User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2008 05 27

Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:

[11:05]	Hulaboom Voom:	as you kow it is diffidcult sometimes to get timeslices of you folks...and I understand why that is :)
[11:05]	Second Life:	Your object 'Object' has been returned to your inventory lost and found folder from parcel 'Crossing the Ravine' at IBM Collaborative 121.428, 51.2661 due to parcel owner return.
[11:05]	Hulaboom Voom:	we start on Friday also... so if we can arrange it during normal business hours that would be fine wiht us
[11:05]	Hulaboom Voom:	can I give you some info (a crad) as reference?
[11:05]	Hulaboom Voom:	card
[11:06]	Simon Linden:	It's probably best to send it directly to Sidewinder, and I'll bug him to make sure he gets back to you
[11:06]	Hulaboom Voom gave you Box of Rail Rally 2008 Posterboards.
[11:06]	Hulaboom Voom:	well anyone that coule speak to the rail developers about H4 is what we were after
[11:06]	Hulaboom Voom:	thank you for your help
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	What is the bug/problem we're talking about?
[11:06]	Simon Linden:	Sure ... not a bug Andrew, but a meeting with scripters
[11:07]	Rex Cronon:	hey andrew
[11:07]	Hulaboom Voom:	many of the scripters that developed trains are having issues going to the h4 platfiorm
[11:07]	Hulaboom Voom:	thats about the extent of my knowledge
[11:07]	Hulaboom Voom:	kkitto knows about this
[11:07]	Hulaboom Voom:	we are having an event this weekend, and asked Sidwinder if her would come and speak wiht the scripters
[11:07]	Hulaboom Voom:	Andrew... or Simon, eiher of you would also be welcome...
[11:08]	Kitto Flora:	Actually I dont know what problems they have... my guess is its mechanical. I dont have any unsolved problems with H4 and my trains.
[11:08]	Hulaboom Voom:	ah... thats good news kitto
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	Did Sidewinder agree to show up and talk?
[11:09]	Hulaboom Voom:	he said that he thought it would work, particulalry if it occured during normal business hours
[11:09]	Hulaboom Voom:	which we can do - Friday
[11:10]	Hulaboom Voom:	more than anything, we would liek to give the oppoortunity for the guys to meet wiht your physics experts
[11:10]	Hulaboom Voom:	you both got the notecard / poster boxes - yes?
[11:10]	Cinthya Loveless:	hey Andrew or Simon whats being done about hugs? those are still as bouncie as ever
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	Sidewinder is knowledgeable and can provide a lot of information, much of it technical. However if a bunch of bugs and problems are going to be presented to him he may cull those bugs and present the big ones to Simon and I in an internal meeting.
[11:11]	Hulaboom Voom:	not at all... in fact we promised it would not be a b**tch" session
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	er... "Simone and me"
[11:12]	Simon Linden:	Simone?
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, then I won't worry about it.
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	whoops Simon
[11:12]	Hulaboom Voom:	maybe you are looking a little ruthie...lol
[11:12]	Cinthya Loveless:	loll
[11:12]	Talarus Luan:	I think he sees you Ruthed :P
[11:12]	Phli Foxchase:	^^
[11:12]	Hulaboom Voom:	lol
[11:12]	Arawn Spitteler:	B!tch sounds like an abbreviation for "Better Tech."
[11:12]	Hulaboom Voom:	well... we are a grassroots group interested in rails
[11:13]	Hulaboom Voom:	and not a poltical group...
[11:13]	Cinthya Loveless:	Andrew are a fix for bouncie hugs coming?
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	Yes Hulaboom I got the notecard /poster boxes.
[11:13]	Hulaboom Voom:	thank-you...
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	Cinthya, hugs are "bouncie'?
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	Could you elaborate on that?
[11:13]	Hulaboom Voom:	our best course of action is to ask Sidwinder directly then, or can you folks make time to come for an hour?
[11:13]	Cinthya Loveless:	yes they the hugger bounces up and down
[11:13]	Cinthya Loveless:	really fast
[11:14]	Talarus Luan:	Bouncy hugs? You mean the ones where the hug attachment keeps pushing you into the huggee because it never thinks you are close enough? :D
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	I haven't hear or witnessed that problem yet Cinthya.
