User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2009 09 01

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  • [2009/09/01 10:59] Stickman Ingmann: Hi Andrew!
  • [2009/09/01 11:00] GG Office Hours HUD v1.5: 11:00 AM: Lexie Linden: SL Volunteering
  • http://slurl.com/secondlife/Ambleside/181/99/30 (Starts now)
  • [2009/09/01 11:00] GG Office Hours HUD v1.5: 11:00 AM: Andrew Linden: Technical issues, SL architecture, physics engine
  • http://slurl.com/secondlife/Denby/213/45/34 (Starts now)
  • [2009/09/01 11:00] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Robot? Heh, only 1/3. :p
  • [2009/09/01 11:00] Andrew Linden: Hiya everone.
  • [2009/09/01 11:00] Latif Khalifa: hi Andrew
  • [2009/09/01 11:00] Random Person: hello
  • [2009/09/01 11:00] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Hey Andrew.
  • [2009/09/01 11:00] Meeter: Welcome to Linden office hours
  • [2009/09/01 11:00] Rex Cronon: hi andrew
  • [2009/09/01 11:00] Economic Core: Hi andrew
  • [2009/09/01 11:00] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Still not finished the circuits on my armour - my partner's been offline.
  • [2009/09/01 11:00] wiSdOm Xenno: making it alittle more interesting
  • [2009/09/01 11:01] Ashiri Sands: It is a very nice AV
  • [2009/09/01 11:01] wiSdOm Xenno: what a nice day
  • [2009/09/01 11:01] Random Person: how is everyone today
  • [2009/09/01 11:01] Andrew Linden: Simon is not scheduled to be out today, but I don't see him online yet.
  • [2009/09/01 11:01] Stickman Ingmann: Ok, now I'm sure Economic's avatar isn't safe. Though the sky blue is a nice color.
  • [2009/09/01 11:01] Economic Core: Not safe? How? :(
  • [2009/09/01 11:02] Stickman Ingmann: Might be the giant cannon on the front.
  • [2009/09/01 11:02] Rex Cronon: sorry sahkolihaa. for some reason i was seeing suae's name above your avatar
  • [2009/09/01 11:02] Economic Core: Pssh.
  • [2009/09/01 11:02] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Heh, no worries. ^^
  • [2009/09/01 11:02] lonetorus Habilis: do we have an agenda?
  • [2009/09/01 11:02] Stickman Ingmann: It's a giant cannon for dispensing love! 250mm love!
  • [2009/09/01 11:02] Random Person: lol
  • [2009/09/01 11:02] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Oh dear.
  • [2009/09/01 11:02] Andrew Linden: I don't have much on my agenda.
  • [2009/09/01 11:03] Andrew Linden: It looks like server-1.30 is still on schedule.
  • [2009/09/01 11:03] Andrew Linden: I think the initial deploy starts next week.
  • [2009/09/01 11:03] Economic Core: Still doing bugfixes?
  • [2009/09/01 11:03] Stickman Ingmann: Anything added on the release notes, Andrew, or is it still a release note, insgular?
  • [2009/09/01 11:03] lonetorus Habilis: andrew, well i would like to hear some about llmedia on prims, and what we should expect in the future on that,
  • [2009/09/01 11:03] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: We seem to have a Fish flying around.
  • [2009/09/01 11:04] Economic Core: He's hiding.
  • [2009/09/01 11:04] Andrew Linden: Yes, I'm still on bug fixes. But things are not moving smoothly. I'm currently trying to make a unit test for some bug, and fixing what internal groups throw on my plate that they claim are super important.
  • [2009/09/01 11:04] Latif Khalifa: lol
  • [2009/09/01 11:04] Economic Core: LL uses unit tests?! *gasp*
  • [2009/09/01 11:04] Andrew Linden: I'm hoping to get back to normal bug fixing soon.
  • [2009/09/01 11:05] GG Office Hours HUD v1.5: 11:00 AM: Lexie Linden: SL Volunteering
  • http://slurl.com/secondlife/Ambleside/181/99/30 (Started 5 minutes ago)
  • [2009/09/01 11:05] GG Office Hours HUD v1.5: 11:00 AM: Andrew Linden: Technical issues, SL architecture, physics engine
  • http://slurl.com/secondlife/Denby/213/45/34 (Started 5 minutes ago)
  • [2009/09/01 11:05] Andrew Linden: Yeah Economic, this is relatively new, and not quite adopted 100% yet.
  • [2009/09/01 11:05] Andrew Linden: So when writing a unit test we often have to break a lot of dependencies to make the tests workable.
  • [2009/09/01 11:05] Economic Core: Ah
  • [2009/09/01 11:06] Andrew Linden: In short, many of us have been reading Feather's book "Working effectively with legacy code", and trying to put its suggestions to work.
  • [2009/09/01 11:06] xstorm Radek: what happen to simon ?
  • [2009/09/01 11:06] Latif Khalifa: a bug ate him :P
  • [2009/09/01 11:07] Andrew Linden: So yeah, that is all I've got on my agenda. The table is open.
  • [2009/09/01 11:07] Economic Core: I haven't been around for a while. but does server 1.30 fix the momentary freeze when avs enter or leave a sim?
  • [2009/09/01 11:07] Andrew Linden: I'm not sure where Simon is. He is not online in the internal IRC channel yet.
  • [2009/09/01 11:07] Ardy Lay: Release notes are really vague this go-around. http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Beta_Server/1.30_Beta_Test
  • [2009/09/01 11:07] xstorm Radek: Andrew i have one for you *GIGGLES* :)~[2009/09/01 11:07] Latif Khalifa: prospero not doing them anymore, oskar is still green ;)
  • [2009/09/01 11:07] Stickman Ingmann: 1.30 Release note: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Beta_Server/1.30
  • [2009/09/01 11:08] Ardy Lay: Ah, yess
  • [2009/09/01 11:08] Latif Khalifa: Andrew, so 1.30 is server side for viewer 2.0 basically? new invntory handling and such
  • [2009/09/01 11:08] Andrew Linden: Heh, yeah those are pretty sparse.
  • [2009/09/01 11:09] Andrew Linden: No Latif not really. Server-1.32 is the deadline for any server-side changes that are required for viewer 2.0.
