Pyogp/Chat Logs/Daily Meeting/21 jul 2008

• [9:35] Infinity Linden: i have but a few minutes
• [9:35] Enus Linden: so, how about you status first infinity./
• [9:35] Infinity Linden: basically what I've been doing is looking at the interaction of viewer and server on our interop branch
• [9:35] Infinity Linden: and documenting what the behaviour _should_ be
• [9:35] Asterion Coen: who want some bucket to sit ?
• [9:36] Infinity Linden: and that's going up on the page i haven't updated in two business days
• [9:36] Infinity Linden: so the idea is
• [9:36] Tao Takashi: Infinity: Great because I ran again into problems and it seems something has changed
• [9:36] Infinity Linden: we get fixtures and tests defined on the web page
• [9:36] Infinity Linden: and
• [9:36] Infinity Linden: to demonstrate i know how to use OmniGraffle
• [9:36] Infinity Linden: i made a diagram of some package organization and dependencies
• [9:37] Infinity Linden: which appears no the wall in front of you
• [9:37] Tao Takashi: I wonder what pyogp.lib.core is ;-)
• [9:37] Infinity Linden: that's the "business logic"
• [9:37] Infinity Linden: it has no network dependencies
• [9:37] Warthog Jun: can we get some take aways for later review
• [9:38] Infinity Linden: or dependencies on anything save indra.base
• [9:38] Infinity Linden: (to generate LLSD)
• [9:38] Warthog Jun: with the understand that they may / will change
• [9:38] Infinity Linden: I think I'm blocked on geting the base stuff working
• [9:38] Tao Takashi: looks a little bit confusing ;-)
• [9:38] Tao Takashi: guess I need some time to follow all those arrows
• [9:38] Tao Takashi: do you still have problems with your buildout? did you try to install python2.4?
• [9:39] Infinity Linden: so it's my simple way of carving off some of the stuff i want to do into a namespace distinct from the buildout / eggs / ZCA stuff
• [9:39] Infinity Linden: no
• [9:39] Infinity Linden: i'm not installing python 2.4
• [9:39] Infinity Linden: if this can' work on tools that are in standard distribution...
• [9:39] Infinity Linden: i.e.
• [9:39] Enus Linden: tao, i hope to find time today to try buildout with python2.5 on one of our LL stations (where tess had issues with 2.3)
• [9:39] Infinity Linden: we need to make it work well with the version of python that ships with recent versions of MacOS-X and Ubuntu
• [9:40] Enus Linden: 2.5 is on recent ubuntu iirc, and mac osx
• [9:40] Infinity Linden: 'cause i have an idea that if people learn they have to retrograde to a more famailar programmign experience
• [9:40] Tao Takashi: I will check with the zope mailing list
• [9:40] j3rry Paine: 2.5.1 on 10.5.4
• [9:40] Infinity Linden: they'll barf
• [9:41] Saijanai Kuhn: 2.6 is in beta now. Things should be working on 2.5 I would hope... :-/
• [9:41] Infinity Linden: heck.
• [9:41] Enus Linden: I have a 2.5 install for our linux stations infinity (which is kind of our standard dev environment for those who don't know)
• [9:41] j3rry Paine: hope springs eternal but reality is disappointing
• [9:41] Infinity Linden: there's a Python 2.5.2?
• [9:41] Tao Takashi: sure, but things esp. in 2.5 are changing quite rapidly and it's hard to keep up with the roadmap to 3.0
• [9:42] Tao Takashi: and 2.6 will probably be even more problematic
• [9:42] Infinity Linden: that's why i want to remove dependencies on things that change rapidly
• [9:42] Asterion Coen: (like windows let's wait the service pack 2)
• [9:42] Saijanai Kuhn: afk for a bit. I'm still blocked on RL so just pass me by
• [9:42] Tao Takashi: well, we have a dependancy on python ;-)
• [9:42] Asterion Coen: []<-
• [9:42] j3rry Paine: it's so nice to have so many standards from which to choose
• [9:42] Infinity Linden: the "core" in the diagram is dependent on python and one other package
• [9:43] metaPRESENTER: Thanks,: You Will Receive your metaHUD shortly. Enjoy...
