Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2012.08.07

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List of Speakers

Arawn Spitteler Baker Linden
Darien Caldwell Melvin Starbrook
Motor Loon Nalates Urriah
Sahkolihaa Contepomi Simon Linden
Sonya Haight Yuzuru Jewell


[11:56] Simon Linden: Hello - yeah, I'm here :)

[11:56] Motor Loon: °?°

[11:56] Darien Caldwell: no, preemptively late

[11:56] Motor Loon: ah yes, clever!

[11:57] Motor Loon: just enough time to get coffee

[11:57] Darien Caldwell: darn, I just noticed the note saying kelly is out

[11:57] Darien Caldwell: he was kind of the one I wanted to address

[11:57] Darien Caldwell: no offense Simon ;p

[11:58] Motor Loon: dont worry Simon... I'm sure we can find someone with a crush on you too...

[11:59] Darien Caldwell: well It's just that Kelly always seems to be the one who addresses HTTP issues

[11:59] Darien Caldwell: and Scripting issues

[11:59] Darien Caldwell: but it doesn't mean he's the only one who can help I guess

[12:00] Meeter: Welcome to the Server User Group

[12:01] Simon Linden: Hi everyone - we can get started. Andrew is busy today, so I'm the host ... drinks are down on the deck, food's on the bbq, make yourselves at home

[12:03] Simon Linden: Today we rolled out the pathfinding branch from the Magnum RC to the main grid. There have been more crashes than we'd like to see, but the rate looks like it's dropping so we're going to watch and see what's going on

[12:04] Motor Loon: I saw a few sims refusing to sync with their neighbors after the restarts... but otherwise it looked ok

[12:04] Simon Linden: I'm not sure what this will mean for tomorrow's RC updates, and if I told you anything now it could well change this afternoon

[12:05] Simon Linden: That's it for my news ... Baker, did you have anything?

[12:05] Baker Linden: yes, but I'm in the middle of writing it

[12:05] Motor Loon: doh... now he has to start all over

[12:06] Darien Caldwell: lol

[12:06] Simon Linden: ok, we can come back ... does anyone have a topic to bring up?

[12:06] Motor Loon: °?°

[12:06] Baker Linden: no, I write it in an external program so I can copy/paste

[12:06] Darien Caldwell: Give him a break, he's Fresh out of the Linden oven ;p

[12:06] Motor Loon: Im just so happy PF finally made it thru RC that I cant possibly whine about anything today!

[12:06] Simon Linden: He's been through a few trials by fire already

[12:06] Baker Linden: I've had to rewrite it before, so I learned that external editing is the best way :P

[12:06] Darien Caldwell: /rimshot

[12:07] Darien Caldwell: If nobody else has anything to raise, I do

[12:07] Darien Caldwell: it's brief

[12:07] Simon Linden: Keep your fingers crossed, Motor :)

[12:07] Simon Linden: OK Darien, go ahead

[12:07] Motor Loon: they always are °?°

[12:07] Darien Caldwell: With the release of llSetContentType() (, Using Shared Media for HUDs is finally viable.

[12:07] Darien Caldwell: Already, creators are beginning to take advantage of this exciting new (to SL) method of creating interfaces for their in-world scripted objects. The advatages include better controls, less script load, and a richer, more engaging experience.

[12:07] Darien Caldwell: However, There are two major stubling blocks in the way of wide adoption, and I have outlined them separately in these two JIRAs:

[12:07] JIRA-helper: [#VWR-29448] HTML (Shared Media) HUD objects exhibit Unintuitive Focus and Control Behavior

[12:07] JIRA-helper: [#VWR-29449] HTML (Shared Media) HUD objects Behave Badly in conjunction with the Mouse Scroll Wheel

[12:08] Darien Caldwell: I can only ask that Linden Lab please commit some scant resources to help resolve or mitigate these issues.

[12:08] Darien Caldwell: That's it :)

[12:08] Motor Loon: sounds like very good points there

[12:09] Darien Caldwell: The JIRAs have videos illustrating the issues in detail

[12:09] Darien Caldwell: as well as included the script for the hud used in the example, try yourself

[12:10] Simon Linden: hmm, I'm reading and they look interesting. It certainly would be nice to polish that up and make it more usable

[12:10] Darien Caldwell: yes, I don't see them as being very hard to solve

[12:10] Motor Loon: certainly a massive massive potential in this feature

[12:10] Darien Caldwell: just needs someone willing to put in the effort

[12:10] Sonya Haight: Motor are you wearing a tent?

