Doc Team/2010-08-25

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[12:59] Nathan Adored: Ah, SOMEone else is here! :D
[13:00] Jeremy Linden: Hi Nathan :-)
[13:00] Nathan Adored: Hello Jeremy Linden.
[13:00] Nathan Adored has pinged you.
[13:01] Jeremy Linden: I think Oz may be stealing my thunder lately. His office hour is apparently at this time, too. :-)
[13:01] Jeremy Linden: Hello Lego. Welcome to Documentation Office Hours.
[13:02] Lego Rysios: Hi nice to see you.
[13:03] Nathan Adored: What do they discuss at Oz's OH, and do they post trascripts to the web like this one does?
[13:04] Lego Rysios: I was at Area in Linden World Which had a Job Area do you know anyone any Linden that tp me over there and Meet me there.
[13:04] Jeremy Linden: Oz is leading our open source initiative... I'm not sure if he posts his transcripts or not.
[13:04] Jeremy Linden: I'm not sure I understand, Lego.
[13:04] Lego Rysios: Ok hold on,one sec
[13:06] Nathan Adored: hmmmm..... you can bet they'l be talking about emeraldgate there. heh.
[13:06] Jeremy Linden: Heh. I only have a blog reader's knowledge of that, myself.
[13:06] Jeremy Linden: Anyone have any interesting adventures in the last week?
[13:06] Nathan Adored: Yeah, I look at some of that stuff and it's like.... "Gee, do yuo got a LIFE?!?!?" :D
[13:07] Lego Rysios: Nope.
[13:07] Jeremy Linden: Hi CPU. Welcome back.
[13:08] CPU Core: hi
[13:08] Nathan Adored: Hello CPU. Love that av! :D
[13:08] CPU Core: hi nathan, thanx :)
[13:09] CPU Core: so whats happening?
[13:09] Lego Rysios: Ok the Linden Lab Recruiting Area can you send a Linden over Becuase i am intersted in joining the Linden lab
[13:09] Jeremy Linden: Ah, I see.
[13:09] Aargle Zymurgy: I've been reading over the docs on the Display Names thing.
[13:09] Jeremy Linden: Lego, our employment page can be found here:
[13:10] Jeremy Linden: That's the best way to contact us if you want to work at Linden Lab :-)
[13:10] CPU Core: LL only employs people from the US now?
[13:10] Jeremy Linden: I'm don't know the exact policy, CPU, but if that's what the page says, I think it's accurate.
[13:11] CPU Core: i didnt look at the page :)
[13:11] Lego Rysios: I have a Question can you work for Lindens inworld.
[13:11] Jeremy Linden: Find anything noteworthy on the Display Names page, Aargle?
[13:11] CPU Core: in SL Linden Labs also employ moles
[13:11] Jeremy Linden: Lego, do you mean L$, or can you work for Linden Lab inworld?
[13:12] Nathan Adored: the ones with the Mole surname are in-world builders and stuff.
[13:12] Lego Rysios: i Mean can you work for Linden Lab inworld
[13:12] Aargle Zymurgy: well, Jeremy, I'm not finding some things to settle an argument I had with another friend who also runs a business.
[13:12] Aargle Zymurgy has pinged you.
[13:13] CPU Core: i think it might actually be easier to become a Linden than a mole though lol
[13:13] Jeremy Linden: Hm. As Nathan said, I think we have a Department of Public Works who work for us inworld. I think Michael Linden might be in charge of that.
[13:13] Aargle Zymurgy: from what I can tell, it would be a TOS violation to, for example, use the name "Aargle Zymurgy" as a display name if you're not actually me.
[13:14] Aargle Zymurgy: (the clause about being an imposter)
[13:14] Jeremy Linden: What if my real name is Aargle Zymurgy and I want to use it?
[13:14] Aargle Zymurgy: but at the same time, there's nothing on the page indicating that the system itself can prevent literally anyone from doing so.
[13:14] Nathan Adored: Oh, they added an imposter clause? :D Kewl.
[13:15] Aargle Zymurgy: Jeremy, that's a bit beside the point. I've spent 3 1/2 years building a reputation for me and my products. now anyone can set a Display Name and claim to be me.
[13:15] Aargle Zymurgy has pinged you.
