User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2008-03-20

Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:

[15:02]	Malbers Linden:	Hello Everyone.
[15:02]	Jacek Antonelli:	Hi Malbers!
[15:02]	Jacek Antonelli:	Hi Kooky
[15:03]	Kooky Jetaime:	only here until I get the new rc
[15:03]	Malbers Linden:	dang, all these chairs make me look stupid
[15:03]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehe
[15:04]	Kooky Jetaime:	brb
[15:04]	Kooky Jetaime:	just float :)
[15:04]	Malbers Linden:	yep, I'll just float in tis corner.
[15:04]	Malbers Linden:	I'm running the new RC.
[15:04]	Malbers Linden:	but, I didn't have too many problems with theold RC
[15:05]	Malbers Linden:	what's new and exciting in the worlds ofJacek and Squirrel?
[15:05]	Jacek Antonelli:	Hmm, that's a good question!
[15:05]	Kooky Jetaime:	You guys so need a new installer
[15:06]	Kooky Jetaime:	I'm tired of deleting shortcuts
[15:06]	Malbers Linden:	ah, an installer for Windows?
[15:06]	Kooky Jetaime:	yep
[15:06]	Kooky Jetaime:	every time I install a version
[15:06]	Kooky Jetaime:	I'm stuck with a crapload of newshortcuts
[15:06]	Kooky Jetaime:	which all get deltetd
[15:06]	Kooky Jetaime:	er deleted
[15:06]	Jacek Antonelli:	ew
[15:06]	Malbers Linden:	I could be a lot happier with the installerfor Mac too.
[15:06]	Malbers Linden:	I'm not that familiar with tour Windowsinstaller.
[15:07]	Malbers Linden:	do we put shortcuts on teh desktop?
[15:07]	Kooky Jetaime:	yes
[15:07]	Kooky Jetaime:	and the start menu
[15:07]	Kooky Jetaime:	no option
[15:07]	Squirrel Wood:	Hello, hello!
[15:07]	Kooky Jetaime:	actually, the only option is whereto put it
[15:07]	Malbers Linden:	the Start menu makes sense
[15:07]	Kooky Jetaime:	and to start SL after its done.
[15:07]	Squirrel Wood:	News... I'm too lazy to translatemy resume :p
[15:07]	Malbers Linden:	"where to put it" == disk /folder location?
[15:07]	Jacek Antonelli:	Linux doesn't even have an(official) installer. ^_^ But I have a script that downloads the newversion, unpacks it, and updates my symlinks :D
[15:07]	Kooky Jetaime:	Malbers -- not when you have custommade your Start menu and have moved things
[15:08]	Kooky Jetaime:	I've got 3 columns of folders
[15:08]	Malbers Linden:	hmmm. Power Windows user.
[15:08]	Kooky Jetaime:	Yep :)
[15:08]	Malbers Linden:	don't most installers fuck that up too?
[15:08]	Kooky Jetaime:	I've moved SL groups to my Internetfolder
[15:09]	Kooky Jetaime:	first time, yes
[15:09]	Kooky Jetaime:	or they let you say where to putthe folder
[15:09]	Kooky Jetaime:	SL just makes, and assumes where wewant it
[15:09]	Kooky Jetaime:	which it puts under "All Users" too
[15:09]	Malbers Linden:	ah, then their upgrade/update installersrespect you r initial choices?
[15:10]	Malbers Linden:	I know for the Mac installer, it is just aninstaller.
[15:10]	Malbers Linden:	Not an Upgrader.
[15:10]	Malbers Linden:	your previous choices/preferences may or maynot get respected
[15:10]	Squirrel Wood:	I gather Ben is still in a meeting ?
[15:10]	Malbers Linden:	yep, he
[15:10]	Kooky Jetaime:	Usually an updater won't do icons
[15:10]	Malbers Linden:	oop
[15:10]	Kooky Jetaime:	unless theres a new one to be made
[15:11]	Malbers Linden:	Yep, he will be here but is running a coupleminutes behind
[15:11]	Kooky Jetaime:	And other stuff usually just lookswhere it was made the first time
[15:11]	Kooky Jetaime:	or lets you skip (if not both)
[15:11]	Malbers Linden:	Right, the big point is that an Updater isnot an Installer (exactly)
[15:11]	Malbers Linden:	It has special things it has to do
[15:12]	Kooky Jetaime:	But your installer should ask "makeicons?"
