Open Development User Group/Archive/2011-05-02

07:01	Office Orb	mail_to set to oz@lindenlab.com
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	Oz Linden	Hi everyone
	Wolfpup	hey Oz
07:02	Oz Linden	one moment.... need to update something in jira...
	Wolfpup	Boroondas looks like i might need to think about working on getting this lappy im on set up for linux dev work
07:03	draconis.neurocam	hello oz
	Wolfpup	all thought the fps right now sucks
	Liisa Runo	OH cancelled cube still in sandcastle ;)
07:05	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	What distribution, Wolfpup?
07:06	Wolfpup	Ubuntuflavored Broondas
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	then https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Compiling_the_viewer_%%28Linux%%29 should get you going
	Oz Linden	There... sorry
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	np
07:07	Oz Linden	I'm a little behind this morning.... had to push some changes for the next beta candidate
		I'll collect my cancelled cube after we're done here... that meeting should be ok this week
07:08		So.... no new OPEN issues to triage this week, so the floor is open
07:09	Twisted Laws	as a submitter, what do i do after a review is marked Ship It ?
	Youri Ashton	oz, have you found out why the last few updates show installer issues? or someone within the lab?
	Oz Linden	Wait until the jira issue says that it's been integrated, and then you can get rid of your repo
	draconis.neurocam	youri, do you mean the lack of sound and kdu?
07:10	Youri Ashton	i said installer, nothing about sound :p
	draconis.neurocam	ah alright
	Youri Ashton	i keep having messages during installing about missing files
	Oz Linden	I have not caught up on all my mail yet, but I have not heard of any installer issue
	Youri Ashton	thats both on my laptop as pc
	Oz Linden	what platform?
07:11		and what viewer versions?
	Youri Ashton	I even tried a complete clean install on both machines, and it still gave the same issues
		windows vista for PC, and the laptop windows 7
07:12	FERRET	aha i found the party
	Wolfpup	Oz i just looked @ storm-1215 and your comment about the improper use of LL_RELEASE_FOR_DOWNLOAD is actualy for fetching the Quciktime files for devs in OS env\
	Office Orb	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1215 STORM-1215 No any sounds
07:13	Youri Ashton	it actually tells me nothing about missing files in that area
		it misses viewer files
	Oz Linden	put a comment on the associated code review please, Wolfpup
07:14	Youri Ashton	its really annoying when you have to keep clicking ignore for all missing files :S
	Oz Linden	Youri, I have not seen any reports... please check recent jiras and if you don't find your problem, file a new one
	Youri Ashton	i didnt have time to add a jira yet, RL stuff
	Oz Linden	Please be as specific as possible about what the errors are and all version info
	Youri Ashton	ill do a full repro if i can then
07:15	Oz Linden	Certainly our QA has not seen those problems....
	Youri Ashton	just hope the installer doesnt get picky
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	picky about what?
	Youri Ashton	about when to show these problems or not
		seen that happen more often
07:16	Twisted Laws	could be the redistributable files missing which i think someone has a patch in for
	Youri Ashton	not sure, it reffered to at least a couple of viewer files directly
		vital ones
07:17		got 2 more issues i found
07:18	Oz Linden	?
	Youri Ashton	1 is after a crash (and trust me it happens often) i see "slplugin" in the task manager staying enabled.
		meaning it does crash the viewer, but not slplugin
07:19	Oz Linden	what version of the viewer are you running?
	Youri Ashton	lag adding since it shows up sometimes with 10 times at a time
		latest... hmm.. lemme get it
		Second Life 2.6.3 (227447) Apr 22 2011 13:46:11 (Second Life Release)
07:20		last problem, but i think that is more in general, voice keeps going away or not evne load at all. specially for my laptop, but often for my pc as well
07:21		downloaded the latest viewer not that long ago, last week or so
	Oz Linden	Well, all I can suggest is that you document those carefully in issues
07:22	Youri Ashton	only thing i can do in coming weeks is report it in OH's, im helping a friend with his wedding
		RL wedding
07:23	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	next topic?
	Oz Linden	?
07:24		Expect many changes coming to viewer-development this week....
	Youri Ashton	like? hints?
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	Hints?
07:25	Oz Linden	the plan is to merge the mesh branch. The mesh features won't be enabled yet (they need support from the grid)
	FERRET	a working kdu maybe?
	Youri Ashton	well its a start indeed :p
		know when it may be enabled?
