Open Development User Group/Archive/2011-05-11

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13:30  Oz Linden  hi all
  Yuzuru  Hello Oz.
  Ima Mechanique  hey Oz
  The avatar formerly know as  wades through the lag
  Nicky Perian  hi
13:31  Oz Linden  No new issues in OPEN
13:32    Have I mentioned that both in STORM and in VWR there are pseudo-versions for Open Development Candidates ....
    those are issues that would make good tasks for open devs to pick up
  Ima Mechanique  hmm, once or twice I think you might have ;-)
  Oz Linden  (we like them but are unlikely to be able to do them soon ourselves)
13:33    I just came from triage.... we added a couple ... it was on my mine
  Yuzuru  Was mesh build marged to devs?
  Oz Linden  not yet...
    they have not resolved the render problems on Macs yet
  The avatar formerly know as  CMAKE stuff, are you guys doing some prep work for refactoring?
13:34  Oz Linden  Brad and a few others have been doing some things to try to make builds faster
    other than that, there's no refactoring that I know of going on
  The avatar formerly know as  Is that the only goal? Not that making builds faster is not awesome enough.
13:35  Oz Linden  well, in the process I think they're finding things that are just cruft and getting rid of them, but build time is the primary motivator
    Windows build time especially (it is by far the long pole)
  The avatar formerly know as  'Package' could go for a scrapping
13:36  Oz Linden  ?
  Ima Mechanique  packaging is just a tad verbose
    double-spaced output for example
13:37  The avatar formerly know as  The packaging stage actually takes about as long or longer than linking on my sys, that seems a little much to me.
  Oz Linden  I don't do that locally much, and tend to just let it run in the background
    If you can figure out ways to improve it, we'd love to hear them.
13:38    We've started adding RAM to our systems to attack the link time
13:39  The avatar formerly know as  SSD help even more with link time.
  Zi Ree  8 GB of RAM makes linking bearable.
  The avatar formerly know as  I link in under 5-10 minutes usually now.
  Zi Ree  has around 60 to 80 seconds.
13:40  The avatar formerly know as  Linux though right?
  Oz Linden  I like the rule of thumb that putting in all the ram you can afford and the system can use is a great idea
  Zi Ree  Yes, Linux.
  The avatar formerly know as  More RAM is never a bad thing.
  Zi Ree  *nondods*
13:41  Oz Linden  We've done some windows trial builds in 12 minutes
  Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks  <- 16gb ram
  The avatar formerly know as  has 24GB :P
    My build times for Phoenix on windows are under 7 minutes I think for a full release config.
  Oz Linden  alas, our build servers are not (yet) that fast
13:42  Zi Ree  It takes me around 25 minutes for a full rebuild.
  The avatar formerly know as  Mine's only 2.4ghz I think
    Likely less.
13:43  Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks  if we are onto a new topic, anything we should know about the vorbs deal, as in how to test to make sure we got it fixed?
13:44  The avatar formerly know as  Yeah, I've only managed to hear a very little about that
  Zi Ree  Is there a demo exploit somewhere?
  The avatar formerly know as  ^
13:45  Oz Linden  Unfortunately, we can't publish a test plan without also advertising a pretty bad attack vector
  The avatar formerly know as  And I assume LL has the vorbis code for the libs up on their HG, right? I havent had a change to check yet.
  Zi Ree  Mmmh ...
  Oz Linden  yes, it's there, with an autobuild package
13:46  The avatar formerly know as  Does it have configs for vc80 still?
  Oz Linden  We have verified that the newer version fixes the crash bug
    we're still confirming that it does not introduce any regressions
  The avatar formerly know as  needs to build vc80 versions.
  Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks
13:47  Oz Linden  unless that repo has the vc80 stuff in its history, no
    has not looked
  The avatar formerly know as  Thats the only one that needs to be updated for this exploit?
  Oz Linden  yes, just the two libs that repo builds
13:48  Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks  no code changes to the viewer either?