[15:12]	Malbers Linden:	mostly around looking for old settings topropogate to the new release
[15:12]	Squirrel Wood:	You need an updater that queries areference file and then updates/replaces outdated files on the clientside... MUCH less download neccessary and no complete "installation"required.
[15:12]	Kooky Jetaime:	yea
[15:12]	Kooky Jetaime:	everyone is now downloading $35 a pop
[15:12]	Kooky Jetaime:	er
[15:12]	Kooky Jetaime:	35MB a pop
[15:12]	Kooky Jetaime:	per update no matter howinsignificant
[15:13]	Kooky Jetaime:	how much of that really changes?
[15:13]	Kooky Jetaime:	Especailly moving from one RC tothe next
[15:13]	Malbers Linden:	Yeah, I never understand why people thinkinstallers can wait to be the last hting to develop for a product
[15:14]	Malbers Linden:	Yes, dealing with installers/upgraders forBeta/RC/FirstLook is a whole extra set of complication
[15:14]	Malbers Linden:	Hi Tegg -- didn't mean to ignore ou
[15:14]	Tegg Bode:	But that is peanuts compared to howmamny times we download tha same brick wall texture :)
[15:14]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehe
[15:14]	Kooky Jetaime:	I wish the cache would get its acttogether
[15:14]	Tegg Bode:	np :)
[15:15]	Squirrel Wood:	the cache as it is now, ishopelessly inefficient
[15:15]	Kooky Jetaime:	but the thing is, the cache shouldbe the most efficient thing here, since its impossible to have stalestuff in the cache
[15:15]	Kooky Jetaime:	there are no 2 thigns with the sameuuid
[15:15]	Tegg Bode:	I think there should be some standarduser content like floors & wall prims/textures
[15:16]	Kooky Jetaime:	oh
[15:16]	Kooky Jetaime:	while we're not in full swing
[15:16]	Kooky Jetaime:	does anyone need a big chunk ofland for a house
[15:16]	Kooky Jetaime:	great sim
[15:16]	Kooky Jetaime:	quiet
[15:16]	Kooky Jetaime:	very quiet
[15:16]	Kooky Jetaime:	18K
[15:16]	Squirrel Wood:	I couldn't hope to afford it
[15:17]	Squirrel Wood:	don't make enough money on SL tosupport it :p
[15:17]	Malbers Linden:	the only thing that we (Rx) is working onright now that is related to the cache is a new Ruth appearance
[15:17]	Tegg Bode:	Who knows how many red brick walltextures are now in the database that most people couldn't tell aparttoo :)
[15:17]	Kooky Jetaime:	well, what I'd love to see
[15:17]	Kooky Jetaime:	is a frigging way to sort inventoryby uuid
[15:17]	Kooky Jetaime:	so I could delete all the dups
[15:17]	Kooky Jetaime:	I've got 17K items in my inventory
[15:17]	Kooky Jetaime:	probably only about 12K are unique
[15:18]	Tegg Bode:	Yes I try to stay under 8k, I give awayor delete :)
[15:18]	Malbers Linden:	so deleting duplicates is the big issue
[15:18]	Jacek Antonelli:	Elvis has entered the office hours!
[15:18]	Malbers Linden:	could that be automated?
[15:18]	EIvis Presley:	Uhhh huhh
[15:18]	Malbers Linden:	Hey Elvis?
[15:18]	Kooky Jetaime:	well
[15:18]	Kooky Jetaime:	maybe
[15:18]	EIvis Presley:	Hey
[15:18]	Malbers Linden:	oop -- simply HEy Elvis!
[15:19]	Kooky Jetaime:	but the key is deleting them in away that if you have half of them sorted
[15:19]	Tegg Bode:	WoW cool AV, and a cool name, how didyou swing it?
