User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2008 10 23

Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:

[17:04]	Sindy Tsure:	hi andrew
[17:04]	Andrew Linden:	hello
[17:04]	Maggie Darwin:	Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaandrew!
[17:04]	Siobhan McCallen:	falling stuff
[17:05]	Sindy Tsure:	my bad, siobhan.. it's off now :\
[17:05]	Andrew Linden:	Hang on while I downgrade my render options
[17:05]	Siobhan McCallen:	cool
[17:05]	Maggie Darwin:	(He's on a lappy, I betcha)
[17:05]	Andrew Linden:	That's better
[17:05]	Sindy Tsure:	Lappy486!
[17:06]	Andrew Linden:	Yes, I'm working remote today (Mountain View)
[17:06]	Andrew Linden:	and all I have is my laptop
[17:06]	Andrew Linden:	I had to switch to the Windows partition
[17:06]	Sindy Tsure:	no homestarrunner fans? :(
[17:06]	Andrew Linden:	which doesn't get much use
[17:06]	Maggie Darwin:	Aw.
[17:06]	Siobhan McCallen:	maggie is
[17:06]	Maggie Darwin giggles. I almost bought a Trogdor avi the other day.
[17:06]	Sindy Tsure:	:)
[17:06]	Sindy Tsure:	hi ella
[17:07]	Ellla McMahon:	hello everyone :)
[17:07]	Siobhan McCallen:	hi Ella
[17:07]	Andrew Linden:	You know, I was first exposed to Homestarrunner when someone in SL had a StrongBad avatar
[17:07]	Maggie Darwin:	Hiya Ella.
[17:07]	Sindy Tsure:	heh
[17:07]	Andrew Linden:	Then I went to the site and watched a bunch of the videos
[17:07]	Sindy Tsure:	wb, arawn
[17:07]	Siobhan McCallen:	wb arawn
[17:07]	Sindy Tsure lost a 1/2 day at work when somebody first showed it to me.. sat around watching the vids
[17:07]	Siobhan McCallen:	oof
[17:08]	Maggie Darwin:	Table dance!
[17:08]	Arawn Spitteler:	At least I didn't rez upstairs. Nobody else got logged off region?
[17:08]	Andrew Linden:	Last Tuesday I mentioned that the 1.25-Server was going up on the damballah grid
[17:08]	Maggie Darwin:	Just you.
[17:08]	Andrew Linden:	however, turns out that damballah is never opened to the public
[17:08]	Simon Linden:	Don't think so ... I always get rezzed up there
[17:08]	Sindy Tsure sticks a L$ on one of arawns horns
[17:08]	Andrew Linden:	so 1.25-Server won't be open for public beta until it shows up on aditi
[17:08]	Andrew Linden:	which will be next week, hopefully
[17:09]	Sindy Tsure:	damballah is QA's grid?
[17:09]	Maggie Darwin:	1.25...sounds interesting. I hadn't seen release notes yet.
[17:09]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, one of them.
[17:09]	Andrew Linden:	1.25-Server has been months in coming
[17:09]	Arawn Spitteler:	Linden Alts are allowed?
[17:09]	Andrew Linden:	it has a bunch of stuff that was done back in July and earlier
[17:09]	Sindy Tsure:	the wobbly camera bug fix!
[17:09]	Maggie Darwin:	Yes, llSetBreath(BATED)
[17:09]	Andrew Linden:	in fact, I pushed some mainteance (cleanup only) code through that had been done in April or May, I think
[17:10]	Andrew Linden:	that will see its first light in 1.25-Server
[17:10]	Andrew Linden:	yeah, camera oscillation fix is in 1.25-Server
[17:10]	Andrew Linden:	as is the fix for SVC-2511
[17:10]	Siobhan McCallen:	collisions?
[17:10]	Siobhan McCallen:	woot!
[17:10]	Andrew Linden:	I can't remember any of the others
[17:10]	Maggie Darwin:	SVC-2511 Serious Object-Avatar collision problems in 1.22.2 and above
	SVC-2723 Change in llPushObject strength cap behavior 1.22 -> 1.23 simulator release?