[13:15] Lego Rysios: What do the Department of Public works do
[13:15] Nathan Adored: build stuff
[13:15] Nathan Adored: they're the ones tat go out and design what Linen-owned sims look like, for instance. WHere the buildings and roads go, what they'll look like, etc etc
[13:15] CPU Core: I think its fair enough.. anyone who takes your name is clearly trying to impersonate you
[13:16] CPU Core: but when the name is mroe common like say.. Legolas
[13:16] Jeremy Linden: Aargle, I don't think it's that simple each person's account name will be prominently displayed on their profile. It won't be easy to fool someone who's got enough inworld experience to know your reputation. At least, so I would hope!
[13:16] CPU Core: your just a copy of a character and many will want it
[13:16] Lego Rysios: So Jeremy what do they do?
[13:16] Lego Rysios has pinged you.
[13:17] Jeremy Linden: Lego, the DPW builds public spaces, roads, and other Linden-controlled content in Second Life.
[13:17] Aargle Zymurgy: but I can guarantee that it WILL be done. and then ... well, I hate to imagine the number of ARs that the g-team will have to deal with
[13:17] Nathan Adored: the moles then BUILD the new sim, and its contents, according to that plan.
[13:17] Lego Rysios: I see.
[13:17] Nathan Adored: Ah, more stragglers. ã‹¡
[13:17] CPU Core: yeah they will get thousands of ARs for names.. i dont think they realise it yet :)
[13:18] Nathan Adored: Hello Techwolf, good to see you again
[13:18] Techwolf Lupindo: /me smiels
[13:18] Aargle Zymurgy: and I already feel badly when I file ARs. I know how much work gets dumped on them.
[13:18] CPU Core: someone make their name Adolf Hitler... thats about 500 ARs right there
[13:18] Jeremy Linden: I haven't been briefed on the specifics of Display Names for Q&A, so I can't make any concrete statements about how we're planning to deal with impersonators. Sorry :-/
[13:18] Carol Darkthief: This Display Name thing?
[13:18] CPU Core: yeah we are discussing display names :)
[13:19] Aargle Zymurgy: any reason the display names can't be handled the way IRC has handled it for decades?
[13:19] Nathan Adored: and that is?
[13:19] Aargle Zymurgy: you can register them... then if someone else tries to use it, they are politely rejected.
[13:19] Techwolf Lupindo: This display name things was RUSHED out the door before taking into fact some policy changes needed to be made and created.
[13:19] Jeremy Linden: ...and the implications of impersonating another person who has established a reputation based on their name.
[13:19] Nathan Adored: yup
[13:20] Carol Darkthief: Jeremy, I'm glad you said that. Thanks.
[13:20] Carol Darkthief has pinged you.
[13:20] Aargle Zymurgy: or, even simpler, no replicated display names. You can call yourself whatever you want.... just not if someone's done it already
[13:20] Lego Rysios: so what kind of content do they do and do you do any non building Stuff and are there any other inworld groups run by the Linden lab.
[13:20] Nathan Adored: trouble is, even if there's a mechanism for preventing someone from using a display name someone else is alerady using..... what's to stop someone from using one that's slightly off from? say, substituting a 1 or a ! for an i?
[13:20] Aargle Zymurgy: Nathan, not much, really, but copy&paste will always know the difference.
[13:21] Jeremy Linden: Lego, check this out:
[13:21] CPU Core: maybe they should notify users if someone creates a display name similar to their username
[13:22] Aargle Zymurgy: of course, some of us just won't know if 蘑菇的大腦 is an un-acceptable name
[13:22] Aargle Zymurgy: :-)
[13:23] CPU Core: i think estates should not let in anyone who has a name similar tot he estate owners
[13:23] Carol Darkthief: Is Torley colour blind or something? That hat!
[13:23] Nathan Adored: hmmmm.... that notify idea sounds neat.
[13:23] Jeremy Linden: One of the proposed benefits of Display Names is the ability for people to choose, for example, their real name. I know my real name was taken in 2005, and there are doubtless more people in the world who have the same name. Display Names would allow me to be myself, when appropriate.