[11:14]	Arawn Spitteler wonders: Have you spoken to any environmental design Lindens, Hula?
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	Could you give me a copy of the bugged hugger now?
[11:14]	Talarus Luan:	Easy enough to demonstrate
[11:14]	Hulaboom Voom:	no... Arwen, perhaps you could elaborate on that:)
[11:14]	Hulaboom Voom:	arawen
[11:15]	Phli Foxchase:	I have a question about a bug I found in lsl last week: llSetPrimParams(..[PRIM_POSITION..)
[11:15]	Cinthya Loveless:	yes diging it out now
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	Ask the question Phili.
[11:15]	Arawn Spitteler:	The people who tell the rails where to be laid. The Mole Group Lindens, like Blue, or someother fellow I've forgotten the name of.
[11:15]	Phli Foxchase:	I can't move a child prim from a script in a root prim with this fonction
[11:15]	Phli Foxchase:	but I can do it with a script in a child prim
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	Arawn is refering to the "Department of Public Works" group I think.
[11:16]	Talarus Luan:	You have to use llSetLinkPrimitiveParams for other prims
[11:16]	Arawn Spitteler:	Yeah, they with a lot of rail to update.
[11:16]	Phli Foxchase:	Yes sorry, i would like to say llSetLinkPrimParams*
[11:17]	Simon Linden:	Phli - was this something that used to work, and now doesn't?
[11:17]	Talarus Luan:	You also have to be aware of the Link distance. :)
[11:17]	Andrew Linden:	Phli, has a jira item been entered on the problem yet? What is the number?
[11:17]	Arawn Spitteler:	Gasp! I just tossed myself acros a sim border, the other day, with that one.
[11:17]	Phli Foxchase:	Let me find it
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	hrm... I'm getting errors trying to visit jira.secondlife.com
[11:18]	Talarus Luan is not surprised. :P
[11:18]	Arawn Spitteler's whole Firefox is borked, at the moment.
[11:18]	Hulaboom Voom:	sorry to jump around... i was Iming Sidwinder... the issue is not where th rails are, but getting the engines that were on the previous platform to work
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	Oh, nevermind.
[11:18]	Hulaboom Voom:	...and to have some Linden involvement whit the group...t here is a great deal of interest
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	Michael Linden is interested in Trains. He is also the main Linden in charge of the Department of Public Works.
[11:20]	Hulaboom Voom:	yes... :) jack sent me to Michael, who sent me to you and sidewinder :)
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	However, if there are bugs in the trains, vehicles, or LSL scripts then you may want to set up a troubleshooting session with me sometime.
[11:20]	Arawn Spitteler thinks the engines would work, if the rail were re-layed: But, when the collision Buffer was added, it essentially changed the prim shape, to something different than visible.
[11:20]	Hulaboom Voom:	the primary issue the cripter are having is conversion to the h4 platform
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	I need to get back into vehicle bugs again.
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	Perhaps we could schedule a "vehicle debugging session" this week, for an hour sometime.
[11:21]	Hulaboom Voom:	could we do that Friday... at the site of the rail ralley?
[11:21]	Hulaboom Voom:	that would be splendid...:)
[11:21]	Talarus Luan:	Rex.. you seem to have acquired a hood ornament. O.o
[11:21]	Kitto Flora suspects the train issue is all about collisions with the edges of the prims.
[11:21]	Rex Cronon:	lol
[11:22]	Andrew Linden:	Friday may be possible... what time?
[11:22]	Hulaboom Voom:	in the afternoon SLT
[11:22]	Rex Cronon:	elric. do u see where u r sitting:)
[11:22]	Hulaboom Voom:	when would you be available?
[11:22]	Elric Ember:	no i didn't. sorry
[11:22]	Rex Cronon:	np. it was funny.lol
[11:22]	Andrew Linden:	Friday is a bit tricky... mid morning or early afternoon would be best.
[11:23]	Hulaboom Voom:	alrighty then... you name your time and we will make that avaialble for you
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	After about 10:00 and before 15:00... actually 14:30 is a hard stop for me.
[11:23]	Hulaboom Voom:	so.. let's shoot for 13:30 then?
[11:23]	Talarus Luan:	$F4?
[11:24]	Andrew Linden:	Ok Hulaboom, do you have a location in mind already?