[15:19]	EIvis Presley:	Bit of luck :P
[15:19]	Lorlori Domhan:	wewps! sorry
[15:19]	Tegg Bode:	And Prscilla too, well done :)
[15:19]	Malbers Linden:	Hi Priscilla
[15:19]	EIvis Presley:	:P
[15:20]	Malbers Linden:	Welcome Lorlori
[15:20]	Kooky Jetaime:	no kidding
[15:20]	Kooky Jetaime:	thats pure.. luck
[15:20]	Lorlori Domhan:	Hello :c) I'm hunting beeaaaars!You don't happen to have a bear infestation here do you?
[15:20]	Kooky Jetaime:	hheheh
[15:20]	Malbers Linden:	back to dupes -- maybe a way to find and tagthem to help you delete the "right" one?
[15:20]	Kooky Jetaime:	I've got 20 of em
[15:20]	Tegg Bode:	It's been 12 months since I seen anElvis, used to have supergroups of them on city of Heroes :)
[15:21]	Kooky Jetaime:	yea
[15:21]	Kooky Jetaime:	that would work even
[15:21]	Kooky Jetaime:	but sorting 17,000 objects, I'msure even you would have trouble navagating
[15:21]	Malbers Linden:	Sorry Lorlori. I'm a lame Linden that way. Idon't have a bear designed yet.
[15:21]	Kooky Jetaime:	Especially with the measly littlewindow
[15:22]	Tegg Bode:	Yes, even with $8k I keep findingthings I thought I had lost, they are just in the wrong folder :)
[15:22]	Lorlori Domhan:	ok :c) I'm a builder if you wouldlike me to make one for you *used car-salesman grin*
[15:22]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yeah, if you could tag the onesthat are "keepers", and shouldn't be deleted as dups
[15:22]	Kooky Jetaime:	Perhaps even a little popup whensomeone tries giving you an item, it can pop up : "You already havethis item, accept again, show original in inventory"
[15:22]	Kooky Jetaime:	would be great for these storesthat insist on dropping notecards and LM's on you
[15:22]	Jacek Antonelli:	That would be neat, Kooky
[15:22]	Malbers Linden:	yes, for duplicates, it' would need to be asort-and-filter kind of thing
[15:22]	Tegg Bode:	Hm just make a stick one with a pair ofbear ears :)
[15:22]	Kooky Jetaime:	Jacek - put it in the Jira, and youcan claim credit
[15:23]	Kooky Jetaime:	I don't wanna.. I feel ucky rightnow.
[15:23]	Malbers Linden:	Gotta figure out how to make a jelly-gummy-bear
[15:23]	Kooky Jetaime:	but it could be handled all clientside, since the client should have a list of every UUID in yourinventory.
[15:23]	Jacek Antonelli:	And if you could auto-refuseduplicates (go straight into trash -- so you could dig them out if youneeded to.) With a notice of course, so you know to maybe look
[15:24]	Tegg Bode:	Hmm that would look cool, is there abear museum somewhere so people can see the ones they need to collect?
[15:24]	Kooky Jetaime:	Nope TEgg
[15:24]	Kooky Jetaime:	You can get Meta's in his office
[15:24]	Kooky Jetaime:	but his is protected by a securitysystem you need to crack.
[15:24]	Kooky Jetaime:	:)
[15:24]	Malbers Linden:	You have to prove you are worthy of Meta'sbear that way?
[15:24]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehehe
[15:25]	Tegg Bode:	Cool a challenge :)
[15:25]	Squirrel Wood:	There is a place where you can seemany of the bears....
[15:25]	Kooky Jetaime:	yep
[15:25]	Kooky Jetaime:	oh lets see
[15:25]	Kooky Jetaime:	oh wait
[15:25]	Kooky Jetaime:	can't build here
[15:25]	Squirrel Wood:	Linden Estate Services sim ...
