Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2012.03.27

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List of Speakers

Andrew Linden Ashiri Christy Mynx
Davido Chrome Draconis Neurocam FadeOut Razorfen
Fancy Detector Flip Idlemind Ima Mechanique
Imaze Rhiano Kelly Linden Liisa Runo
Martin RJ MartinRJ Fayray Nalates Urriah
NeoBokrug Elytis Qie Niangao Rex Cronon
Sahkolihaa Contepomi Sera Lok Simon Linden
Squirrel Wood TankMaster Finesmith Vincent Nacon


[12:02] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Yeah, I think this build has that in too. Wasn't sure what those were about (JIRA isn't public).

[12:02] MartinRJ Fayray: oh Simon you fixed it? Thanks much

[12:02] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Hey Andrew.

[12:02] Simon Linden: It went into the repo this morning

[12:02] Andrew Linden: hello

[12:02] MartinRJ Fayray: I just read 'kelly'.. but now I see that he was the one who reviewed it

[12:02] Fancy Detector: Kelly Linden has arrived!

[12:02] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Hey Kelly.

[12:02] MartinRJ Fayray: Hello Kelly, Andrew and Simon:)

[12:02] Kelly Linden: what'd I do?

[12:03] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Reviewed Simon's fix. :p

[12:03] Kelly Linden: seems likely

[12:03] Simon Linden: The memory leaks were just from finding that sendListToRegions() calls needed to be checked ... some were allocating memory but not freeing it

[12:03] Nalates Urriah: The snowstorm page link to Latest Windows build is still stuck on 252752.

[12:03] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Whoops.

[12:03] Nalates Urriah: 251752^

[12:03] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Not freeing memory = never a good sign.

[12:04] Flip Idlemind: What is this sendListToRegions() of which you speak

[12:04] Imaze Rhiano: so... what happens here "if(!desc->empty())" if desc is null ?

[12:04] Squirrel Wood: when you got 24 Gigs of RAM it may be less of a problem... but you will notice eventually :p

[12:04] Vincent Nacon: 24 Gb?

[12:04] Andrew Linden: most likely it would crash (segfault)

[12:04] Vincent Nacon: eventually? more like in a long while

[12:05] Imaze Rhiano gives cookie for Andrew

[12:05] FadeOut Razorfen: firestorm crashes for me faster then it reaches 1.4 gb, when i got 8gb

[12:05] Flip Idlemind: Ohhh it's a viewer function. /me went to retrieve microwave stuff and missed a few things

[12:05] Andrew Linden: I don't have much news. I'm working on getting the pathfinding stuff ready for early beta on agni.

[12:06] Andrew Linden: It is looking pretty good... a few known bugs

[12:06] NeoBokrug Elytis: Any ETA on early beta for Agni?

[12:06] MartinRJ Fayray: when you are at it. When you are in Europe and set the permission for 'transfer', the moment when you moved the mouse to the left and check 'modify', it is unchecked because that's the moment when the server sends back the new permissions

[12:06] Rex Cronon: greetings everybody

[12:06] MartinRJ Fayray: so you check 'transfer', move the mouse to 'modify', check it, and that moment it gets unchecked again

[12:06] MartinRJ Fayray: I'm sure it works fine in the US

[12:06] Andrew Linden: probaby the most annoying is that avatars can't jump correctly on the pathfinding stuff, but I'm going to try to figure that out today

[12:06] MartinRJ Fayray: depends on the ping (my guess)

[12:06] Nalates Urriah: Anyone else get no permissions to edit when trying to test Pathfinding?

[12:07] FadeOut Razorfen: yea i've noticed that

[12:07] Simon Linden: There wasn't a new server version rolled out this morning, but regions were re-started which helps performance

[12:07] Davido Chrome:

[12:07] Flip Idlemind: Coolio

[12:07] Simon Linden: Tomorrow there will be new code in the RC channels

[12:07] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Ah.

