User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2008 07 15

Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:

[11:05]	Rex Cronon:	hello everybody
[11:05]	Gaius Goodliffe:	hello
[11:05]	Andrew Linden:	Greetings
[11:05]	Rex Cronon:	hiiii
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	Sorry I'm late.
[11:06]	Kitto Flora:	Hello
[11:06]	Rex Cronon:	u r? is only 11:05
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	Announcements... yesterday Simon and I fixed a memory leak that was blocking the deployment of the next simulator update
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	and that just passed QA, so if all goes well the roll will restart this evening
[11:07]	Gaius Goodliffe:	cool
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	I'm currently working on RacerX Gullwing's favorite bug: SVC-1179
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	I think I've got a fix, but now need to test. And I wonder how much content it will break ;-)
[11:09]	Gaius Goodliffe:	I think everything that uses llPushObject has been broken for a while now...
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	Meanwhile, as I mentioned before I'm now helping manage the simulator maintenance pipeline in general, so I'm often being interrupted for some emergency.
[11:10]	Kitto Flora:	I abandoned all hope for llPushObject on Avatars long ago.
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	I think we average about... four emergencies a week
[11:10]	Gaius Goodliffe:	hehe
[11:10]	Kitto Flora:	Designed it out of all my products
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... I think that is all the announcements I had.
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	You got anything Simon?
[11:11]	Simon Linden:	Not really ... nothing getting pushed out soon
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	alright then, perhaps somone has something to talk about. If so, go ahead and mention it
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	otherwise I'll have to dig around in my little bag of random topics
[11:13]	Kitto Flora:	1) Andrew closed the jira bug on heavy CPU load by 'vehicles' in H4. I dont see any change/improvement in that problem.
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	what is the jira number of that one?
[11:13]	Kitto Flora:	Hold wile I dig thru the quagmire
[11:14]	Rex Cronon:	will llvolumedect ever work on attachments?
[11:15]	Kitto Flora:	SVC-1094
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	Rex, ugh... did LLVolumeDetect work on attachments in Havok1?
[11:15]	Rex Cronon:	yes, but only for one collision
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	I seem to recall a bug about that, but can't remember it's current status
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	? only one collision?
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	could you elaborate on that?
[11:16]	Rex Cronon:	yes, first time an avatar entered its volume an collison event was generate
[11:17]	Andrew Linden:	Here is the link to Kitto's vehicle performance bug: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1094
[11:17]	Rex Cronon:	aftwards none were generated
[11:17]	Andrew Linden:	By "its volume" you mean... someone else's attachment?
[11:17]	Creem Pye:	per-prim phantom would allow us to design vehicles with a very low nonphantom prim count, resulting in much less lag =)
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	or did you mean... "when an attachment was first attached" ?
[11:18]	Rex Cronon:	no, like i have a 10x10x10, attached, first avatar or object that got inside generated the event
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	hrm...
[11:19]	Andrew Linden:	Attachments still had a "physics body" in Havok1, but it was pulled out of the physics engine (still in memory though)
[11:19]	Andrew Linden:	in Havok4 they don't have a physics body, and sometimes we don't ever create one (rez onto your avatar, for example)
[11:20]	Rex Cronon:	,,,
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	I wonder what VolumeDetect structure the Havok1 event was triggering on...
[11:20]	Rex Cronon:	weird. it works:)
[11:20]	Rex Cronon:	for objects
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	Anyway... I guess some attachments are broken for this missing Havok1 attachment VolumeDetect event?
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	? It works right now?
[11:21]	Rex Cronon:	yes:)
[11:22]	Rex Cronon:	cool:)
[11:22]	Andrew Linden:	but not for other avatars? (non-"objects")?
[11:22]	Rex Cronon:	i haven't tried it quite a while
[11:23]	Rex Cronon:	it usually detected avatars only once
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	Ok well, if you discover a bug with that go ahead and file a jira so we can talk about it by number
[11:23]	Rex Cronon:	ok
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	I'm really vague on how VolumeDetect on attachments would work
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	actually works...
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	I'd have to read the code. I don't remember any of the details for that particular corner-case of the VolumeDetect feature.
