Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2012-11-29

[2012/11/29 15:02]  Maestro Linden: let's get started
[2012/11/29 15:02]  Maestro Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group
[2012/11/29 15:02]  Maestro Linden: So, let's go over releases a bit
[2012/11/29 15:03]  Maestro Linden: This week was pretty 'exciting'
[2012/11/29 15:03]  Maestro Linden: The main channel got a maint-server that had been in RC for 2 weeks
[2012/11/29 15:03]  Maestro Linden: which mostly included bugfixes
[2012/11/29 15:03]  Maestro Linden: that went pretty smoothly
[2012/11/29 15:03]  Maestro Linden: However, on Wednesday we ran into some issues with the new code
[2012/11/29 15:04]  Maestro Linden: We'd planned to put new code in all 3 RCs,
[2012/11/29 15:04]  Maestro Linden: and we took care of BlueSteel and Magnum,
[2012/11/29 15:05]  Maestro Linden: but by the time we got to LeTigre, the grid was sick (unrelated to the new code), so Coyot aborted the LeTigre roll
[2012/11/29 15:05]  Maestro Linden: and then there were reports in the forums about offline IM emails from objects being broken;
[2012/11/29 15:06]  Maestro Linden: if an object sent you an IM and you were offline, the offline email would contain all the usual details *except* for the message
[2012/11/29 15:06]  Maestro Linden: this bug affected both Bluesteel and Magnum since they both shared the responsible change
[2012/11/29 15:06]  Rex Cronon: hello people
[2012/11/29 15:07]  Maestro Linden: Then, after digging into offline emails a bit more, we noticed that the 'To' field of offline emails would show the object owner's name instead of the recipient's name
[2012/11/29 15:07]  Motor Loon: damn, wouldnt it have been nice with a couple of weeks totally spamfree °͜°
[2012/11/29 15:07]  Sonic (sonicand.miles): ahh i think i did get something like that
[2012/11/29 15:07]  Maestro Linden: So it would be like "To: Motor Loon <sonicandmiles@gmail.com>"
[2012/11/29 15:07]  Maestro Linden: which was a little confusing :)
[2012/11/29 15:08]  Motor Loon: aah so Sonic has all my offline's eh? °͜°
[2012/11/29 15:08]  Maestro Linden: anyway, these bugs were kind of bad, but we weren't sure that they were worth the trauma and downtime of an emergency rollback
[2012/11/29 15:08]  Maestro Linden: heh, fortunately they went to the right person at least..
[2012/11/29 15:08]  Sonic (sonicand.miles): my email i normally get from zyngo was just blank last night...
[2012/11/29 15:08]  Maestro Linden: But then this morning, we became aware of a 3rd bug, from support
[2012/11/29 15:09]  Maestro Linden: /me nods, that was the first bug
[2012/11/29 15:09]  Maestro Linden: It turned out that deeding parcels to groups was failing
[2012/11/29 15:09]  Motor Loon: ouch... thats a bad one
[2012/11/29 15:09]  Maestro Linden: Yeah
[2012/11/29 15:09]  Maestro Linden: that was the main cause for the rollbacks this morning
[2012/11/29 15:10]  Motor Loon: Good choice
[2012/11/29 15:10]  Maestro Linden: So, now we're back to https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/#12.11.09.266804 on all 4 channels
[2012/11/29 15:10]  Maestro Linden: Kelly was pretty quick with bugfixes for those 3 issues, but they're still in testing. We hope we can try again next week
[2012/11/29 15:11]  Maestro Linden: Kelly or other devs: is there anything else you'd like to add?
[2012/11/29 15:11]  Andrew Linden: I have nothing to add to that story. It is news to me.
[2012/11/29 15:11]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): That covers it pretty well.
[2012/11/29 15:12]  Maestro Linden: Alright.
[2012/11/29 15:12]  Simon Linden: Nothing from me
[2012/11/29 15:12]  Maestro Linden: Okay, cool.
[2012/11/29 15:12]  Maestro Linden: So.. Morris is on that new interest list code
[2012/11/29 15:13]  Theresa Tennyson: Is Ahern still on it?
[2012/11/29 15:13]  Maestro Linden: Andrew fixed the one bug we saw a few weeks ago with other avatars' attachments appearing on your screen
[2012/11/29 15:13]  Jonathan Yap: From Ahern I cannot see or walk into Morris
[2012/11/29 15:13]  Andrew Linden: Yes, Ahern is also on it.
[2012/11/29 15:13]  Maestro Linden: yes
[2012/11/29 15:13]  Theresa Tennyson: What Jonathan said.
[2012/11/29 15:13]  Maestro Linden: I believe the Morris<>Ahern visibility issue is an old bug, SVC-7xxx (don't have the number on hand right now)
[2012/11/29 15:14]  Maestro Linden: Morris was offline for a while, so Ahern doesn't trust it
[2012/11/29 15:14]  Motor Loon: Morris can be a sneaky bastard
[2012/11/29 15:14]  Andrew Linden: As far as I know there are no known bugs in this current version of the intrestlist work, but QA is not done testing it.