[12:10] Darien Caldwell: lol

[12:11] Motor Loon: yes

[12:11] Sonya Haight: I swear its moving

[12:11] Darien Caldwell: maybe it's the wind

[12:11] Motor Loon: I keep an elephant inside it... thats why its moving a little bit

[12:11] Darien Caldwell: :o)

[12:11] Simon Linden: I know Kelly had a demo HTML hud a while back, but I haven't seen that type of thing getting much use

[12:11] Motor Loon: YET simon

[12:11] Darien Caldwell: well, I know of two creators with them on the market now

[12:11] Motor Loon: ...yet!

[12:11] Darien Caldwell: one of them me :)

[12:12] Darien Caldwell: and many more are getting into it, there's been a lot of interest here:

[12:12] Simon Linden: oh, that's great to hear. Making a reasonable UI on a HUD without so many scripts and prims would be great

[12:12] Darien Caldwell: exactly

[12:12] Motor Loon: I could imagine interactive-product-manuals would become a big hit without the need to open external webbrowsers etc

[12:12] Sonya Haight: so with the issues fixed more will use it?

[12:12] Darien Caldwell: the push for better use of script resources is a big driver of this

[12:12] Simon Linden: I have one on now that I like but really boosts my script count -- lots of little scripts for button management

[12:13] Darien Caldwell: But customer reaction is, spotty

[12:13] Darien Caldwell: because of these issues

[12:14] Darien Caldwell: it leads to a lot of frustration when they don't behave as expected

[12:14] Melvin Starbrook: tala all

[12:15] Motor Loon: would be nice if possible that you didnt need to "click back inworld" after having interacted with a HUD

[12:15] Simon Linden: I'll make sure Kelly sees these -- he definitely would like that to work better. They sound like viewer issues, however

[12:15] Simon Linden: yeah, focus control is really tough to get right sometimes

[12:15] Nalates Urriah: May be let Oz know too

[12:16] Darien Caldwell: yes I agree, it's mostly viewer, but I felt this was the best fit, being 'scripting' based and the functions being scripted functions

[12:16] Darien Caldwell: I'll try raising it with Oz as well :)

[12:17] Motor Loon: a bit of both camps kinda

[12:17] Simon Linden: Jonathan might be interested in that one, but it looks like he's not here today

[12:18] Darien Caldwell: summer vacations I would guess :)

[12:18] Darien Caldwell: weather is great here in NorCal right now

[12:18] Simon Linden: In any case, those are good ideas. Thanks for bringing it up

[12:18] Darien Caldwell: no problem, thanks for listening

[12:19] Simon Linden: yeah, the weather is great but getting hot ... hitting near 100 F today

[12:19] Melvin Starbrook: here are cocktails :))

[12:19] Favorites Drink Tray: Enjoy your Strawberry Daiquiri,Melvin Starbrook, so sweet and fruity!

[12:20] Simon Linden: Are there other topics for today?

[12:20] Sonya Haight: anything else on the rolling restarts? are they all finished, less crashes anything?

[12:21] Baker Linden: I'm in the middle of debugging the server code.

For announcements, I'm pushing legacy viewer support to the back burner.

The new group data format is similar enough that some things should show up

in the group list (I haven't tested that yet), but not everything

(currently group roles, and potentially other pieces of information).

I could also be lying to myself about that as well; it may be totally incompatible --

I'll have to wait and find out when I get to the viewer side of this. This is

why I'm pulling it off the list -- if it works, fantastic; if it doesn't, then

it doesn't.

I think it's not worth the time spent to support legacy viewers; I'd rather

ship the fix, allow TPV to support the new format and allow people to actually use

this feature. It's just a matter of reformatting the data, but that extra work

means more time spent on it and not delivering the feature.

I doubt it's going to be that big of an issue.

[12:21] Motor Loon: says resolved on gridstatus

[12:22] Darien Caldwell: so what new feature is coming to groups?

[12:22] Baker Linden: The ability to actually load large groups in the interface

[12:22] Simon Linden: We might leave the old code in, Baker, and just use different paths depending on the viewer support

[12:22] Motor Loon: yeah screw legacy

[12:22] Darien Caldwell: nice

[12:22] Baker Linden: Well, the old code will not work, so it's the same thing.

[12:22] Melvin Starbrook fiffles

[12:22] Baker Linden: except for smaller groups

[12:23] Simon Linden: yeah, maybe put a sane limit on the old one so it stops hurting the back-end systems

[12:23] Baker Linden: I mean, the old code will still be there in the event that a legacy viewer is managing a group < ~12k people, but that's it

[12:23] Simon Linden: ah, thanks Motor, I'll quote your "screw legacy" when we discuss that with the product guys :)

[12:23] Motor Loon: sooner or later they'll have to get uptodate anyway °?°

[12:24] Melvin Starbrook: :))

[12:24] Darien Caldwell: i made the mistake of looking at the Server Beta group view once. *only once*

[12:24] Motor Loon: might aswell be sooner

[12:24] Simon Linden: The people with the large groups are going to upgrade pretty quickly, I think

[12:24] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 'kay, got my self into fixing up regions for pathfinding that I forgot about this.

