Pathfinding in Second Life/2012-06-07

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Transcript for Thursday June 7, 2012

[16:03] Lorca Linden hello everyone!
[16:03] Motor Loon ey Lorca
[16:03] Horatio whispers: Greeting Jira .
[16:03] And all I got was this lousy DN howdy lorca
[16:03] Rex Cronon hello everybody
[16:03] Motor Loon so VKC going all PF when it's out?
[16:03] Lorca Linden who build horatio?
[16:03] Rex Cronon did this sim just get back online?
[16:04] Jonathan Yap I think I crashed it this morning
[16:04] Horatio whispers: Noticed Rex
[16:04] Sandry Logan we're looking at it Motor
[16:04] Motor Loon /me nods
[16:04] Lorca Linden we've had a few bugs on the aditi build
[16:04] Lorca Linden so, let's start with show and tell
[16:04] Mæstro Linden it was crashing earlier today in the old version
[16:04] Horatio whispers: Greeting Tiberious .
[16:05] Lorca Linden any other PF objects to show off?
[16:05] Lorca Linden I like horatio
[16:05] Sandry Logan horatio greet lorca
[16:05] Motor Loon seems to run pretty good
[16:05] Blue Alloy awww... cute :3
[16:05] Rex Cronon i heard that somebody was making an xxx game
[16:06] Sandry Logan horatio come sit
[16:06] Nal wow nice
[16:06] Sandry Logan he's probably a bit quick motor
[16:06] Motor Loon In this case, I think quick is good
[16:06] Rex Cronon no idea lorca
[16:06] Blue Alloy ...I've never seen pathfinding in action before, so this is new to me
[16:06] Nal not the penises... horatio
[16:07] Sandry Logan horatio explore 30
[16:07] Motor Loon showing off the potential compared to the "oldschool way of doing it"
[16:07] Rex Cronon that clab is faster than the energizer bunny:)
[16:07] Rex Cronon that club*
[16:07] Blue Alloy under the old school, he'd be shoving everyone around
[16:07] Sandry Logan he gets a bit confused when there are a lot of avatars or dynamic objets close by
[16:07] Rex Cronon cub*
[16:08] Killer whispers: Greeting Rex .
[16:08] Mæstro Linden Killer greet Lorca
[16:08] Lorca Linden lots of avatars in a tight space can be tricky for FP objects sometimes, due to collision sizes
[16:08] Rex Cronon hi killer
[16:08] Sandry Logan heya Blue, indeed he would
[16:08] Motor Loon killer is the old VKC without PF
[16:08] Killer whispers: Greeting Jonathan .
[16:09] Lorca Linden horatio runs circles around killer ;)
[16:09] Killer whispers: Greeting TankMaster .
[16:09] Motor Loon it does °͜°
[16:09] Blue Alloy all we'd need is the ability to make objects that use rigged meshes and gain a skeleton... >:3
[16:09] Lorca Linden thanks for showing him off
[16:09] Lorca Linden lol, blue
[16:09] Sandry Logan horatio come sit passive
[16:09] Lorca Linden maybe down the road
[16:09] Jonathan Yap Lorca, did you get a chance to look at pathbug-142? (Add ability to better control character height above terrain) I cannot get my rat to run around on the ground
[16:09] Jira Helper [#PATHBUG-142] Add ability to better control character height above terrain
[16:10] Blue Alloy kinda like a bot without needing a connection and another client running :3
[16:10] Lorca Linden maestro : have you had a chance to look into that yet *Lorca shamelessly passes the buck *
[16:10] Lorca Linden ?
[16:10] Mæstro Linden -142?
[16:10] Lorca Linden yup
[16:11] Mæstro Linden I think it's a matter of adjusting the character height
[16:11] Mæstro Linden and possibly moving the root prim relative to the rest of the linkset
[16:11] Rex Cronon lets say i want to make a hamster that runs through a 3d pipe maze. what is the min diameter that i can use?
[16:11] And all I got was this lousy DN hover rat!
