Open Development User Group/Archive/2011-05-02

From Second Life Wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search
07:01  Office Orb  mail_to set to
    Start transcription to
    Transcript will be sent to:
  Oz Linden  Hi everyone
  Wolfpup  hey Oz
07:02  Oz Linden  one moment.... need to update something in jira...
  Wolfpup  Boroondas looks like i might need to think about working on getting this lappy im on set up for linux dev work
07:03  draconis.neurocam  hello oz
  Wolfpup  all thought the fps right now sucks
  Liisa Runo  OH cancelled cube still in sandcastle ;)
07:05  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  What distribution, Wolfpup?
07:06  Wolfpup  Ubuntuflavored Broondas
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  then should get you going
  Oz Linden  There... sorry
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  np
07:07  Oz Linden  I'm a little behind this morning.... had to push some changes for the next beta candidate
    I'll collect my cancelled cube after we're done here... that meeting should be ok this week
07:08    So.... no new OPEN issues to triage this week, so the floor is open
07:09  Twisted Laws  as a submitter, what do i do after a review is marked Ship It ?
  Youri Ashton  oz, have you found out why the last few updates show installer issues? or someone within the lab?
  Oz Linden  Wait until the jira issue says that it's been integrated, and then you can get rid of your repo
  draconis.neurocam  youri, do you mean the lack of sound and kdu?
07:10  Youri Ashton  i said installer, nothing about sound :p
  draconis.neurocam  ah alright
  Youri Ashton  i keep having messages during installing about missing files
  Oz Linden  I have not caught up on all my mail yet, but I have not heard of any installer issue
  Youri Ashton  thats both on my laptop as pc
  Oz Linden  what platform?
07:11    and what viewer versions?
  Youri Ashton  I even tried a complete clean install on both machines, and it still gave the same issues
    windows vista for PC, and the laptop windows 7
07:12  FERRET  aha i found the party
  Wolfpup  Oz i just looked @ storm-1215 and your comment about the improper use of LL_RELEASE_FOR_DOWNLOAD is actualy for fetching the Quciktime files for devs in OS env\
  Office Orb

STORM-1215 No any sounds

07:13  Youri Ashton  it actually tells me nothing about missing files in that area
    it misses viewer files
  Oz Linden  put a comment on the associated code review please, Wolfpup
07:14  Youri Ashton  its really annoying when you have to keep clicking ignore for all missing files :S
  Oz Linden  Youri, I have not seen any reports... please check recent jiras and if you don't find your problem, file a new one
  Youri Ashton  i didnt have time to add a jira yet, RL stuff
  Oz Linden  Please be as specific as possible about what the errors are and all version info
  Youri Ashton  ill do a full repro if i can then
07:15  Oz Linden  Certainly our QA has not seen those problems....
  Youri Ashton  just hope the installer doesnt get picky
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  picky about what?
  Youri Ashton  about when to show these problems or not
    seen that happen more often
07:16  Twisted Laws  could be the redistributable files missing which i think someone has a patch in for
  Youri Ashton  not sure, it reffered to at least a couple of viewer files directly
    vital ones
07:17    got 2 more issues i found
07:18  Oz Linden  ?
  Youri Ashton  1 is after a crash (and trust me it happens often) i see "slplugin" in the task manager staying enabled.
    meaning it does crash the viewer, but not slplugin
07:19  Oz Linden  what version of the viewer are you running?
  Youri Ashton  lag adding since it shows up sometimes with 10 times at a time
    latest... hmm.. lemme get it
    Second Life 2.6.3 (227447) Apr 22 2011 13:46:11 (Second Life Release)
07:20    last problem, but i think that is more in general, voice keeps going away or not evne load at all. specially for my laptop, but often for my pc as well
07:21    downloaded the latest viewer not that long ago, last week or so
  Oz Linden  Well, all I can suggest is that you document those carefully in issues
07:22  Youri Ashton  only thing i can do in coming weeks is report it in OH's, im helping a friend with his wedding
    RL wedding
07:23  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  next topic?
  Oz Linden  ?
07:24    Expect many changes coming to viewer-development this week....
  Youri Ashton  like? hints?
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  Hints?
07:25  Oz Linden  the plan is to merge the mesh branch. The mesh features won't be enabled yet (they need support from the grid)
  FERRET  a working kdu maybe?
  Youri Ashton  well its a start indeed :p
    know when it may be enabled?
