Bug triage/2008-12-22/Transcript

Agenda

[12:03] Alexa Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/Monday_Agenda
[12:03] Phillip Vought: Just promise me .. no sanfrancisco pizza ;)
[12:03] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-10971
[12:03] Kona Linden: VBO enabled by default on ATi Radeon 2900 XT causes frame rate (FPS) to change wildly
[12:03] Alexa Linden: this is imported
[12:03] Gordon Wendt: no soft today?
[12:03] Gordon Wendt: Soft imported it after I added it to the list it seems
[12:03] Alexa Linden: weee!
[12:04] Alexa Linden: see, you picked a winner ;)
[12:04] Kona Linden: lol
[12:04] Gordon Wendt: of course he couldn't take 1 extra minute to remove it from the list
[12:04] Prospero Linden: Soft is around, in other meetings
[12:04] Prospero Linden: oh!
[12:04] Prospero Linden: He's on his way
[12:04] Squirrel Wood: Soft has been imported into the viewer
[12:04] Kona Linden: lol
[12:04] Bridie Linden: lol
[12:05] Kona Linden: Soft can comment more on that if necessary when he arrives
[12:05] Kona Linden: was that him?
[12:05] Prospero Linden: it was
[12:05] Alexa Linden: yup
[12:05] Kona Linden: LOL
[12:05] Kona Linden: Soft
[12:05] Soft Linden: Sorry I'm late for triage. I was in triage. (Which came after another triage!)
[12:05] Alexa Linden: were your ears burning soft?
[12:05] Kona Linden: we were just commenting on VBO enabled by default on ATi Radeon 2900 XT causes frame rate (FPS) to change wildly
[12:05] Prospero Linden: Soft needs a triage triage
[12:05] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-10971
[12:06] Soft Linden: Didn't that get imported already?
[12:06] Alexa Linden: yup :)
[12:06] Gellan Glenelg: a trio of triages? that's getting as bad as aric alliiteration!
[12:06] Squirrel Wood: states that Lindens have to attend way too many meetings.
[12:06] Kona Linden: Have anything else to add to that, Soft?
[12:06] Gordon Wendt: Soft, yes we were just saying that you imported it right after I added it to the fast track
[12:06] Prospero Linden: Squirrel : I think the number of meetings an organization has is the cube of the number of people in the organization :)
[12:06] Soft Linden: Nope - we only just imported it and gave it to the render team last week. I gave it major priority, so they'll see it soon.
[12:06] Alexa Linden: great minds think alike
[12:06] Kona Linden: Squirrel, its what happens when a company grows to meet demand...hehehe
[12:07] Kona Linden: kk, then onto Hot by Vote
[12:07] Soft Linden: Yus
[12:07] Kona Linden: # SVC-3530[c
[12:07] Phillip Vought: if anyone says 'communications plan" I'll scream :)
[12:07] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3530
[12:07] Gordon Wendt: ooh, this is a fun one
[12:07] Squirrel Wood: communications plan :p
[12:07] Phillip Vought: screams!
[12:07] Soft Linden: Seriously though - Monday = 3 hours of triage meetings. By the end of the day we are crawling with bugs!
[12:08] Alexa Linden: starts to itch
[12:08] Phillip Vought: So beat the coders harder so they make less errors?
[12:08] Soft Linden: Oof - did http requests -ever- pass to the new region?
[12:08] Kona Linden: Where's the RAID...
[12:08] Gordon Wendt: This seems to be another issue from the 1.25 rollout
[12:08] Gordon Wendt: has anyone created a 1.25 failed rollout issues meta issue?
[12:08] Gordon Wendt: speaking of crawling with bugs
[12:09] Prospero Linden: I'm pinging some folks internally re: SVC-3530
[12:09] Kona Linden: kk
[12:09] Gordon Wendt: Seems to be a perennial issue with updates in general for the last 5-10 updates that httprequest breaks
[12:09] Prospero Linden: Unfortunately, this doesn't have a clean-room repro
[12:10] Alexa Linden: mark with triaged date?
