User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2008 09 30
Jump to navigation
Jump to search
Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:
| [11:02] | Rex Cronon: | lol. "iron rex" |
| [11:02] | Rex Cronon: | hi andrew |
| [11:02] | Andrew Linden: | hello |
| [11:02] | Arawn Spitteler: | I'm the Senseless King, in another group |
| [11:03] | Andrew Linden: | Tuesday is the worst day in my week. |
| [11:03] | Rex Cronon: | do u have monday free |
| [11:03] | Rex Cronon: | for most people monday is the worst:) |
| [11:04] | Maestro Linden: | Hey guys, mind if I sit in? |
| [11:04] | Andrew Linden: | From 09:00 to 10:00 I've got a triage meeting, where we sort through recently filed internal bugs and try to figure out what to do with them, and make sure their priorities are right. |
| [11:04] | Rex Cronon: | hi maestro |
| [11:04] | Arawn Spitteler: | Welcome Maestro |
| [11:05] | Andrew Linden: | And I find that bug triage must makes me anxious. I'd rather be fixing the bugs rather than sorting them. |
| [11:05] | Andrew Linden: | Necessary, but not fun. |
| [11:05] | Rex Cronon: | look who has joined us. a magic mushroom:) |
| [11:05] | Andrew Linden: | Welcome Maestro. |
| [11:05] | Kitto Flora: | Hello everyone |
| [11:05] | Rex Cronon: | hi kitto |
| [11:06] | Maestro Linden: | hello |
| [11:06] | Andrew Linden: | Maestro is a very new Linden, I believe. |
| [11:06] | Maestro Linden: | I'm not with the H4 team, so I'm really just sitting in and observing |
| [11:06] | Maestro Linden: | yeah, brand new =) |
| [11:06] | Andrew Linden: | Joining the QA team. |
| [11:06] | Arawn Spitteler: | Yay!!! More for QA |
| [11:06] | Gaius Goodliffe: | They're springing up like mushrooms, eh? |
| [11:07] | Andrew Linden: | Well, these office hours aren't about Havok4 much anymore. |
| [11:07] | Arawn Spitteler: | What do you expect, on a system full of so much... |
| [11:07] | Maestro Linden: | lots of rain recently, I guess |
| [11:07] | Kitto Flora: | I may have an item that is H4 related |
| [11:07] | Andrew Linden: | ha ha Arwan, I can complete that sentence |
| [11:08] | Kitto Flora: | And another that I'd like to share for comments |
| [11:08] | Andrew Linden: | Well, let me make a few announcements first... |
| [11:09] | Andrew Linden: | I asked about the 1.25-Server schedule today, and the news is not great... |
| [11:09] | Andrew Linden: | they don't expect to be able to branch for 1.25-Server this week |
| [11:09] | Arawn Spitteler: | Late October |
| [11:09] | Arawn Spitteler: | ? |
| [11:09] | Andrew Linden: | hopefully next week |
| [11:09] | Gaius Goodliffe: | When It's Done (R) 3DRealms |
| [11:10] | Andrew Linden: | Which makes me sad since a bunch of bug fixes have been waiting for 1.25-Server to actually start final testing. |
| [11:10] | Kitto Flora: | Camera bounce? |
| [11:10] | Andrew Linden: | Looks like the bottleneck is the QA cycle of the mergeback of chunks of fixed code. |
| [11:10] | Arawn Spitteler: | Some Exploit, I recall your neighbor mentioning. |
| [11:11] | Andrew Linden: | Speaking of which... currently one of my branches holds the lock on the mergeback...the 64bit stuff is currently ready for final QA testing |
| [11:11] | Arawn Spitteler: | How soon might it be ready for Preview Grid |
| [11:12] | Andrew Linden: | however that should go quickly, it just needs some smoke tests since no features were added or bugs fixed. |
| [11:12] | Andrew Linden: | Arawn, nothing up for preview until 1.25-Server goes through a few days of testing, and that branch hasn't even been created yet. |
| [11:13] | Andrew Linden: | Hrm... there was a reported compile error in my 64bit branch but I just completed building it on Windows and found nothing wrong... |
| [11:13] | Andrew Linden is trying to work on the side... | |
| [11:14] | Andrew Linden: | Lets see... any other new...? |
| [11:14] | Arawn Spitteler: | Programming is a great way to soak up the intellect |
| [11:14] | Andrew Linden: | I guess I don't have anything else that might be interesting. |
| [11:15] | Andrew Linden: | Kitto, you had a bug you wanted to mention? |
| [11:15] | Kitto Flora: | Yes - maybe bug |
| [11:15] | Kitto Flora: | It concerns phantom 'vehicles' |
| [11:15] | Kitto Flora: | A friend made a vehicle - not using vehicle code. Its set phantom. |
| [11:16] | Kitto Flora: | And set physical to be moved |
