Open Development User Group/Archive/2011-02-07

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07:00  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  Hi Oz
  Oz Linden  hi all!
  Twisted Laws  Hi
  Office Orb  mail_to set to
    Start transcription to
    Transcript will be sent to:
  Cummere Mayo  hey oz!
    hopes oz isnt a stealers fan >.>
07:01  Oz Linden  no, Patriots & Redskins - I was rooting for Green Bay
07:02  Wolfpup  i saw the end of the game when i got home from RL work as roommate had the game on
  Oz Linden  it was a very good game
  Cummere Mayo  that was one serious game, however shall we get on topic?
  Oz Linden  I was actually coding during it :-)
  Cummere Mayo  oz i sent you a list of what i think are mostly build tools / lib related jiras
  Oz Linden  So... I am in the middle of reorganizing my agenda page for this meeting. so I don't have a link
07:03  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে
  Wolfpup  i tested the new auto build reop you did Oz and it still works fin for those with VS pro
    at least for me
  Jonathan  It is failing for Express though, those missing .h files
  Oz Linden  ah... good... let's go over that here today, but I'd like to go over the autobuild issues first
07:04  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  ok
  Twisted Laws  as long as autobuild configure works and i can compile with the IDE i'm fine
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  didn't get to try autobuild, yet
  Wolfpup  i was having issues with the missing h files till i made an adjustnemt to the ide
  Jonathan  Wolfpup, that is not a long-term solution I think
  Cummere Mayo  is there a jira about the h files somewhere?
  Twisted Laws  what'd u change in the ide, wolfpup?
  Jonathan  It was mentioned on the mailing list cummere
07:05  Oz Linden  no, it's not a long term solution, but it may be enough to do the merge
  Wolfpup  twisted add extra folders ti the includes and libs f under optiond
  Oz Linden  first things first... I did a pass over the exisiting wiki docs on Autobuild this morning
07:06    I'd appreciate review/commentary/suggestions/fixes for all the pages linked from
    at your lesiure, of course
  Wolfpup  Twisted look up the viewr2_microsoft wiki
  Oz Linden  We don't yet have a page specifically on building the viewer with autobuild, but I'm going to start that today
07:07    will send a note to the list when it's up
  Twisted Laws  i already had them in the includes/libs, thanks
07:09  Oz Linden  So... the status of OPEN-1
  Office Orb