  • [2009/09/01 11:09] Latif Khalifa: ah ok
  • [2009/09/01 11:09] Andrew Linden: There are a few viewer-2.0 related things in server-1.30, but theya re all internal tools.
  • [2009/09/01 11:09] Economic Core: Will it support RenderAvatarInvisible? Like, will the setting "stick"?
  • [2009/09/01 11:09] Stickman Ingmann: Can you say what's going into 1.32 that's Viewer 2.0 specific?
  • [2009/09/01 11:09] Andrew Linden: and they are all small
  • [2009/09/01 11:10] Andrew Linden: If I knew I might be able to tell Stickman.
  • [2009/09/01 11:10] Latif Khalifa: hehe
  • [2009/09/01 11:10] Stickman Ingmann: Slip some mesh support in and see what happens.
  • [2009/09/01 11:10] Andrew Linden: One thing we needed and I wrote was some imrpoved "stats" formatting that go in our internal logs... stuff like viewer frame rate and stuff
  • [2009/09/01 11:10] Economic Core: Stickman: It's best not to anger the Stability Gods.
  • [2009/09/01 11:11] Andrew Linden: we log stats whenever someone logs out, for measuring average frame rates and stuff like that
  • [2009/09/01 11:11] Andrew Linden: these are the stats that the viewer sends up every 10 min or so
  • [2009/09/01 11:11] wiSdOm Xenno: god?
  • [2009/09/01 11:11] Arawn Spitteler imagines the stability gods of SL as not beiing ruled by any gods of Stability.
  • [2009/09/01 11:11] Andrew Linden: we only log them when they log out
  • [2009/09/01 11:11] Latif Khalifa: yeah i seen viewer send those
  • [2009/09/01 11:11] wiSdOm Xenno: theres no god
  • [2009/09/01 11:11] xstorm Radek: what about away to record stats from the user side ?
  • [2009/09/01 11:12] Latif Khalifa: xstorm, they are already logged in your log file
  • [2009/09/01 11:12] Andrew Linden: What do you mean exactly xstorm?
  • [2009/09/01 11:12] Latif Khalifa: viewer will save statis in the log file from time to time like FPS 34.2 .... etc etc
  • [2009/09/01 11:12] Andrew Linden: Yeah, I think Latif is right.
  • [2009/09/01 11:12] xstorm Radek: info in bandwith / FPS and packet lost will be sent back to LL servers
  • [2009/09/01 11:13] Andrew Linden: Yeah, so the old logging system made it very difficult to add new stats.
  • [2009/09/01 11:13] Techwolf Lupindo: Whats the average fps? Let start a pool. I got 5FPS.
  • [2009/09/01 11:13] Latif Khalifa: 2009-09-01T14:59:34Z INFO: display_stats: FPS: 57.50
  • [2009/09/01 11:13] Techwolf Lupindo: :-)
  • [2009/09/01 11:13] Economic Core: I have no idea, probably 15 though
  • [2009/09/01 11:13] xstorm Radek: this way tech support can see if a client is having problems or if its LL server
  • [2009/09/01 11:13] Andrew Linden: so it was changed to be more flexible and log more stuff if the viewer happens to supply more info.
  • [2009/09/01 11:13] Andrew Linden: anyway, small stuff like that.
  • [2009/09/01 11:14] Latif Khalifa: i've seen the CAP msg from the viewr, it contains a lot of info
  • [2009/09/01 11:14] Stickman Ingmann: Hi Simon!
  • [2009/09/01 11:14] Economic Core: Oh, even worse; 8FPS in actuality
  • [2009/09/01 11:14] Latif Khalifa: morning Simon :)
  • [2009/09/01 11:14] Andrew Linden wonders what really is in server-1.30. I've jsut been fixing bugs there.
  • [2009/09/01 11:14] Simon Linden: hello everyone :)
  • [2009/09/01 11:14] lufpleh Obstreperous: is there a big differanc ein logging between standard viewer adn snowglobe?
  • [2009/09/01 11:14] naith Smit: hey simon
  • [2009/09/01 11:14] Rex Cronon: hi simon
  • [2009/09/01 11:14] Glurp Gurbux: hiyah
  • [2009/09/01 11:14] Stickman Ingmann: Techwolf, if you really wanna gague people's FPS, set up a thing which forces their camera in a certain spot so they all see the same thing. Also, they'd have to sit on it or wear it, since requesting camera permissions can't be done by any random object.
  • [2009/09/01 11:15] Andrew Linden: lufpleh, I doubt there are any differences between standard stats and snowglow stats.
  • [2009/09/01 11:15] wiSdOm Xenno: no such thing
  • [2009/09/01 11:15] xstorm Radek: hi Simon great to see you
  • [2009/09/01 11:15] Stickman Ingmann: What kind of bugs have you been working on Andrew?
  • [2009/09/01 11:15] Stickman Ingmann: And Simon! What have you been working on? :)
  • [2009/09/01 11:15] Techwolf Lupindo: Been a lot of chat this morning about secuity issues where estate and parcel ban are not working.
  • [2009/09/01 11:15] Simon Linden: Unfortunately it's still the-project-that-must-not-be-named
  • [2009/09/01 11:15] Stickman Ingmann: Andrew, a graph claimed Snowglobe got a higher FPS.
  • [2009/09/01 11:15] Andrew Linden: Hey Simon. The release notes for 1.30 seem sparse:
  • [2009/09/01 11:15] Latif Khalifa: Simon has been working on his beurt sleep :D
  • [2009/09/01 11:15] Andrew Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Beta_Server/1.30
  • [2009/09/01 11:16] lufpleh Obstreperous: I thought my improved performance on Snowglobe was down to less logging
  • [2009/09/01 11:16] xstorm Radek: *GIGGLES* :)~[2009/09/01 11:16] Stickman Ingmann: I think I worked on that project once, Simon. Might have just been another project with the same name, though.
  • [2009/09/01 11:16] Andrew Linden: You know what? I think I saw someone mention in IRC today that they had some new release notes. Perhaps they'll publish more info soon.
  • [2009/09/01 11:16] xstorm Radek: poor Simon stuck do to NDA
  • [2009/09/01 11:16] Simon Linden: Spent a bunch of time writing up API design docs, but not coding. Haven't fixed bugs in a while
  • [2009/09/01 11:16] Sahkolihaa Contepomi waves to the others who joined.
