Beta server office Hours/Minutes/2017-04-27
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[2017/04/27 15:00] Mazidox Linden: Lucia, can you file a bug about that please?
[2017/04/27 15:00] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): I have to file a bug? no one can check that?
[2017/04/27 15:00] Mazidox Linden: (That falls under "Please file a report if you notice *anything* strange related to inventory")
[2017/04/27 15:01] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
[2017/04/27 15:01] Whirly Fizzle: Hi Rex
[2017/04/27 15:01] Minuet Voir: hmm I was about to ask about that; mine hasn't been updating for longer; tons of stuff I've deleted from Agni along with older outfit parts that have since been updated (I was actually thinking of filing a sup ticket, but am a bit afraid to make it worse)
[2017/04/27 15:01] Nal (nalates.urriah): Hi
[2017/04/27 15:01] Rex Cronon: hi whirly
[2017/04/27 15:01] Rex Cronon: hi nal
[2017/04/27 15:02] Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): Minuet, the inventory on aditi is just adding stuff from agni
[2017/04/27 15:02] Whirly Fizzle: Stuff you delete on Agni won't delete here.
[2017/04/27 15:02] Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): ^^
[2017/04/27 15:02] Whirly Fizzle: So we have nice bloated invy here now :(
[2017/04/27 15:02] Mazidox Linden: Okay, we're past start, let's get going.
[2017/04/27 15:02] Minuet Voir: Can I get it resynced? or do I just deal with it?
[2017/04/27 15:02] Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): you can request a fresh fetch
[2017/04/27 15:02] Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): from support
[2017/04/27 15:02] Whirly Fizzle: I guess you can get resynced. Wanted to get that done myself actually
[2017/04/27 15:03] Rex Cronon: i don't. all my inventory her got deleted and replace with the one from main:(
[2017/04/27 15:03] Minuet Voir: Thanks. It makes me twitch something awful.
[2017/04/27 15:03] Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): but you will lose everything you might have extra on aditi
[2017/04/27 15:03] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): thing is, it should resynch past midnight regardless
[2017/04/27 15:03] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): that ain't happening
[2017/04/27 15:03] Nexii Malthus: ah, so it's a replacement?
[2017/04/27 15:03] Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): how long has it been lucy
[2017/04/27 15:03] Mazidox Linden: Okay, hang on.
[2017/04/27 15:03] Nexii Malthus: my inventory definitely hasn't resynced for... 1-2 years I think?
[2017/04/27 15:03] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): since Apr 6 or 7
[2017/04/27 15:04] Whirly Fizzle: It should resync within 24hrs now you logged in here. Well, merge, not sync.
[2017/04/27 15:04] Minuet Voir: my new outfits on Agni, are empty folders here
[2017/04/27 15:04] Mazidox Linden: If it's been more than three days and you don't have any new inventory from Agni, please file a bug report. If you are having objects that are Aditi only blown away by sync from Agni, please file a different ticket. If you need a fresh inventory from Agni, please file a support ticket.
[2017/04/27 15:04] Minuet Voir: Thanks :D
[2017/04/27 15:05] Mazidox Linden: If you notice literally anything else weird with inventory, we need a bug report, please.
[2017/04/27 15:05] Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): hi lucy, do me a favor. Create something with a unique name on agni
[2017/04/27 15:05] Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): and note the asset_id
[2017/04/27 15:05] Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): i'll then search for it on aditi
[2017/04/27 15:05] Mazidox Linden: Inventory is a system under test on Aditi at present, and you're our best shot at catching the many different ways it can have problems.
[2017/04/27 15:05] Nal (nalates.urriah): I did some rearanging in AGNI. I looged to ADITI for a minute or so to fices an update here. And today I see the changes here.
[2017/04/27 15:05] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): I can't get asset ids that easily
[2017/04/27 15:05] Minuet Voir: Okay. I wasn't sure what was normal as I've only been coming back here recently.
[2017/04/27 15:06] Nexii Malthus: filter inventory by...age......newest inventory item is … 1897 days ago
[2017/04/27 15:06] Whirly Fizzle: What did you change with inventory here?
