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See the accompanying blog post

Text transcript

[15:09] Kate Linden: Today we will introduce three topics which are beneficial whether you are new to Second Life or are teaching others.
[15:09] Ranos Brumer: :P
[15:09] Silena Bleac: Hey! Torley
[15:09] Torley Linden: internal meeting was running late, and guess what? i was making a video of them, ha ha!
[15:09] Kate Linden: The three key topics we haven chosen for today are Groups, Content Creation as well as Educational Resources and how they relate.
[15:09] Silena Bleac: cool
[15:09] Kate Linden: This is a casual format and we will introduce a topic and then take questions.
[15:09] Torley Linden: it's lovely to see each and all of you here today... rock on...
[15:09] Kate Linden: First I would like to introduce our panel.
[15:09] Fleep Tuque smiles.
[15:09] Fleep Tuque: You have to know what the first question about groups will be. :)
[15:10] Kate Linden: Please welcome Dimitrio Lewis, who has graciously agreed to help us field Q&A on these topics.
[15:10] Viajero Pugilist: mute or 25?
[15:10] Dimitrio Lewis waves
[15:10] Fleep Tuque laughs.
[15:10] Malburns Writer: can't guess Fleep
[15:10] Fleep Tuque shuts up.
[15:10] Crap Mariner ponders... is Journey really Journey without Steve Perry?
[15:10] Kate Linden: Jeremy Linden who will be discussing content creation.
[15:10] Dain Bellic: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[15:10] Fleep Tuque APPLAUDS!!!
[15:10] Jeremy Linden grins and waves.
[15:10] Torley Linden: *clapclapclap*
[15:10] Kate Linden: Torley Linde, who needs no introduction, will be discussion Educational Resources.
[15:10] Dain Bellic: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[15:10] Dain Bellic: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[15:10] Dain Bellic: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[15:10] Dain Bellic: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[15:10] Dain Bellic: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[15:10] Dain Bellic: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[15:10] Dain Bellic: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[15:11] Dain Bellic: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[15:11] Dain Bellic: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[15:11] Ranos Brumer: Please don't spam Daine
[15:11] Ranos Brumer: Dain*
[15:11] Kate Linden: I chose the topic of Groups because there are two elements regarding groups that make up a lot of the questions we receive in support. Disbanded Groups and group contributions and how they relate to tier levels.
[15:11] Viajero Pugilist: Dain, could you chill?
[15:11] Kate Linden: If I were to write a song about groups, I'd select Data Linden's phrase and title it "One Person Is Not A Group"
[15:11] Kate Linden: (Any suggestions for a mnemonic jingle are welcomed.)
[15:12] Jeremy Linden: OPINAG
[15:12] Kate Linden: As that title indicates, a group requires at least two members.
[15:12] Kate Linden: Groups with fewer than two members will be disbanded after 48 hours.
[15:12] Torley Linden: (sorry i can't reply to IMs right now, focusing on what's happening inworld! :) )
[15:12] Kate Linden: If a group is disbanded, the land it owns goes to Governor Linden to be auctioned off.
[15:12] Kate Linden: To preserve the value of your group's land, you should either sell it or reclaim it before disbanding the group.
[15:13] Kate Linden: There are opportunities for the original owner to be able to reclaim land, which is done on a case by case basis. However, by sharing the knowledge that might prevent groups from disbanding, we hope to lessen the need to make this request.
[15:13] Kate Linden: A group's undistributed L$ are perpetually frozen after a group is disbanded, unless the Founder is active and requests a one-time payout. That Payout is made directly to the Founder to disburse at will.
[15:13] Kate Linden: Make sure that group members who expect to get Linden Dollars from the group (members who have the ability Pay group liabilities and receive group dividends enabled in at least one of their roles) receive their final payments before leaving the group.
[15:13] Kate Linden: Keeping track of your group membership is important and will lead to a positive experience.
[15:14] Kate Linden: On the topic of group land and as a segue into contributions, groups can also unify projects through group-owned land.
[15:14] Kate Linden: Quoting from our Knowledge Base, "Group-owned land is always held collectively by a group, not by any one group member. In order for the group to own land, its members must submit land contributions, which are donations that members make from their own personal land allowance. The group can own a total amount of land whose size in square meters equals 110% or less of the sum of all group contributions"
[15:14] Kate Linden: This is important for new residents to understand: Group contributions count as part of your peak usage and tier level.
[15:15] Kate Linden: When taking ownership of land from a group, remove your contributions first, then take ownership of the land to keep your tier level the same.
[15:15] Kate Linden: Understanding these two points can keep your group running smoothly and effortlessly.
[15:15] Kate Linden: I'd like to open to discussion and questions on these two points.
[15:16] Jeremy Linden: The two points being "one personis not a group" and "group land ownership"?
[15:16] blogHUD Messenger: Your image post has arrived at []: see
[15:16] Core Shelman: how can i tell if groups are taking money from me?
[15:16] Crap Mariner shrugs... technically one person with multiple accounts can be a group.
[15:16] Kate Linden: Disbanded groups and contributions in relationship to tier
[15:17] Kate Linden: Are there questions about groups in general?
[15:17] Ranos Brumer: you just had one
[15:17] Torley Linden: and related to that Core, it sounds like you're referring to L$ group liabilities... i have a recent video tutorial that shows you how to check and links to the Knowledge Base article too!
[15:17] Core Shelman: thans will check it out
[15:17] Ranos Brumer: oh nvm
[15:17] Jeremy Linden: Core, if you check your transaction logs on the Second Life website (, you may occasionally see charges listed as "group liability", which indicate charges coming from a group.