| [11:16] | Kitto Flora: | On its own it stay s phantom |
| [11:16] | Kitto Flora: | If he sits on it - rides it then the object becomes non-phantom |
| [11:16] | Kitto Flora: | And collision problems show up |
| [11:16] | Andrew Linden: | the entire vehicle? Or just the avatar part? |
| [11:16] | Kitto Flora: | The vehicle prims |
| [11:17] | Kitto Flora: | Although edit still whows 'phantom' |
| [11:17] | Andrew Linden: | ok, that is a bug, however I'm surprised that it is happening |
| [11:17] | Kitto Flora: | if you drop a phisical cube on it the cube bounce off it - the prims ate non-phantom |
| [11:17] | Arawn Spitteler: | That might explain some of the problems with this year's twistor |
| [11:18] | Andrew Linden: | Assuming that his script is not setting the object non-phantom, then I'm very surprised it is happening |
| [11:18] | SSA-2051 Zephyros: | Welcome aboard, Gaius Goodliffe. You are now the pilot. |
| [11:18] | SSA-2051 Zephyros: | Normal cam. |
| [11:18] | Andrew Linden: | if so, then it should also happen for a non-scripted phantom+dynamic object |
| [11:18] | Kitto Flora: | He was trying two ways - set it phantom in edit |
| [11:18] | Kitto Flora: | also set it phantom by script |
| [11:18] | SSA-2051 Zephyros: | Have a nice day, Gaius Goodliffe! |
| [11:18] | Andrew Linden: | Kitto, has he entered the bug? I'd be needing a copy of the object, or a demo script that reproduces the problem. |
| [11:19] | Gaius Goodliffe: | Okay, my airship stays phantom even when physical and ridden... |
| [11:19] | Kitto Flora: | I do not know what the latest status of his tests are - but I suspected the observerd condition is a bug |
| [11:19] | Kitto Flora: | OK Andrew.... |
| [11:19] | Andrew Linden: | ok, I'll try to test the simple case after this meeting. |
| [11:19] | Kitto Flora: | If this is not right I will follow up with him, see if can get copy |
| [11:19] | Kitto Flora: | for you |
| [11:19] | Kitto Flora: | I doubt he's entered it as a bug |
| [11:19] | Andrew Linden: | thanks |
| [11:20] | Maestro Linden: | Hi Simon |
| [11:20] | Simon Linden: | Hi |
| [11:20] | Kitto Flora: | He's a regular builder - type who ignores the complexities of Jira |
| [11:20] | Rex Cronon: | hi simon |
| [11:20] | Andrew Linden: | there is some bug about avatars going phantom sometimes. I haven't been able to get to it yet :-( |
| [11:20] | Rex Cronon: | like my sit? |
| [11:21] | Andrew Linden: | Yes Rex, that collisioness avatar trick you showed us. |
| [11:21] | James Silberfeld: | cant there be a benefit to avs going phantom? in my mind i can see uses for that |
| [11:21] | Rex Cronon: | actually i like it:) |
| [11:22] | Simon Linden: | The people who do combat sims want to be able to control that ability |
| [11:22] | Andrew Linden: | James Silberfeld, I've been forwarned that you might show up. I hear you're interested in collisionless avatars, or at least non-pushable avatars. Care to present your issues? The table is open. |
| [11:22] | Rex Cronon: | too bad u can be pushed |
| [11:22] | James Silberfeld: | yes much griefing is done against me via av pushing... i would love to have an option for phantom av to stop that pushing if needed |
| [11:23] | Andrew Linden: | Well, 'phantom' actually means: "collides with terrain only" |
| [11:23] | Andrew Linden: | and as Rex mentioned, his collisionless avatar (which doesn't even collide with the terrain) can still be pushed. |
| [11:23] | Arawn Spitteler: | Push-Block as an Avie Option? |
| [11:24] | James Silberfeld: | ok forgive me on that my intent is a way to avoid av pushing by other avs as a means to help thwart griefing attacks.. |
| [11:24] | Andrew Linden: | James, are you talking about scripted pushes via llPushObject()? or collision pushes? |
| [11:24] | Arawn Spitteler: | Andrew's the guy for Anti-Grief Infrastructure |
| [11:24] | James Silberfeld: | collision push where av physically pushes another av via physics.. |
| [11:24] | Rex Cronon: | when people go "phantom" they can still be pushed. which doesn't make sense, since phantomom objects can't be pushed |
| [11:25] | Andrew Linden: | What Rex? Phantom objects can be pushed via llPushObject(), right? |
| [11:25] | Simon Linden: | Rex - pushed as in pushed-by-LSL, not pushed-by-an-avatar, right? |
| [11:25] | Arawn Spitteler wonders if Phantom Lindens are pushable | |
