It's always a tough balance between choices and simplicity.
[10:54]	Wyn Galbraith:	Incoming, that's good.
[10:54]	Revolution Perenti:	maybe something we could edit in our options to allow people like a safe list
[10:54]	WarKirby Magojiro:	that's what an "Advanced options" tab is for
[10:54]	Saijanai Kuhn:	an incoming folder with subfolders based on the way it was given?
[10:54]	Kooky Jetaime:	Like some things come in as a folder, some things come in a box (and go to objects), and some things are sent individually so 1 puchase can end up in Notecards, Clothes, and Objects
[10:54]	Tao Takashi:	basically it could present some list of new objects you either received during logoff or during busy mode
[10:54]	WarKirby Magojiro:	hide the complicated stuff
[10:54]	Wyn Galbraith knew you kept me around for something.
[10:55]	Tao Takashi:	actually boxes of stuff should be openable in your inventory IMHO
[10:55]	Iridium Linden:	Right, Tao.
[10:55]	Tao Takashi:	as folder like objects
[10:55]	Benjamin Linden:	I don't think the description in this particular bug is very clear
[10:55]	Tao Takashi:	would also be easier with scripts etc
[10:55]	Saijanai Kuhn:	or at least you should be able to see the inventory of a box
[10:55]	Revolution Perenti:	lol i want ablity to zip a whole folder to 1 archive :D
[10:55]	Benjamin Linden:	I'd like to see a better bug report before importing it
[10:55]	WarKirby Magojiro:	it's far from clear, ben
[10:55]	Iridium Linden:	We should talk to Phoenix about this before we import though.
[10:55]	Iridium Linden:	Yeah, agreed, Benjamin.
[10:55]	Torley Tester:	I think VWR-2068 could be written a lot better.
[10:55]	Torley Tester:	There's some context which isn't clear.
[10:55]	Tao Takashi:	and with a lot less chat ;-)
[10:55]	WarKirby Magojiro:	the main issue seems to be content loss if the rreciever is in busy mode
[10:56]	Benjamin Linden:	let's mark this as need more info. but I would like to see if there are other related Jiras we can import
[10:56]	WarKirby Magojiro:	try closing as needs more info for now
[10:56]	Torley Tester:	OK...
[10:56]	Iridium Linden:	Yus, WarKirby.
[10:56]	Torley Tester:	*marks*
[10:56]	Benjamin Linden:	ok next
[10:56]	Wyn Galbraith:	Neet to overhaul inventory.
[10:56]	Iridium Linden:	But we really would need to talk to Phoenix about this.
[10:56]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-443
[10:56]	Revolution Perenti:	if this would be changed im sure it would inimprove metrics for loss
[10:57]	Tao Takashi:	speaking about deeding I think this is also a very confusing topic in general
[10:57]	WarKirby Magojiro doesn't quite understand this one
[10:57]	Boroondas Gupte agrees with Tao concerning opening boxes: I actually put that on the old feature voting website ... probably should put it to jira
[10:57]	WarKirby Magojiro:	precisely
[10:57]	Seg Baphomet:	Hey, is there some place to report inventory loss? ;P
[10:57]	WarKirby Magojiro:	the whole share/deed thing is hihly confusing to most people
[10:58]	Torley Tester:	Seg, currently, we do it through support tickets via http://secondlife.com/support
[10:58]	WarKirby Magojiro:	group tools need an overhaul
[10:58]	Benjamin Linden:	I agree WarKirby
[10:58]	Saijanai Kuhn has a minor meta issue...
[10:58]	Revolution Perenti:	wants mute group option :P
[10:58]	Seg Baphomet:	I went to edit my ZHAO config. And the notcard is "missing from database". ;P
[10:58]	WarKirby Magojiro agrees with Revolution
[10:58]	Torley Tester:	Ugh Seg, that sounds like another issue I've seen before.
[10:59]	Ruud Lathrop:	Everybody has that issue, seg
[10:59]	WarKirby Magojiro:	happenes to me yesterday, but worked on the second attempt
[10:59]	Saijanai Kuhn:	about that meta issue...
[10:59]	Seg Baphomet:	How so?
[10:59]	Wyn Galbraith:	Speak up Saijanai.
[10:59]	Saijanai Kuhn:	utf-8 2-4 byte chars
[11:00]	Seg Baphomet:	I've tried bunches of times over a few days. It seems to be gone. ;P
[11:00]	Saijanai Kuhn:	when discussing all these issues, both for UI fixes and programming, you ignore international font issues
[11:00]	Benjamin Linden:	I need to test this out because I'm not sure I Understand the the problem
[11:00]	Ruud Lathrop:	Yeap a object inside a object sometimes disappear
[11:00]	Saijanai Kuhn:	strings are 255 bytes, which is 255 English chars, but only 82 Japanese chars
[11:01]	WarKirby Magojiro:	seems like deeding should bypass sharing
[11:01]	Benjamin Linden:	that's what it does, right?
