Content Creation Improvement Informal User Group/Archive/July 24th, 2012 Meeting
15:04 | Geenz Spad | alright, now that everyone's here, let's get started |
Anouk Spot | hi! | |
Braydon Randt | i would give my feet .......... :P | |
15:05 | Asha | lol |
Geenz Spad | anyways, a couple of things before we get started | |
Siddean Munro | Can I ask that we try and keep chatter to a minimum, there's a lot to get through today :) | |
Geenz Spad | indeed | |
a couple of things on the agenda will be condensed, since there are a number of major items on there today; everyone can find the agenda here: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation_Improvement_Informal_User_Group | ||
Braydon Randt | thats me told off then .... allready | |
15:06 | Geenz Spad | so, let's get started with JIRA discussion |
any interesting JIRAs today? | ||
Elie Spot | is that alpha issue on the shirt/undershirt being hashed out? | |
15:07 | Geenz Spad | which one in particular? |
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | If I recall, the edge blending issue? | |
Elie Spot | the bald spot we get on the stomach | |
Typhaon Nishi | ar eyou talking about the gap between them? | |
Elie Spot | yes | |
i forget the jira number | ||
Geenz Spad | oh, I haven't had time to look into that one yet; but if I'm correct, it should just be a modification of some local textures | |
I'll look into that one this week | ||
Elie Spot | great! | |
15:08 | none others from me! | |
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | Can you dig up the specific JIRA, Elie? | |
Typhaon Nishi | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SH-2103 | |
Geenz Spad | should be able to get that sent upstream before the shining project gets too far under way | |
Typhaon Nishi | is that the one Elie? | |
Elie Spot | thanks typyh! | |
thats it | ||
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | That's it indeed, Typhaon. | |
Thank you kindly. | ||
Typhaon Nishi | np | |
Geenz Spad | anything else anyone wants to bring up? | |
15:09 | alright the, moving on I suppose | |
today I'd like to bring up a community proposal I've been working on over the weekend for morph targets | ||
15:10 | all of you can find it here: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Morph_Target_Community_Proposal | |
now, a few bits about this: this does not indicate that LL will be doing this, and right now it primarily focuses on clothing | ||
15:11 | there's somethings that are yet to be decided on the proposal, and that's where you guys come in! | |
15:12 | now, there's no way we can pack in the entire discussion of what should be a part of the initial features of it, so instead I'd like people to focus on posting your feedback on the discussion page of that wiki article | |
Elie Spot | good idea! | |
Geenz Spad | there are instructions on how to do that on the wiki, and the best part is there's a bit more posterity than the meetings by doing so | |
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | And more effective recall of any salient points. | |
15:14 | Geenz Spad | now, we are currently focusing on how this can improve clothing, and although I do understand the applications for prims and non-rigged meshes, those should be seen as a later goal |
think of this as putting together the framework | ||
15:15 | Siddean Munro | So from a content creators perspective, what do we need to know/learn? In terms of what we do to our models? |
Typhaon Nishi | what kind of features are you looking for? | |
Geenz Spad | once we have the framework in place, in theory we should be able to improve it later | |
15:16 | any feature that would improve content creators' workflows by using morph targets | |
now, you're all free to ask any questions in the discussion page there, and someone will try their best to answer them | ||
15:17 | Elie Spot | so should we just jot all our thoughts down and post them to this wiki then? |
Geenz Spad | so for now, let's focus the morph target conversation there | |
Siddean Munro | alright | |
Geenz Spad | that's correct Elie | |
Elie Spot | ok | |
Siddean Munro | There's a discussion tab | |
Elie Spot | yes, so posting it here in this meeting is just so we're all aware of it, and how to continue the discussion (via the wiki) | |
15:18 | Geenz Spad | indeed |
Elie Spot | cool | |
Geenz Spad | hopefully this should help with our time constraints as well :P | |
Nal | CAn more than one perrson at a time edit the Discussion page in the wiki? | |
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | We could quite readily get lost in a topic like that otherwise. ;) | |
Geenz Spad | should be able to, not entirely sure | |
Elie Spot | we sure could selkit ;) | |
15:19 | Geenz Spad | but if your topic doesn't post, just try again |