[15:17] Core Shelman: thanks
[15:18] Kate Linden: Our next topic, if there are no questions, is content creation.
[15:18] Fleep Tuque: Groups in general, can we expect to see an increase in the 25 group limit?
[15:18] Fleep Tuque: Is there any sort of timeline?
[15:18] Torley Linden: hahaha i knew it, infact, i was asked that question at my Office Hour earlier today, Fleep!
[15:18] WiLLuMPJuH Footman assumes the previous subject was related to landowners and , for instance, tennants ?
[15:18] Torley Linden: there are at least couple of preceding problems which must be solved first...
[15:18] Fleep Tuque: (Sorry couldn't resist, as someone who works both professionally and personally in SL, it's my single #1 drive me crazy thing.)
[15:19] Torley Linden: the first one being, scalability of group communication systems... there are bugs with them that must be fixed, and i'm not referring to wee little ones, but big, complex ones with LOTS of interdepencies
[15:19] Torley Linden: if you go to and search for "groups" they'll show up
[15:19] Torley Linden: before we want to add more # of groups, it makes sense to make group communication work more *reliably*
[15:19] Crap Mariner: If people had the ability to mute or opt-out permanently of group IMs, the comms traffic load concern would be reduced, yes?
[15:20] Fleep Tuque nods.
[15:20] Malburns Writer: right now i would love to selectively MUTE groups IMs - lol
[15:20] Torley Linden: Crap, yes, that's a great example of an interdependency... and that would need some good design (it's been a great idea for a long time)
[15:20] Crap Mariner looks forward to it
[15:20] Fleep Tuque: I know it's something of an intractable problem with no easy fix, just wondered if it's still a priority for LL.
[15:20] Torley Linden: it sounds like a simple idea, "mute group IMs", but as you'll also see if you look on the Issue Tracker, there are some non-trivial complications
[15:20] Torley Linden: Fleep, it's a general priority for us to enable social networking and communication YES :)
[15:20] Fleep Tuque: Thanks. :)
[15:20] Torley Linden: and the second thing i'd like to mention is, in many cases, Roles can be used as sub-groups within a group
[15:20] Jeep Tenk: but its a much needed feature
[15:21] Fleep Tuque: nod yes we use Roles to the max
[15:21] Torley Linden: this isn't the most obvious, but it's definitely something that needs to be made clear: in a variety of instances, instead of making a new group, you can use a Role...
[15:21] Torley Linden: i'm glad that you already ruled that out Fleep :)
[15:21] Fleep Tuque: alas when you work with lots of different landowing groups, that doesn't help much.
[15:21] Torley Linden: just checkin' ;)
[15:21] Torley Linden: *nods*
[15:21] Torley Linden: i remember when we only had 10 groups max., and then 15...
[15:21] Torley Linden: and then 25!
[15:21] Fleep Tuque nods.
[15:21] Dimitrio Lewis: ugh I remember 10 :)
[15:21] Torley Linden: =) OK... Kate, what's up next? :D
[15:22] Jeremy Linden: Back when we were savages, living with only the barest of essentials.
[15:22] Fleep Tuque giggles.
[15:22] Ranos Brumer: Before Flexi prims?
[15:22] Kate Linden: The Wonderful world of content creation.
[15:22] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: there was an SL for MS-DOS ? :S
[15:22] Jeffbot lite bracelet:
[15:22] Movies1963 Beck: we need 250 groups
[15:22] Jeremy Linden: Aha! I think content creation is me...
[15:22] Torley Linden: *wiggles my flippers* oh gosh Ranos i remember being involved in the initial design of flexiprims... that was an ADVENTURE... some of the preliminary sketches and prototypes, wild.
[15:22] Torley Linden: w00t Jeremy!
[15:22] Kate Linden: Over to you Jeremy
[15:23] Ranos Brumer laughs
[15:23] User not online - inventory has been saved.
[15:23] Jeremy Linden: I don't have a fancy presentation, but I would love to answer questions you guys may have about content creation; I have experience with prim modeling, scripting, and a little texturing and animation. I know only a tiny bit about what happens behind the scenes, but I'll try my best to answer those questions as well.
[15:24] Kate Linden: How many people here are content creators?
[15:24] Sagittar Spengler: :)
[15:24] Jeremy Linden: No question is too small... I'm sure some of you in the audience know more than me, but sometimes it just takes a little enlightenment to get people *started* in content creation.
[15:24] Ranos Brumer: I dable.
[15:24] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: How come policy and awareness to globalisation does not restrict content creation ?
[15:24] Torley Linden: i love that word, "enlightenment" ;D indulge your curiosities, folks!
[15:24] WiLLuMPJuH Footman asked a q..
[15:24] Crap Mariner raises hand... building, podcasting, machinima, web 2.0 mayhem
[15:24] Jeremy Linden: WiLLuMPJuH, can you elaborate on that?
[15:25] Perefim Cao raises hand
[15:25] Jeep Tenk: how exactly do you define 'Content creation' - or limit the field?
[15:25] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: Free contenct creation is open to everybody now
[15:25] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: which ofc is hardly to constrain when it comes to DMCA and international copyright laws
[15:25] Jeremy Linden: Ah, I'm using "content creation" to mean anything inworld... objects, textures, animations, sounds, scripts, etc...
[15:25] Jeep Tenk: is it anything an av creates?
[15:25] Jeep Tenk: ok
[15:26] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: well.. im going for the textures here..