[12:10] Prospero Linden: That is -- no simple demonstration of the problem, just a statement of the problem with a given system
[12:10] Kona Linden: yeah
[12:10] Prospero Linden: It may be related
[12:10] Alexa Linden: k
[12:10] Prospero Linden: I will import this and link it into our 1.25.3 internal JIRA
[12:10] Prospero Linden: may be related to the "missing name" bug
[12:10] Kona Linden: k, thanks Prospero
[12:10] Soft Linden: Hmm - the new http code is setting the accept: header on all traffic. I wonder if that includes llHttp* outbound traffic.
[12:11] Kona Linden: wanna comment that on the bug, Soft?
[12:11] Soft Linden: If so, that would break a lot of scripts. Odds are a lot of external site don't set useful/acceptable types
[12:11] Gordon Wendt: idk, I know there have been some header issues though with http traffixc
[12:11] Gordon Wendt: *traffic
[12:11] Kona Linden: kk, so triage or need more info?
[12:11] Gellan Glenelg: SVC-3441 definitely had some "missing name from http headers" - so depending on whether that value is used by their combat system, could be the same bug
[12:11] Prospero Linden: Yeah, there has been
[12:11] Prospero Linden: accept-headers
[12:11] Prospero Linden: we traditionally did them wrong
[12:12] Prospero Linden: with 1.25 we started doing them right
[12:12] Prospero Linden: the transition has been muy painful
[12:12] Soft Linden: It's worth taking in
[12:12] Prospero Linden: importing
[12:12] Kona Linden: kk
[12:12] Alexa Linden: k
[12:12] Kona Linden: next buggie
[12:12] Kona Linden: # SVC-3556[c
[12:12] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3556
[12:12] Gordon Wendt: didn't know if this was more a bug report or a feature request
[12:12] Gordon Wendt: or both
[12:12] Soft Linden: I'd add Kelly as a watcher when importing the last one
[12:12] Alexa Linden: right, becuase you temporarily leave the sim to come back to it, correct?
[12:13] Phillip Vought: sounds like a bug to me
[12:13] Gordon Wendt: It's a good point though, the teleport system blocks you from entering a full sim for good reason to hold the av limit but it doesn't make sense that it stops you from going around within a sim
[12:13] Phillip Vought: its a reasonable assumption
[12:13] Soft Linden: Yeah, this is a straightforward bug.
[12:13] Kona Linden: triage then
[12:13] Soft Linden: You don't actually leave the sim, but odds are the tp code is looking to see if the target region is full, when it should skip that for local teleport.
[12:13] Soft Linden: Would import for core triage.
[12:13] Kona Linden: yep
[12:14] Alexa Linden: ok core it goes
[12:14] Kona Linden: kk, next buggie
[12:14] Kona Linden: # VWR-7204[c
[12:14] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-7204
[12:14] Alexa Linden: seems like a dup
[12:14] Prospero Linden: I predict that this is just part of the general "texture loading is slow and sometimes gets stuck" issue we have
[12:14] Gordon Wendt: hmm, thougth I removed VWR-7204 from the list
[12:15] Phillip Vought: yup.. I agree Prospero.. and I havent seen it in the latest clients
[12:15] Gordon Wendt: if sculpts are timing out that's an issue though
[12:15] Phillip Vought: its from may
[12:15] Kona Linden: hmmm...this was in May...
[12:15] Gordon Wendt: I'd suggest close suggesting that they create an issue specifically about sculpts timing out if that's still an issue
[12:15] Alexa Linden: still a problem?
[12:15] Kona Linden: I think we would've heard more on this by now...?
[12:15] Alexa Linden: nmi?
[12:16] Phillip Vought: I vote for another "when's http texure pipeline coming" comment
[12:16] Prospero Linden: The texture problem isn't completely solve yet
[12:16] Soft Linden: I can't find it - there was work or discussion of work on changing sculpty textures to load before regular textures.