[12:07] Simon Linden: The details are in

[12:07] Flip Idlemind: I"m happy that the RC process is back on track, because Kelly promises that the next next NEXT maint-server will have llGetAgentList (or whatever it's called)

[12:08] Simon Linden: The region-crossing code is getting an update, and the other two RC channels are getting a maintenace update

[12:08] MartinRJ Fayray mumbles: 'I'll make a video and put it on a jira'

[12:08] Simon Linden: Kelly or Andrew - do either of you have other news?

[12:09] Andrew Linden: No other news.

[12:09] Simon Linden: So the table or mushroom is open for topics

[12:09] MartinRJ Fayray: when you are at it. When you are in Europe and set the permission for 'transfer', the moment when you moved the mouse to the left and check 'modify', it is unchecked because that's the moment when the server sends back the new permissions

[12:10] MartinRJ Fayray: so you check 'transfer', move the mouse to 'modify', check it, and that moment it gets unchecked again

[12:06] Martin RJ: I'm sure it works fine in the US

[12:10] FadeOut Razorfen: but what abot agenda, there is something there

[12:10] Andrew Linden: MartinRJ, that no-perms bug for pathfinding is interesting. A jira about it would definitely be helpful.

[12:10] FadeOut Razorfen:

[12:10] Flip Idlemind: I know that I have, somewhere in my mind, a big list of topics I wanna bring up. Lemme search my brain

[12:10] Davido Chrome: Andrew, that's all over the grid...

[12:10] Andrew Linden: oh is it? not new to pathfinding?

[12:11] MartinRJ Fayray: no it came with viewer 2

[12:11] Davido Chrome: It's always been that way...

[12:11] Simon Linden: I'm not sure what on that agenda is new and what is old, so feel free to bring up what interests you

[12:11] FadeOut Razorfen: i think its about transfering permission changes from viewer uses UDP instead of TCP

[12:12] Simon Linden: That does sound like a delay in the messaging

[12:12] Davido Chrome: It's even worse for the checkboxes in serach.

[12:12] MartinRJ Fayray: it worked in the latest version of viewer 1.x

[12:12] Davido Chrome: Serch...

[12:12] Davido Chrome: Search!

[12:12] MartinRJ Fayray: *versions :)

[12:12] Flip Idlemind: Ok, I found a topic in my head. You know the "Avatar Sounds" parcel feature? Well, it only seems to affect scripted sounds that are started with llTriggerSound(). llPlaySound sounds still go through, when they shouldn't

[12:13] Simon Linden: Flip - you mean limiting the AV sounds to a parcel?

[12:13] Vincent Nacon: your search processing took quite a time there, Flip

[12:13] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I think he means disabling playing avatar sounds.

[12:13] Davido Chrome: This part of the sounds not preloading since a week or few back?

[12:13] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Or sounds from an avatar.

[12:14] Qie Niangao: flip, does it matter if they're in actual avatar attachments? (or is that the only kind of sounds that are controlled?)

[12:14] Flip Idlemind: I mean the option that says "Avatar Sounds: Everyone Group"

[12:14] MartinRJ Fayray: btw... Sounds doesn't play at the first attempt (all sounds) in the latest stable release

[12:14] Simon Linden: ok - well, it sounds like a straightforward bug

[12:14] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Martin - it's a server-side bug as far as I'm aware.

[12:14] MartinRJ Fayray: *don't

[12:15] MartinRJ Fayray: even the UI sounds don't play at the first attempt

[12:15] Flip Idlemind: I'm not sure but I have two attachments, and when I disable Avatar Sounds for "Everyone", one of my attachments (that uses llTriggerSound) is properly silenced, but another one (that uses llPlaySound) still plays sounds

[12:15] Davido Chrome: I can confirm it. So can all the simball players I know. The first ballspawn/ steal/goal doesn't have a sound.

[12:15] MartinRJ Fayray: how to reproduce: open any sound in your inventory, press 'play inworld' -> nothing happens

[12:15] MartinRJ Fayray: press 'play inworld' a second time -> it works

[12:16] Andrew Linden: and everybody experiences the same thing?

[12:16] Squirrel Wood: aye

[12:16] Flip Idlemind: My theory on what Martin is talking about, the Viewer won't try to play the sound until it's loaded, but it ends up trying to play it when it's "almost loaded"

[12:16] Davido Chrome: Yup.