Nal | I'm not certain thats a problem, but I have had problems editing agendas during meetings. | |
Geenz Spad | anyways, there's a couple of subjects we didn't quite get last time | |
so, to start things off: | ||
Build floater improvement discussion (continued from July 17, 2012's meeting) Geenz Spad | ||
15:20 | we touched on this one briefly last time, so to reiterate: | |
the build floater now days is starting to look quite cramped; adding more features to it just results in it looking more and more pressed for space | ||
15:21 | Elie Spot | Maybe this is just me, but even if the build floater was the worst thing in the world, I don't even know how I'd recognize what needed to be changed because I'm so used to it lol |
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | I'm slightly biased towards the pie menu, but that may just be the oldbie in me talking. ;) | |
Elie Spot | I loved the pie menu | |
so friendly | ||
Geenz Spad | because of how cramped it is at this time, certain localizations seemingly break the floater with words actually overflowing out of it | |
15:22 | if people want a good example of how cramped this thing is, here's the idea that Maxwell brought up last week for adding texture and color sets to it
[15:22] Can't rez object at { 150.346, 97.3415, 29.405 } because the owner of this land does not allow it. Use the land tool to see land ownership. | |
15:23 | Siddean Munro | Is there a reason why the build floater can't be resizable? Forgive me if that's a dumb question |
Braydon Randt | i can see the bennefit of possibly display the last texture history ..... but gradients im not sure is such a bennefit | |
15:24 | and i still believe .... that making the floaters undockable off the viewer .. would be the biggest bennefit | |
Elie Spot | yeah i personally cant see that one getting used much.. cool idea though | |
Geenz Spad | it may not be additional texture pickers, but it certainly demonstrates the problem; the more we add, the less space we have, and the more we have to find ways to condense existing features | |
Anouk Spot | i wondered about that too. seems like if it re sizable\ it could help | |
were* | ||
Asha | I don't see gradients getting used much either. | |
Elie Spot | i agree, i also think the pay floater should be resizable, so many times the product name gets cut off and customers can't see the color or description | |
Anouk Spot | right | |
15:25 | Elie Spot | resizable floaters would def help i think |
Geenz Spad | how would that work out if we were to say, add additional texture or color pickers for whatever reason? | |
personally I think some sort of "extended" mode wouldn't be bad | ||
Typhaon Nishi | I think if certain options like the gradient/history are going to be added then there could be an extension tab from this menu to stop it from getting clustered | |
lol | ||
Geenz Spad | basically, click a button, get a different build floater designed to alleviate these problems and be more flexible for new features | |
15:26 | Angus Mesmer | Could those be on a fold-out to the side of the floater, perhaps? Thus keeping the current disposition |
Elie Spot | i like the fold out idea | |
launching new floaters gets cluttered | ||
Typhaon Nishi | yeah last week I suggested myabe like a "+" or "more" button if it were to be extended | |
15:27 | woozl Selkit T. Woozl | Task-optimized floaters like most 3dware, might not be a bad idea. |
Geenz Spad | an extended build floater I think should be more of a model for a "new" build floater | |
Braydon Randt | but you can get out of controll with that .... for each part will have its own section , which is what happens now .... you can only give convenience a priority .. if its not just laziness | |
Oz Linden | Bear in mind that if you invent mechanisms that the viewer does not have in some existing floater, you make the job very much more difficult. | |
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | For example, the texturing or render manager tabs, or the geometry manipulation modes. | |
Geenz Spad | with the old build floater staying around for people who prefer to work with it | |
Angus Mesmer | I also find myself using the texture align quite often, not sure if bottom right, under the rest is the best place. | |
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | Texture align is a godsend. | |
Some spots on this very build would not have been possible without. | ||
Typhaon Nishi | extend the ones that are useful to you | |
Geenz Spad | the reasoning behind this is to make it easier to add new functionality, and have more space for things like different localizations | |
15:28 | I believe Nal brought up a good point regarding the german version of SL and the build floater | |
on that version, words will actually overflow due to the amount of space we have for the floater | ||