[12:16] Kona Linden: maybe comment for more information or ask if they're still seeing this issue?
[12:16] Alexa Linden: ok - will do
[12:16] Phillip Vought: close as fixed
[12:16] Phillip Vought: this was an old problem with the prior client
[12:16] Alexa Linden: true
[12:16] Kona Linden: k, next buggy then...
[12:17] Kona Linden: # SVC-3543[c
[12:17] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3543
[12:17] Prospero Linden: I could have sworn I saw this same issue on the internal jira triage last week
[12:17] Soft Linden: I know this exists internally - searching
[12:17] Gordon Wendt: seems like a pretty serious bug
[12:17] Soft Linden: Yeah - you can link it to DEV-24199
[12:18] Alexa Linden: will do
[12:18] Alexa Linden: thank you
[12:18] Kona Linden: k, next buggy...
[12:18] Prospero Linden: Alexa : that one already has a pJIRA URL so add it in comments and such
[12:18] Kona Linden: # SVC-2797[c
[12:18] Prospero Linden: unless internal JIRAs can have multiple pJIRA partners?
[12:18] Alexa Linden: ok
[12:18] Soft Linden: Sure thought this was fixed...
[12:18] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2797.
[12:18] Alexa Linden: no, they can't
[12:19] Harleen Gretzky: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2519 is similar but when avatar has home set to the sim instead of a non-exsistent or offline sim
[12:19] Prospero Linden: I thought SVC-2797 was fixed long ago
[12:19] Prospero Linden: comment 20 Dec indicates it's still broken
[12:19] Gordon Wendt: ask for a script sample?
[12:19] Prospero Linden: Should we ask for a repro? Object and script?
[12:19] Gellan Glenelg: i see that rotating
[12:20] Prospero Linden: Sure looks like it's working to me :)
[12:20] Prospero Linden: Excuse me while I hurl
[12:20] Kona Linden: hmmmm
[12:20] Gellan Glenelg: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3504 is similar (and recent)
[12:20] Kona Linden: maybe more linked objects other than just two?
[12:20] Kona Linden: guess not
[12:20] Kona Linden: lol
[12:20] Alexa Linden: lol
[12:20] Gellan Glenelg: is it broken for particular GPU/drivers?
[12:20] Prospero Linden: somebody build an orrey!
[12:21] Kona Linden: oh, and on a MAC too
[12:21] Gordon Wendt: on SVC-3504 that you linked up somebody may want to remind Renee riva about the TOS section on capying and pasting chat logs
[12:21] Kona Linden: eeek, and on FX 5200...that's not gonna be pretty
[12:21] Alexa Linden: thanks gordon, I'll take it
[12:21] Prospero Linden: WRPT SVC-2797 : needs more info
[12:21] Prospero Linden: ?
[12:21] Gordon Wendt: Alexa, seems to be a willing person but still
[12:21] Gellan Glenelg: well, she misunderstood my request to "copy and paste from help, about second life"... I didn't mind
[12:21] Kona Linden: yeha, I say needs more info
[12:22] Soft Linden: Yeah, I'd do needs more info - ask them to send an object, or tell us where we can see an affected object in-world.
[12:22] Object: Hello,: Avatar!
[12:22] Kona Linden: k, next bugyy
[12:22] Kona Linden: Patches...
[12:22] Kona Linden: * VWR-11138[c
[12:22] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11138
[12:22] Soft Linden: Sweetness and light - yeah, we can take that right in for maint-viewer
[12:24] Alexa Linden: ok
[12:24] Kona Linden: hmm
[12:24] Soft Linden: bling off D:
[12:24] Alexa Linden: my eyes!
[12:24] Prospero Linden: wtf?
