Doc Team/2010-08-11

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[13:01] Nathan Adored: Ah, good, a Linden. Now we can officially have a meeting. :D
[13:01] Jeremy Linden: It wasn't official before?
[13:02] Nathan Adored: well, it wouldn't do any good to have a discussoin if there's no Lindens here to participate. :D
[13:02] Jeremy Linden: "If avatars have a discussion and there's no Linden around to hear it, did it really happen?"
[13:02] Nathan Adored: tho there have been some lively ones here when no Lindens showed. (giggles)
[13:02] Geo Meek: tree falling thing
[13:02] Jeremy Linden: Yep, Geo :-)
[13:03] Nathan Adored: "If a tree falls on a Linden, did it really make a sound?" :D
[13:03] Jeremy Linden: To be fair, I do log all the office hours I attend :-)
[13:03] Geo Meek: good news
[13:03] Jeremy Linden: Eh, depends on how the physics engine is feeling that day, and whether the collision sound is cached.
[13:04] Geo Meek: do feel fre to use voice if you like
[13:04] Jeremy Linden: Voice is disabled on this parcel, actually.
[13:04] Geo Meek: =free
[13:04] Nathan Adored: I think they might have voice turned off here.
[13:04] Nathan Adored: yeah, what Jeremy Linden said
[13:04] Nathan Adored has pinged you.
[13:05] Geo Meek: voice can be used in many ways
[13:05] Nathan Adored: since they always post chat transcripts of the DocTeam OH to the wiki, it'd kinda be pointless to have some of it in voicechat, since that part wouldn't get trasncribed
[13:05] Geo Meek: as a group
[13:05] Jeremy Linden: Yes it can, but it can't easily be logged and posted to the wiki. :-)
[13:05] Geo Meek: sure it cab
[13:05] Geo Meek: can
[13:06] Geo Meek: this week in google is on
[13:06] Nathan Adored: yeah, but you'd have to have someone there to manually transcribe it. And it wouldn't be worth the extra resources expended.... so they turn off voice instead.
[13:06] Jeremy Linden: Geo, if you can find me a tool that neatly interlaces speech-to-text with text-only for the log, I'll be extremely happy to use it for this office hour :-)
[13:07] Nathan Adored: /me smiles.
[13:07] Geo Meek: just record the voice and post the file
[13:08] Geo Meek: if someone needs text let them do that
[13:09] Jeremy Linden: The other part of why we don't use voice for office hours, at least traditionally, is that text gets logged in a way that holds Lindens accountable for what they say. If someone files an AR against me for something I say, it'll come out in the official logs when the AR gets checked out.
[13:09] Geo Meek: so much is lost in text
[13:09] Jeremy Linden: Not that I'm a particularly offensive guy, of course!
[13:10] Geo Meek: :-0
[13:10] Geo Meek: :-)
[13:11] Geo Meek: well i here to learn and i find i do it much faster in voice
[13:11] Jeremy Linden: Geo, I understand your viewpoint. There have been some experiments with voice-only office hours, but so far they've been with groups of Residents under NDA on certain features.
[13:11] Nathan Adored: Speaking of NDA..... any idea when the NDA will be lifted for Mesh stuff?
[13:11] Geo Meek: i do understand
[13:12] Jeremy Linden: Sorry Nathan, no idea.
[13:12] Bronson Blackadder: does anyone realize how futile it is to ask about NDA stuff?
[13:12] Nathan Adored: any idea when we'll see a public beta?
[13:12] Jeremy Linden: Sorry Nathan, no idea.
[13:12] Nathan Adored: Yeah, the timing of the lifting-of-NDA is probably also coverd by NDA. :D
[13:13] Bronson Blackadder: correct
[13:13] Nathan Adored: Still, it was worth a shot. (gigggles) and a good way to change the subject.
