Open Development User Group/Archive/2011-05-11

13:30	Oz Linden	hi all
	Yuzuru	Hello Oz.
	Ima Mechanique	hey Oz
	The avatar formerly know as	wades through the lag
	Nicky Perian	hi
13:31	Oz Linden	No new issues in OPEN
13:32		Have I mentioned that both in STORM and in VWR there are pseudo-versions for Open Development Candidates ....
		those are issues that would make good tasks for open devs to pick up
	Ima Mechanique	hmm, once or twice I think you might have ;-)
	Oz Linden	(we like them but are unlikely to be able to do them soon ourselves)
13:33		I just came from triage.... we added a couple ... it was on my mine
		mind
	Yuzuru	Was mesh build marged to devs?
	Oz Linden	not yet...
		they have not resolved the render problems on Macs yet
	The avatar formerly know as	CMAKE stuff, are you guys doing some prep work for refactoring?
13:34	Oz Linden	Brad and a few others have been doing some things to try to make builds faster
		other than that, there's no refactoring that I know of going on
	The avatar formerly know as	Is that the only goal? Not that making builds faster is not awesome enough.
13:35	Oz Linden	well, in the process I think they're finding things that are just cruft and getting rid of them, but build time is the primary motivator
		Windows build time especially (it is by far the long pole)
	The avatar formerly know as	'Package' could go for a scrapping
13:36	Oz Linden	?
	Ima Mechanique	packaging is just a tad verbose
		double-spaced output for example
13:37	The avatar formerly know as	The packaging stage actually takes about as long or longer than linking on my sys, that seems a little much to me.
	Oz Linden	I don't do that locally much, and tend to just let it run in the background
		If you can figure out ways to improve it, we'd love to hear them.
13:38		We've started adding RAM to our systems to attack the link time
13:39	The avatar formerly know as	SSD help even more with link time.
	Zi Ree	8 GB of RAM makes linking bearable.
	The avatar formerly know as	I link in under 5-10 minutes usually now.
	Zi Ree	has around 60 to 80 seconds.
13:40	The avatar formerly know as	Linux though right?
	Oz Linden	I like the rule of thumb that putting in all the ram you can afford and the system can use is a great idea
	Zi Ree	Yes, Linux.
	The avatar formerly know as	More RAM is never a bad thing.
	Zi Ree	*nondods*
13:41	Oz Linden	We've done some windows trial builds in 12 minutes
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	<- 16gb ram
	The avatar formerly know as	has 24GB :P
		My build times for Phoenix on windows are under 7 minutes I think for a full release config.
	Oz Linden	alas, our build servers are not (yet) that fast
13:42	Zi Ree	It takes me around 25 minutes for a full rebuild.
	The avatar formerly know as	Mine's only 2.4ghz I think
		Likely less.
13:43	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	if we are onto a new topic, anything we should know about the vorbs deal, as in how to test to make sure we got it fixed?
13:44	The avatar formerly know as	Yeah, I've only managed to hear a very little about that
	Zi Ree	Is there a demo exploit somewhere?
	The avatar formerly know as	^
13:45	Oz Linden	Unfortunately, we can't publish a test plan without also advertising a pretty bad attack vector
	The avatar formerly know as	And I assume LL has the vorbis code for the libs up on their HG, right? I havent had a change to check yet.
	Zi Ree	Mmmh ...
	Oz Linden	yes, it's there, with an autobuild package
13:46	The avatar formerly know as	Does it have configs for vc80 still?
	Oz Linden	We have verified that the newer version fixes the crash bug
		we're still confirming that it does not introduce any regressions
	The avatar formerly know as	needs to build vc80 versions.
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	http://hg.secondlife.com/3p-ogvorbis/overview
13:47	Oz Linden	unless that repo has the vc80 stuff in its history, no
		has not looked
	The avatar formerly know as	Thats the only one that needs to be updated for this exploit?
	Oz Linden	yes, just the two libs that repo builds
13:48	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	no code changes to the viewer either?
