Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2012.05.18

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List of Speakers

Andrew Linden Ardy Lay Ashiri Sands
Baker Linden Dahlia Trimble Draconis Neurocam
DrFran Babcock Frans Charming Jonathan Yap
Nalates Urriah Rex Cronon Vincent Nacon
Whirly Fizzle xstorm Radek


[16:00] Ardy Lay: Nice entrance, Andrew. ;-)

[16:00] Baker Linden: Thanks Jonathan, You'll also be happy then to know I fixed another issue you talked about last meeting. It's not live yet, though.

[16:00] Andrew Linden: thx

[16:01] Baker Linden: the self-mute issue

[16:01] Jonathan Yap: oh, very nice!

[16:01] Ardy Lay: Baker, I have had two residents stuck in my block list for a while now.

[16:01] Vincent Nacon: like he's gonna fix that right now

[16:02] Vincent Nacon: muhaha!

[16:02] Ardy Lay: I was pertty much told "Hope you don't need to talk to them."

[16:02] Andrew Linden: Yes, everybody please welcom Baker Linden.

[16:02] Andrew Linden: He's a new C++ developer on the server-side.

[16:02] Vincent Nacon: have a seat, Baker

[16:02] Baker Linden: lol. Is there a JIRA for that somewhere?

[16:02] Ardy Lay: Sure is. I'll dig it up.

[16:02] Andrew Linden: and has been fixing bugs for a few weeks now.

[16:02] Jonathan Yap: Ardy, I wonder if the auto-unmute function would help in that case (probably not)

[16:02] Nalates Urriah: A new guy... and we have to be nice again I suppose... Hi Baker!

[16:02] Vincent Nacon: Simon's around or is he on vacation again?

[16:03] Baker Linden: it'll only auto-unmute if you ended up muting yourself

[16:03] Andrew Linden: So, if you have any suggestions for bugs you think Baker should take a swing at, please bring them up.

[16:03] Jonathan Yap: Baker, there is a function in the viewer that auto-unmutes other people under certain circumstances

[16:03] Andrew Linden: Simon is out today.

[16:03] Baker Linden: I have no idea

[16:03] Baker Linden: I haven't been in the viewer much

[16:03] Andrew Linden: And I'll be out all next week.

[16:04] Vincent Nacon: so next week is canceled?

[16:04] Andrew Linden: No, next week should still be happening.

[16:04] Vincent Nacon: ah ok

[16:04] Vincent Nacon: any news today?

[16:04] Andrew Linden: Simon should be around. I'll send him an email to make sure he knows I'll be out.

[16:04] Rex Cronon: hello everybody

[16:04] Vincent Nacon: heya Rex

[16:05] Rex Cronon: hi vincent

[16:05] Andrew Linden: Baker has more news than I do.

[16:05] Baker Linden: I suppose. I have a list of fixes I've made for... whenever they get tested and released :)

[16:05] Andrew Linden: I've been cleaning up some pathfinding stuff, in particular how to and when to compute the navmesh for surfaces under the water table.

[16:06] Andrew Linden: Baker, go ahead and list the jira numbers, if you remember them.

[16:06] Baker Linden: SVC-7917 (self-muting) is no longer possible, and the check is done sim-side for older viewers

[16:06] JIRA-helper:

[#SVC-7917] Please automatically unmute avatars who have muted themselves, and prevent this from occuring server-side.

[16:06] Baker Linden: SVC-7760

[16:06] JIRA-helper:

[#SVC-7760] Large object instant messages can corrupt returned object location URL making it impossible to determine the object's location.

[16:06] Baker Linden: SVC-7793

[16:06] JIRA-helper:

[#SVC-7793] Scripted agents can't abandon land on private estates

[16:06] Baker Linden: SVC-7525

[16:06] JIRA-helper:

[#SVC-7525] Selected objects move when a new keyframe motion is started

[16:07] Andrew Linden: These are all going into a maintenance project, but it is probably another week or two before we'll bundle it up for QA in preparation for RC.

