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  1. Will there be any way to offset and resize the collision volumes with a rigged mesh? Tiberious Neruda
  2. Is there any news to report on adding additional bones? Geenz Spad

Meeting Notes

Transcript for Monday August 13, 2012

[12:03] Nyx Linden greetings all!
[12:03] Gramma Fiddlesticks .
[12:03] Rusalka Writer Only tiny amounts of broken content.
[12:03] Rusalka Writer Aloha!
[12:03] Motor Loon ey Nyx
[12:03] Tiberious Neruda I sense a newbie Linden?
[12:03] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) Hello Nyx.
[12:03] Al Blindside Hey hey Nyx
[12:03] Hoz Linden Hi, all
[12:03] Rusalka Writer We'll be gentle.
[12:03] Kazumi (wickedwanda.blackheart) Hi Hoz
[12:03] Rusalka Writer No we won't.
[12:04] Nyx Linden agenda is here, we're light on topics, so feel free to add more:
[12:04] Tiberious Neruda're in with the sharks now... :>3
[12:04] Hoz Linden I'd be disappointed if I got special consideration.
[12:04] Tiberious Neruda err >:3
[12:04] Al Blindside Lovely to see Lindens here as ever - you guys get a bad press for not *caring* - but hells - here you be
[12:04] Rusalka Writer It's been months since there was actual violence.
[12:04] Al Blindside lordy
[12:04] Rusalka Writer Hoz must be the pony guy.
[12:05] Nyx Linden shall we get started?
[12:05] Motor Loon yeah lets rock
[12:06] Tiberious Neruda so, Hoz... what exactly do you do?
[12:06] Al Blindside woot
[12:06] Nyx Linden first topic: "Will there be any way to offset and resize the collision volumes with a rigged mesh? Tiberious Neruda"
[12:06] inconnu (ynysmore) is this a private meeting?
[12:06] Nal (nalates.urriah) sure
[12:06] Tiberious Neruda okay... bit of background to this question
[12:06] Nyx Linden hello inconnu - this is a public usergroup, I'll send you a link to the agenda, feel free to stick around
[12:06] Tiberious Neruda whenever you use a mesh with offset joints, the collision skeleton remains unchanged
[12:07] Tiberious Neruda and since you need to use the 'default shape' for accurate offsetting, you end up with collision bones either too small or too large, depending on the avatar size
[12:07] Tiberious Neruda this in turn affects how the camea focuses on an avatar
[12:09] Tiberious Neruda and in extreme cases, can even cause more strangeness like focusing on something behind a mesh, seeming to aim'through' it
[12:09] Rusalka Writer Focusing on mesh has been a problem anyway.
[12:09] Rusalka Writer The camera seems to reflect off it to somewhere else.
[12:09] Tiberious Neruda Rusalka, that has to do with those collision skeleton volumes
[12:09] Rusalka Writer Ah.
[12:10] Rusalka Writer Good question, then. It gets frustrating.
[12:10] Tiberious Neruda apparently, the client seems to assume some basic things about where the collision volumes are, which is fine if you're not using a rigged mesh with offsets, but throws things out of whack when you are
[12:11] Nyx Linden definitely a solid use case for why allowing the modification of physics skeleton to match your uploaded joints would be useful, is there a JIRA around this?
[12:12] Tiberious Neruda not one that I've created
[12:12] Rusalka Writer Here I was thinking of it as my "why is my camera in a tree again?" problem.
[12:13] Al Blindside Given that Blender is an open source code - would it be too crazy to see a drop down mesh menu and a corresponding off world version of Blender which has been stripped of the *impossible*?
[12:14] Rusalka Writer Yep. Too crazy.
[12:14] Rusalka Writer ; )
[12:14] Al Blindside lol
[12:15] Nyx Linden It would definitely be good to see a feature request for this in JIRA, with documentation on why its important. We don't have cycles for it immediately, but I can see where this could be causing some issues
[12:15] Rusalka Writer Tiberious has functional problems. I just have annoyance.
[12:16] Tiberious Neruda I'll work with someone if they want to make a jira on it, but I'm not putting it up myself
[12:17] Motor Loon such a stubborn little fellow that Tib...