  • [2009/09/01 11:16] Sebastean Steamweaver: You were right! They said IRC.
  • [2009/09/01 11:16] Sebastean Steamweaver: He said*
  • [2009/09/01 11:16] Stickman Ingmann: Andrew, when the server's made live, will the release notes cover more stuff? Or will the SEC issues will be quiet?
  • [2009/09/01 11:16] Andrew Linden: Yes, we use IRC internally for some communication.
  • [2009/09/01 11:17] Economic Core: SEC issues are always quiet
  • [2009/09/01 11:17] Simon Linden: I haven't heard of any policy changes about discussing SECs
  • [2009/09/01 11:17] Andrew Linden: SEC issues are always quiet, yets. I don't know of many serious SEC issues fixed in server-1.30 except for a few crash modes.
  • [2009/09/01 11:17] Latif Khalifa: well I know 2-3 i posted :P none of them are fixed in 1.30 ;)
  • [2009/09/01 11:17] lonetorus Habilis: irc > group chat
  • [2009/09/01 11:18] Economic Core: Lol.
  • [2009/09/01 11:18] Stickman Ingmann: I haven't dealt much with SECs. My only experience was getting hit by one in a server pilot rollout and seeing it wasn't mentioned in the release notes. I didn't know if it was added after the final rollout or not.
  • [2009/09/01 11:19] Andrew Linden: Hrm... bug mentions are sparse today. Perhaps I should start with SVC-22
  • [2009/09/01 11:19] Meeter: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-22
  • [#SVC-22] Vehicles crossing region borders aren't always treated as vehicles and can get incorrectly returned if the destination parcel is no-entry or parcel-full
  • [2009/09/01 11:19] Stickman Ingmann: Knowing what I know now, I would have approached the situation a lot differently than I did.
  • [2009/09/01 11:19] Latif Khalifa: haahaha
  • [2009/09/01 11:19] Arawn Spitteler: Search isn't this department, is it? Someone's turned up an issue, of mature subject matter on PG Search. Of course, this isn't as important as SVC-22 or SVC- 93 and certainly isn't as important as SVC-2931
  • [2009/09/01 11:19] Meeter: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2931
  • [#SVC-2931] llSetLinkPrimitiveParams content breakage, only moves agents 54 meters now
  • [2009/09/01 11:19] Meeter: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-93
  • [#SVC-93] llSetPrimitiveParams PRIM_ROTATION and llSetRot incorrectly implemented for child prims
  • [2009/09/01 11:19] Latif Khalifa: wow 20 minutes in, and the first mention of svc-22, we are late today
  • [2009/09/01 11:19] lonetorus Habilis: andrew, would be nice to squash the bug that alows ppl to override permissions and or chnage creator name at will
  • [2009/09/01 11:19] Stickman Ingmann: Arawn, that's been that way for ages. I figured it was just misfiled stuff, people trying to hit a wider audience of people who didn't want to see it.
  • [2009/09/01 11:20] Latif Khalifa: Andrew, there is a lot of concern about estate bans being circumvnted
  • [2009/09/01 11:20] Rex Cronon: what r talkig about lonetorus?
  • [2009/09/01 11:20] Latif Khalifa: SVC-4632 got 230 votes
  • [2009/09/01 11:20] Meeter: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4632
  • [#SVC-4632] People getting past Estate and Land bans
  • [2009/09/01 11:20] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Urgh, estate bans not working is a major pain for me. :<
  • [2009/09/01 11:21] Stickman Ingmann: Agreed, Sahkolihaa.
  • [2009/09/01 11:21] Andrew Linden: lonetorus, I'm wondering which particular permissions override you're talking about.
  • [2009/09/01 11:21] xstorm Radek: still a prim rotation error ?/
  • [2009/09/01 11:21] Andrew Linden: There was one that was sorta fixed in the last 1.27
  • [2009/09/01 11:21] Sebastean Steamweaver: And when they get shoved to the edge of the sim to bounce around indefinitely till they leave, it's a way of griefing back the griefers! . . . wait, is that a bad thing?
  • [2009/09/01 11:21] Stickman Ingmann: Sebastean, apparently they can still interact with the sim while bouncing.
  • [2009/09/01 11:21] Andrew Linden: And the rest of the fix is sitting in a branch that needs QA, and isn't going to make it to server-1.30, but I'm hoping to help it get into 1.32.
  • [2009/09/01 11:22] Sebastean Steamweaver: Yeah,I know Stick ;) It was humor D:
  • [2009/09/01 11:22] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Stickman - I've seen that.
  • [2009/09/01 11:22] Stickman Ingmann: Sebastean! SRS BNZ. NO HUMER.
  • [2009/09/01 11:22] lonetorus Habilis: andrew, well, we had a person come in using the cryo client, and bought some anims, first he forced permissions on then, then he chnaged the creator ame, the original asset uuid stayed the same
  • [2009/09/01 11:23] Stickman Ingmann: That seems odd. I thought assets were write-once.
  • [2009/09/01 11:23] Andrew Linden: Huh... anims are hard to lock down. Their full data must be downloadable by the client.
  • [2009/09/01 11:23] Arawn Spitteler: He changed the Creator Name on a UUID?
  • [2009/09/01 11:23] Stickman Ingmann: A refetch from the database would probably fix that change.
  • [2009/09/01 11:23] lonetorus Habilis: andrew, yeah but i suppose its a asset bug, since the original uuid did not chnage
  • [2009/09/01 11:23] Andrew Linden: As to creator override... that sounds odd and should not be possible... in the long term
  • [2009/09/01 11:23] Economic Core: Andrew, it's been used for ages.
  • [2009/09/01 11:24] lonetorus Habilis: well, the anim name was chnaged to ian linden
  • [2009/09/01 11:24] lonetorus Habilis: err creator name
  • [2009/09/01 11:24] Andrew Linden: there is a way to "temporarily" spoof the contents of an asset, but that bug is fixed in server-1.30.
  • [2009/09/01 11:24] Economic Core: Every other day someone pelts me with objects owned by Phillip Linden.
  • [2009/09/01 11:24] Economic Core: *CREATED BY
  • [2009/09/01 11:24] Sebastean Steamweaver: That means they have the ability to write to the database
  • [2009/09/01 11:24] Andrew Linden: What I'm wondering Economic is... are they changing the asset's creator permenantly? or temporarily?