[11:24]	Rex Cronon:	it seems to detect when i drop things on it, i hope i haven't made a mistake. needs further testing
[11:24]	Andrew Linden:	As to your bug SVC-1094 Kitto... go ahead and reopen it I guess, and change the priority as you see fit
[11:24]	Creem Pye:	i'd expec the sensing volume area to be different than where the attachment appears to be
[11:25]	Andrew Linden:	fortunately for me... Simon Linden will be working on simulator performance issues in general so maybe I can foist that bug onto his plate ;-)
[11:25]	Kitto Flora:	Andrew, is it possible for me to re-open it?
[11:25]	Creem Pye:	since animations etc aren't directly considered by the simulation
[11:25]	Kitto Flora:	Oh I just found where to do that.
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	right Creem, and the simulator almost never uses the "correct visible" location of any attachment
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	I think for most things the effective position of the attachment is the center of the avatar
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	for llPushObject() falloff/cost for example
[11:26]	Kitto Flora:	Andrew, is this higher H4 physics load ever likely to get fixed?
[11:26]	Creem Pye:	yeah, that's what i've found in my tests previously
[11:27]	Andrew Linden:	(psssst Kitto... ask Simon )
[11:27]	Kitto Flora:	Simon, is this higher H4 physics load ever likely to get fixed?
[11:28]	Simon Linden:	I'm not optimisitic about totally 'fixing' it - getting a really huge speedup
[11:28]	Simon Linden:	But I think we can make it better
[11:29]	Kitto Flora:	Every week I get complain from customer about trains not 'working right', and when I investigate, their sim is overlaoded with some physicals - like surf waves, fish...
[11:29]	Simon Linden:	There are a varietly of ways - possibly Havok5 is quicker, we may find some of our code that can speed up, or we can let builders have some more control over shapes and possibly simplify geometry
[11:30]	Kitto Flora:	A standard sim now has only 1/2 the capability it had under H1
[11:30]	Simon Linden:	Yeah, there are a lot of cases where simple things on the sim are slowing it down.
[11:30]	Simon Linden:	I mean, do we really need collisions from animated fish?
[11:30]	Creem Pye:	I really do think that many vehicles could make do with as little as 5 or so boxes and ellipsoids for the physical model
[11:30]	Kitto Flora:	And the 'open space' sims are just pitiful.
[11:31]	Kitto Flora:	I suspect theres an 'open space sim' scam going on...
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	Indeed, I think working on OpenSpace regions is high up on Simon's plate of ThingsToDo
[11:31]	Simon Linden:	My focus on them is putting the empty ones is a 'sleep' mode - perhaps just dropping fps enough to share the CPU better with other regions on the same host
[11:32]	Simon Linden:	In any case, they need to work better
[11:32]	Kitto Flora:	What would be good is a clear warning to residents as to what kind of sim they are in
[11:33]	Kitto Flora:	I find most open space renters dont understand how bad the performance of the land they have rented will be
[11:33]	Creem Pye:	do you think people are selling open spaces regions as fi they were full regions?
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	there are a few problems with the OpenSpace region offering...
[11:33]	Kitto Flora:	Creem: YES
[11:33]	Kitto Flora:	Or they gloss over it...
[11:33]	Simon Linden:	Well, is resident behavior the issue? I think it's more the communiation you have between land barons and renters
[11:34]	Kitto Flora:	Its looking like swamp land in FLorida
[11:34]	Simon Linden:	Kitto - yes, I think that's it
[11:34]	Andrew Linden:	Right, that is one of the problems... the difference between an OpenSpace region and non- is not clear
[11:34]	Kitto Flora:	Right - at this level its not H4 or such. Its socail swindling
[11:35]	Kitto Flora:	End reult is pissed-off new residents.
[11:35]	Andrew Linden:	Meanwhile, we've got techical problems that make OpenSpace regions sometimes perform even worse than expected.
[11:35]	Gaius Goodliffe:	There'
[11:35]	Gaius Goodliffe:	There's a bit of bad timing there too. Openspaces worked a lot better under Havok1.
[11:35]	Kitto Flora:	Well yeah - it all 50% down...
[11:35]	Gaius Goodliffe:	A lot of people were probably expecting to get the same performance they used to.
[11:36]	Kitto Flora:	and probably then some for open-space
[11:36]	Gaius Goodliffe:	But then the price goes down at almost exactly the same time as Havok4 comes out.