	Oz Linden	no code changes in the viewer that we know of yet... like I said, we're still regression testing
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	ok
13:49	Oz Linden	There will be commits for this in viewer-pre-beta and viewer-pre-release some time today (assuming testing goes well), followed shortly by viewer-development
13:50		but so far they are just that lib upgrade
13:51		Has everyone patched their viewers to accept the new avatar update messages?
13:52	Zi Ree	We did.
13:53		Oz, I'm not sure if I understood it correctly, so I might be a bit vague. One of our devs pointed out that there was a change made to the PNG library, but the library itself was not packaged yet. I was asked to bring it to your attention.
	Oz Linden	I have not heard anything about that....
13:54	Zi Ree	Mmmhm ... ok. I'll try to get more information about what it was exactly.
	Oz Linden	I see in the change history that the dev who did it is from the mesh team
13:55		it may be (I'd go so far as to it's likely) that the change is only integrated on the mesh branch and will merge with that
	Zi Ree	Ok!
	The avatar formerly know as	Hmmm, looks like I can build those libs manually pretty easily.
13:56		The autobuild script wouldnt even run on my sys, complained I was missing some commands.
	Oz Linden	that's the idea !
	The avatar formerly know as	But it has MSVC project files for every version :3
13:58	Oz Linden	sometimes you get lucky
14:00		Someone posted in the SL viewer forum the other day asking about song titles
		Anyone know how the viewers that display those get titles?
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	from the audio stream itself
14:01	Ima Mechanique	I imagine they take it from the MP3 stream data
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	its encoded with the stream
14:02	Oz Linden	I guess I've never activated that when running any tpv (I usually leave media off)
		where do the titles show up?
	Zi Ree	The OpenjAL library exposes the stream info I think.
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	local chat in phoenix
	Ima Mechanique	in chat
	Zi Ree	The names go into open chat as system messages.
	Ima Mechanique	it's a neat feature ;-)
		makes the script I wrote obsolete
14:03	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	in most lpv, its a preference you enable to see the song info
		tpv*
	Oz Linden	if someone put that together for viewer-development, I think I could get it integrated pretty quickly
14:04	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	we have it in firestorm, shouldnt be to hard to port over
	Oz Linden	I met with the head of our User Experience team for much of the last two days, and there are a number of things we're going to be asking for
14:05	Ima Mechanique	asking us for? or asking the head?
	Oz Linden	asking tpvs to contribute
14:07		I've been pushing the notion that LL should think of all TPVs as innovation labs, and importing the best of what they come up with
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	katherine berry was the one that developed the song info
	Zi Ree	polishes her claws.
	Oz Linden	that attitude is gaining a lot of traction
14:08	Zi Ree	I like this idea :)
	Oz Linden	you'll be hearing it more
14:09	Ima Mechanique	makes sense. LL's viewer will always be more conservative on new stuff
	Zi Ree	Being official and all.
14:10	Nicky Perian	Got to grap my chain saw and cut storm downed trees to firewood. Later folks.
	Oz Linden	well, there are things it's hard for TPVs to do... anything that requires extensive server support, for example
	Zi Ree	Yes.
	Ima Mechanique	bye Nicky, good to see you
14:11	Zi Ree	I had to find a few ... workarounds for things I added to Firestorm *chuckles*
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	tc nicky
	Oz Linden	but there lots of things you can try without that, and we are hoping that we can leverage that ability
	Techwolf Lupindo	Made it.
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	:P
14:12	Zi Ree	There is quite a lot one can do without having server support. So I guess we can come up with more things in the future :)
14:13	Ima Mechanique	what ever happened to http textures?
		I mean external textures
	Oz Linden	they are in use
14:14		external?
	Ima Mechanique	able to set a internet URL for a prim?
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	pulling textures directly off the web, i think
	Zi Ree	Isn't that in V2 by default?
	Ima Mechanique	yup
	Oz Linden	yes, it is
	Tonya Souther	Media on a Prim. It's a Viewer 2 feature.