15:29 | Elie Spot | would resize be a viable solution? |
Typhaon Nishi | resize would be cool | |
Elie Spot | a bottom right resizer? | |
Braydon Randt | so we should learn ancient eqyptian *lol* | |
Geenz Spad | I think that'd be a bit of a bandage for the existing floater | |
Typhaon Nishi | for some reason I always try to resize it as like a natural reaction | |
Elie Spot | me tooo | |
haha | ||
Geenz Spad | but a potentially viable temporary fix for the localizations | |
Elie Spot | same w/ the pay floater | |
when i see a product name being cut off | ||
15:30 | Geenz Spad | (at least in the interim) |
Typhaon Nishi | each time I think its gna happen | |
Geenz Spad | so that may be doable for now | |
Angus Mesmer | such a shame there's too much stuff to make it a tool bar.. | |
Siddean Munro | Localisations - different language settings right? | |
Elie Spot | has anyone seen the build UI in Cloud Party? | |
Geenz Spad | do we have anyone who pokes at UIs at all in the crowd? :P | |
and yes Siddean | ||
Siddean Munro | thanks :) | |
15:31 | Asha | Yes Elie, I have. |
Geenz Spad | the UI in cloud party is a bit more akin to a 3D modeling application such as Modo | |
Elie Spot | I really like that one | |
with the shelf of icons up top and the extended options for each on the left | ||
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | My main objection to the SL UI in its current state is that it's really, quite clumsy in some areas. | |
Geenz Spad | though I don't think people will receive a sidebar particularly well :p but it's something we could experiment with | |
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | Texturing could use more attention than it currently gets. | |
Elie Spot | right, I just think the floater idea makes more sense when you've not got as many build options as we have | |
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | In fact, one moment; I'll show you a bit more about what I mean. | |
Elie Spot | we've got a complex amount of capabilities | |
15:32 | Angus Mesmer | Believe me, I don't mean *that* sidebar. |
Elie Spot | it makes sense to equal that with a more fitting UI for build mode | |
Geenz Spad | we could go more in this direction (Selkits finding more examples): http://www.solidsmack.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/modo-step-by-step-05.jpg | |
Elie Spot | not just a floater | |
Braydon Randt | I think Oz snuck it in there ...... ideals and wants are great .... but little ideas ... or not little realities | |
Geenz Spad | note how Modo handles additional attributes about a mesh | |
Typhaon Nishi | resizable and customizable | |
Braydon Randt | are* | |
15:33 | Geenz Spad | so maybe taking a page out of a 3D modeling application's book wouldn't be a bad idea? |
albeit, somewhat more simple mind you | ||
Elie Spot | not a bad idea, I wish I could find a screencap of Cloud Party build mode UI | |
Geenz Spad | SL isn't a 3D modeling application afterall | |
Elie Spot | they've combined friendly easy to understand icons w/ a more intense 3d setup | |
Typhaon Nishi | so is LL looking to redesign the build floater? or are wesuggesting this as a new feature? | |
15:34 | Elie Spot | suggesting |
Geenz Spad | mmmh | |
Siddean Munro | I think our build floater just needs to resize to accommodate what is in it, whether it be more options, or different language scripts | |
Elie Spot | we've clearly used up the current build floater, its just too much | |
Geenz Spad | I can't say that LL is going to *for sure* change the build floater, but I believe even they get the feeling that it should be reworked sometime soon | |
Braydon Randt | i vote we use blender 2.49 ui * laughs* | |
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | This is a sample of the UI in Modo 601, my usual 3Dware of choice. | |
Purpose-built functional sidebars somewhat similar in concept to the floater. | ||
Each one pared down by category to a specific task. | ||
Asha | lol Bray.... don't start a massacre | |
15:35 | woozl Selkit T. Woozl | With a user-customizable selection. |
15:36 | Braydon Randt | so we are heading towards a " SL Viewer builders edition" |
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | More windows in the floater might not be such a bad idea provided they're sensibly categorized and task-focused. | |
Siddean Munro | I think it makes more sense that SL Viewer Newbie Edition :) | |
Angus Mesmer | Amen to that | |
Elie Spot | this might be a weird question but.... if we offer up any UI improvements, should we keep mobile versions in mind? idk if LL will ever go that route w/ SL but it might be valuable to consider | |
Geenz Spad | let's steer away from having "editions" of the viewer :P | |
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | And the key notion is, build up in optional complexity. | |