[2017/04/27 15:06] Mazidox Linden: New hardware for an inventory server.
[2017/04/27 15:06] Whirly Fizzle: ahh ok
[2017/04/27 15:06] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): I just rezzed a box with key 6d073a57-984f-3a5e-3fbd-ff842fcc7ce2, titled it 6d073a57-984f-3a5e-3fbd-ff842fcc7ce2 and took into inventory
[2017/04/27 15:06] Mazidox Linden: Okay, to our agenda!
[2017/04/27 15:07] arton Rotaru: create an image or an animation perhaps
[2017/04/27 15:07] Mazidox Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Agenda_2017-04-27
[2017/04/27 15:07] Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): lucy, ok let's wait until tomorrow
[2017/04/27 15:07] Mazidox Linden: DRTSIM-347 is now on an RC on Agni. DRTSIM-332 is on the other two, as I recall.
[2017/04/27 15:07] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): and waiting will fix this?
[2017/04/27 15:08] Whirly Fizzle: Oh Hmm I see same as Min, My outfits created on Agni before my last login here have synced the folder over but the folder is empty
[2017/04/27 15:08] Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): lucy, i have to check your inventory if it really made to the other side. (if it's broken somehow, we will investigate it further)
[2017/04/27 15:08] Mazidox Linden: Those are respectively a maintenance release, and the improvement to region capacity and access.
[2017/04/27 15:09] Mazidox Linden: DRTSIM-323 (Operating System upgrade, woooo!) is still running on RC Cake.
[2017/04/27 15:10] Mazidox Linden: If you're interested in opting a region you own to RC Cake, please feel free to contact Concierge Support.
[2017/04/27 15:10] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): if you want tsl 1.2 capability, heh
[2017/04/27 15:11] Mazidox Linden: Among other things, yep!
[2017/04/27 15:11] Mazidox Linden: We're going to give the whole grid Cake eventually, it's just a matter of time.
[2017/04/27 15:12] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): then you'll hear teh screams
[2017/04/27 15:12] arton Rotaru: free cake for everybody yay
[2017/04/27 15:12] Rex Cronon: why screams? is cake bad 4 u?
[2017/04/27 15:12] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): because something will break
[2017/04/27 15:13] Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): people will have stomachache
[2017/04/27 15:13] Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): right
[2017/04/27 15:13] Minuet Voir: Screaming /for/ cake is good; screaming about bad cake, not so good.
[2017/04/27 15:13] Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): ?
[2017/04/27 15:13] Nexii Malthus: I'll contact concierge then about opting in
[2017/04/27 15:13] Mazidox Linden: But it's so delicious...
[2017/04/27 15:13] Rex Cronon: depends
[2017/04/27 15:13] Rex Cronon: i never tried mud cakes. lol
[2017/04/27 15:13] Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): chocolate cakes
[2017/04/27 15:14] Mazidox Linden: Ahem, moving on to DRTSIM-343, or as Rider likes to call it "Jigglypuff" :)
[2017/04/27 15:14] Minuet Voir: German Chocolate Cakek
[2017/04/27 15:14] arton Rotaru: schwarzwälderkirsch
[2017/04/27 15:14] Minuet Voir: Jigglypuff...
[2017/04/27 15:14] Theresa Tennyson: Okay, this is interesting - changes I've made to my outfits that I HAVEN'T done through "Save" in the appearance panel aren't showing up - i.e. if dragged links into folders or if I used Firestorm's "replace links" function.
[2017/04/27 15:14] Mazidox Linden: We keep meaning to test it... But I fall asleep every time I try :(
[2017/04/27 15:15] Minuet Voir: and then apparently go 'sleep shopping'
[2017/04/27 15:15] Rex Cronon: "Jigglypuff" puts u to sleep mazidox?
[2017/04/27 15:16] Mazidox Linden: That might explain my increased inventory size on Agni!
[2017/04/27 15:16] Rex Cronon: :)
[2017/04/27 15:16] Minuet Voir: You might want to file that ;-)
[2017/04/27 15:17] Rex Cronon: and now everybody fell asleep?
