Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2014.09.16

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List of Speakers

Emily Aries Jenna Felton
Kallista Destiny Kennylex Luckless
Kitto Flora Lexbot Sinister
Lucia Nightfire Mona Eberhardt
Motor Loon Nalates Urriah
Oz Linden Rex Cronon
Simon Linden


[12:02] Simon Linden: OK, let's get started ... there was a server update today as the main channel got the version that's on the RCs

[12:02] Simon Linden:

[12:02] Simon Linden: The forum post has the details.

[12:02] Simon Linden: There's another update going into the RCs tomorrow. This one has a few bug fixes for experience tools

[12:03] Simon Linden: ... and no, I don't have any updates on how that may or may not be released as a product

[12:04] Simon Linden: That's it for my news, so the table's open for questions or topics

[12:05] Kitto Flora: I have a Q this week about KeyFrameMotion and its limitations

[12:05] Mona Eberhardt: I know this is an old question, but I'll regurgitate it: Scripted projectors... When?

[12:05] Simon Linden: ok ... go ahead

[12:05] Kitto Flora: WhicH?

[12:05] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): I was curious if the fix for group chat servers running out of ports had been deployed. Oz said he thought it had been deployed at the last TPV meeting. There doesn't seem to have been an improvement in dying group chats the last few days though.

[12:06] Simon Linden: well, "when" questions are easy ... maybe someday

[12:06] Kallista Destiny: In fact there was an aprent 10 minute outage of all group chats.

[12:06] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): The 0 group server was out y'day

[12:06] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): & a couple days before that 8 was out

[12:06] Simon Linden: Whirly - no, that hasn't been deployed. We got delayed a bit but I hope to see that moving out soon

[12:06] Mona Eberhardt: Ah. Definitely Maybe. You could pick titles for Oasis albums, Simon.

[12:06] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): Hope the fix isn't out yet cos if it is it doesn't seem to be working :(

[12:07] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): ahhh cool

[12:07] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): TY

[12:07] Simon Linden: yeah that chat work has been going a lot slower than I'd like but there's not much that can be done

[12:08] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): I've been creating a rather complex vehicle script that attempts to use RPM as a basis for force. My main issue now (aside from the strangeness of sl physics) is sounds. There are no functions that allow for pitch/speed/tempo changes, and the other options are less than optimal. I had cooked up a mockup command called llSoundAdvanced(list param); that instead of some hardcoded commands, you can simply define things to do like llkeyframe commands are primitive params. I know the client can change the pitch, doppler effect already does that.

[12:08] Simon Linden: We have this update to get out, then there's another one waiting right behind which we've already done some testing with at the Thursday beta group. That's the one I have my hopes set on

[12:08] Simon Linden: (that's about group chat servers)

[12:08] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): I saw . Is this going to be a potential group chat fix?

[12:09] Simon Linden: You're right, Zanibar ... there isn't support to do what you want

[12:10] Kennylex Luckless: Oh, a corner with grren small folks :-)

[12:10] Simon Linden: Aside from just playing different sounds, we don't have scripted ways to manipulate those playback parameters like pitch

[12:11] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): Would be incredibly useful for other things, not just car engine sounds. Sure it can be abused but so can normal sound uploads.

[12:11] Jenna Felton: i'd better not use the prefix "ll" in user-defined commands. Instead of llSoundAdvanced i would prefer mdSoundAdvanced or something else. because this would colide otherwise with an llSoundAdvanced function when lindens release one in future

[12:11] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): mockup as in on paper, not a code

[12:11] Jenna Felton: ok

[12:12] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): certainly wish i could do something that awesome

[12:12] Simon Linden: I'm not sure about that repo, Whirly ... but there was some work going on about the group member query and the retry logic in the viewer

[12:12] Simon Linden: I think it was going to be a bit more lenient with larger groups

[12:13] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): Ok ty

[12:13] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): i do know though that the viewer does have some basic support for pitch changes, otherwise the doppler effect that is been in the viewer forever wouldn't work.

[12:13] Seewo (siwo): this sound thing.... with pitch/play speed... was mentioned like a year ago. Someone wanted it for their vehicle too. ....aaaand, back then Andrew said it is actually simple to code :/

[12:13] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): Really? :o

[12:13] Simon Linden: It would be a lot of fun to add some better scripted sound support, but practically speaking I don't think it's going to get to the top of our list any time soon

[12:14] Jenna Felton: a short question about sounds. When two prims start the same sound via llPlaySound or llLoopSound, will the sounds play in sync or out of sync? Because there could be an undefined delay between the function calls

[12:14] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): They will play out of sync because of the dopppler effect

[12:14] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): it does weird things to sound length

[12:14] Kitto Flora: this sound thing.... with pitch/play speed... was mentioned / requested from day 1. Obvious enhancement. Never been worked on afaik.