15:37 | Typhaon Nishi | I quite like the idea of customizing it, being able to create your own. I've seen that on more and more recent websites where you customize how you want it to look so its suited to how you want to use it |
Geenz Spad | we already have enough TPVs out there that effectively serve that purpose | |
Oz Linden | What do you think that the natural/useful task groupings are? | |
Braydon Randt | newbie edition will have the " i need 100L till tommorow can we have sex now" buitton ? | |
Geenz Spad | how about we establish a couple of tasks today: | |
15:38 | woozl Selkit T. Woozl | Oz; I would feel that the 'natural' task groupings would be geometry, functions, animation (Assuming we end up with a GMod 13 style option to preview/adjust them?) and texturing with materials options on the off chance that surfaces. |
Geenz Spad | Oz has a very good question, what task groupings would be useful | |
Siddean Munro | Oz - for someone like me, permissions, textures, name and descriptions and a small section for contents incase scripts need to be added. | |
Oz Linden | Just a brainstorming exercise... forget layout and size...what control groups should there be, and which of the existing controls should be in the same groups? | |
Geenz Spad | so let's focus on coming up with some task groupings that both feel natural together, and can increase productivity | |
15:39 | Finlay MacFanatic | I'm with Siddean |
Braydon Randt | personally .. i dont have a problem with how its grouped .... | |
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | Asset, Function, Geometry, Texturing, with the option of animation if features arise. | |
Elie Spot | i agree w/ sid | |
Geenz Spad | and second, I'd like to put out an open call for people to submit ideas for a new build floater; concept images or rough drawings of how a new build floater should work would be preferrable | |
15:40 | woozl Selkit T. Woozl | And from there, prioritize the arrangement of features inside the submenu by prevalence; Texture alignment definitely needs more than the footnote placement it has right now. |
Geenz Spad | they can IM me directly, send me images on SL, they can even email them to me at geenz@exodusviewer.com | |
Elie Spot | p.s. this is the cloud party one, the top buttons are pretty bad actually, but i like the arrangement.. shelf up top with options on the left and a scrollbar - http://grabilla.com/02718-cab7f441-6652-4b63-89f2-088e4c407a1b.png | |
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | Top buttons IMHO are something to -always- avoid. | |
15:41 | Elie Spot | they're bad |
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | Any UI that requires your mouse to leave the workspace altogether is inefficient. | |
Geenz Spad | and we'll go through some of these at next week's meeting | |
sound good everyone? | ||
Angus Mesmer | One of the things I see would be a separate floater for terraforming/Linden plants. Since most of the tabs don't apply. | |
Typhaon Nishi | everyone is different which is why I would say that customizability is important. Some people prioritize thing sdifferently - so pehaps there should be a default layout/UI set then you can move which ones are suited for you | |
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | Personally, I'd love to see something like the pie menu return, but... that may be a pie in the sky dream... ;) | |
Elie Spot | i'd like that too, i hit the wrong button all the time because of the way the menus are now | |
pie menu left more room for my clumsiness | ||
Typhaon Nishi | sounds good | |
Geenz Spad | now, let's try to move on here, we have a couple more things to go | |
15:42 | sachi Vixen | We love pie! |
Geenz Spad | maybe we'll finish by 4 today! | |
so, next up: | ||
"Extended" skeleton for rigged meshes proposal discussion (continued from July 17, 2012's meeting) Geenz Spad 14:28, 16 July 2012 (PDT) | ||
this one was originally brought up at last week's mesh import meeting | ||
the discussion was to the tune of "what bones would people want in the interim added to the avatar's skeleton" | ||
15:43 | ideas brought up were tails, bones for the fingers and toes, and so on | |
15:44 | now, just to be clear, this isn't necessarily "Avatar 2.0", think of it as more of an optional skeleton that people have the choice to rig against | |
Siddean Munro | well I can get on board with those! | |
Elie Spot | me2! | |
Anouk Spot | me3 | |
Crash Uladstron | yes,I'd love toes and fingers | |
Elie Spot | sid just wants permanent middle fingers up | |
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | One word, 'Squee' | |
Angus Mesmer | Fingers would definitely be nice... Something more than the very few hand poses we have at the moment...
