Open Development User Group/Archive/2011-04-13

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13:04  Yuzuru  Hello Oz
  Office Orb  mail_to set to
    Start transcription to
    Transcript will be sent to:
  Oz Linden  hi everyone
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  Hi Oz, AnnMarie, Yuzuru
13:05  Oz Linden  Let's get started ... OPEN issue triage first
  Office Orb

OPEN-64 SandboxViolation error installing 0.8.5 autobuild on Mac with 0.6.14 distribute

13:06  Oz Linden  hmmm....
    MacOS 10.5...
    accepted, but since there's a workaround...
13:07    OPEN-63
  Office Orb

OPEN-63 3p-qt: Fails to build on windows

13:08  Oz Linden  looks like it's got a fix... I'll get that reviewed and try it on our farm
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  Is the fix complete?
  Oz Linden  don't know...
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  Looks like it only adds the missing dir
13:09  Oz Linden  anyone want to volunteer to repro it?
13:10    storm-1098
  Office Orb

STORM-1098 Debug setting ShowNetStats has wrong description

  draconis.neurocam  that was just merged
  Oz Linden  yes, it was
    frankly, I don't think this is worth much more time
    anyone who understands it is not going to be confused,
13:11    and no one else will really understand it no matter what you label it
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  by "who understands it", do you mean "who already knows what the setting is supposed to do"?
    Then we can as well have no description.
13:12  Oz Linden  Who understands what network latency, packet loss, and bandwidth really are
  AnnMarie Otoole  Sure understand the symptoms.
13:13  Oz Linden  The symptoms of what?
  AnnMarie Otoole  latency, packet loss and bandwith :)
13:16  Oz Linden  I just think this is an example of Inside Baseball.... worrying about minutia that very very few people know about and even fewer actually understand, and so not spending time on things that affect users
13:17  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  Dunno ... misleading descriptions might lead to even fewer users understanding it.
  draconis.neurocam  its still something useful to point people to that may be having issues, or for people who want data, it should be more well known that it is, but yes the description is fine now
13:18    its not entirely misleading anymore, even though the name is more obvious anyway
  Oz Linden  Look at this list:
13:19    lots of those are things that lots of SL users would appreciate and use every day
13:20  draconis.neurocam  i am not saying they arnt
13:21  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  Some of them are already assigned :-)
  Oz Linden  If there's to be a healty open source program (and you should not take for granted that there will be _any_ open source program), then we need to spend more time on things people notice
13:23  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  Oh, you mean like STORM-1147 ? :-P
  Office Orb

STORM-1147 Other avatar's loose clothing\ flared cuffs look like they are tight\got no flare in v.2.4.0 and higher

