Bug triage/2008-01-07/Transcript

Agenda

• [12:07] Squirrel Wood: via an optional dialog
• [12:07] Squirrel Wood: like, "Return banned players objects? [yes]/[no]
• [12:08] Squirrel Wood: Bunneh!
• [12:08] Aric Linden: I agree, Squirrel except that I'd like to take it anyway and test it with the new parcel media code being written
• [12:08] Alexa Linden: :D
• [12:08] Alexa Linden: sorry I'm late
• [12:08] Aric Linden: hi Alexa
• [12:08] Aric Linden: np: we're literally just getting started
• [12:08] Alexa Linden: yay!
• [12:08] Squirrel Wood: ^^
• [12:08] Aric Linden: Does anyone feel as though we shouldn't take SVC-1037?
• [12:09] Squirrel Wood: It will make many sim owners happy and hopefully reduce the work load on the governance team and the grid monkeys
• [12:09] Aric Linden: yep.
• [12:09] Aric Linden: I have a sneaky feeling it's already in the new code
• [12:09] Squirrel Wood: heh
• [12:09] Aric Linden: So we'll take it
• [12:09] Alexa Linden: who shall I assing to?
• [12:09] Alexa Linden: assign*
• [12:09] Aric Linden: me please
• [12:09] Alexa Linden: ok
• [12:09] Aric Linden: thanks
• [12:10] Aric Linden: SVC-476 is next
• [12:10] Aric Linden: Saijani, shouldn't that be a monkey?
• [12:10] Alexa Linden: lol
• [12:11] Saijanai Kuhn: it symbolizes my pawah as a bug hunter (or somethign)
• [12:11] Alexa Linden: ^^
• [12:11] Squirrel Wood: Hello Soft ^^
• [12:11] Aric Linden: Let's take this one too.
• [12:12] Aric Linden: Hiya Soft
• [12:12] Alexa Linden: ok
• [12:12] Soft Linden: Hey hey hey
• [12:12] Squirrel Wood: yup yup. wrong key returned = no good
• [12:12] Aric Linden: agrees with Squirrel
• [12:12] Aric Linden: SVC-674 is next
• [12:14] Squirrel Wood: hmm... buffer overflow of some sort?
• [12:14] Boroondas Gupte: or too strickt checks to avoid them?
• [12:15] Soft Linden: I believe the description is like the name, where different parts of the system allow different lengths.
• [12:15] Squirrel Wood: eep
• [12:15] Soft Linden: This should be imported and fixed to be consistent between what scripts, the system, and the edit dialogs allow
• [12:15] Squirrel Wood: such things need to be brought in line then
• [12:16] Aric Linden: yep. let's take it. Alexa, this one can just get assigned to triage directly
• [12:16] Soft Linden: I wouldn't be surprised if the problem here were that all the details aren't fitting in one packet where they're expected to with a long name. But that's symptomatic of the core problem.
• [12:16] Aric Linden: unless you want it, Soft?
• [12:16] Soft Linden: Plate's full, but if you assign it to me I'll add it notes and send it on to *triage*
• [12:16] Aric Linden: eggscellent
• [12:16] Alexa Linden: ok
• [12:16] Aric Linden: sounds great. It seems a little too big for blacklight
• [12:17] Aric Linden: but i think that you've suggested a nice start.
• [12:17] Harleen Gretzky: That may break some things, ppl use teh fact that scripts can store more info in the description for permant storage on child prims
• [12:17] Aric Linden: yes. that's been discussed re: this in various situations
• [12:17] Soft Linden: It'd be up to whoever takes this to do some research, search the database for how common that is, etc.
• [12:17] Soft Linden: But yeah, you do make a good point, Harleen.
• [12:18] Aric Linden: but I like the idea of seeing how far off we are from consistency
• [12:18] Nika Talaj: *S* I know I do it.
• [12:18] Aric Linden: looks at Nika
• [12:18] Nika Talaj: Store data in the description.
• [12:18] Boroondas Gupte: are there some specs that would tell non-lindens what the expected acceptable lenght would be?
• [12:18] Aric Linden: Boroondas, not yet, that seems to me to be part of the scope of discovery on solving this issue
• [12:19] Squirrel Wood: the official length is 256 bytes as far as I know
• [12:19] Soft Linden: Boroondas - we're moving in the direction of standardizing and documenting this kind of thing, but I've not seen this one anywhere yet.