[12:15] Jenna Felton: playing in sync would be good when you have a HIFi system or home theatre with 6 speakers that start the same sound and when you look in beakons you would see the sounds come from speakers, not from the amplifier

[12:15] Simon Linden: It's really not deterministic, Jenna. Lots of things can happen ... since you have two scripts like that, they won't start at exactly the same instant. The best you can hope is the both run in the same frame

[12:15] Jenna Felton: ah ok

[12:15] Jenna Felton: thank you both :)

[12:15] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): - llAdjustSoundFrequency(float adjustment); or llAdjustSoundPitch(float adjustment); - llTriggerSoundScaled - play a pitch/time-shifted sound - Feature Request: llAdjustSoundFrequncy or other frequency adjusting function

[12:15] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): I've found that due to the doppler effect Jenna that the sounds will be very wrong if its the same sound.

[12:15] Simon Linden: Then you have two updates going to the viewer ... so bandwidth, network conditions, server load all come into play about when your viewer gets the two commands

[12:15] Kitto Flora: You have to edit your sounds to create the speed change effects, upload and play many different sounds, in sequence. Just uses more scripts more sound storage, more sim cpu time. Not a problem :)

[12:16] Simon Linden: Your viewer might have to download the sound as well

[12:16] Simon Linden: and finally it starts playing ... so maybe near the same time

[12:16] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): Speaking of llAdjust, it would be awesome if llAdjustSoundVolume didn't have a sleep...though that would most likely break some scripts.

[12:17] Kitto Flora: If you se sounds at all - force-download them all the time. Same for textures. Just uses more sim CPU time. Not a problem :)

[12:18] Simon Linden: yes, we've typically added a "fast" version of functions when we remove the sleep so we don't change existing scripts

[12:18] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): Kitto, that is a sub-optimal method of pitch changing as it heavily relies on fast timers and generally sounds pretty awful

[12:18] Kitto Flora: Zanzibar. Yes. SOP.

[12:19] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): granted you'd still need fast timers for a real function unless it automatically smoothily changed the pitch

[12:19] Kitto Flora: SL has always had a JTL policy for sounds and textures, rather than JIT.

[12:20] Jenna Felton: preloading textures would be another very good function. Right now you have to use an invisible prim that sets the needed textures to the faces to force downloading them

[12:20] Kitto Flora: Exactly

[12:20] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): at least it works unlike most of the rarely used sound functions (???)

[12:21] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): sound is seriously the one thing that seems has fallen seriously by the wayside

[12:21] Emily Aries points to the sky. Clouds fell off the road somewhere yeas ago too

[12:21] Emily Aries: *years

[12:21] Simon Linden: yes, there hasn't been much change in sound functionality in a long time

[12:21] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): wl clouds replaced classic clouds

[12:22] Emily Aries: What happened to the nimble clouds after LL bought it?

[12:22] Jenna Felton: clouds depends on the viewer i beleive?

[12:22] Emily Aries: Volumetric clouds would be awesome.

[12:22] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): amusingly, the sim still simulates weather

[12:23] Mona Eberhardt: I thought volumetric clouds were ruled out in one of Oz's meetings, because they'd translate to a tremendous performance hit.

[12:23] Simon Linden: The weather code has been trimmed back ... I remember Andrew simplified wind a while back because nobody was using it, and the updates were consuming bandwidth

[12:23] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): awww

[12:23] Emily Aries: Wouldn't the clouds be client side mainly? It could be an option for those that don't run SL on potatoes.

[12:23] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): as for volumetric clouds, he's right, the majority of OGL functions in SL just don't support volumetric at reasonable speeds

[12:24] Kitto Flora: The old clouds were particle effects - for clients with sub-optimal video cards they were a big load. They also eat into part. effects of other things - fountains and such.

[12:25] Kitto Flora: New cloads are windlight - image pained on the sky

[12:25] Kitto Flora: painted

[12:25] Oz Linden: they also didn't work the way people thought they did....

[12:25] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): ohey oz

[12:25] Emily Aries: The current sky just reminds me of the Truman show film. There but you can't reach it.

[12:25] Jenna Felton: a weather functions for the simulator would be an improvement, really. When your scripts could find out what "temperature" is on the sim, or if there is snowing or windy or misty or there is summer with hot sun shining

[12:26] Lexbot Sinister: nothing stops anyone from making particle clouds still, if they want.

