User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2007 11 20

Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:

[10:59]	Squirrel Wood:	Hello ^^
[10:59]	Andrew Linden:	Hi
[11:00]	Andrew Linden:	Hey Squirrel, are you here to attend my office hours?
[11:00]	Squirrel Wood:	Yuss
[11:00]	Andrew Linden:	Or did you just happen to be nearby?
[11:00]	Andrew Linden:	Ok
[11:00]	Squirrel Wood:	After all I do have a physics roller coaster that havok 4 doesn't like
[11:01]	Andrew Linden:	Does it use the LSL vehicle stuff?
[11:01]	Squirrel Wood:	Nope
[11:01]	Andrew Linden:	So how does it work? And how does it break in Havok4?
[11:01]	Sidewinder Linden:	hi guys :)
[11:01]	Squirrel Wood:	it is a physical object that moves along a prim track using llSetForce
[11:01]	Andrew Linden:	Hi Sidewinder.
[11:02]	Squirrel Wood:	basically it is a torus with a hole that moves along a track made of cylinders
[11:02]	Sidewinder Linden:	i'll be a bit afk for a couple mins... brb
[11:02]	Squirrel Wood:	and whereever two of the track pieces connect it will collide
[11:02]	Andrew Linden:	Ah s.
[11:02]	Andrew Linden:	er... ah yes.
[11:02]	Squirrel Wood:	it works perfect with havok1 though
[11:04]	Squirrel Wood:	this is the basic principle
[11:04]	Andrew Linden:	Yes, I'd expect such a setup to have some troubles in Havok4.
[11:04]	Squirrel Wood:	it moves along the first track piece smoothly
[11:05]	Squirrel Wood:	but where the second track piece starts it collides.
[11:05]	Sidewinder Linden:	back
[11:05]	Squirrel Wood:	It also has a tendency to derail in havok 4 where in havok 1 it would just cause the sim to reboot
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah Squirrel, the effects of the corner normals are a bit stronger in Havok4.
[11:06]	Rex Cronon:	hi everybody
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	I added special magic to vehicles to reduce the effect for driving along roads
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	however, that special magic does not affect all objects in general.
[11:06]	Squirrel Wood:	Soft Linden should be able to give you an asset ID for a test track which you can rez on the beta grid
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	Also, there is a fragility of such a setup on Havok4 when the physics engine gets lagged -- some objects will tend to get boxified temporarily.
[11:07]	Seph Swain:	Hi there.
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	This is the "RCCS" (runtime collision control system)
[11:07]	Squirrel Wood:	So I have noticed
[11:07]	Squirrel Wood:	/ao off
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	The nice thing about the RCCS is that it really is the only thing standing between you and crippling lag from the physics engine...
[11:08]	Squirrel Wood:	unless a megaprim decides to interfere ^^
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	since regardless of how fast the physics engine is you can always just throw more objects at it until it lags.
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	The bad thing about the RCCS is that it isn't very smart yet, and will boxify anything that is colliding at all when the lag hits... not necessarily just the offending pile of objects.
[11:10]	Squirrel Wood:	Ah. So it needs a bit more work :)
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	That is, it doesn't yet focus on the objects that are causing most of the lag -- they are affected, but so are all other objects at the same time.
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	Yes. Simon Linden is currently working on that. A first pass anyway to solve some problems causing objects to fall through the terrain.
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	The RCCS will new a few iterations
[11:11]	Squirrel Wood:	You'll get it right :)
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	however, we may try to find people willing to try it out before it is totally done.
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	I've got one announcement to make, I'll make it again at the end of the hour...
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	I won't be holding office hours this Thursday (Thanksgiving in the US)
[11:12]	Squirrel Wood:	On a decent sim one of my coaster carts will add about 2-3ms of physics processing time on havok 1
[11:12]	Uildiar Kuhn:	omg
[11:12]	Uildiar Kuhn:	its almost thanks giving already
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	since I'll be on the road, or at least at someone elses house.
[11:12]	Uildiar Kuhn:	I didnt even notice
[11:13]	Uildiar Kuhn:	#@% yeah
[11:13]	Uildiar Kuhn:	turkey
[11:13]	Uildiar Kuhn:	nom nom
[11:13]	Sidewinder Linden:	btw squirrel - at the moment all the simulator hosts on the beta preview are still class 4 hardware
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	The update on Havok4 is...
