Doc Team/2010-09-01

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[13:00] Daniel Voyager: Hey Jeremy
[13:00] Daniel Voyager has pinged you.
[13:00] Jeremy Linden: Hey all!
[13:00] Lego Rysios: Hi Jeremy
[13:00] Lego Rysios has pinged you.
[13:00] Aelfwine Crystal: /me jumps, "Oh.....hello"
[13:01] Jeremy Linden: How's everyone doing today?
[13:01] Nathan Adored: Any way of knowing how many will be at Oz Lindne's OH right now? I went over here 10 minutes ago and the palce was deserted.
[13:01] Jeremy Linden: Oz can't make it to his office hour today. He had some real-life (outside work) business to take care of.
[13:01] Lego Rysios: i have a question why are some of the linden in the recuting area not there do they send people over there?
[13:01] Nathan Adored: Ah
[13:01] Nathan Adored: Well, just pulled up the map and ONE green dot is on the sim...
[13:02] Jeremy Linden: Lego, I don't really know much about our inworld recruiting center. All available positions at Linden Lab are posted at
[13:02] Lego Rysios: k
[13:03] Lego Rysios: i have another question how is the Teens comeing to main grid how is that going to effect second life
[13:04] Aelfwine Crystal: Is that a "for sure" thing, by the way?
[13:04] Jeremy Linden: I can't make that prediction, Lego, but you can find some information here:
[13:05] Jeremy Linden: In short, what I know is that 16 and 17 year old teens will be moved to the main grid before the end of the year, and the TSL grid will be taken offline and frozen. 13-15 year olds will be able to reclaim their accounts when they turn 16.
[13:05] Aelfwine Crystal: cringes, "And things are in place to keep them off Mature land?'
[13:06] Jeremy Linden: They're going to be restricted to G-rated regions only.
[13:06] Aelfwine Crystal: And adult rules are going to actually be enforced?
[13:06] Aelfwine Crystal: Oh...I dont quite see how, but alright
[13:07] Adamburp Adamczyk: hi everyone, sorry a bit late
[13:07] Jeremy Linden: I don't have access to the technical details, sorry. I just know what we've released as public information :-)
[13:07] Lego Rysios: now they can tranfer at anytiime correct
[13:07] Aelfwine Crystal: I mean, wasnt that the problem before..why they didnt just do that in the first place instead of move all "adult" places? ( I say "All" lightly, since there are hundreds NOT mopved)
[13:08] Aelfwine Crystal: If they could have just made it so you couldnt go to Mature rated land unless you were verified....*shakes her head
[13:08] Jeremy Linden: I don't know exactly how the transfer will happen, Lego. I think Teens will be transferred by Linden Lab on our side.
[13:09] Lego Rysios: k
[13:09] Nathan Adored: Interestingly tho, aren't there also Mature/Moderate and PG/General sims on Zinda? Will the teens have access to the PG/G sims THERE?
[13:10] Jeremy Linden: You know, I'm not sure. I'm going to see if I can pull in some reinforcements to help answer these questions :-)
[13:10] Lego Rysios: Now what time will it happen on Dec 31?
[13:10] Aelfwine Crystal: Sorry Nathan, Zindra is JUST rated Adult
[13:10] Adamburp Adamczyk: /me jeremy runs off to grab a coffee
[13:10] Adamburp Adamczyk has pinged you.
[13:10] Lego Rysios: Now what time will it happen on Dec 31?
[13:10] Aelfwine Crystal: Yet notice how a search on JUST PG brings up Mature AND PG
[13:11] Jeremy Linden: Lego, I don't know the exact time.
[13:11] Lego Rysios: k
[13:11] Aelfwine Crystal: LL made a mess of this.....if they could have just kept non verified off Mature....the whole thing stinks of a big fat lie, that they KNEW they were merging grids
[13:11] Lego Rysios: Now in the final hours of the teen grid what will the Linden lab do?
[13:12] Jeremy Linden: Lego, I don't know.
