Open Development User Group/Archive/2011-03-16

13:07	Tonya Souther	Hi, Oz.
	Yuzuru	Hello Oz!
	Office Orb	mail_to set to oz@lindenlab.com
		Start transcription to oz@lindenlab.com
		Transcript will be sent to: oz@lindenlab.com
	Oz Linden	Sorry I'm late... got thinking about code and lost track of time
	Tonya Souther	We've never done thgat.
13:08	Oz Linden	So... item 1 - XMPP Chat
13:09		I mentioned this earlier today... there's a Project Viewer now that does XMPP Group Chat
		and servers up on the aditi grid
	Seth	(I'm here to answer questions about that, if you have any)
	Oz Linden	meet Seth !
	Jonathan	Hi Seth
	Seth	Hi!
13:10	FERRET	hmm a linden with an axe
	Jonathan	Is there a firm decision yet to allow external clients to connect (i.e. pidgin) or is that still subject to change?
	Oz Linden	lots of discussisons going on about how to evolve chat
		at the moment it's not only allowed, it's documented
	Cummere Mayo	grins at seth...
	Jonathan	Yes, I noticed :)
	Cummere Mayo	yes seth if you havent heard im a brat :)
	Jonathan	I think allowing external clients is a great feature
13:11	Oz Linden	I suspect that it will stay allowed, but that's Oz's Guess, not an official LL anything
	Tonya Souther	Kadah's coming to ask about XMPP as soon as he logs in.
	Seth	There is some unofficial chat between devs and 3rd party viewer folks on chat.aditi.lindenlab.com in the channel "second-life-beta"
13:12	Jonathan	As part of the xmpp project will it be possible to mute a group?
	Oz Linden	ah... that answers one of _my_ questions!
	Seth	jonathan -- I'm not sure yet. There's been a lot of talk about marking groups as auto-join (chat-wise) or not.
	Jonathan	heck, I just worked on that svc-nnn issue, maybe it was just for "educational purposes"
	Seth	I suspect we'll end up with something like that, but it's not decided yet.
13:13	Cummere Mayo	plEASE add chat mute abilities
	Jonathan	CUmmere, if they don't I already have done that work, well, about 95%% of it
	Seth	btw, that chat group's name may change to second+life+beta, if we switch to url encoding the names
	Cummere Mayo	o.O
13:14	Seth	it's not hard to do, except that it takes UI work
		which can be quite hard
	Jonathan	Seth, I "cheated" and used the mute/block list -- the server supports a Group type field
	Seth	ah
13:15	Jonathan	svc-2820
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2820 SVC-2820 Allow group IMs to be muted
	Seth	we haven't gone through and turned off the extensions we don't want yet, so don't be too surprised if anything fancy that now works doesn't, in the future
		i think vcards etc are still turned on
		we'll disable them at some point
13:16	FERRET	that sounds about usual :P
13:17		see 1 of our problems is u tap minefield buttons on your end and we wait for explosions our end
	Seth	heh
	Oz Linden	I had not gotten around to it yet, but remind me to pester you about getting the libstrophe library up on bitbucket, Seth
	Seth	heh okay
13:18		the servers on aditi are very much alpha at this point
		we've opened them up to get feedback sooner
	Cummere Mayo	thats appreciated :)
	Seth	hopefully we won't trick anybody into depending on something we didn't intend to have turned on
13:19	Kadah	Is the XMPP server address being returned by the login server now?
	Cummere Mayo	is this also incoperated into the latest mesh viewer or only on its own test viewer?
	Seth	kadah -- not yet, but that's the plan. it's pretty guessable, though
	Oz Linden	those are separate viewers, Cummere
	Seth	yeah we haven't merged mesh code into the xmpp viewer.
13:20	Oz Linden	they'll come together in viewer-development (probably not at the same time)
	Kadah	Is XMPP being tied with Mesh's relase?
	Cummere Mayo	meh oh well... guess ill just have to add another viewer... since v-d isnt working for me I guess ill hae room for it
		*have
	Seth	kadah -- we don't know yet. probably not
	Oz Linden	viewers are good - there should be lots of them!
13:21	Tonya Souther	yay Oz!
	Kadah	I'd rather see XMPP separate, get it out asap :>
	FERRET	cant we at least have the 64m prims if not the mesh?
	Cummere Mayo	speaking of viewers oz... did you see my note about 2.6.1 in the mailing list... ive talked to some other testers with the same issue
	Oz Linden	I don't think it's possible to say which will come first at this point
		I have not seen it yet, Cummere
13:22		will look before I wrap up my day
	Cummere Mayo	bascially none of the 2.6.1 builds will initialize for us non devs :-/
	Oz Linden	notes that the orb is unusually fiesty today....
	Jonathan	That sounded like a .dll issue
13:23	Cummere Mayo	we think its a mising file or one set with wierd read options but yeah
	Oz Linden	I'll upgrade after this meeting is done, but I'm on a mac
	Cummere Mayo	it also seems to be windows specific
		xp, vista, and 7 ><
	Oz Linden	ah... well....
