User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2008-03-20
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Revision as of 16:03, 4 April 2008 by Benjamin Linden (talk | contribs) (New page: Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours: {| |- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;" | | [2008/03/20 15: | style="white-space:normal;"|...)
Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:
| [2008/03/20 15: | 02] Malbers Linden: Hello Everyone. | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 02] Jacek Antonelli: Hi Malbers! | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 02] Jacek Antonelli: Hi Kooky | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 03] Kooky Jetaime: only here until I get the new rc | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 03] Malbers Linden: dang, all these chairs make me look stupid | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 03] Jacek Antonelli: hehe | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 04] Kooky Jetaime: brb | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 04] Kooky Jetaime: just float :) | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 04] Malbers Linden: yep, I'll just float in tis corner. | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 04] Malbers Linden: I'm running the new RC. | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 04] Malbers Linden: but, I didn't have too many problems with the | |
| old RC | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 05] Malbers Linden: what's new and exciting in the worlds of | |
| Jacek and Squirrel? | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 05] Jacek Antonelli: Hmm, that's a good question! | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 05] Kooky Jetaime: You guys so need a new installer | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 06] Kooky Jetaime: I'm tired of deleting shortcuts | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 06] Malbers Linden: ah, an installer for Windows? | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 06] Kooky Jetaime: yep | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 06] Kooky Jetaime: every time I install a version | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 06] Kooky Jetaime: I'm stuck with a crapload of new
??? shortcuts | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 06] Kooky Jetaime: which all get deltetd | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 06] Kooky Jetaime: er deleted | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 06] Jacek Antonelli: ew | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 06] Malbers Linden: I could be a lot happier with the installer | |
| for Mac too. | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 06] Malbers Linden: I'm not that familiar with tour Windows
??? installer. | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 07] Malbers Linden: do we put shortcuts on teh desktop? | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 07] Kooky Jetaime: yes | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 07] Kooky Jetaime: and the start menu | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 07] Kooky Jetaime: no option | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 07] Squirrel Wood: Hello, hello! | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 07] Kooky Jetaime: actually, the only option is where | |
| to put it | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 07] Malbers Linden: the Start menu makes sense | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 07] Kooky Jetaime: and to start SL after its done. | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 07] Squirrel Wood: News... I'm too lazy to translate | |
| my resume :p | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 07] Malbers Linden: "where to put it" == disk /folder location? | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 07] Jacek Antonelli: Linux doesn't even have an | |
| (official) installer. ^_^ But I have a script that downloads the new | ||
| version, unpacks it, and updates my symlinks :D | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 07] Kooky Jetaime: Malbers -- not when you have custom | |
| made your Start menu and have moved things | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 08] Kooky Jetaime: I've got 3 columns of folders | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 08] Malbers Linden: hmmm. Power Windows user. | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 08] Kooky Jetaime: Yep :) | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 08] Malbers Linden: don't most installers fuck that up too? | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 08] Kooky Jetaime: I've moved SL groups to my Internet
??? folder | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 09] Kooky Jetaime: first time, yes | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 09] Kooky Jetaime: or they let you say where to put | |
| the folder | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 09] Kooky Jetaime: SL just makes, and assumes where we | |
| want it | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 09] Kooky Jetaime: which it puts under "All Users" too | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 09] Malbers Linden: ah, then their upgrade/update installers | |
| respect you r initial choices? | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 10] Malbers Linden: I know for the Mac installer, it is just an
??? installer. | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 10] Malbers Linden: Not an Upgrader. | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 10] Malbers Linden: your previous choices/preferences may or may | |
| not get respected | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 10] Squirrel Wood: I gather Ben is still in a meeting ? | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 10] Malbers Linden: yep, he | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 10] Kooky Jetaime: Usually an updater won't do icons | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 10] Malbers Linden: oop | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 10] Kooky Jetaime: unless theres a new one to be made | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 11] Malbers Linden: Yep, he will be here but is running a couple | |