[2012/11/29 15:14]  Simon Linden: brb
[2012/11/29 15:14]  Maestro Linden: The interest list changes affect when objects appear in your view
[2012/11/29 15:14]  NeoBokrug Elytis: Neighboring regons sometimes "flicker" if you're near it's edge. is that related to the interest list?
[2012/11/29 15:15]  Maestro Linden: Is it that the whole region (terrain and all) disappears, NeoBokrug?
[2012/11/29 15:15]  NeoBokrug Elytis: Also crossing into a region, sometimes "warps" the other regions content to the region you're on, just for a second before it corrects itself. Is it a veiwer or interest list issue?
[2012/11/29 15:15]  NeoBokrug Elytis: Yes
[2012/11/29 15:15]  Andrew Linden: Yes perhaps NeoBokrug. However there are a couple bugs there that look similar.
[2012/11/29 15:15]  Maestro Linden: Ah that's a viewer bug, NeoBokrug. I believe it's fixed in a development viewer
[2012/11/29 15:16]  Andrew Linden: The "region resets 50 seconds after you leave it" bug should be fixed in this simulator version.
[2012/11/29 15:16]  NeoBokrug Elytis: Cool. :)
[2012/11/29 15:16]  Maestro Linden: Yes, that 'reset' issue was about the viewer being disconnected from the neighboring region, for a second
[2012/11/29 15:16]  Andrew Linden: But there is a viewer bug that makes "caheable" objects vanish in the region you just left....
[2012/11/29 15:16]  Maestro Linden: and cacheable ones would be .. unscripted and nonphysical
[2012/11/29 15:17]  Andrew Linden: hrm... at least I thought it was a viewer bug, but I just realized that might have been related to the bug I just recently fixed. I'll have to test that again.
[2012/11/29 15:17]  NeoBokrug Elytis: Yeah, usually it's just structures.
[2012/11/29 15:17]  NeoBokrug Elytis: Another question about the interest list...
[2012/11/29 15:18]  Maestro Linden: Jonathan: was the trampoline making you dizzy? :P
[2012/11/29 15:18]  NeoBokrug Elytis: I've noticed that if a linksets child prims make updates to position or textures out of the view of the user, then you look back after a while, the updates aren't always correctly updated.
[2012/11/29 15:18]  Motor Loon: it was spammy maestro °͜°
[2012/11/29 15:18]  Jonathan Yap: Not dizzy, someone was ussing it and the spam messages in chat where too much
[2012/11/29 15:19]  Andrew Linden: Right NeoBokrug, that is new to this intrestlist version
[2012/11/29 15:19]  Motor Loon: just whispers but still
[2012/11/29 15:19]  Sonic (sonicand.miles): XD
[2012/11/29 15:19]  Andrew Linden: however, we've reduced the time for those updates to show up
[2012/11/29 15:19]  NeoBokrug Elytis: Cool thanks. I just wanted to see if you were aware of the issue.
[2012/11/29 15:19]  Andrew Linden: so it should be much less noticable
[2012/11/29 15:19]  Sonic (sonicand.miles): i was getting exercise lol
[2012/11/29 15:19]  Maestro Linden: hm, there's no reason for it to chat, what was it saying?
[2012/11/29 15:19]  Jonathan Yap: [02:59 PM] Superjump whispers: SonicAnd Miles says lookout below :) lol
[2012/11/29 15:19]  Andrew Linden: what is happening is that if the objects are not in view, the simulator now may delay sending the update packets
[2012/11/29 15:19]  Rex Cronon: loose weight:)
[2012/11/29 15:20]  Sonic (sonicand.miles): whispers: SonicAnd Miles says lookout below :) lol
[2012/11/29 15:20]  Maestro Linden: Ah lame. I'll see if I can silence it later.
[2012/11/29 15:20]  Andrew Linden: but if you suddenly turn so that the objects are in view, they'll be at their old position
[2012/11/29 15:20]  NeoBokrug Elytis: All the better for the simulator traffic. :)
[2012/11/29 15:20]  Sonic (sonicand.miles): it said that every time i jumped on it
[2012/11/29 15:20]  Andrew Linden: but should update in about 1 seconds
[2012/11/29 15:20]  Andrew Linden: er... 1 second
[2012/11/29 15:20]  Andrew Linden: it used to be up to 5 seconds
[2012/11/29 15:21]  NeoBokrug Elytis: Thanks for the heads up. :)
[2012/11/29 15:21]  Andrew Linden: the period is adjustible, but we get more performance gain by keeping it larger than only a few simulator frames
[2012/11/29 15:21]  Andrew Linden: so it is currently sitting at 1 second so we can see how good/bad it works
[2012/11/29 15:21]  NeoBokrug Elytis: My friend has something with prim blinkey eyes. Sometimes one or both are closed.
[2012/11/29 15:21]  Jenna Felton: the less viewrs are looking the more intensive updates cn be
[2012/11/29 15:22]  Motor Loon: you think this might solve issues with mesh objects occasionally going invisible on simcrossing until rightclicked?