[12:17] Al Blindside Annoyance is one thing - but practicalities are another methinks?
[12:17] Nyx Linden any other topics for this week? the floor is open :)
[12:17] Tiberious Neruda you can't blame me, though, can you?
[12:18] Rusalka Writer I'll do some experimentation with mesh upload on this new Mac.
[12:18] Rusalka Writer When RL permits.
[12:18] Rusalka Writer *crickets*
[12:18] Rusalka Writer Anybody want to ask for tail bones this week?
[12:18] Tiberious Neruda LOL!
[12:19] Rusalka Writer How are those coming along?
[12:19] Al Blindside RL is just a cumbersome relic for signing in... lol
[12:19] Neil Ceawlin sigh
[12:19] Motor Loon I think they're around the same stage as the nose bones
[12:19] Rusalka Writer More comfortable couches in RL.
[12:19] Nyx Linden /me files a jira for obtaining a more comfortable couch
[12:19] Rusalka Writer Lol!
[12:20] Rusalka Writer Well-played. I may not get a pony, but...
[12:20] Rusalka Writer Or pony butt.
[12:20] Gramma Fiddlesticks /me makes note to self: Self, build Nyx & Rusalka a more comfortable couch
[12:20] Motor Loon I'm afraid I seem to have very little to whine about this week
[12:20] Rusalka Writer How about the beta area? It's down to two sims now?
[12:21] Nyx Linden whoo! guess we've fixed all the important bits! *schedules vacation*
[12:21] Motor Loon yep! °͜°
[12:21] Rusalka Writer Mesh is finished!
[12:21] Tiberious Neruda oh, I douby mesh is FINISHED...
[12:21] Tiberious Neruda ...but there's nothing outrageously broken either
[12:21] Motor Loon well, I'd ask again about the custom pivots... but... yeah... been there done that
[12:21] Rusalka Writer How has it come to this...
[12:21] Tiberious Neruda yeah...
[12:22] Al Blindside Given that beautiful in world tools like Mesh Studio exist - would it not be worth a meeting that basic mesh tools from primsw be incorporated into a future viewer?
[12:22] Rusalka Writer Any changes coming to impact based on script addition?
[12:22] Motor Loon changes?!
[12:23] Rusalka Writer Lessening impact numbers, I was thinking.
[12:23] Tiberious Neruda they did already, it hink
[12:23] Rusalka Writer Oh, good, Drongle.
[12:23] Motor Loon we just got that with pathfinding
[12:23] Tiberious Neruda yeah
[12:23] Nyx Linden I believe the pathfinding project had some land impact changes when it rolled out
[12:23] Rusalka Writer Drongle, we're out of topics. We can start with your hair.
[12:23] Nal (nalates.urriah) All my play right now is with Pathfinding and Navmesh... figuring it out and deciding what is or isn't working. ...and waiting on the Mesh Deformer...
[12:23] Gramma Fiddlesticks PF changes just rolled out affected scipts with mesh.
[12:23] Drongle McMahon :-)
[12:23] Rusalka Writer Oh, good, you finished rezzing. Never mind.
[12:24] Tiberious Neruda see, I'm curious why people aren't taking advantage of the 'RedPoly Method'
[12:24] Al Blindside ??
[12:24] Rusalka Writer Ah, topics.
[12:24] Motor Loon because its not supported?
[12:24] Geenz Spad likely the amount of work involved to use it
[12:24] Rusalka Writer How is the deformer?
[12:24] Nal (nalates.urriah) It doesn't work with breasts...
[12:24] Geenz Spad and that
[12:24] Tiberious Neruda yeah, it might be a pain in the butt to paint another set of weights, but it's already here
[12:24] Geenz Spad (also, saddle bags too)
[12:24] Tiberious Neruda it ain't perfect
[12:25] Nal (nalates.urriah) I DO NOT have saddle bags... :p
[12:25] Gramma Fiddlesticks /me has both of those. *grin
[12:25] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) RedPoly's method works in the viewer however it is complex to make the object. So, people are waiting on a wysiwig way to do it basically.
[12:25] Tiberious Neruda but it seems to be working better than what we've seen so far of the deformer
[12:26] Nal (nalates.urriah) I am hoping the next version of the deformer is better.
