Open Development User Group/Archive/2011-04-04

07:03	Wolfpup	hey Oz
	Tonya Souther	Morning, Oz./
	Office Orb	mail_to set to oz@lindenlab.com
		Start transcription to oz@lindenlab.com
		Transcript will be sent to: oz@lindenlab.com
	Oz Linden	Hi all
	Wolfpup	dang only two of us besides you oz?
	Oz Linden	Gee... quiet morning
07:04	Wolfpup	hey craconis
	draconis.neurocam	hello
07:05	Tonya Souther	Have to dig out much snow, Oz?
	Oz Linden	No, the Apr 1 snowstorm has pretty much melted now
	oobscure	heh
	Oz Linden	didn't even bother to clear it... got about 5 inches
07:06	Wolfpup	hey open
	oobscure	hey everybody
	Oz Linden	but it was 50 the next day
	oobscure	wow
	Wolfpup	Oz dose the new physics work on the old AV's
07:07	Oz Linden	what's an old av?
		you can add a physics wearable to any av
	Wolfpup	oh ok
07:08	Oz Linden	not very interesting on this one, though
		liked your video, opensource
	Wolfpup	true only the ladies will use it much
	oobscure	:D
	Tonya Souther	Which video?
	Wolfpup	seconds that question
	oobscure	not a nice video, but hopefully demonstr...ative
		do we already have an agenda ? i'd like to ask a question with regard to .. testing the last builds .. which SL features should we mostly test ? I guess some are more .. potentially problematic than others ..
07:09		tonya: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1xol1cCTwI
	hat sculpted ...	Video Preview: Avatar Physics (Chest, Butt, and Belly Bounce) in Second Life Viewer
	Oz Linden	oh no... I've got an av for TPV testing who's a big fat jolly guy.... it's great on him
		yes, we should talk about that, but I want to go over the OPEN issues first....
	Tonya Souther	ah. Yes, one of out support leads has been playing with that, too.
07:10	Oz Linden	https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&jqlQuery=project+%%3D+%%22Open+Development%%22+AND+assignee+is+EMPTY+AND+status+%%3D+%%22Awaiting+Review%%22++ORDER+BY+createdDate%%2C+priority+DESC
		open-55
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-55 OPEN-55 The 3p-tut repository does not reflect what is being downloaded from the prebuild lib pacakges
07:12	Oz Linden	hmmm... that's not good.... I'll have to look into that one.
		the 3p-* repos should match the packages...
		open-54
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-54 OPEN-54 Inconsistent CMake variable name for JsonCpp include dir(s)
	Tonya Souther	yah, wasn't that pretty much their purpose?
	Oz Linden	yes, it is
07:14	Tonya Souther	This seems like a straighforward fix.
	Oz Linden	I don't think that I understand the issue, and don't care much about standalone... if there's a change to go with it, I'll test it
07:15	Tonya Souther	I'm a little surprised Boroondas didnt' include a patch. Seems like a one-liner.
07:16	Oz Linden	open-53
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-53 OPEN-53 Bad permissions of files in 3p-openssl cause packaging failure on Linux in OpensourceRelese mode.
	Oz Linden	I don't understand why if this is a problem that it wouldn't show up in our builds?
07:17	Tonya Souther	Are you running build as root?
	Oz Linden	I hope not
	Tonya Souther	Or as the group owning the files?
	Wolfpup	Oz that would be because your build farms have the permisions that os dev do not
	Oz Linden	would not surprise me if the group matched... that could be it
07:18		open-52
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-52 OPEN-52 Superfluous source files
07:19	Wolfpup	you might see if there is a way to set the permisions to any
	Tonya Souther	There's a *LOT* of dead code in the viewer. I keep tripping over it trying to do things.
	Oz Linden	I love the idea of getting rid of dead code
	oobscure	I think it's a very good effort by jonathan
	Wolfpup	is dead code just for linux or is it dead in windows and mac as well
07:20	Oz Linden	it looks like some was needed
	oobscure	this weekend I managed to do build the viewer the new Autobuild way and hopefully I can help Jonathan with testing that
	Oz Linden	but of course it should match the cmake files anyway
07:21		I'll set up a TeamCity task for that too
		By the way - I'm told that I've actually got the Macs for the open source build farm!
	oobscure	o.o
	draconis.neurocam	woo
	Tonya Souther	yay!
07:22	Oz Linden	Still need to get a hosting location set up for them... but progress is progress
	oobscure	what will they do exactly ?
	Wolfpup	Oz what about the windows and linux ones?
07:23	Oz Linden	Windows and Linux will be done with Amazon EC2 hosts
07:24	Wolfpup	Opensource the build farms Oz is talking about will be the ones that devs like you and me will be able to use
	Oz Linden	It will allow you to do TeamCity builds that are as close as possible to exactly what we do internally, on all three platforms at once
07:25		So I won't have to do test builds for you to make sure that we've got cross platform tests
	Wolfpup	Oz do you have any people in mind as initial testers?