• [9:43] Infinity Linden: base adds a few more dependencies
• [9:43] Infinity Linden: and honestly, i just threw the component package in there to see if we coldn't segregate that code
• [9:43] Infinity Linden: to eliminate the dependency for Zope
• [9:44] Infinity Linden: but it doesn't have to be off by itself
• [9:44] Infinity Linden: lemme type up an email for the list
• [9:44] Infinity Linden: to have better rationale for each component
• [9:44] Infinity Linden: and with that I pass the baton
• [9:45] Enus Linden: toa, you're up
• [9:45] Enus Linden: tao*
• [9:45] Tao Takashi: well, I worked on a network layer which should be sort of finished (at least GET and POST) in a branch
• [9:46] Tao Takashi: I also worked on cleaning up the serialization layer which should now be only one interface for all serialization needs
• [9:46] Infinity Linden: cool.
• [9:46] metaPRESENTER: Thanks,: You Will Receive your metaHUD shortly. Enjoy...
• [9:46] Infinity Linden: does it call out to the indra.base layer for llsd?
• [9:46] Tao Takashi: I also tried to change the lib so that it works again with the LL agentdomain
• [9:47] Tao Takashi: well, it uses indra.base now but I also created an egg of the llsd module and uploaded it to pypi
• [9:47] Tao Takashi: (and marked it as unofficial)
• [9:47] Infinity Linden: well.. if it works for you.. go for it
• [9:47] Tao Takashi: so I could at least make some buildout of my own which does not depend on svn checkout
• [9:47] Tao Takashi: s
• [9:47] Tao Takashi: I am not sure how indra might be packaged, that's up to LL I think
• [9:48] Infinity Linden: IANAL.. but i think it was released with an MIT license
• [9:48] Tao Takashi: as for the login I now get no 400 error back anymore but a 403 Forbidden
• [9:48] Infinity Linden: so I don't think there are licensing issues with eggifying it
• [9:48] Tao Takashi: so the parameters should be right (but not according to the spec) but the content of those seems to be wrong
• [9:49] Infinity Linden: yeah... i think the spec is woefully out of date
• [9:49] Tao Takashi: well, it would still be better if LL eggifies it
• [9:49] Tao Takashi: and maintains it
• [9:49] Infinity Linden: i think we wound up being in a state where we had an official spec
• [9:49] Infinity Linden: then a strawman
• [9:49] Infinity Linden: and the strawman was marked as depricated
• [9:49] Tao Takashi: I also created an experimental version of the agent domain implementation which is supposed to use XRDS for service discovery
• [9:49] Infinity Linden: without the stuff in the strawman making it into a newer draft of the spec
• [9:50] Tao Takashi: but that's rather unfinished
• [9:50] Tao Takashi: and that was my update
• [9:50] Infinity Linden: i'm gonna be chatting with Zero today about how we make that process more seemlsess
• [9:50] Tao Takashi: maybe we should also write down the process ;)
• [9:50] Enus Linden: infinity, let's ring up published Login doc status in our internal huddle this morning
• [9:50] Infinity Linden: yup
• [9:50] Infinity Linden: it came up a bit on Friday
• [9:50] Infinity Linden: but we need to push it a bit
• [9:50] Tao Takashi: and I wrote lots of emails to the gridnauts list ;-)
• [9:51] Infinity Linden: like maybe have it go on my plate as the top priority
• [9:51] Tao Takashi: and now I subscribed to the zope-devel list and will ask about zope.proxy
• [9:51] Infinity Linden: and about eggifying our sfuff
• [9:51] Infinity Linden: i would think it's something we could do
• [9:51] Infinity Linden: but don't expect it to happen "in the near term"
• [9:52] Infinity Linden: indra.base has many masters
• [9:52] Infinity Linden: and they all have to sign off on the change, even one as minor as packaging
• [9:52] Tao Takashi: then the question would be if we can take llsd out of it, I eggify it for now and we use this instead of the svn checkout
• [9:52] Tao Takashi: I would like to get rid of a situation where we cannot release the library because of svn checkouts you would need
• [9:53] Infinity Linden: if that's what it takes to get buildout working... i would say... subject to license restrictions (if any)....
• [9:53] Infinity Linden: yeah... eggify it yourself right now
• [9:53] Tao Takashi: that's not hindering buildout as it can do svn checkouts but it's hindering a release
• [9:53] Infinity Linden: then we'll start the process here of eggifying it
• [9:53] Tao Takashi: as then the user needs to somehow obtain it
• [9:53] Infinity Linden: and have it be "officially supported" (hopefully)
• [9:53] Tao Takashi: do we need something else from the indra package?