  Oz Linden  but lots of other rendering improvements and some other fixes will b
    no, I don't know
07:26  Youri Ashton  darned
  Oz Linden  and if I did I wouldn't tell you (but I really don't)
  Wolfpup  wekk that means work needs to be started on getting a 3p-convexdecomp working then
07:27  Oz Linden  yes, getting an open lib for that would be good, but even if you don't have it, the only thing that you won't be able to do is upload a new mesh
07:28  Wolfpup  Oz i havetried to builf the mesh viewer and it will NOT build in an OS dev env as there are now missing functions
  Youri Ashton  well having a taste of it would be a good start at least, i guess
    better then nothing
07:29    could you tell to what mesh can be applied? Just avitar skin? or also prims?
  Oz Linden  There are some dependencies that will need to be adjusted, I think, Wolfpup, including replacing the package for the llconvexdecomp library
07:30  draconis.neurocam  it can be an attachment that wraps to the avatar skeleton, or just an object in world youri
  Oz Linden  I'm not really the right person to ask about mesh features, but yes, both mesh for avatars and other objects is included
  Youri Ashton  ok, sounds great :)
    good leap forward
  Wolfpup  there also new functions in llmesh that cause the compile to fail when building the secondlife-bin project
07:31    Youri new max prim sizes are comeing with mesh as well
07:32  Youri Ashton  new prim limit?
    hmm... liek what size?
  Oz Linden  I believe that there's a new integrated repo that Merov created last week where they are sorting out merge issues.... I'm not yet caught up....
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  64m, IIRC
  Wolfpup  so we can say soline to all megas below 64m
  Youri Ashton  64m? omg, that would cause a lot of prims to drop from my work ^_^
    and i managed to kill about 60%% already
  Oz Linden  Right. I don't know when that new limit will take effect...
07:33    ... it too requires server side support.
  FERRET  will mesh be as messy as when sculpties were introduced?
  Oz Linden  I believe that's independent of mesh itself, but it's in the same set of changes and I don't know if they will be deployed separately or together
  draconis.neurocam  lestat, i think it will be much cleaner
  Youri Ashton  think that prim size limit is fixed in no time oz, shouldnt take to much problems to dig trough
07:34  Oz Linden  Well, I was not here when sculpties were introduced... how messy was it?
  draconis.neurocam  when it first launched the features that actually made it where it is today didnt exist
  Youri Ashton  cant really compair sculpties to changing the prim size limit :p
  draconis.neurocam  and had to be tacked on afterward
  FERRET  very...even snowglobe 1.4 still couldnt get them right
07:35  Wolfpup  Oz i know someone @ LL made a new llconvexdecomp repository to show the access for havoc for those that start an OS project based off of the stub for making an OS lib for it
  draconis.neurocam  such as flipping, inverting, and lossless compression
  Youri Ashton  older sculpties often deform when your camera gets further away as well, some new ones still do
07:36  draconis.neurocam  youri, that is dependant on how they were made
07:37  Wolfpup  i think the best way to upload a sculpty now is to use either png or tga not jpeg
  Youri Ashton  i know, but still they do show it. some setting change fixed it temperarily, but after a crash or relog you have to do with default settings again
    look at that texture oz
    it tells how it can be fixed
  Techwolf Lupindo  The history of LOD was that it was changed/made to where lowest was 1.0 and hightes was 1.25 when relity should have been 3 for highest graphics setting. I still get auto-handed NC about setting the LOD to fix skupties at shops.
  Youri Ashton  well... temp at least...
07:39  Oz Linden  My understanding is that mesh will be less sensitive to that sort of problem
  Youri Ashton  think i sended to everyone now
  Twisted Laws  that stub is
  Oz Linden  yes, that's the stub
  draconis.neurocam  yes mesh will have a definable lod, or none at all, at the cost of prim equality
07:40  Youri Ashton  still annoying as hell
07:41  draconis.neurocam  changing rendervolumelodfactor above 4 gives no noticable effects i thought, and actually becomes detrimental
  Youri Ashton  this same type of problem can be there for mesh
  Wolfpup  the stub is actualy here >
  Oz Linden  I've been thinking about the problem of open devs needing to add or replace locally built packages
  draconis.neurocam  any solutions oz?
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  Is some consistence between different LOD levels enforced, or could one upload a mesh that'll look completely different from different distances?
  Oz Linden  I'd like to find a good solution for making that easier
  Wolfpup  Oz the file:/// method works for me just fine
07:42  Youri Ashton  however it may be, it needs to be solved. not everyone knows this solution
  Oz Linden  yes, but you need to manually do it every time you check out a new repo
  draconis.neurocam  boroondas, you have control over that, and yes i have seen meshes that look drastically different at distance
  Oz Linden  and there are an increasing number of packages for which it's needed
  Thickbrick Sleaford  Boroondas, I think enforcing that is a pretty hard problem to solve (and also not needed.)
