Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2013.12.03
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List of Speakers
| Adamburp Adamczyk | Andrew Linden | Duckie Dickins |
| Inara Pey | Jenna Felton | Jonathan Yap |
| Kennylex Luckless | Kitto Flora | Lucia Nightfire |
| Martinrj Fayray | Mona Eberhardt | Rex Cronon |
| Simon Linden | Siwo | Whirly Fizzle |
| Yuzuru Jewell |
Transcript
[12:01] Kennylex Luckless: Andrew, do you know how many attachment point a avatar has ;-)
[12:02] Simon Linden: Hi everyone
[12:02] Lucia Nightfire: 40
[12:02] Jonathan Yap: 42 slots, but can't use them all at once, right?
[12:02] Andrew Linden: Something like 40... I'm not sure what the exact number.
[12:02] Andrew Linden: But some of those numbers include the HUD attachment points.
[12:02] Kitto Flora: Lucy - could be - though the returns are all the latest model of Railcar
[12:02] Duckie Dickins: I hope everyone had a nice thanksgiving.
[12:02] Lucia Nightfire: 40 points, 42 attachments allowed
[12:03] Lucia Nightfire: just saying that entire region was sold
[12:03] Lucia Nightfire: didn't even think rails ran through it, just to the region to teh south of it, Olive
[12:03] Adamburp Adamczyk: ys, to
[12:03] Whirly Fizzle: Isnt that attachment limit enforced serverside too?
[12:03] Adamburp Adamczyk: °• Batman! °•
[12:03] Kennylex Luckless: We need to give Andrew some bling to thest them
[12:03] Simon Linden: Did you folks talk about releases yet?
[12:03] Jonathan Yap: no
[12:04] Andrew Linden: I'm not going to be able to stick around for the whole meeting. I probably have to step out at 12:30 or so.
[12:04] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
[12:04] Andrew Linden: No Simon, we haven't really started yet.
[12:04] Mona Eberhardt: Hi Rex. Hi Baker.
[12:04] Kitto Flora: Lucy - line does not go Thr Indigo - curves dont even point at Indigo.
[12:04] Simon Linden: ok, I can cover that ... we updated the main channel today with a maintenance release
[12:04] Simon Linden: Details are at http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2013-12-02/td-p/2357395
[12:04] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Rex.
[12:04] Simon Linden: Tomorrow we will have another maintenance release on all 3 RC channels
[12:04] Jenna Felton: hello all i missed to greet and Lindens :)
[12:05] rcdsQueChatLog: Rex Cronon, you can read the log here:
http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl:Rex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1
[12:05] Simon Linden: It's not a big update and fixes a crash plus a minor fix to llGetAgentInfo()
[12:05] Rex Cronon: hi mona
[12:05] Rex Cronon: hi yuzuru
[12:06] Simon Linden: We may have another update before the holidays but will be locking things down in a couple of weekes
[12:06] Simon Linden: That's it for my news
[12:06] Andrew Linden: That is, there is a big No Change Window for SL updates that spans Christmas and the New Year.
[12:06] Kitto Flora: Wonder if it will fix the griefer crashes in Wenge - thats back at several per day
[12:07] Mona Eberhardt: Simon, remember when I asked about LSL functionality to control materials? I was pointed to a JIRA on this matter. It's MATBUG-359.
[12:07] Duckie Dickins: Has there been any asset issues lately? I rezzed an object recently and a sculpt that was part of the linkset turned itself into a torus
[12:07] Mona Eberhardt: So, there is actually a request for this.
[12:08] Jonathan Yap: I thought a sculpt started off as a torus
[12:08] Jenna Felton: is my computer, or all SL servers are down? including sl wiki and grid status and sl website?
[12:08] Martinrj Fayray: gridstatus works for me
[12:08] Jenna Felton: a sculpt started alwas as some ball of wood
[12:08] Mona Eberhardt: No problems here.
[12:08] Martinrj Fayray: but web profiles didn't work the past 4 days
[12:08] Jenna Felton: ok, than i have something here locally
[12:08] Simon Linden: Thanks Mona ... I'll see if we can get that in the queue for consideration
[12:09] Mona Eberhardt: I know all content creators will appreciate a speedy addition of this feature.