[15:25]	Tegg Bode:	AH ok will check it out :)
[15:25]	Squirrel Wood:	One of the Lindens has a nicecollection of bears set out there
[15:26]	Kooky Jetaime:	Malbers you need to make one
[15:26]	Malbers Linden:	yes, i do. it always seems just below theline for important things to do
[15:26]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehe
[15:26]	Malbers Linden:	someday i'll be so ashamed I'll jsut crank itout
[15:27]	Squirrel Wood:	I just made a wooden box and namedit "Bear Inside" :p
[15:27]	Tegg Bode:	lol
[15:27]	Kooky Jetaime:	yay
[15:27]	Kooky Jetaime:	notecards are fixed
[15:27]	Malbers Linden:	"fixed"?
[15:27]	Squirrel Wood:	The Cake Has A Pie!
[15:27]	Tegg Bode:	that would be funnt with a notecardgiver that say IOU a bear :)
[15:28]	Jacek Antonelli:	Escape takes away focus fromnotecards now \o/ -- is that the fixed you mean, Kooky?
[15:28]	Kooky Jetaime:	thats
[15:29]	Kooky Jetaime:	Ekim's bear
[15:29]	Tegg Bode:	Ah I fell like I'm 14months newer toSL :)
[15:29]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehe box-head!
[15:29]	Squirrel Wood:	read the box description :p
[15:29]	Jacek Antonelli:	Hehehe
[15:29]	Malbers Linden:	I thought you were a kangaroo
[15:29]	Kooky Jetaime:	Rika's
[15:30]	Malbers Linden:	box-headed kangaroo
[15:30]	Tegg Bode:	lol yes it's not even hollow :)
[15:30]	Malbers Linden:	I'm sure we've talked about htis before....
[15:31]	Malbers Linden:	for things like Inventory, would it be goodto have a web-based Ui
[15:31]	Kooky Jetaime:	Robin's
[15:31]	Malbers Linden:	to manage things outside of SL?
[15:31]	Kooky Jetaime:	well
[15:31]	Kooky Jetaime:	but you'd need full UI
[15:31]	Kooky Jetaime:	maybe
[15:31]	Kooky Jetaime:	drag, drop
[15:31]	Kooky Jetaime:	etc
[15:31]	Kooky Jetaime:	Malbers, I'd kill for a "Cut" command
[15:31]	Kooky Jetaime:	so I could select something in onesearch and then paste it to another folder
[15:31]	Kooky Jetaime:	without doing 2 windows
[15:31]	Jacek Antonelli:	yeah
[15:32]	Tegg Bode:	Hmm would be good if some of the newviewer makers improved the Inventory a lot :)
[15:32]	Kooky Jetaime:	if you don't paste it back intoinventory, it won't delet
[15:32]	Malbers Linden:	Inventory is such a dumping ground foreverything
[15:32]	Kooky Jetaime:	delete
[15:32]	Kooky Jetaime:	but
[15:32]	Kooky Jetaime:	Malbers -
[15:32]	Kooky Jetaime:	Something to suggest to the rightpeople
[15:32]	Tegg Bode:	YEs even jus being able to save TP'swould be good, when you find something you have to tp to it tolandmark it
[15:32]	Kooky Jetaime:	If it would be possible to clean upthe inventory
[15:32]	Kooky Jetaime:	it might help asset issues
[15:33]	Kooky Jetaime:	imagine how much smaller the AssetDatabase would be without the millions of duplicate entries
[15:33]	Malbers Linden:	Oh, it would help aset loss issues (just bycleaning up the code)
[15:33]	Kooky Jetaime:	LM's being the worse
[15:33]	Malbers Linden:	it would also help new residents (since it isso damn confusing right now)
[15:33]	Kooky Jetaime:	like some stores putting a LM inevery frigging item, so you end up with tons from the same place.
[15:33]	Squirrel Wood:	many many many many many scriptsreference textures and sounds by uuid. if you remove the duplicates,many would stop working...