[13:24] CPU Core: i have not looked if my real name is taken
[13:24] CPU Core: yes its taken
[13:24] Lego Rysios: I dont think thats the right group are there any security Groups that are run by Linden lab that are inworld groups
[13:25] Nathan Adored: CPU: Dunno.,. someone might innocently and unkowingly happen to pick a display name that accidently near-matches an estae-owners name.... and then be surprised when he can't get in.
[13:25] Aargle Zymurgy: well, I had to use some odd punctuation for my e-mail for my local cable company. My real name had been taken in several forms. you just adapt.
[13:25] Jeremy Linden: Sorry, Linden Lab does not work with Resident-run security groups.
[13:26] CPU Core: second life is a lawless place.. there is no security here
[13:26] Nathan Adored: My original account had a surname that was retired ages ago.... when I created this alt, as his fictionalied, adopted son.... I would have loved to have chosen the same surname.
[13:26] Lego Rysios: I dont think thats the right group i mean i not really the best builder so i will not join the group
[13:26] Nathan Adored: Now this is my primary account, and the other became the alt. heh
[13:27] Jeremy Linden: I know how that feels, Nathan. I think my Resident account went through a similar transition.
[13:27] Lego Rysios: Do they have Linden Lab run groups.
[13:28] Nathan Adored: Now, at least, I could give both of them a new, common last name. heh
[13:28] Lego Rysios: that are secuirty Groups.
[13:28] Nathan Adored: but, I'm also on two or three OpenSim grids under this name and the other one.... so... it might cause confusion.
[13:28] Aargle Zymurgy: well nuts... I have to go deal with new crises
[13:29] Jeremy Linden: Sorry Lego, but no. Our support staff handle all reported problems inworld.
[13:29] Jeremy Linden: Thanks for coming, Aargle.
[13:29] Lego Rysios: Is there a group for that.
[13:29] Aargle Zymurgy: thanks, Jeremy.... and I hope someone's listening carefully to us business people about the Display Names thing. a lot of us are simply scared of this turn of events.
[13:29] Aargle Zymurgy has pinged you.
[13:29] Aargle Zymurgy: bye now.
[13:30] Jeremy Linden: Lego, the Linden Lab support staff works for Linden Lab. You can find open positions online here:
[13:31] Jeremy Linden: It looks like we do not have any positions available right now.
[13:31] Nathan Adored: No surprise there... ã‹¡
[13:31] Lego Rysios: umm well do they offered jobs that worked for the support staff.
[13:32] Jeremy Linden: The page says, "At this time, we are not hiring for any openings."
[13:33] CPU Core: theyve been firing people like crazy
[13:33] Lego Rysios: ok
[13:34] CPU Core: what is your scrum team called?
[13:35] Jeremy Linden: I'm kind of strange in that I'm the only technical writer currently on staff. I hop around between teams that are working on features that need instructions.
[13:36] CPU Core: so you dont have one?
[13:36] Jeremy Linden: I think I technically do. It doesn't function using the Scrum methodology, though.
[13:37] Jeremy Linden: Searching..
[13:37] CPU Core: you work with Jon Linden and Torley?
[13:37] Lego Rysios: can i make a group that can also run by Lindens
[13:37] Jeremy Linden: Ah, here we go. I'm on Platfor/Support
[13:37] Jeremy Linden: er, Platform/Support
[13:38] Jeremy Linden: CPU, I work with Jon, but Torley has moved to another team.
[13:38] Nathan Adored: I miss Torley being here.
[13:38] Nathan Adored: At these meetings, I mean
[13:38] Jeremy Linden: Me too!
[13:39] CPU Core: Torleys become quite a crowd puller lol
[13:39] Lego Rysios: my question is can you make a group but than you can get Lindens to run it as well.
[13:39] CPU Core: Well he might just be the most popular Linden
[13:39] Nathan Adored: I love the goofy phrases and stuff he puts out over Twitter. heh
[13:39] CPU Core: or famous
[13:39] Jeremy Linden: Maybe, CPU!
[13:40] CPU Core: not sure whos name is most known between him and philip
[13:40] Carol Darkthief: /me looks up the scrum methodology. "So we're the chickens, are we?"