[12:09] Andrew Linden: I don't think there is a known problem with the asset system today. At least, the servers aren't falling over or anything.
[12:10] Martinrj Fayray: I don't think a user group exists for issues with the website? Could you maybe poke someone internally though for the profiles? They haven't been working for 3-4 days.
[12:10] Jonathan Yap: Andrew, Oz has some regions on Aditi for testing; maybe you can apply your server changes for storm-68 to Blizzard and Flurry
[12:10] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-68
[#STORM-68] As a Builder, I want that ability to set default permissions on creation of objects, clothing, scripts, notecards, etc. - Second Life Bug Tracker
[12:10] Martinrj Fayray: that would be cool
[12:11] Andrew Linden: Hrm... Jonathan that may be possible.
[12:11] Whirly Fizzle: Duckie, did you happen to be on Firestorm and were you building at the time using copy/paste object parameters? Theres a really bizarre bug on FS that can cause you to see all sculpts as torus till you relog.
[12:11] Kennylex Luckless: There is a new return bug, in Zoe a grief are stuck and 75 extra prims has been in a percel 6h now, Ritch (252,239,26)
[12:12] Andrew Linden: I'll have to negotiate with our #deploy team to get some servers for testing that feature. I've done that in the past.
[12:12] Andrew Linden: (^^^ regarding STORM-68)
[12:12] Jonathan Yap: kk, I was thinking it might be easier to merge your changes into what is already there
[12:12] Andrew Linden: no Jonathan, that wouldn't be easy I think.
[12:12] Duckie Dickins: No. I will check the item again after the meeting and see if it might be related though.
[12:12] Andrew Linden: Jonathan name one region that is part of Oz's regions on aditi.
[12:13] Jonathan Yap: Blizzard
[12:13] Andrew Linden: So I can look it up and see what it is running.
[12:13] Jonathan Yap: I think he has a block of 4
[12:14] Andrew Linden: Jonathan, I don't think Oz is in the office today. I don't see him hanging out in IRC.
[12:15] Jonathan Yap: Oz's HD is failing, computer woes
[12:15] Jonathan Yap: Also you can try Sleet
[12:15] Andrew Linden: I wouldn't want to replace his regions without him around, but I might be able to get a host or two for my own test channel.
[12:15] Andrew Linden: I'll ask the #deploy team later today and send you email with an update.
[12:15] Jonathan Yap: Thanks so much
[12:17] Andrew Linden reads back...
[12:18] Andrew Linden: Kennylex says there is a return bug. 75 extra prims in a parcel in Ritch.
[12:18] Rex Cronon: btw. what is the deal with avatars named "(???)
[12:18] Rex Cronon: (???)"
[12:18] Jonathan Yap: Rex, that is a display name that has not loaded yet
[12:18] Lucia Nightfire: dataserver or its people doign a certain exploit and leaving ghost behind
[12:18] Rex Cronon: "(???)(???)"
[12:19] Kennylex Luckless: Yes, the percel is full still 75 griefer prims got stuck there
[12:19] Andrew Linden: the parcel is over-full? or is just full?
[12:19] Kennylex Luckless: over full
[12:19] Whirly Fizzle: Or you're on a viewer that doesn't hide the asset avatar & someones uploading something
[12:19] Rex Cronon: i heard that that those r avatars that have been crased with "special" viewers
[12:19] Kennylex Luckless: +75 prims a long time now, oldie without auto return again.
[12:20] Lucia Nightfire: rex those can be generated at will
[12:20] Andrew Linden: hrm... what parcel is that Kennylex? Do you have a location or name?
[12:20] Lucia Nightfire: theres a few people that liek leaving multiples ghosts of them self behind in regions
[12:20] Kennylex Luckless: Ritch (252,239,26)
[12:20] Lucia Nightfire: it can screw with agent counts and blockade regions too iirc
[12:20] Rex Cronon: interesting
[12:20] Andrew Linden: ok I'll try to examine it later today.
[12:20] Kennylex Luckless: But not parcel name, I can send scout to get a name
[12:21] Andrew Linden: location is enough
[12:22] Andrew Linden: Rex and Whirly, are you saying that there are some hacked viewers that can logout and leave a ghost avatar in the region that never goes away?
[12:22] Andrew Linden: er... Rex and Lucia, I mean.