[12:16] Andrew Linden: yeah, must be server-side

[12:16] FadeOut Razorfen: yep i've noticed something like that... before, when you play a sound - it was taking time loading and then playing. now it takes time loading, and doesn't que for playing anymore.

[12:16] Squirrel Wood: you can see the viewer requesting th easset

[12:16] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: It started for me since the last inventory maintenance (Friday).

[12:17] MartinRJ Fayray: (or even play locally)

[12:17] Squirrel Wood: I've seen it for the past couple months koli

[12:17] Squirrel Wood: that behavior also breaks sound queueing

[12:17] Simon Linden: ok, so the doesn't-play-the-first-time problem sounds like a viewer issue, while the other seems to be on the simulator

[12:17] Flip Idlemind: Oh, lemme make a JIRA for the Avatar Sounds bug, since I know you guize like JIRAs

[12:17] Simon Linden: Does that make sense/

[12:17] Simon Linden: ?

[12:17] Flip Idlemind: Yes it does

[12:18] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I don't understand how the first-time-played bug is viewer-side since nothing was changed around that area on viewmaster.

[12:18] Davido Chrome: The problem seems to be present on multiple viewers though.

[12:18] Imaze Rhiano: ya... from different tpvs too

[12:18] Andrew Linden: Right, I thought the doesn't-play-the-first-time bug sounded like it was server-side

[12:18] FadeOut Razorfen: yep looks like viewer issue

[12:18] Flip Idlemind: It's been that way for a while, that's why

[12:19] Squirrel Wood: the client definitely requests the asset to play it, but never starts playing it

[12:19] Simon Linden: The viewmaster code hasn't made it out into beta, Koli, so I suspect it broke earlier

[12:20] MartinRJ Fayray: I'm sorry I interrupted FLIP:

[12:20] MartinRJ Fayray: I'm not sure but I have two attachments, and when I disable Avatar Sounds for "Everyone", one of my attachments (that uses llTriggerSound) is properly silenced, but another one (that uses llPlaySound) still plays sounds

[12:20] TankMaster Finesmith: the first time play but was before viewermaster

[12:20] Andrew Linden: It used to be that when a sound first plays that you've never heard before the viewer wouldn't have the sound asset and would request it...

[12:20] TankMaster Finesmith: we have it in firestorm after merging eith viewer-dev, and we have no code from viewermaster in firestorm

[12:20] MartinRJ Fayray: do you mean on a parcel?

[12:20] Andrew Linden: and then once it arrived (several seconds later) it would play

[12:21] Andrew Linden: so a very big delay

[12:21] Andrew Linden: to the point that the causality was no longer clear

[12:21] TankMaster Finesmith: thats how its suposed to work, andrew, but its not playing at all now

[12:21] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Yeah, even UI sounds don't (why are UI sounds not included with the viewer?).

[12:21] Simon Linden: Right, and that was the point of using llPreloadSound

[12:21] TankMaster Finesmith: itll play the second time the sound is requested after its been cached

[12:21] Andrew Linden: I wonder if someone disabled the delayed play

[12:22] Andrew Linden: that is, we just never play the first one because it is so delayed

[12:22] FadeOut Razorfen: bad idea

[12:22] TankMaster Finesmith: i don tknow

[12:22] Simon Linden: I can see an arguement for some limit on that delay

[12:22] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Wouldn't doing that break A LOT of content?

[12:22] Squirrel Wood: even preloadsound does not "preload" some sound snippets even when called multiple times over some time.

[12:22] FadeOut Razorfen: bad idea like semantic spaces in python lol

[12:22] MartinRJ Fayray: agreed

[12:23] Vincent Nacon: sounds about right

[12:23] Flip Idlemind: Ok, here it is: SVC-7790. And while we're at it, SVC-7743

[12:23] JIRA-helper:

[#SVC-7790] "Avatar Sounds" feature fails to disable all scripted sounds

[12:23] JIRA-helper:

[#SVC-7743] Better Administrative Control over who can Speak on Voice

[12:23] TankMaster Finesmith: yes, the current way is braking inworld sounds that are on a continuous loop, like most watter effect sounds

[12:23] Simon Linden: I've never really looked at what llPreloadSound does and how exactly the viewer gets any messages or reacts to it

[12:23] Vincent Nacon: sorry... correction llPlaySound("about right",1);

[12:24] Squirrel Wood: anyone can hear that ice scream ?