	Oz Linden	Too soon to worry about that
	oobscure	and I guess .. they will do that fast? farm = distributed work?
07:26	Oz Linden	I don't have a date yet for when I'll get a network set up for these... that looks like the gating problem now
	Wolfpup	oob they will build in the same length of time as the regular LL build farms
	Oz Linden	I don't really know what the performance will be like yet
	oobscure	ok, thanks.
	Oz Linden	Our windows builds take a bit over 2 hours
07:27		but we'll have to see what the EC2 performance turns out to be
	Wolfpup	the same as it dose for me when i do my local builds
	Oz Linden	open-38
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-38 OPEN-38 Fixes for viewer-autobuild for standalone
07:29	Wolfpup	that seems more of a linux and 64-bit issue
	Oz Linden	I'll Accept this one and look into it... looks like a minor nusiance
07:30		And that completes our triage !
		I'm also going to look at the changes in OPEN-50
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-50 OPEN-50 As an Open Source developer I would like a single set of configurations, which work for both Visual Studio and Express version of VC.
07:31	Oz Linden	figuring those out will be much more of a pain than they should be though because things were renamed and rearranged so the diffs are essentially useless
	Wolfpup	that macke it mor uniform for the Os devs as we all will have exactly the same settings and switches available
07:32	draconis.neurocam	would be wonderful if that was the case in the future, over the weekend i got 2010 express and all the other necessary things set up
07:33	Oz Linden	Yes, I believe the changes are largely good, it will just take some time to sort out
	Wolfpup	the names ar bacicaly like ths OpenSourceReleaseWithDebInfo -> ReleaseWithDebInfoOS
07:34	Oz Linden	it's a fine convention... but it caused the blocks to be re-ordered, so I can't easily see what the other diffs are
		I'll have to monkey with the files to really compare them
	Wolfpup	plust in the OS settings switches are added
07:35	Oz Linden	It turns out that there is a reason why we didn't use precompiled headers (which is one of the diffs)..... someone told me what it was on Friday, but I've forgotten at the moemnt
		Ah... Boroondas.... once you get yourself settled
07:36	Wolfpup	Oz they have just beend re grouped all the verious setting are togeather now ie Debug group ReleaseWithDebInfo group
	Oz Linden	open-54 needs a change to review
	Wolfpup	that was me and it was because VS2005 defaulted to it beong on
	Oz Linden	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-54
	Office Orb	OPEN-54 Inconsistent CMake variable name for JsonCpp include dir(s)
07:37	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	ah, yeah ... that's low priority, though. The error doesn't have any effect currently.
	Oz Linden	no... I mean that it is off in 2010 for a reason... it caused a problem with some package... will have to find out again what it was
		ok
07:38	oobscure	if the triage agenda is complete, I had a question
	Wolfpup	the only thing i have noticed is concerning the png lib
	Oz Linden	So.... I did add a new 'version' in the VWR project for 'open-development'
07:39	Wolfpup	but that is during the linking stage and the linker gets reconfigured
	oobscure	"Issues that are good candidates for open source developers to take up"
	Oz Linden	I will be moving issues there that I think are interesting but that LL is unlikely to get to any time soon, so they would be good candidates for open devs to pick up
	oobscure	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR/fixforversion/11547
07:40	Oz Linden	yup
		I have not put much there yet, but I welcome suggestions
		What was your question, Opensource ?
	oobscure	I got a bit more comfortable with JIRA these days. Filters, dashboards etc
		my question is about the testing we're doing these days against the last development builds .. vs2010 and viewer-development. In the last days I tried to use as many features as possible, but I'd suppose that testing some specific features may be more useful .. than testing other ones. If yes, which are they?
		note that I'm on Linux if this is relevant
07:41	Oz Linden	Ah, well, actually testing almost anything is useful
		Because we upgraded a bunch of the dependencies, and most of the toolchain, there's no telling what we might have broken
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	VWR-22733 suggests different possible behaviors. Has one been chosen, yet?
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-22733 VWR-22733 Avatar "Sit Here" available while falling/jumping
	Oz Linden	and of course, testing the new Avatar Physics is good too :-)
	oobscure	ok
07:42	Oz Linden	There were new changes to that this morning....
		Seraph spent his whole weekend on it, I think
	draconis.neurocam	ive been running the viewer since friday and ive seen no major issues, long times for phyiscs to load on other avatars, but i wonder if it might be related to the tight pants issue as well, and yes as soon as this meeting is over i will try out todays commits
07:43	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	(VWR-22733 is the only issue 'due' for the open-development version
		)
	Wolfpup	Boroondas i do not think Oz has had time to move things over yet
07:44	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	Wolfpup, I know, but VWR-22733 looks like it needs a design/UX decision, first)
07:45	Wolfpup	Oz will there be a way for the OS devs to be able to properly move issues in the bug tracker
	oobscure	(slightly related to Wolf's question .. labels in JIRA)
	Oz Linden	some things will need design decisions....
		if someone wants to work on them, then I'll get the required design review from LL
07:46		I'm not sure what you mean by 'properly move', WP
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	probably just 'move'?