[13:13] Bronson Blackadder: we are not able to talk about teh North Dakaota Assossiation
[13:13] Geo Meek: :-)
[13:13] Jeremy Linden: I wish I knew more. Lots of stuff got shuffled around lately with all the restructuring of the company.
[13:14] Jeremy Linden: Anyway, aside from not having voice and wanting Mesh to come out, how is everyone this week?
[13:14] Nathan Adored: Yeah, when Qarl got the axe... a lot of people were scared to death it was a sign Mesh was being shelved... oO
[13:14] Bronson Blackadder: so far so good
[13:14] Bronson Blackadder: I took eth time to take alook at blue mars
[13:14] Nathan Adored: alive and kicking
[13:14] Bronson Blackadder: what a dump
[13:15] Jeremy Linden: Blue Mars started following me on Twitter yesterday :-)
[13:15] Nathan Adored: I've been spending about equal time as here on one of the opensim grids.
[13:15] Bronson Blackadder: I was expecting all sorts of cool stuff because everyone keeps blabbing about it
[13:15] Bronson Blackadder: first the avatar editor blows
[13:15] Bronson Blackadder: the movement controls blow
[13:16] Nathan Adored: I hear the movement system is.... not very nice, too
[13:16] Bronson Blackadder: teh chat system blows
[13:16] Bronson Blackadder: and the intereaction of items blows
[13:16] Jeremy Linden: Heh.
[13:16] Geo Meek: Blue Mars = Mass bandwidth
[13:16] Nathan Adored: Basically, so I've heard, the only real good thing Blue Mars has going for it is..... everything looks fantastic. :D
[13:16] Bronson Blackadder: the good points were dynamic shadows
[13:16] Bronson Blackadder: and eth water looked good
[13:16] Bronson Blackadder: except in some pool where it looked daft
[13:17] Jeremy Linden: I'm... pretty sure I'm not allowed to express any kind of opinion on the subject, but I appreciate the feedback. It's interesting to know what people think about how other virtual worlds stack up to Second Life.
[13:17] Bronson Blackadder: and even though tehre was only 4 people there at the time.... lag was a killer
[13:18] Bronson Blackadder: I have to say that SL still has alot going for it
[13:18] Nathan Adored: Another place that seems to be having a bit of buzz lately is inWorldz.... an opensim grid. But I've heard some not-so-nice things from ppl who've actually gone tere.
[13:18] Bronson Blackadder: and blue mars made viewer 2.0 look good
[13:18] Bronson Blackadder: lol
[13:18] Geo Meek: is LL addressing the win 7 thing?
[13:18] Bronson Blackadder: what win7 thing?
[13:18] Nathan Adored: what win 7 thing?
[13:18] Jeremy Linden: Which Windows 7 thing, Geo?
[13:18] Nathan Adored: /me is on Win7 64bit, and hasn't had any problems. Mind you, he's using Emerald.
[13:19] Geo Meek: when you goto the home page there is nothing about using win 7 with sl
[13:19] Jeremy Linden: Oh, the system requirements page?
[13:19] Bronson Blackadder: well win7 is just vista taht works
[13:19] Geo Meek: yes
[13:19] Nimh20 Vandeverre: Not only that the download for 2.1 says XP/Vista---nothing about 7?
[13:19] Jeremy Linden: /me is on Windows 7 64-bit.
[13:19] Nimh20 Vandeverre: me too
[13:19] Nathan Adored: probably the Linden who was to update that page.... got axed. :D
[13:19] Geo Meek: so you think people that use win know that thy can?
[13:19] Bronson Blackadder: is on win7 32
[13:20] Geo Meek: =7
[13:20] Nimh20 Vandeverre: Non PC people don't know trust me
[13:20] Jeremy Linden: I'll look into that... our requirements page tends to get overlooked sometimes.