| [11:25] | Rex Cronon: | pushed by script |
| [11:25] | Kitto Flora: | James, how are these griefers circumventing the sim 'NoPush' setting? |
| [11:25] | Andrew Linden: | if phantom objects couldn't be pushed I'd expect a bunch of reports of broken content. |
| [11:25] | James Silberfeld: | i wish i knew i am set to no push and yet my avs get pushed many meters |
| [11:25] | Rex Cronon: | i don't think that u can push phantom objects using scripts |
| [11:26] | Andrew Linden: | hrm... I'll have to test it later. |
| [11:26] | Andrew Linden: | They can't be pushed if the trigger is a collision_start() event |
| [11:27] | Arawn Spitteler: | Push by Script won't work in No Push Area, except by owner, but Push by Collision won't work on Phantoms., I should think |
| [11:27] | James Silberfeld: | isnt pushing resticted here on this land right now? i can test it for you right now :0 |
| [11:27] | Rex Cronon: | james, object(s) r rezzed at your location, that is how u r pushed in no push zone |
| [11:27] | James Silberfeld: | no sir |
| [11:27] | Andrew Linden: | anyway, as to James' issue... we've talked about avatars being able to control their pushabliity in the past |
| [11:27] | Kitto Flora: | Hummm - I wonder if someone has discovered a loophole in Sim NoPush... here's why... |
| [11:27] | James Silberfeld: | av can push av at my location sir |
| [11:28] | James Silberfeld: | an object is not required to push at all u only need an av to push another av |
| [11:28] | Andrew Linden: | I think it is a feature I'd like to add... however I know that some estate owners and maybe parcel owners would request the ability to override that setting |
| [11:28] | Kitto Flora: | A few days ago I was at OI Public when there was a griefing attack, and my av was getting pushed by something - while flying. I had ShowTransparent on and did not see any objects hitting me |
| [11:28] | James Silberfeld: | yes for combat etc... of course |
| [11:28] | Andrew Linden: | some existing content (mostly shoot-em-up games) would be broken if people could cheat their pushability, I'd expect |
| [11:29] | Gaius Goodliffe: | There are all sorts of things you can't see with Show Transparent on |
| [11:29] | Kitto Flora: | True |
| [11:29] | Rex Cronon: | kitto, if something is too big u can't see it |
| [11:30] | Kitto Flora: | At the time I was too busy going thru the complexity of filing a report. No time to see whats really going on |
| [11:30] | Andrew Linden: | James, I'd like to work on that. I don't see it happening in the short term (before the end of 2008). There is just too much other features piling up. |
| [11:30] | James Silberfeld: | let me know when its time for a new subject lol :0 |
| [11:31] | Andrew Linden: | anytime actually, the table is open and this is just a casual discussion |
| [11:31] | Maestro Linden: | hm, those "invisibility prims" aren't highlighted when "show transparent" is enabled, Kitto. So one possibility is that you were hit by something like that. |
| [11:31] | Andrew Linden: | if questions or issues are raised that don't get attention, just re-ask |
| [11:31] | Andrew Linden: | sometimes thing pass by the chat history and are missed |
| [11:31] | James Silberfeld: | ok i have had another weird thing going on? |
| [11:32] | James Silberfeld: | on my land with stores the SHOW in search will get unchecked unexplainably |
| [11:32] | James Silberfeld: | sometimes it goes for days before i notice a huge drop in business and i find out... |
| [11:32] | James Silberfeld: | now i check all my lands each day for safety |
| [11:32] | Andrew Linden: | hrm... that is a feature I don't know much about... |
| [11:32] | Andrew Linden: | James, are you ever splitting or joining parcels? |
| [11:32] | Kitto Flora: | Interesting - I've found that set 'off' too |
| [11:33] | Andrew Linden: | I think many fields get cleared on a division or join |
| [11:33] | James Silberfeld: | yes however the show in search function has been unchecked repeatedly on my without any joining or dividing of the land |
| [11:33] | James Silberfeld: | total unexplainable |
| [11:33] | Andrew Linden: | hrm... |
| [11:33] | James Silberfeld: | it would be nice if i could LOCK that checkbox or something? |
| [11:34] | Andrew Linden: | Well, there are two ways I can think of that bug could be introduced... |