[11:13]	Sidewinder Linden:	not class 5 - so if you're comparing against a class 5 on the main system it'll be different performance-wise
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	There has been no official update to the preview since... I forget, but more than a week ago, becuase we're trying to first fix an annoying bug where objects will fall through the heightfield (terrain).
[11:14]	Squirrel Wood:	I have tested the coaster on class 3, 4 and 5 sims on havok 1 without problems - except for the sim crashes when havok decides that the cart has derailed
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	There are a number of bugs we're focusing on, in an attempt to get it usable for some subset of estate owners
[11:15]	Sidewinder Linden:	hi kitto
[11:15]	Kitto Flora:	Hello :)
[11:15]	Rex Cronon:	hi
[11:15]	Squirrel Wood:	I know its the cart causing the sim to reboot as the script and physics for the cart are both turned off when the sim comes back online
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	At the moment I'm working on getting the avatar to sit where you actually click.
[11:16]	Squirrel Wood:	^^
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	Simon Linden is working on the RCCS
[11:16]	Kitto Flora:	What is RCCS here?
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	RCCS = Runtime Collision Control System
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	it is a bit of code in the Havok4 project
[11:17]	Kitto Flora:	ty
[11:17]	Andrew Linden:	that throttles collisions when the lag gets really bad
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	Since it is bypassing collisions, or temporarily simplifying object shapes, or temporarily pinning some objects in place, it has some annoying artifacts
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	We're going to try to make it smarter.
[11:18]	Squirrel Wood:	yikes. 47 pending downloads
[11:19]	Rex Cronon:	can u predict what is going to do?
[11:19]	Uildiar Kuhn:	..
[11:19]	Andrew Linden:	Rex, are you asking if the RCCS behavior is "predictable"?
[11:19]	Rex Cronon:	yes
[11:19]	Uildiar Kuhn:	rezzz
[11:20]	Kitto Flora:	Maybe - what the effect of 'throttling' is ?
[11:20]	Kitto Flora:	Do objects start interpenetrating when collision detect fails?
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	It is somewhat, but I expect its behavior to change. It has an algorthm where it decides to take action.
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	The three things it currently does to recover from lag are:
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	(1) abandon creating new collisions for some objects, temporarily pinning the object in place
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	(2) reducing the collision level of detail (LOD) of some objects... usually this means replacing primitives with boxes
[11:22]	Andrew Linden:	(3) indefinitely pinning an object in place (slightly different from (1) where the object is typically re-woken up quickly... within a frame)
[11:23]	Kitto Flora:	How long is the 'temporary'?? mS or seconds?
[11:23]	Rex Cronon:	how does it decide which one of those three actions to take?
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	The temporary pin (1) is jsut long enough to decide whether or not to boxify the object, I think
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	the indefinite pin (3) is until the physics engine starts to recover
[11:24]	Kitto Flora:	I still have no idea of time scale
[11:24]	Andrew Linden:	There are ways to make the artifacts from (1) - (3) less objectionable
[11:25]	Squirrel Wood:	I'd guess the timescale varies depending on the number of physical objects and collisions taking place that need to be examined
[11:25]	Andrew Linden:	a frame is 1/45th of a second at best... but the effect doesn't kick in unless the physics engine gets loaded... so more like 1/20th or 1/10th of a second
[11:25]	Andrew Linden:	indefinitely mean... unknown timescale
[11:26]	Kitto Flora:	Does this exist in MG at present?
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	No, this is Havok4 only
[11:26]	Kitto Flora:	OK
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	Simon added a hook where the RCCS could be disabled at runtime
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	however it is not connected to any user interface yet
[11:27]	Kitto Flora:	I suspect I have not seen this recenly as the H4 sims are very lightly loaded
[11:27]	Andrew Linden:	We'll probably eventually make it available as a admin option
[11:27]	Squirrel Wood:	so if its disabled, physics can and may slow down to a crawl if there's too many collisions ?
[11:27]	Sidewinder Linden:	people were seeing some of this at the start of testing - when folks were dropping hundreds of physical toi around
[11:27]	Sidewinder Linden:	*tori
[11:27]	Kitto Flora:	Yes Sidewinder
[11:28]	Sidewinder Linden:	/oops you said recently - my bad :)
[11:28]	Kitto Flora:	But at that time I could not test trains - too many other bugs
[11:28]	Andrew Linden:	Yes, if it is disabled then the possibility is open for the physics engine to do what we call a "deep think" where it blocks
[11:28]	Andrew Linden:	for anywhere from a significant fraction of a second to several seconds
[11:28]	Andrew Linden:	however, Havok4 won't block as bad as Havok1
[11:28]	Squirrel Wood:	Mayhaps you could still add in a safety timeout for deep think phases?