[15:45] Braydon RandtBraydon Randt gives up ever ever thinking that materials will be spoken about , and figures that rigging will be the christmas no.1 (still) | |
15:45 | Siddean Munro | what about an extra couple of bones on the head to rig longer hair to? |
or ears, for those inclined to wear them | ||
15:46 | Geenz Spad | well, let's list off things people want in terms of additional bones here: |
additional bones for the extremities (fingers, toes) | ||
bones for ears (I *think* these already exist) | ||
Elie Spot | hair really would help.. i've heard people have a heck of a time weight painting a bunch of separate hair pieces | |
15:47 | Geenz Spad | bones for tails |
hair, there's the tricky one | ||
which is more along the line of "how do we make bones for hair" | ||
15:48 | Finlay MacFanatic | ponytail? |
Elie Spot | i'd think it would just be a couple for long styles going down the back, no? | |
Geenz Spad | so that's one that's going to require a fair bit of discussion with no simple solutions
[15:48] Finlay MacFanaticFinlay MacFanatic shrugs | |
well, pony tail set of bones would work | ||
is that acceptable for everyone? | ||
Angus Mesmer | A second spine attached to the back of your head | |
15:49 | Siddean Munro | So, any new bones would have to have animations built into any mesh that uses them, correct? |
Asha | Ponytail works | |
Geenz Spad | presumably yes, or at least you can animate them | |
alright, so pony tail bones | ||
Braydon Randt | yes ... and lets not forgetting existing legacy content | |
15:50 | Geenz Spad | any other additional bones people would like? within reason that is |
Anouk Spot | not that it's my industry, but i would imagine people might want umm, a penis bone of sorts, no?
[15:50] Braydon RandtBraydon Randt wonders if rob left when we started talking about bones | |
Siddean Munro | hahaha Anouk! Probably, yes :) | |
Geenz Spad | let's not get our hopes or anything elses up on that one Anouk :P | |
Asha | You already covered tail? | |
Elie Spot | Question (This may be stupid) but the cbones redpoly was talking about adding, I believe to the chest and butt.. would those help in this case? not along the lines of their morph targets workaround, but as far as peopl ebeing able to rig more freely | |
Geenz Spad | eh, different situation
[15:51] Finlay MacFanaticFinlay MacFanatic looks forward to ponytail bones.. he'll be sporting a 'nice' mesh mullet | |
15:51 | those would mostly have the function of having additional ways to "deform" something | |
let's think more about body parts we could animate | ||
Elie Spot | wlel im thinking of possible extensions, like.. extra butt bone would be a tail pretty much | |
Geenz Spad | tail bones is already on the list :p | |
Elie Spot | i know | |
but for chest bones | ||
Braydon Randt | ears and hair could be a singular entity | |
15:52 | Elie Spot | i know we have physics but im trying to think if there would be another use for some more rigging freedom in the chest area |
Braydon Randt | penis bone ... i think the whiter and than white PG image sl has these days ... may not be so forth .. errr comming :p | |
Lovely Gears | I was reading something about chin and the chance to rig a talking jaw for furries | |
15:53 | Geenz Spad | well, let's focus on toes, fingers, tail, and pony tail |
Siddean Munro | Oh chin bone is a good one | |
Geenz Spad | that sounds like a reasonable enough list for now | |
those would likely add the most functionality | ||
Lovely Gears | :) | |
Elie Spot | geenz are you adding chin bone to that list | |
Typhaon Nishi | yeah I like the fingers and toes ideas, would give greater flexibility for posers
[15:53] Braydon RandtBraydon Randt sings ./. " and heeearrrrr the word of the lord" | |
15:54 | Geenz Spad | only if there's a clear use for it Elie |
there's many different bones we could add, but for now let's stick with the ones with the obvious use cases | ||
15:55 | woozl Selkit T. Woozl | I for one of the furry contingent, say it's long past time we had tail options. :D |
I'm sure the furries in denial-- er, neko crowd, would agree! | ||
Dearie me, that was not nice of me. Sorry! | ||
Asha | lol | |
Geenz Spad | oh dear
[15:56] AshaAsha does want to animate her Neko tail. | |
15:56 | Siddean Munro | :o |
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | Regarding the note of a chin bone, I think that's a very useful one. | |
Animations for eating and drinking that don't simply involve the avatar pouring a drink into a closed mouth, for example. | ||
Siddean Munro | I agree, for more than animal avvies. :) | |
15:57 | woozl Selkit T. Woozl | Or war cries, or any number of exaggerated facial expressions. |
Angus Mesmer | And beards | |
Geenz Spad | alright, then we'll add chin bone to the list | |
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | And yeah, hell, beards. Angry beard puffing! | |