  • [2009/09/01 11:24] Latif Khalifa: well all you need is one full prim object from philip and you can make whatever you want from them
  • [2009/09/01 11:24] Sebastean Steamweaver: Economic, that's not too hard.
  • [2009/09/01 11:24] Arawn Spitteler: How do we protect date of creation from the hacking of Linden LAbs? LL Might e trusworthy, but trust is to be careful
  • [2009/09/01 11:25] Latif Khalifa: no they don't change it, they use 1 full perm prim to create stuff
  • [2009/09/01 11:25] xstorm Radek: ?? own by philip linden ?
  • [2009/09/01 11:25] lonetorus Habilis: well, it can be copied and exchanged, and still it retains the new creator name and the original uuid (for anims)
  • [2009/09/01 11:25] Latif Khalifa: owned? or created?
  • [2009/09/01 11:25] Stickman Ingmann: If the UUID changed, and they did find a way to write to the database, that's something theoretically impossible. I keep hearing that the asset server "likes to" or "prefers to" write once.
  • [2009/09/01 11:25] Sebastean Steamweaver: Do you have an example of the anim, Ionet?
  • [2009/09/01 11:25] Andrew Linden: Send me (by email) the name of the animation asset in your inventory that has been copied and had its creator overriden.
  • [2009/09/01 11:26] Latif Khalifa: i have never seen owned, i have seen created
  • [2009/09/01 11:26] Andrew Linden: I'm curious about it and will look into it later today, if I have enough info to follow.
  • [2009/09/01 11:26] Economic Core: IM sent, Andrew.
  • [2009/09/01 11:26] Arawn Spitteler: I think all my Megaprim Work is credited to Gene Replacement
  • [2009/09/01 11:26] xstorm Radek: there is some sort of new copybot i have seen that may do that
  • [2009/09/01 11:26] lonetorus Habilis: andrew, sure thing, as we where told by support/and when dmca'ing that this could be pretty probematic when removing content from grid, since the asset uuid does not chnage
  • [2009/09/01 11:27] lonetorus Habilis: ill write it up in a email
  • [2009/09/01 11:27] lonetorus Habilis: we have it set up in world too, so it cane be compared etc
  • [2009/09/01 11:27] Arawn Spitteler: When the asset server writes once, is it recorded with Date and such? Date of Revelation is important, in IP Law
  • [2009/09/01 11:27] Rex Cronon: economic. sinc there are in your library objects created by lindes that are full perms is not hat had to make an bullet that says its creator is a linden:)
  • [2009/09/01 11:27] Economic Core: Yeah.
  • [2009/09/01 11:27] Andrew Linden: lonetorus, if you have an example asset that was "changed" I'd like to look at it
  • [2009/09/01 11:27] Andrew Linden: our asset system is basically write-only
  • [2009/09/01 11:28] lonetorus Habilis: andrew, not on this account, but ill set you up after the OH
  • [2009/09/01 11:28] Sebastean Steamweaver: write-only, or read-only?
  • [2009/09/01 11:28] xstorm Radek: but owner and maker of a item i do not think can be mess with as of yet
  • [2009/09/01 11:28] Andrew Linden: uh... I meant write-once
  • [2009/09/01 11:28] Economic Core: Wrinte-once, read-only probably
  • [2009/09/01 11:28] Arawn Spitteler: WORM, Write Once - Read Manytimes
  • [2009/09/01 11:28] Sebastean Steamweaver: HEhe
  • [2009/09/01 11:28] Random Person: here Andrew, here is an example of a creatorless prim
  • [2009/09/01 11:28] Economic Core: afk
  • [2009/09/01 11:29] Andrew Linden: Ok thanks Random. I'll try to look at that one.
  • [2009/09/01 11:30] Arawn Spitteler: Create by Phillip Linden?
  • [2009/09/01 11:30] Meeter: Timecheck : office hours is half over
  • [2009/09/01 11:30] xstorm Radek: a items with a creator name and owner name is not the same
  • [2009/09/01 11:30] Glurp Gurbux: the library party hat is full mod, yu can alter it however you want to seem like he made it
  • [2009/09/01 11:30] xstorm Radek: if you are hit by a item its sent by the owner
  • [2009/09/01 11:31] lonetorus Habilis: andrew, artoo will give you this anim with forced creator name, as well as theoriginal
  • [2009/09/01 11:31] xstorm Radek: it is the owner of the item not the creator that sent it
  • [2009/09/01 11:31] Sebastean Steamweaver: Ionetorus, you mean that the original wasn't affected?
  • [2009/09/01 11:31] Andrew Linden: lonetorus, actually what I want are the names of the items in inventory, and the name of the person whose inventory they are in
  • [2009/09/01 11:31] lonetorus Habilis: the original stayed the same as alweays
  • [2009/09/01 11:32] Andrew Linden: send it to me via email: andrew@
  • [2009/09/01 11:32] xstorm Radek: never get owner and creator mix up please
  • [2009/09/01 11:32] lonetorus Habilis: "JAY_Dance3_AKEYO_copybotted by ian linden ?" in my inv
  • [2009/09/01 11:32] Random Person: well naturally, newer or fairly newer residants won't know the difference
  • [2009/09/01 11:33] lonetorus Habilis: oh, but it seems to be reverted to a diff creator name now
  • [2009/09/01 11:33] Random Person: residents*
  • [2009/09/01 11:33] lonetorus Habilis: so i guess it is temporary to some degree
  • [2009/09/01 11:33] Stickman Ingmann sends an email to andrew@* and every andrew on the internet gets it.
  • [2009/09/01 11:33] Sebastean Steamweaver: Ion, is it the original creator's name?
  • [2009/09/01 11:33] lonetorus Habilis: no
  • [2009/09/01 11:33] xstorm Radek: a copybot item will have the persons name that has copybot the item not the real creator of that item
  • [2009/09/01 11:34] Stickman Ingmann: Ionetorus, sounds about right. Probably changed it on the sim, or found a way to spoof it directly to the clients. Though I imagine exposing a client's IP is another much more dangerous exploit that I would hope isn't possible.
  • [2009/09/01 11:35] Sebastean Steamweaver eats a wraith corpse. Sebastean Steamweaver seems more experienced!