[12:24] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: >.<

[12:24] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I can, but I heard it earlier.

[12:24] Squirrel Wood: if not, you suffer from the bug

[12:24] Vincent Nacon: don't have headphone plugged in right now

[12:24] MartinRJ Fayray: I don't

[12:24] Rex Cronon: i guess the call to play sound is blocked until an event triggers it?

[12:25] Qie Niangao: just playing with it now, I see some long sounds won't play even the second attempt, but will with later attempts... like it has to get into cache first before an attempt can succeed.

[12:25] Flip Idlemind: I now hear screaming

[12:26] Andrew Linden: Huh, then maybe it really is a viewer-side bug.

[12:26] FadeOut Razorfen: yea seems like it, because viewer gets to load the sound, and when its loaded it should play it

[12:27] Flip Idlemind: What I think is happening is

[12:27] Flip Idlemind: It starts to play it when it *thinks* it's loaded

[12:27] MartinRJ Fayray:

[12:27] Flip Idlemind: But since it's not, it doesn't play

[12:27] JIRA-helper: [#SVC-7791] Sounds aren't played at first attempt

[12:27] MartinRJ Fayray: I just made a JIRA for it.

[12:28] Simon Linden: We'll pick those up later this week when we do the bug triage and they should get into our work list

[12:28] Flip Idlemind: By those do you mean SVC-7790 as well

[12:28] Flip Idlemind: ""Avatar Sounds" feature fails to disable all scripted sounds"

[12:28] MartinRJ Fayray: I'm just trying to reproduce

[12:29] Simon Linden: Yes Flip - we meet regularly and sort all the new SVC bugs. Some are support or maybe viewer issues, and the real bugs are brought into our internal lists

[12:29] Andrew Linden: Some LL devs were looking into interestlist delivery problems/behavior recently. I thought they were eventually going to also consider how to improve the viewer side cache.

[12:30] Flip Idlemind: Coolio

[12:30] TankMaster Finesmith: we are looking into getting a havoc license for firestorm, and when you ask for a quite, its asks for what parts you are interested in (like physics, ai, etc) does anyone know what parts are needed by the viewer for things like pathfinding and mesh upload? (and anything else havoc related)

[12:30] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over

[12:30] Andrew Linden: This first-play bug would probably be reduced if we could just cache more stuff viewer-side.

[12:30] TankMaster Finesmith: andrew, something to look into would be that sound cache gets deleted whent he viewer is closed

[12:31] Squirrel Wood: sound cache used to get deleted

[12:31] Flip Idlemind: OH, good! Because that reminds me of something else I wanted to bring up, related to the interest list. It seems that, if you move your camera very far away from your avatar, the server then interprets your HUD attachments as being very far away, and updates them much less frequently

[12:31] Squirrel Wood: it does not anymore

[12:31] Andrew Linden: yes TankMaster. Right now Havok AI is being used for a viewer lib in the viewer for the pathfinding work.

[12:32] Andrew Linden: The viewer doesn't use much of the Havok physics lib, but might use it for the mesh uploader

[12:32] TankMaster Finesmith: do you know of any other parts we may need?

[12:33] Andrew Linden: It definitely uses some Havok geometry utils. The mesh convex decomposition stuff.

[12:33] Simon Linden: That's an interesting one, Flip. Do you have an example HUD that shows that?

[12:33] Vincent Nacon: what's the coverage on that library? the license I mean

[12:33] Flip Idlemind: Hmm I could probably throw one together

[12:33] Andrew Linden: None of the other parts TankMaster. The SL simulator is only using Physics and AI right now.