[13:20] Nimh20 Vandeverre: If 2.1 works on 7 --it should say XP/Vista/7
[13:20] Geo Meek: a new used of a OS well not see thy can use win 7
[13:20] Bronson Blackadder: I know there is a buttload of peeps using all sorts of video cards higher then an 8800 too
[13:20] Bronson Blackadder: but those are not on eth erquirements page
[13:21] Geo Meek: being that it is the largest OS on the markit
[13:21] Bronson Blackadder: but they still work
[13:21] Geo Meek: so
[13:21] Geo Meek: it needs to say you can
[13:21] Geo Meek: dont try to think for others
[13:21] Bronson Blackadder: and not many people really look at that page anyway
[13:21] Nathan Adored: well, the video card recommendations, I assume, are for MINIMUM support..... those better cards are, of course, better for SL thatn those minimum ones. :D
[13:21] Bronson Blackadder: most people just download and try it
[13:21] Geo Meek: dont try to think for others
[13:22] Bronson Blackadder: if it works it works
[13:22] Geo Meek: dont try to think for others
[13:22] Nathan Adored: still, it might be woth adding langiuge there saying "8800 cards, or better"
[13:22] Bronson Blackadder: geo dont assume if its not on there it wont work
[13:22] Bronson Blackadder: geo dont assume if its not on there it wont work
[13:22] Bronson Blackadder: geo dont assume if its not on there it wont work
[13:22] Nathan Adored: yup
[13:22] Nathan Adored: yup
[13:22] Nathan Adored: yup
[13:22] Geo Meek: it was lag
[13:22] Bronson Blackadder: lol
[13:22] Nathan Adored: oh
[13:22] Bronson Blackadder: lol
[13:23] Geo Meek: dont have that in voice
[13:23] Nathan Adored: yeah, lag kicks my tail on groupchat all the time.
[13:23] Bronson Blackadder: oh I thought we were digressing back to kindergarten
[13:23] Bronson Blackadder: sorry :P
[13:23] Jeremy Linden: Stating "or better" for video cards might be tricky, but I'll see who I can talk to about getting that page updated.
[13:23] Jeremy Linden: Toy boat.
[13:23] Jeremy Linden: Toy boat.
[13:23] Jeremy Linden: Toy boat.
[13:23] Bronson Blackadder: alot of people use 9800s 200 series
[13:23] Bronson Blackadder: 300 series
[13:23] Bronson Blackadder: 400s
[13:24] Nathan Adored: is there a page that just keeps track of what all video cards have been tried and which ones work and which ones don't? maybe something user-mantained
[13:24] Jeremy Linden: That sounds like an excellent candidate for the wiki, Nathan.
[13:24] Bronson Blackadder: but then again teh LL stats are that 60% of eth users are using class 0 systems
[13:25] Bronson Blackadder: but those 60% are probably not the big spenders in SL either
[13:25] Nimh20 Vandeverre: The keyboard shortcuts document should be delivred to all noobs via their email
[13:25] Bronson Blackadder: nathan I think I did see a wiki page in sl about video cards
[13:26] Bronson Blackadder: but it was awhile ago I saw it
[13:26] Bronson Blackadder: probably outdated
[13:26] Geo Meek: Torley has one on building computers
[13:26] Jeremy Linden: Interesting thought, Nimh20. There is a keyboard shortcuts page in the quick start guide for Viewer 2:
[13:26] Nathan Adored: yup, that's why I suggested it be user-maintainmed
[13:26] Geo Meek: its about 2 weeks old
[13:27] Nathan Adored: -m
[13:27] Farfallala Rae: hello nathan
[13:27] Nathan Adored: hello Raf
[13:27] Nathan Adored: er... Far
[13:27] Nimh20 Vandeverre: It would help the casual user out Jermery because people are so busy in RL that a lot of them are not going to take the time to search for that
[13:27] Farfallala Rae: haha
[13:27] Nathan Adored: <--- did I mention, Can't Bloomin' Type?!? :D
[13:27] Farfallala Rae: do you know a place to earn some money?