[15:26] Perefim Cao: Honestly isn't anyone here in sl... kinda a content creator in their own right?
[15:26] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: like rockband t-shirt .. copyrighted pictures.. anything that is not in the public domain but can be googled
[15:26] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: will it not get contenct creators in trouble, i mean ?
[15:26] Jeremy Linden: Indeed, Perefim. Though I'm often surprised to find that people think building a prim is more complex than it really is.
[15:26] Crap Mariner: animations would certainly be easier to construct and bugtest with some kind of in-world/viewer based system.
[15:27] Ranos Brumer: Unfortuntately Willumphjuh thats an issue thats still up in the air no matter what medium your on
[15:27] Ranos Brumer: Its a big problem in the CGI industry.
[15:27] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: i know.. but it's so 'easy' do do in here..
[15:27] Perefim Cao: lawls jeremy... some people I think are intimidated by the concept of building a virtual world
[15:27] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: *to do .. sorry
[15:27] Jeremy Linden: WiLL, I'm afraid I don't know much about the legal or copyright side of things, but you bring up a good point.
[15:28] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: ok .. glad to have mentioned it
[15:28] Ranos Brumer: I know Lockheed has been on a big push to stop 3d modelers form making models of their aircraft designs
[15:28] Jeremy Linden: I do know we're dedicating more resources to tracking DMCA requests, and we are definitely acting on them.
[15:28] Fleep Tuque: Q: Anything in the works to make collaborative building and permission sharing less cumbersome? Or to incorporate Creative Commons licensing as a permissions option in the edit screen?
[15:28] Torley Linden: well, philosophically, some of this is very fascinating in that... are any of you familiar with Alvin and Heidi Toffler? they're among the world's greatest futurists. they coined the term "prosumer" to refer to an emerging wave of people who didn't consider themselves necessarily "professional", but create stuff. and it seemed ridiculous back then, but Second Life epitomizes how true that's become.
[15:29] Perefim Cao: I can appreciate replica's of rl pop items and culture.. but I think if a develoepr is worried about certain violations of licenses and such... don't you think maybe they should try towards more orignal concepts instead of so much intentional copies of rl products, within reason of course?
[15:29] Jeep Tenk: what do you mean by DMCA?
[15:29] Jeep Tenk: all these abbreviations flying about :-s
[15:29] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: yeah.. but what if the selling rock t-shirt enthousiast is confronted by it's band ?
[15:29] Ranos Brumer: Thats what I try to do Perefim
[15:29] Jeremy Linden: Fleep, I talked a little bit with Zero today... I think we want to do *something* with the permissions system, but I don't know much more than that.
[15:29] Torley Linden: i'm personally a BIG fan of Creative Commons simplicity; i'd have to side with Ryuichi Sakamoto, Joi Ito, and others in finding traditional copyright law antiquated for a variety of usages (doesn't mean they're obsolete, just too restrictive).
[15:29] Jeremy Linden: Heh. You guys are asking all the hard questions :-)_
[15:30] Fleep Tuque: Jeremy, student projects are a NIGHTMARE to coordinate with current permissions systems, collaborative work is very very hard. Anything that can help with that would be much appreciated by educators.
[15:30] Core Shelman: any reccommendations on books for content creation?
[15:30] Perefim Cao: hard questions are what we face every day jeremy
[15:30] Ranos Brumer: Well whats your opinion on the recent supreme court ruling
[15:30] Torley Linden: we don't have any formal projects to include CC in Second Life via system permissions -- but i can totally sympathize with the complexities of the current way things work.
[15:30] Torley Linden: (i speak currently; that's subject to change)
[15:30] Torley Linden: hey Mia :) just noticed ya there
[15:31] Fleep Tuque: (Particularly permissions nested in objects within objects, etc, but I'm sure you know that)
[15:31] Jeremy Linden: Jeep, DMCA stands for "digital millenium copyright act". It's meant to protect people when their work has been copied online.
[15:31] Kate Linden: Welcome Mia
[15:31] Mia Linden: ty for having me!
[15:31] Dimitrio Lewis: hi Mia :)
[15:31] Jeep Tenk: is it international or just US?
[15:31] Jeremy Linden: Noted, Fleep!
[15:31] Mia Linden: Hello everyone!
[15:31] Fleep Tuque: Hi Mia, welcome!
[15:31] Mia Linden: sorry for sitting on your lap Jeremy i didn't have my glasses on!
[15:32] Mia Linden: hello Fleep!
[15:32] Jeremy Linden: Jeep, I'm pretty sure anyone can file a DMCA for content inside Second life.
[15:32] Torley Linden: Core, there've been a few published (if you search but i haven't read them... if you haven't seen our video tutorials ( ) you may find them to be of enjoyable use... i eventually hope to do a "Joy of Building" series
[15:32] Jeremy Linden: No worries, Mia. I don't think any of your gears got me.
[15:32] Core Shelman: thanks torley
[15:32] Jeep Tenk: I c - thx
[15:32] Perefim Cao: noticed though when I have had issues with people stealing work from me on a few occasions int he past that they claimed since the model was only a cetain % of likeness that they weren't violatingin anythig but if any of you have seen my work you can definatley see a certain style and structure, and when copied it shows obviously even if you take a rusty axe and colour it pink
[15:32] Torley Linden: you're welcome Core
[15:32] Crap Mariner raises an eyebrow at the mention of gears.
[15:33] Perefim Cao: how does that necessarily work...?
[15:33] Jeremy Linden: Again, I'm not a legal expert. I think such cases are handled on a case-by-case basis.