[12:33] Simon Linden: That would be great. You'll get bonus points if you file a jira :)

[12:33] TankMaster Finesmith: okm thx

[12:33] Liisa Runo: i also think i have seen the behavior that Flip is talking about

[12:34] NeoBokrug Elytis: Where can we redeem these points?

[12:34] TankMaster Finesmith: vincent, theres a tone of parts, but the more you ask for the more it costs... and we would like to redice the cost obviously

[12:34] Rex Cronon: u don't really need havok to do mesh convex decomposition

[12:34] Simon Linden: uh, nice weather today

[12:34] Andrew Linden: Squirrel, you said "it does not anymore". What was that in response to?

[12:34] Squirrel Wood: sound cache getting deleted on exit

[12:35] Andrew Linden: ok thanks

[12:35] Squirrel Wood: it used to get deleted.

[12:35] Squirrel Wood: not anymore though.

[12:35] Andrew Linden: Nevertheless, I"m guessing the sound cache isn't as big or fast as it could be.

[12:35] Davido Chrome: Might be a sound collision thing then? Or something?

[12:35] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I'm pretty sure it does still get deleted...

[12:35] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Because I see very few sounds in my cache.

[12:35] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: But for Exodus, which DOES have it off, there's tons.

[12:35] Andrew Linden: We might eventually get around to examining that part of the system in the interestlist project.

[12:36] Squirrel Wood: koli, look for .dsf files

[12:36] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I have.

[12:36] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: This viewer has hardly any.

[12:36] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Exodus has hundreds.

[12:37] TankMaster Finesmith: thers a patch some viewers use to never delete sound cache

[12:37] Andrew Linden: Thanks for mentioning that HUD interestlist problem Flip. I'll mention it to the devs working on that.

[12:37] Davido Chrome: Uhm, doesn't this sound problem make ALL viewers break the new Shared experience clause? Even LL viewer to LL viewer. Sounds like it would be more prioritized.

[12:37] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Yeah, Exodus has the option to have it on/off.

[12:39] Andrew Linden makes a note.

[12:39] Andrew Linden: Whether or not the LL viewer deletes all sounds on logoff should be looked into.

[12:39] TankMaster Finesmith: kinda defets the purpuse of the sound cache

[12:39] TankMaster Finesmith: :D

[12:39] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: ^

[12:39] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Would certainly help LL with bandwidth.

[12:39] Simon Linden: Alve - no, this kind of thing is just a bug. I'm not a lawyer, but that clause is aimed at bigger issues

[12:39] Davido Chrome nods. Someone that just TPed in will not get the same experience as someone that is allready there.

[12:40] Davido Chrome: Ah. Ok.

[12:40] Flip Idlemind: SVC-7792

[12:40] JIRA-helper:

[#SVC-7792] HUD Attachments Receive Infrequent Updates when Camera is Zoomed Out

[12:40] TankMaster Finesmith: the viewer has a 10GB max cache, byt i think only 1GB is used for textures, so having a max of say 5GB for sounds shouldnt be an issue

[12:40] Flip Idlemind: Bonus points, please!

[12:40] Vincent Nacon: or you could have a small box playing all the sounds files at 0.01 volume where they teleport in

[12:41] Draconis Neurocam: im not sure who keeps track of such but the xml live datafeed <logged_in_last_60> and <transactions> has been Loading... for a while now,

[12:41] Simon Linden gives FLIP 3 bonus points

[12:41] Flip Idlemind: woooooo!

[12:41] MartinRJ Fayray: I was able to confirm SVC-7790

[12:41] TankMaster Finesmith: lol

[12:41] MartinRJ Fayray: updated FLIP's Jira

[12:41] Squirrel Wood: do 3 bonus points equal 1 glod sart ?

[12:42] Davido Chrome: Oh, that send to Markeplace thing doesn't work for me, Viewer or Server?

[12:42] Flip Idlemind: I hope so, I love glod sarts

[12:42] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: alve, Linux?

[12:42] TankMaster Finesmith: davido, are you on linux?

[12:42] Vincent Nacon sighs...

[12:42] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: If so, known problem.