[13:28] Bronson Blackadder: easiest way is just buy it
[13:28] Jeremy Linden: Yeah, we're looking for better ways to help new Residents learn to use Second Life. Personally, I would love to see a more interactive tutorial system built into the viewer :-)
[13:28] Farfallala Rae: yes I know, but i don't have any money
[13:28] Nathan Adored: no real-world money?
[13:29] Farfallala Rae: exactly, Im a poor student
[13:29] Geo Meek: how about screen share
[13:29] Nathan Adored: awwww http://www ...
[13:29] Geo Meek: if skype can do it
[13:29] Bronson Blackadder: taht side panel would be a great place for a tutorials page Jeremy
[13:29] Bronson Blackadder has pinged you.
[13:29] Farfallala Rae: and im new here
[13:29] Farfallala Rae: its my first day in sl
[13:30] Bronson Blackadder: welcome to SL
[13:30] Geo Meek: welcome
[13:30] Nimh20 Vandeverre: Farfallala--check your IM's
[13:30] Farfallala Rae: thanks
[13:30] Jeremy Linden: Maybe, Bronson. We do have Viewer Help right now. That's what you get when you press F1 or click the "?" on any window. It opens help for whichever window has focus.
[13:30] Farfallala Rae: whats IM?
[13:30] Nimh20 Vandeverre: Instand Message
[13:30] Nimh20 Vandeverre: t
[13:30] Bronson Blackadder: yep
[13:30] Nathan Adored: you might try DJing, I suppose..... you'd have to buy the right software, tho. I gather there';s a fairly cheap but good one on the Mac, but I don't remember the name of it. Gripes me tht there doeesn't seem to be a sub-$50-DJ proggy on Windows, tho
[13:31] Bronson Blackadder: oh one thing I do wish to see again is a fast way to look at grid status
[13:31] Farfallala Rae: why nimph?
[13:31] Bronson Blackadder: oh hell you can use winamp and a shoutcast DSP for taht
[13:31] Bronson Blackadder: all free
[13:31] Nimh20 Vandeverre: Open up the other windows of people typing to you Farrfallala
[13:31] Nathan Adored: presumably because he sent you a private chat.
[13:32] Farfallala Rae: oh ok nimph
[13:32] Jeremy Linden: Bronson, does this help?
[13:32] Bronson Blackadder: lol
[13:32] Nimh20 Vandeverre: lol no -my name is Nimh--aka National Institute of Mental Health
[13:32] Bronson Blackadder: yeah but can you do taht fast from the viewer?
[13:32] Bronson Blackadder: on 1.23 you coul dgo to the top of the screen and click help
[13:32] Nathan Adored: is there a free package for winamp that lets you cue up songs in advance, rearrange and add and remove them before they broadcast?
[13:33] Bronson Blackadder: and tere would be a spot to check teh linden blog
[13:33] Nathan Adored: dinamically, I mean
[13:33] Bronson Blackadder: it would pop open and there woul dbe a link right there to check teh grid status
[13:33] Nathan Adored: er.... dynamically
[13:33] Bronson Blackadder: nathan yes
[13:33] Bronson Blackadder: just search for winamp
[13:33] Nathan Adored: name them and I'll check it out.
[13:33] Bronson Blackadder: let me look
[13:34] Bronson Blackadder:
[13:34] Nathan Adored: I tried DJing ones in winamp, years ago, and it was very very tedius. It was all I could do just keeping the songs playing.
[13:34] Nathan Adored: *once in
[13:35] Bronson Blackadder: the latest skin has a really good song playlist editor
[13:35] Bronson Blackadder: and you can choose different skins too
[13:35] Geo Meek: try live streaming from
[13:35] Nathan Adored: And yeah, I know about winamp, I use winamp. I mean, do you know of a specifica suite of add-ons for it that make DHing in it a breaze
[13:35] Bronson Blackadder: so you can use one taht works best for you
[13:35] Nathan Adored: er... DJing in it
[13:36] Geo Meek: sure
[13:36] Geo Meek: and you can sharea your rl
[13:36] Bronson Blackadder: and teh shoutcast DSP plug in allows you to use voice too
[13:36] Bronson Blackadder: there is SAM also
[13:36] Bronson Blackadder: but you have to pay for that
[13:36] Geo Meek: livestream is free
[13:36] Nathan Adored: yup, Sam aint free. I'm looking for free, or dirt cheap.
