Open Development User Group/Archive/2011-03-16

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13:07  Tonya Souther  Hi, Oz.
  Yuzuru  Hello Oz!
  Office Orb  mail_to set to
    Start transcription to
    Transcript will be sent to:
  Oz Linden  Sorry I'm late... got thinking about code and lost track of time
  Tonya Souther  We've never done thgat.
13:08  Oz Linden  So... item 1 - XMPP Chat
13:09    I mentioned this earlier today... there's a Project Viewer now that does XMPP Group Chat
    and servers up on the aditi grid
  Seth  (I'm here to answer questions about that, if you have any)
  Oz Linden  meet Seth !
  Jonathan  Hi Seth
  Seth  Hi!
13:10  FERRET  hmm a linden with an axe
  Jonathan  Is there a firm decision yet to allow external clients to connect (i.e. pidgin) or is that still subject to change?
  Oz Linden  lots of discussisons going on about how to evolve chat
    at the moment it's not only allowed, it's documented
  Cummere Mayo  grins at seth...
  Jonathan  Yes, I noticed :)
  Cummere Mayo  yes seth if you havent heard im a brat :)
  Jonathan  I think allowing external clients is a great feature
13:11  Oz Linden  I suspect that it will stay allowed, but that's Oz's Guess, not an official LL anything
  Tonya Souther  Kadah's coming to ask about XMPP as soon as he logs in.
  Seth  There is some unofficial chat between devs and 3rd party viewer folks on in the channel "second-life-beta"
13:12  Jonathan  As part of the xmpp project will it be possible to mute a group?
  Oz Linden  ah... that answers one of _my_ questions!
  Seth  jonathan -- I'm not sure yet. There's been a lot of talk about marking groups as auto-join (chat-wise) or not.
  Jonathan  heck, I just worked on that svc-nnn issue, maybe it was just for "educational purposes"
  Seth  I suspect we'll end up with something like that, but it's not decided yet.
13:13  Cummere Mayo  plEASE add chat mute abilities
  Jonathan  CUmmere, if they don't I already have done that work, well, about 95%% of it
  Seth  btw, that chat group's name may change to second+life+beta, if we switch to url encoding the names
  Cummere Mayo  o.O
13:14  Seth  it's not hard to do, except that it takes UI work
    which can be quite hard
  Jonathan  Seth, I "cheated" and used the mute/block list -- the server supports a Group type field
  Seth  ah
13:15  Jonathan  svc-2820
  Office Orb

SVC-2820 Allow group IMs to be muted

  Seth  we haven't gone through and turned off the extensions we don't want yet, so don't be too surprised if anything fancy that now works doesn't, in the future
    i think vcards etc are still turned on
    we'll disable them at some point
13:16  FERRET  that sounds about usual :P
13:17    see 1 of our problems is u tap minefield buttons on your end and we wait for explosions our end
  Seth  heh
  Oz Linden  I had not gotten around to it yet, but remind me to pester you about getting the libstrophe library up on bitbucket, Seth
  Seth  heh okay
13:18    the servers on aditi are very much alpha at this point
    we've opened them up to get feedback sooner
  Cummere Mayo  thats appreciated :)
  Seth  hopefully we won't trick anybody into depending on something we didn't intend to have turned on
13:19  Kadah  Is the XMPP server address being returned by the login server now?
  Cummere Mayo  is this also incoperated into the latest mesh viewer or only on its own test viewer?
  Seth  kadah -- not yet, but that's the plan. it's pretty guessable, though
  Oz Linden  those are separate viewers, Cummere
  Seth  yeah we haven't merged mesh code into the xmpp viewer.
13:20  Oz Linden  they'll come together in viewer-development (probably not at the same time)
  Kadah  Is XMPP being tied with Mesh's relase?
  Cummere Mayo  meh oh well... guess ill just have to add another viewer... since v-d isnt working for me I guess ill hae room for it
  Seth  kadah -- we don't know yet. probably not
  Oz Linden  viewers are good - there should be lots of them!
13:21  Tonya Souther  yay Oz!
  Kadah  I'd rather see XMPP separate, get it out asap :>
  FERRET  cant we at least have the 64m prims if not the mesh?
  Cummere Mayo  speaking of viewers oz... did you see my note about 2.6.1 in the mailing list... ive talked to some other testers with the same issue
  Oz Linden  I don't think it's possible to say which will come first at this point
    I have not seen it yet, Cummere
13:22    will look before I wrap up my day
  Cummere Mayo  bascially none of the 2.6.1 builds will initialize for us non devs :-/
  Oz Linden  notes that the orb is unusually fiesty today....
  Jonathan  That sounded like a .dll issue
13:23  Cummere Mayo  we think its a mising file or one set with wierd read options but yeah
  Oz Linden  I'll upgrade after this meeting is done, but I'm on a mac
  Cummere Mayo  it also seems to be windows specific
    xp, vista, and 7 ><
  Oz Linden  ah... well....
