Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2013.10.15
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List of Speakers
| Adamburp Adamczyk | Andrew Linden |
| Baker Linden | Hexapoda |
| Ima Mechanique | Jenna Felton |
| Jonathan Yap | Lucia Nightfire |
| Mona Eberhardt | Qie Niangao |
| Rex Cronon | Ron Khondji |
| Simon Linden | Yuzuru Jewell |
Transcript
[12:02] Simon Linden: We updated the main channel this morning ... the notes are here
[12:02] Simon Linden: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2013-10-14/td-p/2263271
[12:02] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Andrew.
[12:02] Hexapoda: Hello Andrew
[12:02] Andrew Linden: Hi everyone.
[12:02] Rex Cronon: hi andrew
[12:02] Simon Linden: I'm not sure about tomorrow's update ... we have a last-minute bug scramble
[12:03] Andrew Linden: Yeah, that last minute bug was my fault.
[12:03] Jenna Felton: hi Andrew
[12:03] Andrew Linden: It is fixed but... gotta pass QA again.
[12:04] Simon Linden: So that update may not happen ... we'll be working on testing and make a late decision
[12:05] Andrew Linden: So... I was taking some video footage of scene loading of some regions with lots of objects
[12:06] Andrew Linden: I brought the regions up on some old simulator code from before any of the latest interestlist work... from Dec 2012
[12:06] Mona Eberhardt: Hello everyone
[12:06] Rex Cronon: hi
[12:06] Hexapoda: Hello Mr Baker.
[12:06] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Mona.
[12:06] Andrew Linden: and I was reminded as to how poorly the scene used to load -- everything arrived in mostly random order
[12:07] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Baker.
[12:07] Andrew Linden: do you all remember how the floor of this meeting used to show up very late?
[12:07] Andrew Linden: When was the last time that happened to anyone here?
[12:07] Simon Linden: oh yeah, that used to be pretty bad
[12:08] Andrew Linden: I found a very small room in one of my test regions
[12:08] Andrew Linden: so I logged out while standing in this closet, cleared my cache, and logged back in...
[12:08] Andrew Linden: on the old simulator code you could see the world streaming in and then BAM! the walls of the room would obscure everything
[12:09] Andrew Linden: on the new code... the walls are there as soon as the login curtain raises
[12:09] Andrew Linden: not that the scene loading is perfect now, but some of you may remember... it used to be much worse
[12:09] Jenna Felton: that remembers me on bug with prims not load at all displying damaged house. is it this?
[12:10] Andrew Linden: It is related Jenna... but the behavior I was talking about was objects showing up late
[12:10] Jenna Felton: ah, ok
[12:10] Rex Cronon: what happened when u came out of it andrew?
[12:11] Andrew Linden: if they never show up... or require you to waggle your camera around before they show up... is probably a related but distinct bug
[12:11] Andrew Linden: when I left the closet you mean? Oh... was that a setup?
[12:12] Qie Niangao: heheh
[12:12] Andrew Linden: Ok, I'm done with my little tangent.
[12:13] Rex Cronon: did the rest of the house wwas already rezzed
[12:13] Simon Linden: Are there any topics or questions people want to bring up?
[12:13] Andrew Linden: Yes, the rest of the world had rezzed by the time I walked out of the room.
[12:13] Lucia Nightfire: I have one, heh
[12:13] Lucia Nightfire: take a guess what it is
[12:13] Rex Cronon: was the rest of the house already rezzed*
[12:13] Qie Niangao: (I do think scene loading is much improved over, say, a year ago.)
[12:13] Lucia Nightfire: -Extremely high Avatar Render Weights reported to the server are now capped at 500,000 (BUG-4010[c])
[12:14] Simon Linden: ok, what about that, Lucy?
[12:15] Mona Eberhardt: Oh yes! BUG-772. Since Saturday, I've been experiencing my homestead's memory becoming full and then I was getting the "unable to create item that has caused problems in this region" error message. Is this a bug that has relapsed?
[12:15] Lucia Nightfire: what does it mean capped?
[12:15] Simon Linden: The server will take any report over 500k and treat it as 500k
[12:16] Lucia Nightfire: so now ARW by script is pretty much goign to be a useless metic?
