Mesh/Archive/2011-07-18

From Second Life Wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Agenda

  1. Experiment (physics weight) indicates that physics shape type is now silently switched to Convex Hull when any object dimension is less than 0.5m. Can you confirm this and/or provide more information on this? [Drongle McMahon]
  2. Is there or will there be a limit on how far shadows will be projected down to the ground apart from setting View Distance to minimum. eg: Runitai's sim wide mesh landscape/road on MSB21 at 200m AGL casts shadows over entire sims. Will there be a fixed limit on projection of shadows onto the ground on the mainland to stop skyboxes showing up and blocking the sun/moon but allowing greater horizontal visibility? [Chodai Yoshikawa] (OK not strictly mesh but as we are using next generation sims/viewers this is going to be the norm?)
  3. Is the license of the llm file of the Viewer LGPL? Or is it CC BY 3.0? I sent a e-mail to Nyx, but I have no reply. [Yuzuru Jewell]
  4. Why is it that the default name of the object name of uploaded mesh was changed into "mesh model" from the geometry name of the Collada file? [Yuzuru Jewell]
  5. Is it correct that any sculpt added into a linkset containing mesh will be accounted as mesh and no longer as a single sculpt prim? [Eleanora Newell]
  6. Are we there yet? Grins... [Vivienne Daguerre].

Meeting Notes

Transcript for Monday July 18, 2011

[12:03] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) Wolfpup doing his best impression of a HAL9000 computer 'Hello Dave'
[12:04] Tammy Nowotny my voixe just crashed
[12:04] Rusalka Writer Try wearing one of the new avis— the Ferrari, the Volkswagen— How's copyright clearance going on those?
[12:04] davep (runitai.linden) no, text only
[12:04] davep (runitai.linden) charlie forgot to go to group chat
[12:04] EzY McAlpine hehe
[12:05] davep (runitai.linden) (we talk among ourselves behind your back during the user group)
[12:05] Charlar Linden Oops!
[12:05] EzY McAlpine lol
[12:05] Rusalka Writer Well, Prep was lurking behind the fireplace.
[12:05] Rusalka Writer Yeah, ask the Invisible Lawyer, Jeffrey or whatever.
[12:05] Prep Linden yoyo folks
[12:05] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) I can't see Charlar and Prep...
[12:05] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) i have some thing but i do not know if it would be right to discuss here though
[12:05] Charlar Linden Ok, let's start
[12:05] Rusalka Writer I have some links to Ferrari, I could ask them.
[12:06] Charlar Linden First item:
[12:06] Charlar Linden 1: Experiment (physics weight) indicates that physics shape type is now silently switched to Convex Hull when any object dimension is less than 0.5m. Can you confirm this and/or provide more information on this? [Drongle McMahon]
[12:07] Charlar Linden Yes, i believe this is true.
[12:07] Charlar Linden as for adding detail, do you have specific questions?
[12:08] Charlar Linden I believe it's efficiency related...
[12:08] Drongle McMahon Just why it changed ... used to be a smaller limit, I think?
[12:08] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) I couldn't check it, because my display turned black when i checked render metadata - physics shape..
[12:08] Charlar Linden I can get more info later and post to forum.
[12:08] Drongle McMahon ok
[12:09] Charlar Linden Nyx knows more specifics, and he's out today
[12:09] Tammy Nowotny here egoes
[12:09] Drongle McMahon I guess Falcon might put it in his promised new documentation.
[12:09] Rusalka Writer We like talk of documentation.
[12:09] Charlar Linden he might
[12:10] Charlar Linden next?
[12:10] Charlar Linden 2.Is there or will there be a limit on how far shadows will be projected down to the ground apart from setting View Distance to minimum. eg: Runitai's sim wide mesh landscape/road on MSB21 at 200m AGL casts shadows over entire sims. Will there be a fixed limit on projection of shadows onto the ground on the mainland to stop skyboxes showing up and blocking the sun/moon but allowing greater horizontal visibility? [Chodai Yoshikawa] (OK not strictly mesh but as we are using next generation sims/viewers this is going to be the norm?)
[12:10] davep (runitai.linden) There's no plan to add a limit at this time
[12:10] Rusalka Writer Hmmm.
[12:11] davep (runitai.linden) whenever I try, it creates uglier artifacts than shadows from far away
[12:11] davep (runitai.linden) (like the shadow just disappears and reappears seamingly randomly at some distances)
[12:12] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) Is it depends on display distance?