| minutes behind | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 11] Kooky Jetaime: And other stuff usually just looks | |
| where it was made the first time | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 11] Kooky Jetaime: or lets you skip (if not both) | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 11] Malbers Linden: Right, the big point is that an Updater is | |
| not an Installer (exactly) | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 11] Malbers Linden: It has special things it has to do | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 12] Kooky Jetaime: But your installer should ask "make
??? icons?" | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 12] Malbers Linden: mostly around looking for old settings to | |
| propogate to the new release | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 12] Squirrel Wood: You need an updater that queries a | |
| reference file and then updates/replaces outdated files on the client | ||
| side... MUCH less download neccessary and no complete "installation"
??? required. | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 12] Kooky Jetaime: yea | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 12] Kooky Jetaime: everyone is now downloading $35 a pop | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 12] Kooky Jetaime: er | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 12] Kooky Jetaime: 35MB a pop | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 12] Kooky Jetaime: per update no matter how
??? insignificant | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 13] Kooky Jetaime: how much of that really changes? | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 13] Kooky Jetaime: Especailly moving from one RC to | |
| the next | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 13] Malbers Linden: Yeah, I never understand why people think | |
| installers can wait to be the last hting to develop for a product | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 14] Malbers Linden: Yes, dealing with installers/upgraders for | |
| Beta/RC/FirstLook is a whole extra set of complication | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 14] Malbers Linden: Hi Tegg -- didn't mean to ignore ou | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 14] Tegg Bode: But that is peanuts compared to how | |
| mamny times we download tha same brick wall texture :) | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 14] Jacek Antonelli: hehe | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 14] Kooky Jetaime: I wish the cache would get its act
??? together | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 14] Tegg Bode: np :) | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 15] Squirrel Wood: the cache as it is now, is | |
| hopelessly inefficient | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 15] Kooky Jetaime: but the thing is, the cache should | |
| be the most efficient thing here, since its impossible to have stale | ||
| stuff in the cache | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 15] Kooky Jetaime: there are no 2 thigns with the same
??? uuid | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 15] Tegg Bode: I think there should be some standard | |
| user content like floors & wall prims/textures | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 16] Kooky Jetaime: oh | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 16] Kooky Jetaime: while we're not in full swing | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 16] Kooky Jetaime: does anyone need a big chunk of | |
| land for a house | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 16] Kooky Jetaime: great sim | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 16] Kooky Jetaime: quiet | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 16] Kooky Jetaime: very quiet | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 16] Kooky Jetaime: 18K | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 16] Squirrel Wood: I couldn't hope to afford it | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 17] Squirrel Wood: don't make enough money on SL to | |
| support it :p | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 17] Malbers Linden: the only thing that we (Rx) is working on | |
| right now that is related to the cache is a new Ruth appearance | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 17] Tegg Bode: Who knows how many red brick wall | |
| textures are now in the database that most people couldn't tell apart
??? too :) | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 17] Kooky Jetaime: well, what I'd love to see | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 17] Kooky Jetaime: is a frigging way to sort inventory | |
| by uuid | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 17] Kooky Jetaime: so I could delete all the dups | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 17] Kooky Jetaime: I've got 17K items in my inventory | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 17] Kooky Jetaime: probably only about 12K are unique | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 18] Tegg Bode: Yes I try to stay under 8k, I give away | |
| or delete :) | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 18] Malbers Linden: so deleting duplicates is the big issue | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 18] Jacek Antonelli: Elvis has entered the office hours! | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 18] Malbers Linden: could that be automated? | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 18] EIvis Presley: Uhhh huhh | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 18] Malbers Linden: Hey Elvis? | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 18] Kooky Jetaime: well | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 18] Kooky Jetaime: maybe | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 18] EIvis Presley: Hey | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 18] Malbers Linden: oop -- simply HEy Elvis! | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 19] Kooky Jetaime: but the key is deleting them in a | |