[11:36]	Creem Pye:	hopefully the script-side contribution to lag will decrease a lot once Mono hits the main grid
[11:36]	Arawn Spitteler:	Yeah, the number of scripts will skyrocket.
[11:37]	Kitto Flora:	Hard to say what that is Gaius
[11:37]	Kitto Flora:	What I see is big 'Physics time' and I suspect MONO will do nothing about that
[11:37]	Simon Linden:	I'm worried that we'll end up with more load due to more physical stuff moving around, but we'll see
[11:37]	Andrew Linden:	Also, there is a project gearing up internally to try to address proper allocation of CPU resources, so one OpenSpace region can't hog the resources on the host.
[11:37]	Rex Cronon:	now u will have 100k scripts each using 62k:)
[11:38]	Kitto Flora:	Most scripts I have seen in a sim is around 10,000
[11:38]	Creem Pye:	Simon, do you think it would be worth it to try a simple "renice"-style scheduling on emppty opensim regions?
[11:38]	Andrew Linden:	Also some projects are in proposal stage for working on script resource allocations for parcel owners and avatars
[11:38]	Arawn Spitteler:	Even for a full sim, isn't theree a way to hog the resources of a server?
[11:39]	Gaius Goodliffe:	yes
[11:39]	Kitto Flora:	Well - 20 surfing waves would do that
[11:39]	Kitto Flora:	Maybe 30 'Meadows'
[11:40]	Arawn Spitteler:	I thought waves were just heavy vehicles?
[11:40]	Kitto Flora:	Ara
[11:40]	Kitto Flora:	Arawan - they are
[11:40]	Kitto Flora:	Dumb big vehicles
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	I think Babbage and his MONO team will be working more on script resources balancing post MONO release.
[11:40]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Oh, random question -- any news on the physics across region boundries?
[11:41]	Creem Pye:	hm speaking of Babbage, is he in charge of the Mono regions on the preview grid?
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	Now news on that Gaius
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	Yes Creem, he's more or less in charge of those beta MONO regions.
[11:41]	Simon Linden:	Creem - that's one of the options, trying renice. The current obstacle is sorting out our monitoring system, so we don't get a lot of flashing lights in the control room when all these sims show low frame rates
[11:41]	Creem Pye:	I buggged babbage about opening mroe than 1 mono sim so that I could test region crossings wiht mono scripts, but I don't know if he's the right guy or not
[11:41]	Simon Linden:	He's the guy
[11:41]	Creem Pye:	ok thanks
[11:42]	Andrew Linden:	Simon, does the MONO team have a PM like we did in Havok4 (Sidwinder) ?
[11:42]	Kitto Flora:	How is MONO likely to improve region crossing?
[11:43]	Creem Pye:	ah my region crossing testing was just to see if scripts worked ok
[11:43]	SK Decosta:	hi everybody\
[11:43]	Creem Pye:	because in the past, random mono scripts in my vehicle would get disabled, silently
[11:43]	Rex Cronon:	hi sk
[11:43]	Kitto Flora:	The scripts work ok, on crossing. The proces is just plain *slow*
[11:43]	Arawn Spitteler:	They'd be disabled silently, because MONO doesn't work outside of Mono enabled sims.
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	I don't expect MONO to make many improvements to border crossings
[11:44]	Simon Linden:	Andrew - I'm not sure of their PM, if they have one or not.
[11:44]	Andrew Linden:	however, border crossings still need to be tested in MONO
[11:44]	Creem Pye:	right, I mean between 2 mono sims. I'd have 2 nearly identical scripts, and one would cross the region fine, but the other would get disabled
[11:44]	Andrew Linden:	If they DID have a PM then that might also be a person to contact about getting a second MONO region up
[11:44]	Creem Pye:	that might be fixed now, but I have no way to check =)
[11:44]	Arawn Spitteler:	SK has a question about the Hug problem, and I notice my basicHug no longer works as it did.
[11:44]	Kitto Flora:	Theres only one mono region? Where? On the preview grid?
[11:45]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Oh yeah, huggers...
[11:45]	Andrew Linden:	What is the hug question?
[11:45]	Creem Pye:	well there are 4, but last time I checked, 3 were offline =\
[11:45]	Kitto Flora:	OH ok Creeme
[11:45]	SK Decosta:	a friend asked me to modify multitool so that the hug positions could be adjusted if the avs don't fit together in the default config
[11:45]	Arawn Spitteler gave you Hug Attachment.