[12:23] Lucia Nightfire: I know three people that know how to do it at will, I've seen them do it
[12:23] Lucia Nightfire: but I was not allowed the info how
[12:23] Rex Cronon: i see that i have seen at least 2 avatars at swt with the name "(???)(???)"
[12:23] Whirly Fizzle: I don't know. I just know the asset avatar displays as (???)(???) in radar but it should be hidden on V3 anyway & its hidden by default on FS.
[12:23] Whirly Fizzle: Some viewers don't hide displaying it though
[12:24] Rex Cronon: lsl doesn't detect them
[12:24] Andrew Linden: If the names are "(???)" then the name lookup service is failing somehow.
[12:24] Lucia Nightfire: its (???)(???), not ???
[12:24] Jonathan Yap: Whirly can yousee the legacy name?
[12:24] Lucia Nightfire: you can't get reid of those ghost by any means other than reset afaik
[12:24] Whirly Fizzle: No, it doesn't have a name
[12:24] Rex Cronon: is (???)(???)
[12:24] Lucia Nightfire: at least I could send them home last time I tried
[12:24] Lucia Nightfire: *couldn't
[12:25] Whirly Fizzle: If you want to see them on FS set FSShowDummyAVsinRadar to TRUE
[12:25] Rex Cronon: i think only a sim crash can get rid of them
[12:25] Lucia Nightfire: doesn't teh asset av appear at 0,0,0 or 10,10,10?
[12:25] Whirly Fizzle: Ya
[12:25] Whirly Fizzle: 0,0,0
[12:25] Lucia Nightfire: these can be created at teh user's pos
[12:25] Lucia Nightfire: the ones we're talkign about
[12:26] Whirly Fizzle: I don't know anything about the griff ones
[12:26] Rex Cronon: what lucy says
[12:26] Lucia Nightfire: I just don't know how its done, heh
[12:26] Jonathan Yap: could the location of the asset avatar be changed to have a large Z value? At least then they would not show up as often for people nearby
[12:26] Rex Cronon: fake packets r sent to sim. i think
[12:27] Lucia Nightfire: I'm sure its some kind of process interruption/modification, heh
[12:27] Andrew Linden: What is the phenomena? This is an avatar that is rendered but doesn't actually exist on the server? or... a real avatar whose presence on the server is stuck?
[12:27] Whirly Fizzle: The IM test avatar also is called (???)(???). Develop -> XUI -> Send Test Ims
[12:28] Rex Cronon: i thought that ll didn't allow "special" viewers:)
[12:28] Lucia Nightfire: they show up on radar and afaik, llGetAgentSize() and llGetObjectDetails(), but can't be collided with or sent home/ejected
[12:28] Jonathan Yap: There are 2 things being talked about: the asset avatar created at 0,0,0 when uploading something
[12:28] Jonathan Yap: and the ones in other places with ??? names
[12:28] Lucia Nightfire: look like alpha mask wearing ruth haired av's
[12:28] Whirly Fizzle: Hmm is it mayabe avatars connected in with a voice hack?
[12:30] Andrew Linden: I don't have many ideas on what is going on based on the description. I'll probably have to witness it and check the server logs to get more clues.
[12:30] Jonathan Yap: Andrew, are you familiar with the asset avatar?
[12:30] Andrew Linden: No.
[12:30] Jonathan Yap: Someone please explain
[12:31] Andrew Linden: What is the "asset avatar"?
[12:31] Rex Cronon: this picture might give u an idea andrew: http://www.flickr.com/photos/_skills/8417365919/in/set-72157625593707479
[12:31] Rex Cronon: :)
[12:31] Siwo: wow :o
[12:32] Whirly Fizzle: Its the "avatar" that allows you to preview things before you upload. All uploads cause an asset avatar to appear on the region apart from bulk upload
[12:32] Jonathan Yap: It is located at 0,0,0
[12:32] Whirly Fizzle: Details here https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-28841
[12:33] Andrew Linden: So, the "asset avatar" is not a real avatar, but is rendered by the viewer. (?)