[12:24] Kona Linden: nice
[12:24] Gellan Glenelg: thanks, gordon
[12:24] Gordon Wendt: self destructing object
[12:24] Harleen Gretzky: For these llTargetOmega bugs we should make sure they have Advanced->Network->Velocity Interpolate Objects enabled
[12:25] Alexa Linden: I'll ask that harleen
[12:25] Prospero Linden: Does that matter for targetOmega?
[12:25] Prospero Linden: TargetOmega is entirely client side
[12:25] Soft Linden: Actually, it would be helpful to ask if it's physical too. That function works very differently for physical vs static objects.
[12:25] Prospero Linden: So no interpolation needed
[12:25] Harleen Gretzky: It turns it off for only your client
[12:25] Soft Linden: For physical objects, it's sim side. For static objects, it's viewer side.
[12:25] Prospero Linden: That is -- I thought velocity interpolate objects had to do with positions, and with doing updates between what the client hears from the server
[12:25] Prospero Linden: Soft : ah!
[12:26] Prospero Linden: wants a llTargetOmega that's server side but for non-physical objects, so he can be sure everybody is seeing the same thing :)
[12:26] Kona Linden: I take it we're not talking about https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11138
[12:26] Soft Linden: And if it's physical, the issue wouldn't surprise me. Farther physical objects deliberately get fewer updates to reduce bandwidth.
[12:26] Kona Linden: lol
[12:27] Soft Linden: Yeah, it would be nice if the rotations had some kind of a shared clock reference, at least.
[12:27] Prospero Linden: Soft : I've cheated it by using llTargetOmega plus a timer llSetRot every second or few seconds
[12:27] Soft Linden: clever
[12:27] Prospero Linden: Which mostly works, but can lead to jerking and lurching with the update
[12:28] Kona Linden: K, so we ready to go onto Patches?
[12:28] Prospero Linden: boldly go!
[12:28] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11138
[12:28] Kona Linden: heheh
[12:28] Kona Linden: I know nada about Visual Stuido
[12:28] Soft Linden: So last issue is Needs More Info, asking for (a) a specific object and (b) physical or static?
[12:28] Alexa Linden: k
[12:28] Soft Linden: This patch can be taken in.
[12:28] Alexa Linden: ok
[12:28] Soft Linden: viewer triage happiness.
[12:29] Kona Linden: yay
[12:29] Kona Linden: Misc Pool...
[12:29] Kona Linden: * SVC-1926[c
[12:29] Prospero Linden: hrm
[12:29] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1926
[12:29] Kona Linden: from ol Gigs
[12:30] Gordon Wendt: another not quite a bug, not quite a feature request
[12:30] Prospero Linden: I think this is a feature request
[12:30] Soft Linden: Yeah. It asks for a change to a designed behavior.
[12:30] Prospero Linden: "Disable Camera Constraints" = allow you to see more clearly that culling is based on avatar position
[12:30] Alexa Linden: I can move
[12:30] Kona Linden: kk
[12:30] Soft Linden: We could run this by Doug and all, but I'd be surprsied if it changed. Updating the interest list based on camera movement would result in a LOT of expensive interest list thrashing.
[12:30] Gordon Wendt: old one it seems too, I didn't notice the date
[12:30] Alexa Linden: anything else on this?
[12:31] Prospero Linden: I have to admit I'd prefer it if it were based on camera position, as it's less surprsiing that way (you see stuff based on where you look), but the first comment re: bandwidth is perhaps real?
[12:31] Kona Linden: I do understand his frustration though...run into the same issues building...etc
[12:31] Alexa Linden: yup
[12:31] Prospero Linden: yeah
[12:31] Kona Linden: so move it then?
[12:31] Alexa Linden: ok
[12:31] Alexa Linden: any thoughts of importing?
[12:31] Gordon Wendt: The whole fact that it's largest to smallest in terms of objects is annoying too
[12:32] Soft Linden: No move - it's still SVC-. But it is a feature request, not a bug.
[12:32] Prospero Linden: is not sure how hard it would be to implement this.
