User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2008 07 29

Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:

[10:59]	Muli Basiat:	Hello Andrew
[10:59]	Andrew Linden:	Hi Muli
[10:59]	Demonia Arliss:	Greetings
[10:59]	Karoline Merlin:	Helloo Andrew :)
[10:59]	Yung Back:	hello
[10:59]	Thundera Rau:	Hello Andrew
[10:59]	Cummere Mayo:	hello tutmaluco and andrew
[10:59]	April Chung:	Greetings Adrew
[10:59]	Cummere Mayo smiles sugraly sweet to andrew
[10:59]	Tutumaluco Lovenkraft:	hi all
[10:59]	Selena Beale:	good hour before noon Andrew
[10:59]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... I see a lot of attendees that I've never met, and all here early
[10:59]	Tutumaluco Lovenkraft:	still rezzing
[11:00]	Karoline Merlin:	Cummere will explain yours for what reason we are here :)
[11:00]	Andrew Linden:	There must be some important issue on the agenda.
[11:00]	Cummere Mayo:	uh yes um andrew if sidewinder is on you might want to bring him too
[11:01]	Andrew Linden:	Dunno if Sidewinder is on, but I can relay any info he needs (or he can read the hour transcripts ;-)
[11:01]	Andrew Linden:	Ok well, I don't have many announcements... lessee
[11:02]	Yung Back:	sorry but what's sidewinder please?
[11:02]	Karoline Merlin:	Sidewinder Linden
[11:02]	Andrew Linden:	The simulator 1.23.4 is going out, finally!
[11:02]	Yung Back:	oh ok ty
[11:02]	Andrew Linden:	And 1.23.4 is slightly less crashy than 1.22.4
[11:02]	Cummere Mayo:	not really
[11:03]	Andrew Linden:	Well, according to our stats, however it may not be true for particular regions.
[11:04]	Andrew Linden:	I guess that is it. I _still_ haven't been able to get to vehicles, but they are on my TODO list (every week now).
[11:04]	Andrew Linden:	Alright, table is open for topics. Go ahead.
[11:04]	Cummere Mayo:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2708
[11:04]	Andrew Linden:	Ah yes. Simulator performance.
[11:04]	Cummere Mayo:	and um theres a supprot ticket referenced to the preceding issue.
[11:05]	Andrew Linden:	Simon Linden is working on that... sorta.
[11:05]	Andrew Linden:	There is now a team working on instrumenting the simulator with better metrics -- tools for measuring things that we want to improve.
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	Once those are in place then the simulator performance improvement project will begin in earnest.
[11:06]	Muli Basiat:	is there any plan to optimise some sims for particular activities?
[11:06]	Muli Basiat:	CCS is our concern
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	Meanwhile, there are some projects in the pipe that may provide small improvements... MONO is next on the plate, and there is some maintenance work that has been piling up behind MONO and should follow shortly after.
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	CCS? Could you expand that acronym please?
[11:07]	Muli Basiat:	I heard Mon was to be released in August...
[11:07]	Muli Basiat:	Its a combat system
[11:07]	Karoline Merlin:	Ah yes mono.....we got told Melanie Milland allready has spoken and meet Babbage Linden
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	Yes, MONO is scheduled for the first half of August right now. Hopefully it won't slip.
[11:07]	Cummere Mayo:	andrew with all do respect... performance has gotten worse and worse since april. *poitns behind her* some of thse are sim owners, others admins, the rest jsut palyers. but representing a huge amount of us that have investments ranging from a few dolalrs to a few thousand. were tired of lims you cant even walk through or tp out of
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	CCS is a combat system...
[11:08]	Rex Cronon:	hello everybody
[11:08]	Karoline Merlin:	Well Melanie Milland got involved in it
[11:08]	Demonia Arliss:	Hiyas Rex
[11:08]	Muli Basiat:	yes
[11:08]	Creem Pye:	is it purely physics time which has increased in your sims, cummere?
[11:08]	Cummere Mayo:	not my sims.
[11:08]	Rex Cronon:	hi
[11:08]	Kitto Flora:	Hello
[11:09]	Karoline Merlin:	We are network of SIMs connected due the CCS
[11:09]	Cummere Mayo:	ill let the sim owners peak to that
[11:09]	Karoline Merlin:	Also Suzanna Soyinka allready is in contact to a few from LL's
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	the region Lost Angels is mentioned specifically in SVC-2708, and that rings a bell, I know that Simon and Sidewinder have looked at that region in the past
[11:10]	Cummere Mayo:	and doen nothing to fix it
[11:10]	Karoline Merlin:	just now many it's not only for the CCS SIMs allone, Suzanna has showed yesertday another from Linden team around
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	Any other regions on the list? Perhaps they should be added in the comments.