[11:24]	Hulaboom Voom:	tat way you can count on only 1 hour
[11:24]	Hulaboom Voom:	yes... let me get the LM :)
[11:24]	Andrew Linden:	ok... Cinthya, do you have that hugger bug demo yet?
[11:24]	Talarus Luan:	I think she poofed
[11:24]	Andrew Linden:	hrm... she seems to have vanished
[11:25]	Talarus Luan:	But I think I know what she was talking about.
[11:25]	Talarus Luan:	It's the standard Hello multitool freebie
[11:25]	Jessica Kabumpo:	Lawl ^-^
[11:25]	Talarus Luan:	It has a compatibility issue
[11:25]	Andrew Linden:	I'll be needing a copy of the bugged object.
[11:25]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Actually, it affects more than just that one.
[11:25]	Jessica Kabumpo:	there's a bug with using the !stand command
[11:25]	Talarus Luan:	Yeah, probably, since many more are based on the same code :P
[11:26]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of one, but I have friends who do. Basically haven't be able to /hug since H4.
[11:26]	Talarus Luan gave you HelloMultiTool-v6 (hug/kiss/goto/etc).
[11:26]	Ilsa Munro:	Sorry :)
[11:26]	Talarus Luan:	Anyone else want a copy?
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	Thanks Telarus, I'll test it out later today.
[11:26]	Talarus Luan:	Just !hug <name>
[11:26]	Rex Cronon:	a copy of what?
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	Ok thanks.
[11:27]	Talarus Luan:	Hello multitool hugger
[11:27]	Kitto Flora:	I had a resident tell me about crashing a sim by resizing a temp object, and possibly something to do with PHYSICAL (though I dont see how). Is such a sim crash known about, or was fixed?
[11:27]	Andrew Linden:	Kitto, yes there is a crash mode there.
[11:27]	Andrew Linden:	However, it isn't a single temp object... it is a large pile of them.
[11:27]	Andrew Linden:	There are some fixes for that which hopefully will be in Server 1.23
[11:27]	Kitto Flora:	OK TY :)
[11:27]	Andrew Linden:	however the problem is not completely fixed.
[11:28]	Arawn Spitteler has the standard freebie hug, on his mouth, where it's never been a problem: Ilsa was just asking about Vehicle Settings, and it might be a good idea to ask how far she got into the Tutorial, while the author is still here.
[11:28]	Ilsa Munro:	Hi, thanks
[11:29]	Ilsa Munro:	Actually I"m slowly going through trying to undersdtand the vaious attributes and adding extensive comments tot he script
[11:29]	Andrew Linden:	Somewhat related to that problem... there is a bug that allows parcel owners on some private regions to get more prims than they should be allowed
[11:29]	Arawn Spitteler:	Temp Objects are causing trouble? I was just hearing of Lag caused by some Anti-personel mines, I helped rescript.
[11:29]	Andrew Linden:	There is a fix that is going to crack down on that... somewhat but not completely, which I hope to get into 1.23
[11:29]	Hulaboom Voom gave you Sanctuary Residential Waterfront, Vicina (57, 70, 40).
[11:29]	Hulaboom Voom:	I have thre landmark... would anyone else like that?
[11:30]	Andrew Linden:	However, later today I need to do a scan to figure out which regions are going to be affected.
[11:30]	Elric Ember:	Yes please.
[11:30]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, so I'm going to try to show up for a 'vehicle session" this Friday at 13:30 ... at Sanctuary Residential Waterfront, Vicina (57, 70, 40)
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	If you have a bugged vehicle then feel free to come by.
[11:31]	Arawn Spitteler:	It's Temp Rezzers, that are soaking up the thousand prim excess, of some sims?
[11:31]	Hulaboom Voom:	yay! there is a meta diety :)!
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	Hulaboom, is that region publicly available?
[11:31]	Hulaboom Voom:	yes... it is :)
[11:31]	Hulaboom Voom:	there's a buod there for the rail events
[11:31]	Ilsa Munro:	Oh I'm so there
[11:31]	Hulaboom Voom:	the events go all weekend
[11:31]	Hulaboom Voom:	build
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	Ok good. I can't hold a public debugging meeting in a closed region.