[2017/04/27 15:18] arton Rotaru: you you have been disconnected Rex :p
[2017/04/27 15:18] Rex Cronon: haha
[2017/04/27 15:18] Mazidox Linden: So, next week we're aiming to move DRTSIM-332 to Second Life Server
[2017/04/27 15:19] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): and hopefully a fix to llGetEnv("agent_limit") too?
[2017/04/27 15:19] Mazidox Linden: Yeah, that's fixed.
[2017/04/27 15:19] arton Rotaru: you are asking for too much Lucy
[2017/04/27 15:19] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): fixed on what version?
[2017/04/27 15:19] Mazidox Linden: Dah dah dah, let me see
[2017/04/27 15:19] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): not asking enough, arton, smh
[2017/04/27 15:19] Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): *Music by Europe*
[2017/04/27 15:20] arton Rotaru: smh = smiling most honestly :p
[2017/04/27 15:20] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): asking for MAINT-6270 isn't asking too much either, but it is still an issue
[2017/04/27 15:20] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): *to be fixed
[2017/04/27 15:20] Mazidox Linden: That should be 325754 Lucia.
[2017/04/27 15:20] Rider Linden: Somebody had Jigglypuff questions?
[2017/04/27 15:21] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): so MG and BS
[2017/04/27 15:21] Rex Cronon: yes rider. why does it put mazidox to sleep:)
[2017/04/27 15:21] Minuet Voir: Do Jigglypuffs have a soft chewy centre?
[2017/04/27 15:21] Whirly Fizzle: We can't talk about Jigglypuff, it puts mazi to sleep
[2017/04/27 15:21] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): so hopefully all the grid next week?
[2017/04/27 15:21] Rider Linden: @Minuet: Yes, and they taste like cotton candy.
[2017/04/27 15:21] Minuet Voir: \o/
[2017/04/27 15:22] Rex Cronon: although, i am not sure what exactly this jigglypuff thing is for
[2017/04/27 15:22] Mazidox Linden: You wanna explain it Rider?
[2017/04/27 15:22] Rider Linden: Jigglypuff is the internal name for the Parcel Ban Line Override
[2017/04/27 15:22] arton Rotaru: lol
[2017/04/27 15:23] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): aka Estate Exodus
[2017/04/27 15:23] Rex Cronon: jeez. i thought was about flexi meshes:)
[2017/04/27 15:23] arton Rotaru: we called it just Meh, didn't we lol
[2017/04/27 15:24] arton Rotaru: well, some did
[2017/04/27 15:24] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): you won't see flexi mesh until 2018
[2017/04/27 15:24] Minuet Voir: doesn't see the correlation, but that's okay
[2017/04/27 15:24] arton Rotaru: not all of us
[2017/04/27 15:24] Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): mehby, arton
[2017/04/27 15:24] Mazidox Linden: Okay, where did I leave off?
[2017/04/27 15:25] Minuet Voir: though for some reason I have this vision now of the Pillsbury's Dough Boy slamming up again banlines begging for entry
[2017/04/27 15:25] Rider Linden: Anyway. There were a number of suggestions about additions to the project. I just finished getting the code in that will send a notification to the parcel owner if their access settings are changed out from under them.
[2017/04/27 15:26] Rider Linden: I've also fixed it so that the previous settings are stored in the simstate and restored if the override is reverted.
[2017/04/27 15:26] arton Rotaru: yay
[2017/04/27 15:26] Minuet Voir: Nice
[2017/04/27 15:26] Whirly Fizzle: Cool
[2017/04/27 15:26] arton Rotaru: cake for rider
[2017/04/27 15:26] Rider Linden: \o/
[2017/04/27 15:26] Rider Linden: You aren't lying to me about the cake are you Arton?
[2017/04/27 15:26] arton Rotaru: I never would
[2017/04/27 15:27] Nexii Malthus: what if the cake is pan?
[2017/04/27 15:27] Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): Schwarzwaelder, please
[2017/04/27 15:27] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): it could have simply been made to be an override, not an updater, like all other existing region settings behave, heh
[2017/04/27 15:27] Nexii Malthus: or jaffa?