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	Ah I see a few are.
[11:10]	Thundera Rau:	Tribo Brasil
[11:10]	Cummere Mayo:	but the ravenscriag sims, barerose's sim, gurlywood and a whole ton of others are suffering the same issues to a lesser degree now
[11:11]	Cummere Mayo:	and they DONT run ccs
[11:11]	Muli Basiat:	Isle of Bliss and Durga as well
[11:11]	Tutumaluco Lovenkraft:	tribo brasil havving the same problem
[11:11]	Karoline Merlin:	exactly that's the point
[11:11]	April Chung:	Isle of desire
[11:11]	Tutumaluco Lovenkraft:	excesive lags and tp problems
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	CCS is some sort of LSL system of scripts?
[11:11]	Muli Basiat:	actually any sim with 25 ava's slows down
[11:11]	Karoline Merlin:	currently yes
[11:11]	April Chung:	to a crawl
[11:11]	Muli Basiat:	I see it on all my sims
[11:11]	Cummere Mayo:	any major sim with mroe then 50 people chokes now
[11:11]	Karoline Merlin:	heavy pending SIM stats
[11:12]	Muli Basiat:	how can large role play happen when you can not assemble 40 players?
[11:12]	Cummere Mayo:	it was abd before the alst three server side releases exasberated the issue
[11:12]	Karoline Merlin:	allmost to an complete slowdown to zero
[11:12]	Cummere Mayo:	or good shopping, or concerts?
[11:12]	Kitto Flora:	It would be really good to disable Av-attached scripts
[11:12]	Muli Basiat:	like weapons?
[11:12]	Muli Basiat:	:)
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	There seems to be conflicting info... I've heard that some regions run 75 avatars just great. However, I would suspect that a crowd + certain kinds of scripts could drag a simulator to its knees at a lower density.
[11:13]	Kitto Flora:	Who knows what they are - but an Av with 2000 scripts on board is eating scares Sim resources
[11:13]	Karoline Merlin:	Andrew that's part of the puzzle
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	Lemme check one of my internal tools for crowded regions...
[11:13]	Karoline Merlin:	some SIMs with alot of Avies in them running fine
[11:13]	Muli Basiat:	My Acropolis Gardens is fine sometimes with 40 people and 1500 scripts
[11:13]	Muli Basiat:	other times 20 people and you can not walk
[11:13]	Muli Basiat:	its very inconsistent
[11:13]	Karoline Merlin:	but others are hcikupping or crawling on the gingiva while less in them
[11:14]	Kitto Flora:	1500 scripts in a region is low
[11:14]	Muli Basiat:	well not copunting AVAs
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	Not all scripts are created equal.
[11:14]	Muli Basiat:	:) just tours and stuff
[11:14]	Cummere Mayo:	look at barerose for example. its always been bad. but now you cant hardly move. soem peopel have over 200 landmarks there so they can tp from spot to spot becuase walking is so difficult
[11:15]	Muli Basiat:	seesm that LL should be considering enhancements to meet certain sim activities
[11:15]	April Chung:	the limit for active scripts I was told was 6000 and if a sims has 4000 actives scripts running and 20 people on sims and the sim is about that ready to crash . there is a serious problem
[11:15]	Kitto Flora:	Has the sim owner analysed the cause of the lag?
[11:15]	Cummere Mayo:	kitto several sim owners have tried
[11:15]	Creem Pye:	it might be worthwhile to check the sim performance stats, to see if physics, LSL scripts, or something else is causing the most lag
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	In some cases yes Kitto. I know that Simon has done some analysis on a few regions.