[12:16] Simon Linden: No, you should consider anything close to 500k as just "way too high"
[12:17] Lucia Nightfire: 500k is pretty common though
[12:17] Ima Mechanique: lol I consider anything over a 1K as way too high :-)
[12:17] Rex Cronon: the thing is that ARW nr is what determines if somebody is not allowed access in sim
[12:17] Simon Linden: No, it's not. It's about 1% of the people
[12:17] Lucia Nightfire: [12:16:24] PSG Security AID (Mauve): Denim Erin(Age: 1424, In Sim: 13 seconds) - 3a93cab3-ecf1-4371-bcf1-c0ea2f22a22c - High Avatar Render Weight (532612) - *Unknown Object Name* - <116,95,34> - Creator: *Unknown Creator*
[12:17] Lucia Nightfire: I just got that report just now, lol
[12:18] Andrew Linden: Jonathan, I *just* realized that the email you sent me about default perms for new objects had fallen off my radar.
[12:18] Lucia Nightfire: I will have no use for ARW by script if it doesn't report actual values
[12:18] Andrew Linden: I will write a reply now.
[12:18] Jonathan Yap: Thank you Andrew
[12:18] Jonathan Yap: I thought you and Oz might have been working on something before writing back
[12:18] Simon Linden: The system is a compromise that's needed because some people will try to game it
[12:19] Lucia Nightfire: so you weren't able to come to a solution to deter obfuscation
[12:19] Simon Linden: You should not trust the values too much ... they are from viewers, which (don't take this personally, anyone) can not be trusted to be accurate
[12:19] Lucia Nightfire: I can't use values capped at 500k, lol
[12:20] Lucia Nightfire: to me it would be a waste of resources not returning what is sent
[12:20] Qie Niangao: Actually, why not? Anything anywhere near 500K is obviously griefing.
[12:20] Lucia Nightfire: not really
[12:20] Lucia Nightfire: values over 2 million I would be worried about
[12:21] Lucia Nightfire: I see a fiar amount of 500k+ ARW values daily
[12:21] Qie Niangao: hmm. I guess those are two-person sims. :p
[12:21] Simon Linden: 500k is at the very high end of usage ... really, anyone near that in a public place is hogging your viewer display power
[12:21] Lucia Nightfire: mostly with peopel wearing lots of jewelry
[12:21] Jenna Felton: make it to cap at the level the object owner themselves show :)
[12:21] Rex Cronon: hair and shoes r killing graphics cards:(
[12:22] Simon Linden: If you hop around a lot and gather data from your own viewer reports that show different numbers, Lucy, I'd be interested in the data
[12:22] Baker Linden: I wanted to give an update on group bans: I'm currently working through the bugs found by internal QA testing, trying to fix them as quickly as I can. Later today I'll be doing another round of code reviews, and hopefully everything there will go smoothly.
[12:23] Lucia Nightfire: I'm just curious why a cap was deemed necessary at all
[12:23] Simon Linden: But I did a reasonable survey of regions and had some help from people here ... the average is near 100k
[12:23] Lucia Nightfire: yes, avg is low
[12:23] Simon Linden: if you're up by 500k - you're using roughtly 5x the viewer render resources as everyone else
[12:24] Qie Niangao: Good to hear the group bans are coming along. A bunch of folks eager for those.
[12:24] Mona Eberhardt: Speaking of which, Simon, I still owe you data on this. But here, Firestorm reports that the highest ARW here is about 162K.
[12:24] Simon Linden: Also remember that SL is not doing anything with this data ... it's up to scripters and land owners to react
[12:24] Simon Linden: So I can imagine a popular club maybe sending a warning IM to someone who's really complex
[12:25] Lucia Nightfire: right, but I'd rather see high numbers than caps at 500k to make that call
[12:25] Lucia Nightfire: it was going to be in teh scripters hands anyway
[12:25] Simon Linden: the big problem with high numbers is not trusting them
[12:25] Mona Eberhardt: However, I've seen people who wear lots of mesh drive ARW up a lot. Complex mesh breast implants with multiple different top/nipple/piercings/whatever layers are major contributors to ARW.
[12:25] Adamburp Adamczyk: don't certain security devices have options to warn/eject/ban if ARW etc is too high?
[12:25] Ima Mechanique: Mona, now that's research I could get behind.
[12:25] Rex Cronon: u also can't trust small numbers either
[12:26] Lucia Nightfire: only bot backed systems do
[12:26] Lucia Nightfire: until now
[12:26] Adamburp Adamczyk: some orbs have a very similar function based on avatar script limits I think
[12:26] Lucia Nightfire: I couldn't tie moderation toa system if there is no anti obfuscation means in place
[12:26] Mona Eberhardt: Ima, I'll tell you that both Lolas and Vstrings can significantly drive your ARW up by at least 100K.