[2017/04/27 15:27] Nexii Malthus: mmmh jaffa cake
[2017/04/27 15:27] Rex Cronon: arton. u have a flexi cake:)
[2017/04/27 15:27] arton Rotaru: lol
[2017/04/27 15:27] Rider Linden: Flexi Mesh Cake
[2017/04/27 15:27] Rider Linden: !
[2017/04/27 15:27] arton Rotaru: meh
[2017/04/27 15:27] Rex Cronon: flexi jiggly cake:)
[2017/04/27 15:27] Rider Linden: With cotton candy filling
[2017/04/27 15:28] Mazidox Linden: So, we're moving Second Life RC Snack (which is some internal fixes) to a main RC next week. Not sure which one yet, sorry >.<
[2017/04/27 15:28] Minuet Voir: \o/
[2017/04/27 15:28] arton Rotaru: code some flexi into mesh and we are in business
[2017/04/27 15:28] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): you won't get that until Project Alive
[2017/04/27 15:30] Mazidox Linden: So I'm guessing some of you all have heard rumblings of the dread cry "INVENTORY LOSS"?
[2017/04/27 15:30] Rider Linden: The Leafeon and adjacent regions here on Aditi usually are running the most bleeding edge version of Jigglypuff.
[2017/04/27 15:30] Rex Cronon: somebody lost like 15items?
[2017/04/27 15:30] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): I'm hainvg inv loss here atm, heh
[2017/04/27 15:30] Rex Cronon: 15k*
[2017/04/27 15:30] Whirly Fizzle: lol what other job would let you say that Rider :D
[2017/04/27 15:31] Mazidox Linden: Yeah, but I don't think those are open Rider? I'm gonna have some public demo regions set up for next week, at any rate.
[2017/04/27 15:32] Rex Cronon: i heard rumors that folders endup in deleted folder and if u clean that folder they get lost or something like that
[2017/04/27 15:32] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): they end up in trash folder every time LL does inv maintenence
[2017/04/27 15:32] Rider Linden: I think they may be just as a side effect of my testing...
[2017/04/27 15:32] Rex Cronon: u have to wait until u have over 5k items in it before trying to empty it?
[2017/04/27 15:33] arton Rotaru: Proks threads are always entertaining
[2017/04/27 15:33] Mazidox Linden: So, I don't know specifics, but I know that we found an issue with a backend service and have a possible fix for it. That should help! In addition, we're thinking about some various viewer changes we can make to make it harder to permanently lose inventory on accident.
[2017/04/27 15:33] arton Rotaru: at least from spectators point of view^^
[2017/04/27 15:33] Rex Cronon: if people start to loose they shoes folder u r going to have a huge problem on your hands...
[2017/04/27 15:33] Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): understandable
[2017/04/27 15:34] Mazidox Linden: We don't want anyone to lose things!
[2017/04/27 15:34] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): we're thinking about some various viewer changes we can make to make it harder to permanently lose inventory on accident. <<---what does those entail so far?
[2017/04/27 15:34] Rex Cronon: on the forum arton?
[2017/04/27 15:34] Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): except for weight
[2017/04/27 15:34] Mazidox Linden: Too early to discuss in detail Lucia, sorry.
[2017/04/27 15:34] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): pfft
[2017/04/27 15:34] Whirly Fizzle: I saw a commit go in disabling backspace as delete
[2017/04/27 15:34] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): you can't list anything?
[2017/04/27 15:34] Whirly Fizzle: But some mac user complained about that change.
[2017/04/27 15:34] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): this isn't IP protection or anything, smh
[2017/04/27 15:35] Nexii Malthus: yeah, no delete button in mac, usually use backspace, that'd be a pain
[2017/04/27 15:35] arton Rotaru: yep, forum Rex
[2017/04/27 15:36] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): are we going to have to wait until LL's fix is implemented to field questions?
[2017/04/27 15:36] Whirly Fizzle: https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/viewer-neko/pull-requests/248/maint-7357-disable-delete-function-of-the/diff#comment-35837091
[2017/04/27 15:37] Rider Linden: eep.