[16:08] Baker Linden: These probably won't be out for the next maintenance project

[16:08] Ardy Lay: Baker, the one I was asking about: VWR-27907 moved to EXP-1859 moced to MAINT-547

[16:08] Baker Linden: we have a lot of fixes already for the QA guys on that one

[16:08] Vincent Nacon: about SVC-7525, how is that fixed?

[16:08] Vincent Nacon: the setframedmotion

[16:08] Ardy Lay: It's now hidden from me.

[16:09] Baker Linden: I just added some other checks sim-side to see if the object should freeze when it's selected.

[16:09] Vincent Nacon: and what about its motion's time?

[16:09] Vincent Nacon: is that frozen too?

[16:09] Vincent Nacon: or in a way... paused?

[16:10] Baker Linden: Yeah. It stops the animation from happening.

[16:10] Baker Linden: it's basically in a paused state so you can move it around with the manipulators and such

[16:10] Vincent Nacon: and does that update its position to resume in its new position?

[16:11] Baker Linden: It should.

[16:11] Jonathan Yap: What happens if a non-owner selects it?

[16:11] Vincent Nacon: because I recall it would snap back to its orignal position when trying to move it

[16:11] Baker Linden: yeah, I fixed that

[16:11] Baker Linden: I was getting annoyed by that

[16:11] Vincent Nacon: muhaha! ok good

[16:11] Ardy Lay: Hehe

[16:11] Frans Charming: Nice

[16:11] Vincent Nacon: and good question Jonathan

[16:12] Baker Linden: Jonathan, I'm not sure what happens, honestly. I'm pretty sure it won't

[16:12] Jonathan Yap: In the past we have had trouble from people selecting things and stopping them

[16:12] Baker Linden: it should only freeze when an owner selects it

[16:12] Vincent Nacon: not even sure if they should or shouldn't able to stop them

[16:12] Baker Linden: or when the owner selects it. I'm still getting used to how things work

[16:13] Andrew Linden: ... or if you are sitting on it then you can select and freeze

[16:13] Ardy Lay: Owner of object, seated on object, owner of land object is over?

[16:13] Vincent Nacon: I'm sure this will come back up again about either they should able to stop it or not, because greifers could abuse it

[16:14] Andrew Linden: Hrm... good question. Lemme check that "object is on your land" thing...

[16:14] Baker Linden: Yeah. I fixed it while (hopefully) retaining the existing functionality

[16:15] Andrew Linden: Yeah, it looks like EstateManagers can select and freeze objects in the region

[16:15] Andrew Linden: and parcel owners can select and freeze objects on their parcel

[16:15] Andrew Linden: er... land owners

[16:16] Ardy Lay: Thanks

[16:16] Andrew Linden: Ok, so Baker is looking for what to fix next.

[16:16] Andrew Linden: Anyone have some suggestions?

[16:16] Vincent Nacon: not new features

[16:16] Draconis Neurocam: if only he worked on the viewer

[16:16] Vincent Nacon: right?

[16:16] Frans Charming: lol

[16:16] Ardy Lay: Baker, the one I was asking about: VWR-27907 moved to EXP-1859 moced to MAINT-547

[16:16] Baker Linden: Probably not anything new, Vincent

[16:17] Nalates Urriah: Appearance as XML?

[16:17] Andrew Linden: Feature ideas are not completely off limits.

[16:17] Baker Linden: oh right, let me take a look at that

[16:17] Vincent Nacon: yeah, hmm

[16:17] Andrew Linden: but small easy features

[16:17] Baker Linden: I mean, I'd like suggestions on future ideas, definitely

[16:17] Nalates Urriah: I'll find JIRA #

[16:17] Rex Cronon: i think i have one:) fix it so that people can be killed when sitting in damage enables sims:)

[16:17] Vincent Nacon: small easy? ... but but..

[16:17] Rex Cronon: enabled*

[16:17] Draconis Neurocam: are these limited to the server baker?

