Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2013-08-15
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[2013/08/15 15:01] Nyx Linden: that is, in fact, not accurate [2013/08/15 15:02] Lucia Nightfire: Nyx is an artist, not a lawyer, heh [2013/08/15 15:02] Motor Loon: I didnt spot any major user affecting changes really... mostly a bit of wording here and there, legal mumble jumble... [2013/08/15 15:02] Caleb Linden: hello guys [2013/08/15 15:03] Rex Cronon: right. u guys just hired "Tos Linden":) [2013/08/15 15:03] Lucia Nightfire: I wonder if their stance on copybotting has changed any, heh [2013/08/15 15:03] Kennylex Luckless: All Lindens shall fix the internet, save the lol cats, make bugs and be funny. [2013/08/15 15:03] Rex Cronon: hi caleb [2013/08/15 15:03] Jenna Felton: hello Caleb [2013/08/15 15:03] Inara Breen: Dispute resolution has been overhauled, Motor. [2013/08/15 15:03] Lucia Nightfire: I haven't had a single turnaround since Jan 2011 with IP AR's [2013/08/15 15:03] Lucia Nightfire: over a thousand a year then 0 [2013/08/15 15:03] Lucia Nightfire: I'm sitting on 7000+ pics of 3000+ infringers since.... [2013/08/15 15:04] Lucia Nightfire: and it keeps mounting [2013/08/15 15:04] arton Rotaru: nice collection [2013/08/15 15:04] Rex Cronon: those that r late, can't make, or can't stay. u can follow chat live here: http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl%3ARex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1 [2013/08/15 15:05] Caleb Linden: Alrighty, i'll be the MC for today. Simon is out this afternoon. [2013/08/15 15:05] Motor Loon: does that mean you'll rap the meeting MC Caleb? [2013/08/15 15:05] Caleb Linden: sounds legit [2013/08/15 15:05] arton Rotaru: clap hands for caleb [2013/08/15 15:05] Caleb Linden: and i can't quit [2013/08/15 15:06] Lucia Nightfire: alwhite then, lol [2013/08/15 15:06] Caleb Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group [2013/08/15 15:06] Caleb Linden: let's see [2013/08/15 15:06] Caleb Linden: This week, we had all three RC slots filled with different projects. [2013/08/15 15:07] Caleb Linden: BlueSteel is basically the same project from last week. Except it contains the now notorious grey box issue. [2013/08/15 15:08] Motor Loon: I sure got a lot of "my product is broken" because of that one °͜° [2013/08/15 15:08] Rex Cronon: the hitchhiking box:) [2013/08/15 15:08] Caleb Linden: oh yeah [2013/08/15 15:08] Caleb Linden: and many thanks to Whirly to help me out debug that one [2013/08/15 15:08] Whirly Fizzle: :) [2013/08/15 15:09] Motor Loon: for Whirly girlie [2013/08/15 15:09] Motor Loon: ¸.•´¸.•*¨) ¸.•*¨) (¨*•.¸(¨*•.¸´•.¸ [2013/08/15 15:09] Motor Loon: -:¦:-.•:*¨¨*:•WooHoo!!•:*¨¨*:•.-:¦:- [2013/08/15 15:09] Motor Loon: ¸.•´¸.•*¨) ¸.•*¨) (¨*•.¸(¨*•.¸´•.¸ [2013/08/15 15:09] Lucia Nightfire: thanks to her I bothered to find two fun exploits out of it [2013/08/15 15:09] arton Rotaru: Whirly is topless :p [2013/08/15 15:09] Margithe: Cute :) [2013/08/15 15:10] Nal (nalates.urriah): No... I would say she has a pretty good size top... [2013/08/15 15:10] arton Rotaru: should we all undress ^^ [2013/08/15 15:10] Whirly Fizzle: Ekkkk. Is my hair not rezzed? My hair is my top :D [2013/08/15 15:10] Motor Loon: There's absolutely nothing wrong with topless girls [2013/08/15 15:10] Caleb Linden: Also this week we had a new project out on LeTigre. Apologies if this has caused confusion thinking it still contained the SSA buiild [2013/08/15 15:10] Nal (nalates.urriah): Yuor hair is rez'd for me. [2013/08/15 15:10] Caleb Linden: It was mainly clean up fixes and hopefully didn't create any new issues [2013/08/15 15:11] Duckie Dickins: so LeTigre isn't on the SSA build anymore? I better read