| way that if you have half of them sorted | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 19] Tegg Bode: WoW cool AV, and a cool name, how did | |
| you swing it? | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 19] EIvis Presley: Bit of luck :P | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 19] Lorlori Domhan: wewps! sorry | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 19] Tegg Bode: And Prscilla too, well done :) | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 19] Malbers Linden: Hi Priscilla | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 19] EIvis Presley: :P | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 20] Malbers Linden: Welcome Lorlori | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 20] Kooky Jetaime: no kidding | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 20] Kooky Jetaime: thats pure.. luck | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 20] Lorlori Domhan: Hello :c) I'm hunting beeaaaars! | |
| Benjamin Linden don't happen to have a bear infestation here do you? | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 20] Kooky Jetaime: hheheh | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 20] Malbers Linden: back to dupes -- maybe a way to find and tag | |
| them to help you delete the "right" one? | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 20] Kooky Jetaime: I've got 20 of em | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 20] Tegg Bode: It's been 12 months since I seen an | |
| Elvis, used to have supergroups of them on city of Heroes :) | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 21] Kooky Jetaime: yea | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 21] Kooky Jetaime: that would work even | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 21] Kooky Jetaime: but sorting 17,000 objects, I'm | |
| sure even you would have trouble navagating | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 21] Malbers Linden: Sorry Lorlori. I'm a lame Linden that way. I | |
| don't have a bear designed yet. | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 21] Kooky Jetaime: Especially with the measly little
??? window | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 22] Tegg Bode: Yes, even with $8k I keep finding | |
| things I thought I had lost, they are just in the wrong folder :) | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 22] Lorlori Domhan: ok :c) I'm a builder if you would | |
| like me to make one for you *used car-salesman grin* | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 22] Jacek Antonelli: Yeah, if you could tag the ones | |
| that are "keepers", and shouldn't be deleted as dups | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 22] Kooky Jetaime: Perhaps even a little popup when | |
| someone tries giving you an item, it can pop up : "You already have | ||
| this item, accept again, show original in inventory" | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 22] Kooky Jetaime: would be great for these stores | |
| that insist on dropping notecards and LM's on you | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 22] Jacek Antonelli: That would be neat, Kooky | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 22] Malbers Linden: yes, for duplicates, it' would need to be a | |
| sort-and-filter kind of thing | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 22] Tegg Bode: Hm just make a stick one with a pair of | |
| bear ears :) | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 22] Kooky Jetaime: Jacek - put it in the Jira, and you | |
| can claim credit | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 23] Kooky Jetaime: I don't wanna.. I feel ucky right
??? now. | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 23] Malbers Linden: Gotta figure out how to make a jelly-gummy-bear | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 23] Kooky Jetaime: but it could be handled all client | |
| side, since the client should have a list of every UUID in your
??? inventory. | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 23] Jacek Antonelli: And if you could auto-refuse | |
| duplicates (go straight into trash -- so you could dig them out if you | ||
| needed to.) With a notice of course, so you know to maybe look | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 24] Tegg Bode: Hmm that would look cool, is there a | |
| bear museum somewhere so people can see the ones they need to collect? | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 24] Kooky Jetaime: Nope TEgg | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 24] Kooky Jetaime: You can get Meta's in his office | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 24] Kooky Jetaime: but his is protected by a security | |
| system you need to crack. | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 24] Kooky Jetaime: :) | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 24] Malbers Linden: You have to prove you are worthy of Meta's | |
| bear that way? | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 24] Jacek Antonelli: hehehe | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 25] Tegg Bode: Cool a challenge :) | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 25] Squirrel Wood: There is a place where you can see | |
| many of the bears.... | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 25] Kooky Jetaime: yep | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 25] Kooky Jetaime: oh lets see | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 25] Kooky Jetaime: oh wait | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 25] Kooky Jetaime: can't build here | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 25] Squirrel Wood: Linden Estate Services sim ... | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 25] Tegg Bode: AH ok will check it out :) | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 25] Squirrel Wood: One of the Lindens has a nice | |