[12:32] Soft Linden: Oh, or do you ahve to use move to change the type?
[12:32] Alexa Linden: no, I can just change
[12:32] Kona Linden: kk
[12:32] Gordon Wendt: Soft, even us lowly peons can change bugs to feature requests and visa versa
[12:32] Soft Linden: If this is imported, it will get won't-fix immediately.
[12:32] Prospero Linden: This is both viewer and server changes
[12:32] Alexa Linden: ok
[12:32] Kona Linden: next...
[12:32] Soft Linden: I'd leave it out there for discussion.
[12:32] Gordon Wendt: although only a select few residents i think have move privileges
[12:33] Kona Linden: # VWR-10592[c
[12:33] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-10592
[12:33] Soft Linden: This one came up recently internally - I'll see if I can find it
[12:33] Kona Linden: kk
[12:33] Soft Linden: Pretty sure the resolution was that this was a way-unsupported feature, though.
[12:33] Prospero Linden: Yeah, I remember this coming up internally; but I thought it was an import
[12:33] Kona Linden: Soft, I believe you're right on that'
[12:34] Soft Linden: Yeah, internally it's DEV-3633 and "won't fix"
[12:34] Prospero Linden: Although....
[12:34] Khyota Wulluf: hullo guys, forgot we had a triage today
[12:34] Prospero Linden: I seem to remember Moss having an idea for how to fix it, and I vaguely remember him perhaps even fixing it?
[12:34] Kona Linden: Hi Khyota
[12:34] Gordon Wendt: Something to revisit maybe then Soft? A fairly large number of residents use multiple viewer instances
[12:35] Alexa Linden: so I will link to dev-3633
[12:35] Kona Linden: kk
[12:35] Kona Linden: next...
[12:35] Kona Linden: # VWR-10234[c
[12:35] Soft Linden: Yeah. I'd link it up - if it gets a lot of votes and gets reopened, it'd get revisited.
[12:35] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-10234
[12:36] Gordon Wendt: Ella requested more info and there's been no response to that yet
[12:36] Prospero Linden: DEV-22957 is related : Alexa, can you link this as related to DEV-3633?
[12:36] Kona Linden: Running an Intel GMA X3100...we don't support those cards
[12:37] Gordon Wendt: never do it seems :)
[12:37] Kona Linden: hmmm...but claims crashing on GMA 950...
[12:37] Alexa Linden: I am linking vwr-10592 to 3633 prospero
[12:37] Kona Linden: which we do support
[12:37] Gordon Wendt: I can imagine Kona, quick someone reported a graphics card issue, lets get it off the supported list before anyone notices
[12:38] Prospero Linden: Is GMA 950 or GMA X3100 newer?
[12:38] Kona Linden: let's wait for further info
[12:38] Alexa Linden: ok
[12:38] Kona Linden: X3100 I think is newer
[12:38] Soft Linden: yes
[12:38] Prospero Linden: Have we made the decision not to support newer Intel graphics cards for now?
[12:39] Kona Linden: I want to see if he gets the same results in the new Apple update
[12:39] Prospero Linden: Or is it just "too new"?
[12:39] Gordon Wendt: Kona, I'll keep an eye on it for updates
[12:39] Prospero Linden: Yah... the new apple update is supposed to have fixed some video card drivers. I know the nvidia card in my mac seems to be behaving better
[12:39] Soft Linden: I don't think we exclude Mac Intel cards the way we do Windows ones, do we? They don't share the same driver issues.
[12:40] Kona Linden: Prospero, we're not moving forward with Intel cards till we have further development in working with them...we had a rep, but it appears Intel hasn't provided much feedback months back...assuming things are on hold
[12:40] Kona Linden: till then, nada
[12:40] Prospero Linden: OK
[12:40] Soft Linden: Ha - Khyota - everyone needs such a group title. I'm making that the new resident default!