the notes...I'm behind. [2013/08/15 15:11] Caleb Linden: Yeah [2013/08/15 15:11] Caleb Linden: We just had to make space for our upcoming maintenance releases [2013/08/15 15:11] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Any Idea when SSA rolls for real? [2013/08/15 15:12] Caleb Linden: I'm glad you asked, because with Magnum being the only SSA channel, Nyx is able to answer some questions. [2013/08/15 15:12] Nyx Linden: We announce the plan for what is getting promoted across the grid on Mondays, so stay tuned :) [2013/08/15 15:12] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Pffffft:-p [2013/08/15 15:12] Margithe: Were there no changes to interest lists? [2013/08/15 15:13] Nyx Linden: (seriously that decision has not been made, but the system is looking good :) ) [2013/08/15 15:13] Whirly Fizzle: Yay! So mayyyybe full rollout next week? [2013/08/15 15:13] Nyx Linden: don't know yet :) [2013/08/15 15:13] arton Rotaru: lets bet [2013/08/15 15:13] Lucia Nightfire: I'd bet no [2013/08/15 15:14] arton Rotaru: I bet yes [2013/08/15 15:14] Lucia Nightfire: you lose [2013/08/15 15:14] Lucia Nightfire: heh [2013/08/15 15:14] arton Rotaru: 100 L$ lucia? [2013/08/15 15:14] Lucia Nightfire: how about 1000 [2013/08/15 15:14] arton Rotaru: whatever [2013/08/15 15:14] Lucia Nightfire: how about 100000 [2013/08/15 15:14] Lucia Nightfire: I'll pay you Thur [2013/08/15 15:14] arton Rotaru: a million [2013/08/15 15:14] Lucia Nightfire: lol [2013/08/15 15:14] Rex Cronon: sorry to inform u but betting is not allowed in sl:) [2013/08/15 15:14] Lucia Nightfire: and on Aditi [2013/08/15 15:14] Duckie Dickins: send a few boxes of krispy kremes to the dev team....it'll get rolled out. *wink* [2013/08/15 15:14] arton Rotaru: (have to talk to nyx after the meeting) [2013/08/15 15:14] Jenna Felton: perhaps a kind of flash-roll for all versions at once, including every sim, and then roll back next day and see if there were problems last day [2013/08/15 15:14] Lucia Nightfire: heh [2013/08/15 15:15] arton Rotaru: ^^ [2013/08/15 15:15] Blake Burger: ADITI doesnt have real currency so..... :p [2013/08/15 15:15] Rex Cronon: ll will ban u for gambling:) [2013/08/15 15:15] Lucia Nightfire: someone caught on [2013/08/15 15:15] Caleb Linden: all monopoly money [2013/08/15 15:15] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today [2013/08/15 15:16] Jenna Felton: every currency is based on trust, probably even aditi lindens :) [2013/08/15 15:16] Lucia Nightfire: trust in that it won't affect you [2013/08/15 15:17] Rex Cronon: btw. how long does it take for inventory here to get updated once u change your pass? [2013/08/15 15:17] Jenna Felton: hello Baker [2013/08/15 15:18] Baker Linden: hello! [2013/08/15 15:18] Blake Burger: BAKER! Did u bring us cake :D [2013/08/15 15:18] Inara Breen: Hey, Baker! [2013/08/15 15:18] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Baker. [2013/08/15 15:18] Rex Cronon: hello baker [2013/08/15 15:18] Baker Linden: maybe, lemme check my inventory [2013/08/15 15:18] Blake Burger: hehehe [2013/08/15 15:18] Lucia Nightfire: he brought wings, but no dip [2013/08/15 15:18] Duckie Dickins: Margithe was asking about interest lists because she noticed a lot of texture reloading....even textures already rezzed in front of you suddenly going fuzzy and reloading. I experienced it once with a road texture but it was pretty quick for me, but it seems many people have been experiencing it and thought it might be tied to interest lists. [2013/08/15 15:18] Nal (nalates.urriah): Rex, updates can take 24 to 48 hours, usually less. [2013/08/15 15:18] Baker Linden: I am the dip :P [2013/08/15 15:19] arton Rotaru: yeah texture loading from cache is pretty bad [2013/08/15 