• [12:19] Aric Linden: Squirrel, you're right, but it's inconsistently enforced
• [12:19] Kerry Giha: I think it is a usefull thing because if the script is reset the data isn't lost
• [12:19] Soft Linden: Right. If we do something to preserve existing content, it'd hardly be the first time.
• [12:20] Squirrel Wood: yep. though consensus is to not trust any more than 256 bytes to be stored safely when taking into inventory and rezzing out again
• [12:20] Squirrel Wood: also, if you store more than like, 1024 bytes, only the first 1024 bytes or so is returned by llGetObjectDesc
• [12:20] Saijanai Kuhn: The fact is, you can use that descr field to cause havok with other scripts throughout a sim
• [12:21] Saijanai Kuhn: an extremely virulent example can crash a sim when it is selected in the client and bug-reported
• [12:21] Soft Linden: If you've got comments like this and want to guarantee the fixer sees them - please please add them to jira comments.
• [12:21] Soft Linden: That's one place you know the person fixing this will look.
• [12:22] Aric Linden: or so we hope.
• [12:22] Aric Linden: grins
• [12:22] Soft Linden: If they don't, at least you'll all have a good reason to tweak them over it. :>
• [12:22] Aric Linden: lols
• [12:22] Aric Linden: Exactly
• [12:23] Squirrel Wood: imagine a couple 100 objects shuffling description data between them...
• [12:23] Aric Linden: So let's move along: Squirrel, you had something you wanted to raise?
• [12:23] Squirrel Wood: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1134 <= that is the Optional parcel/estate wide autoreturn of all items someone has rezzed when that person is banned from the parcel/estate. feature request ^^
• [12:24] Boroondas Gupte: sounds good :-)
• [12:24] Day Oh: I don't know how related this is, but presently the estate tools can't return anything that isn't scripted, regardless
• [12:24] Aric Linden: Soft, do you know if that's correct?
• [12:25] Aric Linden: This seems like a really good thing to me
• [12:25] Alexa Linden: agrees
• [12:25] Soft Linden: Aric - Seems like a good idea. A little bit risky, but it would definitely save #support a ton of time
• [12:25] Soft Linden: They do quite a bit of mop up even on estates.
• [12:25] Aric Linden: where does the risk lie?
• [12:26] Squirrel Wood: risky it may be.. which is why it should be optional... mayhaps have the sim owner explicitely enable it
• [12:26] Alexa Linden: returning half a building
• [12:26] Saijanai Kuhn: needs an undo feature...
• [12:26] Alexa Linden: if something is built with a resident AND the banned person
• [12:26] Soft Linden: The impact of returning thousands of objects at once from potentially dozens of regions - could turn into really heavy, focussed dataserver load.
• [12:26] Soft Linden: If it's being used on a bunch of estates at once during a goo attack, for example.
• [12:26] Saijanai Kuhn: could be a new form of attack
• [12:26] Aric Linden: um, undo implies that we'd hold it all in memory for some period of time. I'm not sure we're up for that
• [12:27] Squirrel Wood: goo objects you usually just want to get rid of.... delete.
• [12:27] Saijanai Kuhn: I was 95% joking because of that issue.
• [12:27] Day Oh: What about just having a way to return all of a single user's objects?
• [12:27] Saijanai Kuhn: it would be a like a partial rollback of a sim
• [12:27] Soft Linden: Right. Something like that, support might just delete all of the owner's objects instead of returning. We can't give delete to estate owners, though.
• [12:27] Soft Linden: Not on a scale like that.
• [12:27] Aric Linden: agrees
• [12:28] Soft Linden: If it goes to triage, the right people will see and discuss this though.
• [12:28] Alexa Linden: true
• [12:28] Soft Linden: 32 votes - is that enough to warrant it?
• [12:28] Aric Linden: agreed: let's make it so
• [12:28] Alexa Linden: assign to?
• [12:28] Aric Linden: triage please
• [12:28] Alexa Linden: done
• [12:28] Aric Linden: Soft is right, we'll figure it out there
• [12:29] Aric Linden: so that exhausts today's agenda
• [12:29] Soft Linden: Yow!
• [12:29] Aric Linden: sadly
• [12:29] Squirrel Wood: Aye
• [12:29] Soft Linden: Well, those links go to open high voted bugs
• [12:29] Soft Linden: For example
• [12:29] Soft Linden: Can work off of that - [1]
• [12:29] Aric Linden: jinx, I was just typing that
• [12:29] Aric Linden: let's go for it.