...Oh dear. Now I need a TF2 Spy with a camera beard. | ||
Look what you've done. >:C | ||
Siddean Munro | I think that'll do for now :) | |
Braydon Randt | its a bad day ... when selket starts to day dream | |
15:58 | Angus Mesmer | Sorry. |
Finlay MacFanatic | I only dislike extremely the motorcycle 'ride' animation | |
Geenz Spad | alright, if that's all, then, shall we move on? | |
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | It's a bad day when the madboy at play starts scheming. | |
And the motorcycle ride animation is... abysmal. Not even centered. ;) | ||
Siddean Munro | toes, fingers, tail, ponytail and chin. Just compiling for the minutes :) | |
ready to move on? | ||
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | Fingers, toes, tail, ponytail, chin. Perhaps two additional hairbones or headpiece bones. | |
15:59 | Imagine jester's hats, or pigtails. | |
Geenz Spad | eeehh | |
that would go more into custom skeleton territory I think | ||
Braydon Randt | please. ... mvoe o | |
Geenz Spad | anyways | |
Braydon Randt | please * sobs* | |
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | Mind you, if I keep disrupting things, I'll need a jester's hat of my own. | |
Geenz Spad | Cloth Simulation (VWR-27189 - Cloth simulation) (continued from July 17, 2012's meeting) (Paola Tauber) | |
there isn't much to add to this conversation that isn't really technical at this point | ||
16:00 | Anouk Spot | that would be a beautiful dream come true if it happens |
Braydon Randt | i would like to know if any of these proposals or ideas .... have a REAL place on the table , or are we meating like kids at a santas grota with our wish lists ? | |
Asha | How realistic is having cloth simulation in SL? | |
16:01 | Geenz Spad | oh some of these do have a real place on the table, it's more a matter of when most of the time |
anyways, cloth could happen, it just depends on how much control people want over it | ||
if they just want a simple set of parameters, then that'd be trivial to add; if they want to paint how much of a mesh has cloth simulation applied, that'd take a bit more work | ||
16:02 | woozl Selkit T. Woozl | I'd be all for having a weightmap, but... yeah. ;) |
Geenz Spad | we have a little over 10 more minutes left | |
Typhaon Nishi | if some of the features that we've discussed so far are implemented such as the deformer/ morph targets, is it likely that they could have an effect on the possibility of having something like cloth simulation in the future? | |
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | Simply defining flexible properties for a mesh along the lines of current flexiprims, would be shiny. | |
Geenz Spad | in the future, possibly | |
as predefined morphs for cloth that have the simulation baked in | ||
16:03 | would help performance certainly | |
Oz Linden | "likely that they could have an effect on the possibility of having something like " .... hmmm.... | |
Geenz Spad | there's a lot of things that morph targets could do, but regardless, moving on not unless someone has ideas regarding cloth simulation workflow? | |
16:04 | Oz Linden | I'm not sure what a positive response to that question would mean. Everything we do affects everything we might do in the future |
Typhaon Nishi | well I mean if say in the future cloth simulation is a possibility but something tahts already implemented prevents that from happening | |
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | I can think of two options for cloth simulation maps, but one would add bandwidth, the other would preclude other options, and... it's probably not the best topic for now. ;) | |
16:05 | Geenz Spad | I wouldn't worry too much about something getting in the way of cloth simulation |
Typhaon Nishi | ok :) | |
Angus Mesmer | Some would say bumpmaps before cloth simulation. | |
Geenz Spad | which (kind of) brings us to our next topic: | |
What are the chances of adding AO/dirt map support if a material project is accepted? Ashasekayi Ra 23:19, 22 July 2012 (PDT) | ||
first question: couldn't you bake these into your diffuse texture? | ||
Braydon Randt | YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! a Materials question | |
16:06 | Asha | You can but... |
Geenz Spad | second question: what would be the overall use I'm overlooking? | |
Oz Linden | What is "AO/dirt map" ? | |
Braydon Randt | O.o | |
Geenz Spad | an AO map is an Ambient Occlusion map | |
it stores an approximation of ambient lighting | ||
16:07 | Finlay MacFanatic | wrinkle picture |
Oz Linden | as opposed to Animation Overrider... I was pretty sure that wasn't it | |
Braydon Randt | its actually created when one object creates shade by being in contact of close proximity with another | |
Geenz Spad | wherein objects that are blocking a sort of hemisphere cast soft shadows onto other objects consistently | |