| collection of bears set out there | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 26] Kooky Jetaime: Malbers you need to make one | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 26] Malbers Linden: yes, i do. it always seems just below the | |
| line for important things to do | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 26] Jacek Antonelli: hehe | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 26] Malbers Linden: someday i'll be so ashamed I'll jsut crank it
??? out | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 27] Squirrel Wood: I just made a wooden box and named | |
| it "Bear Inside" :p | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 27] Tegg Bode: lol | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 27] Kooky Jetaime: yay | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 27] Kooky Jetaime: notecards are fixed | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 27] Malbers Linden: "fixed"? | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 27] Squirrel Wood: The Cake Has A Pie! | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 27] Tegg Bode: that would be funnt with a notecard | |
| giver that say IOU a bear :) | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 28] Jacek Antonelli: Escape takes away focus from | |
| notecards now \o/ -- is that the fixed you mean, Kooky? | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 28] Kooky Jetaime: thats | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 29] Kooky Jetaime: Ekim's bear | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 29] Tegg Bode: Ah I fell like I'm 14months newer to
??? SL :) | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 29] Jacek Antonelli: hehe box-head! | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 29] Squirrel Wood: read the box description :p | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 29] Jacek Antonelli: Hehehe | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 29] Malbers Linden: I thought you were a kangaroo | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 29] Kooky Jetaime: Rika's | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 30] Malbers Linden: box-headed kangaroo | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 30] Tegg Bode: lol yes it's not even hollow :) | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 30] Malbers Linden: I'm sure we've talked about htis before.... | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 31] Malbers Linden: for things like Inventory, would it be good | |
| to have a web-based Ui | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 31] Kooky Jetaime: Robin's | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 31] Malbers Linden: to manage things outside of SL? | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 31] Kooky Jetaime: well | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 31] Kooky Jetaime: but you'd need full UI | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 31] Kooky Jetaime: maybe | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 31] Kooky Jetaime: drag, drop | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 31] Kooky Jetaime: etc | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 31] Kooky Jetaime: Malbers, I'd kill for a "Cut" command | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 31] Kooky Jetaime: so I could select something in one | |
| search and then paste it to another folder | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 31] Kooky Jetaime: without doing 2 windows | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 31] Jacek Antonelli: yeah | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 32] Tegg Bode: Hmm would be good if some of the new | |
| viewer makers improved the Inventory a lot :) | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 32] Kooky Jetaime: if you don't paste it back into | |
| inventory, it won't delet | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 32] Malbers Linden: Inventory is such a dumping ground for
??? everything | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 32] Kooky Jetaime: delete | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 32] Kooky Jetaime: but | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 32] Kooky Jetaime: Malbers - | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 32] Kooky Jetaime: Something to suggest to the right
??? people | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 32] Tegg Bode: YEs even jus being able to save TP's | |
| would be good, when you find something you have to tp to it to | ||
| landmark it | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 32] Kooky Jetaime: If it would be possible to clean up | |
| the inventory | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 32] Kooky Jetaime: it might help asset issues | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 33] Kooky Jetaime: imagine how much smaller the Asset | |
| Database would be without the millions of duplicate entries | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 33] Malbers Linden: Oh, it would help aset loss issues (just by | |
| cleaning up the code) | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 33] Kooky Jetaime: LM's being the worse | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 33] Malbers Linden: it would also help new residents (since it is | |
| so damn confusing right now) | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 33] Kooky Jetaime: like some stores putting a LM in | |
| every frigging item, so you end up with tons from the same place. | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 33] Squirrel Wood: many many many many many scripts | |
| reference textures and sounds by uuid. if you remove the duplicates, | ||
| many would stop working... | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 33] Jacek Antonelli: Yeah. Every thing you buy from a | |