  • [2009/09/01 11:35] Arawn Spitteler: To expose the IP, you use a Streaming Media Server
  • [2009/09/01 11:35] Economic Core: You can get an agent's IP by a media stream piped through a script that logs IPs
  • [2009/09/01 11:35] lonetorus Habilis: well, this person has his accounts banned all the time
  • [2009/09/01 11:35] lonetorus Habilis: i suppose it reverted somehow when he was permed
  • [2009/09/01 11:35] Stickman Ingmann: Ghost horse is watching you meet.
  • [2009/09/01 11:36] Sebastean Steamweaver waits for it.
  • [2009/09/01 11:36] Rex Cronon: so. is possible for soebody o change the creator of the lion and the horse?
  • [2009/09/01 11:36] Andrew Linden: ugh, always so much work to do
  • [2009/09/01 11:36] Random Person: lol
  • [2009/09/01 11:36] Stickman Ingmann: Ionetorus, we should go over internal architecture sometime. Most of us seem to have reached the conclusion that the change was temporary before you noticed it had reverted. A little knowledge of how the internals work can go a long way for deduction.
  • [2009/09/01 11:37] lonetorus Habilis: yeah, sounds good
  • [2009/09/01 11:37] Arawn Spitteler: Alexandria seems to have couple scripts with no creator
  • [2009/09/01 11:37] Sebastean Steamweaver: Horsie :D
  • [2009/09/01 11:37] lonetorus Habilis: fusing, as it was pretty persistent, for weeks, stayed "ian linden" across sim chnages etci mean, pretty con
  • [2009/09/01 11:37] Arawn Spitteler coud be just lagging
  • [2009/09/01 11:38] xstorm Radek: is there a way yet to use the client computer key and use it with the UUID number a user has so that a better and stronger user id can be made ?
  • [2009/09/01 11:38] Andrew Linden: ah yes, lonetorus, I think I know how the creator id was spoofed then, if the creator id has returned to what it was supposed to be
  • [2009/09/01 11:38] Random Person: Andrew - that is a script with no creator
  • [2009/09/01 11:38] Andrew Linden: hrm... did I actually fix that is server-1.30?
  • [2009/09/01 11:38] Stickman Ingmann: Ionetorus, was probably cached like that in your local inventory. *guess*
  • [2009/09/01 11:38] Andrew Linden: crap, I think that fix is actually sitting in a branch that didn't get in. sigh
  • [2009/09/01 11:39] Stickman Ingmann: Poor Andrew. :( But at least it's fixed pending QA.
  • [2009/09/01 11:39] Sebastean Steamweaver: Silver Surfer teleporter?
  • [2009/09/01 11:39] Arawn Spitteler: Simon ight like the surfboard for this house, it's a short range TP, that the user can morph at owners permission
  • [2009/09/01 11:40] lonetorus Habilis: stick, could be, i did not try to clean my cache when looking at this
  • [2009/09/01 11:40] Simon Linden: Thanks, I'll take a copy ... I haven't spent much time building in-world lately :(
  • [2009/09/01 11:40] Simon Linden: The last project was that polling/voting device sitting on the corner
  • [2009/09/01 11:40] wiSdOm Xenno: welp that was quick
  • [2009/09/01 11:41] Andrew Linden: What's up with the surfboard?
  • [2009/09/01 11:41] Arawn Spitteler: It started life as a teleporter, before SVC-2931 was borked, but didn't win any prize, because I tend to plywood box fashion, so I made a flying carpet, but people didn't like sticking their butts in the air, as they bowed towards Mecca, so I made it polymorphic, and its guts could likely be stuck into anybody's prim
  • [2009/09/01 11:41] wiSdOm Xenno: you have a good day
  • [2009/09/01 11:42] Sebastean Steamweaver: Thanks wiS :) You too
  • [2009/09/01 11:42] Rex Cronon: tc
  • [2009/09/01 11:43] Simon Linden: I think the trouble with teleporters is you have to actually have something interesting to teleport to...
  • [2009/09/01 11:43] Latif Khalifa: lol
  • [2009/09/01 11:43] xstorm Radek: *GIGGLES* :)~[2009/09/01 11:43] Stickman Ingmann: Ah, yes. The infamous content issue.
  • [2009/09/01 11:43] Glurp Gurbux: perhaps trying harder to make things interesting is the answer
  • [2009/09/01 11:43] Sebastean Steamweaver: The trouble with teleporters is that you can't teleport agents:)
  • [2009/09/01 11:43] Arawn Spitteler: If someone's script can be rescripted, then a thng fro Linden Labs could be a marvelous griefers toy. This is set for unreachable locations in Spirit City
  • [2009/09/01 11:43] Andrew Linden: There's only one trouble with teleports?
  • [2009/09/01 11:44] Latif Khalifa: llTeleportAgent() one of the most requested things ever
  • [2009/09/01 11:44] Simon Linden: yeah, there's a long discussion ... what's currently the best way to bulid them?
  • [2009/09/01 11:44] xstorm Radek: Simon hang with me for one week you will hate to see me walking all over to see what out of place in sl
  • [2009/09/01 11:44] Sebastean Steamweaver: Well, it's up there at least.
  • [2009/09/01 11:44] Arawn Spitteler: Teleport Agents? This treats them as linked prims.
  • [2009/09/01 11:44] Arawn Spitteler: Have we a Jira for the llTeleportAgent feature?
  • [2009/09/01 11:44] Andrew Linden: Probab ly.
  • [2009/09/01 11:44] Sebastean Steamweaver: Right now? Having them sit on a prim and then having the prim carry them, or offset them using llSEtLinkPrimitiveParams, or llSitOffset
  • [2009/09/01 11:44] Economic Core: Yes
  • [2009/09/01 11:44] Sebastean Steamweaver: Most definitely
  • [2009/09/01 11:44] Sebastean Steamweaver: It has 200+ votes
  • [2009/09/01 11:44] Rex Cronon: geee. wouldn't benice to hav a lsl functionnamed llTpAgent(UUID key) that ask agent if he/she want to be tp:)
  • [2009/09/01 11:45] Economic Core: Also, I would like an llFindInSphere(CenterOfSphere,Range,TargetFlags) function
  • [2009/09/01 11:45] Andrew Linden: Yes, that would be nice. We'd have to be able to mute that. And throttle it too, probably.