[11:16]	Cummere Mayo:	i dotn know bareroses but lsot angel's has, ravenscraig's owners ahve
[11:16]	Karoline Merlin:	Melanie Milland also investigated but ......we don't get rid of it cause we tried allmost everything we could
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	The hot spots that Simon mentions are: XML parsing during asset rezzes, and also rebuilding shapes due to sub-prim link position changes
[11:17]	Kitto Flora:	All the sims I have visited, that have lag.. eventually the cause has been found... and its owners choice what to remove to get the sim running resonably
[11:17]	April Chung:	4051-4873767 Here is a ticket i submitted back in april with the problem that none of the lindens could figureout the ticket just closed a couple days ago
[11:17]	Andrew Linden:	Simon has some small performance enhancements in the XML parsing... currently in a maintenance branch that is waiting for MONO (it would be included in a release *after* MONO -- 1.25)
[11:17]	Cummere Mayo:	kitto they basically stripped cola took everyone out and it STILL lagged.
[11:17]	Muli Basiat:	I think yu had Patch or someone come out on that
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	I can't find a region "cola"
[11:18]	Karoline Merlin:	Lost Angels
[11:18]	Muli Basiat:	Lost Angels
[11:18]	Creem Pye:	is ther some sort of object caching mechanism in place, andrew? so that if I rez the same object twice in short succession, maybe the sim wouldn't have to parse the XML the 2nd time
[11:18]	Cummere Mayo:	lost angels
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	Ah, cola is an acronym
[11:18]	Muli Basiat:	cola is City of Lost Angels
[11:19]	Cummere Mayo:	ravenscraig hasnt had too many changes. in fact what changes there were lately was taking stuff OUT but its still getting increased lag *shrugs*
[11:19]	Muli Basiat:	But its all too common to get a responce from a performance ticket of 'resolved'
[11:19]	Muli Basiat:	with no explaination and no improvements
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm...
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	well, I've been focused on other stuff lately. I'm willing to examine Lost Angels and a few other regions to get more info on the problem.
[11:20]	Kitto Flora has little faith in tickets about indefinite sim problems
[11:21]	Muli Basiat:	I have found if I restart a lggy sim I can restore a lot
[11:21]	Kitto Flora:	Track record is poor, ime
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	However, I suspect that true relief will not be deployable until after MONO
[11:21]	Muli Basiat:	but of course I lose everryone and have to rebuild activites too
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	it may be that workarounds will have to be sought
[11:21]	Muli Basiat:	Is there a bad memory leak that LL has nto asddressed?
[11:21]	Cummere Mayo:	and soemtiems the relief is for only an hour
[11:21]	Creem Pye:	ouch Lost Angels has a time dilation of ~0.05 to 0.2
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	for short-term relief
[11:21]	Muli Basiat:	not addressed*
[11:21]	Creem Pye:	the agent time is the cause of most of the lag
[11:21]	April Chung:	not only that we are sharing a sever with other sims
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	yes, it is currently running around 16 fps I see, with 40 avatars
[11:22]	April Chung:	3 to 4 per server
[11:22]	Cummere Mayo:	and thats sadly on the "good" side for lost angels atm
[11:22]	Muli Basiat:	16 fps is a crawl
[11:22]	Andrew Linden:	indeed. AT the moment the other regions on that server are empty, or nearly so
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	they all have stats that are healthy, fewer objects, and therefore probably fewer scripts
[11:23]	Cummere Mayo:	before april we'ld have lag with 40 there but not like this... at all
[11:23]	April Chung:	I have seen a few where the sims busy
[11:23]	Karoline Merlin:	Yes Cummere
[11:23]	Karoline Merlin:	under 40 it's not that bad
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	April coincides with the Havok4 release.
[11:24]	Karoline Merlin:	but if the Ava count goes over 40 then the stats are pending very heavy
[11:24]	April Chung:	Yes
[11:24]	Andrew Linden:	Lost Angles doesn't happen to have a bunch of temp-rezzers for getting over prim limits, does it?
[11:24]	April Chung:	I sent you a copy of ticket
[11:24]	April Chung:	icket 4051-4873767 Closed
[11:25]	April Chung:	just closed a few days ago and open in april
[11:25]	Muli Basiat:	you need to talk to suzanna
[11:25]	Muli Basiat:	its her sim
[11:25]	Muli Basiat:	But I doubt it
[11:25]	Creem Pye:	hmm would "Sim TIme (Other)" include cpu time going to rezzing objects?