| [11:34] | Andrew Linden: | 1) is that is mistakenly getting cleared server-side |
| [11:34] | Andrew Linden: | 2) the SL client is incorrectly sending a parcel properties update message that asks the simulator to clear that bit |
| [11:35] | Andrew Linden: | ok... a third less likely possibility 3) there is a permission problem that allows others to toggle/clear that bit |
| [11:35] | Andrew Linden: | 3) is unlikely since I'd expect to have heard about it if it existed |
| [11:36] | James Silberfeld: | yes via group i have eliminated that possiblity by not allowing permissions for that also this has occured on non group land also repeatedly |
| [11:36] | Arawn Spitteler wonders if dropped packets might result in Client-Side Malaproperties | |
| [11:36] | Kitto Flora: | What about a sim code update thats not using the old setting(s) correctly? |
| [11:36] | Gaius Goodliffe: | Wouldn't a sim code update problem affect everyone? |
| [11:36] | Rex Cronon: | i would like to add #4 A hacked client does that |
| [11:36] | James Silberfeld: | lol@ rex |
| [11:36] | Andrew Linden: | Well, now that ou are checking that bit daily, what is the frequency of the problem? |
| [11:37] | James Silberfeld: | it occurs mostly at 2 locations on the same sim nearly it happened once per week for 3 weeks and for 2 weeks has now been okay so far |
| [11:37] | Andrew Linden: | Yes Rex, I guess 4) could also be a possibility. That would be a security bug. |
| [11:37] | James Silberfeld: | at other sim it has happend 2 times in 3 months |
| [11:37] | Gaius Goodliffe: | My own "Show in search" checkboxes have stayed reliably checked for, well, since at least summer 2007 is the last time I discovered mine was unchecked (and that may have been do to my messing with the parcels on my island) |
| [11:38] | Andrew Linden: | Kitto, you've also seen the bug? Got an estimate on the frequency? |
| [11:38] | Kitto Flora: | I only recall one instance |
| [11:38] | Kitto Flora: | We have no parcels to join/divide |
| [11:38] | Kitto Flora: | So its not that |
| [11:39] | Kitto Flora: | I put it down to op error |
| [11:39] | Kitto Flora: | But now I will check things more often |
| [11:39] | Andrew Linden: | James, this is what I would suggest. The next time you notice it happening send me an IM with the time, location, and parcel-name. |
| [11:39] | James Silberfeld: | yes sir i will |
| [11:40] | Andrew Linden: | There may be clues in the logs, however those clues get cleared out after several days |
| [11:40] | Gaius Goodliffe: | I was in the habit of checking every week, around the time the had the big problems with classified not auto-renewing. But when the problems went away, after a couple months I stopped checking regularly. Still, it hasn't happened since... |
| [11:40] | Andrew Linden: | so I could only investigate an event that was a few days old |
| [11:40] | James Silberfeld: | new topic? |
| [11:40] | Andrew Linden: | sure |
| [11:40] | ErinSelene Llewellyn: | it the same place as before |
| [11:40] | James Silberfeld: | netscape dispatch wnd..... |
| [11:40] | James Silberfeld: | its trouble... |
| [11:41] | Andrew Linden: | I'm unfamiliar with netscape dispatch wnd |
| [11:41] | James Silberfeld: | it is acting up a lot for many people |
| [11:41] | James Silberfeld: | it handles sound... |
| [11:41] | James Silberfeld: | causes lockup crashes |
| [11:41] | James Silberfeld: | also a weird bug... can log clear off sl... and still have sound running... |
| [11:41] | James Silberfeld: | at crash u get error message from netscape dispatch wnd |
| [11:41] | Andrew Linden: | all sound? or just voice? |
| [11:42] | Rex Cronon: | is firefox affected? |
| [11:42] | James Silberfeld: | sound |
| [11:42] | ErinSelene Llewellyn: | Got a question when you guys have a sec |
| [11:42] | James Silberfeld: | i only use ie unless troubleshooting website dispaly issue... |
| [11:42] | Arawn Spitteler: | Streaming Music and Voice are on different software |
| [11:42] | Gaius Goodliffe: | I've logged off before and had the parcel media stream keep playing until I manually kill the second life process... |
| [11:42] | James Silberfeld: | yes its the stremaing music,.... |
| [11:42] | Andrew Linden: | ah ha, I can google 'netscape dispatch wnd' |
| [11:43] | James Silberfeld: | lol yes u can its free to google :0 |
| [11:43] | Gaius Goodliffe: | Google knows all. |