  • [2009/09/01 11:45] Economic Core: I just finished writing a similar function for my LuaEngine for OpenSim >_>
  • [2009/09/01 11:45] xstorm Radek: yes Rex thats what i was talking about
  • [2009/09/01 11:45] Simon Linden: And figure out how to define a teleport
  • [2009/09/01 11:45] Sebastean Steamweaver: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-212
  • [2009/09/01 11:45] Arawn Spitteler: We hav llTeleportAgentHome, that can be used as Griefing, if you can trap an avatar in your parcel, so why not llTPAgent?
  • [2009/09/01 11:45] Meeter: [#SVC-212] New Feature Request - llTeleportAgent
  • [2009/09/01 11:45] Sebastean Steamweaver: 423 votes
  • [2009/09/01 11:45] Latif Khalifa: i would really like the sim freeze problem to be fixed
  • [2009/09/01 11:46] Latif Khalifa: its really crippling the experience
  • [2009/09/01 11:46] xstorm Radek: its part of the same thing in a way
  • [2009/09/01 11:46] Sebastean Steamweaver: They also have several good suggestions for grief solutions.
  • [2009/09/01 11:46] Sebastean Steamweaver: A throttle on how many times it can trigger on a unique UUID per X seconds, for example.
  • [2009/09/01 11:46] Andrew Linden: Thanks for the jira number Sebastian.
  • [2009/09/01 11:46] Simon Linden: Latif - yep, me too. It's a lot of different problems, but needs some attention
  • [2009/09/01 11:46] Andrew Linden makes a note.
  • [2009/09/01 11:46] lonetorus Habilis: it should probably have a pretty long script delay akin to email
  • [2009/09/01 11:46] xstorm Radek: UUID + Client Computer ID
  • [2009/09/01 11:47] Latif Khalifa: Simon, sim freezes up to 30s or more sometimes, its really horrible
  • [2009/09/01 11:47] Economic Core: I agree with Latif
  • [2009/09/01 11:47] Simon Linden: 30s is epic
  • [2009/09/01 11:47] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: ...yikes.
  • [2009/09/01 11:47] Economic Core: And it occurs when agents teleport into or out of a simulator
  • [2009/09/01 11:47] lufpleh Obstreperous: 20 secs is normal
  • [2009/09/01 11:47] lonetorus Habilis: yeah, sim freeze on agent arrival should have pretty high priority XD
  • [2009/09/01 11:47] Sebastean Steamweaver: Andrew, allthough the "PosJump" replacement could be used for other things, I think you'lll find the largest use was as a teleporter.
  • [2009/09/01 11:48] Sebastean Steamweaver: Something which could be replaced almost entirely by something like llTeleportAgent
  • [2009/09/01 11:48] Simon Linden: Is that 20 or 30 seconds of absolutely no new updates, or everything at a really bad crawl?
  • [2009/09/01 11:48] Stickman Ingmann: xstorm, UUIDs are so public there's no hiding them. It'd probably difficulty along the lines of close-sourcing the viewer, or only allowing LL-signed viewers to access the grid. You'd need to police every scripter or something. Just... doesn't work.
  • [2009/09/01 11:48] Economic Core: Simon: No updates.
  • [2009/09/01 11:48] Economic Core: Entire sim freezes
  • [2009/09/01 11:48] Economic Core: It's the teleport code
  • [2009/09/01 11:48] Latif Khalifa: Simon, absolutely 0 packets from sim to all agents, no matter of their geo location
  • [2009/09/01 11:48] lufpleh Obstreperous: crawl, all most dead stop
  • [2009/09/01 11:48] Simon Linden: ah right, yeah, that can happen
  • [2009/09/01 11:48] Stickman Ingmann: Economic, have we actually isolated the issue point?
  • [2009/09/01 11:48] Economic Core: Stick: Twisted and I did a while ago
  • [2009/09/01 11:49] Stickman Ingmann: So, serialization/unserialization?
  • [2009/09/01 11:49] Economic Core: We couldn't get a Linden to comment on it though
  • [2009/09/01 11:49] Stickman Ingmann: I find tricking them into saying something and then pasting it on the Jira comments works well.
  • [2009/09/01 11:49] Latif Khalifa: Simon its quite easy to detect by LSL, take a look at
  • [2009/09/01 11:49] Latif Khalifa: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4196?focusedCommentId=120005&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#action_120005
  • [2009/09/01 11:49] Meeter: [#SVC-4196] Avatar entering sim or rezzing object causes scripts to stop processing and queing events for 3-7 seconds
  • [2009/09/01 11:49] Sebastean Steamweaver: They might be wearing mono-scripts.
  • [2009/09/01 11:49] xstorm Radek: if the client computer ID was just LL server side and the UUID was seen only then it be a stronger way to stop a number of problems plus help support
  • [2009/09/01 11:50] Simon Linden: It's threading, deserialization, network (sometimes), disk i/o (sometimes), in all sorts of interesting combinations
  • [2009/09/01 11:50] Economic Core: And yes, I do think it's script serialization
  • [2009/09/01 11:50] Latif Khalifa: that scripts gets executed exactly 0 times during the freeze
  • [2009/09/01 11:50] Sebastean Steamweaver: I have a suspicion that it's realated.
  • [2009/09/01 11:50] Sebastean Steamweaver: related*
  • [2009/09/01 11:50] Economic Core: \For example, if a new bie with 0 scripts enters the sim, the lag time is very shot
  • [2009/09/01 11:50] Latif Khalifa: so the sim is stuck in 1 frame for up to 30-60sec
  • [2009/09/01 11:50] Rex Cronon: ther is a problem with the script freezess. if u r in a dmabe nabledsim each time somebody gets killed and returns the sim kind of freezes:(
  • [2009/09/01 11:50] Economic Core: Whereas my main account, with it's enormous amounts of scripts, causes a 30s lag spike
  • [2009/09/01 11:51] Arawn Spitteler: I'm not sur, we want to require the computer key, but griefers would be able to get around that by hacking a viewer, to present a false key
  • [2009/09/01 11:51] Simon Linden: I'm pretty sure you can get the same freeze just rezzing complex objects with lots of prims and running scripts
  • [2009/09/01 11:51] Sebastean Steamweaver: Economic, if you don't mind my asking, what are all of those sccripts for?