[2012/11/29 15:22]  Andrew Linden: Motor, the sim-crossing stuff might or might not be fixed.
[2012/11/29 15:22]  Motor Loon: ok, well - time will tell then °͜°
[2012/11/29 15:23]  Andrew Linden: As I mentioned, I did fix one bug there, but it appeared to me that there was another bug happening
[2012/11/29 15:23]  Maestro Linden: I would suspect that the mesh issue might be a viewer bug
[2012/11/29 15:23]  Andrew Linden: but Caleb Linden claims that the bug I was noticing is fixed in some up and coming viewer
[2012/11/29 15:23]  Andrew Linden: I have yet to verify that.
[2012/11/29 15:23]  Maestro Linden: Yeah, that one about 'jumping into other regions' is the same issue
[2012/11/29 15:24]  Maestro Linden: Did any of you get a chance to try the new llGetObjectDetails() flags in RC before we rolled back?
[2012/11/29 15:24]  Andrew Linden: I think someone mentioned it already, but one way you can tell when you're on the new interestlist code is that ALL of the terrain for the region will show up on the minimap
[2012/11/29 15:24]  Andrew Linden: instead of just that part of the terrain that has been in view of the camera
[2012/11/29 15:24]  Andrew Linden: I did that so that I didn't have to scan for newly visible land patches constantly
[2012/11/29 15:25]  Andrew Linden: the land data isn't actually all that many bytes
[2012/11/29 15:25]  Jonathan Yap: All the attachments Rex is wearing just appeared when I rotated my view. He had been standing behing me for 10 minutes or so and I was wondering why his body looked so funny
[2012/11/29 15:25]  Maestro Linden: Cool. The minimap does look better.
[2012/11/29 15:25]  Andrew Linden: so it is better to just send it all and stop checking for it.
[2012/11/29 15:25]  NeoBokrug Elytis: I think all the terrain loading is nice. :)
[2012/11/29 15:25]  Andrew Linden: Also... when you login now very high sky boxes will not show up on the minimap
[2012/11/29 15:25]  Andrew Linden: because they are not sent until you get closer
[2012/11/29 15:25]  Jonathan Yap: Andrew, you might want to check to see what happens when someone walks into view
[2012/11/29 15:25]  Andrew Linden: that is, I added some Z-culling to the interestlist
[2012/11/29 15:25]  Rex Cronon: if i am out of sight i am also out of mind(i mean memory) :)
[2012/11/29 15:26]  Sonic (sonicand.miles): very cool! :)
[2012/11/29 15:26]  Andrew Linden: but because of how the system works, we still send some high/low objects that are outside of your draw distance
[2012/11/29 15:26]  Jonathan Yap: Rex, your odd head was in my view for the last 10 minutes, now it is normal
[2012/11/29 15:26]  Andrew Linden: basically we'll send objects that are within 2 * draw_distance
[2012/11/29 15:26]  Rex Cronon: weird
[2012/11/29 15:27]  Rex Cronon: shouldn't attachement be excluded from the interest list?
[2012/11/29 15:27]  Rex Cronon: attachments*
[2012/11/29 15:27]  Andrew Linden: Rex, what do you mean? Why would attachments be excluded?
[2012/11/29 15:27]  Andrew Linden: The interestlist is figuring out what is in view, and attachments are sometimes in view.
[2012/11/29 15:27]  Rex Cronon: is very weird to for others to see only my head and than to suddenly what i wear start to popup
[2012/11/29 15:28]  Andrew Linden: Hrm...
[2012/11/29 15:28]  Rex Cronon: when i look at at avatar i want to see all the attachments at the same time
[2012/11/29 15:28]  Jonathan Yap: Andrew, Rex walked into my view from behind and I saw none of his attachments until I rotated my avatar, then they all appeared at once
[2012/11/29 15:28]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): will small be sent to the viewer as well if they are far away, but within draw distance?
[2012/11/29 15:28]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): small prims*
[2012/11/29 15:29]  Andrew Linden: Ok that sounds like a bug Jonathan and Rex.
[2012/11/29 15:29]  Rex Cronon: maybe there should be 2 interest lists. one for regular prims, and one for attachments
[2012/11/29 15:29]  Andrew Linden: TankMaster, we still have different distance thresholds for various sizes of objects
[2012/11/29 15:29]  Andrew Linden: so you have to get closer to small objects in order to see them
[2012/11/29 15:29]  Jenna Felton: What vew is actually used, the camera view or avatar view?
[2012/11/29 15:30]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): thats a pain trying to find some things
[2012/11/29 15:30]  Andrew Linden: Jenna, the new interestlist now follows the camera almost exclusively
[2012/11/29 15:30]  Rex Cronon: if my attachemnts r small enough the won't be seen if i am too far
[2012/11/29 15:30]  Jenna Felton: ok
[2012/11/29 15:30]  Jonathan Yap: tank, if the object has a script or sound etc turn on beacons
[2012/11/29 15:30]  Andrew Linden: the one exception is that you can't move your camera arbitrarily far from your avatar
[2012/11/29 15:30]  Rex Cronon: they won't*
[2012/11/29 15:30]  Jenna Felton: than must be no problem with looking and not seeing all
[2012/11/29 15:30]  Andrew Linden: the server will clamp your server-side camera location to the surface of a 128 meter sphere about your avatar
[2012/11/29 15:30]  Jenna Felton: i see
[2012/11/29 15:31]  Maestro Linden: Is that the same 'camera constraint' distance that you usually have?