| [11:43] | Andrew Linden: | James, are you really using netscape? |
| [11:43] | James Silberfeld: | when i have parties at my club this will crash some people... and i hear complaints and i also experience some issues myself |
| [11:43] | James Silberfeld: | nope i use IE |
| [11:44] | Kitto Flora uses Firefox 100% | |
| [11:44] | Simon Linden: | James - this is a crash message from your viewer, correct? |
| [11:44] | James Silberfeld: | ys sir |
| [11:44] | Arawn Spitteler discovered, last night, that MoveToTarget doesn't work, on a thousand cubic meter prim: Just toss your question into chat, Erin, and try it again if overlooked. | |
| [11:44] | ErinSelene Llewellyn: | ok |
| [11:44] | Simon Linden: | It's probably some internal library the viewer uses - mozilla code |
| [11:44] | Gaius Goodliffe uses Firefox, IE, Safari, Opera, and Chrome. I just love cross-browser testing. :p | |
| [11:45] | James Silberfeld: | well a website will look good on one of those browsers at least we hope lol :0 |
| [11:45] | Andrew Linden: | uh... Arwan, a 10^3 prim probably doesn't have enough 'script energy' to use MoveToTarget |
| [11:45] | ErinSelene Llewellyn: | Remember the glitch where it made under skits invisible . . . . what caused that? *is trying to learn about this stuff* |
| [11:45] | ErinSelene Llewellyn: | skirts* |
| [11:45] | Simon Linden: | yeah, I've investigated that one before. The energy runs out and it drops to the ground |
| [11:45] | Arawn Spitteler: | I think my Burning Life Build is now running, about a week overdue |
| [11:46] | Andrew Linden: | ErinSelene, that was a render-bug, I'm not very familiar with the rendering code of the SL viewer |
| [11:46] | ErinSelene Llewellyn: | yayee Awarn |
| [11:46] | ErinSelene Llewellyn: | ohhhh ok |
| [11:46] | ErinSelene Llewellyn: | Arawn* |
| [11:46] | James Silberfeld: | and now that u mention the sl viewer it is just fabulous wow... but uh the inventory window well can we work on that lol? |
| [11:46] | Kitto Flora: | OK - here's another weirdness - anyone seen anything like this before? |
| [11:46] | Gaius Goodliffe: | BTW, do objects have more script energy under H4 than they did in H1? I swear I have a script that used to not work under H1 on some vehicles (without llVehicleType -- using ApplyImpluse) that now does. |
| [11:47] | Simon Linden: | FWIW there's a known hack on the enery issue: |
| [11:47] | Andrew Linden: | however, I could imagine how skirts could easily be broken. Probably a typo where skirts were being ignored, or accidentlly categorized as a different clothing type. |
| [11:47] | Arawn Spitteler imagines future generations will be lighting candles to the Awarn of Second Life. | |
| [11:47] | Simon Linden: | Call llApplyRotationalImpulse(vector force, integer local); with a zero force, and it resets your energy level |
| [11:47] | Andrew Linden: | What is the hack on the energy issue? |
| [11:47] | Andrew Linden: | Ha! |
| [11:47] | ErinSelene Llewellyn: | ohhhh |
| [11:47] | Andrew Linden: | We should just get rid of the script energy system. |
| [11:47] | Andrew Linden would like to do it | |
| [11:47] | Rex Cronon: | that is usefull:) |
| [11:47] | Simon Linden: | It's a bug from Havok1 days that we had to implement in Havok4 because some vehciles accidentally depended on it |
| [11:47] | Andrew Linden: | lots of content would subsequently break |
| [11:48] | Andrew Linden: | oh right, that rings a bell |
| [11:48] | Andrew Linden: | sigh |
| [11:48] | Kitto Flora: | Here is a steam engine that has been corrupted - the original root prim is missing and another prim in the link set moved to the root position, and so the name of the linked object is changed. This is a no-edit object. How does this happen? |
| [11:48] | Simon Linden: | I think we need some version info on the script or API it's using, so we could start to migrate to cleaner code. That's a long LSL design discussion, however |
| [11:49] | Kitto Flora: | This is the second one of these that I have seen. |
| [11:49] | Simon Linden: | FWIW there's stuff like that in Flash - if you comple with one version, it behaves one way, but a re-compile will behave differently due to bug fixes |
| [11:49] | Andrew Linden: | Kitto, there was a link-order bug in Havok4 during the beta period I seem to recall |
| [11:49] | Kitto Flora: | This was created in the last couple of weeks |
