User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2008 11 20

Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:

[17:02]	Voice not available at your current location
[17:03]	Sindy Tsure:	hi andrew
[17:03]	Jahar Aabye:	hey everyone
[17:04]	Rex Cronon:	hello everybody
[17:04]	Simon Linden:	Hi
[17:04]	Sindy Tsure thinks the slurl needs +1 or so in the Z bit
[17:04]	Jahar Aabye:	including those who clearly haven't rezzed on my screen yet
[17:04]	Jahar Aabye:	for some reason the map always puts me at a Z of 0 or whatever the lowest point it
[17:04]	Jahar Aabye:	*is
[17:04]	Sindy Tsure:	hi rez
[17:04]	Simon Linden:	my original landmark put everyone inside on the 2nd floor
[17:04]	Sindy Tsure:	*x
[17:04]	Rex Cronon:	is there something wrong with the logins?
[17:05]	Sindy Tsure:	hm.. are you a brit? is that the 2nd floor from the ground or the 3rd?
[17:05]	Andrew Linden:	I'm going to go leave a little reminder at the old location.
[17:05]	Andrew Linden:	BRB
[17:06]	Jahar Aabye:	yeah, you guys gave us a taste of 1.25 and then took it away, like giving the kids a puppy for xmas and then taking it back to the pound
[17:06]	Arawn Spitteler:	Oh, did you hear of the Hug Bug, on 1.25.1?
[17:06]	Arawn Spitteler:	It's not Christmas, yet.
[17:06]	Simon Linden:	The good news with 1.25 is that most of the problems weren't with the simulator itself, but the other back-end software
[17:06]	Jahar Aabye:	oh, it felt like it at Pure Combat
[17:07]	Simon Linden:	What was the hug bug?
[17:07]	Rex Cronon:	i copied and paste, so i couldn't possibly make a mistake
[17:07]	Arawn Spitteler:	Andrew is White, instead of Cloudy
[17:07]	Sindy Tsure:	sadly, the puppy wasn't doing really well.. it's best to be taken away and made better
[17:07]	Jahar Aabye:	for a few hours, bullet collisions were working perfectly
[17:07]	Simon Linden:	oooh, that's good to hear
[17:07]	Jahar Aabye:	hehehe, the only downside was I got killed a lot faster
[17:08]	Andrew Linden:	Yeah, what is the hug bug?
[17:08]	Arawn Spitteler:	The Hug Bug is where you ask to hug someone, and your attachment gets perms, and procedes, regardless of whether Bridey Linden really consented or not.
[17:08]	Jahar Aabye:	yeah, that would have been a huge problem, potentially....since "deformers" work by triggering special animations
[17:08]	Sindy Tsure:	prospero listed that one as the reason to back out 1.25
[17:08]	Jahar Aabye:	you could have walked into a sim and deformed every av in there with that bug
[17:08]	Andrew Linden:	Uh... it is a permissions bug in LSL.
[17:08]	Sindy Tsure:	yep
[17:09]	Andrew Linden:	So some things other than hugs might be affected.
[17:09]	Jahar Aabye:	hopefully not debit perms
[17:09]	Sindy Tsure:	SVC-3436
[17:09]	Simon Linden:	I saw that one, or something similar with permissions, on our list this morning. I think someone in the UK office is taking it
[17:09]	Arawn Spitteler figures the servers would revert, faster than he could hand out "I refuse to give thousands to that damned beggar," Buttons
[17:09]	Sindy Tsure:	oh.. more than just animate permissions??
[17:10]	Sindy Tsure eeps!
[17:10]	Jahar Aabye:	well, fortunately any transactions are logged, so even in worst case scenarios, things could be remedied
[17:11]	Sindy Tsure:	the jira just says animations..
[17:11]	Sindy Tsure:	probably would have moved it to sec if it was also debit
[17:11]	Arawn Spitteler:	I don't think we tested llGiveMoney
[17:11]	Andrew Linden:	Easier said than done I'm sue, Jahar.
[17:12]	Sindy Tsure:	sued!
[17:12]	Sindy Tsure:	hi ella
[17:12]	Andrew Linden:	My big headache in server-1.25 is SVC-3408
[17:12]	Arawn Spitteler:	I don't understand, or see any documentation for, the objection to accepting the Misfeature
[17:12]	Jahar Aabye:	hehehe, I really think that one's going to be a headache no matter what you do, best to just keep things simple with llSetLinkPrimitiveParams() and make a new function
[17:13]	Sindy Tsure:	mentioned you in the description.. ouch..