[17:10]	Siobhan McCallen:	got some to ask about
[17:10]	Sindy Tsure:	is any of your perf goodies making it into 1.25, Simon?
[17:10]	Sindy Tsure:	*are
[17:10]	Arawn Spitteler:	SVC-2931 still borked?
[17:11]	Andrew Linden:	however, whenever it goes up on aditi I'll troll through the "fix pending" bugs and comment on the ones that are deployed for public beta
[17:11]	Andrew Linden:	Yes Arawn, SVC-2931 is still borked
[17:11]	Simon Linden:	There are a few performance improvements in there, I'm actually looking now to see what ...
[17:12]	Maggie Darwin:	Am I right that there are no pulished release notes as yet for server 1.25?
[17:12]	Arawn Spitteler:	I thought of a posible improvement, on the collision buffer problem, but don't know if it's actually possible.
[17:12]	Andrew Linden:	Today I didn't want to come to office hours. I was hacking and slashing a whole bunch of code. I must have moved at least 1000 lines today.
[17:12]	Sindy Tsure:	oh purpose?
[17:12]	Sindy Tsure:	*on
[17:12]	Andrew Linden:	What was your idea Arawn?
[17:13]	Arawn Spitteler:	In stead of adding a decimeter, to the collision space, make the two decimeters a minimum.
[17:13]	Ellla McMahon:	Prospero, said earlier today, that he was just finishing the release notes for 1.25
[17:13]	Arawn Spitteler:	Michael, though, seems to've ordained the north continent railroad be put to sleep
[17:14]	Andrew Linden:	so no prims smaller than 0.2m on a side?
[17:14]	Sindy Tsure:	er.. that will cause riots
[17:14]	Siobhan McCallen breaks out the smelling salts and has it ready for maggie
[17:14]	Andrew Linden:	Gah, I forgot to track down Michael
[17:14]	Maggie Darwin:	I was on the railroad in Atoll Continent today.
[17:14]	Arawn Spitteler:	They won't collide smaller, as is, but I don't know why the buffer would exist on something larger.
[17:14]	Maggie Darwin:	What is that about?
[17:15]	Andrew Linden:	The Havok physics engine uses the 0.1m collision tolerance to reduced the number of interpenetrations.
[17:15]	Arawn Spitteler:	The Railroad that Nigel Linden built, hasn't been running under H4, and Michael hasn't been diligent. The rail the trains rode on, no longer fit, and the prim seam bump was never pfixed.
[17:16]	Andrew Linden:	Their engine used to not handle interpenetrations well, so they went to great costs to avoid them.
[17:16]	Andrew Linden:	Havok4 handles interpenetrations better... but they haven't remove the collision tolerance yet.
[17:16]	Sindy Tsure:	and that's why the train broke
[17:16]	Sindy Tsure:	?
[17:16]	Arawn Spitteler:	Why not just use Predictive Solids?
[17:16]	Arawn Spitteler:	Probably why.
[17:17]	Andrew Linden:	I was going to talk to Michael about the trains and see if he didnt' want to deed the land to some train enthusiasts.
[17:17]	Andrew Linden:	However, I suspect that there are problems there... sets precidents and whatnot.
[17:18]	Andrew Linden:	People would cry favoritism.
[17:18]	Siobhan McCallen:	if you put it up for sale, they'll scream "you're destroying the economy"
[17:18]	Arawn Spitteler:	We already have Moles, so train enthusiasts wouldn't be unreasonable.
[17:18]	Simon Linden:	Seems like there could be a middle-ground by opening up access to a group and not deeding the land, but that's just an idea
[17:18]	Sindy Tsure:	the train people are pretty well known, aren't they? maybe they could be contracted as moles to rebuild the train and LL could keep it..