[16:17] Draconis Neurocam: the things to fix?

[16:18] Jonathan Yap: I have one, currently filed as vwr-28027 (which might need some rewording to make clear what is needed). Basically there are 2 ways names can be serached for in the People Chooser and they return different results. I think Oz sent an email around about this the other day.

[16:18] JIRA-helper:

[#VWR-28027] an attempt to ban an FAILED due to SL's FAILURE to link to avatar name

[16:18] Vincent Nacon: I think there are more thing to update than fix minor bug

[16:18] Andrew Linden: For the most part Draconis, yes server-side.

[16:18] Vincent Nacon: but yeah, I'll think of something

[16:19] Baker Linden: Ardy, I'll take a look at that next week. Seems similar to the self-mute problem

[16:19] Ardy Lay: Thanks!

[16:19] Nalates Urriah: JIRa is being funky...

[16:19] Ardy Lay: I have another one that is land related that got batted around for a while then lost in a storm drain if you interested.

[16:20] Vincent Nacon: funky? time to bring in the disco ball and hit it!

[16:20] Baker Linden: Draconis, I'd be happy to look at most anything, but I'm still getting used to the codebase, so I'd prefer to stay in the sim for now.

[16:20] Nalates Urriah: VWR-23983

[16:20] JIRA-helper:

[#VWR-23983] "Appearance to XML" not creating a XML file on my computer

[16:21] Vincent Nacon: use Firestorm

[16:21] Baker Linden: y'all sure like viewer bugs :P

[16:21] Ardy Lay: SCR-133 is VWR-23393, somebody cloned it.

[16:21] JIRA-helper:

[#SCR-133] Script Info reporting on discontiguous parcels is not working as expected.

[16:21] JIRA-helper:

[#VWR-23393] Viewer reports script info for the wrong parcel, in some cases

[16:21] Jonathan Yap: My bug was only mislabeled, it's really a server issue

[16:23] Andrew Linden: Right, VWR-28027 is definitely fixable on the server-side, but it is a design problem with the avatar name-picker UI system

[16:23] Baker Linden: ahh yes, I see it. I'll see what I can do with that as well.

[16:23] Baker Linden: yeah

[16:23] Vincent Nacon: I think I got one for ya

[16:23] Vincent Nacon: not sure if it's viewer or server

[16:23] Andrew Linden: the name picker will not include people who have been suspended from SL

[16:23] Andrew Linden: but in some cases you definitely want to be able to pick them

[16:23] DrFran Babcock: oooh

[16:24] Ardy Lay: I suppose that stops the inflow of abuse reports.

[16:24] Andrew Linden: such as when trying to delete all their stuff in your region/land

[16:24] Vincent Nacon: but when using sit-teleporter to move over 1000m in the same sim, your avatar would end up in 0,0,0 corner of the sim for short moment.

[16:24] Ashiri Sands: using posjump?

[16:25] Ardy Lay: Those things need to go away.

[16:25] Vincent Nacon: you could say that, yes but even with the new changes

[16:25] Rex Cronon: can't their profiles be still shown but have big banner that says "banned"?

[16:25] Andrew Linden: yeah I'm not sure about that one either Vincent. If I had to guess I'd say it was viewer, but it might be a viewer-server misunderstanding

[16:25] Ardy Lay: AH, still happens with the new function? Shucks

[16:25] Draconis Neurocam: that doesnt happen if people use llsetregionpos to my knowledge

[16:25] Ashiri Sands: old hacks can be trouble

[16:25] Vincent Nacon: yeah I think it has to do with server sending its data packet too fast

[16:26] Frans Charming: I will have to try that out Draconis, thanls for mentioning it.

[16:26] Andrew Linden: in theory yes Rex, we could show suspended accounts in search

[16:26] Andrew Linden: I don't remember (and I wonder if anyone around still remembers) why that search filter was made

[16:27] Rex Cronon: u could even makes somthing like a "wall of shame" that show who did what...