[11:31]	Super Collider v2.1 whispers: Super Collider commands: collide on, collide off
[11:32]	Hulaboom Voom:	thank-you so much
[11:32]	Andrew Linden:	Cinthya, Telarus gave me a copy of a hugger that supposedly suffers from the bug you were talking about.
[11:32]	Arawn Spitteler:	WB, Cynthia. I recall our first Vehicle Debug Session was in a closed region; that's where I learned the power of a God Mode TP
[11:32]	Andrew Linden:	What I've got is: HelloMultiTool-v6
[11:32]	Cinthya Loveless:	Andrew I can't get the hugger right now i thought I had a copy but i don't I'll get it form my friend and send it to you
[11:32]	Jessica Kabumpo:	whoa
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah Arawn, that was in the Beta... PSU CS199 I think
[11:33]	Jessica Kabumpo:	my old one was a v5 .... sstopped hugging two days ago
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	I wanted to specifically test some problems in that region and didn't realize it was not public.
[11:33]	Jessica Kabumpo:	my new hugger still works :)
[11:33]	Arawn Spitteler:	btw, that God Mode Teleport might be handy for Estate Owners, as well.
[11:34]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... some powers it makes sense for Estate Owners to have... I wonder if that is one of them.
[11:35]	Talarus Luan:	I think the problem with the hugger is that the critical distance to stop the "push me towards the huggee" impulses is never satisfied because of a probably slight increase in AV bounding box size.
[11:35]	Talarus Luan:	The tolerance was already pretty close.
[11:35]	Andrew Linden:	Yes, that sounds likely Telarus.
[11:35]	Arawn Spitteler:	It seems to make some sense, for Owners, an their Tenants in Lieu, should have the authority to say, "If you're on these premises, it shall be Here."
[11:36]	Jessica Kabumpo:	I know one person the hugger does not work for, it keeps pushing them upward during the hug, making it look like they're humping the person they're hugging. :/
[11:36]	Talarus Luan:	Yes, that's the problem
[11:36]	Arawn Spitteler:	Works for me
[11:36]	Andrew Linden:	I had increased the size of the avatar's collision body... however I didn't think that change had been deployed yet.
[11:36]	Jessica Kabumpo:	I've seen them go up as far as 40m, leaving pawprints in the air the whole way up
[11:36]	Andrew Linden:	Meanwhile, there are still huggers that are letting the avatar's get too close, so I hear.
[11:36]	Kitto Flora:	Jessica: Is the problem Av also running an AO?
[11:36]	Talarus Luan:	Hehe.. that's probably because the impulses get a little too intense. ;)
[11:37]	Jessica Kabumpo:	no, he doesn't have an AO
[11:37]	Andrew Linden:	Were these huggers modified after the Havok4 release of April 1st?
[11:37]	Talarus Luan:	Nope
[11:37]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm...
[11:37]	Andrew Linden:	well one of the things I need to do is test a bunch of huggers, but I've been having difficulty getting copies
[11:37]	Talarus Luan:	I hadn't used one in a while (not too many people want hugs from a big, spiney Dragon nowadays :( ), but noticed it recently.
[11:37]	Andrew Linden:	I lost the last box of Huggers that Dan Linden gave me on the test grid
[11:38]	Andrew Linden:	I need to get another copy
[11:38]	Andrew Linden makes a note of it.
[11:39]	Jessica Kabumpo:	my hugger has sometimes placed me inside another AV, or yesterday it placed me behind them on finish
[11:39]	Andrew Linden:	What does everyone think about Estate Owners/Managers being able to force teleport Residents on their estate?
[11:39]	Talarus Luan:	O.o
[11:39]	Kitto Flora:	Is that MultiTool-Hello-v5 or HelloMultiTool-v6 ?
[11:39]	Andrew Linden:	Jessica, can I have a copy of that hugger?
[11:39]	Talarus Luan:	Define that a little better. :P
[11:40]	Talarus Luan:	to or from their estate?
[11:40]	Jessica Kabumpo:	I can't copy it, but I can tell you from what region I got it from.
[11:40]	Rex Cronon:	I think the person that is going to be teleported is the one that should decide if the tp takes place or not
[11:40]	Jessica Kabumpo:	"Child HelloMultiTool 5 function (high5, kneelhug, eskimo, etc)"
[11:40]	Arawn Spitteler:	Within
[11:40]	Talarus Luan:	Well, you can already TP them home via script.