| [11:49] | Gaius Goodliffe: | Maybe just clean up all the old hacks when you see the script isn't LSL but C#? :D Just a thought... |
| [11:50] | Andrew Linden: | Oh... |
| [11:50] | Kitto Flora: | Previous one was some months ago |
| [11:50] | Simon Linden: | That's a possiblity, Gaius |
| [11:50] | Andrew Linden: | hrm... might happen if the root prim were accidentally unlinked as an individual |
| [11:50] | Andrew Linden: | and then linked back up |
| [11:51] | Gaius Goodliffe: | Not that I don't *love* LSL... :p |
| [11:51] | Kitto Flora: | Its no-edit |
| [11:51] | Kitto Flora: | How can someone unlink it? |
| [11:51] | Andrew Linden: | does the train do any scripted unlinking? |
| [11:51] | Kitto Flora: | No |
| [11:51] | Andrew Linden: | wow, that is a mystery |
| [11:51] | Kitto Flora: | Yeah - one instance I put down to 'weird' |
| [11:51] | Kitto Flora: | a second one - I get a bit worried |
| [11:52] | Andrew Linden: | the order of the linkage depends on the order in which the parts were saved to asset, or to simulator backup state |
| [11:52] | Gaius Goodliffe: | One assumes that the root prim when the same place much of my old script code has gone. (I figure I have about a 50/50 chance of getting "Script missing from database" when I try to edit a script in an object I made two years ago). |
| [11:52] | Gaius Goodliffe: | *went the same place |
| [11:53] | Andrew Linden: | that is, the most likely trigger for a linkage order problem that I can think of would be in a save/load cycle |
| [11:53] | Andrew Linden: | rather than a spontaneous re-ordering in the RAM during the simulator operation. |
| [11:53] | Kitto Flora: | Sim backup is only used if the sim is restarted? |
| [11:53] | Andrew Linden: | unless it was a sit/stand-up cycle that caused it. Dunno how that would happen. |
| [11:53] | Andrew Linden: | Yes Kitto. |
| [11:54] | Kitto Flora: | And the object was in-world |
| [11:54] | Kitto Flora: | Well theres been a lot of sim restarts going on , so thats possible |
| [11:54] | Kitto Flora: | Theres huge numbers of sit/stand on these objects |
| [11:54] | Andrew Linden: | I'll keep an eye out for more reports of the problem Kitto. |
| [11:54] | Kitto Flora: | OK |
| [11:54] | Andrew Linden: | Meanwhile, if you find a way to reproduce it I'd love to know how. |
| [11:55] | James Silberfeld: | how many servers are running all of the mainland sims? or can i ask? if u tell me will u have to kill me cuz i know too much? |
| [11:55] | Kitto Flora: | Did anyone here see anything like this elsewhere? |
| [11:55] | Andrew Linden: | James, I think we have about 10k servers now... |
| [11:55] | Andrew Linden: | lemme check |
| [11:55] | James Silberfeld: | are the db's sql? |
| [11:55] | ErinSelene Llewellyn: | holy freaking crap |
| [11:56] | Gaius Goodliffe: | lol |
| [11:56] | ErinSelene Llewellyn: | 10,000 servers!? |
| [11:56] | James Silberfeld: | if u have 10 servers running i gonna go back to my store ok i am way out of my league here omg |
| [11:56] | Gaius Goodliffe: | That's just mainland |
| [11:56] | Andrew Linden: | looks like there are almost 9k servers running SL |
| [11:56] | Gaius Goodliffe: | How many if you include private islands? |
| [11:56] | Kitto Flora: | 9k servers running mainland & Private 'islands'? |
| [11:56] | ErinSelene Llewellyn: | omg 9,000 servers? |
| [11:56] | Andrew Linden: | sim8679.agni.lindenlab.com is the last simulator host on the list, however there are some other servers that do other stuff that aren't simulator hosts |
| [11:57] | Rex Cronon: | why do u think is called a server farm:) |
| [11:57] | Andrew Linden: | hrm... wait, there are only 6.6k lines to this file, so there is a gap of server numbers |
| [11:57] | ErinSelene Llewellyn: | what kind of a building must house this stuff? |
| [11:57] | James Silberfeld: | how do you even keep the half of all this afloat omg yahoo cant keep a chat box open 5 minutes or it crashes? |
| [11:57] | Andrew Linden: | yeah, about 6.5k simulator hosts |
| [11:57] | Kitto Flora: | YEah - but sim8679... may be a quad-core so is running 4 regions? |
| [11:57] | ErinSelene Llewellyn: | O.O |
| [11:58] | Andrew Linden: | correct Kitto, it most certainly is a quad-core server |
| [11:58] | Gaius Goodliffe: | Ah! Right... okay now it makes sense -- I thought that number seemed low, but right, four sims per host. |