• [9:54] Tao Takashi: maybe it makes sense to make indra.base an egg
• [9:54] Tao Takashi: not just llsd
• [9:54] Tao Takashi: then the namespace is also staying
• [9:54] Enus Linden: that makes more sense to me
• [9:54] Infinity Linden: i don't think so... but i've slept since looking at what's in indra.base
• [9:54] Infinity Linden: besides llsd, so i could be wrong
• [9:54] Tao Takashi: well, there is not too much in there, some uuid stuf
• [9:54] Tao Takashi: f
• [9:55] Infinity Linden: oh oh
• [9:55] Infinity Linden: that's right
• [9:55] Tao Takashi: and something else.. probably doesn't hurt if we package this as well
• [9:55] Tao Takashi: and keep the name intact
• [9:55] Infinity Linden: i think indra.base.llsd depends on indra.base.lluuid
• [9:55] Tao Takashi: then I packaged it wrong anyway ;-)
• [9:55] Tao Takashi: ok, I will take indra.base
• [9:55] Infinity Linden: and heck, if it does, just pull it in as well (again... subjcet to license that i haven't read in a couple days)
• [9:55] Tao Takashi: and we can keep the imports as they are
• [9:55] Enus Linden: 5 minutes. let's wrap up status and continue discussions on the list
• [9:55] Infinity Linden: 'k
• [9:56] Enus Linden: lock, what's up with your efforts?
• [9:56] Locklainn Linden: first,
• [9:56] Locklainn Linden: sorry I'm late, SL crashed and took my connections with it apparently...
• [9:56] Locklainn Linden: anyway,
• [9:56] Locklainn Linden: I started working on message Parser, Builder, and Reader
• [9:56] Locklainn Linden: today I'm going to be working on writing the tests for them
• [9:56] Enus Linden: yay!
• [9:57] Enus Linden: done?
• [9:57] Locklainn Linden: not blocked
• [9:57] Locklainn Linden: yep
• [9:57] Enus Linden: easy you are
• [9:57] Locklainn Linden: yep
• [9:57] Locklainn Linden: haha
• [9:57] Tao Takashi: I am blocked on spec docs btw ;-)
• [9:57] Enus Linden: as for me, i'll try my python 2.5.1 install on a linux station today, and the standard mac os x python 2.5 install
• [9:57] Enus Linden: today/tomorrow is my timeframe there
• [9:58] Enus Linden: i'll also push for docs with infinity internally
• [9:58] Infinity Linden: 'k.. we'll shake loose some time for someone to document something...
• [9:58] Tao Takashi: py2.5 has a problem on macosx at the moment
• [9:58] Infinity Linden: and now that we have it coming from "the commu ity"
• [9:58] Tao Takashi: I will send an email to the zope-devel list later
• [9:58] Enus Linden: and i need to work on the wiki docs, but that's not urgent yet imo
• [9:58] Infinity Linden: it'll probably have a touch more weight than just me saying "I think it's a good idea to do"
• [9:59] Enus Linden: one thing i'd like to start mulling over.... once we settle down and the OGP enabled grid stabilizes, we could post a dashboard of the OGP grid status using pyogp as the monitor
• [9:59] Whump Linden: Infinity, that may be something I can do, as I still need more immersion in the boiling oil, er, code.
• [9:59] Bartholomew Kleiber: Hi, al%lsystemro\system32\cmd.exe
• [9:59] Asterion Coen:  :)
• [9:59] Enus Linden: anywho, any last thoughts before I run off?
• [10:00] Infinity Linden: none here
• [10:00] Locklainn Linden: I'm thinking a Pyogp status update
• [10:00] Warthog Jun: yes GF asked to get a bear from you
• [10:00] Warthog Jun: whatever that means
• [10:00] Locklainn Linden: listening everything we have done and need done
• [10:00] JayR Cela: I'm lost / lol :_) / but that's typical for me / haaa !
• [10:00] Infinity Linden: just me giving Bart a wedgie for trying to crash my stack
• [10:00] Locklainn Linden: listing*
• [10:00] Enus Linden: thanks gang. see y'all on the wire
• [10:01] Locklainn Linden: bye all
• [10:01] Asterion Coen: have fun enus :)
• [10:01] Tao Takashi: cya!
• [10:01] Infinity Linden: okay.. wanna call it officially closed?
• [10:01] Enus Linden: (transcript to come)
• [10:01] JayR Cela: thanks / byeee :_)
• [10:01] Infinity Linden: ywah!
• [10:01] Enus Linden: closed
• [10:01] Enus Linden:  : )