[13:37] Bronson Blackadder: and if you are streaming so multiple people are hearing it
[13:37] Geo Meek: i have 11 free live streams
[13:37] Bronson Blackadder: you are streaming up to a third party server
[13:37] Bronson Blackadder: and it replicates teh stream
[13:37] Geo Meek: this metting needs to be on one
[13:37] Bronson Blackadder: so multiple peeps hear it
[13:37] Geo Meek: no it is a live stream in real time
[13:37] Nathan Adored: yeah, but does give you good WinAmp plugins for streaming? or does it merely provide a place for one to stream through, given an acquared-serpereately streaming software?
[13:38] Geo Meek: i can rez it on a prim here and run it if you like
[13:39] Bronson Blackadder: only people on 2.1 can see it or hear it on Moap
[13:39] Geo Meek: and it my have some delay but vary little
[13:39] Nathan Adored: I'm mostly trying to track down software for MY end of the issue. Geting a place to stream via isn't an issue because I can get that already.
[13:39] Geo Meek: true you need 2.0 or better
[13:40] Geo Meek: but with livestream you can also see it on a web page
[13:40] Geo Meek: no need for sl
[13:40] Nathan Adored: yeah, but if I DJ, I'll probably DJ at an existing club..... who have their own streaming station.
[13:40] Bronson Blackadder: kinda defeats streaming into SL if you dnt need SL
[13:41] Geo Meek: a great way to share sl
[13:41] Geo Meek: to people that have no idea what it is
[13:41] Geo Meek: and are using win 7
[13:41] Geo Meek: hehe
[13:41] Bronson Blackadder: lol
[13:41] Jeremy Linden: Heh.
[13:42] Nathan Adored: and I'm also a friend of the guy who runs TNT Radio in-world..... which also does streaming.
[13:42] Jeremy Linden: Actually, I sometimes go to live music events, grab the URL (if I can), then hop out to make room for more people to listen in the region.
[13:42] Nathan Adored: yup, that works.
[13:42] Bronson Blackadder: sounds like taht is teh guy to talk to about what free software to use
[13:42] Bronson Blackadder: but he will probably say winamp and shoutcast
[13:42] Geo Meek: good thinking Jeremy
[13:42] Geo Meek has pinged you.
[13:42] Morgaine Dinova: Jeremy, I've been searching the Knowledge Base for a way of stopping calling card spam, but can't seem to find the answer. Muting is not the same thing, as then you can't hear the people locally nor in group. I need an answer for a situation in which the spammer refuses to remove our calling card from his spam list. There are many of us affected.
[13:42] Morgaine Dinova has pinged you.
[13:43] Nathan Adored: I was having major issues with my ISP giving me really rocky internet thorughput.... so that listening to the stream in-world didn't work so well, so I'd switch to listening via winamp and it was at least marginally better
[13:43] Morgaine Dinova: Jeremy: Is there a Knowledge Base page you could point me to?
[13:43] Morgaine Dinova has pinged you.
[13:43] Nathan Adored: Fortunately, they sent us a newer modem that works on a different system thatn the old one, and my internet has performed more steadily now. Knock wood.
[13:44] Jeremy Linden: Not sure, Morgaine. We would probably just say you should mute this person.
[13:44] Morgaine Dinova: Not adequate, since we only want to stop his CC spams, not mute him in-world nor in group.
[13:44] Nathan Adored: yeah, you can slect "mute" on individuals in world, and everything they say or do is blocked from chat, and they show up all grey.