[11:01]	Revolution Perenti:	not really seen this i need to do a repo
[11:01]	WarKirby Magojiro:	hmm
[11:01]	Benjamin Linden:	once you deed the option is grayed out
[11:01]	Saskeh Akina:	your hair
[11:01]	Wyn Galbraith:	The solution for international font issues is to make the byte big enough for the extended chars.
[11:01]	Saskeh Akina:	aquisted
[11:01]	WarKirby Magojiro:	I think sharing with group allows anyone in the group to do things with the object
[11:01]	Revolution Perenti:	i only see the deed grayed out when share with group is not enabled
[11:01]	Ruud Lathrop:	aquisted???
[11:01]	Saijanai Kuhn:	so any/all UI and programming solutinos need to be adjusted to allow for they multi-byte char issue
[11:01]	WarKirby Magojiro:	whereasm deeding allows only those who have the proper role permission
[11:02]	Tao Takashi:	WarKirby: unfortunately not with the contents of that object ;-)
[11:02]	Benjamin Linden:	hmm there seems to be an issue with the way these two interract, I think we should import this
[11:02]	WarKirby Magojiro:	and sharing seems to override deeding
[11:02]	WarKirby Magojiro nods
[11:02]	WarKirby Magojiro:	but it also warrants discussion
[11:02]	Revolution Perenti:	what can you get same rights as a deed ?
[11:02]	WarKirby Magojiro:	as to what the solution should be
[11:02]	WarKirby Magojiro:	it's not really clear cut
[11:03]	Tao Takashi:	actually deeding should somehow go away, as it seems to change the object in some no undoable way IIRC
[11:03]	Benjamin Linden:	we'll look at it some more
[11:03]	WarKirby Magojiro:	Rao.
[11:03]	Benjamin Linden:	ok folks we're out of time!
[11:03]	WarKirby Magojiro:	Tao. Deeding counts as a transfer
[11:03]	WarKirby Magojiro:	so you need to set next owner perms
[11:03]	Iridium Linden:	So what are we doing with 443?
[11:04]	Benjamin Linden:	Warkirby would you please add your thoughts to this bug
[11:04]	Benjamin Linden:	we're importing it Iridium
[11:04]	Wyn Galbraith:	I've noticed that sometimes items that are deeded aren't editable later. But nothing concrete to base a bug on yet.
[11:04]	WarKirby Magojiro nods
[11:04]	Seg Baphomet:	Erk. Whats a basic account? ;P
[11:04]	Iridium Linden:	ah, kk, importing then.
[11:04]	WarKirby Magojiro:	I think we need a seperate triage for group issues
[11:04]	WarKirby Magojiro:	the whole matter is a bit too different from UI issues
[11:04]	Revolution Perenti:	I Think so too
[11:04]	Iridium Linden:	Ah, torley already got to it.
[11:04]	Iridium Linden:	ack
[11:04]	Torley Tester:	Oh, Bridie did.
[11:04]	Torley Tester:	She got that one before it looks like.
[11:04]	Torley Tester:	Wow, that was yesterday.
[11:05]	Benjamin Linden:	oh ok
[11:05]	Wyn Galbraith just noticed Benjamin's shoes, "Good for getting bugs in corners."
[11:05]	Benjamin Linden:	lol @ Wyn
[11:05]	Benjamin Linden:	or for fending off angry Residents :-)
[11:05]	Revolution Perenti:	lol
[11:05]	Wyn Galbraith:	LOL Benjamin
[11:05]	Benjamin Linden:	alright folks, thanks for coming
[11:05]	WarKirby Magojiro smiles
[11:05]	Benjamin Linden:	see you Thursday!
[11:05]	Torley Tester:	Yup thanks everyone!
[11:05]	WarKirby Magojiro:	it was a please
[11:05]	Wyn Galbraith:	B-bye!!! :D
[11:05]	Revolution Perenti:	thanks again Ben :)
[11:06]	Seg Baphomet:	/support/ doesn't seem to think I'm allowed to report inventory loss.
[11:06]	Revolution Perenti:	nice to see you again Torley :)
[11:06]	WarKirby Magojiro:	I'm going to redo the urler to work with general chat, then
[11:06]	Torley Tester:	:D
[11:06]	Torley Tester:	You too!
[11:06]	Revolution Perenti:	and dont forget Iridium :)
[11:06]	Saskeh Akina:	qui c'è qualche Italiano ?
[11:06]	Torley Tester:	Thanks for being with us and helping...
[11:06]	Revolution Perenti:	i'll email you this afternoon
[11:06]	Torley Tester:	thanks for manning the queue, Iridium.
[11:06]	Torley Tester:	Bye for now all. =)
[11:06]	Ruud Lathrop:	bye all