[12:12] davep (runitai.linden) unfortunately, no -- the sim interest list isn't z-aware
[12:12] davep (runitai.linden) and for shadows to stay consistant as you move the camera around, the shadow camera needs to include all objects the viewer is aware of
[12:12] EzY McAlpine what about a "do not generate shadows" tickbox for prims
[12:13] davep (runitai.linden) that would be good, but would require a protocol change to include the information (the existing protocol does send a flag for this, but it's defunct)
[12:13] Drongle McMahon Who crashed me?
[12:14] Rusalka Writer You know too much, Mr. McMahon.
[12:14] Rusalka Writer It had to be done.
[12:14] AaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaA (nodster.tardis) well that was crashtastic
[12:15] Charlar Linden related to collision - we got permission to post this Havok doc: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Best-practices-for-creating-efficient-collision-volumes/ta-p/984115
[12:15] Charlar Linden next
[12:16] Charlar Linden 3. Is the license of the llm file of the Viewer LGPL? Or is it CC BY 3.0? I sent a e-mail to Nyx, but I have no reply. [Yuzuru Jewell]
[12:16] Charlar Linden I'll follow up with Nyx.
[12:17] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) Please tell about it to Nyx..
[12:17] Charlar Linden I will
[12:17] davep (runitai.linden) all this missing body parts in the crowd is kinda disconcerting -- is that a bug or just incomplete content?
[12:17] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) Thank you.
[12:17] Charlar Linden and we'll get an answer to you all. I need to look it up.
[12:18] Rusalka Writer What missing parts?
[12:18] Mikki Miles it happens all the time
[12:18] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) OK. thank you.
[12:18] Lazy (lazy.spectre) seems to happen alot in this sim,things just stop downloading
[12:18] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) I can't see some body parts..
[12:18] Drongle McMahon Charlar was visible before I crashed .... now gone
[12:18] Tammy Nowotny happening to me; but I assumed it was on my end.
[12:19] davep (runitai.linden) like, Mikki miles has no legs or upper arms
[12:19] Skygirl Kline I am seeing a few
[12:19] Jusden Jonstone i seem to see most everyone just fine:)
[12:19] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) I can't see Charlar and Prep.
[12:19] Maxwell Graf im thinking that must be an alpha
[12:19] Skygirl Kline mikki and Yabusaka
[12:19] Graham Dartmouth I see plenty of missing parts
[12:19] davep (runitai.linden) Vivienne has no thighs
[12:19] Skygirl Kline alphas prop
[12:20] Rusalka Writer I see the problem with Mikki, and can't see Vivienne's knees, but everybody else is fine.
[12:20] Maxwell Graf hey oob
[12:20] oobscure (opensource.obscure) oobscure waves
[12:20] Vivienne Daguerre you are not seeing my mesh skirt then... and are seeing alpha'd areas of my avatar
[12:20] Fenix Eldritch Yabusaka's got some oddity going on with her hands forearms and neck too..
[12:20] Rusalka Writer I see the skirt.
[12:21] davep (runitai.linden) better than not seeing the skirt and seeing the alpha'd parts
[12:21] Vivienne Daguerre oh my.... grins
[12:21] Yabusaka Loon I'm wearing mesh body + mesh clothing with alpha
[12:21] Charlar Linden and moving on
[12:21] AaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaA (nodster.tardis) hmmm half rezzed people, missing chair things below me, voice not working yep i am in for a good day on SL
[12:21] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) I can see Vivienne's legs and hands and head.
[12:21] Graham Dartmouth prep's toes are missing too
[12:21] Charlar Linden 4. Why is it that the default name of the object name of uploaded mesh was changed into "mesh model" from the geometry name of the Collada file? [Yuzuru Jewell]
[12:21] Yabusaka Loon might be z-buffering error?
[12:21] Rusalka Writer Ah, so I think I'm seeing all the mesh.
[12:22] davep (runitai.linden) oh, that's an SLM bug
[12:22] davep (runitai.linden) we cache what you uploaded last and reload that
[12:22] davep (runitai.linden) and the cahced version doesn't include the original name
[12:22] Tammy Nowotny the clock in the veiwer toolbar is 12 seconds slow
[12:22] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) uuu
[12:22] Tammy Nowotny I filed a Jira on this the last time I was at one of these meetings--- but it was marked "Will Not Fix."
[12:22] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) next version wlll be changed?
[12:23] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) updated?
[12:23] davep (runitai.linden) Yuzuru: probably not next version -- of the bugs we have to fix, that one is kinda low priority
[12:23] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) It is important to write tutorials.
[12:24] Rusalka Writer Agrees.