	Oz Linden	mostly you won't be able to do moves
07:47		but if you want to work on something, let me know and when we've agreed on it then I'll move it
	Wolfpup	Oz STORM-1098 seems like a simple reworking oth the description in the settings xml there
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1098 STORM-1098 Debug setting ShowNetStats has wrong description
07:48	Wolfpup	it would take longer to make a repository and all than to acutaly do the fix
	Oz Linden	yup... that one looks easy
07:49	draconis.neurocam	ShowNetStats is a very useful feature, one of the first things I turn on
	Wolfpup	i have it on as well
		once i found it was sill avail in viewer development
07:50	Oz Linden	I'd like to be able to just take changes through the codereview system without a full repo, but right now, there's a bug in ReviewBoard that looses the hg meta-data when you do that
		when that's fixed, then we can change our process for simple changes like this one so that no repo is needed
		there is a new ReviewBoard release out... I'll look to see if that's fixed in it
07:51	oobscure	raises hand
		we lost Borondaas
	Oz Linden	shoot opensource
	oobscure	I had another question .. about Labels in JIRA - I had sent an email to opensource-dev about that on March 29. Borondaas replied me but there's room for other opinions or statements from LL
		I had another question .. about Labels in JIRA - I had sent an email to opensource-dev about that on March 29. Borondaas replied me but there's room for other opinions or statements from LL
		oops. sorry
		Basically, I have been adding labels to many JIRA issues, seeing people already was using them (and abusing them). Then, Borondaas explained me you (Oz) had told us not to do that.
	Oz Linden	Yes, I owe the community a repsonse on that one
	oobscure	I think they're very useful and I'd like if we (users or contributors) could use them and I'm available to help with this.ù
07:52	Oz Linden	As far as I can tell, labels don't cost us anything, but they can be confusing
		I need to have an internal discussion about the policy question...
07:53	Wolfpup	Oz i snaged 1098 will make a repos and all tomarrow as ill have the time to do it then
	Oz Linden	I'll do that this week and get something posted
		I'm trying to organize a major cleanup of VWR
	oobscure	thanks oz.
	draconis.neurocam	thes much thanks indeed, lots of work on that front
		yes*
	Oz Linden	I'd like to get rid of most of the issues there and get the rest organized
07:54		any other new business ?
07:55	draconis.neurocam	i would also like to thank you for getting the ball rolling for updating everything in order to keep current, it was something that was majorly lacking
	Oz Linden	well, now that all the tools and libs are out where you can all see and use them, you can help keep them more current
	draconis.neurocam	precisely
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	well, I'd like to discuss how JsonCpp includes get handled, but I better start that at the mailing list ... it's a bit complicated
	Oz Linden	ok
07:56	Wolfpup	well for one thing if the open jpeg gets updated merov's testing program can give that a work out
07:57	Oz Linden	yes, I'd like to see some thinking about how we could use that program to build some automated tests
07:58	Wolfpup	it would be verry use full for updating all the image handling that gose on (compression and decompression)
	oobscure	is there any documentation (even in the code...) about Avatar Physics? I'm actually new to do that.
	Oz Linden	Merov is starting on some more work in that area...
07:59	oobscure	I don't even know if other TPV viewers do the same or only make breasts bouncing
		also, is "Physics" a new asset type?
	Oz Linden	Well, I understand that KirstenLee has already ported it :-)
	draconis.neurocam	the way this works seems to be much better implimented and less hacky than the original third party implimentation
	oobscure	KirstenLee...faster than ever :)
	Oz Linden	It's a kind of wearable, yes
	Tonya Souther	We're seriously considering having it in Firestorm Preview 3.
08:00	Office Orb	Your timer has expired!
	Oz Linden	can't say I'm surprised, Tonya
	Tonya Souther	But, FWIW, it is our official position that LL done good by having it in the main viewer, LL got it right, and LL is to be congratulated and encouraged to do more things the users want. :3
08:01		It'll just take a backport from v-d to the 2.5.2 code.
	oobscure	next step is to have Kinect scan our bellies .. and make our avatar bounce accordingly
		:)
	Tonya Souther	What's the "we" stuff, kemosabe?
08:02	Oz Linden	Talk to Merov about the Kinect
	oobscure	yup :)
	Oz Linden	I've gotta go... see you all next time.
	Tonya Souther	I'm not at all sure I want to know, Oz.
		Have fun!
	draconis.neurocam	take care oz
	oobscure	bye bye Oz !
	Wolfpup	you TC oz and see you at the scrum