[15:33]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yeah. Every thing you buy from astore tries to put a LM in your inventory :D
[15:34]	Squirrel Wood:	unless you remap them somehow tothe proper entries
[15:34]	Malbers Linden:	I kinda wish we had specialized containersfor stuff
[15:34]	Kooky Jetaime:	I still
[15:34]	Jacek Antonelli:	Squirrel: not removing theduplicate assets (in terms of UUID, there are no duplicates)
[15:34]	Kooky Jetaime:	STILL
[15:34]	Malbers Linden:	Wardrobe for clothes
[15:34]	Kooky Jetaime:	would love to see a "New Arrivals"folder
[15:34]	Malbers Linden:	Map++ for Landmarks
[15:34]	Kooky Jetaime:	that everything dumped into thatwas new
[15:34]	Jacek Antonelli:	Just cleaning up inventory sothat you don't have 10 different items all with the same asset UUID
[15:34]	Jacek Antonelli:	YES.
[15:34]	Jacek Antonelli:	New Arrivals. Inbox.
[15:34]	Malbers Linden:	right, would still need something forundefinable objects
[15:34]	Jacek Antonelli:	Please
[15:35]	Kooky Jetaime:	because
[15:35]	Kooky Jetaime:	I'm tired of people doing crappyscripting with a "Give All Inventory" script that sends you items oneat a time
[15:35]	Kooky Jetaime:	and they all get sorted intodifferent folders
[15:35]	Kooky Jetaime:	had it happen yesterday
[15:35]	Malbers Linden:	a lot of my thinking goes towards helping newresidents orient themselves
[15:35]	Kooky Jetaime:	oh
[15:35]	Kooky Jetaime:	New residents
[15:36]	Kooky Jetaime:	help us help them
[15:36]	Kooky Jetaime:	swap out Orientation Island Publicwith the new OI
[15:36]	Jacek Antonelli:	Plus, there are people who get ahundred new items from people in between logins.
[15:36]	Kooky Jetaime:	OR add a new OIP
[15:36]	Kooky Jetaime:	with the new layout
[15:36]	Kooky Jetaime:	I brought someone in world last week
[15:36]	Kooky Jetaime:	but couldn't tel lthem where in OIto go
[15:36]	Kooky Jetaime:	since I've never seen it
[15:36]	Kooky Jetaime:	and can't unless I create an alt
[15:37]	Malbers Linden:	I introduced a friend last night.
[15:37]	Malbers Linden:	over an hour and she could walk, put on ajacket, and drive a car (almost)
[15:37]	Jacek Antonelli:	You know what would be a neatexperiment? A competition where groups could make their own version ofthe orientation island, and new users would randomly go to one ofthem. And you'd have "Rankings" for the groups based on the retentionrate for people coming in on their island :D
[15:37]	Tegg Bode:	Lol, wow, I'm still learning to drive :)
[15:37]	Kooky Jetaime:	Mine couldn't
[15:38]	Malbers Linden:	We have the Community Gateways wich is likethat.
[15:38]	Malbers Linden:	these CGs have their own OIs
[15:38]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yeah, but that's not acompetition, and it only works for people going in through thoseRegAPI sites
[15:38]	Kooky Jetaime:	right
[15:39]	Tegg Bode:	There are Private company OI's about Iguess, , I send any Aussies to The Pond, but there are plenty ofothers about
[15:39]	Kooky Jetaime:	I'd like to be able to tell newpeople, make sure when your on OI, go here xxx, and make sure youunderstand this...
[15:39]	Jacek Antonelli:	The idea is to create a systemfor testing the effectiveness of different OI systems
[15:39]	Malbers Linden:	yeah, the infrastructure is there
[15:39]	Jacek Antonelli:	Right
[15:39]	Jacek Antonelli:	Also, the competition helps togive some "drive" behind it
[15:39]	Kooky Jetaime:	Why don't they just update OIP?
[15:39]	Jacek Antonelli:	Even if there's no prize besidesbragging rights
[15:40]	Malbers Linden:	I don't know all the history for the OI but Ido know that this is V2 or V3 of the OI
[15:40]	Jacek Antonelli:	(Plus it leverages the old"crowdsourcing". Let the masses do it for you!)