Asha | It would be nice to give the end user the ability to add their own small, seamless textures to an item while retaining the AO effect. Secondly, a designer can use much smaller maps and still retain visual crispness. Instead of a 1024 by 1024 map, I could used a 256 by 256 AO map and a 64 by 64 tile for example. | |
16:08 | *use | |
Geenz Spad | hm | |
Elie Spot | that would be awesome | |
Braydon Randt | the general texture stack .... consistes of Defuse, Normal, Specular, Ao and dirt | |
Geenz Spad | well, for now I'll say "no", primarily because that's something that would fit into an overall much more flexible pipeline that would likely be years down the road | |
16:09 | Angus Mesmer | in a world without alpha conflicts |
Braydon Randt | so ..; no to materials ... but lets spend 2 weeks talkinbg about bones O.o .. niiiice | |
Geenz Spad | in terms of "immediate" options, it could be possible, and I'm not making a promise here so please do not take it as such | |
Oz Linden | just to complete my ignorance... what's the "dirt" part? | |
Asha | What does alpha conflicts have to do with it? | |
Geenz Spad | same idea Oz, just different terminology | |
Oz Linden | k | |
16:10 | Siddean Munro | SL does have AO in the advanced lighting already |
Geenz Spad | it could be possible whenever some magical possible maybe coming around by year's end solution could allow one to "select" what a texture's alpha map does, but I can't make any promises here one way or another | |
16:11 | Braydon Randt | yet ... we disgussed at leanth last week maxes gradients ideas ? |
Siddean Munro | Braydon, it's not helpful :) | |
we're getting to materials | ||
Braydon Randt | forgive my frustration .... | |
Geenz Spad | there really isn't much to discuss about materials as of yet, and as I believe I've said previously, a proposal has been submitted, and I'll give you guys more news the moment I'm able to | |
Asha | Yes, but that AO doesn't take away from the need of extra diffuse definition. Not to mention, everyone can turn on AO in the viewer. | |
Geenz Spad | which includes if LL ever says no to materials :p | |
Asha | *can't | |
16:13 | Geenz Spad | so, next topic |
The .dae schematic supports vertex colors. Would it be possible for a material/shader in SL to recognize vertex color assignments? If so, would it be possible to have a vertex color shader that lets you pick a blend mode, such as multiply or add? Ashasekayi Ra 23:19, 22 July 2012 (PDT) | ||
this would be neat for something like light mapping | ||
well, per-vertex lightmapping | ||
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | :D | |
16:14 | Geenz Spad | I'd say it could be possible in the future, but we'll see |
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | I can see other uses for vertex-color data reads, particularly touching back on the notion of greater diffuse definition. | |
But I believe that ties into materials, again. | ||
16:15 | Asha | Yes exactly Selkit...that and lower grade lightmapping.
[16:15] Oz LindenOz Linden has to go up to dinner with the wife... |
sachi Vixen | Enjoy your meal Oz | |
Geenz Spad | on that note, it's probably a good idea to wrap things up | |
Siddean Munro | Cheers Oz! | |
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | Way I figure it, we have vertex color data as an inbuilt feature, I see no reason not to keep options for using it open.
[16:15] Finlay MacFanaticFinlay MacFanatic waves.. | |
16:16 | Typhaon Nishi | thanks for coming Oz :) |
Asha | It would be great if it was an option. | |
16:17 | Elie Spot | i'll take this opportunity to be extremely rude and add a topic that I didn't submit.. shift selecting multiple inventory items to edit their properties all at once! |
(yes i'll bring it up next week xD) | ||
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | Elie? | |
I could kiss you. | ||
Elie Spot | hahaha | |
woozl Selkit T. Woozl | We need that rather badly. | |
Typhaon Nishi | not a bad idea | |
Siddean Munro | Yep! | |
pop it in the agenda pls pls! | ||
Geenz Spad | once I know more about materials, I'll be sure to share :) and although I can't confirm if or when they are coming, I can say that a proposal has been submitted, and there's a good chance you will all see some news on it in the coming months | |
Elie Spot | will do! | |
Geenz Spad | in otherwords, stay tuned everyone! | |
Elie Spot | thats awesome geenz thanks! | |
16:18 | sachi Vixen | I want one of those Elie |
Elie Spot | is this topic more suitable for a jira? | |
the mass edit properties? | ||
Geenz Spad | probably | |
16:19 | Elie Spot | ok i'll make a jira, and link to it on the agenda for next week then |
Geenz Spad | anyways, that's all for today's meeting, thank you everyone for coming! | |
Typhaon Nishi | cheers :) | |
16:20 | woozl Selkit T. Woozl | Cheers, boys, girls, and ephemeral clouds of particles |
Anouk Spot | have a good day all! | |
Siddean Munro | Thanks Geenz and all who came along :) |