[15:33] Torley Linden: related to DMCA, our Support Staff has been ramping up responsiveness to claims and such -- as for trickier legal questions, i'd consult an attorney. *nods at Jeremy*
[15:33] Torley Linden: if you need legal advice, get a lawyer. :)
[15:34] Perefim Cao: But would be have to take an entity to court every time linden labs refused to get involved ina matter that involves content theft?
[15:34] Ranos Brumer: excuse me
[15:34] Ranos Brumer: * Digital Models Not Subject To Copyright*

( "The US Court of Appeals for the Tenth
Circuit has affirmed (PDF) a ruling that a plain, unadorned wireframe
model of a Toyota vehicle is not a creative expression protected under
copyright law. The court analogized the wire-frame models to
photographs: the owner of an object does not have a copyright in all
images of the object, but a photographer may have a limited copyright
over a particular image based on artistic choices such as costumery,
lighting, posing, etc. Thus, the modelers could only copyright any
'incremental contribution' they made to Toyota's vehicles; in the case
of plain models, there was nothing new to protect. This could be a
two-edged sword — companies that produce goods may not be able to stop
modelers from imaging those products, but modelers may not be able to
prevent others from copying their work."
[15:34] Perefim Cao: that could be very costly
[15:34] jokay Wollongong: Most Copyright Associations have a service for artists/digital content makers... very good resources - the aus copyright council is free.. not so sure about US ;)
[15:34] Ranos Brumer: sorry for the large message
[15:34] Jeep Tenk: yes Perefim - in europe just a tiny portion of the content have to be modified, for it to count as an original creation
[15:34] Perefim Cao: oh crap my message got swallowed
[15:35] Torley Linden: Perefim, to clarify: it's not that we *don't* get involved, it's that we need legal precedent and basis, as it details @
[15:35] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: it's no use to paste large text now , no
[15:35] Ranos Brumer: I appologize for that, didn't realize it would take up so much space
[15:35] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: well.. the rub here is ..
[15:35] Perefim Cao: So how do developers protect themselves from tiny mods being counted as roginals without having to duke it out in a court room which as everyone knows is costly
[15:35] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: all my attorney needs to say.. the client provides 'Image --> Upload'
[15:36] Jeep Tenk: there is currently no way Perfim
[15:36] Crap Mariner kicks about 25 DCMAs a day to Legal at the absurdly large hosting dayjob.
[15:36] Perefim Cao: :(
[15:36] xyryx Simca: Jeremy: what do you think would enhance the residents' in world experience re: content creation?
[15:36] Kate Linden: great question xryx
[15:37] Jeremy Linden: xyryx, I think we've had a few great suggestions here today already: Improved and simplified permissions, for one.
[15:37] blogHUD Messenger: Your image post has arrived at []: see
[15:38] Perefim Cao: I had another question sorry I am full of them... but is there any plans to impliment sculpties into a in world interfaces some how... the or maybe a new system that provides same results without having to use exterior programs?
[15:38] Jeremy Linden: I think perhaps a better learning experience might also boost inworld experience with content creation.
[15:38] Torley Linden: i really agree with that Jeremy, insofar as surpassing fears of things that SEEM harder to do... but are actually quite simple
[15:38] Perefim Cao: I mean don't get me wrong sculpties have their uses but then again.. shouldn't everything be able to be done in world?
[15:38] Jeep Tenk: personally I would love to be able to switch of the yellow shimmering around prims - it makes precision work difficult
[15:39] Crap Mariner: perefim - agreed with regard to animations.
[15:39] Perefim Cao: ah yes animations is another good point crap.. I mean mariner ... doh ^^
[15:39] Ranos Brumer: At the same time Perefim
[15:39] Jeremy Linden: Perefim, I'm not familiar with any particular effort for that right now... Although there are some external programs that are getting very good at sculpty creation. DAZ3D's Hexagon now supports sculpties without need for special modification.
[15:39] Torley Linden: Jeep, there's a debug setting for that and i have a video tutorial! :)
[15:39] Ranos Brumer: Your also suggesting we be able to make textrues in clinet?
[15:39] Ranos Brumer: client*
[15:40] Jeep Tenk: ohhh - very cool - thx Torley...
[15:40] Ranos Brumer: and sounds, and animations
[15:40] Jeremy Linden: As for animations, there's always this:
[15:40] Perefim Cao: I understand but, if you can do scultpy results in world it cuts down on cost to developers for each 10L$ sculpty they make.. and then also on top of that.. having to use exterior products tips the balance of user fairness to users of sl
[15:40] Jeffbot lite bracelet:
[15:40] Torley Linden: one key thing about Second Life we hope to keep improving on is INTEROPERABILITY with other tools. not everything can and should be done in Second Life or it'd get too bloated, but when it makes most intuitive sense to perform edits inworld, then i think that's likely a humane, sensible design.
[15:41] Torley Linden: whether they're graphic design, social networking, or heck, even other virtual worlds (as AWG is working on)... that's in the cars for the future.
[15:41] Torley Linden: *cards
[15:41] Perefim Cao: I see thank you torley
[15:41] Jeremy Linden: Understood, Perefim. Personally, I like all my tools to be in the Second Life viewer as much as possible. I'd like to think we're moving in that direction, but I'm not intimately familiar with any project in progress.
[15:42] Jeremy Linden: And, as Torley said, interoperability is key.