[12:33] Whirly Fizzle: Viewer 3 had a big where it wasn't hiding the presence of the asset avatar for a while & it caused mych fun with everyone wondering what it was
[12:33] Martinrj Fayray: it is real
[12:33] Whirly Fizzle: *bug
[12:33] Martinrj Fayray: it is real, but hidden by the viewer
[12:34] Whirly Fizzle: Ya you can see it, its a cloud & has a name tag, if your viewer doesn't hide it
[12:34] Andrew Linden: When I say "real" I mean that the avatar has a data representation on the server.
[12:34] Jonathan Yap: Andrew probably wrote the code for that asset avatar a decade ago :P
[12:35] Siwo: I remember seeing this like... half a year ago... funny thing was, those "avatars" could be kicked/sent home but they would return :D ...the only way to get rid of them was restart sim
[12:35] Andrew Linden: It sounds like it isn't actually a real avatar, but is a rendering glitch of the viewer? If you logout and back in it is gone?
[12:35] Andrew Linden: Does everyone see it? Or is is only visible to one person?
[12:36] Andrew Linden: oh...
[12:36] Whirly Fizzle: It appears whenever you do an upload, then poofs when the upload is complete
[12:36] Rex Cronon: everybody sees it
[12:36] Rex Cronon: even people that just tp in
[12:36] Whirly Fizzle: But I think you're talking about the griffy ones
[12:36] Andrew Linden: strange, I wonder how the asset avatar works...
[12:36] Andrew Linden: I wonder if it is a "Viewer Effect"
[12:36] Simon Linden: It's all viewer-side, if I remember right. I fixed one of those viewer glitches earlier this year
[12:37] Jonathan Yap: But for it to show on the mini-map the server has to be sending some Agent data about it
[12:37] Inara Pey: Is the "griefing" avatar an exploit of the asset avatar, or unrelated, or unknown?
[12:37] Andrew Linden: which are triggered by a viewer but are visible to other viewers when the server relays the message
[12:37] Rex Cronon: if u collide with that avatar than a lsl script detects a collision but its empty
[12:38] Andrew Linden: really?
[12:38] Jonathan Yap: Maybe it is time for a better way to preview an upload
[12:38] Andrew Linden: I feel like you guys are pulling my leg.
[12:38] Rex Cronon: i am not jocking about this andrew
[12:38] Lucia Nightfire: heh
[12:38] Jonathan Yap: Andrew, we could not all be that clever at once
[12:39] Andrew Linden: So I could make this avatar visible to myself by uploading something?
[12:39] Jonathan Yap: Follow the server upload code, there has to be something going on in there
[12:39] Simon Linden: now I remember ... you used to be able to block the asset AV, and that would kill your uploads :)
[12:39] Rex Cronon: it would take too much effort and coordination to do such an elaborate lie:)
[12:39] Martinrj Fayray: there was some discussion about it: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-28841
[12:39] Jonathan Yap: yes and look at 0,0,0 for it
[12:39] Whirly Fizzle: Yes you can
[12:39] Whirly Fizzle: If you tweak the viewer to show it
[12:40] Andrew Linden: Ok, I'll try it later. Uploading a texture works? or need some other asset?
[12:40] Martinrj Fayray: texture is fine
[12:40] Whirly Fizzle: Anything, texture works as long as you don't ise bilk upload
[12:40] Whirly Fizzle: *bulk
[12:40] Andrew Linden: how do I need to tweak the viewer to show it?
[12:41] Whirly Fizzle: I think it was Simon fixed it from showing on V3... see https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-28841?focusedCommentId=322910&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-322910
[12:41] Martinrj Fayray: the easiest method would surely be to use a viewer without the fix for VWR-28841
[12:41] Simon Linden: There's a "mIsDummy" flag on the avatar object that is true for this special case
[12:42] Martinrj Fayray: Second Life 3.3.1 (254524)
[12:42] Andrew Linden: I'm using a really old Linux viewer now.
[12:43] Jonathan Yap: Andrew, did you write the upload code in 2003 or so?
[12:43] Whirly Fizzle: Oh well, here. This build still displayed the asset avatar http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Release/3.3.1
[12:43] Andrew Linden: well, maybe nto that old. 3.6.4... a test version of project interesting I guess.
[12:43] Whirly Fizzle: Just change channel to get past the updater
[12:43] Whirly Fizzle: :D
[12:44] Andrew Linden: No, I didn't write the upload code. Some of that was Phoenix.
[12:44] Andrew Linden: I've got to depart a bit early today.