[2012/11/29 15:31]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): can you clarify what you mean by not moving the camera far away?
[2012/11/29 15:31]  Jenna Felton: my draw distance is 96m :)
[2012/11/29 15:31]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Andrew, so that is a change from how it is now?
[2012/11/29 15:31]  Andrew Linden: no Maestro, this is some arbitrary server-side limitation
[2012/11/29 15:31]  Homeless Resident (homeless): Will we be no longer able cam across a sim?
[2012/11/29 15:31]  Homeless Resident (homeless): *be able to
[2012/11/29 15:32]  Jenna Felton: sounds so
[2012/11/29 15:32]  Andrew Linden: Nalates, the old intrestlist code would actually do its culling/sending based on your *avatar* location (most of the time)
[2012/11/29 15:32]  Andrew Linden: and would sometimes user camera location
[2012/11/29 15:32]  Lucia Nightfire: As long as I can have my cam hang outside a region to view half of it without all teh prims disappearing, heh.
[2012/11/29 15:32]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): several third party viewer do not limit the distance the camera cam be away from the avatar if "advanced - > disable camera constraints" is checked
[2012/11/29 15:33]  Andrew Linden: which meant that when you moved your camera far away from your avatar small objects and higher details would sometimes not be sent to your viewer
[2012/11/29 15:33]  Andrew Linden: we not follow the camera location for culling/sending logic
[2012/11/29 15:33]  Rex Cronon: now those constraints r server side so won't matter what viewer u use
[2012/11/29 15:33]  Andrew Linden: but we just clamp its absolute distance from your avatar to 128m
[2012/11/29 15:33]  Andrew Linden: you can move your camera farther from your avatar viewer-side
[2012/11/29 15:33]  Maestro Linden: 'disable camera constraints' is in the official viewer as well
[2012/11/29 15:33]  Jonathan Yap: That 128 limit is new?
[2012/11/29 15:33]  Nal (nalates.urriah): I did some testing. I could move the camera 512+/- meters from the avatar. But only things within about 350+/- meters of the Avatar would render... except for the ground which rendered out to 512.
[2012/11/29 15:34]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): mastro, it still limited the distance
[2012/11/29 15:34]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): or at least it used to
[2012/11/29 15:34]  Andrew Linden: however the server will not send higher detail as you zoom in on small objects that are 256 meters away
[2012/11/29 15:34]  Nal (nalates.urriah): So, it sounds like that render areas is shrinking.
[2012/11/29 15:34]  Margithe: so one can at best see half a sim around? Thats pretty shitty for photography
[2012/11/29 15:34]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): in phoe/fs, I can zoom out to view the outside of a 65535 prim cube
[2012/11/29 15:34]  Andrew Linden: Actually, I think you'll be able to see better, even when moving the camera far away, in the new code
[2012/11/29 15:35]  Maestro Linden: I can move it 300m or so away, so the limit is pretty high.
[2012/11/29 15:35]  Theresa Tennyson: The draw distance would stay the same.
[2012/11/29 15:35]  Margithe: ok
[2012/11/29 15:35]  Rex Cronon: there r these huge spaceships(around 256m long). will we be still able to see them?
[2012/11/29 15:35]  Andrew Linden: Rex, that is a good question
[2012/11/29 15:35]  Andrew Linden: we'll have to test them
[2012/11/29 15:36]  Maestro Linden: This parcel does allow build...
[2012/11/29 15:36]  Jenna Felton: can the distance culing become a setting to change in debug console by the estate manager?
[2012/11/29 15:36]  Andrew Linden: it may be that they won't show up until you get within some threshold to their root prim
[2012/11/29 15:36]  Rex Cronon: and they r made of multiple linked sets. oh, there r robots too
[2012/11/29 15:36]  Andrew Linden: do those 256m ships work well in the old interestlist code?
[2012/11/29 15:36]  Andrew Linden: are they single linked objects? or do they come in several linked parts?
[2012/11/29 15:36]  Jonathan Yap: Rex, do you have a LM for one?
[2012/11/29 15:36]  Motor Loon: You can see it clearly if you set your DD to like very low (64m) when cam over to the next sim... when close to object there they'll actualyl rez now
[2012/11/29 15:36]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): seems like this is something better shown first hand to visualize the difference
[2012/11/29 15:36]  Rex Cronon: i don't own such a ship. i believe they r available on MP
[2012/11/29 15:37]  Lucia Nightfire: sounds like Kirby's ships, heh
[2012/11/29 15:37]  Andrew Linden: Jenna, no the server-side interestlist parameters are not controlable by estate managers.