[15:41]	Kooky Jetaime:	but if new comers are on V3, whyleave V2 available to everyone
[15:41]	Kooky Jetaime:	there was obviously a rason toupgrade so upgrade the one that everyone can get to
[15:41]	Malbers Linden:	yes yes, V1 and V2 are gone
[15:41]	Malbers Linden:	The contest idea is intriguing
[15:42]	Malbers Linden:	it's a lot of work
[15:42]	Jacek Antonelli:	yeah
[15:42]	Malbers Linden:	and our previous revisions haven't "moved theneedle" enough to improve retention
[15:42]	Malbers Linden:	(or not as much as we would have liked)
[15:42]	Malbers Linden:	we'd need some kind of review of new ideas
[15:43]	Malbers Linden:	(just to ensure there are no greifer OIs)
[15:43]	Jacek Antonelli:	right
[15:43]	Malbers Linden:	/hi Oldskool
[15:44]	Jacek Antonelli:	Some sort of proposal system,where a group like New Citizens Inc. could submit a proposal, get itapproved and an island set up for them, and away they go
[15:44]	Jacek Antonelli:	And some sort of review system,to make sure they're actually following up
[15:44]	Squirrel Wood:	Humm. I think I may have an idea onhow to present an interesting first experience to new players as wellas including a tutorial in the whole thing :)
[15:44]	Jacek Antonelli:	Do tell, Squirrel!
[15:45]	Squirrel Wood:	I have to work out some details first
[15:45]	Tegg Bode:	Yes griefers at OI's can really ruinit, nothing like your pirst 2 minutes in SL buing pushed into a cornerby a naked deformed avatar talking foulest language L(
[15:45]	Malbers Linden:	Going "meta", I think the retention issue isway more than just OI though
[15:45]	Squirrel Wood:	but its a sort of multiple choicepath coupled with some NPCs and freebie item givers and such
[15:45]	Kooky Jetaime:	you know
[15:46]	Kooky Jetaime:	Do the OI's have any sensors?
[15:46]	Kooky Jetaime:	because maybe its a matter ofbreaking it down
[15:46]	Jacek Antonelli:	Oh yes, there's more to retentionthan just OIs
[15:46]	Kooky Jetaime:	for the first 10 minutes, all theyneed to do is walk, teach them the "wsad" shuffle
[15:47]	Malbers Linden:	/hi McCabe
[15:47]	McCabe Maxsted waves
[15:47]	Jacek Antonelli:	There are systems out there thatmonitor avatar arrival in a location, where they spend their time, andwhere they leave
[15:47]	Jacek Antonelli:	Some of them even make a mapshowing where they spent the most time
[15:47]	Malbers Linden:	yes, I think walking and flying are too hard
[15:48]	Jacek Antonelli:	And sitting!
[15:48]	Malbers Linden:	-- too hard to learn
[15:48]	Jacek Antonelli:	Sitting on anything without a sittarget is a pain in the sitter
[15:48]	Malbers Linden:	and sitting
[15:48]	Malbers Linden:	and buying things
[15:48]	Jacek Antonelli:	yep
[15:48]	Malbers Linden:	and figuring out which things can be picked up
[15:48]	Malbers Linden:	or touched
[15:49]	Jacek Antonelli:	I did like that idea of the iconsthat James Linden discussed... 2 weeks ago?
[15:49]	Malbers Linden:	right, that's the idea we are working on forsome of these problems
[15:49]	McCabe Maxsted:	(we're starting early?)
[15:49]	Jacek Antonelli:	Although thinking about it somemore, it would be nice for some special cases for builders to turnthem off. Secret doors and buttons
[15:49]	Malbers Linden:	James is the Eng manager; Erica and Brent arethe Rx folks working on it
[15:49]	Jacek Antonelli:	We've been at it almost an hour,McCabe
[15:50]	Tegg Bode:	Maybe you could have a newbie setingtha renders a mark above items that are clickable :)
[15:50]	Jacek Antonelli:	Time change trip you up? ^_^
[15:50]	McCabe Maxsted:	omg
[15:50]	McCabe Maxsted:	d'oh
[15:50]	Malbers Linden:	we are definitely exploring differentsettings for these icons
[15:50]	Malbers Linden:	new residents and experienced residents needdifferent levels of knowledge
[15:50]	Jacek Antonelli:	yes
[15:51]	McCabe Maxsted nods in agreement
[15:51]	Malbers Linden:	Hi JetZep
[15:51]	JetZep Zabelin:	Hello!