[15:42] Malburns Writer: <would like to turn SL into an OS - prob solved!>
[15:42] Jeffbot lite bracelet:
[15:42] Jeremy Linden: The more tools we're compatible with, the more options people have to use tools they already know.
[15:42] Jeep Tenk: I think it would be well neigh impossible to incorporate all tool within the wiever
[15:42] Torley Linden: hehe Malburns, SLOS! i remember some creative mockups of that ;)
[15:42] Kate Linden: I'm watching the clock here also and thank Jeremy for being here today.
[15:43] Torley Linden: totally Jeremy, and that in itself builds value for Second Life, and provides an easier transition path to/from our virtual world :)
[15:43] Jeep Tenk: the aux software is much too complex for that
[15:43] Mia Linden: woot Jeremy!
[15:43] Torley Linden: "already know this? guess what! you can use with in Second Life!"
[15:43] Kate Linden: I'd like to move to Torley who will be talking about Educational Resouces and how they relate.
[15:43] Jeremy Linden: Heh! I hope I managed to answer questions to someone's satisfaction! I didn't get the questions I expected; I gotta be more prepared for my audience next time :-)
[15:43] Torley Linden: oh JOYYYYY so i'd like to first of all say, it's a thrill to be here...
[15:43] Ravenelle Zugzwang: *clap clapclap clap*
[15:43] Ranos Brumer: Was fun but I gotta go
[15:43] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: ty for your time , Jeremy
[15:43] Perefim Cao: I also wanted to ask, I heard thorugh SLDEV channel LL is tryign to fix the error between an alpha and an ahlpa prim being in near proximity as we all know the glitch there.
[15:43] Perefim Cao: is this true?
[15:44] Perefim Cao: oh crap I was to late
[15:44] Perefim Cao: sorry nvm :D
[15:44] Torley Linden: and glad to be alongside Jeremy and Kate from our Documentation Team, Dimi, and Mia from our V-Team... i've conversed with all of them before on various things having to do with "enlightenment"
[15:44] Torley Linden: and what i mean by "enlightenment" is the spread and understanding of knowledge
[15:44] Torley Linden: which is why you're here today :)
[15:44] Torley Linden: i have this funny portmanteau... USEFUN, which is a combo of USEFUL + FUN
[15:45] Jeep Tenk: I had a question about transparancier - it it too late?
[15:45] Torley Linden: some (most?) of you may know me as "that video tutorial guy", and i create video tutorials teaching how to use Second Life Skills @
[15:45] Jeep Tenk: transparancies*
[15:45] Torley Linden: or you may've seen my Tip of the Week on
[15:45] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: Torley is on a roll.. your too late, Jeep :)
[15:45] Torley Linden: the fact of the matter is, i love to fill gaps and connect pieces together, and at Linden Lab, that involves a dizzying array of tangents and making sense of a lot of CHAOS
[15:45] Torley Linden: so when Kate mentioned 'educational resources', that refers to things like... the Knowledge Base @
[15:46] Torley Linden: and it also means other, related help like...
[15:46] Torley Linden: now...
[15:46] Torley Linden: THE WIKI IS VERY FUNNY
[15:46] Torley Linden: and i say that because... it began as a tech-oriented resource
[15:46] Torley Linden: when we first Open-Sourced Second Life, that's where a lot of that documentation went. and LSL (Linden Scripting Language) stuff followed suit.
[15:46] Torley Linden: eventually tho, more newcomer-friendly stuff got put up!
[15:46] Torley Linden: a fantastic example WHICH I WOULD LIKE TO SHARE OMG is
[15:47] Mia Linden: woot
[15:47] Torley Linden: which is a handy linklist put together by Lexie and the VTeam... (check it out, yo)
[15:47] Torley Linden: AND ANOTHER VERY COOL THING about the wiki is...
[15:47] Torley Linden: any, ANY Resident can start their own page, like an extended profile
[15:47] Torley Linden: and add to additional info pages...
[15:47] Torley Linden: i'm going to share a few, encourage your exploration (like Wikipedia, you can follow one link to another and get lost in time)
[15:48] Torley Linden: and then take some questions awwwwwright
[15:48] Torley Linden: so you may also find these useful, i started them WITH THE HOPES that IF YOU KNOW SOMETHING, YOU CAN ADD
[15:48] Torley Linden: thus making the pages AWESOMER
[15:48] Torley Linden: (and we like awesomer, don't we? :D)
[15:48] Kate Linden: Absolutely
[15:48] Torley Linden: they are NOT comprehensive, which is exactly why i'm inviting your additions:
[15:48] Torley Linden: Ways to discover cool stuff in Second Life -
[15:48] Silena Bleac: yea
[15:48] Torley Linden: Second Life Limits (e..g, how high can you fly, how many prims you can link together) -
[15:49] Crap Mariner: So this would be a place to replicate my podcasting tutorials in wiki form?
[15:49] Torley Linden: Crap, you can SURE do that!!
[15:49] Torley Linden: yes, go ahead and feel free
[15:49] Crap Mariner: roger roger
[15:49] Jeremy Linden: Indeed. Part of the magic of wikis is that *anyone* can contribute, if they feel they have some important information to add.
[15:49] Torley Linden: some Residents have made IMPRESSIVE wiki pages for themselves and related resources... Zai Lynch is a great example
[15:49] Torley Linden: and my own crazy page is @
[15:50] Torley Linden: and a bunch more are at
[15:50] Torley Linden: BUT...
[15:50] Torley Linden: DON'T LET ME DROWN YOU IN LINKS!