[11:29]	Andrew Linden:	Yes, that is possible. The RCCS currently has a few parameters
[11:29]	Andrew Linden:	and those could be made open for tweaking via UI
[11:29]	Kitto Flora:	The only part of this RCCS description that worries me is long-term pinning in place. If LSL can run well enough the train would (mis)detect blockage and take recovery action.
[11:29]	Andrew Linden:	also, I was thinking we could add some other params so that it preferentially kicks in for smaller objects first
[11:29]	Sidewinder Linden:	squirrel - this is an area that will possibly get some more work after the first release... we're talking about whether any of that needs to be in the first release... remember that one thing we are trying to do is to get h4 out as soon as possible to reduce th overall sim crash rate
[11:30]	Sidewinder Linden:	so some of these things might be done after an initial version... in other words
[11:30]	Uildiar Kuhn:	nothing uses havok 5 yet
[11:30]	Uildiar Kuhn:	x3
[11:30]	Uildiar Kuhn:	needs more havok 5
[11:30]	Andrew Linden:	Well... the RCCS pins the objects in place, but if you were to query the object with llGetStatus(STATUS_PHYSICS) you would get "TRUE" as an answer
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	even though the physics engine has temporarily pinned the object
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	under the hood
[11:31]	Squirrel Wood:	Hmm... I know that just two physical, intersecting sculpties can take a sim down pretty much instantaneously
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	sculpties actually collide a torii
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	and torri are concave and cause big problems for Havok1
[11:31]	Kitto Flora:	Exactly. Cant tell it from someone edit-stopping the object, or hit some non-physical object.
[11:31]	Uildiar Kuhn:	bringing back the joint system would be Niiice! to
[11:32]	Uildiar Kuhn:	havok1 did it
[11:32]	Andrew Linden:	Joints... there is a great feature that we had to nerf
[11:32]	Uildiar Kuhn:	but havok4 can ahndle it
[11:32]	Andrew Linden:	We will someday bring back joints
[11:32]	Andrew Linden:	however joints will require significant cleanup of a bunch of code
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	it is one of the BIG projects
[11:33]	Kitto Flora:	and a Doctor's prescription?
[11:33]	Squirrel Wood:	I guess you can't have too many joints without the physics engine having to do major processing on them
[11:33]	Rex Cronon:	sometimes in the far future, in a far, far away galaxy:)
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	as such, it is not on the short list (months)
[11:33]	Squirrel Wood:	decades...
[11:33]	Uildiar Kuhn:	x3
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	a year I'd guess
[11:34]	Squirrel Wood:	I'll quote you on that one year from now if I don't forget :p
[11:34]	Rex Cronon:	a year is quite long in a digital world
[11:34]	Andrew Linden:	Er... the timescale for that project is years, but not tens of years.
[11:34]	Andrew Linden:	Let me put it that way.
[11:35]	Uildiar Kuhn:	joints would be hawt for sculptie rag dolls
[11:35]	Uildiar Kuhn:	sling them around
[11:36]	Uildiar Kuhn:	like in garrysmod x3
[11:36]	Uildiar Kuhn:	WEEEEEE
[11:36]	Kitto Flora:	If my guess about when RCCS kicks in is correct, then what the pinning might do to the train is no big problem, may be good, because it goes non-phys, so lightens the load a little. And if the FPS or TD has dropped too, then the train will sleep for 15 secs anyway.
[11:36]	Andrew Linden:	There is another project somewhat related to joints...
[11:36]	Andrew Linden:	heirarchical objects
[11:37]	Kitto Flora:	I suspect heirachical objects might be better tha njoints
[11:37]	Andrew Linden:	I would prefer to do heirarchical objects first, since that would make joints easier
[11:37]	Andrew Linden:	That is, joints would be a special case of heirarchy
[11:37]	Squirrel Wood:	I'd say you guys do whatever needs to be done in the best order to do it :)
[11:38]	Andrew Linden:	I don't think we'll have an update for the Havok4 preview this week anyway...
[11:38]	Andrew Linden:	what with Thanksgiving at the end
[11:38]	Andrew Linden:	so hopefully next week.
[11:39]	Uildiar Kuhn:	everything in a linkset has a hiearchy number already
[11:39]	Kitto Flora:	Whats due for improvement in Beta next?