[2017/04/27 15:37] Rider Linden: /me crys bitter bitter tears.
[2017/04/27 15:37] Mazidox Linden: Unless we get it done quickly and it's all done by next week, I don't think so Lucia.
[2017/04/27 15:37] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): LL does not involved the community enough as it is
[2017/04/27 15:37] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): not suprising
[2017/04/27 15:38] Rex Cronon: a llFolderFuntions(int type, list l) where type=MOVE, DELETE, COPY, RENAME, would be quite useful:)
[2017/04/27 15:38] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): no it isn't Rex
[2017/04/27 15:38] arton Rotaru: lol
[2017/04/27 15:38] Whirly Fizzle: You want scripts to have access to inventory?
[2017/04/27 15:38] Rex Cronon: maybe not 4 u
[2017/04/27 15:38] Rex Cronon: yes
[2017/04/27 15:38] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): I don't scripts touching my inventory, heh
[2017/04/27 15:38] Whirly Fizzle: No....
[2017/04/27 15:39] Rider Linden: That may fall under "seemed like a good idea at the time"
[2017/04/27 15:39] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): lol
[2017/04/27 15:39] Rex Cronon: lol u r afraid a bad one would wipe u clean? lols
[2017/04/27 15:39] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): there is no nedd to begin with
[2017/04/27 15:39] Mazidox Linden: All I'm saying is I'm not prepared to talk details right this instant Lucia, not that it's never up for discussion. (I will also note that this is mostly a sidebar to the main discussion, as this is a server group, and we're now firmly into the realm of viewer changes)
[2017/04/27 15:39] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): *need
[2017/04/27 15:39] Nexii Malthus: rm -rf
[2017/04/27 15:39] Rider Linden: Yes, for starters.
[2017/04/27 15:39] Mazidox Linden: rm -rf --no-preserve-root /
[2017/04/27 15:40] Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): can i try this?
[2017/04/27 15:40] Rider Linden: not within 10 feet of my machines Caleb
[2017/04/27 15:40] Nexii Malthus: in a VM mebe
[2017/04/27 15:40] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): so what other nes?
[2017/04/27 15:41] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): news
[2017/04/27 15:41] Rider Linden: Niet, non, いいえ
[2017/04/27 15:41] Whirly Fizzle: Is there a fix yet for the caps fail that isn't really caps fail on Cake?
[2017/04/27 15:41] Nexii Malthus: I'm curious about this improved region capabity/access
[2017/04/27 15:41] Mazidox Linden: There isn't much more. We're working on some backend service tests, I don't have any news on my Linden Can...
[2017/04/27 15:42] Rex Cronon: how about llReadNotecard(string folder, string name) that read notecard from user inventory?
[2017/04/27 15:42] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): how about forget about it
[2017/04/27 15:42] Mazidox Linden: Cautious yes Whirly? I can't say for sure confidently, but I am about 95% sure yes.
[2017/04/27 15:42] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): there is no need
[2017/04/27 15:42] Rider Linden: @Nexii: Haunter?
[2017/04/27 15:42] arton Rotaru: sounds like a NSA function
[2017/04/27 15:42] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): you want to read a nc, put it in a prim
[2017/04/27 15:42] Whirly Fizzle: Ok cool. Ty Mazi
[2017/04/27 15:42] Rex Cronon: how about u put a sock in it lucy:)
[2017/04/27 15:43] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): Rider, only you know the pokequivalent names
[2017/04/27 15:43] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): Rex, you cannot present a rational use for needing scripts to read your inventory
[2017/04/27 15:43] Mazidox Linden: As I mentioned we'll have a demo of DRTSIM-343 next week. There'll be parcels and EM powers and possibly bad jokes about my sleep shopping habits.
[2017/04/27 15:43] Rex Cronon: oh really? can u present one for not wanting scripts to do that?
[2017/04/27 15:44] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): yes, mass inventory loss
[2017/04/27 15:44] Mazidox Linden: Hey Lucia, Rex, can we save this for after the meeting?