[15:50] Torley Linden: ~*~ indulge your curiosities, it's question time!!!! ~*~
[15:50] Terence Back: to late
[15:50] Case Tomorrow drowns
[15:50] Terence Back: ehehehehe
[15:50] Torley Linden: hhehehe
[15:50] Veronik Broome: :-)
[15:50] Perefim Cao girggles..... bloo p[ bloop bloop*
[15:50] Torley Linden: what do YOU want to know about our resources? :D
[15:50] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: How about supplying these wiki's on HTML-on-a-prim .. ? :))
[15:51] Torley Linden: WiLLuMPJuH , you know, that wll totally become more useful when we get interactive browsing...
[15:51] Perefim Cao throws case a prim as a life raft
[15:51] Torley Linden: it's not here yet, but you can certainly browse the wiki in the inworld browser
[15:51] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: ok
[15:51] Crap Mariner: Is there any plan to integrate the video tutorials in a context-censitive help form in the viewer? Say, when opening appearance, allowing people to go straight to your appearance videos?
[15:51] Torley Linden: Crap: I AM SO GLAD YOU ASKED!!!!!!!
[15:51] Torley Linden: okay, so there's this core group of Lindens i'm working with: Pastrami, Brett, Jose. we're working on a project which you've seen the first phase of...
[15:52] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: will that not increase load on bandwith ?
[15:52] Torley Linden: and that first phase is the official rebranding of video tutorials. if you're a longtime watcher,
[15:52] Crap Mariner has filled a fourth of an iPod Classic with them
[15:52] Torley Linden: a few weeks ago, we changed the video tutorial intro/outro to have the official Second Life logo
[15:52] Torley Linden: rock on Crap :D
[15:52] Torley Linden: and NEXT PHASE... includes improving , where they currently live with a YouTube player
[15:52] Torley Linden: but that... isn't... good enough!
[15:53] Torley Linden: we want to categorize them with search, with categories (hee), and of course, Jeremy, Kate, and Jon of Doc Team have helped a lot with getting them in our Knowledge Base
[15:53] Torley Linden: and AFTER THAT... yes, we want them to be playable within Second Life itself, as easily as possible
[15:53] Crap Mariner: way cool
[15:53] Malburns Writer: sl desparately needs flash plug-in as well as QT
[15:53] Torley Linden: the main roadblocks right now are... well, a couple i'll mention: (1) SL doesn't support facile Flash playback YET and (2) even with QuickTime (which is supported on a parcel), we don't have transport controls/means to display that in the in-viewer browser
[15:53] Torley Linden: WHY NOT!?!? some of you might ask...
[15:53] Jeremy Linden: Yes, I would LOVE to see a streaming Torley channel inworld. It would be like the Discovery Channel on cable TV :-)
[15:54] Torley Linden: (EXACTLY, Malburns)
[15:54] Mia Linden: that would be so good
[15:54] Mia Linden: Torley Tube
[15:54] Torley Linden: we haven't gotten further with that due to lack of resources, the same people who could help with that (i'm referring to our brilliant devs) are the same people working on New Search and a variety of other projects in the works... but there's an ongoing emphasis on making the New User Experience better
[15:54] WiLLuMPJuH Footman sees issues with linux and Quicktime and playing videos lurking about .. :(
[15:54] Torley Linden: and i have no question that i'd like to see enhanced context-sensitive help
[15:54] Torley Linden: hahah thanx Jeremy and Mia :)
[15:55] Torley Linden: so yeah, that's the long and short on that... or whatever the cool kids are calling that nowadays
[15:55] Kate Linden: We've added some of Torleys videos in I-World Island as well.
[15:55] Jeremy Linden: Ah, yes. Context-sensitive help would be a huge improvement.
[15:55] Torley Linden: THANX Kate, yes...
[15:55] Torley Linden: what... i... hate...
[15:55] Torley Linden: HATE...
[15:55] Torley Linden: H A T E
[15:55] Kate Linden: Feel free to send residents to learn Torley vidtut style.
[15:55] Torley Linden: is when knowledge exists...
[15:55] Crap Mariner: Making the F1 key smarter makes residents smarter ;)
[15:55] Torley Linden: but when you can't find it!
[15:55] Torley Linden: that's a complete and utter waste. so not only is it important to CREATE info to share, but to DISTRIBUTE it.
[15:55] Jeremy Linden: All those little question-mark buttons could be made more useful and helpful, instead of "things to ignore" :-)
[15:56] Dimitrio Lewis: I-World Island is definately worth seeing. :)
[15:56] Torley Linden: and like i said, that's exactly what Enlightenment is about... increasing your fun and understanding with the SPREAD OF KNOWLEDGE
[15:56] Torley Linden: as Linden Lab has grown too, it's been cool to see specific group/team benefits to connect with our community
[15:56] Torley Linden: and I-World is a great example (and early example, early! in the long run!) of that
[15:57] Torley Linden: if any of you want to meet Lindens inworld at another time and don't know where to look, i thus refer you to the Office Hours page -
[15:57] Torley Linden: which is another fine resource... mwa ha ha
[15:57] Torley Linden: soooo what else is there!!! bring it on!
[15:57] Torley Linden shouts: BRING IT ONNNNN!
[15:57] Jeremy Linden: Speaking of the wiki and spreading knowledge, I believe Kate has an announcement to make...
[15:57] Torley Linden: Ohhhh... announcement? :D
[15:57] Jeep Tenk: I think its a bit embarrasing, that the only way you can find anything in the SL help sites is viia Google :-p
[15:57] Geo Meek: :-)
[15:58] Geo Meek: hehe
[15:58] Mia Linden: go Kate!