• [12:30] Squirrel Wood: looks good and even loaded fast ;)
• [12:30] Aric Linden: SVC-674 is next
• [12:30] Aric Linden: SVC-674
• [12:30] Aric Linden: argh. sorry
• [12:30] Soft Linden: VWR-3560 ?
• [12:31] Boroondas Gupte: shall I add them to the wiki?
• [12:31] Aric Linden: yep, VWR-3560 is next
• [12:31] Aric Linden: thanks Soft
• [12:31] Squirrel Wood: yep.. should be mutable or at least ignoreable
• [12:32] Soft Linden: Yeah, this should be mutable. Anything that can pop up stuff on your UI from anothe resi's script should be mutable.
• [12:32] Soft Linden: (Except payment - because I don't care of someone griefs me with L$!)
• [12:32] Aric Linden: ok. let's take it
• [12:32] Squirrel Wood: Payment I would like to see an option to deny high sums
• [12:32] Alexa Linden: triage?
• [12:32] Aric Linden: yes please, Alexa
• [12:32] Alexa Linden: done
• [12:33] Aric Linden: vwr-3109 is next
• [12:33] Squirrel Wood: I guess the snapping is between the 3d shape and the impostor or whatever it is called
• [12:34] Soft Linden: This could go straight to the Windlight guys - they might leave it alone if they're still looking at the alternate plant system
• [12:34] Soft Linden: But they'd certainly be the only team that would look at it this early on
• [12:34] Aric Linden: I'd like to know if Narqus still feels this way. The windlight folks just made some changes to tree rendering
• [12:34] Aric Linden: Soft: they know it's an issue. It's being tracked and discussed in the WL group.
• [12:35] Alexa Linden: ok - I'mm import and assing to WL
• [12:35] Squirrel Wood: the current windlight viewer still "snaps" between the lower/higher detail objects
• [12:35] Alexa Linden: I'll*
• [12:35] Saijanai Kuhn: Wanted to remind everyone who isn't a member of AW Groupies, our first meeting of the year is tomorrow at 9:30 AM SL time
• [12:35] Soft Linden: Is there an existing issue it could be attached to then?
• [12:35] Squirrel Wood: I guess he wants to see a somewhat smooth crossfade at that point
• [12:35] Alexa Linden: I can try to find one soft
• [12:35] Aric Linden: yes. some of the changes are going into a later release
• [12:35] Aric Linden: Thanks Alexa.
• [12:35] Saijanai Kuhn: IM me for an invite, its on Zha's private island so group membership is required to get there
• [12:35] Aric Linden: VWR-1402 is next
• [12:36] Squirrel Wood: Mmmm... black eyes
• [12:36] Squirrel Wood: didn't we have a black eye issue lately ?
• [12:36] Aric Linden: If I can work it out, Saijanai, i'm going to try and attend. I'll ping you if I can make it
• [12:37] Aric Linden: Yes, Squirrel. In fact, this seems to be a reprise of that issue
• [12:37] Aric Linden: it's already got comments by alexa
• [12:37] Saijanai Kuhn: great. Our topic will likely be documentation issues and how that affects all aspects of SL
• [12:37] Aric Linden: documentation? we don' need no steekin' documentation
• [12:37] Aric Linden:  :-)
• [12:37] Saijanai Kuhn: is speaking as someone who has been trying to document the procols for several months now and treading water when he is lucky
• [12:38] Boroondas Gupte: I think we had something with gray eyes, lately, not black
• [12:38] Saijanai Kuhn: protocols*
• [12:38] Aric Linden: I don't see a repro in this bug
• [12:38] Aric Linden: I'm not sure what we'd do with it if we take it in
• [12:38] Aric Linden: looks at Sai, you know i'm kidding, right? I'm a big documentation fan
• [12:38] Soft Linden: No. But Be Holder says it happened twice. Asking for graphics card details could be helpful here - we can see if it's an issue with a certain GL implementation
• [12:39] Soft Linden: It's weird if none of us are seeing it, but this person can make it happen more than once.
• [12:39] Saijanai Kuhn: Aric, I know you are. My latest goal, is to populate this table and get some ptyno scripts working with it: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/ImprovedInstantMessage
• [12:39] Aric Linden: Maybe the grey eyes are getting corrupted?
• [12:39] Day Oh: I can't tell whether they're saying anyone else can see their eyes are black too
• [12:39] Saijanai Kuhn: python* scripts
• [12:39] Soft Linden: Good question, Day Oh!