[12:26] beanster Potato maybe in 2015
[12:26] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Is Qarl working on a next version?
[12:26] Al Blindside I don't undertand why mesh tools *have* to be off world? Power yes but surely some basics in world like the prim menu?
[12:26] Motor Loon last I heard Karl was waiting for some serverside stuff
[12:27] Nal (nalates.urriah) Supposedly... with no Metareality podcasts for the last 2 weeks it is hard to know.
[12:27] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Yes, I was wondering if he was still in limbo.
[12:27] Nyx Linden mesh objects are set up to be relatively static - aside from retexturing, resizing, etc there are not mechanisms to re-write the assets
[12:27] Motor Loon yeah Nal... I've gone into withdrawals
[12:28] Tiberious Neruda maybe the uploader could support the groups needed for those non-collision-volume sliders?
[12:28] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) You can use Meshstudio if you want an inworld solution for mesh building.
[12:28] Nal (nalates.urriah) I think Nyx is saying that in-word mesh editing would be a really BIG add to SL, lots of code and stuff... so not going to happen anytime soon
[12:28] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) There may be some other products as well at this point.
[12:28] Motor Loon or at all
[12:28] Al Blindside Nyx - if a clever scripter can join mesh in world - whu can't ll do same?
[12:28] Rusalka Writer It can be priority #2,857.
[12:29] Motor Loon what are you talking about Al ?
[12:29] Nyx Linden define "join" :)
[12:29] Al Blindside A mesh grouping
[12:29] Nyx Linden linking should work fine with meshes
[12:29] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Why should they put cycles into doing that when a clever scripter has already done it?
[12:30] Rusalka Writer Settling in for the remainder of the hour...
[12:30] Motor Loon err
[12:31] Al Blindside Because the world is made/ or was made bt residents in world and bot some fancy ass 'designer' with a 1000$US program
[12:31] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) O.o
[12:31] Tiberious Neruda I do notice that sometimes there's a bug with viewing people with a rigged mesh....
[12:31] Tiberious Neruda it acts as if the mesh loads first, and then their shape
[12:31] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) Except that you don't need a 1,000 US program to make mesh assets.
[12:32] Rusalka Writer Free program and will of lion!
[12:32] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) lol
[12:32] Tiberious Neruda this results in stretched meshes until you do a deruth
[12:32] Al Blindside Yes - Blender could be modified is my point
[12:32] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) And inworld programs like Meshstudio. So, that excuse is pretty much dead.
[12:32] Motor Loon Blender works fine... why do you need it modified?
[12:33] Rusalka Writer It sounds like asking why we don't just add French to English to pick up a bunch of new and useful words.
[12:33] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) actually want LL to try to integrate Blender into the viewer? Seriously?
[12:33] Motor Loon god no thanks
[12:33] Al Blindside Linden Lans used to say "Made By Residents" ---- that meant inworld
[12:33] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) lol
[12:33] Nyx Linden any other topics for this week or should we wrap up early?
[12:33] Drongle McMahon That gives me a sense of deja vu!
[12:34] Tiberious Neruda Nyx: maybe finding some way to address the bug I mentioned?
[12:34] Al Blindside Yes - Blender is open code
[12:34] Asha (ashasekayi.ra)
[12:34] Rusalka Writer Dang. I was relaxing. Having a beverage.
[12:34] Motor Loon You're welcome to make a new viewer with Blender built in Al... have fun with that °͜°
[12:34] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) lol
[12:35] Tiberious Neruda the one where meshes with offset joints loads before the shape wearing it
[12:35] Nal (nalates.urriah) Or Al could write a proposal and add it to the JIRA...
[12:35] Al Blindside I have to push buttons where I see them
[12:35] Nyx Linden I don't suppose there is a JIRA for that bug?
[12:35] Rusalka Writer Jira away, Al.
[12:35] Tiberious Neruda not sure. It's probably something that others have seen too
[12:35] Al Blindside This is like a Jira -- they're here so I say my mind
[12:36] Nyx Linden screenshots and log files would be greatly appreciated, if it can be reproduced
[12:36] Geenz Spad I do have one thing to bring up! (if it's not too late, and given that there isn't much on the agenda today)
[12:36] Rusalka Writer What happens in meeting stays in meeting.