[11:40]	Talarus Luan:	Summoning is more or less possible via profile
[11:40]	Gaius Goodliffe:	I could see uses for that if it was scriptable.
[11:40]	Arawn Spitteler:	It's a matter of Drama Containment/ Security, rather than being nice.
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	Well the way the feature works for admin mode is that if a Linden offers a teleport then the offeree shows up at that Linden's location.
[11:41]	Jessica Kabumpo:	I got it in "Little Paradise"
[11:41]	Talarus Luan:	OK, so more or less a TP-to-me as opposed to a TP home?
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	Yes
[11:41]	Talarus Luan:	Same as a normal profile summon, just without asking, as long as you are on that estate
[11:42]	Kitto Flora:	@tel <offender> = here
[11:42]	Talarus Luan:	Hmmm.
[11:42]	Andrew Linden:	Is that a power Estate Owners should have?
[11:42]	Rex Cronon:	I think it should be quite obvious that nobody can tp anybody else to a place they don't want to go. u might throw people out, but u shouldn't be able to bring them to u, unless they agree
[11:42]	Andrew Linden:	Can you think of how it might be abused?
[11:43]	Talarus Luan:	Well, it can't be abused any worse than any other estate power, though I would recommend it not be scriptable.
[11:43]	Arawn Spitteler prefers to describe it as "Summon Evil:" Essentially, it's a power Lindens shouls have, as agents of Server Owner, so Agents of Estate Owner would be a logical parrallel.
[11:43]	Jessica Kabumpo:	I can see Estate owners keeping people on their land if threre's no auth confirm
[11:43]	Arawn Spitteler:	Lindens can't force TP anybody from AIM or Compuserve.
[11:43]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Estate owners are essentially server owners for their own servers.
[11:43]	Rex Cronon:	that shouldn't be allowed unless the person to be tp agrees to it
[11:43]	Talarus Luan:	Ban, Eject (though mostly useless for Private estates), TP Home, Summon.
[11:44]	Talarus Luan:	Freeze
[11:44]	Cinthya Loveless:	you can bann eject and teleprot home people out of your island
[11:44]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Did they fix the bug where you can't teleport home people whose home position no longer exists?
[11:44]	Arawn Spitteler would like some Scrootch Scripting Options: An estate owner might like to talk to a person, before Banishing.
[11:44]	Talarus Luan:	Eject just throws them into the corner up in the sky.. not real useful for the reason it was originally created for. ;)
[11:45]	Rex Cronon:	yes, but u can't, shouldn't be able to force somebody to come to u, unless they agree
[11:45]	Ilsa Munro:	I targeted ability to suspend scripts might be spiffy if we're just spitballing.
[11:45]	Talarus Luan:	Yeah, I can see that being useful.
[11:45]	Andrew Linden:	There are a number of admin capabilities that should and probably will eventually migrate into the Estate Owner/Manager domain.
[11:45]	Andrew Linden:	And a few that have already been movedd.
[11:45]	Cinthya Loveless:	good we need more thats forsure
[11:45]	Talarus Luan:	Cool :)
[11:46]	Kitto Flora:	I tend to agree with Rex. One can always IM a resident to discuss infractions. Face t o face is not necessary.
[11:46]	Rex Cronon:	think about this. u r with your partner in a seclude place, and suddenly u get teleported somewhere else. how would u like that?
[11:46]	Andrew Linden:	I'm not going to jump on making TP overrides available to Estate Owners, but I suspect it may eventually happen. There are a few other features I'd like to move over first.
[11:46]	Simon Linden:	Teleportus Interrruptus?
[11:46]	Talarus Luan:	Well, if they are griefing in a sandbox, for example, you can force TP them to a secure area which has everything turned off
[11:47]	Gaius Goodliffe:	lol
[11:47]	Elric Ember:	If tps are an analog to hyperlinks(slurls), I don't like my browser auto opening hyperlinks.
[11:47]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... good point Rex. Perhaps just better kick tools are needed.
[11:47]	Talarus Luan:	Well, people don't usually grief websites. :P
[11:47]	Kitto Flora:	If they are griefing in your sandbox, kick em out of the region and ban them
[11:47]	Talarus Luan:	Yeah, you can do that too, IF you can get into the region to access the estate tools for it
[11:48]	Arawn Spitteler:	Mystic Academy has a bit of Drama Control, to learn about.