13:24	Kadah	Hows viewer autobuild coming along?
	Oz Linden	A good topic....
	Kadah	And MSVC100
	Oz Linden	I _think_ that we are very very close
	Lord Noob	good
	Kadah	Sooo like a few months? :P
13:25	Oz Linden	Merov cleaned up a bunch of things, and others fixed some more,
	Jonathan	I can compile on windows, but with a 50%% longer compile time Kadah
	Oz Linden	I'm hoping by early next week, but we've heard that song before
	Kadah	Lovely, like 3 hours wasn't long enough :S
13:26	Oz Linden	the current "best" repo for that is bitbucket.org/merov_linden/viewer-autobuild2010
	Kadah	I will have to check that out later
	Oz Linden	we'll be merging autobuild and VS 2010 support together
13:27		that is, both will come to viewer-development as one
	Cummere Mayo	sweet
	Kadah	Yeah, rather have to learn a whole new system once instead of twice
13:28	Oz Linden	Note: once we've done that, anything for earlier versions of VS becomes uninteresting....
	Lord Noob	>.>
	Tonya Souther	I doubt anyone will complain loudly about that as long as they can use the express version too.
	Oz Linden	will probably just go through and close everything I can find related to other windoze compilers
	Kadah	2005's intelisense fail really annoys me.
13:29		I'm hoping MS has fixed it in 2010
	FERRET	oh i dunno...trying to get 1.23 to compile on vs2010 is becoming quite a challenge
	Jonathan	I disabled intellisense--there is a .dll file you can rename
	Oz Linden	yes, express will sitll require separate configuration, which is a pain, but should work on some level
13:30	Tonya Souther	well, as a Mac geek, I ain't paying for the full VS just to see if I can build on Windows.
	Kadah	MSVC's text editor is not every good, the only thing is has going for it is intellisense, otherwise NP++ is 100x better
13:31	Oz Linden	Well, hopefully I can get back to work on the build farm soon, and you won't need to, Tonya
	Tonya Souther	yay!
	Kadah	Ditto :V
13:32	Oz Linden	So... one thing I could use some help on with all that is... several of you seem to be using NickyP's repo
13:33		which is fine, but the changesets there introduce large new blocks, so it's hard to figure out what the real point was
	Kadah	I haven't even looked at her repo yet
	Jonathan	Some switches for msbuild were added plus a -D item
13:34	Ima Mechanique	Oz I'm still using your /viewer-autobuild2010 repo
	Oz Linden	so... if people can figure out what the key bits are that need tweaking against the merov repo I pointed to, it would really help
		merov forked mine and fixed some things that were wrong with it, so I'm treating his as the best now
13:35	Ima Mechanique	okay, I've alraedy cloned it
	Jonathan	Oz, I am mostly not here, so ask one of those windows builders to make sure it is documented what needs to be edited in the Cmake directory
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	is there some way to look up the autobuild repo du jour? They seem to be changing on a regulare basis, lately.
	Kadah	Oz, your dog just kicked me o.O
	Oz Linden	I will probably post a set of builds from it on the test build page
13:36	Cummere Mayo	sorry for interrupting but what is serwvdrv.dll supposed to do and where in the secondlife directory is it supposed to be?
	Oz Linden	no, realistically I'm afraid not, Boroondas
		any of you Windoze people know?
	Jonathan	google it?
	Oz Linden	(cummere's question, I mean)
	Kadah	Never heard of it before
	Lord Noob	why do you call it windoze?
13:37	FERRET	cuz it puts u to sleep waiting for stuff
	Ima Mechanique	Cummere, is that supposed to have the 'w' in there
	Oz Linden	too many years as a unix snob, I guess
		sorry
	JayR Cela	I thought it was WinBlows / lol :_)
	Cummere Mayo	possibly neil i dunno
	Ima Mechanique	cuz every time Oz here's about it it puts him to sleep
13:38	Cummere Mayo	but its telling me that it cannot find C:\Program Files\SecondLifeDevelopment\serwvdrv.dll
	FERRET	i dont have it neither...open it in a text editor and see wots in it
	Kadah	There is no serwvdrv.dll in the 2.5.2 build oz last posted to os-dev
13:39	FERRET	or eun it thru a disassembler
	Ima Mechanique	cummere, according to google it's a serial wave modem file
	Cummere Mayo	i would if i could find the file
	FERRET	lol sailup?
		dailup even
13:40	Ima Mechanique	no serwvdrv.dll in my 2.6.1 install
13:41	Kadah	Sounds suspect to me.
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	as people "surf" the web, I'll go for sailup
	Oz Linden	I don't believe we have much need for dtmf tones in the viewer....
	Kadah	It does use ports after all.