[11:46]	SK Decosta:	i tried llMoveToTarget but did not seem to have an effect
[11:46]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Interesting factoid: last time I had someone hug me and the hugger was making them bounce around like mad, I asked them to remove their (extremely high-heeled shoes), and after that, the hugger worked fine. It seemed like height may have been an issue.
[11:46]	Arawn Spitteler:	PHONE!!! My basic Hug worked with the early implementations of H4, but seems to be disadjusted with later iterations.
[11:47]	Andrew Linden:	Arawn, you gave me a hugger attachment. I take it that it does not work?
[11:47]	Rex Cronon:	interesting. so u have to take your shoes off to give/get a hug:)
[11:47]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Doesn't always work, though.
[11:47]	Creem Pye:	weird gaius, I'd expect high heels to only have an AO for the feet
[11:47]	Kitto Flora:	Another subject: collision events... prim on a vehicle hitting an Av, and not producing a collision event - is that a known buggy situation?
[11:47]	Arawn Spitteler:	It works, but the target is't arrived yet, and the motions look a bit busy.
[11:47]	Arawn Spitteler:	I say /hug, rather than /hump
[11:48]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Creem: the shoes had no AO, they just made the person much taller
[11:48]	Creem Pye:	woudln't that be a simple animation to lift the pelvis? or maybe it's making them levitate slightly :O
[11:48]	Arawn Spitteler:	My understanding ofr heels, is that they're cut from the feet.
[11:48]	Andrew Linden:	well, I have some ideas on how to maybe solve the heels (bouncy on hug) problem.
[11:49]	Andrew Linden:	I think maybe the "help the avatar climb steps/hill" feature is kicking in when the two avatars connect
[11:49]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Creem: No, shoes actually change your size.
[11:49]	Andrew Linden:	however I'd have to check the code
[11:49]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Nothing to do with the anim.
[11:49]	Andrew Linden:	however, the main problem with huggers is that they don't quite align face to face, right?
[11:50]	Gaius Goodliffe:	That's not a big deal, people just turn into the hug.
[11:50]	Andrew Linden:	er... they are either too close or too far away (I don't know what it is today)/
[11:50]	Dahlia Trimble:	huggers are bouncy
[11:50]	Creem Pye:	hm I don't understand what technique that would be, gaius
[11:50]	Gaius Goodliffe:	It's the bouncy thing that's the big issue.
[11:50]	Andrew Linden:	Oh ok, so it is the bouncy huggers that is the main problem.
[11:50]	Rex Cronon:	i think the problem is llmovetotarget
[11:51]	Creem Pye:	llMoveToTarget(regular_pos + <0,0,0.1>,,) or something?
[11:51]	Andrew Linden:	Got it. Well good, at least that one appears fixable
[11:51]	Dahlia Trimble gave you Hug Attachment.
[11:51]	Rex Cronon:	yes, that one creem
[11:51]	Kitto Flora:	Another subject: collision events... prim on a vehicle hitting an Av, and not producing a collision event - is that a known buggy situation?
[11:51]	SK Decosta:	thanks very much, everyone
[11:51]	Creem Pye:	is the collision-detecting script in the root prim, kitto?
[11:51]	Andrew Linden:	Kitto... this is "sub prim on vehicle hits standing avatar" --> no collision event?
[11:51]	Arawn Spitteler:	Oh, I think SK's hugger is the multitool
[11:51]	Kitto Flora:	Creem: No
[11:52]	Kitto Flora:	Andrew: Yes
[11:52]	Andrew Linden:	Kitto, is it also a problem for single-prim vehicles? Or only sub-prims?
[11:52]	Andrew Linden:	Kitto, do you have a jira for that one?
[11:52]	Andrew Linden:	I'm curious about the details of the repro-recipe
[11:53]	Kitto Flora:	Andrew: In this case sub prims. (I know nothing of single-prim vehicles)
[11:53]	Gaius Goodliffe:	That might be related to the problem I've been having with some doors (which are part of a linkset) that don't open when you collide with them. I tried to make a reliable repro the other day and couldn't repro it, but I still see the problem, especially with two of the doors on my home.