[12:24] Charlar Linden Tammy - we have that as part of another item, scheduled for a follow up release
[12:24] davep (runitai.linden) I see -- kk, will try to get that fixed soon
[12:24] Tammy Nowotny TY, it's not a big deal, probably
[12:25] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) Thank you, Runitai.
[12:25] Charlar Linden next item
[12:25] AaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaA (nodster.tardis) ah there we go i see people and objects now
[12:25] Charlar Linden 5. Is it correct that any sculpt added into a linkset containing mesh will be accounted as mesh and no longer as a single sculpt prim? [Eleanora Newell]
[12:25] Bunnie Mills awww
[12:25] Rusalka Writer Dang.
[12:26] davep (runitai.linden) it's currently true, but we're talking about changing that behavior, but it probably will be the way it is now for the first release
[12:26] Rusalka Writer Will ARC be ready for the first release?
[12:27] Charlar Linden Not currently, but very soon after. It's important to us.
[12:27] Rusalka Writer To would-be avatar creators, too.
[12:27] Charlar Linden absolutely
[12:27] Bizzy Cooljoke Hello everyone. I have created a car in the mesh grid which the parts equaled 14 prims before i linked them. Once the items were linked together they were 42 prims? Anybody know why it is doing this?
[12:27] Rusalka Writer Groovy. Send it with the pony.
[12:28] Charlar Linden That's all the agenda items...
[12:28] Vivienne Daguerre I snuck in one more...
[12:28] Charlar Linden oh dear
[12:28] Vivienne Daguerre hehe
[12:28] Charlar Linden Answer - no.
[12:28] Vivienne Daguerre I have been good for so long, I just had to do it...
[12:28] Charlar Linden guess what teh question is
[12:29] Charlar Linden We are getting close. It's always darkest before the dawn
[12:29] Charlar Linden :-)
[12:29] Mesh Release 13 days to mesh fpr main grid ?
[12:29] davep (runitai.linden) Bizzy: toss me a copy of the car?
[12:29] Rusalka Writer July of which year?
[12:29] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) Thank you for upload fee reduction
[12:29] Eleanora Newell has mesh been selectively released yet on the main grid?
[12:29] Rusalka Writer Is there a mesh sim you'd most like us to crash?
[12:29] Vivienne Daguerre Yes, fees are much more reasonable, thank you :D
[12:29] Charlar Linden The blog post said we were aiming for July (of this year for all the smartasses), and we're still on track.
[12:30] Drongle McMahon Are there any show-stoppers left?
[12:30] Rusalka Writer ; )
[12:30] Angel (angel.alphaville) cheers for this Lindens
[12:30] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) It is good news for low polygon mesh.
[12:30] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) i have a question concerning mesh and opensource
[12:30] Bunnie Mills some documentation is urgent to have : )
[12:30] Vincent Nacon half way there
[12:30] Skygirl Kline lol
[12:30] AaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaA (nodster.tardis) can i run a book on that date? oh wait gambling is banned sigh
[12:30] Vincent Nacon good thing my birthday is on 30th this month, make it count!
[12:30] Tammy Nowotny what will happen during the yeras when the old residents refuse to switch viewers?
[12:30] Rusalka Writer Are you killing 1.23 at last?
[12:30] Charlar Linden THe lowered cost is for our initial rollout, btw.
[12:31] AaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaA (nodster.tardis) please kill 1.23
[12:31] Charlar Linden Rusalka, et al - is that somethign you all want?
[12:31] EzY McAlpine yeah we noticed the upload cost has gone down on stuff
[12:31] Charlar Linden killing 1.x?
[12:31] Drongle McMahon You mean it's going up later?
[12:31] Rusalka Writer So upload every bit of mesh crap as fast as we can when it goes to the main grid?
[12:31] Vivienne Daguerre No, let it die a natural death
[12:31] Rusalka Writer Noted.
[12:31] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) if 1.23 is killed then about 66% of all TPV's will no longer function
[12:31] Fenix Eldritch which cose was that? Upload or PE?
[12:31] Skygirl Kline it will take a year or so for mesh to cover main grid
[12:31] Angel (angel.alphaville) well, you gained back at least 10 people from me when I told them the good news
[12:31] Rusalka Writer 1.23 has become a religion. Kill it with fire.
[12:32] AaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaA (nodster.tardis) wait its for the "inital" roll out is there a time frame of when it will go back up and should we upload like crazy not to get stung afterwards
[12:32] Eleanora Newell what is the cost now?
[12:32] Charlar Linden Rusalka - I'd advise skipping the crappy mesh and focusing on your good stuff. :-)
[12:32] Drongle McMahon The L$150 was mad.