15:19] Rex Cronon: wow. i thought it took about one hour [2013/08/15 15:19] Margithe: for already rezzed textures? it's pretty odd [2013/08/15 15:19] Jenna Felton: cool, a cake [2013/08/15 15:20] Rex Cronon: isn't the cake a lie:) [2013/08/15 15:20] Nal (nalates.urriah): Duckie, texture reloading is a bug. It has been around for awhile. Firestorm has a write up in their wiki. [2013/08/15 15:20] Blake Burger: CAKE :) [2013/08/15 15:20] Blake Burger: i just had my rez day a few days ago [2013/08/15 15:20] Whirly Fizzle: A lot of people are having issues with texture thrashing lately. (Actually since the SSA code went into the viewers, but maybe thats just coincidence in timing). However, if someone whos affected badly by it goes back to a pre SSA release, they don't have the issue. [2013/08/15 15:20] Jenna Felton: congrats [2013/08/15 15:20] arton Rotaru: that cake has bad LODs :p [2013/08/15 15:21] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Happy rezday [2013/08/15 15:21] Blake Burger: :) [2013/08/15 15:21] Margithe: Thank you Whirly. it's been more than an occasional texture going blurry now and then, it repeats until textures are discarded [2013/08/15 15:21] Whirly Fizzle: Yeah [2013/08/15 15:22] Whirly Fizzle: For some people its caused by wearing a certain item on their avatar or wearing a certain HUD. the most common HUD "causing" this is the Toddleedoo avatar HUD. As soon as thats removed the texture threahing stops. [2013/08/15 15:22] Blake Burger: I have noticed that too. [2013/08/15 15:23] arton Rotaru: thats odd [2013/08/15 15:23] Whirly Fizzle: Dome people get it really badly in all locations. For otheres it only happens in certain texture rich locations/ [2013/08/15 15:23] Jenna Felton: than is the problem somewhere in opengl? [2013/08/15 15:23] arton Rotaru: Dome peolple? [2013/08/15 15:23] Blake Burger: i dont get it that much though but i have had complaints from others in my sim... [2013/08/15 15:24] Jenna Felton: subby and dommme people :) [2013/08/15 15:24] Margithe: Hmm, the only HUD i ever wear is the AO... and all outfits have been working before without a hitch. [2013/08/15 15:24] Whirly Fizzle: Few JIRAS filed about it: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-3472, https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MATBUG-355, https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-2514 for example [2013/08/15 15:25] Lucia Nightfire: those toddledoo and pixie/petite/fairy avatars also suffer the same as the faux quad rigged avatars https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-3416 [2013/08/15 15:26] Whirly Fizzle: It seems to be across all viewers. V3, Firestorm, Singu & Cool users are all reporting it. For Firestorm, 4.3.1 doesn't have the problem and 4.4.0 up does. 4.4.0 was the first release after the SSA merge. But I don't know if thats related. There were HTTP changes in the viewer made around that time too. [2013/08/15 15:26] arton Rotaru: we love the BUG jira [2013/08/15 15:26] Duckie Dickins: I'm not special enough to view those jiras. :) [2013/08/15 15:26] arton Rotaru: since we can't see them [2013/08/15 15:27] Motor Loon: If you cant see it... it doesnt exists [2013/08/15 15:27] Jenna Felton: /me smiles [2013/08/15 15:27] arton Rotaru: probably motor [2013/08/15 15:28] Rex Cronon: there is the FIC and now we have FIJC;) [2013/08/15 15:28] Duckie Dickins: probably to prevent seeing who's assigned that bug so we won't email them every day asking if its fixed yet. :) [2013/08/15 15:28] Margithe: At best, you just see textures reloading. At worst, textures start getting discarded and/or you crash. [2013/08/15 15:29] arton Rotaru: for me it's blurry textures [2013/08/15 15:29] arton Rotaru: they never reload properly from cache [2013/08/15 15:29] Whirly Fizzle: Yeah. The texture thrashing reports started at the same time as the increased reports of oit of memory crashes [2013/08/15 15:29] Whirly Fizzle: *out [2013/08/15 15:30] Margithe: /me pokes the lindens with a stick to see if they are alive still [2013/08/15 15:30] Caleb Linden: yup yup [2013/08/15 15:31] Rex Cronon: they r busy reading jiras:) [2013/08/15 15:31] arton Rotaru: they play bing behinfd our backs [2013/08/15 15:31] Caleb Linden: speaking for which. [2013/08/15 15:31] arton Rotaru: bingo even* [2013/08/15 15:31] arton Rotaru: :p [2013/08/15 15:31] Caleb Linden: i haven't seen any in the queue after the roll yesterday [2013/08/15 15:31] Nyx Linden: /me beeps [2013/08/15 15:32] Whirly Fizzle: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SUN-109 is new after the roll :P [2013/08/15 15:33] Margithe: The thing is, it's been attributed to be a problem for texture-heavy sims. But the texture count is not going down in the foreseeable future, on the contorary, if you count in materials [2013/08/15 15:33] arton Rotaru: lol [2013/08/15 15:33] arton Rotaru: well yes, the texture issue is pretty annoying actually [2013/08/15 15:33] arton Rotaru: and should be addressed asap [2013/08/15 15:34] Blake Burger: SSA is only on magnum now i thought.... [2013/08/15 15:34] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): correct [2013/08/15 15:34] Nyx Linden: it is, thats why it is not working on LeTigre [2013/08/15 15:34] Caleb Linden: it is [2013/08/15 15:34] Blake Burger: yep, so that jira can be closed [2013/08/15 15:34] Blake Burger: * Hehehe * [2013/08/15 15:35] Margithe: so no idea where the blurry texture thing comes from, or any work-around? [2013/08/15 15:35] arton Rotaru: go topless like whirly perhaps [2013/08/15 15:35] Margithe: Aside what Whirly said so far [2013/08/15 15:35] Duckie Dickins: hehe..Metabolt is a work around. :) [2013/08/15 15:36] Nyx Linden: that's the first I'm hearing of that particular bug [2013/08/15 15:36] Whirly Fizzle: Theres some settings tweaks that can help but something has def changed viewerside that affects discarding of textures. [2013/08/15 15:36] Rex Cronon: i think a low resolution image is saved to chache is possible that the flag that says it is fully downloaded is also set [2013/08/15 15:36] Margithe: really? it's been big enough to reach the official Sl forums. And those aren't particularity quick [2013/08/15 15:37] arton Rotaru: the only fix for me is to clear texture cache and relog into the last location [2013/08/15 15:37] arton Rotaru: downloading them freshly seems to work [2013/08/15 15:37] arton Rotaru: but once they are in cache, it's starting all over agian [2013/08/15 15:37] Margithe: tried that, it doesn't fix the issue. Thought it was at my end only, to begin with until i saw threads about it [2013/08/15 15:38] Rex Cronon: if u clear cache manually is it better or worse? [2013/08/15 15:38] Margithe: Aah... [2013/08/15 15:38] Margithe: So it would mean clearing cache on every log in. [2013/08/15 15:38] arton Rotaru: on every move you make [2013/08/15 15:38] Margithe: ouch [2013/08/15 15:39] Whirly Fizzle: Enabling texture compression helps a lot of people (for both thrashing & out of mem crashes). Lowering the texture memory buffer can also help. If you're on FS, setting FSDestroyGLTexturesImmediately set to TRUE can help. [2013/08/15 15:39] arton Rotaru: yeah it really sucks big time IMHO [2013/08/15 15:39] arton Rotaru: texture compression arrgh [2013/08/15 15:39] arton Rotaru: then I can live with the half loaded maps as well ^^ [2013/08/15 15:39] Whirly Fizzle: Disabling VO can help with the memory bloat (usually at a cost of FPS though) [2013/08/15 15:39] Duckie Dickins: I haven't noticed it a whole lot on my PC but I have a decent amount of ram and viewers in general seem to appreciate that. [2013/08/15 15:39] Whirly Fizzle: *VBO [2013/08/15 15:40] arton Rotaru: it's not a ram issue [2013/08/15 15:40] Whirly Fizzle: Also make sure you don't have TextureLoadFullRes set to TRUE, which some creators recommend >.