[2012/11/29 15:38]  Jenna Felton: ok, than not :)
[2012/11/29 15:38]  Theresa Tennyson: I can see and select things two sims over from here.
[2012/11/29 15:38]  Andrew Linden: Theresa, some of our neighbor regions are running the old interestlist code
[2012/11/29 15:39]  Andrew Linden: the region to the East is one
[2012/11/29 15:39]  Rex Cronon: in the old interest list code i could see them quite well from the ground if the camera draw distance was set to around 512m
[2012/11/29 15:39]  Lucia Nightfire: next week maybe get a 3x3 grid of sims running it for the pile on, lol
[2012/11/29 15:39]  Motor Loon: it seems super cool to me - really prefer it like this relative to camera rather than avatar
[2012/11/29 15:39]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): is this region running the new interest code?
[2012/11/29 15:39]  Andrew Linden: Yeah, my hope is to get this work into the RC queue (up to bat for RC) next week.
[2012/11/29 15:39]  Andrew Linden: /me crosses fingers.
[2012/11/29 15:39]  NeoBokrug Elytis: Yeah, way better for machinima.
[2012/11/29 15:40]  Motor Loon: what neo said
[2012/11/29 15:40]  Andrew Linden: Morris and Ahern are running the new interstlist.
[2012/11/29 15:40]  Andrew Linden: The main motivation for this work was to see if we could improve performance.
[2012/11/29 15:40]  Rex Cronon: could we select either the camera pos or ave pos as the center used by the interest list?
[2012/11/29 15:40]  Andrew Linden: There are some performance gains for crowds of avatars and piles of moving objects
[2012/11/29 15:41]  Andrew Linden: however the gains are relatively small for most cases.
[2012/11/29 15:41]  NeoBokrug Elytis: I think it is, the viewer seems happier with less to download until you need it.
[2012/11/29 15:41]  NeoBokrug Elytis: Instead of a connection flood of grabbing textures.
[2012/11/29 15:41]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): maybe it might be helpful to have 2 region with a fair amount of stuff in them, but them being a copy prim wise of each other, and see how they differ
[2012/11/29 15:42]  Andrew Linden: I think we're currently seeing a 30% improvement (in the time spent in "Agents" in the stats) for the case of about 30 avatars running around in a region with 12k prims.
[2012/11/29 15:42]  Andrew Linden: Yeah TankMaster, we were running some tests like that.
[2012/11/29 15:42]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): ok
[2012/11/29 15:42]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): 3.3fps very slow here. it is hard for me to type chat..
[2012/11/29 15:42]  Rex Cronon: btw. there r these griefing objects of deformed prims/sculpties in link sets of 256 that when u click on them usually your viewer crashes. how will the interest list affect them?
[2012/11/29 15:42]  Theresa Tennyson: So now the maximum distance you can see from your avatar will be your draw distance + 128?
[2012/11/29 15:42]  Andrew Linden: NeoBokrug, depending on the content... the new interestlist probably pulls a little bit more textures in a very texture-heavy region
[2012/11/29 15:43]  Andrew Linden: at least that is the case for the one region we were testing
[2012/11/29 15:43]  Motor Loon: err... suddenly my viewer shows me at <0,0,1>
[2012/11/29 15:43]  Motor Loon: thats odd
[2012/11/29 15:43]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): given how some TPVs differ (like larger draw distances, and more freedom of moving the camera, may be interesting to see the reslts there
[2012/11/29 15:43]  Andrew Linden: the reason is that the new code uses a more correct "approximate size" of object when figuring out if it is big enough to be seen or not
[2012/11/29 15:43]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): results
[2012/11/29 15:44]  Rex Cronon: u will no longer be able to look inside somebodys hose from the next sim:)
[2012/11/29 15:44]  Andrew Linden: so that means linked objects are now evaluated for total size more correctly
[2012/11/29 15:44]  Rex Cronon: house*
[2012/11/29 15:44]  Andrew Linden: and some linked objects that would not be sent in the old code will be sent in the new
[2012/11/29 15:44]  Maestro Linden: Hah right. The old interest list goes by the maximum scale value of any of the prims in the linkset
[2012/11/29 15:44]  Andrew Linden: which is why I added code for more correct culling, so we could recover some performance by culling out stuff that is not visible
[2012/11/29 15:45]  Maestro Linden: so a cube of 8 50cm boxes would show at a different distance than the same thing made of a single 1m box
[2012/11/29 15:45]  Andrew Linden: Right. Try this in the old code:
[2012/11/29 15:45]  Maestro Linden: even though the overall size is the same
[2012/11/29 15:45]  Andrew Linden: make a pyramid out of 0.5^3 boxes
[2012/11/29 15:45]  Motor Loon: (do everybody still see my avatar on the treadmill?)
[2012/11/29 15:45]  Andrew Linden: and a similar pyramid where each level is its own big box
[2012/11/29 15:46]  Rex Cronon: yes loon
[2012/11/29 15:46]  Margithe: (on treadmil, yes?)