13:42	FERRET	but dtmf tones are such fun on the telco lines if u play them at random
	Thickbrick Nolastname	you never know, maybe someone will make a BlueBoxZone
13:43	Ima Mechanique	cummere, if you do have that file, it should probably be in your windows/system32 directory
	Cummere Mayo	i dont have that on my ssytem far as i can tell
	Kadah	Run your viewer exe through depends and see where there that dependacy is coming from
13:45	Oz Linden	So.... I don't know anything about the issues you added on the agenda, Cummere, sorry
	Kadah	Whats after 2.5.2?
	Oz Linden	2.6.0
13:46		plan is to post the beta for it tomorrow
		it's on the Snowstorm wiki page
	Kadah	Oh good. Will there be a notice on os-dev as well when thats up?
	Cummere Mayo	well with the last few 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 builds those are things i noticed for me oz..
	Kadah	will forget
	Lord Noob	think 2.6 will be ready for release in a week or to?
13:47	Oz Linden	I'll put a note on osdev, and there will be a blog post
		the plan is one week
	Thickbrick Nolastname	2.6 just had a huge code drop, so probably a week is being *very* optimistic.
	Kadah	Any think big coming in 2.6?
		Is estate windlight ever coming?
	Oz Linden	we're going to try to do a faster release cycle for a while ... something new every week
13:48		Estate windlight is getting attention...
	Kadah	Its been months though :<
		Years if you want to count when it was originally planned
	Oz Linden	yes, well....
13:49	Thickbrick Nolastname	Estate windlight is done by snowstorm, or some other team?
	Oz Linden	we're doing it, but not so much because anyone told us to so much as we want to get it done
13:50	Kadah	Do you know if it will bring the abality to make custom day cycle presets in the viewer?
	Oz Linden	the heavy lifting is finished, though
	Kadah	That bit was never finished
	Oz Linden	yes, it will
	Kadah	Cool
13:51	Oz Linden	I'm planning to have some fun with it here :-)
	Lord Noob	:)
	Thickbrick Nolastname	suggests whoever implements persistant windlight should talk to the community. There has been several 3rd party implementations of that, and probably there's stuff to be learned from those (both in what to do, and what not to do.)
	Kadah	Are there any plans yet on supporting WL preset as assets?
	Oz Linden	not as part of what we're doing now, no
	Kadah	Darn.
13:52		NC work, but its hacky
13:53	Oz Linden	my understanding is that would require some backend work
		just getting the windlight functionality to work doesn't (everything we need for that is done)
	Kadah	What I was doing was using notecards to store LLSD with an file extension at the end of their names
13:54		And just parsing the name and changing the default actions
	Thickbrick Nolastname	Kadah, same as Katharine's wl notecards?
	Oz Linden	one can hope that we will someday be able to improve on that
13:55	Tonya Souther	that'd be nice, Oz...
	Kadah	Just a new asset type thats type of nc could work, but I'll leave it to you guys :P
13:56	Oz Linden	The impression I have gotten is that the "just" in that sentence is where the problem comes in ....
	Tonya Souther	It's a SMOP. :3
13:57	Kadah	True, I'm sure there's a more clever way, like maybe a true LLSD storage asset class
	Tonya Souther	and for exrta goodness, how about letting scripts emit them, hmmmm? :3
	Oz Linden	Well, I figure if we can get the viewer supporting setting and displaying them, there will be motivation for building something to exchange them
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	If ever new asset types are to be introduced, we should consider Aleric's proposal of generic assets, so that new types can be define purely viewer-side without requiring further serverside changes.
13:58	Oz Linden	purely viewer side assets are an interop nightmare... don't hold your breath
	Kadah	Yeah, it would be wonderful if LSL could control the WL stuff in the future
13:59	Oz Linden	SL is all about a shared experience - allowing viewers to do things that others can't experience breaks that pretty badly
	FERRET	sounds emerald :P
	Kadah	If you do it in v-d, I'll pull it :3
14:00	Office Orb	Your timer has expired!
	Oz Linden	that's the idea...
		I've got to go prep for a meeting on merging autobuild2010, so ....
	Tonya Souther	yay.
	Lord Noob	good luck :)
	Kadah	Yay, more autobuild
	Oz Linden	even though I was a bit late starting, we're going to stop on time
	Kadah	Have fun Oz
	Jonathan	Thank you Seth & Oz
	Tonya Souther	I hope you're finding some time somewhere to sling code, Oz...
	Lord Noob	and thx for your time
14:01	Oz Linden	not nearly as much as I'd like,, Tonya
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	Yeah, of course it wouldn't make much sense for a single viewer to introduce a new asset type based on the generic asset type. There would have to be agreement between different viewers. But the server side would be abstracted out of the equation.
	Lord Noob	thank you seth for your imput also
	Jonathan	oz, where do we find the UG logs now?
		There are none on your wiki page for this month
	Office Orb	End transcription
	Kadah	gives Seth a cookie
	Lord Noob	lol kadah
	FERRET	cookie?
	Oz Linden	I'll check, Jonathan....