| [11:58] | Rex Cronon: | i have had yahoo chat boxes opened for hours, and no crashing |
| [11:58] | Andrew Linden: | the servers are housed in "colo facilities" around the country |
| [11:58] | James Silberfeld: | did anybody mention it will be pricey to upgrade all the servers LOL :(*) |
| [11:58] | Andrew Linden: | colo = co-location |
| [11:58] | Gaius Goodliffe: | Or 16 for openspaces |
| [11:58] | Simon Linden: | Keeping it up and running is an adventure :) |
| [11:58] | Kitto Flora: | And some regions are 'open sims' - could be 16 opens running at one net address |
| [11:58] | ErinSelene Llewellyn: | this is very dumb but I didn't know there were that many computer building in the world |
| [11:59] | ErinSelene Llewellyn: | I always thought it was people like me with a few extra computer towers |
| [11:59] | Andrew Linden: | a colo is a building for holding racks and racks of servers, with lots of high-bandwidth lines in, and cooling and backup power |
| [11:59] | Kitto Flora: | There were 3 colos - are there more yet? Any in Europe? |
| [11:59] | ErinSelene Llewellyn: | wow |
| [11:59] | Andrew Linden: | all of the servers are 1U boxes (1 unit high = 1.75 inches) |
| [11:59] | Arawn Spitteler: | I' |
| [11:59] | Andrew Linden: | well, all of the simulator hosts are 1U |
| [12:00] | Andrew Linden: | we have some other larger boxes used for asset servers, database hosts, and backup systems |
| [12:00] | James Silberfeld: | is there a reason why the servers are not raid? (for the sims)? |
| [12:00] | Andrew Linden: | None in europe yet |
| [12:00] | Arawn Spitteler: | I've been asked, by some one in Portugal, whether there are any in Portugal, but I don't know how big a CoLo has to be, to pay for the independant staff |
| [12:00] | Andrew Linden: | yes james, it turns out that RAID is very prone to hardware failure |
| [12:00] | Andrew Linden: | and is more expensive |
| [12:00] | Arawn Spitteler: | Someone has to go there for staff training, etc |
| [12:01] | Andrew Linden: | the backup systems use RAID |
| [12:01] | James Silberfeld: | how do u manage bakups of so much data omg? without raid? |
| [12:01] | ErinSelene Llewellyn: | do colo owners make a lot of money? |
| [12:01] | Andrew Linden: | RAID = redundant array of independent disks |
| [12:01] | Arawn Spitteler: | RAID? |
| [12:01] | James Silberfeld: | ok gotcha backup is raid |
| [12:01] | Andrew Linden: | RAID disk arrays can loose a disk without losing any data |
| [12:01] | Simon Linden: | A (not necessarily Linden) colo can be any size ... from a single rack to a huge building. It's just a business set up to host and run servers for other companies or people |
| [12:01] | Gaius Goodliffe: | Does the "Islands Owned" figure on the Economic Statistics page include mainland sims? |
| [12:02] | Andrew Linden: | and individual the disks can be hot-swapped in without shuttind down the server |
| [12:02] | Kitto Flora: | The original CoLo is in San Francisco, then Dallas Tx was added, then Los Angeles aera? |
| [12:02] | James Silberfeld: | now am i the only one noticing the increase in logged in people? we had 70K other day... what can we handle at present? are we ready for the holidays boom here? |
| [12:02] | Kitto Flora: | I have not poked around recently to find out |
| [12:02] | Simon Linden: | We definitely notice those numbers, James :) |
| [12:02] | Andrew Linden: | Kitto, not sure about the Island Owned stat, but probably doesn't include mainland |
| [12:02] | Arawn Spitteler: | Wouldn't Mainland be one island? |
| [12:03] | Gaius Goodliffe: | It says 25426 Islands Owned -- if that excludes mainland sims... the server count seems low... |
| [12:03] | ErinSelene Llewellyn: | I suppose you guys don't know how proffitable a colo is v.v |
| [12:03] | Andrew Linden: | James, we're not sure how many we can hold. We're constantly changing the system in an attempt to scale the service. |
| [12:03] | Kitto Flora: | 'island' is slang for a private owned region. |
| [12:03] | Simon Linden: | Yeah, I'm sure that's private islands, not on a continent |
| [12:03] | James Silberfeld: | could we sustain 100K logged come this december? |
| [12:03] | Andrew Linden: | Gaius, the numbers skewing the owned regions are the "open space" regions |
| [12:03] | Gaius Goodliffe: | Oh right... wow, they'er more popular than I thought then. |