[2012/11/29 15:46]  Andrew Linden: put the two pyramids side by side and then see which one shows up first when walking toward them
[2012/11/29 15:46]  WhiteRabbit0: (Yeah you're running motor)lol
[2012/11/29 15:46]  Marigold Devin: (Yes I see you Motor on the treadmill)
[2012/11/29 15:46]  Andrew Linden: the big-box pyramid should show up first in the old code
[2012/11/29 15:46]  Motor Loon: wierd... viewer thinks i'm at <0,0,1> and put me there on my screen
[2012/11/29 15:46]  Andrew Linden: whereas they should both appear at about the same time in the new code
[2012/11/29 15:46]  Rex Cronon: unsit
[2012/11/29 15:46]  Andrew Linden: there is some slop to avoid
[2012/11/29 15:46]  Homeless Resident (homeless): I just cammed a long distance out, hit (esc) to reset and now my cam is at (0,0,0) and I can't see anything
[2012/11/29 15:47]  Motor Loon: I had to cam back to meeting - but could still hear ya'all
[2012/11/29 15:47]  Simon Linden: /me puts that on the "Don't do it" list
[2012/11/29 15:47]  Andrew Linden: so for best results stack the pyramids so one is directly above the other
[2012/11/29 15:47]  Andrew Linden: both visible, but differ only in Z-component
[2012/11/29 15:47]  Motor Loon: oh sounds like Homeless has the same going on
[2012/11/29 15:47]  Motor Loon: bug?
[2012/11/29 15:47]  Andrew Linden: Hrm...
[2012/11/29 15:47]  Maestro Linden: are you all on TPVs with that unlimited camera distance?
[2012/11/29 15:47]  Motor Loon: yes
[2012/11/29 15:47]  Rex Cronon: so if u zoom to far out, your camera goes to 0,0,0?
[2012/11/29 15:48]  Lucia Nightfire: crazy kids with their fangled tpvs these days
[2012/11/29 15:48]  Homeless Resident (homeless): I'm on LL 3.3 project viewer for http:
[2012/11/29 15:48]  Lucia Nightfire: I'm one of them too, heh
[2012/11/29 15:48]  Marigold Devin: Haha Firestorm unlimited
[2012/11/29 15:48]  Andrew Linden: Ok, sounds like a bug. I'll have to test very far cam distances.
[2012/11/29 15:48]  Motor Loon: Im on Exodus beta today, zooming around before didnt do anything... it happened suddenly while my cam was back here at the meeting
[2012/11/29 15:48]  Marigold Devin: But I can cam forever and am ok
[2012/11/29 15:48]  Homeless Resident (homeless): version 3.3.3
[2012/11/29 15:48]  Maestro Linden: hm I can't seem to do that on Second Life 3.4.2 (267137) Nov 19 2012 13:33:47 (Second Life Release); even though I have camera constraints off and I alt-cammed to change my focal point a few times, so I'm way off-sim
[2012/11/29 15:48]  NeoBokrug Elytis: You're both sitting on an object -- perhaps related
[2012/11/29 15:49]  Rex Cronon: try unsitting
[2012/11/29 15:49]  Nal (nalates.urriah): I;m in Exodus and can't replicate that...
[2012/11/29 15:49]  Motor Loon: my "stand" button is gone
[2012/11/29 15:49]  Homeless Resident (homeless): my stand button is gone too
[2012/11/29 15:49]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): I camed out as high as I could and still see prims, so about 3k away, and pressed exc, it worked as expected in resetting the camera view
[2012/11/29 15:49]  Marigold Devin: Have you gone into mouselook, Motor/Homeless?
[2012/11/29 15:49]  Rex Cronon: select something else to sit on
[2012/11/29 15:49]  Theresa Tennyson: I don't think I"m getting avatar impostors and I should be in this group.
[2012/11/29 15:49]  Marigold Devin: And does it say 0,0,0 at top of screen?
[2012/11/29 15:49]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): for me, no
[2012/11/29 15:49]  Marigold Devin: whup, motor gone
[2012/11/29 15:50]  Motor Loon: "secondlife://Aditi/secondlife/Morris/0/0/1"
[2012/11/29 15:50]  Motor Loon: I just clicked the boxing bag now
[2012/11/29 15:50]  Simon Linden: I can see you, Motor
[2012/11/29 15:50]  Homeless Resident (homeless): mouse look gives me a view of the sea, goes back to black when I leave
[2012/11/29 15:50]  Motor Loon: well, super wierd... nothing I've seen before atleast
[2012/11/29 15:51]  Homeless Resident (homeless): I'm at (0,0,0)
[2012/11/29 15:51]  Lucia Nightfire: does your rotate left or right arrow bring your cam back, homeless?
[2012/11/29 15:51]  Rex Cronon: btw when i log in my camera i think is at 0,0,0
[2012/11/29 15:51]  Andrew Linden: It might be a viewer bug. The simulator pretty much honors wherever the viewer claims its camera is located
[2012/11/29 15:51]  Andrew Linden: except for that 128 meter clamp I mentioned.