< [2013/08/15 15:40] arton Rotaru: since it worked better all the years before [2013/08/15 15:41] Rex Cronon: could it have something to do with the intrest list? [2013/08/15 15:41] Margithe: i noticed it first time last week, because quite literally, the sim i frequent froze the viewer, and textures started getting discarded. [2013/08/15 15:42] Whirly Fizzle: I don't know. Maybe? Maybe more objects are visible on a region now? [2013/08/15 15:42] Margithe: and nothing there had changed, nor under the hood of my pc either [2013/08/15 15:42] Margithe: I thought it was an interest list thing, but nothing had changed there, no? [2013/08/15 15:43] Nal (nalates.urriah): http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-10994 [2013/08/15 15:43] Rex Cronon: it is weird. i set my draw distance to 64, but if something changes in further than that i still get updated [2013/08/15 15:43] Margithe: i like the FS jira much much better ;) [2013/08/15 15:45] Nal (nalates.urriah): SL Jira: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-3472 [2013/08/15 15:45] Nal (nalates.urriah): Second Life 3.6.1 (278007) - Texture Thrashing [2013/08/15 15:45] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): I can't see it.. [2013/08/15 15:45] arton Rotaru: I'm pretty sure it did taht before 278007 already [2013/08/15 15:46] Rex Cronon: there could be multiple processes that try to r/w from cache at same time [2013/08/15 15:46] Whirly Fizzle: It started on 3.5.1 codebase [2013/08/15 15:46] Nal (nalates.urriah): Arton, I think you are right. But, I'm hearing it more often in groups and forum since SSA & Interest list. [2013/08/15 15:46] arton Rotaru: before the textures loaded pretty quick when hovering the mouse over the surface [2013/08/15 15:46] arton Rotaru: that doesen't work at all now [2013/08/15 15:47] Margithe: it's entirely possible that it's been a bug that has been present before, but now it's made to surface much more often [2013/08/15 15:47] Nal (nalates.urriah): I've noticed that change too Arton [2013/08/15 15:47] Whirly Fizzle: Im convinced its a viewer change. because FS users who have this problem, we send them back to 4.3.1 and they can't reproduce it with same settings and same locations. On 4.4.0 upwards they have this problem. Its harder to get V3 users testing on earlier builds because of the forced updates. [2013/08/15 15:48] arton Rotaru: what build would that be in LL viewers [2013/08/15 15:48] Nal (nalates.urriah): Plus I keep hitting regions that mostly stay grey. Come back hours later and they are fine. Oz thinks it is network... I can't pin it on anything yet. [2013/08/15 15:49] Jenna Felton: perhaps SL should have a small set of sims that are not on SSA when SSA is roled out :) [2013/08/15 15:49] Lucia Nightfire: Any Linden know if theres a fix for the asset handling blocking/delaying bug thats being exploited by certain spam vector objects that are in commercial distro atm? [2013/08/15 15:49] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): anti-snack? [2013/08/15 15:50] Rex Cronon: lucia. the one where attachements don't load, u can't rez from inventory? [2013/08/15 15:51] Lucia Nightfire: right, but there is no impact on TD/FPS or timings [2013/08/15 15:51] Kennylex Luckless: Where did my sun go? [2013/08/15 15:51] arton Rotaru: went down the horizon [2013/08/15 