[11:39]	Uildiar Kuhn:	but meh
[11:40]	Rex Cronon:	seems i have network problems
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	The current blockers for an update are: avatars not sitting right, objects sometimes fall through the heightfield, some broken content maybe caused by expanded collision tolerances,...
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	and one wierd bug that Dan Linden noticed but we don't yet have a repro for
[11:40]	Kitto Flora:	Describe bug?
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	oh... and some bug to do with attachment modifications failing
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	The weird bug was... some dynamic objects would get "pinned" in location, but could spin
[11:42]	Andrew Linden:	That bug is NOT related to RCCS, since the RCCS either totally pins linear and angular motion, or just changes the collision shape.
[11:42]	Kitto Flora:	Linear engine fails whist angular works?
[11:42]	Andrew Linden:	No, the two engines are one.
[11:42]	Kitto Flora:	'drive' ?
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	Most likely there are some "rogue actions"... such as the "grab action" when you click on a dynamic object to move it with the mouse.
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	The 'grab action' allows the object to spin, but is kinda like an llMoveTo
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	unfortunately, I haven't been able to look at it yet
[11:44]	Andrew Linden:	The other bug I'm currently working on is somewhat interesting...
[11:44]	Squirrel Wood:	hmm... trying to run a second directx application while SL is active will make SL render anything and everything fullbright and 100% glow
[11:45]	Andrew Linden:	The fireworks launcher in the library doesn't work... the rocket collides with its launcher and explodes immediately
[11:45]	Sidewinder Linden:	/second... actually sl is an opengl app.. ? (squirrel)
[11:45]	Andrew Linden:	I don't think this is caused by the RCCS, but I have yet to test that to be sure.
[11:45]	Sidewinder Linden:	/sounds like a video card driver interaction/bug - which video card are you using squirrel?
[11:46]	Andrew Linden:	The interesting thing about it is... if the collision tolerance betwee various shapes changes subtly
[11:46]	Andrew Linden:	then various content will break
[11:46]	Squirrel Wood:	nvidia 7950gt
[11:47]	Andrew Linden:	so ideally whenever the physics engine changes significantly
[11:47]	Andrew Linden:	then we'
[11:47]	Rex Cronon:	like everything that explodes on collision?
[11:47]	Andrew Linden:	then we'll probably have to make sure to reduce the collision tolerance at the same time... to reduce such broken content
[11:47]	Andrew Linden:	no... most stuff should be fine
[11:47]	Andrew Linden:	however, some small subset of content is probably affected by this bug
[11:48]	Andrew Linden:	that is, the content was carefully adjusted so that it just barely works
[11:49]	Kitto Flora:	I tested a lot of guns that use various colliding bullets and didnt notice any large oddities
[11:49]	Andrew Linden:	and when the physics engin changes then some things stop working just because they don't have any slop to spare
[11:49]	Kitto Flora:	But that is large scale collision
[11:49]	Andrew Linden:	yeah. I have no idea how much stuff other than the library's Fireworks launcher is affected
[11:51]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... no rezzy. Pending downloads for this region is now 44
[11:51]	Kitto Flora:	The train uses collision on the order of 10cm scale, but it is being affected by the llSetPos() issue, so is a bit messed up. However its not showing anything odd otherside
[11:51]	Andrew Linden decline 'Rocket Launcher' ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Brampton/107/152/26 ) from Firework Launcher (drag to ground).
[11:51]	Kitto Flora:	otherwise
[11:51]	Andrew Linden:	hrm... that is interesting...
[11:52]	Andrew Linden:	this rocket also blows up immediately
[11:52]	Kitto Flora:	This rings a bell from long ago
[11:52]	Kitto Flora:	YEs
[11:52]	Kitto Flora:	like 3 years ago
[11:52]	Kitto Flora:	I remeber seeing that
[11:52]	Andrew Linden:	pardon me while I do some regression testing here... ;-)
[11:53]	Andrew Linden:	excellent. It is broken in Havok1
[11:53]	Sidewinder Linden:	hehe
[11:53]	Andrew Linden:	which means I don't have to fix it in Havok4
[11:53]	Kitto Flora:	I kinda remember there was a bug in it
[11:53]	Sidewinder Linden:	thanks kitto :)
[11:54]	Squirrel Wood:	^^
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	I verified that it almost works in Havok4.
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	If you remove the little disks on the launcher's pole it works fine in Havok4
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	so the collisions are between the rocket and those little decorative disks.