[12:26] Lucia Nightfire: so ARW by script is useless to me, esp now with a cap, lol
[12:27] Simon Linden: I thought of a few replies to that, Mona, but I'm going to be responsible and keep them to myself
[12:27] Simon Linden: ;)
[12:28] Ima Mechanique: aww, I was thinking about getting a clipboard and asking random strangers if I could inspect their breasts ;-)
[12:28] Simon Linden: well, I hope some people can find it useful within it's limitations. As it currently works, it should give scripts a good idea if some people are extra-costly. It's up to the scripter to handle that well or not
[12:28] Rex Cronon: can i poke them? that is a nice question. lol
[12:29] Lucia Nightfire: it will ultimately be a ref for admin present to visually investigate
[12:29] Jenna Felton: what about make logarithmical costs? every 10-times increase the ARW by 1, so 500k would be about 4 and 5 will be with 100K, and you not know if it is 100.000 or 900.000
[12:29] Lucia Nightfire: since it can't be trusted to work on its own w/o the secure readings
[12:30] Mona Eberhardt: Also, sculpted jewellery can increase ARW a lot.
[12:30] Lucia Nightfire: and in that regard, what about https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-2467 has there been any consideration on it?
[12:30] Mona Eberhardt: And there are some content creators (like Neurolag) who keep on putting 1024x1024s even in the tiniest objects.
[12:30] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over
[12:31] Lucia Nightfire: my only interest in ARW by script was hopeful detection of idiots wearing sculpt laggers
[12:32] Mona Eberhardt: Speaking of which, Simon, I still owe you data on this. But here, Firestorm reports that the highest ARW here is about 162K.Also, I want to point you people to BUG-772; basically, this weekend I experienced physics memory getting full (after extensive and repeating terraforming and region rebaking).
[12:32] Mona Eberhardt: Scratch the previous one, I mistyped.
[12:32] Lucia Nightfire: but there are too many complications with the method of operation to make that possible
[12:32] Mona Eberhardt: want to point you people to BUG-772; basically, this weekend I experienced physics memory getting full (after extensive and repeating terraforming and region rebaking).
[12:32] Simon Linden: Mona - sculpted jewelry is a perfect example of bad building practices. While they can be beautiful, that level of geometry detail and texturing in a small item is just a lot of work to draw.
[12:33] Simon Linden: It's fine for photography or in a lowly populated spot, but wearing it to a crowded region slows everyone down
[12:33] Rex Cronon: can we have the option of not rendering attachments that people wear?
[12:33] Lucia Nightfire: Mona, FS's current release is using LL's 3.5.3 viewer's values, the ARW calc was changed when materials came along
[12:33] Lucia Nightfire: the new FS beta has the correct current calc
[12:33] Andrew Linden: Perhaps instead of ARW (which is is an almalgamation of untrusted data from viewers) the server should be supplying some other data, like: number of distinct sculpts, number of prims, number of distinct textures, number of lights, and other bits.
[12:33] Mona Eberhardt: Thanks Lucy.
[12:33] Lucia Nightfire: np
[12:34] Rex Cronon: that would help andrew
[12:34] Andrew Linden: or in addition to the averaged ARW score
[12:34] Lucia Nightfire: Andrew: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7585
[12:34] Jenna Felton: Is there any way to calculate a number by servers? Because you know already how a viewer displays everything, you should be able to repeat that process by servers :) and abstract some viewer specific stuf like particles what one can deactivate anyways
[12:34] Lucia Nightfire: why was streaming cost targeting agents never enabled?
[12:35] Rex Cronon: can we know how many veritices a sculpt or a mesh have?
[12:35] Rex Cronon: vertices*
[12:35] Lucia Nightfire: the viewer knows that Rex
[12:35] Jenna Felton: I think Andrew got the idea i meant :)
[12:35] Simon Linden: Jenna -- we went down that route, but much of the info is stuff the server never looks at
[12:35] Jenna Felton: ok
[12:35] Andrew Linden: Actually, the server only knows the number of vertices in the collision shape of the mesh
[12:35] Rex Cronon: well. there is no lsl function that returns such info
[12:35] Andrew Linden: not the render shape.