15:51] Lucia Nightfire: you can only raw material rez, but cannot rez from inv or attach [2013/08/15 15:51] Whirly Fizzle: Is it the memory allocated maxed issue? [2013/08/15 15:51] Jenna Felton: i love stars [2013/08/15 15:51] arton Rotaru: it's called night :p [2013/08/15 15:51] Duckie Dickins: same place the exercise equipment went? [2013/08/15 15:52] Kennylex Luckless: I can not see it and not find it in lost and found [2013/08/15 15:52] Rex Cronon: the langoliers ate them:0 [2013/08/15 15:52] Motor Loon: if those prims you rez act as if phantom, it sounds alot like what happens when havoc memory gets used up [2013/08/15 15:52] Whirly Fizzle: If memory allocated is at te limit the region shits down rezzing from inventory/attachments. You can rez fresh prims but they will be phantom. [2013/08/15 15:52] Whirly Fizzle: err shuts..... [2013/08/15 15:52] Whirly Fizzle: >.< [2013/08/15 15:52] Motor Loon: excactly °͜° [2013/08/15 15:52] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): lol that gos on a blog [2013/08/15 15:52] Whirly Fizzle: Though appropriate typo :P [2013/08/15 15:53] Jenna Felton: /me laughs [2013/08/15 15:53] Whirly Fizzle: If its the memory allocated, region restart will fix it (until memory allocated maxes again) [2013/08/15 15:54] Lucia Nightfire: this is something else [2013/08/15 15:54] Lucia Nightfire: it exploiting a weakness in the http changes afaik [2013/08/15 15:54] Whirly Fizzle: Rebaking a region a lot is a good way to get a region in that state [2013/08/15 15:54] Jenna Felton: is this not a receipt for another sim grief? [2013/08/15 15:54] Rex Cronon: u can't rez anything [2013/08/15 15:54] Rex Cronon: not ghost not anything [2013/08/15 15:54] Rex Cronon: and sim is not full [2013/08/15 15:54] Lucia Nightfire: the weakness is pre-pending dl & ul queuing [2013/08/15 15:55] Lucia Nightfire: where assets are stacked internally before beign recognized and handled as pending dl's and ul's [2013/08/15 15:55] Rex Cronon: if u have a mesh ave u become invisible [2013/08/15 15:55] Lucia Nightfire: *requests [2013/08/15 15:55] arton Rotaru: or topless [2013/08/15 15:55] arton Rotaru: :p [2013/08/15 15:55] Whirly Fizzle: >.> [2013/08/15 15:57] Lucia Nightfire: the problem is the stacking, which gets handled over time, causing inventory rez requests to happen much later, up to 40 - 45 minutes later w/o the owner there [2013/08/15 15:57] arton Rotaru: cool [2013/08/15 15:57] Margithe: Hi Baker [2013/08/15 15:57] Nal (nalates.urriah): Group bans? [2013/08/15 15:57] Lucia Nightfire: the effect can be perpetual if the asset request involves the same spam vector host [2013/08/15 15:57] Jenna Felton: that could be a problem [2013/08/15 15:58] Jenna Felton: you rezz a nocopy object and wonder where it gone later [2013/08/15 15:58] Rex Cronon: it is a problem already [2013/08/15 15:58] Lucia Nightfire: I see it being exploited most of teh time in the weapons testing region, but have seen it attempted to be used in sandboxes as well [2013/08/15 15:58] Lucia Nightfire: its commercially available from one particular "combat HUD" creator now... [2013/08/15 15:59] Caleb Linden: good to know [2013/08/15 15:59] Whirly Fizzle: Lovely..... [2013/08/15 15:59] Lucia Nightfire: there are other commonly distro'd object though that don't have as a sustainign effect though [2013/08/15 16:00] arton Rotaru: times up [2013/08/15 16:00] Duckie Dickins: aww..the cake WAS a lie.....baker ate it all. :) [2013/08/15 16:00] Jenna Felton: hehee [2013/08/15 16:01] Blake Burger: hehehe [2013/08/15 16:01] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): There never *was* any cake. [2013/08/15 16:02] arton Rotaru: okies, I have to leave [2013/08/15 16:02] arton Rotaru: bye all