[11:25]	Cummere Mayo:	no. far as i know (though im nto an admin) laost angels and its affiliates dont really use temp rezzers
[11:25]	Cummere Mayo:	ill ask suz if shes still on
[11:25]	Karoline Merlin:	No
[11:25]	Karoline Merlin:	Suzanna is gone to sleep
[11:25]	Andrew Linden:	I'm not sure what is in "Other", but no the rez events should be in a different category
[11:26]	Creem Pye:	in this case "other" is very big.. but I have no idea what it could include
[11:26]	Simon Linden:	If I remember from when Sidewinder and I checked it out, there weren't temp rezzers but the combat activity tended to make a lot of temp objects like bullets
[11:26]	Karoline Merlin:	Yes the bullets
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	No worries, just curious. An army of temp-rezzers wouldn't help matters, and might be a category of objects that could be cleaned up in the short term.
[11:26]	Karoline Merlin:	the only temporary rezzed objects while an figth is going on
[11:26]	Cummere Mayo shrugs "sorry andrew i was listing off all the symptoms and comonents i could think of
[11:27]	Cummere Mayo:	if you mena the jira reports
[11:27]	Andrew Linden:	prim count in Lost Angles is pretty hight... 13.5 k, and script count is 8.6k
[11:27]	Kitto Flora:	8600 scripts is a lot
[11:28]	Andrew Linden:	if many of those scripts are "active"... have listeners, timers, or detector then yeah... you're going to have problems.
[11:28]	Andrew Linden:	The good news is... in theory MONO should help you out somewhat.
[11:28]	Andrew Linden:	How much exactly is unclear.
[11:28]	Cummere Mayo:	over half those are worn. but even without them theres lag
[11:28]	Karoline Merlin:	Yeah well Melanie Milland told us the new designed CCS isn't cause that much of lagg anymore then the versions before the current ones
[11:29]	Andrew Linden:	Perhaps the owner of Lost Angles should get involved in the MONO testing. It should be up on the ADITI test grid all next week.
[11:29]	Andrew Linden:	It may be possible to get a test deploy of Lost Angles there.
[11:29]	Karoline Merlin:	Hrmmm
[11:29]	Creem Pye:	is CCS the system that recently introduced global stats? (interfacing with some external database to update them)
[11:29]	Kitto Flora:	Do all the sims on Aditi have MONO capability now?
[11:30]	Cummere Mayo:	theres a couple that introduced that. nto sure if ccs did but rps does that
[11:30]	Karoline Merlin:	CCS contunally comunicates with an server in the outside
[11:30]	Andrew Linden:	Kitto, no I don't think they all do, but I may be wrong.
[11:30]	Andrew Linden:	Oh right... the test grid for MONO is a new one... just a moment
[11:30]	Kitto Flora:	Any way to request that a specific Aditi sim be MONO-capable?
[11:30]	Creem Pye:	ok, just asking because a friend of mine recently complained of some combat system update which destroyed the performance of some sims its used in
[11:31]	Karoline Merlin:	I don't think it's CCS
[11:31]	Cummere Mayo:	and if mono doesnt help andrew? can we get LL to finally start ACTIVELY trying to diagnose and fix these sims. and not jsut he ccs ones?
[11:31]	Cummere Mayo:	creem ild be mroe likely to think that would be rps or bloodlines
[11:31]	Creem Pye:	I see
[11:31]	Karoline Merlin:	or WARPS
[11:32]	Andrew Linden:	Ack, I can't find the name of the new MONO grid right now
[11:32]	Andrew Linden:	However, the MONO grid will be announced soon
[11:32]	Andrew Linden:	and the testing should be up all next week
[11:32]	Creem Pye would also like to see some more Mono sims, for performance testing purposes
[11:32]	Kitto Flora:	What sims will be in the new MONO grid?
[11:32]	Andrew Linden:	Kitto, probably best to try to get a particular reigon up on the MONO grid, whatever it is
[11:33]	Kitto Flora:	OK, how do I do that?
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	ADITI will eventually be repurposed, but it won't be running the latest MONO anytime soon
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	Good question... I'm not sure who to talk to.
[11:33]	Creem Pye:	Babbage maybe
[11:33]	Karoline Merlin:	Wow
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	The dev in charge is Babbage, and he has office hours.
[11:33]	Karoline Merlin:	yeah
[11:33]	Karoline Merlin:	Babbage Linden
[11:33]	Karoline Merlin:	He allready has spoken with Melanie Milland
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	Whoever posts about the MONO test grid will be a likely person to contact.
[11:34]	Rex Cronon:	try periapse, or vektor
[11:34]	Andrew Linden:	Vektor has been the QA engineer on the project. Yeah Periapse rings a bell.