[2012/11/29 15:51]  Homeless Resident (homeless): L R arrow roates the cam a little but gets stuck
[2012/11/29 15:51]  Lucia Nightfire: does not broadcasting a lookat affect thigns?
[2012/11/29 15:51]  Jonathan Yap: Is that 128m clamp a new change?
[2012/11/29 15:51]  Andrew Linden: Hrm... there was a server bug that would do that on login Rex, but I thought I had fixed it.
[2012/11/29 15:52]  Rex Cronon: i crashed after the first 5 minutes, when returning that is when it happened
[2012/11/29 15:52]  Andrew Linden: Jonathan, the 128 clamp is new however... the old interstlist is using your avatar for its culling
[2012/11/29 15:52]  Andrew Linden: which means the old code would clamp the server-side camera to 0m from your avatar
[2012/11/29 15:52]  Duckie Dickins: I'm guessing discussion about the issues of the beta grid aren't going to be covered today? i had read that there was discussion about it on tuesday and that more would be discussed today about it but apparently we're going to be out of time for that.....
[2012/11/29 15:53]  Andrew Linden: the new code now follows the camera location for interestlist computations
[2012/11/29 15:53]  NeoBokrug Elytis: Just gunna throw this out there, get to it whenever: I've run into a new issue (to me) and I was wondering if anyone here had input about a pre-existing JIRA. The issue is a script seems to halt on a region until a restart. Once the restart happens it unlocks itself and tries to catch up to the (I guess) queued events. My object is an HTTP server, so the things contacting it get the usual "things are just fine" reply, but instead of processing the HTTP queue, it's just stalled. The restart unsticks it, and it processes it's queue. It's happened about three times in the past month, all on rolling restart days. Another unrelated question is, what are the odds the JIRA issues will be at least visible to people logged into the JIRA? I feel very in the dark and out of touch with issues that may be hampering the things I'm working on.
[2012/11/29 15:53]  Andrew Linden: but does clamp to 128 meters from your avatar ... for level-of-detail and frustum-collision checks
[2012/11/29 15:54]  Homeless Resident (homeless): Hmmm I cammed up and cae see the meeting, but my av is stck at 0,0,0. There's noone lifting the weights!
[2012/11/29 15:54]  Homeless Resident (homeless): *can
[2012/11/29 15:55]  Simon Linden: I see your AV on the bench, fwiw
[2012/11/29 15:55]  Jonathan Yap: Andrew, before you log out check your IM
[2012/11/29 15:55]  Motor Loon: I see Homeless too, but not myself lol
[2012/11/29 15:56]  Andrew Linden: Duckie, you're talking about the login problems on aditi, right? Which were caused by some full disks on some aditi servers, right?
[2012/11/29 15:56]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): neobokrug: what events does your script handle?
[2012/11/29 15:56]  Andrew Linden: I forgot to ask around for more info about that.
[2012/11/29 15:56]  NeoBokrug Elytis: Lemme check!
[2012/11/29 15:56]  Andrew Linden: But one of the persons I would have approached is Maestro. Perhaps he has an update.
[2012/11/29 15:56]  Duckie Dickins: Yeah and about possible solutions like culling the number of people that have assets loaded
[2012/11/29 15:57]  Motor Loon: I don't assume there's anything new about the havok memory allocation / navmesh memory leak we talked about yesterday Mæstro?
[2012/11/29 15:57]  Maestro Linden: Yes, another dev is working on a script to help the aditi inventory situtaiton.
[2012/11/29 15:57]  Rex Cronon: i am at over 512 m out(i mean my camera) and have no problems. using v1.23.5
[2012/11/29 15:57]  Maestro Linden: Yes there is news about that, Motor
[2012/11/29 15:57]  Motor Loon: oooh
[2012/11/29 15:57]  Motor Loon: do tell
[2012/11/29 15:57]  Maestro Linden: Background: We've been investigating issues on certain regions which suffer from physics memory bloat. In certain cases, if the sim gets above a certain level (~230MB for homesteads, ~920MB for full regions), then all object rezzing fails.
[2012/11/29 15:57]  NeoBokrug Elytis: state_entry, http_response, listen, http_request, and changed
[2012/11/29 15:58]  Maestro Linden: Obviously, this is a problem. The only 'fix' in most cases is to restart the region.
[2012/11/29 15:58]  Avi Savira: is that related to PATHBUG-183, Maestro
[2012/11/29 15:58]  Andrew Linden: Motor, I heard Simon say today that he had found and fixed a havok memory leak.
[2012/11/29 15:58]  Maestro Linden: The news is that Simon located a source of memory leakage, which may address the problem fully.
[2012/11/29 15:58]  Simon Linden: Right, I fixed it yesterday
[2012/11/29 15:59]  Fenix Eldritch: \o/
[2012/11/29 15:59]  Motor Loon: yay way 2 go Simon man!
[2012/11/29 15:59]  Maestro Linden: Actually, PATHBUG-183 is related to the interest list changes from Andrew, Avi
[2012/11/29 15:59]  Avi Savira: ok, the Jira says "A fix for this is currently on Aditi.", but what sim is it fixed in??