| store tries to put a LM in your inventory :D | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 34] Squirrel Wood: unless you remap them somehow to | |
| the proper entries | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 34] Malbers Linden: I kinda wish we had specialized containers | |
| for stuff | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 34] Kooky Jetaime: I still | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 34] Jacek Antonelli: Squirrel: not removing the | |
| duplicate assets (in terms of UUID, there are no duplicates) | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 34] Kooky Jetaime: STILL | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 34] Malbers Linden: Wardrobe for clothes | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 34] Kooky Jetaime: would love to see a "New Arrivals"
??? folder | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 34] Malbers Linden: Map++ for Landmarks | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 34] Kooky Jetaime: that everything dumped into that | |
| was new | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 34] Jacek Antonelli: Just cleaning up inventory so | |
| that you don't have 10 different items all with the same asset UUID | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 34] Jacek Antonelli: YES. | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 34] Jacek Antonelli: New Arrivals. Inbox. | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 34] Malbers Linden: right, would still need something for | |
| undefinable objects | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 34] Jacek Antonelli: Please | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 35] Kooky Jetaime: because | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 35] Kooky Jetaime: I'm tired of people doing crappy | |
| scripting with a "Give All Inventory" script that sends you items one | ||
| at a time | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 35] Kooky Jetaime: and they all get sorted into | |
| different folders | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 35] Kooky Jetaime: had it happen yesterday | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 35] Malbers Linden: a lot of my thinking goes towards helping new | |
| residents orient themselves | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 35] Kooky Jetaime: oh | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 35] Kooky Jetaime: New residents | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 36] Kooky Jetaime: help us help them | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 36] Kooky Jetaime: swap out Orientation Island Public | |
| with the new OI | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 36] Jacek Antonelli: Plus, there are people who get a | |
| hundred new items from people in between logins. | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 36] Kooky Jetaime: OR add a new OIP | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 36] Kooky Jetaime: with the new layout | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 36] Kooky Jetaime: I brought someone in world last week | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 36] Kooky Jetaime: but couldn't tel lthem where in OI | |
| to go | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 36] Kooky Jetaime: since I've never seen it | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 36] Kooky Jetaime: and can't unless I create an alt | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 37] Malbers Linden: I introduced a friend last night. | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 37] Malbers Linden: over an hour and she could walk, put on a | |
| jacket, and drive a car (almost) | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 37] Jacek Antonelli: You know what would be a neat | |
| experiment? A competition where groups could make their own version of | ||
| the orientation island, and new users would randomly go to one of | ||
| them. And you'd have "Rankings" for the groups based on the retention | ||
| rate for people coming in on their island :D | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 37] Tegg Bode: Lol, wow, I'm still learning to drive :) | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 37] Kooky Jetaime: Mine couldn't | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 38] Malbers Linden: We have the Community Gateways wich is like
??? that. | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 38] Malbers Linden: these CGs have their own OIs | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 38] Jacek Antonelli: Yeah, but that's not a | |
| competition, and it only works for people going in through those | ||
| RegAPI sites | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 38] Kooky Jetaime: right | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 39] Tegg Bode: There are Private company OI's about I | |
| guess, , I send any Aussies to The Pond, but there are plenty of | ||
| others about | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 39] Kooky Jetaime: I'd like to be able to tell new | |
| people, make sure when your on OI, go here xxx, and make sure you | ||
| understand this... | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 39] Jacek Antonelli: The idea is to create a system | |
| for testing the effectiveness of different OI systems | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 39] Malbers Linden: yeah, the infrastructure is there | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 39] Jacek Antonelli: Right | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 39] Jacek Antonelli: Also, the competition helps to | |
| give some "drive" behind it | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 39] Kooky Jetaime: Why don't they just update OIP? | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 39] Jacek Antonelli: Even if there's no prize besides | |
| bragging rights | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 40] Malbers Linden: I don't know all the history for the OI but I | |