[2017/04/27 15:44] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): by either user error, or third party scripts secretly doign things
[2017/04/27 15:44] Whirly Fizzle: Oh, can someone please set Testylvania sandbox on Aditi to public access? The group needed to access doesn't exists on Aditi.
[2017/04/27 15:44] Rex Cronon: a script reading a notecard from an user inventory leads to mass inventory loss? haha
[2017/04/27 15:44] Rex Cronon: ok mazidox
[2017/04/27 15:45] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): I thought there was nothing left on the agenda, heh
[2017/04/27 15:45] Mazidox Linden: We're still requesting a bug report if you find anything strange with inventory on Aditi. Anything at all! We're testing new hardware and we need to know if there are any issues, big or small.
[2017/04/27 15:45] Rex Cronon: if agenda empty than anything goes. right
[2017/04/27 15:45] Rex Cronon: ?
[2017/04/27 15:46] Whirly Fizzle: Oh and did you guys look at the logs after last weeks meeting to see why I get disconnected from restarting regions after leaving? :)
[2017/04/27 15:46] Whirly Fizzle: Because it's driving me bonkers
[2017/04/27 15:46] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): lol
[2017/04/27 15:47] Rex Cronon: what do u know. i wasn't the only one that was having disconnection problems
[2017/04/27 15:47] Mazidox Linden: I don't recall, but if I do I know where the logs would be stored. I'll take a poke later.
[2017/04/27 15:47] Mazidox Linden: /me scribbles a note
[2017/04/27 15:47] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): after he updates 3 weeks of transcripts on the wiki
[2017/04/27 15:47] Whirly Fizzle: I guess those logs are gone now though so I'll need to repro again?
[2017/04/27 15:47] Mazidox Linden: Anyone have any issues that have been overlooked, or questions?
[2017/04/27 15:48] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): question
[2017/04/27 15:48] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): shouts: WHERE ARE THE SHINEYS?
[2017/04/27 15:48] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): you all saw that coming
[2017/04/27 15:48] arton Rotaru: cake?
[2017/04/27 15:49] arton Rotaru: cup of tea perhaps
[2017/04/27 15:49] Mazidox Linden: /me throws popcorn at Caleb to update the transcripts
[2017/04/27 15:49] Whirly Fizzle: I wanted to ask about https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-100493
[2017/04/27 15:49] Rex Cronon: u got the jigglypuff stuff lucy:)
[2017/04/27 15:49] Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): yuummmm
[2017/04/27 15:49] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): jigglypuff isn't shineys we're looking for
[2017/04/27 15:49] Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): hot butter and popcorn
[2017/04/27 15:49] Whirly Fizzle: Why is return blocked for no mod objects only? Doesn't make sense to me.
[2017/04/27 15:50] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): doesn't make sense mod objects allow return anywhere
[2017/04/27 15:50] Whirly Fizzle: Well yeah, it's inconsistent for no reason I can think of
[2017/04/27 15:50] Mazidox Linden: Grumpity is standing behind me and says "Please no"
[2017/04/27 15:50] arton Rotaru: lol
[2017/04/27 15:50] Minuet Voir: lol
[2017/04/27 15:50] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): they are afraid ot touching it
[2017/04/27 15:50] Mazidox Linden: It's scary and touching it could break the universe.
[2017/04/27 15:50] Whirly Fizzle: She all gnomed out? lol
[2017/04/27 15:51] Nexii Malthus: lol
[2017/04/27 15:51] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): perms changes = sucking on a kryptonite lemon
[2017/04/27 15:51] Whirly Fizzle: If it's just that no one wants to touch it with a 10 foot pole then that's fine as a reason lol
[2017/04/27 15:51] Mazidox Linden: 80 ft
[2017/04/27 15:51] Whirly Fizzle: I just want to no why the inconsistency. Why block return on no mod only.