[15:52]	Malbers Linden glad JetZep showed up -- almost asmany "people" as nonpeople
[15:52]	Jacek Antonelli:	hehe
[15:52]	McCabe Maxsted:	so the icons are being tested outnow?
[15:52]	JetZep Zabelin:	=) thank you
[15:52]	Malbers Linden:	really jsut design explorations
[15:52]	Malbers Linden:	there are lots of tough edge cases
[15:52]	Malbers Linden:	the normal cases are very compelling
[15:53]	Tegg Bode:	Lol, that's a pretty non-peoplish thingto say :)
[15:53]	Malbers Linden:	showing where to sit, what to buy, what canbe picked up
[15:53]	Malbers Linden:	yeah, I was typing fast, couldn't think of abetter term than "nonpeople"
[15:53]	McCabe Maxsted:	what are the tough edge casesyou're seeing?
[15:53]	Malbers Linden:	should have gone with evolved beings
[15:53]	Tegg Bode:	lol
[15:54]	Malbers Linden:	edge cases like a wall of handbags for sale-- too many tiny icons in that case
[15:54]	Jacek Antonelli:	Oh, I had an idea for dealingwith things that you can perform multiple actions on (touch, buy, siton all available) -- have the icon for the "main action" ( == whathappens when you click on it), then have a plus-mark next to it toshow there are other actions available
[15:54]	Malbers Linden:	edge case -- REAAALLY big prims
[15:55]	Malbers Linden:	edge case -- linked prims (where to put theicon)
[15:55]	Jacek Antonelli:	indeed
[15:55]	Malbers Linden:	edge case -- linked prims with more than oneaction
[15:55]	Jacek Antonelli:	whee
[15:55]	Malbers Linden:	although Jacek just brainstormed a solutionfor that one
[15:55]	McCabe Maxsted:	hehe :)
[15:56]	Tegg Bode:	We need more non-people choices in thedefault avatars, maybe some robots or orcs?
[15:56]	Jacek Antonelli:	Also, just throwing out an ideafor builders -- make it a check box, next to the "When Left-clicked"drop-down menu, that says something like "Show icon for this action"
[15:56]	Malbers Linden:	I know there is a project looking at all-
	things-avatar but I'm ot directly plugged into it
[15:56]	Jacek Antonelli:	Then builders can decide whenit's appropriate for their object to show the icon
[15:56]	Jacek Antonelli:	Solves the wall of handbags edgecase
[15:57]	Jacek Antonelli:	And the secret button edge case
[15:57]	McCabe Maxsted:	I really like that idea, in casesomeone wants to build something with a hidden action too
[15:57]	Malbers Linden:	There is an obvious hard line to walk here...
[15:57]	Malbers Linden:	enough control for reputable builders but notenough for griefers to fuck with people too much
[15:57]	Jacek Antonelli:	yeah
[15:58]	McCabe Maxsted:	it might be time enough to finallyimplement llteleportagent
[15:58]	Kooky Jetaime:	Malbers - with linked prims,shouldn't it be located over the actionable prim?
[15:58]	McCabe Maxsted:	teleporting could get its own iconso it wouldn't be confused with sit icons
[15:58]	Kooky Jetaime:	Personally I'd love a "collide-sit"so you could walk into teleporters
[15:58]	Jacek Antonelli:	Although... I'm not sure there'smuch potential for abuse here? What would griefers do, trick someoneinto thinking they touch buy an object, but -- surprise -- they cant?
[15:58]	Kooky Jetaime:	yea
[15:59]	McCabe Maxsted:	or perhaps flood a view with a tonof empty touch_start objects to confuse people
[15:59]	Jacek Antonelli:	I guess maybe they could do a bigwall of tiny prims with icons
[15:59]	Jacek Antonelli:	Psychic!