[12:36] Simon Linden: The server doesn't look inside a lot of the data ... it might just say you have attachments A, B and C, but it never looks at the details to draw them like the viewer does
[12:37] Andrew Linden: Hrm right... the texture data on mesh... the server does not know about those
[12:37] Andrew Linden: I think... maybe it does know the texture UUID, but not the resolution? I'd have to look at the code.
[12:37] Simon Linden: I'm not even sure it looks at mesh attachment shapes at all
[12:38] Andrew Linden: oh right Simon, it knows that it doesn't have to include those shapes in the physics engine
[12:38] Andrew Linden: so it probably doesn't load the data
[12:38] Andrew Linden: at least... on login or TP arrival
[12:39] Jenna Felton: The land impact is calculated on server, i beleive. That should be posible for attachments too. The problem remains stil, the calculated number will be pretty abstract
[12:39] Andrew Linden: well, it was an idea, and might still be worth doing -- whatever _useful_ info that server has about avatar complexity could be made available
[12:40] Jenna Felton: perhaps the true ARW number should be stil taken from viewer but work in attachments olny atached to agend using the viewer
[12:41] Simon Linden: yes ... in the end, there's a big question about how important and crucial this information is ... it would take a lot of work to get consistent, accurate numbers, and the real value, I think, is being able to find and nudge the high-cost avatars to clean up a bit
[12:41] Jenna Felton: so you can ban griefer away with an object misusing that feature
[12:41] Simon Linden: You can do whatever you want with the numbers :)
[12:42] Qie Niangao: Not sure what problem we're trying to solve here. Is the concern that griefers will briefly wear hypercomplex attachments to crash other viewers, before those viewers can report their avatar complexity to the server?
[12:42] Lucia Nightfire: yes
[12:42] Simon Linden: There's been a lot of talk over the years about enforcing limits on AVs ... but there's an interesting issue, which is how to handle it
[12:42] Lucia Nightfire: timing is critical when deterring that scenario
[12:42] Qie Niangao: I can see how that could happen, yeah.
[12:42] Hexapoda: You can do whatever you want with the numbers, so let us divide by zero.
[12:42] Lucia Nightfire: some clients will crash instantly, some will lag and time out after 100 sec
[12:43] Simon Linden: You can't be just blocking and banning someone ... they might be clueless and are just showing off their new awesome jewelry
[12:43] Lucia Nightfire: right
[12:43] Qie Niangao: okay, so ultimately it's up to the viewer's rendering pipeline to protect itself.
[12:43] Ima Mechanique: true Simon, but you can eject them from your sim with a polite message why
[12:43] Mona Eberhardt: Simon, regarding "cleaning up", I went down Penny Patton's route; replaced textures with 128x128s or even 64x64s (some I even made by taking a screenshot of the viewer while editing the offending item), removing scripts, removing mesh/sculpt layers and parts I don't intend to use...
[12:44] Jenna Felton: and when the viewer is enforced to report the ARW to the servers so it can not TP to a sim with set ARW limit, and the reported number is than delivered by servers to any script wanting it... quite like it was with the backed textures before SSA?
[12:44] Andrew Linden: The true solution is to make the viewer smarter -- it should know to knot render a 1024 texture on a small object, and it should know not to render an expensive avatar in full glory.
[12:44] Mona Eberhardt: I can say I was able to to reduce the render weight by 50%-70%.
[12:44] Andrew Linden: huh? how did I type 'knot' instead of not?
[12:44] Lucia Nightfire: I'm not concerned with people wearing lots of jewelry, I'm concerned about them wearing sculpt laggers which yield ARW in the multiple millions
[12:45] Adamburp Adamczyk: typing and eating birthday cake never go toegether Andrew
[12:45] Mona Eberhardt: Maybe you were thinking of nawa shibari, Andrew.
[12:45] Rex Cronon: yes 4 smarter viewers. but we the user must be the ones that determine how smart it is, what removes and what doesn't
[12:45] Ima Mechanique: Andrew, got autocomplete on your viewer ;-)
[12:45] Simon Linden: The reporting system isn't instant, Lucy - I'm not sure many people will stick around long enough to report those values
[12:46] Lucia Nightfire: yeah, thats teh problem, most users are not tech savy and don't bother with many settings
[12:46] Lucia Nightfire: yeah, Simon that was one of the three problems of the current implementation, lol
[12:46] Lucia Nightfire: the averaging over time thing, the cap, the obfuscation potential
[12:46] Jenna Felton: Display the own ARW in the Apperance window. And use colors white blue green yellow red :)
[12:47] Jenna Felton: no one would misnotice that
[12:48] Rex Cronon: btw. why do i sometimes see "hippos" on the bottom right of viewer screen?