  • [2009/09/01 11:51] Stickman Ingmann: 98MB of scripts, Economic? ;)
  • [2009/09/01 11:51] xstorm Radek: oh the script running lag thats why i did say some time stop all scripts on teleport and then start only the ones as needed
  • [2009/09/01 11:51] Sebastean Steamweaver: It wouldn't happen to be resizer scripts, would it? :)
  • [2009/09/01 11:51] lufpleh Obstreperous: agrees with Simon
  • [2009/09/01 11:51] Sebastean Steamweaver: SVC-2885
  • [2009/09/01 11:51] Meeter: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2885
  • [#SVC-2885] llSetObjectScale and llGetObjectScale
  • [2009/09/01 11:52] Economic Core: Well, Simon, if you go to the Sandboxes, the lag is at unacceptable levels due to people simply entering or leaving the sim
  • [2009/09/01 11:52] Sebastean Steamweaver: SVC-2105
  • [2009/09/01 11:52] xstorm Radek: like running animations that do not need to be running any more
  • [2009/09/01 11:52] Stickman Ingmann: Smooth, Sebastean. Very smooth.
  • [2009/09/01 11:52] Meeter: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2105
  • [#SVC-2105] llSetLinkListPrimitiveParams() for setting multiple, specific linked items
  • [2009/09/01 11:52] Sebastean Steamweaver: Thanks Stick :D
  • [2009/09/01 11:52] Economic Core: Same deal with the Welcome Area.
  • [2009/09/01 11:52] lonetorus Habilis: *grins*
  • [2009/09/01 11:52] Simon Linden: The resizing operation is going to be a potential performance problem. The physics engine can use up a lot of cpu time if that objects is touching or near a lot of other things
  • [2009/09/01 11:52] Latif Khalifa: i should stup that script to email Simon every time it detects freeze of 15 seconds or more
  • [2009/09/01 11:53] Stickman Ingmann: Woo, dance Arawn!
  • [2009/09/01 11:53] Latif Khalifa: setup* :D
  • [2009/09/01 11:53] lonetorus Habilis: i vote for llgetlinkprimparam aswell :D
  • [2009/09/01 11:53] Sebastean Steamweaver: Is that SVC-244?
  • [2009/09/01 11:53] Meeter: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-244
  • [#SVC-244] LSL functions for estate tools.
  • [2009/09/01 11:53] Sebastean Steamweaver: No
  • [2009/09/01 11:53] Sebastean Steamweaver: SVC-422
  • [2009/09/01 11:53] Meeter: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-422
  • [#SVC-422] A solution to scams, money theft - etc. New parcels Flag "Block Transactions
  • [2009/09/01 11:53] Stickman Ingmann: Simon, just make it not work on physical objects.
  • [2009/09/01 11:53] Arawn Spitteler: llGetLinkPriitiveParams is a must
  • [2009/09/01 11:53] Sebastean Steamweaver: Hmm
  • [2009/09/01 11:53] Economic Core: I vote for SVC 422
  • [2009/09/01 11:53] Sebastean Steamweaver: SVC-424
  • [2009/09/01 11:53] Meeter: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-424
  • [#SVC-424] Permissions not automatically granted to scripts in non-root prims of attachments.
  • [2009/09/01 11:54] Sebastean Steamweaver: I give up XD
  • [2009/09/01 11:54] wiSdOm Xenno: i'm tryin to get outa here
  • [2009/09/01 11:54] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Teleports down?
  • [2009/09/01 11:54] Economic Core: Probably lag
  • [2009/09/01 11:54] wiSdOm Xenno: yeah well it wouldn't let me
  • [2009/09/01 11:54] Andrew Linden: I'm going to have to run right at 12:00. I've got another meeting that starts then.
  • [2009/09/01 11:54] Simon Linden: Stickman - that doesn't necessarily help. THe physics engine has to know about the new shape in any case, and that can cause slowdowns
  • [2009/09/01 11:54] Stickman Ingmann: Wisdom, try walking to a neighboring sim that's empty then teleport?
  • [2009/09/01 11:55] Andrew Linden: If anyone has some issue or topic they've been waiting to mention, they should bring it up now.
  • [2009/09/01 11:55] Meeter: Timecheck : office hours is almost over
  • [2009/09/01 11:55] Simon Linden: but the less it's colliding with, the less number of collision event it has to deal with
  • [2009/09/01 11:55] Stickman Ingmann: Simon, what happens when a user grabs it and resizes it themselves, though? The function's supposed to do the same thing.
  • [2009/09/01 11:55] Random Person: ok
  • [2009/09/01 11:55] Latif Khalifa: Simon, now with the resizer scripts you have 200 script load PLUS the physics load, so implementing the scale will at least eliminate the script load
  • [2009/09/01 11:55] Sebastean Steamweaver: It has to deal with that anyway.
  • [2009/09/01 11:55] Random Person: i was concerned about what I've heard is a sim-wide copybot?
  • [2009/09/01 11:55] Economic Core: Lua scripting engine for Second Life would alleviate some threading issues ;o
  • [2009/09/01 11:55] Sebastean Steamweaver: The user just does it with all the more lag due to the scripts used.
  • [2009/09/01 11:55] Ardy Lay: But, the resize function is being requested for attachemtns, are those not ignored by the physics engine?
  • [2009/09/01 11:56] Sebastean Steamweaver: Mainly for attachments, yes Ardy
  • [2009/09/01 11:56] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Sim-wide copybot? Eek, THAT would be bloody scary to see.
  • [2009/09/01 11:56] Random Person: since i've invested almost 8 thousand real dollars on a real estate launching early next year
  • [2009/09/01 11:56] Sebastean Steamweaver: And yeah, they're automatically phantom.
  • [2009/09/01 11:56] Simon Linden: Right, a one-time change isn't too expensive. I think it will get to be more significant if people are using to really animate and move objects around
  • [2009/09/01 11:56] Sebastean Steamweaver: It's got uses outside of attachments too though.
  • [2009/09/01 11:56] xstorm Radek: i have seen copybot do a copy of korea1 and they do it in link parts
  • [2009/09/01 11:56] Andrew Linden: Random, such a copybot is possible in theory. All content shape and textures, but not object contents or scripts.