| do know that this is V2 or V3 of the OI | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 40] Jacek Antonelli: (Plus it leverages the old | |
| "crowdsourcing". Let the masses do it for you!) | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 41] Kooky Jetaime: but if new comers are on V3, why | |
| leave V2 available to everyone | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 41] Kooky Jetaime: there was obviously a rason to | |
| upgrade so upgrade the one that everyone can get to | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 41] Malbers Linden: yes yes, V1 and V2 are gone | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 41] Malbers Linden: The contest idea is intriguing | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 42] Malbers Linden: it's a lot of work | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 42] Jacek Antonelli: yeah | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 42] Malbers Linden: and our previous revisions haven't "moved the | |
| needle" enough to improve retention | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 42] Malbers Linden: (or not as much as we would have liked) | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 42] Malbers Linden: we'd need some kind of review of new ideas | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 43] Malbers Linden: (just to ensure there are no greifer OIs) | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 43] Jacek Antonelli: right | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 43] Malbers Linden: /hi Oldskool | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 44] Jacek Antonelli: Some sort of proposal system, | |
| where a group like New Citizens Inc. could submit a proposal, get it | ||
| approved and an island set up for them, and away they go | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 44] Jacek Antonelli: And some sort of review system, | |
| to make sure they're actually following up | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 44] Squirrel Wood: Humm. I think I may have an idea on | |
| how to present an interesting first experience to new players as well | ||
| as including a tutorial in the whole thing :) | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 44] Jacek Antonelli: Do tell, Squirrel! | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 45] Squirrel Wood: I have to work out some details first | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 45] Tegg Bode: Yes griefers at OI's can really ruin | |
| it, nothing like your pirst 2 minutes in SL buing pushed into a corner | ||
| by a naked deformed avatar talking foulest language L( | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 45] Malbers Linden: Going "meta", I think the retention issue is | |
| way more than just OI though | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 45] Squirrel Wood: but its a sort of multiple choice | |
| path coupled with some NPCs and freebie item givers and such | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 45] Kooky Jetaime: you know | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 46] Kooky Jetaime: Do the OI's have any sensors? | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 46] Kooky Jetaime: because maybe its a matter of | |
| breaking it down | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 46] Jacek Antonelli: Oh yes, there's more to retention | |
| than just OIs | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 46] Kooky Jetaime: for the first 10 minutes, all they | |
| need to do is walk, teach them the "wsad" shuffle | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 47] Malbers Linden: /hi McCabe | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 47] McCabe Maxsted waves | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 47] Jacek Antonelli: There are systems out there that | |
| monitor avatar arrival in a location, where they spend their time, and | ||
| where they leave | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 47] Jacek Antonelli: Some of them even make a map | |
| showing where they spent the most time | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 47] Malbers Linden: yes, I think walking and flying are too hard | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 48] Jacek Antonelli: And sitting! | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 48] Malbers Linden: -- too hard to learn | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 48] Jacek Antonelli: Sitting on anything without a sit | |
| target is a pain in the sitter | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 48] Malbers Linden: and sitting | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 48] Malbers Linden: and buying things | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 48] Jacek Antonelli: yep | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 48] Malbers Linden: and figuring out which things can be picked up | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 48] Malbers Linden: or touched | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 49] Jacek Antonelli: I did like that idea of the icons | |
| that James Linden discussed... 2 weeks ago? | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 49] Malbers Linden: right, that's the idea we are working on for | |
| some of these problems | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 49] McCabe Maxsted: (we're starting early?) | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 49] Jacek Antonelli: Although thinking about it some | |
| more, it would be nice for some special cases for builders to turn | ||
| them off. Secret doors and buttons | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 49] Malbers Linden: James is the Eng manager; Erica and Brent are | |
| the Rx folks working on it | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 49] Jacek Antonelli: We've been at it almost an hour,
??? McCabe | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 50] Tegg Bode: Maybe you could have a newbie seting | |