[12:24] Melvin Starbrook: cool vl viewer has updates a lot :)

[12:24] Motor Loon: yep... humans tend to adapt - but usually not until they really need to

[12:25] Simon Linden: This will be good motivation for some

[12:25] Baker Linden: I mean, it really is just reformatting the data before I send it through the pipe, but it will also inflate the data to (what I consider) an unreasonable size for UDP

[12:26] Simon Linden: Sonya - the restarts are done for today

[12:26] Sonya Haight: and the crashes you mentioned? or was Darien just pulling my leg.

[12:26] Simon Linden: The high crash rate we were seeing has dropped down a lot, so we're keeping fingers crossed on that

[12:26] Sonya Haight: ah good

[12:26] Melvin's Windup key TO: Melvin Starbrook's windup key has run out.

[12:27] Darien Caldwell: I never joke about crashing ;p

[12:28] Motor Loon: on an unreleated sidenote, I just got myself one of these fancy spacenavigators - and they bloody ROCK for second life °?°

[12:28] Simon Linden: oh yeah, those are great. I highly recommend them

[12:29] Motor Loon: great if you do 3D modelling aswell...

[12:30] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over

[12:30] Simon Linden: Well, are there other questions or topics people would like to discuss?

[12:30] Simon Linden: Has anyone made new pathfinding content yet?

[12:31] Darien Caldwell: I do have one Pathfinding question, I keep getting conflicting answers

[12:31] Darien Caldwell: Some say you need to have region manager access to freeze/unfreeze the navmesh, others say just 'build rights' on a parcel.

[12:31] Darien Caldwell: as an Mandland Parcel Owner, I'm confused if i'll be able to set a Navmesh or not

[12:32] Simon Linden: If you're the parcel owner, you can set the pathfinding options on your objects, and then hit the "rebake navmesh" button to have it re-calculated

[12:32] Simon Linden: You don't have to be the region manager

[12:32] Darien Caldwell: ok, that sounds good. :)

[12:33] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Estate manager is only needed if you want to adjust any linksets for the navmesh - yes, EMs can change ANY linkset.

[12:33] Simon Linden: I just did that from a normal account on a Linden Homes region

[12:34] Simon Linden: Thanks Koli - that makes sense. EMs should be able to tweak the navmesh across the region

[12:35] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Yeah, I've just been doing that in regions I'm an EM of - fixing up the public areas for the navmesh on stuff I don't own or have edit rights to.

[12:35] Simon Linden: Have you added any pathfinding objects? I'm curious because I'd really love to see something that goes beyond the basic demos

[12:36] Yuzuru Jewell: When public PF viewer be released?

[12:36] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Not yet, I'm no scripter.

[12:36] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: PF is in the beta and viewer-development now.

[12:37] Baker Linden: Hey everyone, I need to get going -- I'll see everyone on Friday and hopefully have good news for everyone!

[12:37] Baker Linden: Sorry for leaving you alone, Simon.

[12:37] Darien Caldwell: bye :)

[12:37] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: See you, Baker.

[12:37] Simon Linden: Right - I know they'd like to get that out into the main viewer, but I'm sure there are some fixes still needed

[12:37] Motor Loon: I've only played around with it... my product types aren't really something that goes along with pathfinding. While it's supercool the usage its kinda limited to a few things.

[12:37] Melvin Starbrook: bye baker

[12:37] Simon Linden: No worries, bye Baker ..

[12:37] Simon Linden: ...late

[12:40] Simon Linden: well, it looks like topics and questions are getting scarce today ... if nobody has something to bring up, shall we end early?

[12:40] Motor Loon: think we may aswell

[12:40] Nalates Urriah: works for me

[12:40] Darien Caldwell: sounds reasonable

[12:40] Sonya Haight: ok with me, I want to go play with new things

[12:41] Sahkolihaa Contepomi can get back to fixing up regions for pathfinding then.

[12:41] Motor Loon: usually a good sign when people arent screaming and whining eh

[12:41] Motor Loon: you guys must be doing something right

[12:41] Darien Caldwell: no news is good news :)

[12:41] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: HEH

[12:41] Simon Linden: haha - yeah, this is much better than an angry mob with torches and pitchforks

[12:41] Arawn Spitteler: No News means you haven't chased that little red dot into a wall.

[12:42] Simon Linden: ok, thanks for coming today, and the nice chat. I'll see most of you on Friday

[12:42] Nalates Urriah: later all


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