[12:36] Nyx Linden floor's open Geenz
[12:36] Motor Loon err.. theres nothing on the agenda today Geenz
[12:36] Al Blindside As long as it's not like Fight Club lol
[12:37] Rusalka Writer Heh heh heh.
[12:37] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) They've repeatedly stated that you need to make feature requests in JIRA form. Mentioning it here isn't going to get it noticed.
[12:37] Rusalka Writer Absolutely.
[12:37] Geenz Spad I forwarded this one on to Nyx after the CCIUG meeting we had that discussed it:
[12:37] JIRA-helper [#VWR-29349] Additional bones for rigging - Second Life Bug Tracker
[12:37] Geenz Spad has there been any progress on this?
[12:38] Rusalka Writer There we are.
[12:38] Al Blindside So no point to being here? Really?
[12:38] Motor Loon ah nosebones atain
[12:38] Motor Loon again
[12:38] Nyx Linden Nothing new to report just yet, though I do appreciate the write-up, its good to have a central list of the additional bones being asked for.
[12:38] Rusalka Writer We meet here to discuss problems, to see if anyone has experienced the same thing, if anyone has a workaround, and determine what needs to become a Jira.
[12:39] Mikki Miles T-bone
[12:39] Rusalka Writer The Jira system is the formal statement of a problem to LL and request for amendment.
[12:39] Geenz Spad alrighty then, and I imagine you wouldn't complain if people posted their feedback there either would you Nyx? :P
[12:39] Motor Loon Gonna be so much fun in Second Life‚Ñ¢ with we can all have 3 legs and 6 arms along with our 25 bone tails
[12:39] Tiberious Neruda my only concern is that these need to be standardized
[12:39] Rusalka Writer Centipedes...
[12:40] Asha (ashasekayi.ra) /me snorts. "25 bone tails".
[12:40] Kazumi (wickedwanda.blackheart) no wing bones on that jira..poor old angels and demons
[12:40] Nyx Linden I'll add myself as a watcher to that issue, gathering comments would be appreciated as long as they add detail and stay on track
[12:40] Al Blindside Jira is just a formalised opinion or suggestion - no need to ignore unformalised opinions I think? Anyways - i gotta scoot
[12:40] Nal (nalates.urriah) 25 bone tails... now what can Xcite! think up to do with that?
[12:40] Geenz Spad well, a few suggestions to everyone here regarding this one:
[12:40] Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) Stay on track and JIRA? Good grief, you're asking for a lot. :P
[12:40] Rusalka Writer Right. No centipedes.
[12:40] Geenz Spad I imagine a bone structure would be helpful
[12:41] Tiberious Neruda nothing. They're not attachments, so they can't do anything with 'em >:3
[12:41] Tiberious Neruda but that brings up an interesting question...
[12:41] Tiberious Neruda do you really think we'd need another 60-70 attachment points to go along with those bones?
[12:41] Geenz Spad since as it stands, saying "I want a riggable tail!" doesn't say much about how those bones should be structured (I.e., will 3 bones suffice? 4? 5? etc.)
[12:42] Tiberious Neruda Geenz, I'd say no more than about 8 for the tail
[12:42] Nyx Linden indeed, an explicit list & diagram would be most helpful
[12:42] Rusalka Writer Explicit. Right, those too.
[12:43] Motor Loon so what if you have two tails?
[12:43] Nyx Linden with that I think we're pretty much wrapped up this week. See everyone next week!
[12:43] Motor Loon are we going to discriminate against oddlings with two tails then?
[12:43] Nal (nalates.urriah) Thx Lindens
[12:43] Rusalka Writer Sigh.
[12:43] Gramma Fiddlesticks Thanks Lindens.
[12:43] Bazz Fazz (vir.linden) Bye all!
[12:43] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) See you next week, Nyx!
[12:43] Rusalka Writer Aloha, all. Try to have more problems this week.
[12:43] Gramma Fiddlesticks bye bye
[12:44] Tiberious Neruda of course...
[12:44] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) See you Vir!
[12:44] Drongle McMahon Bye