[17:19]	Sindy Tsure:	hi rex
[17:19]	Rex Cronon:	hi sindy
[17:19]	Rex Cronon:	hi everybody
[17:19]	Siobhan McCallen:	allow resident engineers to work on it as volunteers
[17:19]	Andrew Linden:	yeah, i can only speculate at the moment. I'll try to remember to talk to Michael about it.
[17:19]	Maggie Darwin:	Hello, Rex.
[17:19]	Simon Linden:	Hi Rex
[17:19]	Siobhan McCallen:	sort of like the mentors
[17:19]	Rex Cronon:	hiii
[17:19]	Sindy Tsure has fond memories of exploring by following the slrr and being hit by the train.. would hate to see it go..
[17:20]	Siobhan McCallen:	maggie's been going up and down it for months.
[17:20]	Arawn Spitteler:	Disneyland has a railroad, and SL would be foolish to neglect the wisdom of Walt
[17:20]	Sindy Tsure smiles
[17:21]	Siobhan McCallen:	I've got an annoying bug.
[17:21]	Andrew Linden:	What bug is it?
[17:21]	Siobhan McCallen:	svc-476
[17:21]	Siobhan McCallen:	it's causing me some difficulty with subsidiary users in vehicles being able to use items.
[17:22]	Siobhan McCallen:	events generated by passengers don't return the passenger's key, they return the owner's key
[17:22]	Andrew Linden:	hrm... that should be easy to fix
[17:22]	Siobhan McCallen:	it's not trappable
[17:22]	Sindy Tsure:	comment says it's been like that forever
[17:22]	Andrew Linden:	oh...
[17:22]	Sindy Tsure has a hard time seeing how fixing it would break content, tho
[17:22]	Andrew Linden:	well I'm not sure I want to fix a bug that has been there forever...
[17:22]	Siobhan McCallen:	I know. I found it and posted to it on the JIRA and have been trying to drum up comments on it
[17:23]	Rex Cronon:	they become legacy bugs:)
[17:23]	Andrew Linden:	sigh... I wonder how much content will break should anyone fix it.
[17:23]	Siobhan McCallen:	could see on the beta grid
[17:23]	Sindy Tsure would vote for that to be a "fix and see how many people notice" bug
[17:23]	Siobhan McCallen:	I would too
[17:23]	Andrew Linden:	What do you think Simon?
[17:24]	Maggie Darwin:	It is really unexpected results.
[17:24]	Simon Linden:	Not sure ... I'm reading the bug now...
[17:24]	Sindy Tsure voted before reading all of it
[17:24]	Arawn Spitteler:	Systems would be able to return the owner's key, without that bug
[17:24]	Siobhan McCallen:	right now, I'm having to use gestures to trigger subsidiary functions instead of standard permission-based controls because of this problem
[17:24]	Maggie Darwin:	An event claims to identify who caused it, not who owns the object the script is in.
[17:24]	Siobhan McCallen:	if the owner is the one who triggers the event, it should return the owner's key.
[17:25]	Sindy Tsure:	there's always llGetOwner.. script owner will always be the object owner, right?
[17:25]	Maggie Darwin:	There's probably *several* right ways to get the owner.
[17:26]	Maggie Darwin:	Havig somebody else sit and looking at the key on their events shouldn't be one of them.
[17:26]	Siobhan McCallen:	true. but a touch event, or a mouse click event isn't returning the key of the person who did it, and that's contrary to the documentation
[17:26]	Andrew Linden:	Well, if the behavior is totally unexpected, then mabye there isn't much content that uses it that way
[17:26]	Andrew Linden:	so it may be safe to fix
[17:26]	Simon Linden:	yeah, returning the owner key seems just wrong
[17:26]	Andrew Linden:	Alright. I'll take ownership (unless Simon wants it) and try to fix it next week in my copius spare time.
[17:27]	Sindy Tsure mentions http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-22 out of habit
[17:27]	Maggie Darwin:	Um...did I miss an answer....are there release notes for 1.25?
[17:27]	Simon Linden:	You can send that my way if you want, I may have time soon
[17:27]	Arawn Spitteler:	If anyone has time for it, give it to the guy who'll get it done.