[11:34]	Karoline Merlin:	how many from Linden staff are involved in the MONO project rigth now?
[11:34]	Andrew Linden:	MONO has been a work in progress by Babbage for more than two years now.
[11:35]	Andrew Linden:	I think there are two main devs on the project, but they just got two or three new ones that will be helping with maintenance.
[11:35]	Andrew Linden:	Not sure who else is involved other than Vektor and Periapse
[11:36]	Andrew Linden:	Babbage claims that they haven't had a major bug in the MONO project in about a month.
[11:37]	Andrew Linden:	I don't know how much testing they've done with very script-heavy regions, but all I've heard has been positive, as far as performance and memory footprint
[11:37]	Andrew Linden:	I'm not sure what limitations are in place, if any, as far as # of scripts and total script memory footprint
[11:37]	Andrew Linden:	however I believe that some limitations are going to be introduced soon.
[11:37]	Andrew Linden:	Babbage would know more.
[11:38]	April Chung:	So it could be awhile before its released?
[11:38]	Cummere Mayo:	andrew woudl ti be possible to pt up a sim somewhere runnign on psot havok but pre 25th server scripts and see waht the diffearnces are for soem oe the worst affected regions?
[11:38]	Karoline Merlin:	Mid or and August as i Know April
[11:38]	Andrew Linden:	Also, some "resource balancing" so that one parcel owner can't use up all the script resources.
[11:38]	Karoline Merlin:	*end
[11:39]	Andrew Linden:	Cummere, that may be possible, but only under the "simulator performance" project that will start soon (after the simulator metrics project)
[11:39]	Andrew Linden:	Simon Linden and Don Linden are currently working on the metrics stuff
[11:39]	Cummere Mayo:	anyway i can get involved in soem of that even though im no LL emp?
[11:39]	Andrew Linden:	which they will try to use to identify the places to work first, and to verify improvements
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	Yes Cummere, I expect they will be looking for volunteer estate owners.
[11:40]	Cummere Mayo:	im not an estate owner lol but ill recamend to suz she loosk into it
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	However, I'm not sure of their exact timeline, schedule
[11:40]	Karoline Merlin:	I think Melanie Milland would be interested in it too
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	We'll have to talk to Simon Linden about it.
[11:41]	Karoline Merlin:	but i'am not sure rigth now cause she is allready involved in the openSIM project
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	Well, anyone who can set up some serious content, and who has a good sense of when it is working well, or poorly would be helpful.
[11:42]	Kitto Flora:	Andrew, did you see the resolution to the French Quarter sim problem? Looks like another griefer mode.
[11:42]	Andrew Linden:	The problem is... if you give some heavy content to Simon... he'll have to get familiar with it, and test it pre and post
[11:42]	Karoline Merlin:	Hrmmm
[11:42]	Simon Linden:	We're trying to set this up so we can look at an entire system, and see the interaction between regions on the same server as well as back-end tasks (like sending postcards)
[11:42]	Andrew Linden:	what they would probably like is to be able to bring up regions on a test grid, and let experienced Residents go in and report -- "Yes faster" or "No change"
[11:43]	Cummere Mayo chuckles and wonders abotu droping the ccs continent on simon
[11:43]	Karoline Merlin:	SImon if you don't mind i'll get friendship to you that i can inform you if Melanie is interested?
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	Ah, Simon is here.
[11:43]	Simon Linden:	Then also be able to drill down inside a simulator and get more information besides the first level of scripts vs. physics vs network time
[11:43]	Simon Linden:	Lurking and multi-tasking :)
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	Kitto, I haven't been able to get to French Quarter yet.
[11:43]	Karoline Merlin:	yeahh
[11:43]	Karoline Merlin:	Known Problem Simon :)
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	I'll write it down on my short list.
[11:44]	Cummere Mayo:	simon ild be happy to be one of those testers. *srhugs* im nto an estate owner though
[11:44]	Kitto Flora:	Andrew: Too late, its fixed. But the cause was interesting
[11:44]	Andrew Linden:	Kitto, you know what the cause was?
[11:44]	Kitto Flora:	Yes
[11:44]	Kitto Flora:	(t was discovered and eliminated by the sim owner)
[11:45]	Andrew Linden:	Well, if it is a new grief mode them I'm interested.
[11:46]	Andrew Linden:	Send me links or a summary.