[13:12] Lego Rysios: k
[13:12] Nathan Adored: There have been a lot of other bungled and heavyhanded things done by LL in recent times, too... their recent heavihanded actions with Emerald that came to light in recent hours.
[13:13] Adamburp Adamczyk: point of order re emerald
[13:13] Nathan Adored: for instance
[13:13] Adamburp Adamczyk: if ll hgad taken NO action what would we all be saying?
[13:13] Jeremy Linden: Folks, I'm fine with discussing these issues, but please remember that my role at Linden Lab is as a technical writer. It's my job to write content for online help resources to help people learn how to use SL. That's what I know best :-)
[13:13] Adamburp Adamczyk: catch 22 for ll on this, damned if they do, damnded if they don;t
[13:13] Aelfwine Crystal: Well, from what I understand bout Emerald, sadly, maybe it wasnt undeserved with the Emerald team hiding code
[13:14] Lego Rysios: Now it sad that there closeing the teen grid becuase i still think they should keep it.
[13:14] Adamburp Adamczyk: jeremy dont deserve a grilling on emreald
[13:14] Adamburp Adamczyk has pinged you.
[13:14] Adamburp Adamczyk: not his area
[13:14] Jeremy Linden: Heh. I'm actually not even allowed to use third party viewers on any computer I use for work.
[13:15] Aelfwine Crystal: Well, they could have told the truth, which to me , is clear they didn't. If they could have "seperated" the Mature and PG lands, then they didnt have to shove people to Zindra. Now it's HIGHLY tipped the scale to anyplace NOT Zindra with search and all. They had to have known they were going to merge the grids, I highly suspect
[13:15] Lego Rysios: Now how will they tranfer everyone to the main grid on dec 31 what will they do do you know?
[13:16] Nathan Adored: Aelfwine: They'd JUST created a whole new team and were working towards a totally open-to-all-to-see mechanism for moving it forward, with no possibility of stuff being hidden int he code anymore.
[13:16] Lego Rysios: Now how will they tranfer everyone to the main grid on dec 31 what will they do do you know?
[13:16] Aelfwine Crystal: (Ah, I surely dont know enough about Emerald, I cede that...and I have to run an errand, to run)
[13:17] Jeremy Linden: Thanks for coming, Aelfwine.
[13:17] Aelfwine Crystal: /me bows
[13:18] Lego Rysios: Now how will they tranfer everyone to the main grid on dec 31 what will they do do you know?
[13:18] Aelfwine Crystal: (Just FYI...anyone do a places search, and use say, the term "bdsm*" with the asterisk, PG only, and see how much pops up)
[13:18] Nathan Adored: (Do I WANNA know how many pop up under that search criteria? WIll it give me the heebeejeebees? Oo )
[13:19] Adamburp Adamczyk: onigokko
[13:19] Lego Rysios: and how will they do it will they just be able to tranfer or will they just tranfered everyone at the same time
[13:20] Adamburp Adamczyk: who knows, but i'll still be keeping my orb on
[13:20] Jeremy Linden: Ok guys, I'm told that the answers to a lot of these specific questions about the TSL move will be answered collectively in the near future. The folks organizing the move are collecting information and questions, and they'd like to clarify as much as they can in one big push.
[13:21] Lego Rysios: ok
[13:21] Jeremy Linden: Which unfortunately means that I won't really be able to provide satisfying answers on that subject here today. Sorry! :-(
[13:21] Adamburp Adamczyk: jeremy - is it true thte ontynes are going?
[13:21] Adamburp Adamczyk has pinged you.
[13:22] Adamburp Adamczyk: if you know
[13:22] Bronson Blackadder: my one and only experience with an ontyne was good
[13:22] Bronson Blackadder: sim restart request
[13:22] Lego Rysios: got to go see you later everyone
[13:22] Jeremy Linden: Thanks for coming, Lego.
[13:23] Roger Heungsung: where is torley today?