[13:45] Nathan Adored: ah
[13:45] Geo Meek: Most ISP's steal your bandwidth and you never know
[13:45] Morgaine Dinova: Nathan: yeah, we know about mute, but it doesn't do what we want, which is to remove our Calling Card from him
[13:45] Geo Meek: i have that with Time Warrner all the time
[13:46] Nathan Adored: And unchecking the checknox that lets them see when you're online isn't useful to you eiter?
[13:47] Jeremy Linden: If nothing else works, Morgaine, try sending him a warning that you no longer wish to receive unsolicited messages through your calling card. If he continues, file an abuse report with us including all details of the situation.
[13:47] Morgaine Dinova: Nathan: they're not a friend. If they were a friend, we could just cancel friendship, and the friendship would drop from the other end as well.
[13:47] Bronson Blackadder: it would be nice if when you dump a person off your friends list it withdraws your calling card out of thier inventory
[13:48] Morgaine Dinova: Jeremy: we've done the asking politely many times. He refuses.
[13:48] Morgaine Dinova has pinged you.
[13:48] Jeremy Linden: He told you he refuses, or he ignores you?
[13:48] Bronson Blackadder: as it is now the calling card remains in their inventory
[13:48] Morgaine Dinova: He actually refuses to do anything about it.
[13:49] Morgaine Dinova: I've never AR's anybody. I guess that's explained in the K.B. somewhere, right?
[13:50] Jeremy Linden: Here's the first hit I found:
[13:50] Morgaine Dinova: Thanks Jeremy
[13:50] Morgaine Dinova has pinged you.
[13:53] Morgaine Dinova: Hi again xstorm
[13:53] Bronson Blackadder: hey its that dude again
[13:53] Geo Meek: **Welcome back!***
[13:53] xstorm Radek: hi hi ty :-)
[13:53] xstorm Radek: cleaning a sandbox
[13:53] Jeremy Linden: Ah, fun!
[13:53] Bronson Blackadder: litterbox?
[13:54] Bronson Blackadder: damn cats anyway
[13:54] xstorm Radek: lol if you cound 30 dresses box
[13:54] xstorm Radek: count
[13:54] Jeremy Linden: I always used to like uncrowded sandboxes. Like gigantic mad scientist laboratories, with people experimenting on all kinds of stuff.
[13:55] xstorm Radek: so did i :-)
[13:55] Bronson Blackadder: the sandboxes here are madhouses
[13:55] xstorm Radek: its great to see what a person can think up thats out side the box
[13:56] Geo Meek: indeed
[13:56] xstorm Radek: like the website control of ojects in side of sl
[13:56] Bronson Blackadder: or how perfect they can make something if they think inside the box
[13:56] Geo Meek: thinking is good if it happens
[13:57] Bronson Blackadder: lol
[13:57] Bronson Blackadder: huh? wha?
[13:57] xstorm Radek: perfection is not perfect there was a man that did feeel perfection is never true
[13:57] Bronson Blackadder: perfection is the enemy of excellence
[13:57] Morgaine Dinova: LOL, new idea for ToS: "Residents are required to think."
[13:57] Bronson Blackadder: lol
[13:57] Morgaine Dinova: It'll never fly :P
[13:57] Bronson Blackadder: lol
[13:57] Bronson Blackadder: lol
[13:58] xstorm Radek: lol
[13:58] Bronson Blackadder: so true
[13:58] Geo Meek: Happy 35th birthday, global warming!
[13:58] Jeremy Linden: Would that mean we would need a "thoughtless police"?
[13:58] Nathan Adored: Morgaine: Oh, that'll go over like a solid brick hangglider! :D
[13:58] Time Minder: You have been online for 1 hours.
[13:59] Geo Meek: LL seems to ahead od that cirve
[13:59] xstorm Radek: well they did that back when we had telehubs and LL did not like us land owners putting our shops all around the telehubs lol
[13:59] Geo Meek: =of

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