[11:54]	Sidewinder Linden:	heh
[11:55]	Sidewinder Linden:	maybe the fix is to fix the rocket launcher design? ;)
[11:55]	Rex Cronon:	ty
[11:55]	Kitto Flora:	No longer have any mod version of the library one in Inv. Dissappeared in the Great Loss
[11:56]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah. I think the library content is copyable... so maybe someone made a copy and that is sitting in their inventory somehere.
[11:56]	Andrew Linden:	Oh well, no huge problem. The library stuff is modifiable too.
[11:56]	Kitto Flora:	I remeber picking it apart.. and maybe fixing something
[11:56]	Andrew Linden:	The Kart 1.0 needs some work too.
[11:57]	Andrew Linden:	I mentioned earlier today, but I wanted to reiterate near the end of the hour -- I won't be holding office hours this Thursday
[11:57]	Kitto Flora:	I tried Kart - seemed ok.. with the usual fix
[11:57]	Andrew Linden:	since I'll be out of town and off the grid
[11:57]	Seph Swain:	Kart1.0 is borken in Havoc1, too. It doesn't drive on high places.
[11:57]	Squirrel Wood:	Oh... one more thing...
[11:57]	Andrew Linden:	er... offline
[11:58]	Squirrel Wood:	I found a post in the scripting forum today that points to a script that apparently seems to circumvent autoreturn
[11:58]	Squirrel Wood:	http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=224630
[11:58]	Kitto Flora:	Kart has a line in the script to kill forward motion if its more than 2(?) M abouve ground
[11:58]	Kitto Flora:	Hence it will not cross bridges as-is
[11:59]	Sidewinder Linden:	/kitto - that's a kart bug right?
[11:59]	Kitto Flora:	Probably put in to stop it motoring up into the sky
[11:59]	Rex Cronon:	what does it do squirel
[11:59]	Rex Cronon:	?
[11:59]	Kitto Flora:	bug/feature
[11:59]	Seph Swain:	Is there news about how to get Havoc4 as early as possbiel ? We had about 10 sim crashes last Thursday during a 4hour event..
[11:59]	Squirrel Wood:	unlink - relink
[11:59]	Squirrel Wood:	which seems to reset the timer for autoreturn
[11:59]	Rex Cronon:	sadly i can't access the forums suirrel
[12:00]	Squirrel Wood:	hmm.. let me get the wiki link then
[12:00]	Andrew Linden:	Seph, the timeline for some early trials of Havok4 is mid Dec or so, but before the end of the year.
[12:00]	Squirrel Wood:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Jana_Kamachi/NoReturn
[12:00]	Seph Swain:	Thanks Andrew.
[12:00]	Andrew Linden:	Seph, those four crashes... were they on a private estate?
[12:01]	Kitto Flora:	One update - I did retry that lean peculiarity in aonthe H1 sim. and checked that both H1 sims are running H1 by rolling a ball
[12:01]	Andrew Linden:	(Yes Squirrel, that script will defeat autoreturn)
[12:01]	Seph Swain:	Andrew: Yes. Magrathea. We have car racing there.
[12:01]	Kitto Flora:	Conclusion - Beta H1 sims are not same as MG. OR the viewer is different
[12:01]	Andrew Linden:	Oh... unfortunately vehicles are still rather buggy in Havok4
[12:02]	Rex Cronon:	kitto, u need the scripts for the rocket booster, and rocket launcher?
[12:02]	Squirrel Wood:	Then this script is obviously taking advantage of a bug
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	and we'll probably try to do some early trials in regions that are NOT relying on vehicles
[12:02]	Kitto Flora:	Actully the majority of my vehicles work quite well
[12:02]	Seph Swain:	Andrew: ic :)
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	Oh really? Hrm...
[12:02]	Kitto Flora:	YEah
[12:02]	Kitto Flora:	I was surprised how well
[12:02]	Seph Swain:	My test on beta Grid were all 100% ok, too, but it's hard to test without a known environment and no load on the sims.
[12:02]	Kitto Flora:	Rocket - not really in my bailywick
[12:03]	Andrew Linden:	Well, there are a lot of vehicle bugs open. I'm kinda ignoring those for now while we knock some other stuff down.
[12:03]	Kitto Flora:	Some old vage vehicle bugs were probably due to things that got fixed
[12:03]	Andrew Linden:	Well Seph, if that is the case we could consider trialing your estate with Havok4.