[12:40] Kona Linden: k next buggy
[12:40] Prospero Linden: Default for EVERY group, instead of "Member"
[12:40] Soft Linden: awesome
[12:40] Kona Linden: MISC-1952[c
[12:41] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-1952
[12:41] Prospero Linden: did we premeditatively close off first look isle?
[12:41] Soft Linden: Actually, meant to JIRA that. Would be nice if the "Member" role were just the group name by default.
[12:41] Alexa Linden: I believe so
[12:41] Soft Linden: We don't have a first look right now - would sure make sense.
[12:41] Kona Linden: I'm with Alexa on this
[12:41] Prospero Linden: Soft : There's the SLim first look....
[12:41] Soft Linden: I didn't realize it was out!
[12:42] Gordon Wendt: Soft, this is a procedural one
[12:42] Gordon Wendt: this was covered before but never marked
[12:42] Alexa Linden: so expected behavior?
[12:42] Gordon Wendt: so it's on the agenda just to get a lst triaged date and a mark if needed
[12:42] Alexa Linden: and note the sim no longer exists?
[12:42] Kona Linden: yeah, that sounds good
[12:42] Alexa Linden: ok
[12:43] Prospero Linden: Well, the sim does exist, but it's intentionally blocked off
[12:43] Prospero Linden: Anybody can see that it exists on the map
[12:43] Alexa Linden: ok - sim closed?
[12:43] Prospero Linden: yeah
[12:43] Kona Linden: yeah, comment that
[12:43] Gordon Wendt: Soft, I thought the new trend was not doing Firstlooks really anymore and just doing RC's or is that wrong?
[12:43] Gellan Glenelg: I see "First Look Isle" in map search
[12:43] Prospero Linden: Gordon : first looks and RCs have different purposes
[12:43] Prospero Linden: First Look = preview version of a new feature
[12:43] Prospero Linden: Not always going
[12:43] Soft Linden: Yeah, Dan says First Look Isle shouldn't be open.
[12:43] Prospero Linden: RC = final beta of upcoming release
[12:44] Kona Linden: Onto Pre-meeting activity...
[12:44] Alexa Linden: do we have anything noted for the residents that it's closed?
[12:44] Kona Linden: hmmm...good question
[12:44] Prospero Linden: I think the fact that they can't TP there (don't have access) notes that it's closed :)
[12:44] Soft Linden: I'll add that as a comment.
[12:44] Alexa Linden: well ya, but...
[12:44] Alexa Linden: lol
[12:44] Alexa Linden: ok ty
[12:44] Kona Linden: maybe a popup explaining
[12:45] Prospero Linden: When you try to TP, you do get a popup saying "you don't have access to that destination" or some such
[12:45] Alexa Linden: ya, otherwise people will try and try and not know why
[12:45] Kona Linden: VWR-10971[c
[12:45] Gordon Wendt: Prospero, but that could mean anything
[12:45] Gordon Wendt: if one of my alts tries to go to a mentor sim it gets that
[12:45] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-10971
[12:45] Kona Linden: didn't we just see this one...?
[12:45] Alexa Linden: this was imported
[12:45] Gellan Glenelg: "Sorry you do not have access to the teleport destination"
[12:45] Gordon Wendt: you're reading off the log section now
[12:45] Alexa Linden: these are issues that have already been done
[12:45] Kona Linden: gah
[12:45] Kona Linden: lol
[12:46] Prospero Linden: Yeah, I thnk we're done :)
[12:46] Gordon Wendt: Can you keep bugging whoever's working on it about SVC-1459 though?
[12:46] Alexa Linden: yup :)
[12:46] Gordon Wendt: we got a dupe of it on the agenda and it still seems to be vexing people
[12:46] Kona Linden: YAY
[12:46] Gellan Glenelg: grr. now I can't sit
[12:46] Alexa Linden: quick side note - no triage on Wednesday as it's a holiday for us

Bug triage/2008-12-22/Transcript

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