[12:26] Oz Linden: not everyone saw the same cloud in exactly the same place

[12:26] Jenna Felton: Than i could script a bikini that complains that you should be cold when wearing it right here

[12:26] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): weather was mostly for when the viewer was supposed to show rain and weather effects, there were some bugs i think and it was dropped

[12:26] Kitto Flora: Yeah - old cloud was unsynced local random effect

[12:26] Kitto Flora: (local to client)

[12:26] Kitto Flora: Same for starts

[12:26] Kitto Flora: bah. Stars

[12:27] Emily Aries: Do we really need synced clouds?

[12:27] Lexbot Sinister: weather would be great though... even just as parameters for weather that could be used by other scripts

[12:27] Emily Aries: Just something to make the sky look better and fly around in would be nice.

[12:27] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): since the weather system is mostly depreciated at this point it would be kinda pointless to sync clouds

[12:27] Simon Linden: Speaking of the Truman show and feature ideas, I would love to have more configuration of the skybox around island regions ... people already work hard on faking that with megaprims

[12:27] Kitto Flora: It's cloud's illusions we recall. We really don't know clouds at all.

[12:27] ?????? (sniper.siemens): the weather too realistic .... uhm ... avatar with a

[12:28] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): as if we need anymore strain on these poor simulators :P

[12:28] Seewo (siwo): I would prefer SVC-422 to scripted weather...

[12:28] Lucia Nightfire: lol

[12:28] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): Is the windlight improvement project still on the table Oz?

[12:28] Lexbot Sinister: there should be at least the option to have infinite land instead of sea.

[12:28] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): windlight improvement? :o

[12:28] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): The one Cinder was working on

[12:29] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): @ lex YES

[12:29] Jenna Felton: you could really ask the weather via llGetEnv()

[12:29] Kitto Flora: Land would need a heightfield file. Sea has nothing - its flat (Though the system has capability to make bumpy sea).

[12:30] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): or you could take the land edge, smooth it out oside the sim and do a simple perlin noise or something if you want a quick solution

[12:30] Jenna Felton: but that would need a setting for sky boxes too. Or parcell-wide at least, thats correct Simon

[12:30] Oz Linden: The environment enhancements are still on the road map, but not yet being worked on

[12:30] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): Oh good

[12:31] Kitto Flora: Simon - can I ask about the KFM limitation?

[12:31] Nalates Urriah: Do we get to see the raod map?

[12:31] Favorites Drink Tray: Enjoy your Strawberry Daiquiri,mahadma Resident, so sweet and fruity!

[12:31] Simon Linden: sure Kitto, go ahead

[12:31] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): since oz is here, i sort of wanted to do an off topic question since I've been confused for the longest time: In reality, instead of what OGL reports, what state of OGL does SL really use?

[12:31] Strawberry Daiquiri : Mmmm, the sweet delicious taste of strawberries, mahadma Resident!

[12:31] Strawberry Daiquiri : Mmm..

[12:31] Kitto Flora: KeyFrameMotion Caveats say:

[12:31] Strawberry Daiquiri : Mmm..

[12:31] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): since I've heard from a gazillion sources that SL uses fixed function 2.x, 3.x, and one seems to agree

[12:32] Strawberry Daiquiri : Mmm..

[12:32] Strawberry Daiquiri : Mmm..

[12:32] Simon Linden: I honestly have no idea, Kitto ... sorry. When you mean daughter-prim motion, do you mean just within the linkset?

[12:32] Kitto Flora: Yes

[12:32] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): keyframes are physical, but not

[12:32] Strawberry Daiquiri : Mmm..

[12:33] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): so setpos would thenically not have an effect if im not mistaken

[12:33] Kitto Flora: Eactly

[12:33] Simon Linden: Well, the keyframe motion code is based on part of the physics engine ... so doing motion within a linkset would be completely different

[12:33] Kitto Flora: No collisions involved.

[12:33] Strawberry Daiquiri : So sweet and luscious, mahadma Resident!

[12:33] Jenna Felton: when you could predefine a physic hul that will not change due moves inside linkset, than probably moving prims in linkset would be possible while KFM

[12:33] Lexbot Sinister gets terribly annoyed at the sun moving in increments instead of smoothly

[12:34] Simon Linden: The physics engine is moving stuff through the world for it ... altering the linkset would be really different, as that alters the structure of that object

[12:34] Kitto Flora: Weel SetLocalRot() does exacly that. And works fine.

[12:34] Simon Linden: hmmm Lex ... that might be fixable in the viewer, assuming it knows what the region setting is for sun motion

[12:35] Oz Linden: the problem with that is that the viewer does not really know

[12:35] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): I have a feeling my OGL question might of been confusing...looking back on that question i don't understand it (???)