[2017/04/27 15:51] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): we'll never get perms after next owner capability then, heh
[2017/04/27 15:51] Rex Cronon: u lindens shouldn't be afraid of it. u know, what doesn't kill u it makes u stronger:)
[2017/04/27 15:52] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): what doesn't kill you, puts you in teh unemployment line though
[2017/04/27 15:52] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): sometimes
[2017/04/27 15:53] Mazidox Linden: You're assuming that it won't kill us :(
[2017/04/27 15:53] Rex Cronon: it can also make u advance faster:)
[2017/04/27 15:53] Whirly Fizzle: Ok, so official answer is just "Oh hell no" ? lol
[2017/04/27 15:53] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): if QA wasn't so hit an miss, then they could take a whack at it
[2017/04/27 15:53] arton Rotaru: actually,
[2017/04/27 15:54] arton Rotaru: what does that mean, no mod is blocked from returning?
[2017/04/27 15:54] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): w/ mod rights on the owner's objects
[2017/04/27 15:54] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): if the object is mod, it can be returned anywhere, if jnto, it can't
[2017/04/27 15:54] Mazidox Linden: Specifically if you have no way to return it, except that it belongs to your bestie who trusts you with literally everything.
[2017/04/27 15:54] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): or rahter
[2017/04/27 15:55] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): if not, if falls back on prim return rights
[2017/04/27 15:55] Mazidox Linden: If you have any other reason you could return it, you can still return it.
[2017/04/27 15:55] Whirly Fizzle: If you have mod rights for a friend, and friend rezzed a mod box and a no mod box. On land where you have no special return rights via estate or group or parcel land, you can return the friends mod box but not return the no mod box.
[2017/04/27 15:55] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): but the object being mod shouldn't dictate that
[2017/04/27 15:55] Whirly Fizzle: I know
[2017/04/27 15:55] arton Rotaru: ah ok I see
[2017/04/27 15:55] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): it should be strictly prim return ability vs land ownership level, only
[2017/04/27 15:56] Whirly Fizzle: It should either allow return of mod and no mod or block both unless you have land/group return powers.
[2017/04/27 15:56] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): whirly and I are at a difference there, lol
[2017/04/27 15:56] Mazidox Linden: Out of curiosity, how many of you have any familiarity with QA beyond these meetings?
[2017/04/27 15:56] Whirly Fizzle: So I'm really curious why it's the way it is.
[2017/04/27 15:56] Mazidox Linden: (Any kind of QA)
[2017/04/27 15:57] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): I think it should not return mod or no mod unless your prim return abilities allow it
[2017/04/27 15:57] Rex Cronon: define familiarty mazidox:)
[2017/04/27 15:58] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): Mazi are you asking for our contractual experience level, heh
[2017/04/27 15:58] Mazidox Linden: I'm using it colloquially... Anyway, my actual point here is that in QA we have a formal concept of risk. One of the ways we define risk is the probability of a defect occurring, multiplied by the severity of the defect (measured in various ways) if it does occur.
[2017/04/27 15:59] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): what I demand is actual user experience in all aspects of the viewer and commerce and content creation
[2017/04/27 15:59] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): else you are looking at the code with narrow vision
[2017/04/27 16:00] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): it does help to have pile ons for things when possible
[2017/04/27 16:00] Rex Cronon: i assume u just use automated testing, but that doesn't cover all posibilities
[2017/04/27 16:00] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): but it really helps knowing when you make a change where it will have domino effects even if they seem unrelated
[2017/04/27 16:00] Mazidox Linden: The severity side of "changes to permissions" is extremely high. Even if we do a whole lot of testing of a permission change for months or years, if one defect slips through it could be incredibly damaging to the grid.
[2017/04/27 16:00] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): automated is not reliable across multiple systems imo
[2017/04/27 16:02] Minuet Voir: hmm am I still connected?
[2017/04/27 16:02] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): there are perms exploits that need to be fixed right now that warrant changes, but that is viewed as a opinion to some, heh
[2017/04/27 16:02] Minuet Voir: sometimes best to leave well enough alone
[2017/04/27 16:02] Minuet Voir: oh, there I am
[2017/04/27 16:02] Whirly Fizzle: Hmm my last post didn't post....
[2017/04/27 16:02] Minuet Voir: some sort of spike
[2017/04/27 16:02] Whirly Fizzle: Yep I totally understand that. That's what I was asking. If that JIRA issue is technically a bug but you just didn't want to touch it because there's a workaround & because it's permissions. That's fine.