[13:40] Nathan Adored: bok bok bok
[13:40] Jeremy Linden: Better than being the bacon at breakfast :-)
[13:40] Nathan Adored: Brings whole new meaning to the phrase "Nothing here but us chickens!" :D
[13:41] Lego Rysios: my question is can you make a group but than you can get Lindens to run it as well.
[13:41] Nathan Adored: er... *Nobody
[13:41] Carol Darkthief: True, but that might be missing the point.
[13:42] Jeremy Linden: Lego, Lindens do not generally run Resident groups.
[13:42] Lego Rysios: But can they? if offered.
[13:42] Jeremy Linden: Heh. I'm not sure how much of the "Chicken and Pig" thing is explained in our documentation. The idea is that the chickens contribute (eggs), but the pig is committed (no turning back, he's bacon!)
[13:43] Nathan Adored: I have a feeling the bar would need to be set fairly high for them to. heh
[13:43] Jeremy Linden: Hi Daniel!
[13:44] Daniel Voyager: Hiya.
[13:44] CPU Core: Did Linden Labs take over Xstreets Group in SL when they took over Xstreet?
[13:44] CPU Core: that may be one example
[13:44] Jeremy Linden: I'm not sure, CPU.
[13:44] Lego Rysios: But can they? if offered.
[13:45] Carol Darkthief: I'm also following the blog-thingy on JIRA, which maybe at the heart oif the communications problems. JIRA currently seems pretty user hostile.
[13:45] CPU Core: Lindens wouldnt take over a group unless there was a great/unique need to
[13:45] Jeremy Linden: I don't know for sure, Lego, but I do not think it is likely.
[13:45] CPU Core: rarely would a Linden ever need to
[13:45] CPU Core: or be needed to
[13:46] Nathan Adored: Raining cats and dogs here. If I suddenly go POOF! you'll know why.
[13:46] Jeremy Linden: Hm. Is anyone else getting horrible chat lag, or is it just me?
[13:46] Nathan Adored: testing 1 2 3
[13:46] CPU Core: for any group that is also a business it is likely there is competitors so Lindens couldnt show they support one group like that
[13:46] Lego Rysios: One of my suggests is the Linden Lab should make a security Team it would Help Second Life be better.
[13:46] Nathan Adored: Nope, seems to be fine for me. Knock wood
[13:46] Jeremy Linden: Yikes, Nathan. Don't step in a poodle.
[13:47] Nathan Adored: ã‹¡
[13:47] CPU Core: There has been security teams that claimed to have LLs support.. not sure how much truth there is to them
[13:47] Nathan Adored: I'd be more concerned about stepping in something..... left by the poodle. (giggles)
[13:47] Carol Darkthief: This Scrum concept seems to depend on finding out what people want. #Iinclude Display_Names (Rant)
[13:47] Lego Rysios: One of my suggests is the Linden Lab should make a security Team it would Help Second Life be better.
[13:48] Jeremy Linden: As far as I know we pointedly do not support "security" groups. Too often, they wind up griefing the griefers, which solves nothing.
[13:48] Nathan Adored: Ah, self-appointed "security teams." I kn ow someone who reaches for the banstick on sight of those types.
[13:49] Lego Rysios: Well if we get Run by Lindens and people that have Clean records i Think it would work
[13:49] CPU Core: I like the League of Justice.. i think they are funny
[13:49] CPU Core: they become part of the attraction for griefers though
[13:49] Nathan Adored: "Power corrupts, and atomic power corrupts atomically." Oh, wait, wrong quote. :D
[13:49] Carol Darkthief: If the Lindens back a security outfit, isn't there a problem with liability?
[13:50] Jeremy Linden: That's probably another reason why we wouldn't, Carol. I'm afraid the idea isn't really up for discussion here.
[13:50] Nathan Adored: Some ppl think of the League of Justice guys as greifers themselves. oO
[13:50] CPU Core: Fighting with the League of Justice is irresistable to a griefer.
[13:51] Nathan Adored: So, greifers fighting griefers. Fun and games! :D Not! OO
[13:51] Carol Darkthief: /me grins at Jeremy and notes the lack of discussion.
[13:51] Carol Darkthief has pinged you.
[13:51] Jeremy Linden: As long as we don't get masked, spandex-wearing super griefers, I'm happy. No matter how good of a screenshot it would make.