[12:35] Oz Linden: it periodically gets updates about where the sun is now

[12:35] Jenna Felton: set it locally to sunset or sunrise, that is nicer anyways, Lex

[12:35] Simon Linden: Yes Kitto ... I'm just saying those two things are done with completely different subsystems. It would be a lot of work (if even possible) to get the physics engine to do KFM on a child prim

[12:35] Oz Linden: but the position need not be 'near' its last position

[12:36] Kitto Flora: I dont want KFM on a child prim

[12:36] Kitto Flora: KFM applies to root of linkset - thats fine

[12:36] Lexbot Sinister: Setting the sun to static shouldn't eliminate the need of having slowly changing day cycle... but with shadows on, it actually looks ridiculous :(

[12:36] Simon Linden: what did you mean by "daughter-prim motion" ?

[12:36] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): couldn't the viewer interpolate where the sun's new position is?

[12:37] Kitto Flora: Problem is I cant move one prim of the linkset using llSetPos() IN THAT DAUGHTER PRIM, while the linkset is in KFM.

[12:37] Oz Linden: In theory, the viewer could interpolate from the last update toward the current position, but that would make some of the more extreme things that are possible now not work right

[12:37] Kitto Flora: means - daughter prim moves relative to the root prim.

[12:37] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): would have the same issue as skyrim though i imagine

[12:37] Lexbot Sinister: The suns movement arch is fixed, no? So the viewer only needs to know once what the arch looks like, and where the sun on that arch is.

[12:37] Motor Loon: llSetLocalPos ?

[12:38] Kitto Flora: Yes

[12:38] Simon Linden: ah, I got it ... I'm going to guess, but that would change the physics shape and perhaps that's why it's blocked

[12:38] Kitto Flora: or llSetPos() in script inside daughter prim

[12:38] Kitto Flora: But it has no physics shape

[12:38] Oz Linden: no, the arch is not fixed, and the position on it can change by any increment at any update

[12:39] Kitto Flora: And weirdly - you CAN do that on a physical vehicle using VEHICLE code!!

[12:39] Lexbot Sinister: hmmm... it wouldn't kill if any arch updates would happen on entering the sim.

[12:40] Emily Aries: Talking of vehicles and physics how hard would real wheels be?

[12:40] Lexbot Sinister: if someone changes the estate windlight while you are there, oh well.

[12:40] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): man i wish i didn't miss monday

[12:41] Simon Linden: I don't really have an answer, Kitto ... if you want to file a jira on it, please do and we'll get it in the queue to take a look

[12:41] Kitto Flora: OK

[12:41] Simon Linden: Emily - you mean wheels that actually spun, and it did friction calculations and all that?

[12:41] Emily Aries: Yes. :)

[12:41] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): that would simplify my script too <.<

[12:42] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): i gotta calculate linear force as it is instead of letting the wheels do that

[12:42] Simon Linden: It would be really hard .. or at least very costly for a whole region

[12:42] Emily Aries: Maybe set linked prims as wheels setting them with someone like llSetWheel(integer link_num, Vector axis)

[12:42] Kitto Flora: As its currently costing 8 more prims in the linkset, plus one high-speed and 10 low speed scripts - maybe I will.

[12:42] Emily Aries: *something

[12:42] Emily Aries: Oh ok :(

[12:42] Motor Loon: Atleast a visual speed-based rotation for wheel prims would be AWESOME

[12:43] Motor Loon: done viewerside ofcourse

[12:43] Kitto Flora: Motor- simple :

[12:43] Kitto Flora: Slide the texture around the fixed wheel. Change the speed of slide.

[12:43] Kitto Flora: (car building 101)

[12:44] Motor Loon: Yeah I know how to script it, but it's not very efficient on the server end with all those rapid updates

[12:44] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): you can also do a llTargetOmega but that's incredibly strange acting at times

[12:44] Emily Aries: Could wheels be done client side? That way it would be exactly as they are now but spin if the client sees them rubbing against something?

[12:45] Kitto Flora: TargetOmega *is* client side afair.. which is why it looks weird at times?

[12:45] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): granted the viewer does get physics details so there are quite a few things yo ucan do client side

[12:45] Simon Linden: yeah, those are all good examples on how some viewer-side scripted objects would be really powerful. That's a huge amount of work, however

[12:45] Lexbot Sinister: is there any way to determine meters traveled per second?

[12:45] Kitto Flora: Ah - did you want friction-induced motion in the wheels?