[11:46]	Kitto Flora:	Dont know if its new, but it can obviously be used to damage the performance of a sim
[11:46]	Kitto Flora:	Summary on a Notecard do, Andrew?
[11:46]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah that will be fine Kitto
[11:46]	Kitto Flora:	OK
[11:47]	Andrew Linden:	or we could talk about it here.
[11:47]	Cummere Mayo:	maybe even if it doesnt affect thsese sims yet, might be we can find a way to prevent it or at least watch for it?
[11:47]	Kitto Flora:	That would reveil how to grief a sim.
[11:47]	Muli Basiat:	Sorry to change subject - but a friend in woodland hills in san fernando valley just IMed they are having an earthquake...
[11:47]	Karoline Merlin:	Holy crap
[11:47]	Andrew Linden:	Ack
[11:47]	Cummere Mayo:	how bad?
[11:48]	Muli Basiat:	building shook
[11:48]	Muli Basiat:	they are standing in doorways
[11:48]	Muli Basiat:	IDK for sure yet
[11:48]	Kitto Flora:	Its only a 5.8
[11:48]	Muli Basiat:	not horrible tho
[11:48]	Kitto Flora:	uesday, July 29, 2008 at 11:42:15 AM at epicenter
[11:49]	Andrew Linden:	You gotta love the internet.
[11:49]	Kitto Flora:	3 km (2 miles) SW (235) from Chino Hills, CA. Mag 5.8
[11:49]	Karoline Merlin:	Urghh
[11:49]	Dahlia Trimble:	ooo a big one
[11:49]	Dahlia Trimble:	Im in San Diego and I didnt feel it
[11:49]	April Chung:	omg
[11:49]	Kitto Flora:	Might damage some building
[11:49]	Kitto Flora:	Needs 6+ to be serious
[11:49]	Thundera Rau:	omg
[11:50]	Karoline Merlin is glad she doesn't life in a earthquake area realy
[11:50]	UT v8:	Thundera Rau: happy in Brazil it does not have earthquake here
[11:50]	Muli Basiat:	used to live there
[11:50]	Muli Basiat:	small ones are kinda fun :)
[11:50]	Karoline Merlin:	Yeah Thundera in Germany also not that heavy
[11:50]	Dahlia Trimble:	small ones are ok but are scary if they last a long time
[11:51]	Thundera Rau:	lol
[11:51]	UT v8:	Thundera Rau: all could come to live here
[11:51]	Andrew Linden:	This hour is almost up... another 10 minutes. Anybody else have an issue to talk about?
[11:51]	Karoline Merlin:	Yes
[11:51]	Karoline Merlin:	cause of Kitto told here about new Griefer Methods
[11:51]	Andrew Linden:	Also, if I didn't answer a question, try re-asking it. Sometimes I don't spot them in the chat.
[11:52]	Karoline Merlin:	we are having to deal all the day long with griefers using devices like one sec lemme look
[11:52]	Karoline Merlin:	Quantum Core
[11:52]	Karoline Merlin:	or similar things
[11:52]	Andrew Linden:	What does Quantum Core do?
[11:52]	Karoline Merlin:	why those things are still allowed
[11:52]	Karoline Merlin:	Can i hand yours the notecard about it Andrew?
[11:53]	Andrew Linden:	sure
[11:53]	Cummere Mayo:	thats probably a question better suited to gteam
[11:53]	Karoline Merlin gave you Quantum Core v3 Documentation.
[11:53]	Rex Cronon:	is made by darling brody
[11:53]	Karoline Merlin gave you Quantum Core Channel Shortcut - Info.
[11:54]	Demonia Arliss:	Karoline, Can you give me the notecard too ?
[11:54]	Karoline Merlin:	yes maybe Cummere but i expect it would be usable to bring it up too cause of having Lindens present
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	Ah I see, some sort of multi-tool for harrassing people in different modes
[11:54]	Rex Cronon:	it usually used in swb, and rausch
[11:54]	Demonia Arliss:	Ty :)
[11:54]	Karoline Merlin:	you are welcome Demo
[11:54]	Tutumaluco Lovenkraft:	i believe not just quantum, but anothers tools too... modified to work "fine" in havock...
[11:55]	Andrew Linden:	I'll read it in detail later to see if I can get any ideas on how to nerf modes that shouldn't exist.