[17:27]	Maggie Darwin:	Yes SVC-22 is a big PITA for me.
[17:27]	Siobhan McCallen chimes in with Sindy on SVC-22 just cuz
[17:27]	Maggie Darwin:	SVC-22 and friends.
[17:27]	Andrew Linden:	Maggie, probably not yet. When it goes public the release notes will probably be available.
[17:28]	Maggie Darwin:	Look, if it's never going to be fixed, something should be done to SVC-22 admitting it.
[17:28]	Sindy Tsure:	though if i had to pick between svc-22 and not getting tossed from a vehicle when it hits a ban line, i'd take the later
[17:28]	Siobhan McCallen:	appreciate 476 getting fixed, Andrew. It's blocking some of my products beign done right.
[17:28]	Arawn Spitteler:	Prospero might be waiting on rports from QA
[17:28]	Arawn Spitteler:	476?
[17:29]	Siobhan McCallen:	the owner-key bug we just discussed
[17:29]	Siobhan McCallen:	just saying tanku verry much
[17:30]	Andrew Linden:	SVC-22 is much harder to fix, and I'm already full-up on some other stuff. I can't pick up that project right now.
[17:30]	Maggie Darwin:	OK...SVC-2511 is in 1.25...how about SVC-2723? The push cap behavior in 1.23?
[17:30]	Maggie Darwin:	But there is an intention to fix SVC-22 when possible? It's huge for vehicle users.
[17:31]	Arawn Spitteler:	What does SVC-22 do?
[17:31]	Maggie Darwin:	I can appreciate that the fixes are huge to make too.
[17:31]	Maggie Darwin:	"Parcel restrictions inappropriately applied to vehicles on border crossings."
[17:31]	Sindy Tsure:	if you cross a sim line in a vehicle and the parcel on the other side is full, all sorts of weird things happen
[17:32]	Andrew Linden:	Yes Maggie, I have intentions on fixing SVC-22
[17:32]	Siobhan McCallen:	mostly, you get booted off it and it gets returned, and it shouldn't.
[17:32]	Sindy Tsure:	people get tossed and stuck in animations, the vehicle sorta goes ghosted until you relog, etc..
[17:32]	Maggie Darwin:	Just parcel bioundaries alone can be a problem, especially full ones
[17:32]	Andrew Linden:	and friends
[17:32]	Arawn Spitteler:	Oh, yeah, I'll bet Andrew hasn't done a road trip, in a while.
[17:32]	Siobhan McCallen:	although, of late the big problem has been expired_region_handoff
[17:32]	Maggie Darwin:	I wrote an inter-sim jump drive for Sio's starships....when it encounters a full parcel bad things happen.
[17:33]	Sindy Tsure:	is that a symptom of something specific or is it sortofa general timeout?
[17:33]	Sindy Tsure:	expired_region_handoff
[17:33]	Maggie Darwin:	Yes, I get those even in Nautilus.
[17:33]	Siobhan McCallen:	expired region handoffs are when dragons eat your ship
[17:33]	Andrew Linden:	Sindy, I think there are a lot of things that could cause expired_region_handoff
[17:33]	Maggie Darwin:	And between Station Alpha and Starbase Alpha.
[17:33]	Sindy Tsure:	yep.. there's a couple sims in nautilus where that happens a lot.. :\
[17:33]	Arawn Spitteler:	Expired Region Handoff, when the region you were in forgets about you, but the region you're entering doesn't figure out what you are?
[17:34]	Siobhan McCallen:	sounds about right
[17:34]	Maggie Darwin:	Wither servers split between colos and traffice between them routed though a VPN...well...
[17:34]	Sindy Tsure:	no.. it recovers, arawn.. you go flying off into space for a while first, though
[17:34]	Andrew Linden:	region crossings are still fragile. there is more than one way for them to break
[17:34]	Sindy Tsure:	ty, andrew
[17:34]	Arawn Spitteler:	I remember a few months ago, that they were the rule.