	Oz Linden	but lots of other rendering improvements and some other fixes will b
		no, I don't know
07:26	Youri Ashton	darned
	Oz Linden	and if I did I wouldn't tell you (but I really don't)
	Wolfpup	wekk that means work needs to be started on getting a 3p-convexdecomp working then
07:27	Oz Linden	yes, getting an open lib for that would be good, but even if you don't have it, the only thing that you won't be able to do is upload a new mesh
07:28	Wolfpup	Oz i havetried to builf the mesh viewer and it will NOT build in an OS dev env as there are now missing functions
	Youri Ashton	well having a taste of it would be a good start at least, i guess
		better then nothing
07:29		could you tell to what mesh can be applied? Just avitar skin? or also prims?
	Oz Linden	There are some dependencies that will need to be adjusted, I think, Wolfpup, including replacing the package for the llconvexdecomp library
07:30	draconis.neurocam	it can be an attachment that wraps to the avatar skeleton, or just an object in world youri
	Oz Linden	I'm not really the right person to ask about mesh features, but yes, both mesh for avatars and other objects is included
	Youri Ashton	ok, sounds great :)
		good leap forward
	Wolfpup	there also new functions in llmesh that cause the compile to fail when building the secondlife-bin project
07:31		Youri new max prim sizes are comeing with mesh as well
07:32	Youri Ashton	new prim limit?
		hmm... liek what size?
	Oz Linden	I believe that there's a new integrated repo that Merov created last week where they are sorting out merge issues.... I'm not yet caught up....
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	64m, IIRC
	Wolfpup	so we can say soline to all megas below 64m
	Youri Ashton	64m? omg, that would cause a lot of prims to drop from my work ^_^
		and i managed to kill about 60%% already
	Oz Linden	Right. I don't know when that new limit will take effect...
07:33		... it too requires server side support.
	FERRET	will mesh be as messy as when sculpties were introduced?
	Oz Linden	I believe that's independent of mesh itself, but it's in the same set of changes and I don't know if they will be deployed separately or together
	draconis.neurocam	lestat, i think it will be much cleaner
	Youri Ashton	think that prim size limit is fixed in no time oz, shouldnt take to much problems to dig trough
07:34	Oz Linden	Well, I was not here when sculpties were introduced... how messy was it?
	draconis.neurocam	when it first launched the features that actually made it where it is today didnt exist
	Youri Ashton	cant really compair sculpties to changing the prim size limit :p
	draconis.neurocam	and had to be tacked on afterward
	FERRET	very...even snowglobe 1.4 still couldnt get them right
07:35	Wolfpup	Oz i know someone @ LL made a new llconvexdecomp repository to show the access for havoc for those that start an OS project based off of the stub for making an OS lib for it
	draconis.neurocam	such as flipping, inverting, and lossless compression
	Youri Ashton	older sculpties often deform when your camera gets further away as well, some new ones still do
07:36	draconis.neurocam	youri, that is dependant on how they were made
07:37	Wolfpup	i think the best way to upload a sculpty now is to use either png or tga not jpeg
	Youri Ashton	i know, but still they do show it. some setting change fixed it temperarily, but after a crash or relog you have to do with default settings again
		look at that texture oz
		it tells how it can be fixed
	Techwolf Lupindo	The history of LOD was that it was changed/made to where lowest was 1.0 and hightes was 1.25 when relity should have been 3 for highest graphics setting. I still get auto-handed NC about setting the LOD to fix skupties at shops.
	Youri Ashton	well... temp at least...
07:39	Oz Linden	My understanding is that mesh will be less sensitive to that sort of problem
	Youri Ashton	think i sended to everyone now
	Twisted Laws	that stub is https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/llconvexdecomposition/overview
	Oz Linden	yes, that's the stub
	draconis.neurocam	yes mesh will have a definable lod, or none at all, at the cost of prim equality
07:40	Youri Ashton	still annoying as hell
07:41	draconis.neurocam	changing rendervolumelodfactor above 4 gives no noticable effects i thought, and actually becomes detrimental
	Youri Ashton	this same type of problem can be there for mesh
	Wolfpup	the stub is actualy here > https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/llconvexdecompositionstub/overview
	Oz Linden	I've been thinking about the problem of open devs needing to add or replace locally built packages
	draconis.neurocam	any solutions oz?
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	Is some consistence between different LOD levels enforced, or could one upload a mesh that'll look completely different from different distances?
	Oz Linden	I'd like to find a good solution for making that easier
	Wolfpup	Oz the file:/// method works for me just fine
07:42	Youri Ashton	however it may be, it needs to be solved. not everyone knows this solution
	Oz Linden	yes, but you need to manually do it every time you check out a new repo
	draconis.neurocam	boroondas, you have control over that, and yes i have seen meshes that look drastically different at distance
	Oz Linden	and there are an increasing number of packages for which it's needed
	Thickbrick Sleaford	Boroondas, I think enforcing that is a pretty hard problem to solve (and also not needed.)