[15:58] Mia Linden: tell us
[15:58] Jeremy Linden: Oh, doh! Torley already hit the announcement.
[15:58] Kate Linden: Ah Torley beat me to it and presented the wiki Toolbox
[15:58] Torley Linden: Jeep, our search will get better too... and yes, i have used Google Custom Search in the past to dig through our archives. ;) but one part that isn't embarrassing is our New Search tech uses Google Search Appliance.
[15:58] Mia Linden: smiles
[15:58] Torley Linden: OHHH i'm sorry... did i spoil that!!!
[15:58] Torley Linden: *BLUSH*
[15:58] Mia Linden: Lexie rocks
[15:58] Kate Linden: Not at all : )
[15:58] Mia Linden: i call her Wiki Woman!
[15:58] Torley Linden: i'm too hyperexcited, i swear
[15:58] Jeep Tenk: lol
[15:58] Torley Linden: i need a whole truck of chill pills
[15:58] Torley Linden: you could put me and Steve Ballmer in a room
[15:58] Torley Linden: and we'd be like WOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[15:59] Kate Linden: lol
[15:59] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: .....
[15:59] Torley Linden: he'd be going "developers developers" but i'd go "RESIDENTS RESIDENTS"
[15:59] Tara Yeats: Torley - sans flash, any shorter term plans to convert your videos to QT and make those available?
[15:59] Silena Bleac: lol
[15:59] Kate Linden: We have about two minutes if there are last minute brief questions.
[15:59] Kate Linden: One minute rather
[15:59] Perefim Cao: jesus christ torley are you cpy pasting or actually typing.. my eyes don't move that fast!!!! O.O
[15:59] Jeremy Linden: Ooh, true enough about Google, Torley. Let them do search really well, and we'll use their search to deliver our information :-)
[15:59] Torley Linden shouts: Tara: GOOD NEWS, ALL my videos are available in QT. ALL of them, in iPod-compatible MP4s ... at look for "DOWNLOAD" links
[15:59] Torley Linden: Perefim, i'm really typing!
[15:59] Terence Back: Tons of watermelons for your effrorts, Torley :)
[15:59] Torley Linden: i use copypaste macros too but you guys are too personal and special
[15:59] Terence Back: efforts
[15:59] Torley Linden: thanks so much Terence!!
[15:59] Perefim Cao OOOOOOOO>>> holy crap
[15:59] Torley Linden: Jeremy: lol
[15:59] Kate Linden can vouch for Torley's typing speed
[16:00] Jeremy Linden: Oy. Torley has unbelievable keyboard-fu.
[16:00] Torley Linden: (i'm sorry i can't exchange friendships on this account but feel free to send them to Torley Tester, my alt ;) )
[16:00] Crap Mariner has referred the Spacenav videos dozens of times to folks just buying them
[16:00] Perefim Cao cowers from fear of torley's l##t +10 typing haste skills
[16:00] Kate Linden: Thank you all for coming. We hope you found this panel enlightening.
[16:00] Torley Linden shouts: it's just a matter of doing it lots, the sad (?) thing is i never learned the proper way, i type with two fingers and thumbs... but enthusiasm DOES make a difference... if you're persistent, you can make GREAT things happen!
[16:00] Torley Linden: awesome Crap! (lol, how about that... "AWESOME CRAP!" it makes sense!)
[16:00] Dimitrio Lewis: so true Torley
[16:00] Mia Linden: I will come again Kate!
[16:00] Crap Mariner: ha HA
[16:00] Perefim Cao: :D
[16:00] Kate Linden: : )
[16:01] Torley Linden shouts: don't repeat the same mistakes, but be like the rat in the maze... you look for the cheese, then you learn to climb walls... then you mutate and become a SUPER RAT!
[16:01] Torley Linden shouts: or something like that. :-D
[16:01] Ravenelle Zugzwang: *clap clap clap clap*
[16:01] Torley Linden: thanx so much for moderating us Kate
[16:01] Jeremy Linden: That needs to be a group title now.
[16:01] Jeep Tenk: I saw some of Torleys vids and they rae great - and funny... I'm going to spend more time watching them - cheers...
[16:01] Perefim Cao: O.o? is lost
[16:01] Torley Linden: thankya Jeep
[16:01] Perefim Cao: .......
[16:01] Perefim Cao: thank you torley for giving us your time
[16:01] Perefim Cao: same to you jeremy and kate and mia
[16:01] Torley Linden shouts: and watch for the Knowledge Base Article of the Week and Video Tip of the Week posts from us! more Enlightenment to come!
[16:01] Malburns Writer: yes - thank you all
[16:01] Malburns Writer APPLAUDS!!!
[16:01] Crap Mariner: ty'all
[16:02] Silena Bleac: thanks for coming
[16:02] Jeep Tenk: thx...
[16:02] Terence Back: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[16:02] Jeremy Linden: Thank you all for coming with your questions!
[16:02] Torley Linden: and thank YOU so much Perefim and everyone for being with us here on this day. i had thunderstorms earlier and was like "whoa, electricity, back off dude! i got knowhow to share!"
[16:02] Silena Bleac: ^VV^VV^HowlzZzZ^VV^VV^
[16:02] Silena Bleac: V^vv^V HoWlLLzZz V^vv^V
[16:02] Jeep Tenk: d**b  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!******AIRHORN******!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! d**b
[16:02] Master Nestler: YAY! (yay!)