[17:35]	Siobhan McCallen:	been getting them a lot with sailboats lately. and the jumpdrive gets them once in a while, usually going between a full sim and an opensim
[17:35]	Andrew Linden:	I haven't worked on region crossings in a while, so I'm foggy on how exactly it happens these days.
[17:35]	Maggie Darwin:	The way OpenSims are being abused is a disaster waiting to happen.
[17:35]	Andrew Linden:	You mean OpenSpace regions Maggie?
[17:35]	Maggie Darwin:	Just like cable companies overselling theor bandwidth.
[17:36]	Andrew Linden:	Not to be confused with OpenSim.
[17:36]	Maggie Darwin:	Sorry, OpenSpaces is what I mean, yes.
[17:36]	Sindy Tsure:	that's a private estate thing, though.. LL is careful where they put theirs..
[17:36]	Siobhan McCallen:	void sims...
[17:36]	Andrew Linden:	Right, OpenSpace regions need work
[17:37]	Siobhan McCallen:	yes, I meant OpenSpace Regions, too
[17:37]	Sindy Tsure:	some private estate owners aren't being especially honest.. sorta leaving out the fact that land they're selling is on an openspace
[17:37]	Maggie Darwin:	"FULL 65,536sqm Commercial/ Residential Class5 Islands"
[17:37]	Maggie Darwin:	And it's OpenSpaces.
[17:37]	Sindy Tsure nods
[17:37]	Maggie Darwin:	That to my minde is noob exploitation
[17:38]	Andrew Linden:	I think Simon was going to fim them ;-)
[17:38]	Andrew Linden:	er... fix them
[17:38]	Maggie Darwin:	And bordering on fraudulant
[17:38]	Rex Cronon:	this is not "full disclosure"
[17:38]	Arawn Spitteler:	That doesn't sound at all, like it borders on Fraud.
[17:38]	Arawn Spitteler:	Full meaning something expressly different from Open Space
[17:38]	Maggie Darwin:	How can it be "Residential" when LL *used* to say at least that they wer enot suitable for living in?
[17:39]	Sindy Tsure:	seems the viewer should either know or be able to figure out pretty easily if it's an openspace.. just having the Buy Land floater flag openspace sims with a link to the KB would make much of the problem go away
[17:39]	Maggie Darwin:	Well, they *are* "selling" the full sim.
[17:39]	Siobhan McCallen:	but it is not *A* full sim
[17:39]	Maggie Darwin:	There's a PJIRA against the viewer asking for a clear indication. As it is you count prims.
[17:40]	Sindy Tsure:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-8768
[17:40]	Sindy Tsure:	"Buy Land dialog should make it obvious if the land is on an openspace region"
[17:40]	Siobhan McCallen:	oh...a digression...sorry to have to ask, but who does triage on voice chat issues?
[17:41]	Sindy Tsure notices both andrew and simon look eager to fix ui bugs!
[17:41]	Maggie Darwin:	If that switch is on that keeps you from seeing the sim-wide prim count it an be hard to tell
[17:41]	Andrew Linden:	Not sure who is working on voice.
[17:41]	Siobhan McCallen:	got a poor guy with vwr-8899 who doesn't know who to talk to for advanced help
[17:41]	Simon Linden:	Ah, I avoid the viewer if I can
[17:42]	Sindy Tsure:	but prim bonus is sim-wide.. the math is easy to figure out if a parcel has an openspace amount of prims or a full sim amount
[17:42]	Maggie Darwin:	Just plug the ethernet cable into your ear?
[17:42]	Siobhan McCallen:	we've tried everything we can to get his voice working, and it just won't go
[17:43]	Maggie Darwin:	I think asking people to do math to find out if they're in a server slum is unreasonable.
[17:43]	Sindy Tsure:	no.. have the viewer do the math..
[17:43]	Arawn Spitteler:	I had that problem, when Voice was new, but now it only adds to the lag.