[11:48]	Rex Cronon:	imagine this, u r in the middle of a business transaction, and somebody teleports u out, and u crash. the person who u were trying to do business with will certainly be ofended
[11:48]	Talarus Luan:	Though you can do an estate ban from anywhere in the estate
[11:48]	Talarus Luan:	Unless you have multiple estates
[11:49]	Talarus Luan:	Well, I don't think it is any worse than a random ban.
[11:49]	Talarus Luan:	It needs to be considered as a highly-privileged tool, not a toy.
[11:49]	Andrew Linden:	Estate tools definitely need some help.
[11:49]	Cinthya Loveless:	it would be nice to be ablt to monitor the island form a remote location like a website and take care of issues such as griefers, as when they are trying to crash the island sometimes its almost not possible to get them out and the stuff removed befroe it goes down to do the lagg it causes, it would be nice to have the option of doing this form remote location
[11:49]	Talarus Luan:	Estate Owners who play with bans, TP homes, ejects, etc don't need to have visitors. :)
[11:50]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Rex: Yes, there are a million bad things the owner of a server could do if the owner is evil and you're on his server. There's also a million great things content providers could do if they have a means in the code to do them. The question is, is it better to deny everyone an ability because some server owners might be bad, or to allow it because most are good, and just avoid going to sims run by griefers (at least more than once).
[11:50]	Andrew Linden:	Right, bad behavior by Estate owners has its own checks and balances.
[11:50]	Talarus Luan:	If we had such a utility on the Isle of Wyrms, the EM staff would be under strict rules as to its proper use, just like the rest of the tools.
[11:51]	Talarus Luan:	They abuse it, they lose EM authority
[11:51]	Rex Cronon:	oh, i think i am being missunderstood. i am not against it. Is VERY imprtant that the person being teleported agrees to it.
[11:51]	Andrew Linden:	One of the features I'd really like to work on is opening up info on the Servers via web services. However, for private estates those services would require authentication.
[11:51]	Cinthya Loveless:	hey the estate owner is the one paying the bill so if your in there island your under thier mercy
[11:52]	Talarus Luan:	Rex, I think the idea is that they don't get a say. :)
[11:52]	Talarus Luan:	Otherwise, it just duplicates existing functionality.
[11:52]	Cinthya Loveless:	extate owners get all of the say in the island they have since they bought and are paying for the island
[11:53]	Gaius Goodliffe:	'
[11:53]	Andrew Linden:	Telarus, is correct. The feature we're talking about is a TP override... the teleportee does not have a say.
[11:53]	Arawn Spitteler wonders if the Linden TP will work on the IBM SubGrid.
[11:53]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Combined with the ability to script it, and specify a destination, it'd be a wicked useful too.
[11:53]	Gaius Goodliffe:	*tool
[11:54]	Hulaboom Voom likes the sound of wicked useful...
[11:54]	Arawn Spitteler:	Such scripting would be of additional luxury to the combat sims.
[11:54]	Gaius Goodliffe nods.
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	I'd bet that the feature would work on the IBM SubGrid... as long as the IBM firewall didn't get in the way.
[11:54]	Gaius Goodliffe:	There's actually a lot of game-like scenarios where such an ability is required.
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	However, that admin TP feature needs work...
[11:54]	Rex Cronon:	people are not toys for others to play with them. they have dignity.
[11:54]	Talarus Luan:	Ehh... I can envision some serious abuse of that.. rapid-fire forced teleports. :-/
[11:55]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Rex: Straw man.
[11:55]	Rex Cronon:	if such thing is allowed is possible that quite a few won't be happy
[11:56]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Then they won't return to whatever game sim is hosting the game they don't like, Rex. Don't see a problem.
[11:56]	Arawn Spitteler:	Some sims might be inappropriate, for some dignity.
[11:56]	Andrew Linden:	No worries, I'm not going to work on it, but I was curious to see what everybody's opinions were.
[11:57]	Rex Cronon:	let me get this straight gauis, u won't mind if somebody can tp u around, without u having any say in it?