[11:53]	Kitto Flora:	And ... the vehicles has collidable sub prims at both ends. One works the other does not
[11:53]	Andrew Linden:	at both ends the prims are "sub" -- not the root prim?
[11:54]	Kitto Flora:	JIRA - not yet - I was wondering if its already in JIRA, or a brand new bug
[11:54]	Kitto Flora:	Not in the root prim
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	Kitto, I haven't heard of that bug yet. You should enter it
[11:54]	Arawn Spitteler:	Phantom Vehicle?
[11:54]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Kitto, is the prim cut in any way?
[11:54]	Kitto Flora:	Not phantom
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	Also, a simple recipe for reproducing it would be nice (scirpts + instruction) but with vehicles that can get complicated so alternatively we'll be needing a copy of the bugged vehicle.
[11:54]	James Linden gave you Linden Bear - James.
[11:55]	Kitto Flora:	Int cut - its a simple box sub-prim
[11:55]	Kitto Flora:	Not cut
[11:55]	Arawn Spitteler:	Can we get collision events, without llVolumeDetect?
[11:55]	Andrew Linden:	anybody happen to know the "bouncy hug" jira number?
[11:55]	Creem Pye:	sure you can, arawn
[11:55]	Plaz Etzel:	Sup folks
[11:56]	Rex Cronon:	hi plaz
[11:56]	Andrew Linden:	Arawn, yes the normal collision() collision_start() and collision_end() events should trigger
[11:56]	Kitto Flora:	In this case it is using collision() without llVolumeDetect
[11:56]	Andrew Linden:	and they should be settable for indiviual sub prims
[11:56]	Andrew Linden:	er... they can be enabled for sub prims
[11:56]	Plaz Etzel:	So like, there is this guy with some friends in Linden Labs, his name is Aelus Janus, and he has them ban people he doesn't like.
[11:56]	Kitto Flora:	Humm - I have not tried switching to _start
[11:57]	Andrew Linden:	Plaz, I doubt that is true. My guess is that Aelus is lying about his connection to LL.
[11:57]	Plaz Etzel:	Probably
[11:58]	Andrew Linden:	We get a lot of reports about that.
[11:58]	Plaz Etzel:	But he always finds a way to get people banned.
[11:58]	Arawn Spitteler figures Aelus is probably full of it: get your evidence togeather for G-Team Hours.
[11:58]	Creem Pye:	unless he's providing good reasons to have people banned =)
[11:58]	Andrew Linden:	People claim to have influences they don't really have, and many gullible people believe them.
[11:58]	Saijanai Kuhn:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Office_Hours/GTeam gtea, meeting
[11:58]	Saijanai Kuhn:	gteam meeting
[11:58]	Plaz Etzel:	I'm in this group called Vanguard, and he always accuses us of "copybotting".
[11:59]	Plaz Etzel:	He got at least 7 people banned by saying we were "copybotting" even though it isn't true.
[11:59]	Andrew Linden:	I wouldn't know much about that. I don't typically handle support issues anymore -- I'm mostly involved in SL server development.
[12:00]	Plaz Etzel:	:O
[12:00]	Andrew Linden:	So I can't really comment (and don't actually know) about who has been banned for what reasons.
[12:00]	Plaz Etzel:	Can you perhaps contact support about this?
[12:00]	Dark Svenska:	Mr. Linden guy, does glow require a certain graphics card?
[12:01]	Ginnia Valeeva:	????
[12:01]	Andrew Linden:	The support group ask that people get sent through the regular channels, so I can't submit the issue
[12:01]	Kitto Flora:	Welcome to the (end of) the Havok 4 meeting folks. Other subjects are likely to get blank looks. :)
[12:01]	Andrew Linden:	If it is a dire emergency (grid attack for example) then I can act.
[12:01]	Arawn Spitteler:	That would be a better question for the Mentors at Help Island.
[12:01]	Andrew Linden:	Dark, yes I think glow requires certain video cards
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	however I don't know what they are
[12:02]	Creem Pye:	well, SL requires certain video cards =)
[12:02]	Kitto Flora:	Glow needs a 'good' video card, for sure
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	for you best bet... get an nVidia8800GT or whatever
[12:02]	Plaz Etzel:	I have an 8500 and it's fine.