[16:27] Andrew Linden: it should be revisited, I think

[16:27] Ardy Lay: Sometime search just fails to list accounts that are not suspended.

[16:27] Ardy Lay: So it's kinda a guessing game when thathappens.

[16:27] Jonathan Yap: Ardy, do you mean in the People Chooser (not the web page)

[16:27] Andrew Linden: I wonder if the server even knows the context in wich the name pick request comes through (for ban, script cleanup, or add to estate lists)

[16:28] Andrew Linden: I doubt it, actually.

[16:28] Ardy Lay: I mean that big ugly mess that pops up when I hit control F.

[16:28] xstorm Radek: search is having problems i can say yes it has that problem too

[16:28] Ardy Lay: THat's not going to be an Engine Room issue though.

[16:28] Andrew Linden: Well, actually I'm talking about the name-picker that shows up when you want to add someone to your parcel access list, for example.

[16:29] Andrew Linden: I is a general purpose tool used in several places in the UI

[16:29] Andrew Linden: s/^I /It/

[16:29] Ardy Lay: Land access list editr uses it, I think.

[16:29] Ardy Lay: editor

[16:29] Ardy Lay: And the AR tool

[16:29] Andrew Linden: right

[16:29] xstorm Radek: oh i know that then the estate system and god mode will have the same problem if thats true

[16:30] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over

[16:30] xstorm Radek: has simon been removed ?

[16:30] Vincent Nacon: muhaha! no

[16:30] Vincent Nacon: he's on vacation again

[16:30] xstorm Radek: oh ok

[16:30] Ardy Lay: Hmm.... I always assumed that suspended accounts were not listed to prevent abuse reports from being filed against them.

[16:30] Andrew Linden: No, Simon is on vacation. Taking a long weekend.

[16:31] xstorm Radek: lucky man

[16:31] Andrew Linden: Oh right, Simon usually makes a pilgrimage to the Maker Faire. He must be there already.

[16:31] Andrew Linden: It is happening at the San Mateo Fairgrounds this weekend.

[16:31] xstorm Radek: oh befor i forget that user look up may be in some way part of the stuck avatar system again

[16:31] Vincent Nacon: only if I lived there... sigh...

[16:32] DrFran Babcock: yes, living on SL time might be nice

[16:32] Andrew Linden: "stuck avatar system"?

[16:32] Ardy Lay: Hehe

[16:32] xstorm Radek: yes peoples avatars stuck at log off but not logging all the way out

[16:32] Vincent Nacon: ah

[16:33] xstorm Radek: makes phantom avatars so they can not log back in

[16:33] Ardy Lay: It has evolved from a bug to a documented system. ;-)

[16:33] Vincent Nacon: haven't thought it affected search that way too

[16:33] Ardy Lay: I haven't had that heppen to me in a looong time.

[16:33] xstorm Radek: i had to do cleanup of them to day last time was 4 years back

[16:34] Vincent Nacon: it just seem kinda ignore any request done the said avatar

[16:34] Andrew Linden: So, is that bug still happening?

[16:34] Vincent Nacon: only way to deal with it was to restart the sim

[16:34] xstorm Radek: yes started again

[16:34] Andrew Linden: ah hrm

[16:34] Draconis Neurocam: is there a server side reason why when a prim is selected the parcel boundry highlights, out of curiousity

[16:34] Andrew Linden: No Draconis, that is a viewer bug or quirk.

[16:35] Draconis Neurocam: ah alright

[16:35] xstorm Radek: had to bug gteam for avatar bump

[16:35] Jonathan Yap: It is claimed to be a feature, so you do not put things outside of your parcel

[16:35] Andrew Linden: Well, the stuck avatar problem is probably a good mystery for Baker to investigate.

[16:35] xstorm Radek: im still thinking its a database bug that hangs it in some way

[16:36] Andrew Linden: So if anyone here has it happen to them they could try pinging Backer directly.

[16:36] Andrew Linden: No Xstorm, I don't think it is a database problem. It feels like a simulator problem.