  Oz Linden  no code changes in the viewer that we know of yet... like I said, we're still regression testing
  Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks  ok
13:49  Oz Linden  There will be commits for this in viewer-pre-beta and viewer-pre-release some time today (assuming testing goes well), followed shortly by viewer-development
13:50    but so far they are just that lib upgrade
13:51    Has everyone patched their viewers to accept the new avatar update messages?
13:52  Zi Ree  We did.
13:53    Oz, I'm not sure if I understood it correctly, so I might be a bit vague. One of our devs pointed out that there was a change made to the PNG library, but the library itself was not packaged yet. I was asked to bring it to your attention.
  Oz Linden  I have not heard anything about that....
13:54  Zi Ree  Mmmhm ... ok. I'll try to get more information about what it was exactly.
  Oz Linden  I see in the change history that the dev who did it is from the mesh team
13:55    it may be (I'd go so far as to it's likely) that the change is only integrated on the mesh branch and will merge with that
  Zi Ree  Ok!
  The avatar formerly know as  Hmmm, looks like I can build those libs manually pretty easily.
13:56    The autobuild script wouldnt even run on my sys, complained I was missing some commands.
  Oz Linden  that's the idea !
  The avatar formerly know as  But it has MSVC project files for every version :3
13:58  Oz Linden  sometimes you get lucky
14:00    Someone posted in the SL viewer forum the other day asking about song titles
    Anyone know how the viewers that display those get titles?
  Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks  from the audio stream itself
14:01  Ima Mechanique  I imagine they take it from the MP3 stream data
  Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks  its encoded with the stream
14:02  Oz Linden  I guess I've never activated that when running any tpv (I usually leave media off)
    where do the titles show up?
  Zi Ree  The OpenjAL library exposes the stream info I think.
  Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks  local chat in phoenix
  Ima Mechanique  in chat
  Zi Ree  The names go into open chat as system messages.
  Ima Mechanique  it's a neat feature ;-)
    makes the script I wrote obsolete
14:03  Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks  in most lpv, its a preference you enable to see the song info
  Oz Linden  if someone put that together for viewer-development, I think I could get it integrated pretty quickly
14:04  Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks  we have it in firestorm, shouldnt be to hard to port over
  Oz Linden  I met with the head of our User Experience team for much of the last two days, and there are a number of things we're going to be asking for
14:05  Ima Mechanique  asking us for? or asking the head?
  Oz Linden  asking tpvs to contribute
14:07    I've been pushing the notion that LL should think of all TPVs as innovation labs, and importing the best of what they come up with
  Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks  katherine berry was the one that developed the song info
  Zi Ree  polishes her claws.
  Oz Linden  that attitude is gaining a lot of traction
14:08  Zi Ree  I like this idea :)
  Oz Linden  you'll be hearing it more
14:09  Ima Mechanique  makes sense. LL's viewer will always be more conservative on new stuff
  Zi Ree  Being official and all.
14:10  Nicky Perian  Got to grap my chain saw and cut storm downed trees to firewood. Later folks.
  Oz Linden  well, there are things it's hard for TPVs to do... anything that requires extensive server support, for example
  Zi Ree  Yes.
  Ima Mechanique  bye Nicky, good to see you
14:11  Zi Ree  I had to find a few ... workarounds for things I added to Firestorm *chuckles*
  Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks  tc nicky
  Oz Linden  but there lots of things you can try without that, and we are hoping that we can leverage that ability
  Techwolf Lupindo  Made it.
  Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks  :P
14:12  Zi Ree  There is quite a lot one can do without having server support. So I guess we can come up with more things in the future :)
14:13  Ima Mechanique  what ever happened to http textures?
    I mean external textures
  Oz Linden  they are in use
14:14    external?
  Ima Mechanique  able to set a internet URL for a prim?
  Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks  pulling textures directly off the web, i think
  Zi Ree  Isn't that in V2 by default?
  Ima Mechanique  yup
  Oz Linden  yes, it is
  Tonya Souther  Media on a Prim. It's a Viewer 2 feature.