[17:43]	Rex Cronon:	u should make sure that the mike is plugged in and working:)
[17:43]	Siobhan McCallen:	it'd really be a kick in the teeth if the problem was a bad mike
[17:44]	Simon Linden:	There was some recent code added to the sim and viewer to exchange more info about the sim ... class, location and such
[17:44]	Arawn Spitteler:	Mike shouldn't effect reception
[17:44]	Maggie Darwin:	I really don't think its a mic problem.
[17:44]	DEV-8445: Hello, Avatar!
[17:44]	Maggie Darwin:	He can;t get the dot on
[17:44]	Siobhan McCallen:	won't even connect
[17:44]	Maggie Darwin:	But that's off topic for these guys
[17:44]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah sorta.
[17:44]	Andrew Linden:	If I wasn't so swamped I might try to take a look
[17:44]	Siobhan McCallen:	just wondering whose office hours I should have him go hang on a hook in
[17:45]	Arawn Spitteler:	Nothing's really off topic, but maybe not in Andrew's hat.
[17:45]	Andrew Linden:	but voice is way outside my field of expertise, and I've already got stuff to work on the side
[17:45]	Siobhan McCallen:	mike's good. he uses it in other MMORPGs
[17:45]	Arawn Spitteler:	Office GHours are officially not for support, but a special case can be offered as Hypothetical...
[17:45]	Andrew Linden:	I'd feel kinda unproductive if it took me three hours just to start to figure out how to troubleshoot a voice problem.
[17:45]	Siobhan McCallen:	hypothetically speaking, of course
[17:46]	Rex Cronon:	maybe would be nice if ll were to privede a toll for testing what is wrong with the voice connection
[17:46]	Siobhan McCallen:	could turn out to be a wider issue
[17:46]	Arawn Spitteler:	Who should be asked, if there's nobody to ask? CG has an hour in the monring.
[17:46]	Sindy Tsure:	a couple week's ago, you mentioned the possibility of a few devs attacking some low-hanging-fruit suggestions.. any news there?
[17:46]	DEV-8445: Hello, Avatar!
[17:47]	Andrew Linden:	No Sindy. I was going to approach Babbage about it, but never did. Things are just so busy right now.
[17:47]	Sindy Tsure:	ok.. i'll ask again in a few weeks.. i thought it was a great idea! :)
[17:47]	Maggie Darwin:	So...Andrew...SVC-2723 is yours...the push cap....I'm guessing there's not a fix yet since it's not mentioned in the pjira?
[17:47]	Andrew Linden:	yeah, ask again later
[17:48]	Andrew Linden:	Maggie, I need to read SVC-2723 carefully again. I suspect it was cuased by a deliberate change we made.
[17:48]	Maggie Darwin:	The drift of it as I read was that attempts to apply push over the cap were ignored rather than simply being capped.
[17:49]	Andrew Linden:	There were some bugs where the stupid "script energy" bugdget was not getting properly depleted when you tried to use 1000X the budget you had
[17:49]	Maggie Darwin:	I have trouble understanding the rationale that makes that good when it breaks content.
[17:49]	Siobhan McCallen:	if someone puts "9999999999" in for the push value, it doesn't get capped at max, it goes to 0.
[17:49]	Andrew Linden:	I suspect the pushes are trying to go way over budget and getting slammed
[17:49]	Sindy Tsure:	maybe related to the fact that orbit doesn't work any more?
[17:50]	Andrew Linden:	yes, could be related to broken orbits
[17:50]	Arawn Spitteler:	Remember the story of the Japanese Typing Paper?
[17:50]	Maggie Darwin:	Go ahead and cap push. But if somebody asks for too much, why give them none?
[17:50]	Sindy Tsure does not miss being orbited
[17:50]	Andrew Linden:	I need to read the bug, and review the code. I can't do it right now... takes too much concentration.
[17:50]	Maggie Darwin:	It was OK in 1.22.
[17:50]	Sindy Tsure:	japanese typing paper?
[17:51]	Sindy Tsure wonders if she will regret asking...
[17:51]	Maggie Darwin:	"Mom, can I have two cookies?" "No, we only have one, so you can't have any."