[16:36] Baker Linden: Do we have a Jira for that?

[16:36] xstorm Radek: is baker new ?

[16:36] Ashiri Sands: Happened recently, or in the distant past?

[16:36] Vincent Nacon: yup, a newbie linden

[16:36] xstorm Radek: lol

[16:36] Baker Linden: Very new

[16:37] DrFran Babcock: and very eager. :-)

[16:37] Andrew Linden: Only report recent events. In this case, one that is happening when it is reported.

[16:37] xstorm Radek: well if the database is gettinga inventory call at time of logging off it can hang the server logging out the avatar

[16:38] Ardy Lay: The definition of "recent" varies with the age of the reporter. Care to define it for us?

[16:38] Whirly Fizzle: Old JIRA is SVC-6193

[16:38] JIRA-helper:

[#SVC-6193] Avatar gets stuck in world after user logs out

[16:38] Andrew Linden: oh right xstorm, I forgot about that behavior

[16:38] xstorm Radek: every time a avatar logs off it sends update data

[16:38] xstorm Radek: ;)

[16:38] Andrew Linden: that is an attachment upload problem

[16:38] xstorm Radek: thats why i was a ibm dev on LL dev island lol

[16:38] Andrew Linden: but not database per-se, but the simulator host's connection to it

[16:39] Ashiri Sands: I'll try to deliberately get an alt stuck on logout =^_^=

[16:39] xstorm Radek: im a old fart lol

[16:39] Vincent Nacon: I believe that also affect the friend list too, same way with the attachments

[16:39] xstorm Radek: yes

[16:40] Vincent Nacon: attachment + avatar's texture and shape

[16:40] xstorm Radek: may just need a other step to check the avatar for timeout

[16:40] Ardy Lay: It's kinda odd to login and see yourself standing in the neighboring region. Same bug? Again, hasn't happened to me for years.

[16:40] xstorm Radek: lol

[16:40] Andrew Linden: yes, could be the same bug Ardy.

[16:40] xstorm Radek: better then the old black hole of death

[16:41] Vincent Nacon: I haven't been able to see another avatar of myself but i've seen more clones of my friends going through those issue

[16:41] DrFran Babcock: or being ruthed

[16:41] xstorm Radek: no black hole of death was back in 2004 when a user was stuck off world

[16:42] xstorm Radek: and lost all inventory data

[16:42] Jonathan Yap: Andrew, at some point you will need to introduce Baker to The Corn Field

[16:42] Baker Linden: I'll dig around JIRA and see if I can't find a repro case for that

[16:42] xstorm Radek: good luck

[16:43] Baker Linden: lol, thanks

[16:43] Ardy Lay: Might also keep an eye out for regions with more than a few hundred pending downloads.

[16:43] xstorm Radek: some of that has been removed do to system jira updates

[16:43] Ardy Lay: I suppose you have a reporter for that.

[16:44] Ardy Lay: When I see that show up in the region statistics I just know I am about to get disconnected.

[16:44] Andrew Linden: Baker has a lot to learn, but he's well on his way.

[16:44] xstorm Radek: lol

[16:44] Andrew Linden: For example, I'll bet he didn't understand that statement about getting "ruthed"

[16:44] Vincent Nacon: if he falls behind, break out the leather whip

[16:44] DrFran Babcock: welcome to the best darned VW in the universe, Baker

[16:44] Baker Linden: You are correct, Andrew

[16:44] Baker Linden: thanks DrFran

[16:44] xstorm Radek: i did not restart your region its a gteam or support person

[16:44] Whirly Fizzle: lol he'll meet Ruth soon enough

[16:44] DrFran Babcock: Or be Ruth

[16:45] DrFran Babcock: now it's just a boring ol puffball.