[13:23] Jeremy Linden: I'm not sure how much I can say about the Ontyne situation, to tell the truth.
[13:23] Adamburp Adamczyk: if any of you ae from the uk , then the ontynes are actually based in newcastle upon tyne, hence the name
[13:23] Adamburp Adamczyk: no worries Jeremy
[13:23] Adamburp Adamczyk has pinged you.
[13:23] Jeremy Linden: Hey Roger. Torley isn't on the Documentation Team anymore. He still works at Linden Lab, but he's using his talets to help out a different team.
[13:24] Jeremy Linden: Talents, I mean :-)
[13:24] Nathan Adored: I do miss Torley being here. He was fun. :D
[13:24] Nathan Adored: at the DoCTeam OH, I mean
[13:24] Jeremy Linden: Indeed! Torley is awesome.
[13:24] Adamburp Adamczyk: i always rember upsetting torley
[13:24] Roger Heungsung: aww
[13:24] Adamburp Adamczyk: quite unintentionally i'll add
[13:24] Nathan Adored: I love the qoofy lines he tweets.
[13:24] Roger Heungsung: dose he still have office hours?
[13:25] Jeremy Linden: He did say he'd stop in here occasionally anyway, but I imagine he's super-busy lately. I know I have been.
[13:25] Nathan Adored: er... goofy, even
[13:25] Adamburp Adamczyk: one day he was saying people sepell his name wrong as "trolley"
[13:25] Jeremy Linden: Doh.
[13:25] Roger Heungsung: haha i said it like that for a wile
[13:25] Adamburp Adamczyk: but where i am, "trolley" is a slang word for underpants
[13:25] Nathan Adored: Deliberately or inadventantly? oO
[13:25] Adamburp Adamczyk: not deliberatley nathan, no
[13:26] Nathan Adored: Oh? How are underpants like a streetcar? :D
[13:26] Adamburp Adamczyk: regional slang nathan
[13:27] Nathan Adored: /me wonders if anyone makes undepants with pictures of streetcars on them there, to have fun with the words being the same.
[13:27] Jeremy Linden: It's a good thing slang doesn't work both ways.
[13:27] Adamburp Adamczyk: true
[13:27] Nathan Adored: /me nods nods nods
[13:27] Bronson Blackadder: an underpants named desire
[13:27] Nathan Adored: LOL
[13:27] Jeremy Linden: Yep.
[13:27] Adamburp Adamczyk: *✰* UNDERPANTS! *✰*
[13:27] Jeremy Linden: Sounds Zindra-tastic!
[13:28] Bronson Blackadder: trolleytastic
[13:28] Adamburp Adamczyk: frim an urban dictionary, last i'll say n it: trolleys n. n. n. Kecks; underpants.
[13:28] Jeremy Linden: It's a triple-noun?
[13:29] Roger Heungsung: lol
[13:29] Adamburp Adamczyk: hop skip and jump if you will?
[13:29] Adamburp Adamczyk: for the triple :)
[13:30] Nathan Adored: /me wonders if he should go grab a Captain Underpants costume and go ride a streetcar.
[13:30] Jeremy Linden: So, switching to topics I know about: Is anyone here using Viewer 2 regularly?
[13:30] Adamburp Adamczyk: not i
[13:30] Adamburp Adamczyk: nope
[13:30] Roger Heungsung: i use it a little, but i mainly use kirstens
[13:31] Kaluura Boa: When LL will pay me to...
[13:31] Roger Heungsung: im on it now
[13:31] Jeremy Linden: Hm. Interesting.
[13:31] Bronson Blackadder: I use V2 alot
[13:32] Bronson Blackadder: bitched about it heavily from teh start
[13:32] karlos Claremont: oo
[13:32] Jeremy Linden: Low adoption has actually created an interesting dilemma for the doc team. We introduced a new feature (viewer help) in Viewer 2, but it's been hard for us to gauge how much people have been using it, since not everyone uses Viewer 2 :-)
[13:32] Liisa Runo: /me waits 3 years for LL to fix the major failures in v2 before trying it again
[13:32] Bronson Blackadder: bitching becoming less with each improvement
[13:32] karlos Claremont: bueno me jalo
[13:32] karlos Claremont: no hay ningun
[13:32] karlos Claremont: latino akii
[13:32] karlos Claremont: pz
[13:32] karlos Claremont: !!