  • [2009/09/01 11:56] Random Person: ah ok
  • [2009/09/01 11:56] Stickman Ingmann: Should have given it to me, Random. I could have used the money. :D
  • [2009/09/01 11:56] Sebastean Steamweaver: Still, Simon, it's already being done, the "Hard Way" - for server and user.
  • [2009/09/01 11:57] Economic Core: Andrew: Emerald's adding a Second Inventory-like system that CAN export all child assets
  • [2009/09/01 11:57] Economic Core: :P
  • [2009/09/01 11:57] artoo Magneto: dont forget forced permission change
  • [2009/09/01 11:57] Sebastean Steamweaver: People are determined when it comes to resizing, because it's such a core operation.
  • [2009/09/01 11:57] Stickman Ingmann: Simon, are you implying the function wouldn't have a script delay?
  • [2009/09/01 11:57] Simon Linden: I'd definitely like to add the feature ... just paranoid about how it'll get abused :)
  • [2009/09/01 11:57] Sebastean Steamweaver: They aren't deterred by the extra work.
  • [2009/09/01 11:57] xstorm Radek: the last copybot i seen did copy over 40 prims at one time
  • [2009/09/01 11:57] Random Person: 3 and a half thousand is for trademarking alone, lol
  • [2009/09/01 11:57] Arawn Spitteler: llScaleBoundingBox?
  • [2009/09/01 11:57] lonetorus Habilis: random, i think you are thinking of the rezzable software? http://dusanwriter.com/index.php/2009/07/20/rezzable-readies-release-of-full-sim-copybot/
  • [2009/09/01 11:57] Brash MK Uppercut Toasty: activated.
  • [2009/09/01 11:57] Sebastean Steamweaver: Stick, the "vanilla" llSetScale has no delay.
  • [2009/09/01 11:57] Random Person: ah i see
  • [2009/09/01 11:58] Rex Cronon: i think imrightasrain might be selling such a thing. talking about sim cloner/copier
  • [2009/09/01 11:58] Stickman Ingmann: Yes, it doesn't. Does that mean it has the same physics issues, Simon?
  • [2009/09/01 11:58] Andrew Linden: Economic, I wonder how Emerald will be getting the assets now that I've closed the one known download hole (in 1.27.4)
  • [2009/09/01 11:58] xstorm Radek: and all they did was stand next to the items
  • [2009/09/01 11:58] lonetorus Habilis: random, i think after the initial public outcry, they will make it respect permissions
  • [2009/09/01 11:58] Economic Core: Andrew: It'll only export them if you have full perms
  • [2009/09/01 11:58] Andrew Linden: Perhaps there is a different hole? I dunno.
  • [2009/09/01 11:58] Economic Core: and does so via CAPS
  • [2009/09/01 11:58] Andrew Linden: Oh really? Hrm..
  • [2009/09/01 11:59] Simon Linden: yes, it would. It's somewhat well known - create a big pile of physics objects, add one thing at the top and change it's size repeatedly. It will definitely slow down a region
  • [2009/09/01 11:59] Simon Linden: err,'physical objects'
  • [2009/09/01 11:59] Random Person: wialso I was curious as to when they will apply the alpha texturing on avatar mesh support, since I also create avatars on occasion
  • [2009/09/01 11:59] xstorm Radek: i think the new copybot is taking the info it sees and it sent to it to see and makes a copy that way
  • [2009/09/01 11:59] Sebastean Steamweaver: Won't a linkset have the same effect, though?
  • [2009/09/01 11:59] Random Person: also*
  • [2009/09/01 11:59] Sebastean Steamweaver: It won't be creating any new problem.
  • [2009/09/01 11:59] Economic Core: ALPHA MESHES - DO WANT
  • [2009/09/01 11:59] Random Person: even though off topic, lol
  • [2009/09/01 11:59] Random Person: sorry
  • [2009/09/01 11:59] Latif Khalifa: making a full sim copybot is difficult... because of the interest list sim maintains, you'll have to move the avatar around the whole sim to get object updates for all... sim wil not send you object smaller than 0.5 unless you get withing 16m of it for example
  • [2009/09/01 11:59] Economic Core: I hate invisiprims :/
  • [2009/09/01 12:00] Andrew Linden: I don't know when that will be added Economic
  • [2009/09/01 12:00] Stickman Ingmann: I wasn't aware of that issue, thanks for informing me, Simon. I'll be careful with that.
  • [2009/09/01 12:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to Linden office hours
  • [2009/09/01 12:00] lonetorus Habilis: random, "as soon as its ready" ;) (still some UI stuff missing, but thats nyx's table)
  • [2009/09/01 12:00] Stickman Ingmann: Economic, everyone hates them. :(
  • [2009/09/01 12:00] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: See you Andrew. :o
  • [2009/09/01 12:00] Economic Core: Andrew: RenderAvatarInvisible
  • [2009/09/01 12:00] Andrew Linden: Yes, I have to run, sorry.
  • [2009/09/01 12:00] Economic Core: It just doesn't stick
  • [2009/09/01 12:00] artoo Magneto: byebye
  • [2009/09/01 12:00] Latif Khalifa: take care andrew
  • [2009/09/01 12:00] Stickman Ingmann: Economic, that's Nyx' territory. Viewer 2009 is the goal, I believe.
  • [2009/09/01 12:00] Economic Core: k.
  • [2009/09/01 12:00] Random Person: thanks Andrew, have a great afternoon
  • [2009/09/01 12:00] Simon Linden: Thanks all for coming, I also have to run
  • [2009/09/01 12:00] Rex Cronon: if u have a special viewer u can alredy use alpha thing:)
  • [2009/09/01 12:00] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: See you too, Simon.
  • [2009/09/01 12:00] Economic Core: I'll yell at him in AWG
  • [2009/09/01 12:00] Stickman Ingmann: Bye Simon, bye Linden! Thanks!
  • [2009/09/01 12:00] Glurp Gurbux: buh-bye
  • [2009/09/01 12:01] Simon Linden: Bye all
  • [2009/09/01 12:01] Sebastean Steamweaver: Later Simin, Andrew
  • [2009/09/01 12:01] Sebastean Steamweaver: simon*
  • [2009/09/01 12:01] Latif Khalifa: take care simon
  • [2009/09/01 12:01] Rex Cronon: tc andrew
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