07:43  draconis.neurocam  i agree with thickbrick
  Youri Ashton  ill send you a texture that should cause a problem like this oz
  Oz Linden  I don't really have a solution I'm happy with, yet....
  Wolfpup  the only one i need it for is fmod right now eveything else i use comes from LL
  Youri Ashton  that one SHOULD show the problem
07:44  Oz Linden  right, but you'll need the convexdecomp stub soon, and probably others over time
  Youri Ashton  its full perm, feel free to send it to the right team
  Oz Linden  thank you, Youri
  Youri Ashton  just make sure you do not give it to the wrong people, its boughed :p
07:46  Oz Linden  When you replace a package, do you use the autobuild command to modify the config, or do you just edit the xml file? and do you make a copy, or use the autobuild.xml directly?
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  Why can't we put a prebuilt llconvexdecomp stub package on the server to be fetched by autobuild? This is LL code, so there should be no problems distributing binaries.
  Youri Ashton  sorry, not home in sculpts, really wouldnt know much about it
07:47    only way i know how to use them, is by the build menu
  Wolfpup  Oz i mod the xml directly then that way the settings and packages are handled automaticaly
  Oz Linden  We could do that, Boroondas, but you'd still need to change the config file to use the stub instead of the real lib
    That's a good idea, though.... I'll follow up on that
07:48  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  why that? we have different configurations of open source builds, so those could reference the stub until a replacement is there.
  Wolfpup  there is one Boroondas
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  (and once the replacement is there, we should of course switch the config to that.)
07:49  Wolfpup  at lease befor autobuild merged in
  Oz Linden  because the 'installables' section of the autobuild.xml doesn't know or care what configuration you're building... it just tries to install all dependencies, so we can't set it up to load the real lib or the stub depending on what you can use
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  soo .... that should probably be changed, then
07:50  Oz Linden  yeah.... something.....
    not sure what the right answer is yet
  Wolfpup  Oz actualy you can have both there as the normal one is propiteary and the sub is not so for OS devs it would download
07:51  Oz Linden  but at present, I think both would unpack into the same directory
    which would break builds for Lindens
07:52  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  well, maybe packages should have some notion of blocking each other
    those with conflicting files could then not be installed at the same time
  Oz Linden  we'd still need a way to select them
  Wolfpup  true you could have the build env do an 'override
07:53  Thickbrick Sleaford  it sounds like the solution is for build configs to be able to inject dependencies, to you can have a "proprietary" meta package and an "opensource" meta package.
  Oz Linden  Ideally, I'd like to be able to conditionalize a package based on both platform and configuration
    that's a thought, Thickbrick
  Wolfpup  ie if on LL buold farms then use propertiarey else use 3p
07:54  Oz Linden  right now, autobuild does not do either recursive dependency checking or version checking....
  Wolfpup  and that cold be put in as part of the autobuild system its self
  Oz Linden  which would help somewhat for those
07:55    but you'd still need a conditional package mechanism....
  Wolfpup  for example if you use the ReleaseOS setting then use all 3p libs
  Oz Linden  .... or, we might be able to make do with a 'try this, else use that' system.
07:56  Wolfpup  and if building normal Release then use internals
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  well, with dependency resolution and conditional dependencies we'd be set up much better for whatever might pop up in the future
  Oz Linden  I'm not sure what the answer is, only that it's a problem that will get more annoying over time
07:57  draconis.neurocam  i would think something hierarchical would work best, so if you select something farther down, it would use something else
  Oz Linden  dependency resolution is something that I suspect LL will decide it needs and do eventually (no guess when that might be), but a conditional mechanism is probably something we'll have to build here in the opendev world.
07:58    I'll create an OPEN issue to describe the problem space, and we can begin thinking about solutions
  বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  ok
07:59  Oz Linden  and that you'll have to limber up your python coding muscles :-)
08:00  Office Orb  Your timer has expired!
  Wolfpup  < dose not even want to venture into python
  Youri Ashton  aight, thank you for the OH oz
  draconis.neurocam  python isnt hard
  Youri Ashton  im off for now!
  draconis.neurocam  yes, thank you oz, take care
  Youri Ashton  laters all!
  Thickbrick Sleaford  WolfPup, you should. Python is fun!
  Oz Linden  see you all next time...
08:01  Wolfpup  tc oz
  Twisted Laws  bye
  Office Orb  End transcription