13:24  Kadah  Hows viewer autobuild coming along?
  Oz Linden  A good topic....
  Kadah  And MSVC100
  Oz Linden  I _think_ that we are very very close
  Lord Noob  good
  Kadah  Sooo like a few months? :P
13:25  Oz Linden  Merov cleaned up a bunch of things, and others fixed some more,
  Jonathan  I can compile on windows, but with a 50%% longer compile time Kadah
  Oz Linden  I'm hoping by early next week, but we've heard that song before
  Kadah  Lovely, like 3 hours wasn't long enough :S
13:26  Oz Linden  the current "best" repo for that is
  Kadah  I will have to check that out later
  Oz Linden  we'll be merging autobuild and VS 2010 support together
13:27    that is, both will come to viewer-development as one
  Cummere Mayo  sweet
  Kadah  Yeah, rather have to learn a whole new system once instead of twice
13:28  Oz Linden  Note: once we've done that, anything for earlier versions of VS becomes uninteresting....
  Lord Noob  >.>
  Tonya Souther  I doubt anyone will complain loudly about that as long as they can use the express version too.
  Oz Linden  will probably just go through and close everything I can find related to other windoze compilers
  Kadah  2005's intelisense fail really annoys me.
13:29    I'm hoping MS has fixed it in 2010
  FERRET  oh i dunno...trying to get 1.23 to compile on vs2010 is becoming quite a challenge
  Jonathan  I disabled intellisense--there is a .dll file you can rename
  Oz Linden  yes, express will sitll require separate configuration, which is a pain, but should work on some level
13:30  Tonya Souther  well, as a Mac geek, I ain't paying for the full VS just to see if I can build on Windows.
  Kadah  MSVC's text editor is not every good, the only thing is has going for it is intellisense, otherwise NP++ is 100x better
13:31  Oz Linden  Well, hopefully I can get back to work on the build farm soon, and you won't need to, Tonya
  Tonya Souther  yay!
  Kadah  Ditto :V
13:32  Oz Linden  So... one thing I could use some help on with all that is... several of you seem to be using NickyP's repo
13:33    which is fine, but the changesets there introduce large new blocks, so it's hard to figure out what the real point was
  Kadah  I haven't even looked at her repo yet
  Jonathan  Some switches for msbuild were added plus a -D item
13:34  Ima Mechanique  Oz I'm still using your /viewer-autobuild2010 repo
  Oz Linden  so... if people can figure out what the key bits are that need tweaking against the merov repo I pointed to, it would really help
    merov forked mine and fixed some things that were wrong with it, so I'm treating his as the best now
13:35  Ima Mechanique  okay, I've alraedy cloned it
  Jonathan  Oz, I am mostly not here, so ask one of those windows builders to make sure it is documented what needs to be edited in the Cmake directory
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  is there some way to look up the autobuild repo du jour? They seem to be changing on a regulare basis, lately.
  Kadah  Oz, your dog just kicked me o.O
  Oz Linden  I will probably post a set of builds from it on the test build page
13:36  Cummere Mayo  sorry for interrupting but what is serwvdrv.dll supposed to do and where in the secondlife directory is it supposed to be?
  Oz Linden  no, realistically I'm afraid not, Boroondas
    any of you Windoze people know?
  Jonathan  google it?
  Oz Linden  (cummere's question, I mean)
  Kadah  Never heard of it before
  Lord Noob  why do you call it windoze?
13:37  FERRET  cuz it puts u to sleep waiting for stuff
  Ima Mechanique  Cummere, is that supposed to have the 'w' in there
  Oz Linden  too many years as a unix snob, I guess
  JayR Cela  I thought it was WinBlows / lol :_)
  Cummere Mayo  possibly neil i dunno
  Ima Mechanique  cuz every time Oz here's about it it puts him to sleep
13:38  Cummere Mayo  but its telling me that it cannot find C:\Program Files\SecondLifeDevelopment\serwvdrv.dll
  FERRET  i dont have it it in a text editor and see wots in it
  Kadah  There is no serwvdrv.dll in the 2.5.2 build oz last posted to os-dev
13:39  FERRET  or eun it thru a disassembler
  Ima Mechanique  cummere, according to google it's a serial wave modem file
  Cummere Mayo  i would if i could find the file
  FERRET  lol sailup?
    dailup even
13:40  Ima Mechanique  no serwvdrv.dll in my 2.6.1 install
13:41  Kadah  Sounds suspect to me.
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  as people "surf" the web, I'll go for sailup
  Oz Linden  I don't believe we have much need for dtmf tones in the viewer....
  Kadah  It does use ports after all.