[12:42] Davido Chrome: Yeah=

[12:42] TankMaster Finesmith: thats why

[12:42] TankMaster Finesmith: it doesnt work on linux currentl;y

[12:42] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Yeah, Linux viewer has outbox completely broken.

[12:42] TankMaster Finesmith: its the openSSL version

[12:42] Ashiri: is that the ssl issue too?

[12:43] TankMaster Finesmith: we believe so

[12:43] Davido Chrome: Ok, I can't afford Windows. So, please fix before that date when the magicboxes die?

[12:43] Vincent Nacon: ...

[12:43] TankMaster Finesmith: 9.8.0 works, 1.0.0 doesn't

[12:43] MartinRJ Fayray: my merchant outbox doesn't work either on Windows XP

[12:44] Flip Idlemind: Mine works once in a while

[12:44] MartinRJ Fayray: I wrote a whole page about what I've tried to get it to work in the Jira

[12:44] Vincent Nacon: haven't seen it show up at all

[12:44] Squirrel Wood: outbox doesn not work for some people, yet works on an alt of theirs.

[12:44] TankMaster Finesmith: theres abeen network issues with marketplace ever sence DD came out- it seems to be a little overloaded with traffic

[12:44] Rex Cronon: merchant outbox doesn't work on xp?

[12:44] Davido Chrome: I have tried it a couple of times a day for a week now.

[12:44] Andrew Linden: got a link to your blog post MartinRJ?

[12:44] Vincent Nacon: I'd imagine so

[12:45] MartinRJ Fayray:

[12:45] JIRA-helper: [#VWR-28630] Direct Delivery Outbox fails in Windows build

[12:46] Rex Cronon: why can't outbox work in parallel with magic box:(

[12:46] Flip Idlemind: They can, right? (Unless you mean permanently)

[12:46] NeoBokrug Elytis: I am guessing magic box is murder on the infrastructure.

[12:46] Vincent Nacon: because not everyone have parcel

[12:46] Simon Linden: I haven't heard of any schedule for magic boxes being shut off, but I'm not following those blogs closely

[12:47] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: May, isn't it?

[12:47] Sera Lok: may 18this the current deadline

[12:47] Nalates Urriah: That's what it says in the blog

[12:47] TankMaster Finesmith: simon - aril 15th any items under $10 willo not be ablowe to use majic boxes

[12:47] Simon Linden: oh ok, I didn't realize that

[12:47] Rex Cronon: getting a parcel can be very low cost

[12:47] TankMaster Finesmith: amd middle of may nothing will be allowed to use majic boxes

[12:48] Flip Idlemind: I no longer have any magic boxes out. Although...I think I misunderstood how the outbox works, so I may have put many copies of things into it :/

[12:48] Vincent Nacon: hope DD works before the deadline

[12:48] Flip Idlemind: I think all my stuff is direct deliverable now

[12:48] TankMaster Finesmith: most of my stuff is

[12:48] Squirrel Wood: =>

[12:49] Vincent Nacon: help me understand... is it a folder or some UI window? the Outbox

[12:49] TankMaster Finesmith: floater

[12:49] Squirrel Wood: Me => Merchant Outbox

[12:49] MartinRJ Fayray: a UI window that looks similar to inventory

[12:49] Simon Linden: On the LL viewer, it's under the "Me" menu

[12:49] FadeOut Razorfen: yep, mine works too, people started buying stuff more often lol. but i had extreme issues trying to manage my listings, it tends to lag and not respond to my actions

[12:49] TankMaster Finesmith: dray folders and items into the floater and then press the send button

[12:49] Vincent Nacon: oh ok, so I've been looking at wrong place

[12:49] Rex Cronon: u need the new viewer to upload to this "magical" outbox

[12:49] Ima Mechanique: Vincent, it's a tool to prepare in before sending to the server (marketplace)

[12:49] Vincent Nacon: and it's not in Firestorm yet?

[12:50] Vincent Nacon: I know

[12:50] Davido Chrome: Yes it is.

[12:50] TankMaster Finesmith: its in 4.0.1 of firestorm

[12:50] Vincent Nacon: just wasn't sure what it look like or where

[12:50] TankMaster Finesmith: avatar -> merchant outbox...