[16:02] Tara Yeats: Good session! Thanks Kate, Torley, Jeremy, Dimitrio!
[16:02] Veronik Broome: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[16:02] Tara Yeats: Clap clap clap clap clap! Woot!
[16:02] Imnot Welty: Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy!!! :D :D :D
[16:02] Silena Bleac: thanks again
[16:02] Malburns Writer APPLAUDS!!!
[16:02] Viviane Karas: Thank youss :))
[16:02] Crap Mariner looks for the tipjar... HAH
[16:02] Torley Linden: OH YEAH, and if you have Linden bear requests, feel free to let us know!
[16:02] Geo Meek: is this meeting in TEXT?
[16:02] Tara Yeats: lol Crap
[16:02] Terence Back: ty you all for the great work
[16:02] Terence Back: SL has been contantly improving
[16:02] Tara Yeats wants a Linden bear!
[16:02] Imerda Cazalet accepted your inventory offer.
[16:02] Torley Linden: i am gonna put this chat transcript up on the blog and such
[16:03] Viviane Karas: yes plz if anyone saved it :)
[16:03] Imerda Cazalet accepted your inventory offer.
[16:03] Torley Linden: it has been a joy, a pleasure, an irrepressible EXPERIENCE
[16:03] Case Tomorrow: YAY!
[16:03] Torley Linden: yayzeramaaaa
[16:03] Jeep Tenk: lol
[16:03] Crap Mariner has sworn to keep only Cogs' bear ;)
[16:03] Geo Meek: \is this meeting in TEXT?
[16:03] Silena Bleac: thanks for all the infpo
[16:03] Torley Linden: Crap, loyal you are! but you shall never know the joys of a COLLECTION OF BEARS!!!!
[16:03] Tara Yeats: Geo - yes, it was all in text
[16:03] Torley Linden: yes Geo :) it was
[16:03] Torley Linden: sorry if you missed it
[16:03] Mia Linden: good to see you all and I will come back and talk with you all and feel free to visit me at my office hour which is every Monday at 4pm PDT in Ambleside at my office!
[16:03] Torley Linden: i will put transcript up @ soonesque
[16:03] Jeremy Linden: Thank goodness for being able to click names in chat history now to open profiles.
[16:03] Kate Linden: Geo, yes it was
[16:03] Torley Linden: mmmm OFFICE HOURS
[16:03] Crap Mariner has a collection of gears ;)
[16:03] Silena Bleac: info
[16:03] Torley Linden: JEREMY TOTALLY
[16:03] Torley Linden: that is one of my fave pictures!
[16:03] Torley Linden: i know not the joy of gears
[16:03] Torley Linden: @_@
[16:04] Torley Linden: er, fave features!
[16:04] Torley Linden: clickability is lovely for handing out bears!
[16:04] Tara Yeats: Thanx Jeremy! :-)
[16:04] Silena Bleac: bye Torley
[16:04] Perefim Cao: empires of may rise and fall but the gears of change keep on turning!
[16:04] Crap Mariner: there. your first gear ;)
[16:04] Crap Mariner gave you Animated Heart Gear.
[16:04] Malburns Writer: can i have bear too - could start museum maybe
[16:04] Torley Linden: wow thanks for getting me started, i may becom a geardict yet
[16:04] Crap Mariner: yay!
[16:04] Master Nestler: lol
[16:04] Case Tomorrow: hehe
[16:04] Perefim Cao: if you need to torley
[16:04] Perefim Cao: I got a 1000L$ gift card for you
[16:04] Silena Bleac: I'd like a bear too
[16:04] Perefim Cao: and an LM to my shop
[16:04] Malburns Writer: tks Jeremy
[16:05] Torley Linden: that's nice Perefim, i don't need the gift card but a landmark would be sweellllll
[16:05] Jeremy Linden: Heh. There are a few Linden Bear museums out there... I wonder if anyone ever compares collections!
[16:05] Perefim Cao gave you [OMFG] Main Store / Forbidden To, Shiromani (85, 77, 303).
[16:05] Torley Linden: well that is so nice... :)
[16:05] Master Nestler: Friendly Greeting :)
[16:05] Torley Linden: earlier today i met a fella who said he has 105 bears!
[16:05] Dimitrio Lewis: I bet they do Jeremy
[16:05] Torley Linden: *hugglez my Loco Poco Ravie*
[16:06] Malburns Writer: well i now have first - best start somewhere - lol
[16:07] Malburns Writer: ouch - out of suynch there
[16:07] Tara Yeats: hehe Mal
[16:07] blogHUD Messenger: Your image post has arrived at []: see
[16:07] Terence Back: ciao Jareth
[16:07] Jareth McMahon: ma ciauuuuuuu!!!! terenzio
[16:07] Terence Back: eheheh
[16:07] Terence Back: traducevo
[16:08] Jareth McMahon: lol
[16:08] Tara Yeats accepted your inventory offer.
[16:08] Jeep Tenk: nite guys :)
[16:08] Terence Back: SL UN interpreter
[16:08] Terence Back: ecco, mi do sto titolo
[16:08] Terence Back: ehehe
[16:08] Torley Linden: i gonna go, take care all! thanx for being with us... nini or dayday, wherever ya are
[16:08] Terence Back: TY Torley
[16:08] Terence Back: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[16:08] Crap Mariner salutes
[16:08] Tara Yeats accepted your inventory offer.
[16:08] Dimitrio Lewis: take care Torley :)
[16:09] Malburns Writer: c u torley - thanks again
[16:09] Malburns Writer APPLAUDS!!!