| tha renders a mark above items that are clickable :) | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 50] Jacek Antonelli: Time change trip you up? ^_^ | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 50] McCabe Maxsted: omg | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 50] McCabe Maxsted: d'oh | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 50] Malbers Linden: we are definitely exploring different | |
| settings for these icons | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 50] Malbers Linden: new residents and experienced residents need | |
| different levels of knowledge | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 50] Jacek Antonelli: yes | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 51] McCabe Maxsted nods in agreement | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 51] Malbers Linden: Hi JetZep | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 51] JetZep Zabelin: Hello! | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 52] Malbers Linden glad JetZep showed up -- almost as | |
| many "people" as nonpeople | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 52] Jacek Antonelli: hehe | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 52] McCabe Maxsted: so the icons are being tested out
??? now? | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 52] JetZep Zabelin: =) thank you | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 52] Malbers Linden: really jsut design explorations | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 52] Malbers Linden: there are lots of tough edge cases | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 52] Malbers Linden: the normal cases are very compelling | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 53] Tegg Bode: Lol, that's a pretty non-peoplish thing | |
| to say :) | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 53] Malbers Linden: showing where to sit, what to buy, what can | |
| be picked up | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 53] Malbers Linden: yeah, I was typing fast, couldn't think of a | |
| better term than "nonpeople" | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 53] McCabe Maxsted: what are the tough edge cases | |
| you're seeing? | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 53] Malbers Linden: should have gone with evolved beings | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 53] Tegg Bode: lol | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 54] Malbers Linden: edge cases like a wall of handbags for sale | |
| -- too many tiny icons in that case | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 54] Jacek Antonelli: Oh, I had an idea for dealing | |
| with things that you can perform multiple actions on (touch, buy, sit | ||
| on all available) -- have the icon for the "main action" ( == what | ||
| happens when you click on it), then have a plus-mark next to it to | ||
| show there are other actions available | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 54] Malbers Linden: edge case -- REAAALLY big prims | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 55] Malbers Linden: edge case -- linked prims (where to put the
??? icon) | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 55] Jacek Antonelli: indeed | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 55] Malbers Linden: edge case -- linked prims with more than one
??? action | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 55] Jacek Antonelli: whee | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 55] Malbers Linden: although Jacek just brainstormed a solution | |
| for that one | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 55] McCabe Maxsted: hehe :) | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 56] Tegg Bode: We need more non-people choices in the | |
| default avatars, maybe some robots or orcs? | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 56] Jacek Antonelli: Also, just throwing out an idea | |
| for builders -- make it a check box, next to the "When Left-clicked" | ||
| drop-down menu, that says something like "Show icon for this action" | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 56] Malbers Linden: I know there is a project looking at all- | |
| things-avatar but I'm ot directly plugged into it | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 56] Jacek Antonelli: Then builders can decide when | |
| it's appropriate for their object to show the icon | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 56] Jacek Antonelli: Solves the wall of handbags edge
??? case | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 57] Jacek Antonelli: And the secret button edge case | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 57] McCabe Maxsted: I really like that idea, in case | |
| someone wants to build something with a hidden action too | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 57] Malbers Linden: There is an obvious hard line to walk here... | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 57] Malbers Linden: enough control for reputable builders but not | |
| enough for griefers to fuck with people too much | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 57] Jacek Antonelli: yeah | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 58] McCabe Maxsted: it might be time enough to finally | |
| implement llteleportagent | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 58] Kooky Jetaime: Malbers - with linked prims, | |
| shouldn't it be located over the actionable prim? | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 58] McCabe Maxsted: teleporting could get its own icon | |
| so it wouldn't be confused with sit icons | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 58] Kooky Jetaime: Personally I'd love a "collide-sit" | |
| so you could walk into teleporters | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 58] Jacek Antonelli: Although... I'm not sure there's | |
| much potential for abuse here? What would griefers do, trick someone | ||
| into thinking they touch buy an object, but -- surprise -- they cant? | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 58] Kooky Jetaime: yea | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 59] McCabe Maxsted: or perhaps flood a view with a ton | |