[11:57]	Ilsa Munro:	Would it be an optional feature such as damage, and could an indicator appear, again like damage so resis know that they're in a admin TP region?
[11:57]	Andrew Linden:	No, I doubt it would be optional.
[11:57]	Andrew Linden:	That is... it is extra work to add that kind of granularity to the feature.
[11:58]	Gaius Goodliffe:	If I'm in their sim, playing whatever game that would require this ability, yes. I would be very much annoyed if some silly dialog box came up every time to prevent the game from function. Do you mind when the TV program you're watching changes scenes without you being given a confirmation dialog?
[11:58]	Talarus Luan:	I don't mind. They can already do worse to me
[11:58]	Talarus Luan:	If they annoy me, I will leave and not come back
[11:58]	Talarus Luan:	..after biting them first, of course. :P
[11:58]	Hulaboom Voom:	ouch
[11:59]	Serena Magic:	Can we have an option to disable the notification and auto-teleport when summoned by SELECT friends?
[11:59]	Andrew Linden:	? Serena, are you talking about a current feature?
[11:59]	Rex Cronon:	people should be asked first if they agree to be teleported by others
[11:59]	Talarus Luan:	Quick question before time is up. Any more word on Megaprim Liberate?
[12:00]	Arawn Spitteler:	To open yourself to forced TP, when your master or mate summons? That might be a viewer side option.
[12:00]	Serena Magic:	That's what I'm talking about.
[12:00]	Kitto Flora:	Can we hav an option to substitute a blivit for our Av (as the teleported item)?
[12:00]	Andrew Linden:	Telarus, few new words on the megaprim issue...
[12:00]	Serena Magic:	I'm an alt, and my owner hates to have to click "Teleport" on this laptop when she summons me.
[12:00]	Talarus Luan:	Figured. Last Thursday's log was a little unclear
[12:00]	Serena Magic:	It would be far easier if I could auto-teleport on summon.
[12:01]	Arawn Spitteler:	On my Rail follower HUD, I've got it working, but llSensorRepeat is still inconsistent with lslwiki.
[12:01]	Andrew Linden:	LL had an internal meeting and someone was going to try to formulate an official statment.
[12:01]	Talarus Luan:	Well, I guess I will use the jillion prefab boxed ones for now, then. They fit like crap, but oh well.
[12:01]	Andrew Linden:	But, there was not a clear consensus, as I recall.
[12:01]	Hulaboom Voom:	I need to go... time is up :)
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	This is what I think will happen for megaprims... but this is just a guess...
[12:02]	Hulaboom Voom:	thanks everyone for you patience and time
[12:02]	Arawn Spitteler is glad Hula et al could attend.
[12:02]	Hulaboom Voom:	.. and thanks Adrew for meetiong with us on Friday 1:30p
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	I think we will start to fix the bugs and problems that cause our own internal objections to megaprims
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	and then we'll start opening up some of the limitations.
[12:02]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Rex: You're basically saying no one should be allowed to use SL as a multiuser game platform, because some sim owners might abuse the features required to do so, and some users might not like it but be too silly to just not visit that sim anymore. It doesn't sound reasonable to me.
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	However... there are bugs on the server and the client.
[12:03]	Talarus Luan:	Yeah, I understand. We'll be running into them anyway at this point. ;)
[12:03]	Andrew Linden:	And the groups working on those two chunks of code are becoming more and more separated
[12:03]	Rex Cronon:	what i am saying is that people should be asked if they agree to be tp by others
[12:03]	Andrew Linden:	so there will have to be extra work done to coordinate the two groups.
[12:03]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Right, which means exactly what I just said, since that destroys the ability to create a lot of game content.
[12:04]	Talarus Luan:	I can offer to be a coordinating motivational force, if need be. :D
[12:04]	Arawn Spitteler had simply promised, to mention the Summon Evil Option.
[12:04]	Rex Cronon:	if i go to your sim, u can ask me if i agree to that, if i don't agree than i don't come. simple as that
[12:04]	Hulaboom Voom:	... there's a choice line for a resume
[12:04]	Kitto Flora suspects that the CEO need a bigger lasoo
[12:04]	Talarus Luan:	Going to anyone's sim is Implied Consent (tm)
[12:05]	Arawn Spitteler wants to talk to Zero, about an available Lassoo.