OPEN-1 autobuild does not support use with Visual Studio Express

07:10  Oz Linden  Do we believe that we have an acceptable workaround if we modify the autobuild.xml in the viewer to make a configuration specifically for Express ?
  Wolfpup  Jonathan mabey the SDK's your useing might not have the needed files
    that workaround dose look good Oz
  Jonathan  You will update that xml to have the other options, e.g. Release?
07:11  Oz Linden  I was thinking that we really don't need the others
    no one is going to build a Release viewer with Express
07:12  Jonathan  err, I do all the time
  Twisted Laws  it seems to me that something is ignoring the INCLUDE env variable
    i do all the time too
  Oz Linden  and as far as I know there isn't any real advantage to using Debug.... ?
  Wolfpup  Oz whant i do my confid i do it forthe normal configureation but then i build in release mode for the ide
  Twisted Laws  until autobuild i've always built release
  Jonathan  And I copy an existing shortcut to make a new shortcut, I really don't want to have to remember where my binary is and adjust it
07:13  Oz Linden  why? in any event, I hope to get a real fix that will let autobuild adapt to Express and use the normal configurations
  Twisted Laws  i share my builds with 2 or 3 other people and share the install that is built as well as changes
  Oz Linden  doesn't building in release mode loose symbols ?
  Jonathan  Also, before forcing WithDebug on us, it would be nice to do a timing test--1hr 15m to compile is already hard enough on me
07:14    And a link time of 6 minutes--I don't want more symbols, work done by the compiler, etc
  Wolfpup  the only way to do that would be for autobuild do like dose now and test for express
  Oz Linden  no one is forcing anything... let's not start that
  Jonathan  sorry, poor choice of words
  Twisted Laws  i've been building my own viewer for over 3 years and have never had unsurmountable issues till now :(
07:15  Oz Linden  My concern is that I dont' want to continue the combinatorial explosion of configurations
  Jonathan  I am curious about something--
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  make the config modular?
  Jonathan  Why are the options combined--it would make more sense to have Release + Opensource as 2 items
07:16  Oz Linden  would someone do a comparison of Release vs RelWithDebInfo of installability, installer size, and build-from-clean time using Express?
    yes, it would make sense, but autobuild does not support that (yet)
  Jonathan  I would do that test if I had an xml file with the Release settings
  Wolfpup  to me with pro the build times seem aboput the same for me
07:17  Jonathan  I guess I could just substitute Release for Rel with Dbg
  Oz Linden  yes, I believe that would do it, Jonathan
  Jonathan  ok, my cpu will be burning hot today
07:18  Wolfpup  yes CPU capacity dose make a difference in build times
  Oz Linden  please do that test and let us know the results. Unless there is a substantial cost to leave in the debug info, I'd prefer to use that so that we have one target that's usable for either purpose
    as long as both builds are done on the same system, I'm prepared to believe the test will be valid
07:19  Jonathan  oh wait, I cannot test, there is the issue of the.h files
  Wolfpup  the thing is when you build a release with debut the viewer is set to auto start the debug loging consol window
  Oz Linden  That issue being that the build only works when you run it from within the IDE, and not when you run the 'autobuild build' command?
07:20  Wolfpup  which is the same information that is in the secondlife.log file
  Jonathan  I have not tried the combination of autobuild configure + ide compile -- autobuild build fails with missing .h files
  Wolfpup  im talking about outside the ide when you do an relwithdebinfo build
  Oz Linden  sigh
07:21    ok.... let's back up
  Twisted Laws  i notice the build directory is in a different directory with autobuild
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  brb
  Oz Linden  I want to know if the autobuild configuration works
  Jonathan  Yes on Express
  Wolfpup  works here
  Oz Linden  I really really really do not care about any other way of doing it
  Twisted Laws  it fails 2 tests for me
  Oz Linden  I really really really do not want to talk now about any other way of doing it
  Twisted Laws  they were in one of the emails...
  Jonathan  Twisted, the configuration fails?
  Twisted Laws  i don't have that issue when i use cmake .
07:22    no the compile fails 2 tests
  Oz Linden  Twisted -- please stop confusing the issue
  Jonathan  Please don't make Oz crazy--let's stick with just autobuild
    so all agree autobuild configure works?
  Wolfpup  Twisted i think your problem is that your useing the cgwin console and not the windows cmd window
  Twisted Laws  when i autobuild configure, it builds in a different directory and the compile with the ide fails 2 tests
07:23    when i configure with cmake ., the tests pass
  Oz Linden  In fact, the configure step is essentially optional I think.... if you run the build command on a configuration you have not yet run the configure step for, it runs that step for you automatically
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  back
  Oz Linden  Twisted.... last warning... if you continue I'm going to get annoyed
07:24  Wolfpup  then it basicaly runs with a different target dir then
  Oz Linden  If there is a problem on some systems or configurations with just running 'autobuild build -c VCexpressRelWithDebInfo' , then I want to know what they are.
  Cummere Mayo  is so lost anyways so running afk while she changes
  Wolfpup  or at least some thing similar
07:25  Jonathan  Oz, did you see those emails about the 2 .h files?
  Oz Linden  Please add comments to OPEN-1 about those issues if there are any
    Next issue...
  Office Orb

OPEN-4 As an Open Source Developer, I would like to use Fmod in the autobuild system if i have the needed files already

07:26  Oz Linden  I'm going to meet later today with some Lindens and try to work out a solution to this that's good enough....
  Wolfpup  there is a posible solution also listed in open-6
  Office Orb

OPEN-6 Add support to autobuild for local archives as dependencies and as targets