| of empty touch_start objects to confuse people | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 59] Jacek Antonelli: I guess maybe they could do a big | |
| wall of tiny prims with icons | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 59] Jacek Antonelli: Psychic! | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 59] JetZep Zabelin: collide sit .. i like that idea | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 59] Tegg Bode: Hmm yes colide sit would be good, I | |
| guess it would be possible to shoot teleporters at people then too :) | ||
| [2008/03/20 15: | 59] McCabe Maxsted: :) | |
| [2008/03/20 15: | 59] Malbers Linden is starting to wonder if you all | |
| have griefer alts | ||
| [2008/03/20 16: | 00] Jacek Antonelli: hahaha | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 00] Kooky Jetaime: Nope | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 00] Jacek Antonelli: Nah, we use our mains ;) j/k | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 00] Malbers Linden: no, you do have to get inside their minds
??? sometimes | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 00] Squirrel Wood: Nah. But we have plenty of | |
| experience at being griefed ^^ | ||
| [2008/03/20 16: | 00] McCabe Maxsted: I think huge prims could be an | |
| acceptable edge case; they're mainly used to save prims on large | ||
| buildings, not for, say, "sit me on that 50m cube!" | ||
| [2008/03/20 16: | 00] Kooky Jetaime: yea | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 00] McCabe Maxsted: hehe | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 00] Tegg Bode: Lol I'm going to load up a gatling | |
| machine gun and spew out every Landmark in my list at you, till I hit
??? you :) | ||
| [2008/03/20 16: | 00] Kooky Jetaime: I actually have a neighbor that has | |
| an anti-griefer griefer | ||
| [2008/03/20 16: | 00] Jacek Antonelli: vigilante justice? | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 01] Kooky Jetaime: kinda | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 01] Kooky Jetaime: if you throw a cage within range of
??? it | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 01] Kooky Jetaime: it will cage you | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 01] Tegg Bode: nice :) | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 01] JetZep Zabelin: no i just liked it for the | |
| teleport idea.. no cages | ||
| [2008/03/20 16: | 01] Tegg Bode: I have a bird in my ear :) | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 01] Malbers Linden: Hhhhm. Well I guess Ben's little side issue | |
| turned into an hour long side issue | ||
| [2008/03/20 16: | 02] Squirrel Wood: ah well :) | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 02] McCabe Maxsted: what about the ones that orbit you | |
| even when build permission's turned off | ||
| [2008/03/20 16: | 02] Squirrel Wood: We still had fun here | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 02] Kooky Jetaime: you mean push permissions off? | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 02] JetZep Zabelin: Is Benjamin's office hour still at
??? 4pm? | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 02] McCabe Maxsted: I'm really sorry I missed it! | |
| Stupid time change | ||
| [2008/03/20 16: | 02] McCabe Maxsted thinks there should be two a week | |
| instead of one | ||
| [2008/03/20 16: | 02] Jacek Antonelli: 3pm | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 02] Malbers Linden: Great ideas about OI and object identification | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 02] JetZep Zabelin: hmm | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 02] Jacek Antonelli: Good thing we had Malbers here | |
| today! Yay, Malbers! \o/ | ||
| [2008/03/20 16: | 02] Malbers Linden: Office hours are from 3-4 SLT | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 02] McCabe Maxsted: no I mean build permission's off | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 02] JetZep Zabelin: my calendar is off | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 03] Tegg Bode: Should try making it when you are | |
| 18hours out of synch :) | ||
| [2008/03/20 16: | 03] Malbers Linden: Thanks Jacek | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 03] McCabe Maxsted: you can't rez objects but somehow | |
| they get you with an orbiter | ||
| [2008/03/20 16: | 03] Kooky Jetaime: hmm | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 03] Malbers Linden: Thanks for your time and bainstorming ideas. | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 03] McCabe Maxsted always wondered how that one worked | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 03] Malbers Linden: I'm outta here. | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 03] Kooky Jetaime: ok | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 03] Squirrel Wood: they rez objects outside the | |
| parcel, then move them over. | ||
| [2008/03/20 16: | 03] McCabe Maxsted: take care malbers | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 03] Kooky Jetaime: whats Ctrl-Alt-Shift-H? | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 03] Tegg Bode: I had to head to this meeting on Friday | |
| to make on Thursday | ||
| [2008/03/20 16: | 03] Jacek Antonelli: Okay, take care Malbers | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 03] McCabe Maxsted: try it and find out ;) | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 04] Kooky Jetaime: let me guess | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 04] Kooky Jetaime: another bug | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 04] Squirrel Wood: Have fun Malbers :) | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 04] Kooky Jetaime: that sends you home | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 04] McCabe Maxsted: knaw easter egg | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 04] Squirrel Wood: and Hoppy Easter and such | |
| [2008/03/20 16: | 04] Jacek Antonelli: Hippos! | |