07:43	draconis.neurocam	i agree with thickbrick
	Youri Ashton	ill send you a texture that should cause a problem like this oz
	Oz Linden	I don't really have a solution I'm happy with, yet....
	Wolfpup	the only one i need it for is fmod right now eveything else i use comes from LL
	Youri Ashton	that one SHOULD show the problem
07:44	Oz Linden	right, but you'll need the convexdecomp stub soon, and probably others over time
	Youri Ashton	its full perm, feel free to send it to the right team
	Oz Linden	thank you, Youri
	Youri Ashton	just make sure you do not give it to the wrong people, its boughed :p
07:46	Oz Linden	When you replace a package, do you use the autobuild command to modify the config, or do you just edit the xml file? and do you make a copy, or use the autobuild.xml directly?
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	Why can't we put a prebuilt llconvexdecomp stub package on the server to be fetched by autobuild? This is LL code, so there should be no problems distributing binaries.
	Youri Ashton	sorry, not home in sculpts, really wouldnt know much about it
07:47		only way i know how to use them, is by the build menu
	Wolfpup	Oz i mod the xml directly then that way the settings and packages are handled automaticaly
	Oz Linden	We could do that, Boroondas, but you'd still need to change the config file to use the stub instead of the real lib
		That's a good idea, though.... I'll follow up on that
07:48	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	why that? we have different configurations of open source builds, so those could reference the stub until a replacement is there.
	Wolfpup	there is one Boroondas
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	(and once the replacement is there, we should of course switch the config to that.)
07:49	Wolfpup	at lease befor autobuild merged in
	Oz Linden	because the 'installables' section of the autobuild.xml doesn't know or care what configuration you're building... it just tries to install all dependencies, so we can't set it up to load the real lib or the stub depending on what you can use
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	soo .... that should probably be changed, then
07:50	Oz Linden	yeah.... something.....
		not sure what the right answer is yet
	Wolfpup	Oz actualy you can have both there as the normal one is propiteary and the sub is not so for OS devs it would download
07:51	Oz Linden	but at present, I think both would unpack into the same directory
		which would break builds for Lindens
07:52	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	well, maybe packages should have some notion of blocking each other
		those with conflicting files could then not be installed at the same time
	Oz Linden	we'd still need a way to select them
	Wolfpup	true you could have the build env do an 'override
07:53	Thickbrick Sleaford	it sounds like the solution is for build configs to be able to inject dependencies, to you can have a "proprietary" meta package and an "opensource" meta package.
	Oz Linden	Ideally, I'd like to be able to conditionalize a package based on both platform and configuration
		that's a thought, Thickbrick
	Wolfpup	ie if on LL buold farms then use propertiarey else use 3p
07:54	Oz Linden	right now, autobuild does not do either recursive dependency checking or version checking....
	Wolfpup	and that cold be put in as part of the autobuild system its self
	Oz Linden	which would help somewhat for those
07:55		but you'd still need a conditional package mechanism....
	Wolfpup	for example if you use the ReleaseOS setting then use all 3p libs
	Oz Linden	.... or, we might be able to make do with a 'try this, else use that' system.
07:56	Wolfpup	and if building normal Release then use internals
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	well, with dependency resolution and conditional dependencies we'd be set up much better for whatever might pop up in the future
	Oz Linden	I'm not sure what the answer is, only that it's a problem that will get more annoying over time
07:57	draconis.neurocam	i would think something hierarchical would work best, so if you select something farther down, it would use something else
	Oz Linden	dependency resolution is something that I suspect LL will decide it needs and do eventually (no guess when that might be), but a conditional mechanism is probably something we'll have to build here in the opendev world.
07:58		I'll create an OPEN issue to describe the problem space, and we can begin thinking about solutions
	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে	ok
07:59	Oz Linden	and that you'll have to limber up your python coding muscles :-)
08:00	Office Orb	Your timer has expired!
	Wolfpup	< dose not even want to venture into python
	Youri Ashton	aight, thank you for the OH oz
	draconis.neurocam	python isnt hard
	Youri Ashton	im off for now!
	draconis.neurocam	yes, thank you oz, take care
	Youri Ashton	laters all!
	Thickbrick Sleaford	WolfPup, you should. Python is fun!
	Oz Linden	see you all next time...
08:01	Wolfpup	tc oz
	Twisted Laws	bye
	Office Orb	End transcription