07:27  Oz Linden  it's possible that will initially just be documentation on how to manually put the fmod distribution in the right place, but we'll see if we can do better than that
  Wolfpup  i added it there last nigh
  Oz Linden  Right - that's part of what open-6 is about
  Wolfpup  as it would cover all 3p libs
07:28  Oz Linden  I don't think that I understood your suggestion, Wolfpup, but I'll give it another read later
07:29  Jonathan  What did you think of my idea to have an environment vairable point to those fmod files?
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  is the FMOD issue the same as before autobuild (i.e. non-public download location)?
  Wolfpup  basicaly opensource the autobuild 'wrabper for fmod' and then let the OS devs that use it load the source files into it
07:30  Oz Linden  An important part of what autobuild is about is reducing the need for so many command line options
07:31    I do think that it might be interesting to be able to locally override autobuild package settings from the file either from the command line or from the environment, but specifying them would be complex
  Wolfpup  and i was sugesting to make a folder in the autobuild sustem that would stor all 3p libs/includes and have a sincle file that autobuild would monitor for seeing if it needed to load files from the local folder or fetch them from online
  Oz Linden  for now, I think that the ability to have a modified configuration file might be enough, and I have the change for that done (open-7)
  Office Orb

OPEN-7 autobuild: add selection of the config-file using an environment variable

07:32  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  many command line options? The only ones of which there are plenty are the -D... stuff, but I don't see how autobuild would reduce those.
07:33  Oz Linden  used correctly, autobuild should eliminate the need for the -D options
  Jonathan  Oz, for Express I had to go through a convoluted process to set up to use the 3 msvc80* files, and that requires either an env variable or dropping them into the build tree
  Oz Linden  because they'll all be in the autobuild configuration
    please document that in open-1, jonathan
07:34  Jonathan  ok, it's in the how-to-build wiki
    but I will make it clearer
  Oz Linden  we'll move it to a wiki page as soon as we believe we've got a stable solution
  Wolfpup  right now if you try to use -DFMOD=TRUE it will also set -DPRIVATEBUILD=TRUE and OS devs do not need that
  Oz Linden  I don't want the wiki docs on how to build the viewer modified for autobuild yet, please
    please file an issue on that, Wolfpup
07:35  Cummere Mayo  get it working consistantly first, then document?
  Jonathan  Clarification--I will make the steps clearer in open-1
  Oz Linden  exactly, Cummere
  Wolfpup  i think the OS autobuild wiki for the viewer should be its own page
  Cummere Mayo  +1 wolfpup
  Oz Linden  What I want to do is set up the viewer build documentation this way:
  Wolfpup  like there are ones for linux, mac, and windows
07:37  Oz Linden  1 page that has: links to platoform-specific environment setup pages, a section on how to download the viewer repo, a section (very short) on how to run the autobuild command, and a section with platform-specific links on how to run your test viewer
    .has to step away for a moment.... home interrupt
07:39    I'm back
  Wolfpup  wb
07:40  Oz Linden  (had to help w/ the garage door ... melting snow keeps popping the GFI breaker that the garage door is on)
  Wolfpup  it is ok
    GFI breakers are a good thing they help pervent fire and getting shicked
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  what did I miss? my laptop decided to spontaneously shut down due to hot CPU :-\
07:41  Eddi Decosta  hi there:)
  Wolfpup  hey eddi
  Cummere Mayo  sounds like you have a wire short somewhere then oz
  Oz Linden  so... I'd _really_ like to get the autobuild branch merged this week, so please do the tests and document where we are in open-1
07:42  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  has anyone tested it on Linux 64bit, yet, or is that up to me?
  Wolfpup  well for VS Pro open-1 good to go
  Oz Linden  no, there is an outdoor outlet that the ice gets into... which is what GFI breakers are for....
07:43    not that I know of, Boroondas
  Cummere Mayo  ah. dont have a snow cover for it oz?
  Oz Linden  I don't know if enough of the dependencies are available yet to do that, but by all means try standalone
  Wolfpup  Broondas test it in non-standalone and stanalon if you can
07:44    Oz those outdoors outlets might have bad seal and need to be replaced
07:45  Oz Linden  Cummere... I wanted to go back to your list, but I don't see the email
  Cummere Mayo  let me try resending
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  What is the command to use autobuild with standalone?
  Oz Linden  I've replaced the seals.... it only happens a couple of times a year...
07:46    there are standalone configurations in the config file
    (I think)
  Wolfpup  yes there are
  Cummere Mayo  resent
  Wolfpup  OpenSourceStandAlone is how they start
07:47  Eddi Decosta  hi tech
  Oz Linden  Let's make going over that list our agenda for the Wednesday meeting (hopefully by then the autobuild stuff will be merged)
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  merged to viewer-dev?
  Wolfpup  < will miss the wensday meeting as he will be @ RL work
07:48  Oz Linden  yes, that's what I meant, Boroondas
    Any non-autobuild issues today?
  Cummere Mayo  well im not even sure how much of that is build tools and how much i confused with it.. so thats why i sent it to you now before i went any further
  Wolfpup  Broondas Oz has a merged repos that is the current viewer-development + autobuild
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  what's the status of VWR-24487? Any ETA on the decision on that?
  Office Orb