[13:32] Jeremy Linden: I'm sorry karlos, I only understand English.
[13:32] Kaluura Boa: Spanish*
[13:32] Nathan Adored: Any chance they'll have a means of the user changing out the GUI on it at their whim to one closer to the classic GUI?
[13:33] Bronson Blackadder: they are working on possibilities in regards to that
[13:33] Jeremy Linden: That sounds like a question for Oz or Snowstorm, Nathan. I bet it would be a good feature request for them to put on their backlog, if it's not already there.
[13:33] Bronson Blackadder: but that will be with project snowstorm
[13:34] Liisa Runo: it is already there
[13:34] Nathan Adored: Oh, I'm sure plenty of ppl have reque--- er, actually DEMANDED that... :D
[13:34] Bronson Blackadder: yes, alot of people are ok with teh underlaying code and features
[13:34] Bronson Blackadder: its mostly teh crappy UI that is killing V2
[13:34] Jeremy Linden: I'm not 100% clear on *exactly* how Snowstorm is operating, but my understanding is that Residents get to help prioritize features in the backlog.
[13:35] Nathan Adored: Any idea when the first iteratation of the Snowstorm viewer will be out, as somerthing other than a beta?
[13:35] Bronson Blackadder: its not really a viewer per se
[13:35] Bronson Blackadder: it will always be a "beta"
[13:35] Bronson Blackadder: because it will be rapidly evolving
[13:36] Jeremy Linden: I'm not the best person to ask about that, Bronson. My understanding of Snowstorm comes from Oz and Esbee's keynote at SLCC :-)
[13:36] Bronson Blackadder: I didnt ask
[13:36] Bronson Blackadder: Im saying
[13:36] Bronson Blackadder: nathan asked
[13:36] Nathan Adored: Okay, lemme rephrase that. Any idea when the first viewer based on the Snowstorm project and that is complete and usable will be out?
[13:36] Jeremy Linden: Sorry, got some wires crossed.
[13:36] Bronson Blackadder: ll
[13:36] Bronson Blackadder: o
[13:37] Bronson Blackadder: just keep checking weekly nathan
[13:37] Jeremy Linden: Nathan, I think Oz claimed that there was one available as of the time of his Keynote at SLCC.
[13:37] Bronson Blackadder: have you seen teh snowstorm wiki page?
[13:37] Nathan Adored: nope. linky?
[13:37] Jeremy Linden: They make them available frequently. Daily, I think, if you dig deep enough.
[13:37] Bronson Blackadder: ah let me look
[13:37] Ellla McMahon:
[13:37] Nathan Adored: ty
[13:38] Ellla McMahon: there#'s a link on that page to the latest build
[13:38] Bronson Blackadder:
[13:38] Bronson Blackadder: yeah what Ellla posted
[13:38] Bronson Blackadder: but check often
[13:39] Nathan Adored: both those get redirected to Project Snowstorm
[13:39] Nathan Adored:
[13:40] Bronson Blackadder: try this one
[13:40] Bronson Blackadder:
[13:41] Nathan Adored: /me checks the map to Oz's office.... green dots have all left.
[13:42] Jeremy Linden: Yeah, as I said earlier, Oz couldn't make it to his office hour today because he had an outside-work commitment to attend to.
[13:42] Bronson Blackadder: if you happen to ever go to one of the scrums
[13:42] Bronson Blackadder: lol
[13:42] Bronson Blackadder: its wise to not say anything unless you are a commiter and its your turn
[13:43] Jeremy Linden: Has anyone brought up any online help or documentation items for the backlog?