[16:11] Jonathan Yap I adjusted it as much as the script will allow.
[16:11] Motor Loon depends on the size of the hamster ,-)
[16:11] Mæstro Linden CHARACTER_RADIUS ranges from 0.1 to 5.0.
[16:12] Killer whispers: Greeting Sandry .
[16:12] Motor Loon Attack of the giant killer hamsters from mars
[16:12] Jonathan Yap character_length can be 0? The docs say otherwise
[16:12] Blue Alloy does horatio respond to anyone?
[16:12] Mæstro Linden hm, is the wiki wrong? looks like you're radius is 25% larger than the documented minimum
[16:12] Rex Cronon i want to make find the cheese:0
[16:12] Rex Cronon :)
[16:12] Motor Loon Horatio come sit
[16:12] Motor Loon looks like it
[16:13] Jonathan Yap wiki says 2 * length + 0.1
[16:13] Mæstro Linden and anyway, you should probably just link the rat so that the root prim is higher, then the rest of it will be closer to the ground (the character is always centered around the root prim's cetner)
[16:13] Lorca Linden so I'd like to open the floor for viewer questions
[16:13] Lorca Linden how many of you have played around with the pathfinding project viewer?
[16:13] Rex Cronon sadly i can't have a 3d pipe maze:(
[16:13] Jonathan Yap Thank you (again) maestro
[16:13] Mæstro Linden no, I think it's that minimum effective length is 2*radius+0.1
[16:14] Sandry Logan yes, i've been unsing it pretty much all the time
[16:14] Nal Its been awhile but I was using it.
[16:14] Mæstro Linden I'd recommend just using that root prim offset method though
[16:14] Lorca Linden usually this UG has been more focused on the server side, but if you have any questions or feedback about the viewer
[16:14] Jonathan Yap One thing I really like is the Teleport To option
[16:14] Lorca Linden Stinson is the expert since he mostly built it ;)
[16:14] Falcon Linden Hey folks
[16:14] MaV (matu) what was the link to the latest version?
[16:15] Blue Alloy I haven't yet. Might be interesting to see what it can do
[16:15] Rex Cronon hi falcon
[16:15] Stinson Linden one sec, matu.
[16:15] Sandry Logan yes, what jonanthan said, that's very useful when sorting out the linksets all over a region
[16:15] Second Life Blue Alloy (tiberious.neruda) is now known as Tiberious Neruda.
[16:15] Lorca Linden Jonathan and Sandry : have you found the PF viewer tools to have a good workflow for retrofitting regions for pathfinding?
[16:15] Stinson Linden @matu,
[16:15] MaV (matu) thanks :)
[16:15] Jonathan Yap Lorca, I don't own a region, so cannot say
[16:16] Lorca Linden fair enough
[16:16] Tiberious Neruda are pathfinding objects limited to ground-based movement?
[16:16] Falcon Linden yes
[16:16] Lorca Linden I'm not going to give specific dates, but I can say that we intend to be in RC soon, so there is not much time left to give actionable feedback on the UI / UX front
[16:16] Sandry Logan i thought so Lorca. I mean, a job like that is always going to be a bit of a grind, but i found it was perfectly workable
[16:17] Rex Cronon i think that when u select an object, the build window should have a new tab with all the properties regarding pathfinding
[16:17] Lorca Linden that's good to know, thanks sandry
[16:17] Falcon Linden Some day it might be possible to provide aerial pathfinding, but issues like banking (should characters bank? how?), dynamic updating of the nav volumes, and takeoff/landing make it hard
[16:17] And all I got was this lousy DN how is the physics stub coming along?
[16:17] Falcon Linden Rex Cronon: that's harder than you'd think. instead, we'll provide a right-click option to open selected in linksets/characters floater as appropriate
[16:18] Jonathan Yap Rex, that poor build floater is so overloaded already, too
[16:18] Rex Cronon eventually u will have to integrate it with the build window
[16:18] Falcon Linden tankmaster: the stub? That's done, at least in principle, but I don't know much about the TPV release process for it.