[15:59]	JetZep Zabelin:	collide sit .. i like that idea
[15:59]	Tegg Bode:	Hmm yes colide sit would be good, Iguess it would be possible to shoot teleporters at people then too :)
[15:59]	McCabe Maxsted:	:)
[15:59]	Malbers Linden is starting to wonder if you allhave griefer alts
[16:00]	Jacek Antonelli:	hahaha
[16:00]	Kooky Jetaime:	Nope
[16:00]	Jacek Antonelli:	Nah, we use our mains ;) j/k
[16:00]	Malbers Linden:	no, you do have to get inside their mindssometimes
[16:00]	Squirrel Wood:	Nah. But we have plenty ofexperience at being griefed ^^
[16:00]	McCabe Maxsted:	I think huge prims could be anacceptable edge case; they're mainly used to save prims on largebuildings, not for, say, "sit me on that 50m cube!"
[16:00]	Kooky Jetaime:	yea
[16:00]	McCabe Maxsted:	hehe
[16:00]	Tegg Bode:	Lol I'm going to load up a gatlingmachine gun and spew out every Landmark in my list at you, till I hityou :)
[16:00]	Kooky Jetaime:	I actually have a neighbor that hasan anti-griefer griefer
[16:00]	Jacek Antonelli:	vigilante justice?
[16:01]	Kooky Jetaime:	kinda
[16:01]	Kooky Jetaime:	if you throw a cage within range ofit
[16:01]	Kooky Jetaime:	it will cage you
[16:01]	Tegg Bode:	nice :)
[16:01]	JetZep Zabelin:	no i just liked it for theteleport idea.. no cages
[16:01]	Tegg Bode:	I have a bird in my ear :)
[16:01]	Malbers Linden:	Hhhhm. Well I guess Ben's little side issueturned into an hour long side issue
[16:02]	Squirrel Wood:	ah well :)
[16:02]	McCabe Maxsted:	what about the ones that orbit youeven when build permission's turned off
[16:02]	Squirrel Wood:	We still had fun here
[16:02]	Kooky Jetaime:	you mean push permissions off?
[16:02]	JetZep Zabelin:	Is Benjamin's office hour still at4pm?
[16:02]	McCabe Maxsted:	I'm really sorry I missed it!Stupid time change
[16:02]	McCabe Maxsted thinks there should be two a weekinstead of one
[16:02]	Jacek Antonelli:	3pm
[16:02]	Malbers Linden:	Great ideas about OI and object identification
[16:02]	JetZep Zabelin:	hmm
[16:02]	Jacek Antonelli:	Good thing we had Malbers heretoday! Yay, Malbers! \o/
[16:02]	Malbers Linden:	Office hours are from 3-4 SLT
[16:02]	McCabe Maxsted:	no I mean build permission's off
[16:02]	JetZep Zabelin:	my calendar is off
[16:03]	Tegg Bode:	Should try making it when you are18hours out of synch :)
[16:03]	Malbers Linden:	Thanks Jacek
[16:03]	McCabe Maxsted:	you can't rez objects but somehowthey get you with an orbiter
[16:03]	Kooky Jetaime:	hmm
[16:03]	Malbers Linden:	Thanks for your time and bainstorming ideas.
[16:03]	McCabe Maxsted always wondered how that one worked
[16:03]	Malbers Linden:	I'm outta here.
[16:03]	Kooky Jetaime:	ok
[16:03]	Squirrel Wood:	they rez objects outside theparcel, then move them over.
[16:03]	McCabe Maxsted:	take care malbers
[16:03]	Kooky Jetaime:	whats Ctrl-Alt-Shift-H?
[16:03]	Tegg Bode:	I had to head to this meeting on Fridayto make on Thursday
[16:03]	Jacek Antonelli:	Okay, take care Malbers
[16:03]	McCabe Maxsted:	try it and find out ;)
[16:04]	Kooky Jetaime:	let me guess
[16:04]	Kooky Jetaime:	another bug
[16:04]	Squirrel Wood:	Have fun Malbers :)
[16:04]	Kooky Jetaime:	that sends you home
[16:04]	McCabe Maxsted:	knaw easter egg
[16:04]	Squirrel Wood:	and Hoppy Easter and such
[16:04]	Jacek Antonelli:	Hippos!