| [12:03] | Arawn Spitteler: | Christmas might be an annual smoke test |
| [12:04] | Andrew Linden: | "open space" regions are cheaper, get fiewer CPU cycles, and run 4 per CPU, so maybe up to 16 per host |
| [12:04] | Kitto Flora: | CoLos are good business but need huge capital investment to make a GOOD colo facility. And the competition is building |
| [12:04] | ErinSelene Llewellyn: | I am sorry, we rent one of those, what would you like to know about them? |
| [12:04] | Andrew Linden: | Is Christmas a high concurrency event? I thought it was lower than usual. |
| [12:04] | James Silberfeld: | let me see what i can do? |
| [12:05] | James Silberfeld: | is it ok to talk about promoting sl here? |
| [12:05] | Kitto Flora: | Higest concurrency has more to do with publicity I think |
| [12:05] | James Silberfeld: | or is this bugs talk? |
| [12:05] | ErinSelene Llewellyn: | thanks for the info i will put that idea on the back burnner in that case |
| [12:05] | Andrew Linden: | yes James, however I'm not an expert on SL promotions. |
| [12:05] | Arawn Spitteler: | There's a lot of new systems and days off, so I'd expect Christmas, or the Thanksgiving Friday, to be especially smokish |
| [12:05] | Gaius Goodliffe: | At this point we've ourside the official office hours anyhow -- I tink it's pretty much anything goes. |
| [12:05] | Gaius Goodliffe: | *outside |
| [12:05] | Andrew Linden: | My areas of expertise are mostly server-side stuff, and the physics engine in particular. |
| [12:06] | James Silberfeld: | ok np |
| [12:06] | James Silberfeld: | i can explain some of the recent increase... |
| [12:06] | Andrew Linden: | ah yes, office hours are over. |
| [12:06] | ErinSelene Llewellyn: | oops |
| [12:06] | Andrew Linden: | I was going to test the phantom seat that becomes collidable on sit. |
| [12:06] | James Silberfeld: | as tso went offline many people have began to spend time here ... although many of them already had an account... |
| [12:06] | Arawn Spitteler: | TSO? |
| [12:06] | James Silberfeld: | i am working on methods to market to those people |
| [12:07] | James Silberfeld: | teh sims online |
| [12:07] | Andrew Linden: | I don't think we saw a major influx from TSO when it actually shut down, did we? |
| [12:07] | James Silberfeld: | here is y |
| [12:07] | James Silberfeld: | they already were members |
| [12:07] | James Silberfeld: | but now they log in |
| [12:07] | ErinSelene Llewellyn: | gah TP's to the right of me gah! |
| [12:07] | ErinSelene Llewellyn: | I will try to make the next meeting too you guys really help alot |
| [12:07] | James Silberfeld: | i have dozens of people at my location from tso and i have picked their brains empty |
| [12:08] | Andrew Linden: | TSO had a slow decline, as I recall, then they eventually shut down the last servers |
| [12:08] | James Silberfeld: | it just very recently went offline |
| [12:08] | James Silberfeld: | it is a huge opportunigy for sl |
| [12:08] | Arawn Spitteler wonders if that CoLo is available... | |
| [12:08] | Simon Linden: | We did see some steady growth over the past few weeks |
| [12:08] | Gaius Goodliffe: | I think most TSOers already migrated before the official end |
| [12:08] | James Silberfeld: | i am getting tons of feedback in sl from peeps who came here from tso and i hear much good and only tiny bit of gripes... |
| [12:09] | Andrew Linden: | I don't think TSO had the same hardware/user ratio that we do. |
| [12:09] | Gaius Goodliffe: | But there's always the last few |
| [12:09] | James Silberfeld: | i been here only 5 months but i wathc each day the #'s |
| [12:09] | James Silberfeld: | its growing |
| [12:09] | Andrew Linden: | plenty to gripe about, more to rave about |
| [12:09] | ErinSelene Llewellyn: | see you guys next time |
| [12:09] | James Silberfeld: | yes i get way more raving and tiny gripes |
| [12:09] | ErinSelene Llewellyn: | thanks for everything |
| [12:09] | Gaius Goodliffe remembers when 3000 was the typical number... | |
| [12:09] | Andrew Linden: | thanks for coming |
| [12:09] | Simon Linden: | See you all, gotta go too... |
| [12:09] | Rex Cronon: | bye everybody |
| [12:10] | Simon Linden: | Thanks everyone |
| [12:10] | Kitto Flora: | Lunchtime! |
| [12:10] | Rex Cronon: | have fun |
| [12:10] | James Silberfeld: | ty sir :) |
| [12:10] | Gaius Goodliffe: | cya |