[16:18] Falcon Linden Rex: oh yeah?
[16:18] Sandry Logan something like that would definitely be useful falcon, to save searching in the linkset window
[16:18] And all I got was this lousy DN ok
[16:18] Falcon Linden sandry: yep, we finalized that question today
[16:19] Rex Cronon don't u think that everything should be in one place? making an easier to use gui:)
[16:19] Falcon Linden we also think that in german you shouldn't have to wait for the names of the tabs to scroll by
[16:19] Lorca Linden lol
[16:19] Falcon Linden and that the build panel shouldn't take up the entire viewport
[16:20] Falcon Linden but we can't have everything we'd like, just like you're not gettin' rainbows or ponies
[16:20] TriJin Bade Amen to that
[16:20] Nal Build panel is full now... a menu and right-click access may be a button in the Build panel may have to do.
[16:20] Motor Loon but... I WANT that pony
[16:20] Motor Loon /me holds breath and stomps foot
[16:21] Rex Cronon i just the gold at the end of the rainbow:)
[16:21] Lorca Linden wherever possible, we've tried to streamline the pathfinding build floater. Currently, it's actually half the size compared to 4 months ago
[16:21] Rex Cronon as long as this is not the final version
[16:22] Lorca Linden no, the UI is not final yet
[16:22] TriJin Bade It needs shortening. Even on a 1900+ resolution, when I'm setting a large build, it's a pain to keep resizing it just for the viewport
[16:22] TriJin Bade Would be even better if you could pop the floaters out onto a second monitor.. oh heaven
[16:22] Falcon Linden trijin: ponies!
[16:23] TriJin Bade /me runs screaming!!!!
[16:23] Rex Cronon no thanks. they have an attitude problem:)
[16:23] TriJin Bade Mind you, I have a linden dark pony guarding my linden home lol
[16:24] Motor Loon but yeah generally when it comes to UI - smaller is better
[16:24] TriJin Bade Even by setting the PF type on the right click on an object would help
[16:26] TriJin Bade /me gives Maestro a neck brace
[16:26] Rex Cronon might be better to have a tree viewe that shows what objects in the sim r using PF and which r not
[16:26] Falcon Linden rex: you can do that with the filters in the linksets floater
[16:26] Lorca Linden any other UI / build floater questions? If not, Stinson you are welcome to leave
[16:26] TriJin Bade I quite like the filters. They work well for me
[16:26] Rex Cronon a tree with 15000 leaves:)
[16:26] any1 Gynoid <-- likes the PF tools usuability fwiw... great job on that!
[16:26] Lorca Linden thanks any1!
[16:27] Lorca Linden alright then, thanks Stinson
[16:27] Lorca Linden server side questions then?
[16:27] Stinson Linden later all
[16:27] TriJin Bade I'm very pleased with the region performance. Kudos to that. Things are working well...:)
[16:27] Rex Cronon tc stinson
[16:28] Falcon Linden thanks :)
[16:28] Falcon Linden I do have one brief announcement
[16:28] Falcon Linden in the next deploy, we'll be providing a new method, llGetStaticPath(vector start, vector end, float radius, list options)
[16:28] any1 Gynoid / noticed.... changes in the local PF motions... had to reduce PF velocities by 3X or 4X recently... what's up with that?
[16:28] TriJin Bade There is a slight problem sometimes with the "flying physical objects" doing their superman impression... but I guess that's to do with server to viewer interpolation
[16:28] Falcon Linden trijin: flying physical objects?
[16:28] Rex Cronon what is the max size of the list returned?
[16:29] Falcon Linden unspecified :)
[16:29] Rex Cronon 1GB:)?