[2017/04/27 16:02] Whirly Fizzle: Repost lol
[2017/04/27 16:03] Nexii Malthus: uff got disconnected
[2017/04/27 16:03] Whirly Fizzle: Im just curious if it's expected behaviour (you said it was) then WHY is that expected behaviour
[2017/04/27 16:03] Mazidox Linden: I hope I've sufficiently answered that question!
[2017/04/27 16:03] Whirly Fizzle: As in, what's the reason for allowing return of mod only in that case
[2017/04/27 16:03] Whirly Fizzle: No lol
[2017/04/27 16:03] arton Rotaru: because it slipped thruQA
[2017/04/27 16:03] arton Rotaru: ^^
[2017/04/27 16:03] Rex Cronon: it might be possible that if one ave in the sim experience connection problems that the others are affected too?
[2017/04/27 16:03] Theresa Tennyson: EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED
[2017/04/27 16:03] Minuet Voir: 42
[2017/04/27 16:04] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): because a Linden in the past thought it made sense, heh
[2017/04/27 16:04] Whirly Fizzle: So, it's actually a bug but no one wants to fix it because too risky?
[2017/04/27 16:04] Nexii Malthus: :o
[2017/04/27 16:04] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): a Linden in the past thought it made sense people should be able to pull items out of no mod objects too, smh
[2017/04/27 16:05] Rex Cronon: seem as lucy said that the fear of failure to fix is too high:(
[2017/04/27 16:05] Minuet Voir: /me declares it a bug as it is not documented otherwise
[2017/04/27 16:05] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): well, there is also the question is the bug so much a problem that it requires priority
[2017/04/27 16:05] Whirly Fizzle: It's ok to say on a JIRA issue that it's too risky to fix btw lol.
[2017/04/27 16:05] Minuet Voir: yep, and no
[2017/04/27 16:06] arton Rotaru: first time I heard of it in 10 years ^^
[2017/04/27 16:07] Rex Cronon: i g2g. tc folks and have "fun" :)
[2017/04/27 16:07] Nexii Malthus: cya rex
[2017/04/27 16:07] arton Rotaru: bye Rexy
[2017/04/27 16:07] Minuet Voir: bye Rex
[2017/04/27 16:07] Rex Cronon: tc nexii
[2017/04/27 16:07] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): now for me to shut Rex down for good on his scripted access to user inventory: scripts would need access to asset keys and LL already said that is a big nono, so no can do
[2017/04/27 16:07] Rex Cronon: tc arton
[2017/04/27 16:07] Rex Cronon: tc minuet
[2017/04/27 16:07] Mazidox Linden: Thanks for coming out all!
[2017/04/27 16:07] Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): thats all we got
[2017/04/27 16:07] Whirly Fizzle: Thanks Lindens
[2017/04/27 16:08] Mazidox Linden: Caleb posted the transcripts that were missing
[2017/04/27 16:08] Minuet Voir: You're welcome, thank you :-)
[2017/04/27 16:08] arton Rotaru: thanks guys
[2017/04/27 16:08] arton Rotaru: enjoy your cake
[2017/04/27 16:08] Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): gotta shovel some snow away before moving my 4 wheeler
[2017/04/27 16:08] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): tyvm Caleb
[2017/04/27 16:08] Minuet Voir: snow?
[2017/04/27 16:08] Caleb the Cable Guy (caleb.linden): just moving my car, but needed to embellish the narrative a bit
[2017/04/27 16:08] Nexii Malthus: there's usecases for automation of inventory Lucy, but probably very unlikely by LSL, I can agree on that
[2017/04/27 16:09] Minuet Voir: lol okay
[2017/04/27 16:09] Lucy Daughter of the Devil (lucia.nightfire): you think LL is scared of toughing perms, they would die if scripts screwed up someone's inv
[2017/04/27 16:09] Minuet Voir: Was that Whirly just repro-ing the disconnect?
[2017/04/27 16:09] Nexii Malthus: o.o
[2017/04/27 16:10] Nexii Malthus: probably not