[16:45] Vincent Nacon: Dahila is Ruthed to me

[16:45] xstorm Radek: some one n waterhead was trying to blame me for a restart one time lol

[16:45] DrFran Babcock: yes, you are correct Vincent, wow

[16:45] Ardy Lay: VWR-19558

[16:45] JIRA-helper:

[#VWR-19558] FJ and Howard are Women

[16:45] Vincent Nacon: oh wait... n/m she shape popped up now

[16:45] Dahlia Trimble: OMG *does vanity rebake*

[16:45] Vincent Nacon: her*

[16:45] DrFran Babcock: hehe

[16:45] Frans Charming: Ruth is the name of the default avatar, sometimes you avatar doesn;t load correctly and then you are 'ruther'd because the default has loaded.

[16:46] DrFran Babcock: thanks, Frans

[16:46] Nalates Urriah: ou rez'd Dahlia

[16:46] xstorm Radek: ? ruthed i hope not

[16:46] Dahlia Trimble: :D

[16:46] xstorm Radek: that was removed

[16:46] DrFran Babcock: but even guys have breasts when they are ruthed.

[16:46] Vincent Nacon: she's fine now, her shape popped in before I could mention it

[16:46] Rex Cronon: aren't we now just clouds?

[16:47] xstorm Radek: yes justclouds

[16:47] Vincent Nacon: depends on what setting and viewer you use, Rex

[16:47] DrFran Babcock: dist in the wind

[16:47] DrFran Babcock: hehe, *dust

[16:47] xstorm Radek: or white egg

[16:47] Ashiri Sands: Especially the viewer and machine I find

[16:48] Ardy Lay: Viewer has a Ruth Timer in it?

[16:48] Ardy Lay watches log

[16:48] Ashiri Sands: I often see ruthed avs on the laptop

[16:48] Andrew Linden: Several bugs have been mentioned today, but not as many as I expected.

[16:48] xstorm Radek: i think only a old viewer may show as ruth

[16:49] xstorm Radek: no servers are looking good

[16:49] Ardy Lay: There is a debug setting for that, xstorm.

[16:49] Jonathan Yap: I bet Baker will not fix them all by Tuesday

[16:49] Ardy Lay: RenderUnloadedAvatar

[16:49] Andrew Linden: Have many of the annoying bugs been fixed? or are we all just such old timers that the bugs don't bother us anymore?

[16:49] Vincent Nacon: both

[16:49] xstorm Radek: oh yesforgot about the test avatar system

[16:49] Ashiri Sands: And there are the minions for finding and fixing viewer bugs =^_^=

[16:50] Draconis Neurocam: honestly andrew, most of my issues are either with the viewer or new script functions i want

[16:50] Ardy Lay: WHat was that one that got mentioned every day? SVC-22?

[16:50] JIRA-helper:

[#SVC-22] Vehicles crossing region borders aren't always treated as vehicles and can get incorrectly returned if the destination parcel is no-entry or parcel-full

[16:50] Vincent Nacon: yeah same here

[16:50] Vincent Nacon: I even came up new idea for Mesh developer to work on something simple

[16:50] Andrew Linden: Hrm... I thought we had made progress on SVC-22, but maybe not.

[16:50] xstorm Radek: to use 3ds or obj lol

[16:50] xstorm Radek: joking

[16:51] Vincent Nacon: don't make me slap you

[16:51] Rex Cronon: it has been kind of hard to make things change. thefore we had to get good at ignoring the bugs:(

[16:51] Vincent Nacon shakes his fist

[16:51] xstorm Radek: nyx will kill me

[16:51] Vincent Nacon: of course

[16:51] Jonathan Yap: Andrew, how about the bug with attachements for group notices not working after some time?

[16:52] Whirly Fizzle: SVC-7129

[16:52] JIRA-helper:

[#SVC-7129] Attachments to group notices malfunction after some time

[16:52] xstorm Radek: did that not get fix ?

[16:52] Baker Linden: I'll see about that one as well, Ardy. I haven't done anything concerning cross-region issues yet though

[16:52] Jonathan Yap: Whirly, that is a complex issue, there are server and viewer components to it

[16:52] Vincent Nacon: wb Dahila.... now she's Ruthed again

[16:52] Whirly Fizzle: I know :(

[16:52] Ardy Lay: Baker, good luck with that one. It's so old it has tenure and deep toots.