[16:29] TriJin Bade Sometimes the character suddenly flies in a straight line.. obviously waiting for the next server tick
[16:29] any1 Gynoid <-- I see that constantly
[16:29] Falcon Linden well, flying characters aren't supported
[16:30] TriJin Bade my ping is usually about 150 but see it more with characters than other phys objects
[16:30] Falcon Linden anyhow, llGetStaticPath will return a list of waypoints between 'start' and 'end' through which a character of effective radius 'radius' can pass
[16:30] TriJin Bade Awesome
[16:30] Falcon Linden the options list only accepts CHARACTER_TYPE right now
[16:30] Hyper no, regular characters fly past
[16:30] Falcon Linden also, this is very important
[16:30] Rex Cronon i would rather like it, if things would stop moving if connection is lost rather than floating to infinity
[16:31] Falcon Linden llGetStaticPath will NOT take into account any object not marked as static
[16:31] Falcon Linden rex: I'd rather we had client side prediction and it just did the right thing.
[16:31] any1 Gynoid this is the "weird thing" problem Falcon.. and Lindens must fix it
[16:32] Falcon Linden I envision three main uses for llGetStaticPath
[16:32] Motor Loon must is a strong word °͜°
[16:32] Rex Cronon so we could mod this list and give it back to the path finding object?
[16:32] TriJin Bade Is there a PAUSE option in the path list? if so, can you set a duration of the pause?
[16:33] Falcon Linden the function just returns a list of points, it does no motion
[16:33] TriJin Bade Gotcha
[16:33] Falcon Linden (1) in attachments in a fully pathfinding region (where everything important has been marked walkable/obstacle)
[16:33] TriJin Bade <--- mind was on something else.. spanks self
[16:33] Falcon Linden (2) As a fallback method for pathfinding objects in pathfinding-disabled regions
[16:34] Falcon Linden (yes, it will work in pathfinding-disabled regions)
[16:34] Falcon Linden (3) For use with llSetKeyframedMotion to determine waypoints
[16:34] Mæstro Linden Falcon, I guess it would be correct to say that the list of points should roughly match what the viewer's "Test Path" shows
[16:34] Falcon Linden well said, maestro
[16:34] Mæstro Linden actually, that's probably how I'll test it..
[16:35] TriJin Bade If the region isn't PF enabled, what character width would it use?
[16:35] Falcon Linden it's a floating point parameter.
[16:35] Falcon Linden you tell it what character width to use, it doesn't infer it
[16:35] Falcon Linden err, character radius
[16:35] TriJin Bade perfect
[16:35] Falcon Linden also, your start and end points must be within a character radius of the navmesh
[16:36] Mæstro Linden so you may want to prefix it with llGetClosestNavPoint
[16:36] Falcon Linden ooo, one more detail about the list returns
[16:36] Falcon Linden returned*
[16:36] Falcon Linden i.e., llGetClosestNavPoint(start, [GCNP_RADIUS, radius]) must return a hit. So if your radius is small, you should use llGetClosestPoint first with a bigger search radius to find a better start/end
[16:37] Falcon Linden the last element will either be 0 if the path is good or it will match a PU_FAILURE_... constant ( in which case the list will be size 1)
[16:37] TriJin Bade so the list will always be >=1
[16:38] Motor Loon thats pretty neat
[16:38] Falcon Linden yes
[16:39] TriJin Bade I assume the max would be whatever memory there is
[16:39] Falcon Linden yes
[16:39] Falcon Linden if it turns out to return too many points, we can always add a limit option
[16:39] TriJin Bade A trim cap would be perfect
[16:40] Falcon Linden if we really need it. We're pretty busy trying to get this out :)
[16:40] TriJin Bade Of course :)
[16:40] TriJin Bade Baby Steps
[16:41] Lorca Linden well then, any other questions or neat PF creatures to show us?
[16:41] Rex Cronon sound like pretty soon we might be playing something similar to WOW in sl:) with quests too:)
[16:41] TriJin Bade I'm working on a few but will defer presentation until later :P
[16:42] Lorca Linden next week!
[16:42] TriJin Bade yup :P
[16:42] any1 Gynoid whoo hoo! great job Lindens! PF rocks!