[12:50] TankMaster Finesmith: top menu

[12:50] Davido Chrome: Second entry in the menu.

[12:50] Vincent Nacon: ah now I have it

[12:50] TankMaster Finesmith: phoenix does not have it

[12:50] Vincent Nacon: ok... that does seem confusing

[12:51] Vincent Nacon: and I can see that happening a lot to some people

[12:51] Rex Cronon: i guess that is how v1.235 dies

[12:51] Flip Idlemind: Well that's what they said about Mesh

[12:51] TankMaster Finesmith: thers only around 1.500 people on v1 i think

[12:51] Flip Idlemind: (I think it should die though)

[12:51] Ima Mechanique: nah, nothing will kil 1.23 for some people ;-)

[12:52] Davido Chrome: Marketplace initilization failed

Initialization with the marketplace failed because of a system or network error. Try again later.

[12:52] Vincent Nacon: 1.23.... let the old dinosaurs die already! Where's the damn meteorite?

[12:52] Sera Lok: i get that a lot due to load on the website. have to try several times sometimes but it eventually works for most

[12:52] Nalates Urriah: The MP is running really slow.

[12:53] Liisa Runo: lets concentrate on fixing all them 4000+ bugs in v3, then we can see if v1 dies

[12:53] Sera Lok: supposedly it was "optimized" over the weekend, but you can't tell

[12:53] Vincent Nacon: yup, because people are miraging their store

[12:53] Vincent Nacon: give it a month or so

[12:53] Qie Niangao: "miraging" ... I like that

[12:53] MartinRJ Fayray: i get 1500 jira-notifications per week Liisa

[12:53] Rex Cronon: it might be a little premature to force everybody to use the outbox cosidering that it is still buggy

[12:54] Davido Chrome: The Lindens are so quiet...

[12:54] MartinRJ Fayray: i doubt there are only 4000+ bugs

[12:54] TankMaster Finesmith: i would expect a bit of load for a while as people check out the new shiny and merchants are busy migrating several million items

[12:54] Vincent Nacon: it's never gonna be easy to mirage over 2 millions users

[12:54] Vincent Nacon: Migrate*

[12:54] Sera Lok: "short term pain, long term gain" per Torley.

[12:55] Christy Mynx: excuse me, I have not attended one of these meetings before, are we allowed to ask questions at the end of the agenda?

[12:55] TankMaster Finesmith: i do think in the long run DD will be bwtter

[12:55] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is almost over

[12:55] TankMaster Finesmith: better*

[12:55] Andrew Linden: Christy, the table is open. Go ahead and ask your questions.

[12:55] Davido Chrome: Christy, yes. And the agenda ended a while ago.

[12:55] TankMaster Finesmith: crysty, feel free to ask your question now

[12:55] Christy Mynx: thank you :)

[12:55] Christy Mynx: The collision event has a caveat: "Smallest repeat rate is approximatively 0.13 seconds." How does the script index multiple object collisions to a particular object? e.g. if for example 5 objects were to collide with one prim and each object was less than 0.13 seconds apart. Does it still queue them in the order they collided?

[12:55] NeoBokrug Elytis: Any ETA for Agni pathfinding beta?

[12:56] Vincent Nacon: no, you can't ask the question! go away! :P

[12:56] Rex Cronon: sometimes these "short pains" stretch for months/years

[12:56] Andrew Linden: Christy, excess collision events just get filtered, I believe. That is, dropped.

[12:56] Liisa Runo: 3992 in the jira at the moment, and LL fix ~4.5bugs/day, so we can calculate that v3 will be ready in about 2 years

[12:56] Christy Mynx: thank you Andrew

[12:57] Andrew Linden: So if you have 5 objects collide with a sixth, all at once, you might not detect all collisions.

[12:57] Flip Idlemind: I suddenly have a really low FPS, with a lot of "Readback Occlusion" time. Does anyone remember what that is?