[12:02]	Gaius Goodliffe:	My 7900 still seems to do the job well enough...
[12:02]	DoomShizzle Ansar:	I like my 8800
[12:02]	Kitto Flora:	GeForce 7900 GS/PCI/SSE2 shows glow ok
[12:02]	Plaz Etzel:	I know a physics bug
[12:02]	Plaz Etzel:	Havok 4 breaks all our scripts
[12:03]	Arawn Spitteler:	If you get the latest and best video card, that none of the developers have, see if you can get an outdated driver for it.
[12:03]	Dark Svenska:	I must obtain a GeForce 8800 D:
[12:03]	Creem Pye:	well this crappy mobile radeon doesn't render glow
[12:03]	Saijanai Kuhn has PPC Mac. not much room for upward upgradess there...
[12:03]	Aimee Trescothick:	Upgrade to a toaster Sai?
[12:03]	DoomShizzle Ansar:	have any of you ever ran into a fellow that goes by the name of Ratcloner?
[12:03]	Arawn Spitteler has a draw bridge, that goes through, rather than tossing avatars, but that's a matter of whether there's already a Jira
[12:03]	Kitto Flora:	YEah... my Commodore 64 dont run SL too well either ;)
[12:04]	Saijanai Kuhn:	bah, when it came out dual-G% was first official desktop supercomputer
[12:04]	Andrew Linden:	There are two GeForce 8800's I think... one is very expensive, the other is less so, but almost as good
[12:04]	Gaius Goodliffe is waiting for VT-100 mode for SL.
[12:04]	Kitto Flora:	ASCII graphics, Gaius?
[12:05]	Andrew Linden has not met or heard of Ratcloner
[12:05]	Gaius Goodliffe:	You bet. :D
[12:05]	Creem Pye:	yeah there are a few 8800s
[12:05]	Saijanai Kuhn:	me has a 6800GT which was pretty good when I bought the comp
[12:05]	Arawn Spitteler posits the frame rate, for a dot matrix
[12:05]	Creem Pye:	heh i've used SL through libcaca before
[12:05]	Creem Pye:	(color ascii rendering)
[12:06]	Creem Pye:	it was pretty difficult to say the least =P
[12:06]	Gaius Goodliffe:	I'll bet hehe
[12:06]	Saijanai Kuhn is wondering if pyogp could do stick figure animation of avatars...
[12:06]	Andrew Linden:	ASCII rendering would be funny, but really the lowest card at full minimum shiny would be better
[12:06]	Aimee Trescothick:	depends on the screen resolution Ara, 8x8?
[12:06]	Andrew Linden:	I recall seeing footage of ASCII Quake once
[12:07]	Kitto Flora:	I talked to an Av who was uisng chat-only client. He could chat, could not 'see' the graphics, but could move the av somewhat
[12:07]	Saijanai Kuhn:	someone has done ascii start trek
[12:07]	Simon Linden:	One of our devs fed SL onto an Apple II - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAZHJa91JHk
[12:07]	Aimee Trescothick:	VLC has an ASCII render module if I remember rightly
[12:07]	Gaius Goodliffe:	yay! Apple II Forever! :D
[12:07]	Saijanai Kuhn:	ASCII STar Wars sorry
[12:07]	Kitto Flora:	strek?
[12:07]	Andrew Linden:	The apple II hack is similar to how some companies might try to make an SL client for a cell phone
[12:08]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Hehe... I loved my old Apple //c.
[12:08]	Aimee Trescothick:	been done, I've run it on my Nokia N95
[12:08]	Aimee Trescothick:	:)
[12:08]	Aimee Trescothick:	Vollee
[12:08]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, I've got to go. Thanks for comming to the office hour.
[12:09]	Creem Pye:	ok seeya
[12:09]	Aimee Trescothick:	bye :)
[12:09]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Thank you
[12:09]	Rex Cronon:	bye andrew
[12:09]	Kitto Flora:	Lunchy time
[12:09]	Saijanai Kuhn:	http://www.asciimation.co.nz/asciimation/index.html
[12:09]	Kitto Flora:	Byebye
[12:09]	Kitto Flora:	all
[12:09]	Rex Cronon:	bye everybody
[12:09]	Simon Linden:	Thanks everyone ... see you next time
[12:09]	Creem Pye:	bye