[17:52]	Sindy Tsure:	arawn is still typing.. this is going to start with "3 japanese typists walk into a bar..."
[17:52]	Maggie Darwin:	sideways
[17:52]	Rex Cronon:	i thing that what maggie says makes a lot of sense
[17:52]	Arawn Spitteler:	In Operation Petty Coat, a submarine was getting ready for service, but supply wouldn't deliver Toilet Paper. First Officer went and requisitioned some Japanese Typing Paper, for their captured Japanese TYyperwriters, very delicate, comes in rolls, four inches wide. But the order was placed on the basis that it would only be partially filled, and they came away with a monopoly.
[17:52]	Sindy Tsure:	lol
[17:53]	Siobhan McCallen:	Orbit seems to have gotten a very flexible meaning. Used to be +/- 2 billion meters. Now it's being moved off the ground any height at all. If that was an orbit, NASA would be using slingshots.
[17:53]	Rex Cronon:	lol
[17:53]	Simon Linden:	Guess we need to have gravity decay with altitude ....
[17:53]	Arawn Spitteler:	80 kilometers, according to a russo-american treaty
[17:53]	Maggie Darwin:	And this is in a parcel where push is explicitly turned on.
[17:54]	Maggie Darwin:	If you don't wanna be pushed, turn it off.
[17:54]	Rex Cronon:	there are still ways to orbit
[17:54]	Maggie Darwin:	As it is, for some existing content, it's forced no-push.
[17:54]	Arawn Spitteler:	Just don't tell Andrew
[17:55]	Andrew Linden:	Alright Maggie, I'll try to review it next week.
[17:55]	Andrew Linden:	Probably not before Tuesday's hour, but maybe before next Thursday.
[17:55]	Maggie Darwin:	Thanks. We used to have fun with push...now we have to rebuy a lot of stuff, and some stuff will never be fixed.
[17:55]	Siobhan McCallen:	yes, consentual fun ;)
[17:56]	Maggie Darwin:	Just to get it back on your screen, I know all you guys are busy.
[17:56]	Andrew Linden:	We've got another 5 minutes or so. Anybody have any last minute things to raise?
[17:56]	Maggie Darwin:	You'll never see me at Tuesday hours, I have a day job. :-)
[17:56]	Arawn Spitteler:	Did the Bato Fix shed any light, on the Prim Seam Bump Bug?
[17:56]	Sindy Tsure:	you or simon have a chance to visit nautilus city yet?
[17:56]	Maggie Darwin:	SVC-212 New Feature Request - llTeleportAgent?
[17:56]	Siobhan McCallen:	just getting it out there...
[17:57]	Andrew Linden:	No I haven't seen Nautilus.
[17:57]	Simon Linden:	I haven't been there ... what do you think of it?
[17:57]	Maggie Darwin:	I have...took a little while to find the rez zones for my sailboat
[17:57]	Arawn Spitteler:	Is that new? I was just thinking, it would be nice to have a place to send people, rather than away.
[17:57]	Sindy Tsure:	it's pretty cool! some really good content
[17:57]	Siobhan McCallen:	It's pretty
[17:57]	Maggie Darwin:	Typical built-to-look-at from LL.
[17:57]	Andrew Linden:	I think it is new mainland content, which doesn't pop up too often these days.
[17:57]	Maggie Darwin:	Like Bay City, but with rez zones. ;-)
[17:57]	Sindy Tsure:	could use some tweaks but overall i like it.. will probably try to snag a parcel or 2 if the prices don't go silly
[17:58]	Maggie Darwin:	Actually I beleve it's adjacent to an existing continent
[17:58]	Sindy Tsure:	no.. just a big island.. 80 sims i think, including water
[17:58]	Siobhan McCallen:	of course, some people are screaming bloody murder about property values, but there's no pleasing them
[17:58]	Siobhan McCallen:	it's near Corsica, as I remember
[17:58]	Andrew Linden:	There are a few easter eggs in the content, I think.