[16:42] Falcon Linden rex: just need animation :)
[16:43] Lorca Linden and without a doubt, Rex, pathfinding plus the tools coming out of Linden Realms will be a big step up for the gaming community in SL (though of course these features are useful elsewhere as well)
[16:43] TriJin Bade I'm excited about it. Especially the HUD and other tools
[16:43] any1 Gynoid <-- teaching how to animate... almost got it perfected... the teaching techniques... we can make ppls true believers in 1 hour.. np at all
[16:43] Nal ...I still can't rez things here and have to build from scratch each time... SVC-7727
[16:43] Jira Helper [#SVC-7727] Aditi grid problem. After changing my password to cause my inventory on Aditi to update, my inventory no longer saves changes made to it from session to session.
[16:43] And all I got was this lousy DN itll be interesting to see what people come up with
[16:43] Rex Cronon things might get interesting around here:)
[16:44] Falcon Linden nal: may be able to fix it, but it will definitely wipe all your inv here
[16:44] Lorca Linden that's awesome an1! I'm very happy you are helping spread the word that pathfinding is not so evil as some have made it out to be ;)
[16:44] Nal That is ok... since I changeed pw I haven't been able to save anything I build here.
[16:45] Lorca Linden and just as a reminder, you all are welcome to ping hyper for questions relating to pathfinding or to point residents who want help to her as a resource
[16:45] any1 Gynoid Lorca.. it would be awesome if we had a list of PF sandboxes to share... I would give it out to all my students...
[16:45] Lorca Linden she is the ambassador of PF
[16:45] Hyper /me waves
[16:45] Falcon Linden Lorca: can you get that list to any1?
[16:45] Lorca Linden and quite knoweldgable abou thow to help retrofit builds for pathfinding
[16:45] TriJin Bade /me salutes
[16:45] Mæstro Linden any1: the snack sandbox regions are fairly accessible sandboxes
[16:45] Mæstro Linden they're totally public though
[16:46] Lorca Linden any1 : I will add that to the main pathfinding wiki. Also we are going to do one more migration of regions to the PF beta channel prior to RC
[16:46] Lorca Linden so if your students have a region and want it on pathfinding
[16:46] Lorca Linden tell them to email
[16:47] any1 Gynoid ohhh great!!! I'll announce that big time!
[16:47] Lorca Linden likely sometime next week, so tell them to hurry ;)
[16:47] Lorca Linden we also plan to move more of the public sandboxes onto the PF channel next week on agni
[16:48] Hyper the premium sandboxes are on PF now
[16:48] Hyper the ones by Linden Homes
[16:48] Hyper FYI
[16:48] Lorca Linden yup, we are going to be moving some non premium sandboxes to PF as well next week
[16:49] TriJin Bade I guess a PF character would make a great premium gift to showcase the feature
[16:49] Lorca Linden in the plans trijin
[16:49] Lorca Linden agreed on that
[16:49] TriJin Bade /me zips it :P
[16:49] Lorca Linden any other questions? if not I'm going to call it 10 min early
[16:49] Motor Loon yeah give them a flesh eating zombie that'll hunt them around their linden home lol
[16:49] Hyper a little LH puppy
[16:50] TriJin Bade Already have plenty of those on my place lol
[16:50] any1 Gynoid too easy Motor!... hee hee
[16:50] Lorca Linden alright then, that's it for this week
[16:50] Lorca Linden thank you all for coming
[16:50] Sandry Logan falcon/maestro, did either of you have a chance to look at PATHBUG-141
[16:50] Jira Helper [#PATHBUG-141] Flag for llNavigateTo to allow character to get right onto (or very close to) the target position
[16:50] Rex Cronon tc everybody
[16:50] TriJin Bade Thanks guys. As always, keep rockin
[16:50] Lorca Linden see you next week!
[16:50] MaV (matu) thanks!
[16:50] Lorca Linden and please bring something for show and tell
[16:50] Lorca Linden if you have nifty PF critters
[16:50] TriJin Bade :P
[16:50] Rex Cronon and have a nice day. and keep up the good work lindens:)
[16:51] Lorca Linden /me vanishes in a puff of smoke