[12:32] Rusalka Writer Dang.
[12:32] Charlar Linden We're testing
[12:32] Rusalka Writer Where can I get good stuff?
[12:32] Rusalka Writer All I have is my stuff. : (
[12:32] EzY McAlpine So the upload charges as they are at present a not the final costs then?
[12:33] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) The upload fee was reduced.
[12:33] Charlar Linden Costs may change once we're fully rolled out to all of maingrid.
[12:33] davep (runitai.linden) Bizzy: I get 140 unlinked and 117 linked
[12:33] Rusalka Writer I wasn't even seeing prim counts on the main grid last week.
[12:33] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) up or down?
[12:33] Drongle McMahon I need to put my agenda question back
[12:33] Charlar Linden I wanted to help make it easy for you all to put all your good stuff up in august
[12:33] Bizzy Cooljoke hmmmmm
[12:34] Graham Dartmouth so we have a speculative market as to when to upload?
[12:34] Rusalka Writer On the land I can't afford, I guess.
[12:34] Tammy Nowotny this sounds like a scheme to get us spending L$ againagain
[12:34] Tammy Nowotny naybe we cd have a market in upload credits
[12:34] Rusalka Writer Are you going to have a mesh display sim on the main grid?
[12:34] Charlar Linden tammy, did you stop spending $L?
[12:34] Bizzy Cooljoke vertices dave?
[12:34] Tammy Nowotny well, I try to get others to pay me,
[12:35] Rusalka Writer I share this goal.
[12:35] Drongle McMahon If you put it back up, it costs 80x as much to upload 64 meshes separately as uploading them together and unlinking. That was ridiculous.
[12:35] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) you can't spend them if you do not have them in the first place :)
[12:35] Charlar Linden We'll announce what's going to happen with the Maingrid channels very soon.
[12:35] Tammy Nowotny I buy & sell land a lot... but buying stuff--- not that often, really.
[12:35] Vivienne Daguerre *bounces up and down!*
[12:35] davep (runitai.linden) Bizzy: about 11 thousand triangles
[12:35] Bizzy Cooljoke ok
[12:35] MaxTux Wonder runitai, charlar, what about: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SH-1960
[12:35] MaxTux Wonder when will be fixed?
[12:35] Charlar Linden Drongle - We got your feedback, and we're trying to incorporate it.
[12:36] Rusalka Writer *clutches remaining tier close*
[12:36] Skygirl Kline wow i have to be certified to upload now
[12:36] davep (runitai.linden) MaxTux: it's not on the schedule yet
[12:37] Skygirl Kline (behind the times sorry)
[12:37] davep (runitai.linden) so probably post initial release
[12:37] MaxTux Wonder i see, thanks
[12:37] Rusalka Writer You have to pass the Limit-LL's-Liability Test first.
[12:37] Skygirl Kline ok )
[12:37] AaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaAaA (nodster.tardis) which is all NO, No you cant, no you should not answers ;)
[12:38] Rusalka Writer Just assume you can't use or mention anybody else's anything and you'll do fine.
[12:38] Drongle McMahon I hope having z as well as x & y dimensions on the uploader is on the schedule :-)
[12:38] Skygirl Kline yep
[12:38] Rusalka Writer Pay no attention to the new vehicle avatars.
[12:38] Maxwell Graf Dave, I put up the jira request for a mesh deformer, as you requested.
[12:38] Vincent Nacon Bad Rusalka
[12:38] Maxwell Graf *nudge*
[12:38] Rusalka Writer I gotta be me.
[12:39] Rusalka Writer Although there is an appeal to being a Ferrari F-40.
[12:39] Maniac Choche without mesh deformer it will be really hard for the customers ..
[12:39] Maniac Choche i vote for this with both hands
[12:40] Rusalka Writer We could just sell mesh No Modify, Don't Touch It, This Means You!
[12:40] Maniac Choche :)))
[12:40] Mikki Miles that's why we don't get extra bones - not to be able to vote with four hands
[12:40] Maniac Choche haha
[12:40] Vivienne Daguerre hehe
[12:40] Maxwell Graf maniac has mesh jazz hands. THose count more.
[12:41] Rusalka Writer So will we be having a mesh release party?
[12:41] Charlar Linden Anyone here going to SLCC?
[12:41] Vivienne Daguerre no, we will all be too busy uploading, :P hehe
[12:41] Rusalka Writer With cake and ponies?
[12:41] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) it is like Kannon-with-One-Thousand-Arms.