[12:49] Lucia Nightfire: are you on FS?
[12:49] Rex Cronon: no
[12:49] Jonathan Yap: Rex, you found the easter egg
[12:50] Rex Cronon: i mean the word not an actual hippo:)
[12:50] Jonathan Yap: that is a little joke in the viewer, for a while it was missing but it got put back a while ago
[12:51] Rex Cronon: u r pulling my leg. aren't u?
[12:51] Ron Khondji: ctgrl - alt- shift - h
[12:51] Jonathan Yap: no. Someone else chime in here too
[12:51] Qie Niangao: Develop / Consoles / Badge
[12:51] Andrew Linden: No. The word "HIPPOS" was randomly inserted in certain strings in the original SL viewer
[12:51] Lucia Nightfire: Also, I've been seeing high Agent timing in almost any RC region I go to with other peopel present, what is up with that
[12:51] Andrew Linden: so no, he's not pulling your leg
[12:52] Rex Cronon: i think i might have pressed that key combo
[12:52] Adamburp Adamczyk: hey it does owrk
[12:52] Lucia Nightfire: its causing the old swinging timing issue that used to eb a probelm before net timing was stablized
[12:52] Andrew Linden: oh really Lucia? That is interesting.
[12:52] Baker Linden: addText(xpos, ypos+(y_inc/2), llformat("Hippos!", RAD_TO_DEG * LLViewerCamera::getInstance()->getView()));
[12:52] Lucia Nightfire: Andrew take a look at regions, Kenophobe or Shiromani and you'll see what I mean
[12:53] Jonathan Yap: someone write a jira, "Hippos!" is not localized :)
[12:53] Rex Cronon: lol. i was thinking i got a virus:)
[12:53] Andrew Linden: Ok I'll do that.
[12:53] Lucia Nightfire: but I see it everywhere that has people
[12:53] Lucia Nightfire: Agent timing in those regions is avg 5 - 6 ms
[12:53] Lucia Nightfire: when it used to be liek 1.5
[12:54] Rex Cronon: thanks guys for clearing that out:)
[12:54] Lucia Nightfire: and in regions with less than a dozne peopel on teh groudn and no high obejct counts, I've been seeing 3 ms avg
[12:54] Andrew Linden: Yeah, I'll definitely have to try to verify that.
[12:54] Lucia Nightfire: its def impacting scrit timing and total timing
[12:54] Lucia Nightfire: *script
[12:55] Lucia Nightfire: in fact, most of the time, total timing does not = the total of all timings, its like theres some missing timing not being reported
[12:55] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is almost over
[12:55] Lucia Nightfire: like I see a 33ms avg for total timing and the total should really be 22
[12:56] Andrew Linden: 22 would correspond to 45 fps, but you're seeing 33 ms reported when the fps is 45?
[12:57] Lucia Nightfire: not fps, Total Frame Time
[12:57] Lucia Nightfire: Net, Physics,Sim,Agent,Image, Script, Spare dont't total that metric
[12:57] Andrew Linden: right. 45 fps is equivalent to 22 ms per frame
[12:57] Lucia Nightfire: in those regions you'll see what I mean, lol
[12:58] Simon Linden: 33 ms isn't unusual ... you'll get that if the sim is running 30 fps
[12:58] Andrew Linden: so 33 ms per frame would be 30 fps
[12:58] Rex Cronon: btw. there is a weird bug. u go to a sim an after a few seconds all your attachments detach. i hope is not another weird key combo that i entered by mistake:)
[12:59] Andrew Linden: Rex, you're seeing that where? RC channel? or somewhere else?