  Oz Linden  yes, that's one is a real success story
    I'm not saying it's not happening at all
    it is, and the impact is good
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  I don't think so. Took much too long.
  Oz Linden  it could be even better, though
13:24    it did take too long
13:26    I don't mean to sound too grumpy....
    it's been a tough couple of weeks
  draconis.neurocam  its ok oz
13:27  Oz Linden  So... since we've got some free time on the agenda....
    what are the top 2 features you'd pick from some other TPV to put in the SL viewer? Boroondas first : 2 features
13:28  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  uh, dunno. I don't use TPVs much.
  Oz Linden  draconis?
  draconis.neurocam  extra and improved build features, more support for uploading content
  Oz Linden  that's pretty vague - what upload support?
13:29  draconis.neurocam  the ability to test an animation in world pre upload to see if it works, support for .anim files which allows for creation of deformed avatars, stretched limbs etc
13:30    more support for content creators
    that already exist elsewhere
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  I guess something like local texture support would fall into the same category?
  draconis.neurocam  yes
  Oz Linden  ok... AnnMarie ... 2 features
13:31  AnnMarie Otoole  I'll work on it. My human has to run to the RL Post office.
  Oz Linden  can't bring himself to tell her there are no fish her
    Yuzuru: 2 features
13:32  Yuzuru  Flexible function of sculpted prim.
  AnnMarie Otoole  Ooo deleted scripts go to trash!!
  Oz Linden  we've actually got an issue on that AnnMarie.... just saw it yesterday....
  AnnMarie Otoole  :) Cool
13:33  Oz Linden  I've heard conflicting folklore on flex/sculpt
    but that's not a TPV feature....
13:34    I want stuff I can go get :-)
  draconis.neurocam  flexis already are terrible, the limitations on them lead them into a life if little use, the patch has existed on jira for a while though
    the flexi sculpt one
  Yuzuru  I must learn more..
  Oz Linden  oobscrure : 2 tpv features
13:35  oobscure  1) one-click access to sky presets menu
    2) one-click access to draw distance
    1 is in imprudence, 2 in kirstens. and maybe others
  Oz Linden  I rather like the draw distance idea myself....
    by sky presets, you mean the Windlight sky presets?
13:36  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  looks through the Imprudence feature list. Hmm ... "Spell Checking" sounds good.
  draconis.neurocam is the flexible sculpt one just for reference
  Office Orb  VWR-9203 Flexible Sculpted Prims
  Oz Linden  Imprudence has spell checking?
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  Apparently.
  Oz Linden  hmmm.....
13:37    is a terrible speller
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে
  Ima Mechanique  sorry I'm late, no IRC warning again :-(
  Oz Linden  Ima... I'm quizzing
13:38    people - name 2 features from TPVs that you'd most like to see in the SL viewer
  draconis.neurocam  chuckles to himself "oz i could give you a never ending list"
13:39  oobscure  back. sorry. Yes Oz, I meant that. the dropdown menu in Advanced Sky editor.
  Oz Linden  don't want a never ending list
    that's not useful
  draconis.neurocam  i know
    it was a side remark
13:40  Oz Linden  we're working on Windlight....
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  Good :-)
  oobscure  yeah, saw a lot of new issues filed by torley
  Ima Mechanique  eeeeek
  Oz Linden  We're rethinking some of the ui... I'd be surprised if they included a one-touch change
  oobscure  tracked in
  Office Orb  STORM-1126 Windlight Region Settings
13:41  Oz Linden  we're much more interested in making region settings work
  oobscure  another TPV feature .. IIRC, Firestorm has more buttons available in bottom toolbar. I find them useful
  Oz Linden  they display now in our test viewer, and you can sort of edit them, but the ui needs work
    well, they allow the sidebar tabs to be bottom bar buttons
13:42    and make room by turning them into icons
  oobscure  I didn't use it much yet but I think I liked that, better than current viewer
13:44    ah, MediaFilter
    not using it myself yet but i think it should get into SL viewer
13:45  Oz Linden  I'm testing a version of that....
  Ima Mechanique  Oz do you want specific features from specific TPV's or would general be okay?
  Oz Linden  don't know what will happen when I propose it
  oobscure  :s
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  what can happen?
  Oz Linden  I want something specific enough to actually do
    not "fix the ui"
13:46  Ima Mechanique  ahh, well I was going to say a colour scheme I can work with.
  Oz Linden  I don't get to just check in anything I feel like....
    Ah... colors
  Ima Mechanique  but I can make that Firestorms skins if you preefer ;-)
  Oz Linden  That's definitly on my list... configurable colors
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  SNOW-614
  Oz Linden  no, full blown skins will never happen
13:47    they are too big a support problem
  Ima Mechanique  I also love what they've done to the bottom bar and side tray