• [12:39] Saijanai Kuhn: Group IM turns out to be insanely hard to get a handle on
• [12:39] Aric Linden: Let's ask for more info?
• [12:40] Saijanai Kuhn: for some reason...
• [12:40] Alexa Linden: I see this happen every once in a blue moon
• [12:40] Alexa Linden: I change eyes
• [12:40] Soft Linden: I'd vote needs more info, with system info, and whether others see the problem too. That'd tell us if it's rebaking (everyone would see) or just a local rendering issue
• [12:40] Alexa Linden: then change back a while later and it's fine
• [12:40] Aric Linden: jinx
• [12:40] Boroondas Gupte: me believes it to be a problem of avatar texturebaking
• [12:40] Alexa Linden: yup
• [12:40] Alexa Linden: I agree
• [12:41] Alexa Linden: the eyes are never perminently stuck black or gray
• [12:41] Aric Linden: SVC-389 is up next
• [12:41] Squirrel Wood: changes to the prim shape have always unsat avatars
• [12:41] Alexa Linden: yup
• [12:42] Aric Linden: nods
• [12:42] Soft Linden: Naw, not always, but for some time.
• [12:42] Aric Linden: but mayhaps the new havok has made this better?
• [12:42] Soft Linden: I dont think this would change without a good reason.
• [12:43] Squirrel Wood: I guess since the avatar is treated as part of the linkset it should not unsit when a prim in the set changes shape...
• [12:43] Soft Linden: This is at 13 votes. Perhaps ask for more examples of why it's needed and hold off on enough votes to justify pulling a dev off another task?
• [12:43] Squirrel Wood: as the rest isn't getting delinked either
• [12:43] Aric Linden: We do know there are occasional probs with sitting tho
• [12:43] Boroondas Gupte: /
• [12:43] Aric Linden: But I like Softs suggestion very much
• [12:44] Aric Linden: anyone else?
• [12:44] Soft Linden: If it got imported at the current vote count, triage would retire it to someday-maybe immediately.
• [12:44] Squirrel Wood: I'm with Soft on this ^^
• [12:44] Alexa Linden: ok
• [12:44] Alexa Linden: I'll add that
• [12:44] Aric Linden: yep. agreed soft
• [12:45] Aric Linden: VWR-3857 is up
• [12:45] Aric Linden: is afraid we're way off the record today
• [12:45] Aric Linden: must be the change of seasons
• [12:45] Squirrel Wood: We shall set a record the next time then :)
• [12:45] Aric Linden: VWR-3857 is a known issue
• [12:46] Alexa Linden: haha
• [12:46] Aric Linden: hugs Squirrel for positive attitude
• [12:46] Aric Linden: hoorah for positivity
• [12:46] Aric Linden: VWR-3857 is getting worked on a number of fronts, I'm not sure that importing this will add any fuel to the fire.
• [12:47] Soft Linden: This is legit. As Alissa says - there's no fallback specified for missing monospace glyphs.
• [12:47] Aric Linden: we just need to make the DB smarter, I think.
• [12:47] Squirrel Wood: Fix pending ?
• [12:47] Day Oh: I don't believe they would compile o_O I know Nicholaz has a patch for making them compile
• [12:47] Soft Linden: VWR-3857 should be imported. That's gotta be really annoying for i18n scripting!
• [12:47] Aric Linden: Squirrel, sadly, i'm not sure it's fair to say fix pending. Rather closer to the truth is we know about the problem and are discussing various fixes
• [12:47] Day Oh: I'm probably off
• [12:48] Soft Linden: Aric: Now it's a known issue with a patch attached :)
• [12:48] Aric Linden: Ok. Let's take it per Soft's passion.
• [12:48] Alexa Linden: assign to?
• [12:48] Aric Linden: please assign it to triage
• [12:48] Alexa Linden: ok
• [12:48] Aric Linden: and we'll figure out where it goes from there
• [12:48] Bridie Linden: nods
• [12:48] Aric Linden: afaik, no studio is actively engaged on this right now.
• [12:49] Aric Linden: is sad to think about it
• [12:49] Soft Linden: We had one of the Blacklighters doing some Asian font work recently, trying to remember which
• [12:49] Aric Linden: VWR-1286
• [12:49] Aric Linden: it was Simon
• [12:49] Bridie Linden: Simon
• [12:49] Soft Linden: Right!