[12:42] Rusalka Writer SLCC? The real-life conference?
[12:42] MaxTux Wonder please lindens take a look on this too, i think is a severe issue:
[12:42] Charlar Linden y
[12:42] MaxTux Wonder https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS-701
[12:42] Rusalka Writer I was at SFO last week. That's as close as I got.
[12:42] Charlar Linden looking...
[12:42] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) I want to join it. But it is very far..
[12:43] Rusalka Writer I'd go if I had a bunny suit.
[12:43] Vivienne Daguerre I am hoping we don't have to wait for SLCC for release :P
[12:43] Maniac Choche i confirm the this jira too, it happed to me today
[12:43] Charlar Linden I think we have an internal item for CTS-701 already
[12:43] MaxTux Wonder oh i did a duplicate? sorry :D
[12:44] MaxTux Wonder will be fixed?
[12:44] Drongle McMahon Internal means we can't see it, usually.
[12:44] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) is there going to be any hope for OS developers when mesh gose live?
[12:44] Maniac Choche btw does Joint position check box works at all ? I tried with it and without it on a mesh with moved joins and i see no difference. I stil lcan control both from my apparance sliders?
[12:44] Vincent Nacon not likely, Wolf
[12:44] Prep Linden maniac: it does
[12:44] Charlar Linden drongle - I know
[12:45] davep (runitai.linden) Maniac: it clearly worked for donot.release
[12:45] Maniac Choche in the preview all looks fine, but i though this "locks" the join positions
[12:45] Rusalka Writer Works for me. I think.
[12:45] Maniac Choche hmm
[12:45] Prep Linden Move one of your bones and export it - you should see a differeence in the preview window.
[12:45] Maniac Choche maybe the problem is in my tv :)
[12:45] Charlar Linden When we triage we'll probably link them up. I'm not sure it's as clearcut as 701 says
[12:45] Prep Linden time go from analog to digital then.
[12:45] Rusalka Writer Is the Mac Open GL bug fixed? I haven't tried it yet.
[12:45] Maniac Choche yep i did that , my hands was made longer , but i can still change them from apparance
[12:46] davep (runitai.linden) Rusalka: still working on it
[12:46] Rusalka Writer Groovy.
[12:46] Yabusaka Loon Is there an update for Linden AV mesh license?
[12:46] Rusalka Writer Didn't want to crash the meeting.
[12:46] davep (runitai.linden) somebody said something about open source?
[12:46] Rusalka Writer Yes, what about the armature?
[12:46] Charlar Linden I don't have an update for you Yabusaka
[12:46] Yabusaka Loon k
[12:47] Rusalka Writer Since there's no choice about using the armature at present.
[12:47] Charlar Linden I'll have to post on the forum
[12:47] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) yes me runtinai
[12:47] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) Wolfpup is an OS dev
[12:47] davep (runitai.linden) what's the concern?
[12:47] Yabusaka Loon It would be good if we could download Linden AV mesh file with skinning & morphs
[12:48] Maniac Choche http://wiz-bg.blogspot.com/
[12:48] Yabusaka Loon especially for mesh clothing makers (if any)
[12:48] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) the fact that a mesh viewer has no upload or decode of mesh
[12:48] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) when not built by LL
[12:48] Maniac Choche this have versions for max , maya and blender with weighting and etc
[12:48] davep (runitai.linden) it should have decode, just not upload
[12:48] davep (runitai.linden) and I *think* we just got a patch that enalbes upload, but with poor convex decomposition
[12:48] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) To use it, I want to know the license..
[12:49] davep (runitai.linden) the only non-opensource part of mesh is centered around convex hull generation and conversion from convex hulls to renderable meshes
[12:49] Yabusaka Loon Thanks Maniac but I think Linden should provide them if they are expecting clothing designer or AV parts creator to use more mesh
[12:49] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) well this weekend i started work on open-105
[12:49] davep (runitai.linden) so the physics shape display won't work, and most of the physics tab won't work, but the rest should work
[12:49] Maniac Choche Yabusaka it will be hard because of the software versions
[12:50] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-105
[12:50] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) So llm files of viewer is LGPL, isn't it?
[12:50] Maniac Choche but u r right :)
[12:51] Charlar Linden OK, folks - I hve to run to another meeting. Davep and Prep may hang out for a bit longer; Thanks everyone for attending!
[12:51] Rusalka Writer Aloha!
[12:51] Maniac Choche cya :)
Retrieved from "https://wiki.secondlife.com/w/index.php?title=Mesh/Archive/2011-07-18&oldid=1149080"