[16:53] Jonathan Yap: I wrote up a long memo and sent it to Grumpity some time ago

[16:53] Ardy Lay: roots

[16:53] Andrew Linden: Baker, if you look into SVC-22, be sure to ask Kelly or Simon about the current state of that one.

[16:53] Baker Linden: Will do

[16:53] Baker Linden: I'll also check out 7129

[16:53] xstorm Radek: kelly is a good one for that

[16:53] Jonathan Yap: Baker, if you look into the group notices one ask Grumpity for the long email of analysis I sent her

[16:53] Vincent Nacon: yeah that one could be easy to do

[16:53] Vincent Nacon: but might be hard to find the cause

[16:54] Jonathan Yap: Also, Kelly will have some ideas on that, he was the last to work in that area (years ago)

[16:54] Ardy Lay: Probably mutated XML somewhere. ;-)

[16:54] Baker Linden: ok, thanks Jonathan.

[16:54] Whirly Fizzle: SVC-4968 is highly annoying too, It makes management of large groups impossible

[16:54] JIRA-helper:

[#SVC-4968] Group won't load - too many members

[16:54] xstorm Radek: may be

[16:54] Vincent Nacon: surprised we don't have a cap on membership limit

[16:55] Dahlia Trimble: I think Baker's priorities should be (1) make a bear, (2) fix group chat

[16:55] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is almost over

[16:55] Vincent Nacon: no bear!

[16:55] Frans Charming: Hahahaha

[16:55] DrFran Babcock: I agree with dahlia

[16:55] xstorm Radek: lol

[16:55] Ardy Lay: Heh, there are some fun tests to run on that large groups. I have gotten 25 megabit per second packet bursts when trying to see membership lists.

[16:55] DrFran Babcock: want bear

[16:55] Jonathan Yap: Or at least fill out his profile :P

[16:55] xstorm Radek: he can do a bear later

[16:55] Frans Charming: I think Baker should make a Gear.

[16:55] DrFran Babcock: and avoid becoming ruthed

[16:55] xstorm Radek: lol

[16:55] Vincent Nacon: No bear, no gear, no tear!

[16:55] xstorm Radek: poor man

[16:55] Ashiri Sands: Group chat issues will always be with us, surely?

[16:56] Whirly Fizzle: Get a few people trying to load a large group on a region & the region goes offline :D

[16:56] xstorm Radek: group chat can be a simple buffer over run at times

[16:56] Ardy Lay: Whirly, yes it does. Oz and I did that to Hippotropolis some time ago.

[16:56] Andrew Linden: I don't think Baker is up to the task of fixing group chat yet.

[16:56] Vincent Nacon: has there any reason to see a list of members in the group? I mean only time I need to was to kick or promote a member

[16:57] Draconis Neurocam: i think they are suggesting the way group info is sent to the client rather than the chat specifically

[16:57] Draconis Neurocam: for large ones

[16:57] Vincent Nacon: so maybe ditch the list and just go with search input?

[16:57] Jonathan Yap: Maybe the member list should not be requested automatically--have a button to populate it

[16:57] Ardy Lay: Vincent, could be

[16:57] Vincent Nacon: or that

[16:58] xstorm Radek: i have seen timeout calls on group

[16:58] Ashiri Sands: Moderating a group requires loading the list of online members and that can often be large

[16:58] Ardy Lay: I joined a group with over 90,000 members and boom

[16:58] Whirly Fizzle: Ots possible to eject directly from the group chatters list. But you cant eject someone who doesnt have the chat open or change their role

[16:58] Andrew Linden: Group management should be moved off of the simulator relay system and onto HTTP services

[16:58] Dahlia Trimble: what group was that?

[16:58] Rex Cronon: the member list could give pages of 100items per page

[16:58] Vincent Nacon: over 90,000? what the hell?

[16:58] Frans Charming: the group member call should just have a limit.