• [12:49] Aric Linden: that was about 3 months ago
• [12:49] Soft Linden: Time flies :(
• [12:49] Aric Linden: he's moved off all iso 8 stuff because he's working on havok
• [12:50] Aric Linden: nods at Soft. yeah, but think how much fun you're having
• [12:50] Aric Linden: VWR-1286
• [12:50] Squirrel Wood: 1286... someone was working on a patch for that methinks
• [12:50] Squirrel Wood: dale glass if I remember right
• [12:51] Bridie Linden: PJIRA not happy...
• [12:51] Day Oh: [2]
• [12:51] Aric Linden: did pjira just bomb for anyone else?
• [12:51] Bridie Linden: nods
• [12:51] Alexa Linden: yup
• [12:51] Aric Linden: jinx bridie
• [12:51] Day Oh: Google's cache
• [12:51] Alexa Linden: ka-boom
• [12:51] Saijanai Kuhn: wasn't there a handy clickable object to call up the webpages here just a few minutes ago?
• [12:51] Squirrel Wood: google cache refuses to load
• [12:52] Saijanai Kuhn: did someone move it or has it gone invis in my viewer?
• [12:52] Aric Linden: well, we can discuss fun holiday parties while we wait
• [12:52] Alexa Linden: hahahha
• [12:52] Aric Linden: anyone do anything really special?
• [12:52] Alexa Linden: I met Torley in RL
• [12:52] Alexa Linden: O.O
• [12:52] Alexa Linden: does the happy dance
• [12:52] Saijanai Kuhn: i learned how to pull hair out of my head one folicle at a time...
• [12:52] Aric Linden: now That's special
• [12:53] Aric Linden: (meeting torley)
• [12:53] Squirrel Wood: Oh.. 'twas Gigs who worked on a patch
• [12:53] Saijanai Kuhn: Group IM (nuff said)
• [12:53] Aric Linden: hair follicle stuff is just TMI
• [12:53] Alexa Linden: hahahahahaha
• [12:53] Soft Linden: I can't load the patch to look. A 24k patch to change camer behavior is spooky to me
• [12:53] Squirrel Wood: Torley = Yayzerama
• [12:53] Alexa Linden: :D
• [12:53] Alexa Linden: all his melony goodness
• [12:54] Aric Linden: Soft, I agree with you. plus it appears that we've just introduced some camera oddness in the recent release branch
• [12:54] Aric Linden: Alexa, does he wear pink and green IRL?
• [12:54] Bridie Linden: mail sent about PJIRA
• [12:54] Aric Linden: Thanks Bridie.
• [12:54] Alexa Linden: no
• [12:54] Bridie Linden: np
• [12:54] Squirrel Wood: last comment... Gigs Taggart - 22/Nov/07 08:02 AM I'll see if I can port my patch forward to windlight soon.
• [12:55] Alexa Linden: bridie, did you see any pin k& green?
• [12:55] Bridie Linden: grins
• [12:55] Bridie Linden: not tellin'
• [12:55] Aric Linden: Thanks Sai
• [12:55] Aric Linden: laughs
• [12:55] Aric Linden: that's innuendo TMI
• [12:55] Squirrel Wood: [3]
• [12:55] Bridie Linden: always sees pink and green
• [12:55] Bridie Linden: no innuendo
• [12:56] Bridie Linden:  :)
• [12:56] Soft Linden: JIRA's just come back for me
• [12:57] Alexa Linden: lol
• [12:57] Alexa Linden: right at the end it works
• [12:57] Aric Linden: moi aussi
• [12:57] Bridie Linden: My email worked!
• [12:57] Soft Linden: Our hosting company hella fears Bridie!
• [12:57] Day Oh: Oh dear, first time I've been able to log into it all day
• [12:57] Aric Linden: everyone hella fears bridie
• [12:57] Alexa Linden: LOL
• [12:57] Soft Linden: They've got this klaxon that sounds whenever her name appears on an email.
• [12:57] Aric Linden: laughs
• [12:57] Squirrel Wood: hehe
• [12:57] Alexa Linden: I'm skeered of Bridie O.o
• [12:58] Bridie Linden: mwah ha ha
• [12:58] Aric Linden: well, I think we'll wrap
• [12:58] Bridie Linden: grins...evil-ly
• [12:58] Aric Linden: as always, thanks to all who attended and participated
• [12:58] Soft Linden: Thanks thanks thanks!