[12:03]	Kitto Flora:	The sim border crossing wrong change message...
[12:04]	Andrew Linden:	We'll be testing various regions on the preview first anyway, at least in the beginning.
[12:04]	Kitto Flora:	llSetPos() probably accounts for a lot more
[12:04]	Seph Swain:	Andrew: It can't get worse than now...we sometimes have double crahes, ie. two crahes in an interval of two or three minutes.
[12:04]	Andrew Linden:	So if you were willing to try it I don't see why it would be out of the question.
[12:05]	Andrew Linden:	Ok Seph good to know. BTW, are you the actual estate owner? Or just a frequent visitor?
[12:05]	Seph Swain:	Andrew: Estate Manager and I'm paying the bill, but my avatar is not listed as owner.
[12:05]	Andrew Linden:	I don't know how the very early Havok4 trials will be selected, but the initial list will be very small (dozen or less).
[12:06]	Andrew Linden:	An that will last for a week or so.
[12:06]	Andrew Linden:	Seph, send Sidewinder email if you want to be considered as a candidate for the early trial.
[12:06]	Andrew Linden:	I think he's going to do most of the coordination on that.
[12:06]	Sidewinder Linden:	Septh - the primary things we're looking for are
[12:07]	Sidewinder Linden:	standalone regions (without crossings to H1 sims
[12:07]	Sidewinder Linden:	no need for vehicles to be working (since we won't have that all sorted out)
[12:07]	Sidewinder Linden:	and a reasonably substantial crash rate, or
[12:07]	Andrew Linden:	this table is about to be autoreturned
[12:07]	Sidewinder Linden:	complex builds that will test the linkage code
[12:07]	Sidewinder Linden:	at least for the very first round
[12:08]	Andrew Linden:	Primarily we're interested in finding some estates where we can reduce the crash rates.
[12:08]	Andrew Linden:	Seph says his region crashes a lot
[12:08]	Sidewinder Linden:	right - without taking large risks on people's existing content
[12:08]	Andrew Linden:	however, they are using vehicles quite a bit
[12:08]	Sidewinder Linden:	k
[12:08]	Kitto Flora:	Are MG crash rates actually linked to traffic numbers?
[12:08]	Andrew Linden:	if their vehicles work well enough in Havok4 then I would consider it a candidate... since the crash rate is high and the estate owner is willing
[12:09]	Sidewinder Linden:	seph - what is the name of the region?
[12:09]	Andrew Linden:	of course, we would roll back to Havok1 if Havok4 just did not work.
[12:09]	Seph Swain:	Sidewinder: Magrathea
[12:09]	Sidewinder Linden:	kitto - they can be
[12:09]	Sidewinder Linden:	ok thanks seph
[12:09]	custer Einarmige:	Mind if I sit in on this? I own about half a mainland sim and we make a lot of scripted vehicles
[12:09]	Kitto Flora:	Oh.. er are you talking about early trials of H4 on MG?
[12:09]	Andrew Linden:	There is undoubtedly a correlation between crash rates and traffice numbers
[12:10]	Seph Swain:	Sidewinder: You want an email with a summary ?
[12:10]	Andrew Linden:	but that isn't the only thing, of course
[12:10]	Sidewinder Linden:	sure - that will be handy - sidewinder 'at' lindenlab.com
[12:10]	Andrew Linden:	yeah kitto... the early trials of H4 on SL proper will be to see if it can reduce crash rates
[12:10]	Kitto Flora:	OK
[12:11]	Andrew Linden:	As I mentioned last week... we've fixed all the crash modes that we know about in Havok4
[12:11]	Kitto Flora:	Wish only has high thrash rates. Rarely crashes these days
[12:11]	Andrew Linden:	however the crash-free codebase has not yet been deployed
[12:12]	Andrew Linden:	(except to Bisque and Chartreuse)
[12:12]	Andrew Linden:	Well, thanks for coming. I've got to run now.
[12:12]	Rex Cronon:	bye andrew
[12:12]	Kitto Flora:	Have a good Turkey Day all!
[12:12]	Kitto Flora:	Have a good Turkey Day all!
[12:13]	Rex Cronon:	u too kitto
[12:13]	Sidewinder Linden:	k see you guys... hopefully we will be able to do a beta preview refresh next week
[12:13]	Rex Cronon:	bye sidewinder
[12:13]	Sidewinder Linden:	this will depend on some bug fixes and a successful qa pass
[12:13]	Seph Swain:	Bye all, thanks for the fresh info.