[13:52] Nathan Adored: Screengrabs or not, those guys show up on a sim I'm on.... I'm heading for the tall grass before the stuff hits the fan.
[13:52] Carol Darkthief: /me might opass for Emma Peel, in the right light.
[13:53] Nathan Adored: As an innocent bystander, I don't wanna get caught int he crossfire
[13:53] Jeremy Linden: Heh. Carol, what I mean to say is, we can talk about it all we want, but we won't suddenly start backing a security outfit based on what we talk about today.
[13:53] Nathan Adored: /me nods nods nods
[13:54] CPU Core: on youtube you can see griefers posted videos of what they do. They especially like psoting videos of targetting big events and security groups
[13:54] Lego Rysios: Well i think it would worked Becuase it would br run By Lindens than it would worked
[13:54] CPU Core: especially when they have caught the security group/event thats discussing "Serious Business".
[13:55] Jeremy Linden: I think I was in one of the SLCC sessions.
[13:55] Jeremy Linden: Er, one of the ones that got griefed, I mean.
[13:55] CPU Core: i was at 2 of them
[13:55] CPU Core: that was griefed
[13:55] CPU Core: they griefed the real world too??
[13:56] Nathan Adored: probably griefed the in-world part of it
[13:56] Jeremy Linden: It was mixed-reality. The inworld part got griefed. Noise and camera-hogging, mostly.
[13:56] Carol Darkthief: The only griefer attack I ever saw was at NCI Kuula. They don't need outside security.
[13:56] CPU Core: yeah the noise was deafening so couldnt hear the speakers
[13:56] Nathan Adored: /me gives a lopsided smile.
[13:57] Nathan Adored: Okay, NOT I'm getting a spike of chatlag
[13:57] Nathan Adored: *NOW
[13:57] Lego Rysios: and then we could put a office on one of Linden world areas than it would stilll be run by Lindens becuase in Real Life They have secuirity So we should have it and Only Lindens would be running the group.
[13:57] Jeremy Linden: Hi emerson4512. Welcome to Documentation Office Hours.
[13:58] Nathan Adored: and that smile was bout the "camera hogging" comment. heh
[13:58] Carol Darkthief: General Q: are you guys seeing me as clouded?
[13:58] Nathan Adored: Yup. Welcome. Just in time for the end. :D
[13:58] CPU Core: there was a few things that never happen like democracys forming in SL
[13:58] Nathan Adored: I see a tiger furry
[13:58] Lego Rysios: and then we could put a office on one of Linden world areas than it would stilll be run by Lindens becuase in Real Life They have secuirity So we should have it and Only Lindens would be running the group.
[13:58] Jeremy Linden: Nope, Carol. You appear to be a tiger.
[13:58] emerson4512 Deka: trabalho
[13:58] Jeremy Linden: CPU, are you familiar with the Neualtenburg experiment?
[13:59] emerson4512 Deka: sim
[13:59] CPU Core: I also thought Linden Labs was at some point going t have sims able to form communitys that help prevent griefing on neighbours parcels
[13:59] CPU Core: no im not
[13:59] Time Minder: You have been online for 1 hours.
[14:00] Jeremy Linden: Here we go, in the history wiki:
[14:00] Lego Rysios: So i say lets to it
[14:00] CPU Core: all this pretty much needs LLs support
[14:00] emerson4512 Deka: esta bem
[14:01] Jeremy Linden: Sorry emerson, I only understand English.
[14:01] emerson4512 Deka: nao
[14:01] Carol Darkthief: Thanks, Nathan, that's not what my inventory says I am.
[14:01] Nathan Adored: /me checks on his Universal Translator and finds that the batteries have died. Again.
[14:01] Nathan Adored: Carol: What does your inv say you are?
[14:01] Lego Rysios has pinged you.
[14:01] Lego Rysios: So Jeremy how about that idea do you like it
[14:01] Carol Darkthief: /me tries reloading. "I really don't like Viewer 2."
[14:02] Jeremy Linden: Lego, I'm sorry, but I cannot support your idea.
[14:03] emerson4512 Deka: sim
[14:03] Jeremy Linden: Ah, it's past 2:00! I'm cutting here for the transcript.

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