14:15  Oz Linden  it's sort of a degenerate case, but it's there
  Ima Mechanique  not MoaP
  Oz Linden  I think that there are some isses with texture scaling when doing that...
  Ima Mechanique  for example there was supposed to be a llSetTextureURL() function
  Cron Stardust  There's an old conflation here I think..
14:16  Oz Linden  I've found it's usually easier to import and upload the texture than use the URL, but then I'm not paying for the uploads :-)
  Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks  >.>
  Oz Linden  ah... well I wouldn't know about the LSL
    that's not a viewer thing
  Ima Mechanique  Someone raised the subject on the Scripting ML. piqued my curiosity again ;-)
14:18  Cron Stardust  Back when HHTP Textures was being announced, a lot of people (including myself for a period of time) thought it meant "I wil be able to set a URL for a texture instead of using an asset!" Thus the conflation with what became MoaP. :P
  Ima Mechanique  before HTTP textures there was a project which amied to do just that Cron
14:19    it changed into HTTP textures later I think
    at least that's how the wiki reads
    I remember doing some experiments with SMIL
14:20  Oz Linden  there is a way to do that....
14:21    HTTP Textures refers to using HTTP (as opposed to UDP) to fetch texture assets, though
    different feature
14:23  Cron Stardust  Just had a orthoganal thought...
14:24  Oz Linden  ?
  Cron Stardust  What would it take to get the water to warp based on the reflection map... I see from Wireframe that there's not a lot of polys dedicated to the water though...
14:25  Oz Linden  Warp how?
  Zi Ree  Water is just a flat surface with a texture on it.
  Kraptacular Kat  would be nice to see water as a parallax shader
  Cron Stardust  move vertically so that object-water and land-water boundarys shift (so it looks fluid)
14:26  Kraptacular Kat  yep
  Oz Linden  oh. I don't know.
  Kraptacular Kat  that would be something to bring up to Runtitai after mesh is released
14:27    Runitai I mean
  Oz Linden  you can make it look choppier, as long as you don't look too closely at that boundary
  Cron Stardust  IIRC there's a new shader type in OpenGL that can add polys on the fly - maybe do dynamic poly creation on the surface and shift based on a heightma or some such :P
  Yuzuru  normal map?
  Ima Mechanique  I gotta run out before local shop closes. bye all
14:28  Cron Stardust  correct: curren;ty the vertices don't move (and there's not enough of them to make it worth it ATM)
  Kraptacular Kat
    something almost like this
14:29  Cron Stardust  yeppers
14:30    that's perfect. (Just saw the put-a-cube int it section)
  Kraptacular Kat  perfect for that vertical movement
  Oz Linden  that's very cool
  Cron Stardust  that applied dynamically to the water would be a nice effect for beach and water operations.
14:31  Kraptacular Kat  just need it to scroll
  Cron Stardust  then (later) we could add obect-interaction to the shader (I think) so that object cause ripples and splashes based on velocity >D
  Kraptacular Kat  and overlay it with normal mapping for the water texture and tere you go
  Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks  looks similer to bump map displacement in DX
  Kraptacular Kat  kick ass water
14:32  Oz Linden  (and then he'll want the waves to reflect and refract....) :-)
  Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks  lol
  Cron Stardust  later!, but maybe :P
  Oz Linden  go for it Cron
    if you can implement it....
  Kraptacular Kat  thats why you overlay it with normal mapping that already is used for the water
  Tonya Souther  but if you build a surfboard, I'm going to get nervous.
14:33  Cron Stardust  so far I've not been able to pull myself into OpenGL 3.0 land in simple tests... WE'll see. :P
14:34  Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks  video is to blury to read the bbuild floater
  Kraptacular Kat  need to view it at a higher setting
14:35  Oz Linden  I've got to wrap up, folks.... things to do.... thanks for coming, and for the nice ambitions....
  Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks  tc oz
    thx for the info