[2012/11/29 15:59]  Maestro Linden: fixed in this sim, DRTSIM-176
[2012/11/29 15:59]  Crissi Yoshikawa: I tested PATHBUG-183, (offscreen physical object flying across your view window), that was reported fixed last meeting in Ahern and its still doing it, I see no change unfortunately, its not fixed
[2012/11/29 16:00]  Maestro Linden: Which objects are moving across your screen?
[2012/11/29 16:00]  Andrew Linden: Right, I think I've drastically reduced the number of "ghosts flying off out of the sim" in the new interestlist code.
[2012/11/29 16:00]  Simon Linden: I'm in the midst of hacking a special test mode for a region ... I'm going to make it continuously re-bake the navmesh and terrain data. I'll let that run overnight and see what happens :)
[2012/11/29 16:00]  Crissi Yoshikawa: it sometimes looks better but not much
[2012/11/29 16:00]  WhiteRabbit0: wait.. the dreaded memory leak that
[2012/11/29 16:00]  Maestro Linden: That's too bad
[2012/11/29 16:00]  WhiteRabbit0: was driving everyone bonkers..
[2012/11/29 16:01]  WhiteRabbit0: Simon nabbed it?
[2012/11/29 16:01]  Crissi Yoshikawa: There is a test set up in Ahern's lagoon where the problem can be seen if you look away from the moving objects, you'll see them fly on screen and across the view window getting no updates.
[2012/11/29 16:01]  WhiteRabbit0: \o/
[2012/11/29 16:01]  Simon Linden: I'm not going to claim victory quite yet ... this is like that point where you hit the zombie hard, but you have to see if it comes back again
[2012/11/29 16:01]  WhiteRabbit0: lol
[2012/11/29 16:01]  Crissi Yoshikawa: velocity interpolate seems to be doing it
[2012/11/29 16:01]  Motor Loon: hehe
[2012/11/29 16:01]  Andrew Linden: Ok, I'll try to find that lagoon and check it outl.
[2012/11/29 16:02]  Crissi Yoshikawa: thanks
[2012/11/29 16:02]  Crissi Yoshikawa: they always start doing ot off screen
[2012/11/29 16:02]  Crissi Yoshikawa: if you keep them all on screen they never do it
[2012/11/29 16:02]  Maestro Linden: Yeah, I wouldn't count our meeroos before they've hatched, regarding the memory leak. But there is hope on the horizon..
[2012/11/29 16:03]  WhiteRabbit0: /me jumps for joy
[2012/11/29 16:03]  Motor Loon: Any news is good news in this matter °͜°
[2012/11/29 16:03]  Andrew Linden: Crissi, are the objects relatively nearby when you're looking or not looking at them? (where "neargby" = within about half your draw distance)
[2012/11/29 16:03]  Crissi Yoshikawa: yes
[2012/11/29 16:03]  Crissi Yoshikawa: just off screen
[2012/11/29 16:03]  Motor Loon: would this fix be something that would require a rollout of a havok 2012.2 or is it "regular servercode"
[2012/11/29 16:03]  Andrew Linden: Or are they near the end of your draw distance?
[2012/11/29 16:03]  Crissi Yoshikawa: no they're close by
[2012/11/29 16:03]  Andrew Linden: Ok thanks.
[2012/11/29 16:04]  Crissi Yoshikawa: ty Andrew
[2012/11/29 16:04]  Simon Linden: I need to run -- thanks everyone for coming today, I'll see you next time
[2012/11/29 16:04]  Maestro Linden: I don't think it's tied to any Havok update, Motor.
[2012/11/29 16:04]  Avi Savira: they can be within 10 or 20m, and they still fly if off screen
[2012/11/29 16:04]  Motor Loon: okies
[2012/11/29 16:04]  Rex Cronon: tc simon
[2012/11/29 16:05]  Maestro Linden: Which is good because I'm not sure that 2012.2 has been released :)
[2012/11/29 16:05]  Andrew Linden: btw Crissi, do you know if you're suffering any packet loss when looking at that pile of objects?
[2012/11/29 16:05]  Maestro Linden: Alright, we're out of time
[2012/11/29 16:05]  Jonathan Yap: Thank you everyone
[2012/11/29 16:05]  Maestro Linden: Thanks for coming, everybody!
[2012/11/29 16:05]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you, Lindens.
[2012/11/29 16:05]  Crissi Yoshikawa: Thanks
[2012/11/29 16:06]  Jonathan Yap: Maestro, return my prim after you have silenced that trampoline :)
[2012/11/29 16:06]  Lares Carter: Thanks for the meeting.
[2012/11/29 16:06]  Marigold Devin: Thank you, it's been interesting again.
[2012/11/29 16:06]  Rex Cronon: tc all those leaving
[2012/11/29 16:06]  WhiteRabbit0: /me nods.
[2012/11/29 16:06]  Sonic (sonicand.miles): cya guys :)