[17:58]	Sindy Tsure:	all the regions have 'nautilus' in their name..easy to find on the map
[17:58]	Sindy Tsure:	yep! i got a dolphin :)
[17:58]	Maggie Darwin:	It's north off....
[17:59]	Sindy Tsure:	and some hidden parts to the build
[17:59]	Maggie Darwin:	Myst-like
[17:59]	Maggie Darwin:	North of South Continent
[17:59]	Sindy Tsure:	not much scripted there, though.. it would be nice to see more LL/mole scripted stuff
[18:00]	Maggie Darwin:	No, not south continent
[18:00]	Simon Linden:	I think I'll check it out after the meeting
[18:00]	Sindy Tsure:	people always complain about property values, regardless of what LL does..
[18:00]	Maggie Darwin:	Freaking map takes forever to load
[18:00]	Sindy Tsure:	raise prices, they scream. lower prices, they scream
[18:01]	Sindy Tsure:	build stuff, they scream. don't build stuff, they scream
[18:01]	Maggie Darwin:	But definately not an island
[18:01]	Andrew Linden:	yeah, it is a mix of perspectives
[18:01]	Siobhan McCallen:	appreciate the time and efforts, andrew and simon!
[18:01]	Maggie Darwin:	People expect SL real estate to behave like RL real estate has...and it doesn't
[18:01]	Andrew Linden:	you're welcome
[18:01]	Sindy Tsure:	well.. both did crash.. :)
[18:01]	Maggie Darwin:	Oh, yes indeed, gentlemen.
[18:01]	Andrew Linden:	hey I've got a question...
[18:02]	Arawn Spitteler:	That other World has screams of its own.
[18:02]	Sindy Tsure:	bring it, andrew!
[18:02]	Andrew Linden:	anybody attend LL office hours that use voice?
[18:02]	Maggie Darwin:	I can use voice.
[18:02]	Siobhan McCallen:	only when I can't avoid it.
[18:02]	Andrew Linden:	I'm curious to find out opinions about how well it works, or not.
[18:02]	Rex Cronon:	nope
[18:02]	Andrew Linden:	What is preferred?
[18:02]	Rex Cronon:	txt
[18:02]	Siobhan McCallen:	I prefer text because Ihave a log of it
[18:02]	Maggie Darwin:	But I think having a transcript is very important, even though it does slow discourse
[18:02]	Arawn Spitteler:	No Record of Voice
[18:03]	Siobhan McCallen:	I like to be able to refer to what I said
[18:03]	Maggie Darwin:	If you move it to voice I'll never know what happens on Tuesdays
[18:03]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, that is the main reason I run the hour in text, so I can publish it for full disclosure, and for reference.
[18:03]	Maggie Darwin:	I agree. And there are accessibility issues, but those cut both ways.
[18:03]	Siobhan McCallen:	rather have it in text
[18:03]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, just curious. I won't bother experimenting with voice then.
[18:04]	Sindy Tsure:	i think it's easier for the more technical discussions, too.. a bit easier to compose your thoughts with text, imo
[18:04]	Sindy Tsure:	cya, folks! TY, Andrew & Simon!
[18:04]	Siobhan McCallen:	curious to know what kind of "new ship" Magellan Linden was using.
[18:04]	Rex Cronon:	bye everybody
[18:04]	Sindy Tsure:	the mole tank!
[18:04]	Maggie Darwin:	It's part of the backstory
[18:04]	Simon Linden:	Thanks everyone, see you next time
[18:04]	Rex Cronon:	have"fun":)
[18:04]	Siobhan McCallen:	ah
[18:04]	Maggie Darwin:	A tunneling machine
[18:04]	Siobhan McCallen:	ok
[18:05]	Maggie Darwin:	Bye!
[18:05]	Sindy Tsure guesses it's near the "Nautilus - Edin" region
[18:05]	Arawn Spitteler:	Tunneling?Where you dig ditches, and top themk over?
[18:05]	Sindy Tsure:	no.. it's in "Nautilus - Mysehi"