[11:55]	Rex Cronon:	it has particle/test spam, and followers/cages
[11:55]	Rex Cronon:	text*
[11:56]	Cummere Mayo:	all the wonderful joiys of any toher great greifer tool lol
[11:56]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... maybe the SL client should have some automatic ignore/filtering system that can be set up.
[11:56]	Karoline Merlin nods
[11:56]	Karoline Merlin:	would be nice
[11:56]	Cummere Mayo:	that would be nice andrew *shurgs*
[11:56]	Andrew Linden:	That is, set up ahead of time, and then if an attack trigggers the thresholds it kicks in and blocks the rest
[11:56]	Rex Cronon:	actually there other attack huds that have even worse attackes
[11:56]	Karoline Merlin:	aye Rex
[11:57]	Karoline Merlin:	there are
[11:57]	Rex Cronon:	including sim crashers
[11:57]	Karoline Merlin nods
[11:57]	Andrew Linden:	The server should throttle some messages, but maybe the simulator throttle thresholds wouldn't agree with all Residents, in which case a customized viewer automatic system would be nice.
[11:58]	Thundera Rau:	yes
[11:58]	Cummere Mayo:	if you can sell the veiwer teams ont hat andrew ild vote for it
[11:58]	Andrew Linden:	If you have a reliable way of crashing the sim I may be interested.
[11:58]	Andrew Linden:	there are a few known crash modes that we can't fix yet... waiting for MONO and other projects to clear first
[11:58]	Rex Cronon:	there are some things that can reduce the physics fps dotwn to 2:(
[11:59]	Andrew Linden:	Yes Rex, the physics engine can still be overloaded
[11:59]	Dahlia Trimble has a meeting.. bye all :)
[11:59]	Karoline Merlin:	ciaooo
[11:59]	Cummere Mayo chuckles "how hard would it be that if a particualr avitar seems to be triggering crash modes allot to trigger a crashmode on their cleint isntead?"
[11:59]	Rex Cronon:	and can keep it at that level for a while
[11:59]	Rex Cronon:	bye dahlia
[12:00]	Andrew Linden:	Alright, I'm going to have to go soon.
[12:01]	Andrew Linden:	Any last minutes (new) issues?
[12:01]	Andrew Linden:	questions, comments, or quotes for posterity?
[12:01]	Karoline Merlin:	Well anyways ....aside the Griefer tools....importants thing is still the SIM performance for us
[12:01]	Andrew Linden:	Ok Karoline
[12:01]	Cummere Mayo:	not from me. i jsut want to see LL stop shoving things under the rug like the performance issues
[12:01]	Andrew Linden:	BTW, this is a good way to get your message across.
[12:01]	Karoline Merlin nods
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	I think ganging up on various Linden office hours would be an effective way to push the priority of an issue.
[12:02]	Karoline Merlin chuckles
[12:02]	Cummere Mayo:	tahts why ive been doing that
[12:02]	Kitto Flora:	Damaged sim performance is a common problem
[12:02]	Karoline Merlin laughs
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	Yup, just confirming the technique.
[12:02]	Cummere Mayo:	lol and giving them ambush tps into lost angels
[12:02]	Muli Basiat:	this was such an event :)
[12:03]	Karoline Merlin:	Hahahahaha
[12:03]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, see you all around.
[12:03]	Simon Linden:	Thanks everyone for coming
[12:03]	Muli Basiat:	Ladies and gentlemen - excuse me RL demands my attenmtion
[12:03]	Karoline Merlin:	Was nice to speak with you Andrew
[12:03]	Tutumaluco Lovenkraft:	see ya
[12:03]	Creem Pye:	thanks for your time
[12:03]	April Chung:	thank you
[12:03]	Thundera Rau:	tks
[12:03]	Tutumaluco Lovenkraft:	and thanks
[12:03]	Cummere Mayo:	thanks for lsitening simon and andrew
[12:03]	Rex Cronon:	bye
[12:03]	Demonia Arliss:	Thank you *smiles*
[12:03]	Cummere Mayo:	well now we see if that did any good
[12:03]	Kitto Flora:	Byebye all
[12:03]	Rex Cronon:	bye everybody
[12:03]	Karoline Merlin:	Bye bye
[12:03]	Demonia Arliss:	Ciao all
[12:03]	Rex Cronon:	have fun
[12:04]	Karoline Merlin:	and take care
[12:04]	Cummere Mayo:	btw if anyone here hasnt voted on http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2708 please do so
[12:04]	laina Dean:	Bye