  Oz Linden  color schemes, though, are possible
  oobscure  I don't know if this is in any TPV, but should be easy : click on time label -> the Events floater opens and shows current events
  Ima Mechanique  those are the biggest steps to making v2 useful/useable for me
13:48  Office Orb  VWR-17022 Clicking on the current time in the Viewer should bring up events happening right now.
  oobscure  85 votes
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  Um ... Oz .... your virtual dog might be drowning ... :-/
  Dɐuʇıɐ Goʇɥןʎ  how about return object to last position from inventory. should be simple and a lot of people would appretiate it
  Oz Linden  That sounds like a neat idea, but it's an issue that another team would handle if it was done
  oobscure  oh ok
13:49  Ima Mechanique  hehe how about a fantasy feature. I'd love dual times UTC/P[DS]T
  Oz Linden  For right now, I really want TPV features that exist, not good ideas in general
  Dɐuʇıɐ Goʇɥןʎ  search by creator in inv.
13:50  oobscure  oh right that one
  draconis.neurocam  return to last position is in most tvps
  Oz Linden  explain that one... I don't know what it is
  draconis.neurocam  basically, if someone gets something returned to them, like a giant build or something
    right click in inventory, and it puts it in the same place
13:51    saves headaches
  Kraptacular Kat  that makes sense
    who does that?
    what TPV?
  Oz Linden  I still don't get it
  draconis.neurocam  phoenix, and imprudence
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে
  Kraptacular Kat  I need to check that out
  Oz Linden  what do I click on and when ... and I'm going to invoke my favorite Clarity Rule: No Pronouns allowed
13:52  Kraptacular Kat  I just got here and I understood it :/
  draconis.neurocam  you right click the object you want replaced to the last in world position when you want to put it back
  Oz Linden  ah...
13:53    see, all this time I thought you were talking about the position of the object in the inventory
  draconis.neurocam  ah sorry
  Oz Linden  you're not following the No Pronoun rule ("it" is a pronoun)
13:54    You'd be amazed at how much the ambiguity of English is reduced by not using pronouns
  draconis.neurocam  the object = it
  Oz Linden  The list of Caveats on that web page is pretty scary
13:55  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে
  Oz Linden  I suspect that if we shipped that, we'd get beaten up for shipping a flakey half-baked almost-feature
  oobscure  which had previously been removed for the same reason
13:56    no?
  draconis.neurocam  most tpvs dont have the qa ll does
  oobscure  another TPV feature that seems very useful is Area Object Search - Imprudence > Advanced menu
  Ima Mechanique  AnneMarie, does the shoe-bling help the fishing?
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  Is there a way to fully bake it so we don't have to ship it half baked?
  Kraptacular Kat  snhiney flashy things attract fish
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  I guess the problem is that the region isn't recorded server-side, just the in-region position.
13:57  Oz Linden  well, for example, it sounds to me as though what gets saved is the location within the region
  oobscure  Area Object Search (not a pronoun) looks for objects in local area. by name, description, owner and group.
  Oz Linden  100,15,24 kind of thing
    but not the region
  oobscure  I should have waited. sorry.
  Oz Linden  if I restore an object to a location that's inaccessible, I've lost it
13:58    features that lose inventory are not very popular :-(
  draconis.neurocam  fair enough
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  SL needs an "undo" button.
  Oz Linden  What is Area Object Search
  draconis.neurocam  ctrl z
  Yuzuru  it is good to restore only rotation.
13:59  oobscure  Area Object Search (not a pronoun) looks for objects in local area .. by name, description, owner and group.
  draconis.neurocam  it basically lets you search object names in scene by the client
  Oz Linden  A general Undo is impossible in SL
  oobscure  it has a separate floater
  draconis.neurocam  the feature*
  Oz Linden  the intereactions are far too complex
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  yeah, I know
14:00  Office Orb  Your timer has expired!
  Oz Linden  what's the range?
    not sure
  Oz Linden  sounds like it could be handy when shopping.....
14:01  draconis.neurocam  last i looked at the code when object area search was in emerald it was anything in draw/ the client could see
  Kraptacular Kat  yes it would
  Oz Linden  if the store actually gave objects names and descriptoins
  Ima Mechanique  for me it would be handy when building, lose prims all the time
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  Probably the object has to be within view distance, so that the viewer knows about it?
  Kraptacular Kat  also good trying to find a griefer object
  Oz Linden  I've bought more than one "Object"
14:02    Interesting....
    Listen ... this has been great, but I've got to go ....
  Office Orb  End transcription
  oobscure  boroondas : you can teleport to
    thanks Oz
  Yuzuru  Thank you Oz.
  draconis.neurocam  take care oz