13:42  FERRET  but dtmf tones are such fun on the telco lines if u play them at random
  Thickbrick Nolastname  you never know, maybe someone will make a BlueBoxZone
13:43  Ima Mechanique  cummere, if you do have that file, it should probably be in your windows/system32 directory
  Cummere Mayo  i dont have that on my ssytem far as i can tell
  Kadah  Run your viewer exe through depends and see where there that dependacy is coming from
13:45  Oz Linden  So.... I don't know anything about the issues you added on the agenda, Cummere, sorry
  Kadah  Whats after 2.5.2?
  Oz Linden  2.6.0
13:46    plan is to post the beta for it tomorrow
    it's on the Snowstorm wiki page
  Kadah  Oh good. Will there be a notice on os-dev as well when thats up?
  Cummere Mayo  well with the last few 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 builds those are things i noticed for me oz..
  Kadah  will forget
  Lord Noob  think 2.6 will be ready for release in a week or to?
13:47  Oz Linden  I'll put a note on osdev, and there will be a blog post
    the plan is one week
  Thickbrick Nolastname  2.6 just had a huge code drop, so probably a week is being *very* optimistic.
  Kadah  Any think big coming in 2.6?
    Is estate windlight ever coming?
  Oz Linden  we're going to try to do a faster release cycle for a while ... something new every week
13:48    Estate windlight is getting attention...
  Kadah  Its been months though :<
    Years if you want to count when it was originally planned
  Oz Linden  yes, well....
13:49  Thickbrick Nolastname  Estate windlight is done by snowstorm, or some other team?
  Oz Linden  we're doing it, but not so much because anyone told us to so much as we want to get it done
13:50  Kadah  Do you know if it will bring the abality to make custom day cycle presets in the viewer?
  Oz Linden  the heavy lifting is finished, though
  Kadah  That bit was never finished
  Oz Linden  yes, it will
  Kadah  Cool
13:51  Oz Linden  I'm planning to have some fun with it here :-)
  Lord Noob  :)
  Thickbrick Nolastname  suggests whoever implements persistant windlight should talk to the community. There has been several 3rd party implementations of that, and probably there's stuff to be learned from those (both in what to do, and what not to do.)
  Kadah  Are there any plans yet on supporting WL preset as assets?
  Oz Linden  not as part of what we're doing now, no
  Kadah  Darn.
13:52    NC work, but its hacky
13:53  Oz Linden  my understanding is that would require some backend work
    just getting the windlight functionality to work doesn't (everything we need for that is done)
  Kadah  What I was doing was using notecards to store LLSD with an file extension at the end of their names
13:54    And just parsing the name and changing the default actions
  Thickbrick Nolastname  Kadah, same as Katharine's wl notecards?
  Oz Linden  one can hope that we will someday be able to improve on that
13:55  Tonya Souther  that'd be nice, Oz...
  Kadah  Just a new asset type thats type of nc could work, but I'll leave it to you guys :P
13:56  Oz Linden  The impression I have gotten is that the "just" in that sentence is where the problem comes in ....
  Tonya Souther  It's a SMOP. :3
13:57  Kadah  True, I'm sure there's a more clever way, like maybe a true LLSD storage asset class
  Tonya Souther  and for exrta goodness, how about letting scripts emit them, hmmmm? :3
  Oz Linden  Well, I figure if we can get the viewer supporting setting and displaying them, there will be motivation for building something to exchange them
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  If ever new asset types are to be introduced, we should consider Aleric's proposal of generic assets, so that new types can be define purely viewer-side without requiring further serverside changes.
13:58  Oz Linden  purely viewer side assets are an interop nightmare... don't hold your breath
  Kadah  Yeah, it would be wonderful if LSL could control the WL stuff in the future
13:59  Oz Linden  SL is all about a shared experience - allowing viewers to do things that others can't experience breaks that pretty badly
  FERRET  sounds emerald :P
  Kadah  If you do it in v-d, I'll pull it :3
14:00  Office Orb  Your timer has expired!
  Oz Linden  that's the idea...
    I've got to go prep for a meeting on merging autobuild2010, so ....
  Tonya Souther  yay.
  Lord Noob  good luck :)
  Kadah  Yay, more autobuild
  Oz Linden  even though I was a bit late starting, we're going to stop on time
  Kadah  Have fun Oz
  Jonathan  Thank you Seth & Oz
  Tonya Souther  I hope you're finding some time somewhere to sling code, Oz...
  Lord Noob  and thx for your time
14:01  Oz Linden  not nearly as much as I'd like,, Tonya
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  Yeah, of course it wouldn't make much sense for a single viewer to introduce a new asset type based on the generic asset type. There would have to be agreement between different viewers. But the server side would be abstracted out of the equation.
  Lord Noob  thank you seth for your imput also
  Jonathan  oz, where do we find the UG logs now?
    There are none on your wiki page for this month
  Office Orb  End transcription
  Kadah  gives Seth a cookie
  Lord Noob  lol kadah
  FERRET  cookie?
  Oz Linden  I'll check, Jonathan....