14:15	Oz Linden	it's sort of a degenerate case, but it's there
	Ima Mechanique	not MoaP
	Oz Linden	I think that there are some isses with texture scaling when doing that...
	Ima Mechanique	for example there was supposed to be a llSetTextureURL() function
	Cron Stardust	There's an old conflation here I think..
14:16	Oz Linden	I've found it's usually easier to import and upload the texture than use the URL, but then I'm not paying for the uploads :-)
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	>.>
	Oz Linden	ah... well I wouldn't know about the LSL
		that's not a viewer thing
	Ima Mechanique	Someone raised the subject on the Scripting ML. piqued my curiosity again ;-)
14:18	Cron Stardust	Back when HHTP Textures was being announced, a lot of people (including myself for a period of time) thought it meant "I wil be able to set a URL for a texture instead of using an asset!" Thus the conflation with what became MoaP. :P
	Ima Mechanique	before HTTP textures there was a project which amied to do just that Cron
14:19		it changed into HTTP textures later I think
		at least that's how the wiki reads
		I remember doing some experiments with SMIL
14:20	Oz Linden	there is a way to do that....
14:21		HTTP Textures refers to using HTTP (as opposed to UDP) to fetch texture assets, though
		different feature
14:23	Cron Stardust	Just had a orthoganal thought...
14:24	Oz Linden	?
	Cron Stardust	What would it take to get the water to warp based on the reflection map... I see from Wireframe that there's not a lot of polys dedicated to the water though...
14:25	Oz Linden	Warp how?
	Zi Ree	Water is just a flat surface with a texture on it.
	Kraptacular Kat	would be nice to see water as a parallax shader
	Cron Stardust	move vertically so that object-water and land-water boundarys shift (so it looks fluid)
14:26	Kraptacular Kat	yep
	Oz Linden	oh. I don't know.
	Kraptacular Kat	that would be something to bring up to Runtitai after mesh is released
		crap
14:27		Runitai I mean
	Oz Linden	you can make it look choppier, as long as you don't look too closely at that boundary
	Cron Stardust	IIRC there's a new shader type in OpenGL that can add polys on the fly - maybe do dynamic poly creation on the surface and shift based on a heightma or some such :P
	Yuzuru	normal map?
	Ima Mechanique	I gotta run out before local shop closes. bye all
14:28	Cron Stardust	correct: curren;ty the vertices don't move (and there's not enough of them to make it worth it ATM)
	Kraptacular Kat	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXKZL8GfVmg
		something almost like this
14:29	Cron Stardust	yeppers
14:30		that's perfect. (Just saw the put-a-cube int it section)
	Kraptacular Kat	perfect for that vertical movement
	Oz Linden	that's very cool
	Cron Stardust	that applied dynamically to the water would be a nice effect for beach and water operations.
14:31	Kraptacular Kat	just need it to scroll
	Cron Stardust	then (later) we could add obect-interaction to the shader (I think) so that object cause ripples and splashes based on velocity >D
	Kraptacular Kat	and overlay it with normal mapping for the water texture and tere you go
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	looks similer to bump map displacement in DX
	Kraptacular Kat	kick ass water
14:32	Oz Linden	(and then he'll want the waves to reflect and refract....) :-)
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	lol
	Cron Stardust	later!, but maybe :P
	Oz Linden	go for it Cron
		if you can implement it....
	Kraptacular Kat	thats why you overlay it with normal mapping that already is used for the water
	Tonya Souther	but if you build a surfboard, I'm going to get nervous.
14:33	Cron Stardust	so far I've not been able to pull myself into OpenGL 3.0 land in simple tests... WE'll see. :P
14:34	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	video is to blury to read the bbuild floater
	Kraptacular Kat	need to view it at a higher setting
14:35	Oz Linden	I've got to wrap up, folks.... things to do.... thanks for coming, and for the nice ambitions....
	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks	tc oz
		thx for the info