[16:58] xstorm Radek: i think there was a group limit at one time do to that old bug has it been fix ?

[16:59] Frans Charming: and a next button.

[16:59] Whirly Fizzle: Open collar has about 140k members

[16:59] Vincent Nacon: surprised that allowed to work at all

[16:59] Ardy Lay: dahlia, the one Oz and I were looking at was Open Collar

[16:59] xstorm Radek: limit may need to be put in place again

[17:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group

[17:00] Vincent Nacon: I think some missed the Dragonball Z pun but anyway...

[17:00] Frans Charming: Andrew is moving group mamangement to HTTP Services, something Baker can do? ;)

[17:00] Ardy Lay: Well, I would guess the simulator hosts are sending a hell of a lot of UDP packets in response to those requests.

[17:00] Rex Cronon: i would like to see how group chat works in a group with 20k loggin users:)

[17:00] Andrew Linden: No, not yet Frans, I think.

[17:00] Frans Charming: Ok, because that sounds like a good plan.

[17:01] Ardy Lay: The viewer starts spewing out of order and invalid header errors

[17:01] xstorm Radek: if i remember right estate systems had group limits and so do land lists and that was server side limits

[17:02] xstorm Radek: if groups go past that limit you will make bugs and problems

[17:02] Andrew Linden: Hrm... I wonder if the Group management stuff could be moved to a web service on the sim host as a prototype, and then later migrated to a proper services stack.

[17:02] Andrew Linden: That would be easier to attempt because then we don't have to stand up the hardware first

[17:03] Andrew Linden: and no need to coordinate across teams

[17:03] Vincent Nacon: ahh the meeting is over, btw. Just noticed the clock

[17:03] xstorm Radek: that i think can be done andrew

[17:03] DrFran Babcock: awww, this was a very informative one.

[17:03] DrFran Babcock: Welcome again, Baker. Look forward to seeing you again.

[17:03] Vincent Nacon: aye

[17:03] Vincent Nacon: welcome aboard!

[17:03] Ardy Lay: Dashboard just lists group names and member counts at the moment.

[17:03] Andrew Linden: I wrote some web services that live on the sim host for pathfinding (downloading the navmesh data)

[17:04] Baker Linden: Thanks! I'll be joining these meetings when I can. I'm definitely looking forward to the next one!

[17:04] Andrew Linden: and now that I've done that it seems not too hard to move a single operation in a similar way

[17:04] Vincent Nacon: be sure to play with your dashboard on JIRA to define your daily search to pick up which bugs to work on

[17:04] xstorm Radek: it mayhelp a lot of problems

[17:04] xstorm Radek: getting pas old limits

[17:04] Dahlia Trimble: Welcome Baker and dont forget to make a bear :D

[17:04] Vincent Nacon: Baker*

[17:04] Andrew Linden: although in the long term we probably want centralized services to take advantage of caching possibilities

[17:05] Jonathan Yap: Baker, it is good to have you "aboard"

[17:05] Andrew Linden: otherwise the database becomes the bottleneck and trouble spot

[17:05] Baker Linden: haha, I'll get around to the bear -- may not be for a bit though.

[17:05] xstorm Radek: yes

[17:05] Andrew Linden: Thanks for coming.

[17:05] Rex Cronon: tc andrew, baker

[17:05] xstorm Radek: no thank you

[17:05] Baker Linden: Thanks everyone!

[17:05] Rex Cronon: tc everybody

[17:05] Nalates Urriah: bye

[17:05] Frans Charming: Thank you Baker and Andrew! :)

[17:06] Rex Cronon: and have a nice day

[17:06] Jonathan Yap: Baker, if you need help with building just ask--I bet someone in this group would explain the more advanced things to you

[17:06] Dahlia Trimble: BEAR BEAR BEAR!!!

[17:06] Vincent Nacon: no bear!

[17:06] Vincent Nacon: I'm gonna have to slap that lady

[17:06] Vincent Nacon: muhaha!


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