[12:58] NeoBokrug Elytis: I made a JIRA for it Flip

[12:58] MartinRJ Fayray: and there are about the same number are created everyday, Liisa

[12:58] MartinRJ Fayray: *that

[12:58] Andrew Linden: I would rate the ETA on the pathfinding beta to be "soon". We're currently trying to fix enough known bugs to allow it to be deployed to the grid for volunteers.

[12:58] Davido Chrome: Did you fix the one Falcon found, where scripts dropped the first collision event?

[12:58] Flip Idlemind: Speaking ETA's do you (and I know the answer is no) happen to have an ETA for the Experience Beta?

[12:59] TankMaster Finesmith: experence beta?

[12:59] Andrew Linden: No ETA on that Flip.

[12:59] Andrew Linden: Dunno if that first-collision bug is fixed Davido. Lemme check the commit logs. Falcon may have mentioned it.

[13:00] Davido Chrome: Also, do all the Pathfinding alpha regions run the same server version now?

[13:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group

[13:00] Flip Idlemind: Beta for the Experience Tools that are being used in Linden Realms that I can't technically talk about

[13:00] Vincent Nacon: Flip... stop asking!

[13:00] Flip Idlemind: But I loooove asking!

[13:00] Vincent Nacon: NO!

[13:00] Vincent Nacon: :P

[13:00] Andrew Linden: Davido, are you asking about the versions on aditi or agni?

[13:00] Vincent Nacon: don't make me put you in the corner

[13:01] Rex Cronon: can't blame flip for trying:)

[13:01] Davido Chrome: Beta, which is Aditi, right?

[13:01] Christy Mynx: well this wasn't so scary to attend :)

[13:01] MartinRJ Fayray: me want a JIRA user group meeting

[13:01] Vincent Nacon: nope, not scary... but you should be scared of me

[13:01] Imaze Rhiano: there used to be bug triage

[13:01] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: There used to .. that.

[13:01] Christy Mynx laughs

[13:01] Andrew Linden: Davido, that first collision bug might be fixed. I see a comment about a fix for "collisions lasting only 1 frame were not being reported to scripts"

[13:02] Davido Chrome cheers and kisses!

[13:02] Liisa Runo: and we desperately need user group for SVC stuff and a separate one for land stuff cause there is so many land related stuff

[13:02] Davido Chrome: Uh. I mean, tahnk you!

[13:02] Andrew Linden: Davido, the pathfinding regions on aditi are all running the same code... except for the "wilderness regions" on aditi, which are using older versions similar to what the wilderness regions are using on agni.

[13:03] TankMaster Finesmith: thx for your time and input, Andrew and Simon

[13:03] Davido Chrome: There are wilderness pathfinding regions?

[13:03] Rex Cronon: i think there might not be enogh lindens for all the user groups needed:)

[13:03] Rex Cronon: enough*

[13:03] Liisa Runo: can always hire more, LL got plenty of moneys to spare

[13:03] MartinRJ Fayray: wow

[13:03] Davido Chrome: Plop.

[13:04] Ima Mechanique: hehe that never fails to amuse me ;-)

[13:04] Simon Linden: Thanks everyone for coming today and the good conversation

[13:04] Davido Chrome: Thank you!

[13:04] Liisa Runo: thanks everybody

[13:04] Nalates Urriah: There's a way to end a meeting

[13:04] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Thanks for the fixes in viewmaster, Simon. :)

[13:04] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: And see you Lindens.

[13:04] Christy Mynx: thank you :)

[13:04] MartinRJ Fayray: Goodbye Simon

[13:04] Draconis Neurocam: thanks andrew and simon

[13:04] Qie Niangao: Thanks all, and have fun!

[13:04] Vincent Nacon: aww... I wanted to eat that Mushroom

[13:05] Sera Lok: take care Lindenses

[13:05] MartinRJ Fayray: The mushroom is a lie, Vincent

[13:05] Rex Cronon: tc simon

[13:05] Rex Cronon: tc andrew

[13:05] Vincent Nacon: you mean Cake?

[13:05] Rex Cronon: tc everybody

[13:05] Simon Linden: Bye everyone, take care

[13:05] Vincent Nacon: take care all


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