[12:44] Andrew Linden: i.e. now
[12:44] Jonathan Yap: Thank you
[12:44] Rex Cronon: tc andrew
[12:44] Andrew Linden: Carry on without me.
[12:44] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Andrew.
[12:45] Jonathan Yap: I just tried an upload and did not see anything at 0,0.0
[12:46] Whirly Fizzle: Try on http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Release/3.3.1
[12:46] Jonathan Yap: my viewer is older than that, so it should show
[12:46] Whirly Fizzle: V3 hid it, then it displayed, then it was fixed again
[12:46] Jonathan Yap: or maybe it is blocked
[12:47] Jonathan Yap: Is there anyone fixing WEB bugs these days, or is that team gone?
[12:47] Simon Linden: can someone repeat what the current problem with the asset AV is?
[12:48] Simon Linden: There are some over-worked people on that, Jonathan
[12:49] Whirly Fizzle: I don't know of any current problem with the asset avatar
[12:49] Lucia Nightfire: still waiting on someone to update teh map api cap key on teh website, lol
[12:49] Lucia Nightfire: been waiting for like 2 years now, lol
[12:52] Lucia Nightfire: also, I'm requireed by teh state to mention that the bomb is still a problem
[12:52] Lucia Nightfire: along with its dirty knock offs
[12:53] Rex Cronon: there is a solution to that lucy. if sim crashes than bomb stops:)
[12:53] Simon Linden: yeah, there are a lot of different attacks inside that thing
[12:53] Lucia Nightfire: yeah, but there are so many now that emulate the effects that return and continue the behavior
[12:54] Lucia Nightfire: what people are doing now are either repeatedly rezzing high prim coutn coalesced objects off-world or on a no rez parcel
[12:54] Lucia Nightfire: has the same effect, but not as long, depends on teh object count
[12:54] Duckie Dickins: I still think if you did L$ bounties for these exploits, there would be less in the wild and more turned in for the prize. :)
[12:54] Lucia Nightfire: can be sustained easily up to an hour though
[12:55] Rex Cronon: if the lindens don't/can't fix the bomb that very likely means they see sim crashing as the "fix" for the bomb;)
[12:55] Lucia Nightfire: which is surprising that even works
[12:55] Lucia Nightfire: its like asset handling is occurring before parcel checks or rez pos checks
[12:56] Simon Linden: A lot of The Bomb's real issue is once again we need a magical setting like "Only rez benign objects" or "Only run safe scripts"
[12:56] Siwo: I'm not sure if is this the right place to ask this... is there something to report stuck AnnMarie's vehicles? I was told they are all gone already, but.. guess what? There is one near my home :D Both, AnnMarie and the actual parcel owner didn't respond when I tried contact them. ...not that it was doing some harm, but a bus stuck in water way is Interesting :D
[12:56] Adamburp Adamczyk: seewo - contact ldpw
[12:57] Rex Cronon: i think u only need to deny any rezzing on no -rez parcels
[12:57] Adamburp Adamczyk: i did
[12:57] Adamburp Adamczyk: micheal will help on that
[12:57] Lucia Nightfire: there are still those taht get stuck on 0 return parcels
[12:57] Siwo: okay :)
[12:57] Adamburp Adamczyk: if it;s linden owned ladn
[12:57] Whirly Fizzle: They do still pay bounties for some SECs Duckie
[12:57] Whirly Fizzle: 10k
[12:57] Adamburp Adamczyk: the ones i spoke about, the ladn ahd no auto return set
[12:57] Siwo: ehm... it isn't linden land :/
[12:57] Adamburp Adamczyk: ahm, oaky
[12:58] Lucia Nightfire: I never saw money for my crash SEC's, lol
[12:58] Siwo: it has no auto return and no object entry... yet it still made it in the parcel and now... heh
[12:59] Lucia Nightfire: a sitter can defeat no entry
[12:59] Whirly Fizzle: They only pay when its fixed lol
[12:59] Duckie Dickins: They sent you a nice rez day cake for your crash SECs, Lucy
[12:59] Rex Cronon: haha whirly
[13:00] Simon Linden: lol - on that note, thanks everyone for coming this week
[13:00] Jonathan Yap: take care
[13:00] Adamburp Adamczyk: YEEHAW!!!!
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