VWR-24487 llurlentry_stub.cpp:196: error: deprecated conversion from string constant to 'char*'

07:49  Oz Linden  no decision yet, but....
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  (If it'll take long, we should probably use the quick-and-dirty cast-to-non-const fix in the meantime)
  Oz Linden  Team Chopper is in the process of converting all our sources to be VS2010 compatible, and...
    in the process we're getting a lot of things cleaned up
07:50    the problem I have with changing the file in the viewer tree is that it's supposed to be generated from the template, the _real_ version of which is in the simulator sources
07:51  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  yeah
  Oz Linden  so what I want to get done is apply the fix to the template processing in the sim tree, and check in the fixed result in the viewer tree
    hoping to do that during the VS2010 cleanup
07:52    which we hope will be finished in the next 2-3 weeks - that is in no way a promise
  Wolfpup  one thing for shure there will need to be some adjustments needed for VS2010
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  though, probably instead of keeping that header in sync, we should keep the message template in sync and generate the header as part of the viewer build? as it is now, the message template and the header can be (and are currently) out of sync in the viewer source tree.
07:53  Oz Linden  actually, what I'd like to do is remove the template from the viewer tree completely
  Wolfpup  VS2010 dose not have an options to add specific default include, exe, and lib folders
  Oz Linden  and just put a comment in the generated file that documents that it comes from the sim tree build
07:54  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  isn't the template also used for ensureing protocol compatibility outside of these headers?
  Cummere Mayo  hey oz I have a question for you though im not sure if youre able/allowed to answer it
07:55  Oz Linden  I don't know what other hurdles we'll face with the VS2010 conversion... the current semi-plan is to get a lot of Lindens in a room and have a hackaton to do most of it in one go...
    I don't know, Boroondas... need to investigate more deeply
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  ok ...
  Oz Linden  ask away, Cummere
  Wolfpup  would not being in on that hackathing
07:56  Cummere Mayo  why is it that LL is refusing to crack down on devices like the one in VWR-24746 that rip ip and or mac addresses and make publically availible lists of "alts"
  Office Orb

VWR-24746 Ban ZFRedzone

  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  Until the real issue gets tickled, can we take in the quick fix of casting the literal to non-const? It'd be nice to be able to build without having to modify the repo.
  Oz Linden  I'm going to investigate incorporating open devs into the hackathon... when I know more about when & how it will happen, I'll let you know
07:57    Sorry, Cummere... you're right... not something I can discuss except to say that it's a complicated issue that does get discussed within LL from time to time
  Wolfpup  < would hope it is on his day off from his RL job
07:58  Cummere Mayo  can you please point the right people to that jira?
  Oz Linden  I'll discuss the template/const issue with Q and get back to you
  Jonathan  I hope Robin C can be part of that hackathon
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  Hackatron might be difficult for community devs, due to timezone etc.. But be sure to check jira and mailing list for existing fixes.
07:59  Oz Linden  Yes, one of the things I have to do between now and whenever it is is to collect existing fixes....
    will probably ask for help on that
  Cummere Mayo  im doing my best on that. :-/
  Jonathan  Dealing with the various incarnations the msvc* files is a real pain
08:00  Office Orb  Your timer has expired!
  Jonathan  That is Robin's area of expertise
  Oz Linden  I'll put participation in the hackathon on our next meeting agenda too
08:01  Cummere Mayo  i wish i knew of an easy way other then commenting (which still gets lost) to tag a jira with soemthing bright and noticable that says the fix is there
  Wolfpup  will be happy when open 4,6, and 9 are in the autobuild system
  Oz Linden  Ok folks... our time is up today... I've got some other things to attend to, and you've got autobuild tests to run....
  Office Orb  End transcription
  Jonathan  oz, see my last comment on open-1
  Office Orb

OPEN-1 autobuild does not support use with Visual Studio Express