[13:44] Jeremy Linden: (I'm not on Snowstorm, but I'm curious how they're handling it.)
[13:44] Bronson Blackadder: I wish I could tell you
[13:44] Ellla McMahon: I did
[13:44] Roger Heungsung: got to go folks
[13:44] Roger Heungsung: cya :)
[13:44] Jeremy Linden: Thanks for coming, Roger.
[13:45] Ellla McMahon: I mentioned to Esbee that on the subtasks that are linked to User Stories ther should be awareness IF there's a need for documentation
[13:45] Jeremy Linden: Cool, Ellla. I'm glad someone's keeping documentation in mind when it comes to new features :-)
[13:45] Ellla McMahon: And
[13:45] Ellla McMahon: there is also a case where a User Stories is decided to be Expected Behaviour .. why were Residents not aware of it
[13:46] Ellla McMahon: so hopefully the Doc Team will get 'poked' in those cases
[13:46] Jeremy Linden: I'm not sure I understand, but I know I had a short chat with Esbee on Doc Team involvement in Snowstorm, and I think Jon's been talking to her as well.
[13:47] Jeremy Linden: Hopefully we'll be able to provide good coverage on changes to the Viewer as they come in!
[13:47] Ellla McMahon: example: at Nyx's OH there was talk about multiple layers and how replace and add work differently
[13:48] Ellla McMahon: it was more of a misunderstanding than a bug/new feature
[13:48] Ellla McMahon: so Why is there a misunderstanding ?
[13:48] Jeremy Linden: Ah, I see.
[13:48] Ellla McMahon: I would suggest that documentation needs to be clearer / more visible
[13:49] Jeremy Linden: I certainly agree in both cases. My current project is to do both those things :-)
[13:50] Jeremy Linden: I'm in the process of cleaning up a copy of the existing KB, making sure it's updated, and making it leaner, prettier, and more useful.
[13:50] Ellla McMahon: I think your job might be easier when JIRA is updated next week
[13:50] Liisa Runo: Jira 4 ?=
[13:51] Ellla McMahon: Snowstorm issues/tasks will be clearer to outsort from the rest
[13:51] Ellla McMahon: yes 4.1 I think
[13:51] Liisa Runo: cool, im happy to get new jira, i hope it is good
[13:51] Jeremy Linden: In the future, certainly. I hope to start taking documentation update requests via Jira. Viewerhelp bugs and issues may even get to be assigned as VWR :-)
[13:52] Ellla McMahon: Jeremy do you want some bugs re old KB links ?
[13:52] Ellla McMahon has pinged you.
[13:52] Jeremy Linden: Hm. I found a few of those on the website today.
[13:52] Ellla McMahon: aah
[13:52] Kaluura Boa:
[13:52] Jeremy Linden: Thanks for letting me know, though. I'm not sure who that should be assigned to; Doc Team doesn't have edit power on the website.
[13:53] Kaluura Boa: If you google it, you'll even find videos...
[13:53] Ellla McMahon: its a Meta issue with links to the broken links that have been spotted by Res.
[13:53] Ellla McMahon: probably Yoz I'll mention it at his OH
[13:53] Ellla McMahon: the redirect from old KB is finished ?
[13:54] Jeremy Linden: The old KB should no longer exist. I think it was completely discontinued a few months ago, which may have broken the redirects.
[13:55] Nathan Adored: crickets
[13:56] Jeremy Linden: Sorry, I'm just reporting some of this internally before I forget :-)
[13:56] Ellla McMahon: yes the redirects are broken :(
[13:56] Time Minder: You have been online for 1 hours.
[13:56] Nathan Adored: Ain't technology wunnerful? :D :D :D
[13:57] Jeremy Linden: The technology is awesome. It's when we try to carry all our baggage over from one technology to another that problems arise :-)
[13:57] Nathan Adored: /me nods nods nods
[13:58] Jeremy Linden: Alright, we seem to be in a lull now. If nobody minds, I think I'll cut here for the transcript!

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