[12:05]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Rex: So any time a location change is required by the game, you have to have this dialog come up. This does, in fact, utterly destroy a lot of possible game content.
[12:05]	Rex Cronon:	that is not consent, that is called being forced
[12:05]	Talarus Luan:	Yeah, and you don't get a choice for any other admin function, either
[12:05]	Talarus Luan:	Freeze, you're frozen, no dialog
[12:05]	Arawn Spitteler:	In some games, being forced is the game.
[12:06]	Talarus Luan:	TP Home. No dialo
[12:06]	Talarus Luan:	+g
[12:06]	Gaius Goodliffe:	In some games, a scene change is required at certain points.
[12:06]	Rex Cronon:	u want all sim owners to be able to to that
[12:06]	Andrew Linden:	No one is going to make a game and have estate managers manually moving people around -- too much work.
[12:06]	Rex Cronon:	not all sims are for games
[12:06]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Right, Andrew, which is why I was saying this needs to be scriptable.
[12:06]	Arawn Spitteler:	That would save on Bots
[12:06]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Rex: Right! Exactly! But some are!
[12:07]	Talarus Luan:	I understand what you are saying, but to be honest, it is unreasonable to expect that sim owners not have complete control over the experience in their own sims in the long run.
[12:07]	Andrew Linden:	If it is scriptable then it would have to be an "opt-in" thing.
[12:07]	Talarus Luan:	It is *optional* to be there
[12:07]	Rex Cronon:	u have control over the sim. right. but not over the people that come there
[12:07]	Talarus Luan:	Thus, Implied Consent.
[12:07]	Andrew Linden:	However... perhaps the Estate Owner/Manager could not let them in unless they opt-in.
[12:07]	Arawn Spitteler:	I'm only suggesting it as an enforcement tool. I could have used it in one case, which got banned shortly thereafter.
[12:07]	Rex Cronon:	they r free to com and go when they like
[12:07]	Gaius Goodliffe:	If you log into my game, you agree to play by my game's rules. This is no more coorcive here than in WoW or anything else.
[12:08]	Serena Magic would like the option to not be asked to accept a summon from her owner.
[12:08]	Talarus Luan:	I have complete control over anyone in the sim as EM. I can hold them in place, TP them home, ban them, give them passes to private areas, etc.
[12:08]	Andrew Linden:	That is... perhaps the opt-in could be explicitly connected to access to the estate.
[12:08]	Kitto Flora:	Its lunchtime. Anyting new left?
[12:08]	Talarus Luan:	Forced TP is just another one of the same kinds of thigns
[12:08]	Andrew Linden:	No Kitto, go eat.
[12:08]	Simon Linden:	I have to run ... thanks everyone
[12:08]	Andrew Linden:	I will too...
[12:08]	Rex Cronon:	if u have that much control, why do u need to be able to move them around
[12:08]	Serena Magic:	Could be a friends list option .... "Auto-Accept Summon"
[12:08]	Rex Cronon:	bye simon
[12:08]	Rex Cronon:	bye andrew
[12:08]	Talarus Luan:	It's jsut another tool in the bag. :)
[12:08]	Kitto Flora:	Bye eveyone
[12:08]	Andrew Linden:	See you all later.
[12:08]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Rex: You need to move them around ebcause they've reach a part of the game that requries a scene change.
[12:09]	Arawn Spitteler:	Bon Appetite. is Ilsa still here?
[12:09]	Talarus Luan:	I'd use it like I said earlier.
[12:09]	Ilsa Munro:	I am
[12:09]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Or they've been hit by an effect that moves them somewhere else.
[12:09]	Rex Cronon:	u don't need a tp to move them around
[12:09]	Arawn Spitteler:	She had some questions about TimeScale
[12:09]	Gaius Goodliffe:	You pretty much do.
[12:09]	Ilsa Munro:	Oh I can wait till Friday
[12:09]	Talarus Luan:	TP them from a low-security area to a high-security area to stop their activities and have a little chat as I Freeze them in place :D
[12:10]	Ilsa Munro:	Then I'll be organized and three timess as annoying - err, inquisitive
[12:10]	Arawn Spitteler:	Have you seen the Vehicle Tutorial?
[12:10]	Rex Cronon:	if u do, certainly don't need to move them 30 times a second to different sims