[12:59] Lucia Nightfire: sounds like that bomb again
[12:59] Rex Cronon: sandbox weapons testing sim
[12:59] Lucia Nightfire: btw, simon I finally made a SEC on that so I can ref soemthing whenever I bring it up again
[13:00] Rex Cronon: lucy. attachments work for a few seconds, and suddenly go missing
[13:00] Lucia Nightfire: Rex, that can happen if they didn't didn't get transfered on teh tp
[13:00] Jenna Felton: and appeear after a whie Rex? or you must reattach everything
[13:00] Lucia Nightfire: your HUDs will probably stay though, but not show any info on select
[13:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group
[13:00] Lucia Nightfire: and won't work
[13:00] Rex Cronon: i should that attachements show and scripts in them work for a few seconds after u loggin the sim
[13:01] Rex Cronon: nothing come back
[13:01] Jenna Felton: "file the bug report" :)
[13:01] Rex Cronon: had to go to a different sim and wear everything
[13:01] Jenna Felton: i never experienced it
[13:01] Lucia Nightfire: sounds like a variant of taht bomb though , Rex
[13:02] Rex Cronon: i thought so too lucy
[13:02] Lucia Nightfire: aside from teh visual, you'd have to leave the regions for your stuff to show up and work again
[13:02] Simon Linden: if you tp somewhere else, do they re-appear?
[13:02] Rex Cronon: they don't come back simon
[13:03] Lucia Nightfire: that bomb has various effects depending on if the payload was abel to be rezzed, the script alone can block asset requests though
[13:03] Rex Cronon: yesterday happened for first time
[13:03] Rex Cronon: i saw somthing similar happen when some weird objects collide with u. it makes u loose attachments
[13:03] Lucia Nightfire: I've seen that issue when tping into a majorly laggign sim though, Rex
[13:04] Lucia Nightfire: stuff doesn't make it and dissappears
[13:04] Jenna Felton: when it is a bomb, the problem should repeat on the same region?
[13:04] Yuzuru Jewell: Is it concerned with life time of self temp rez?
[13:04] Jenna Felton: or it is an once use bomb
[13:04] Lucia Nightfire: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SEC-1352
[13:05] Andrew Linden: Lucia, the high "Agent Time"... you noticed that in RC last week?
[13:05] Rex Cronon: its a scripted object while is working makes sim stop delivery of attchmets,
[13:05] Rex Cronon: also stops cripts from running, and rezzing from your inventory
[13:05] Rex Cronon: stops scripts*
[13:05] Lucia Nightfire: since last roll, Andrew
[13:06] Lucia Nightfire: other than that it was slow script time decay
[13:06] Andrew Linden: Hrm... the main channel was updated today to be the same code as was on all the RC's last week.
[13:06] Andrew Linden: so this region is currently on that version
[13:06] Lucia Nightfire: I don't frequent MC regions now that all my sandboxes are on RC's, heh
[13:06] Jenna Felton: ok than when you are premium you should bea ble to call a linden in live chat and tell where the bomb is right now to remove. and check logs
[13:07] Andrew Linden: "Agent Time" is currently ... ~0.35 msec
[13:07] Lucia Nightfire: support doesn't deal with griefer issue though
[13:07] Andrew Linden: but I will go to the regions you mentioned and check it out
[13:07] Lucia Nightfire: here it is, yes
[13:07] Lucia Nightfire: thanks
[13:07] Andrew Linden: could be some content that lags the "interestlist" code
[13:08] Lucia Nightfire: you'll see textures and prims
[13:08] Lucia Nightfire: but those regions setup hasn't changed in over half a year
[13:08] Andrew Linden: btw, the "Agent time" stuff includes: sorting through objects to see what is visible, an also sending object update packets
[13:09] Andrew Linden: so if there were a lot of updates to be sent "Agent Time" would be high
[13:09] Lucia Nightfire: I was just hoping it was a bunch of log data beign send by the latest release viewer, lol
[13:09] Lucia Nightfire: *wasn't
[13:09] Simon Linden: I have to go - thanks everyone for coming today
[13:09] Lucia Nightfire: laters
[13:09] Rex Cronon: tc simon
[13:09] Mona Eberhardt: Thank you Lindens.
[13:10] Jonathan Yap: Thank you everyone
[13:10] Rex Cronon: ok. i guess meeting is over
[13:10] rcdsQueChatLog: Rex Cronon, you can read the log here:
http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl:Rex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1
[13:10] Andrew Linden: yup, see you all later
[13:10] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Rex.
[13:10] Baker Linden: Thanks for coming everyone! Have a fantastic week! I'll see some of you on Thursday!
[13:10] Andrew Linden: thanks for coming
[13:10] Ima Mechanique: I have to run too. Bye all. Lindens thanks
[13:10] Rex Cronon: u r welcom yuzuru
[13:10] Lucia Nightfire: rex, put that website url in your picks, lol
[13:10] Rex Cronon: tc baker
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