[12:45] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): otherwise how does it know the physics hulls with metadata :P

[12:46] Motor Loon: Seems a pretty simple calculation for the viewer to rotation a prim based on the prims diameter and the objects speed moving in a direction

[12:46] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): not entirely, an a low end computer certainly couldn't handle it

[12:46] Motor Loon: Nonsense

[12:47] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): you'd be surprised what low end is on SL....

[12:47] Motor Loon: Basically just a revamp of how targetOmega works now

[12:47] Lexbot Sinister: it's kinda a simple derivata , as long as you can measure the speed.

[12:47] Motor Loon: Oh you mean DX486 66mhz... yeah... then you're maybe right °?°

[12:47] Emily Aries: Just put [] enable awesome stuff in preferences that we can check/uncheck

[12:48] Oz Linden: any time someone says " ... is just a revamp " ... run

[12:48] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): :P

[12:48] Motor Loon: grins

[12:48] Lucia Nightfire: like they said abuot the spiderman reboots

[12:49] Jenna Felton: llTargetOmega is server-side on physical linksets and vehicles are mostly physicals

[12:49] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): slightly off topic but I found these two neat webpages a couple of weeks ago:

[12:50] Simon Linden: That water demo is pretty nice

[12:50] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): Hmm does CEF support webgl?

[12:50] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): yeah that water demo is sexy

[12:51] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): the second link reminds me of something ya'll did a while back when lighting and shadows was brand new

[12:51] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): Updated webkit does qt 5.2.1

[12:52] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle):

[12:53] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): mmh i can hear my computer cooking from the nucleal demo

[12:55] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): man i ran out of things to ask D:

[12:55] Simon Linden: well, things are pretty quiet ... any last questions or ideas?

[12:56] Rex Cronon: u have a nuclear potatoe;)

[12:56] Lucia Nightfire: I'd ask how experiences are coming along, but no one knows, heh

[12:56] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): only questions i have are way off topic :P

[12:56] Kennylex Luckless: Will it be more waffles in SL soon?

[12:56] Oz Linden: they're coming along... :-)

[12:56] Lucia Nightfire: the exp blog is too quiet imo

[12:57] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): any progress on fixing bone morphs being reverted after wearing a rigged mesh?

[12:57] Jenna Felton: when a script is sending an email via llEmail to a foreign email server, is there someone or something that controlls what was sent?

[12:57] Kennylex Luckless: Well, I go back home now, see you all laters

[12:57] Jenna Felton: because i have feeling my email arrives hours later than sent.

[12:57] Rex Cronon: tc kennylex

[12:58] Lexbot Sinister: oh, speaking of something else- Apparently communication from Sl is being blocked by a whole lot of servers due spam

[12:58] Lucia Nightfire: Jenna that has been happening for a few months now

[12:58] Jenna Felton: oh ok

[12:58] Lucia Nightfire: don't know what to blame either

[12:58] Kallista Destiny: I'm still getting rejected e-mail when I file an AR, my return addr is on

[12:58] Simon Linden: Jenna - no, I don't think there is any particular control there. I'm sure there are some limits on size and all that but were you thinking of anything specific?

[12:58] Jenna Felton: i was beleiving there is a linden employe checking every email "can go" , "can go out", "can not go out"

[12:59] Rex Cronon: such a linden would have gone bonkers long ago:)

[12:59] Lucia Nightfire: I have several objects per sim taht IM me while offline and its random that one out of several get delayed several hours

[12:59] Emily Aries laughs at the thought of a poor linden reading the strange things in all the emails.

[12:59] Simon Linden: no, we've been aware of some problems there and are trying to clean it up. The "reply to" address the server uses is an issue, I think

[12:59] Kallista Destiny: Poor linden

[12:59] Simon Linden: That would be a great Linden AV name

[12:59] Lucia Nightfire: I see one object's IM2email delayed while other objects in the same time frame go through

[13:00] Jenna Felton: hm,, i need look into my mail box for an example. but after each mail arrived its not a big issue

[13:00] Jenna Felton: i was just wondering :)

[13:00] Kallista Destiny: I presume it picks it up from the mail to.

[13:00] Kitto Flora: llEmail: Just checking updates from old Trains: Looks like delay is 10 minutes or less.

[13:00] Lexbot Sinister: It happens with hosts for external traffic , like backend of certain games etc

[13:00] Kallista Destiny: Thanks OZ and Simon.

[13:00] Jenna Felton: ah, ok. When you need an example Simon, i could find one

[13:01] Mona Eberhardt: Thanks, Lindens. :)

[13:01] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): Thanks Lindens

[13:01] Zanibar Reyener (nagachief.darkstone): indeed :3

[13:01] Simon Linden: Thanks everyone for coming today and the good talk


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