[17:13]	Arawn Spitteler:	Is Darling on line?
[17:13]	Andrew Linden:	unfortunately the very long MONO release has allowed the large linkability distnces of avatars durng llSetPrimParams() into a misfeature
[17:13]	Sindy Tsure:	yep
[17:14]	Rex Cronon:	u could do that before mono
[17:14]	Andrew Linden:	arg... either my wireless keyboard needs baterries, or I've got bad reception to the bluetooth transmitter
[17:14]	Jahar Aabye:	the thing is, and correct me if I'm wrong, the only two misfeatures that have ever actually been grandfathered in were megaprims and invisiprims....and the former are still headache-inducing
[17:14]	Andrew Linden:	no Jahar, there have been many misfeatures
[17:14]	Andrew Linden:	some of them just look like features now
[17:14]	Jahar Aabye:	ah
[17:14]	Jahar Aabye:	ok
[17:15]	Sindy Tsure:	i think invisiprims are an actual feature.. no?
[17:15]	Arawn Spitteler:	I don't see any problems with Megaprims, and llSetLinkPrimitiveParams for Avies is a notorious misfeature.
[17:15]	Andrew Linden:	currently megaprims and linkability of avatars are two that are only partially supported
[17:15]	Jahar Aabye:	the thing is, some of the things proposed for llMoveSeatedAvatar() sound like they could lead to some really cool content
[17:15]	Andrew Linden:	er... partially broken
[17:15]	Jahar Aabye:	some of which goes above and beyond what would be possible with llSetLinkPrimitiveParams()
[17:15]	Andrew Linden:	and supported as far as they are at LL chagrin
[17:17]	Sindy Tsure looks at the minimap.. i think sidewinder has a megaprim encroaching onto this region..
[17:17]	Jahar Aabye:	llSetLinkPrimitiveParams() just strikes me as a rather ungainly way to do it....I use it fairly frequently for changing properties of linked prims, for instance in attachments, but since it's really not intended for moving avatars around, a new feature would have the ability to fine tune it to that function
[17:17]	Sindy Tsure:	AR him, simon!!
[17:18]	Arawn Spitteler:	First, invite him over, so you can see his face, at the AR
[17:18]	Sindy Tsure:	lol
[17:18]	Andrew Linden:	I'm somewhat sad to report that I probably know of a way to make the retirement of the excessive llSetLinkPrimitiveParams() misfeature much more gently...
[17:18]	Andrew Linden:	but it means more work for me
[17:18]	Simon Linden:	good point, although he might be doing that in an attempt to get us to work on megaprims
[17:19]	Andrew Linden:	one moment... going to replace the batteries in my keyboard to see if it helps...
[17:19]	Jahar Aabye:	I'll remain silent on the subject of megaprims to avoid using expletives
[17:19]	Arawn Spitteler:	One problem I run into, is that we can no longer set our teleporters by touch. I think it interferes with seating, as well
[17:20]	Andrew Linden:	ok, it's working so far.
[17:20]	Simon Linden:	That's due to the AV link distance?
[17:20]	Arawn Spitteler:	Different issue, but I think it was borked in H4. Is there still an H1 sim, in Beta Grid?
[17:21]	Jahar Aabye:	well, I think there's more here than just teleporters....llSetLinkPrimitiveParams() offered the ability to move the avatar around, to move the seated av more than once, and while I think llSetLinkPrimitiveParams() is not the best way to do it, it's an ability that is definitely needed, albeit in a fully supported and fully documented function that can be fine-tuned to that use
[17:21]	Andrew Linden:	I'm thinking I should reintroduce the misfeature, implement llMoveSittingAvatar(), then make overreaching llSetLinkPrimitiveParams() calls actually call llMoveSittingAvatar() under the hood
[17:21]	Andrew Linden:	this would break some content, but not all
[17:21]	Simon Linden:	I don't think so ... there were a few security issues that have cropped up since H4 where we don't want to leave old regions running
[17:22]	Jahar Aabye:	hmmmm, could be an interesting solution
[17:23]	Jahar Aabye:	llMoveSittingAvatar() can have some really cool uses....I was thinking about your proposed ability to move an av from one object to another, that could be really cool for having a plane rez an ejection seat, and then move the av over to it, for instance
[17:23]	Andrew Linden:	yeah sorta... but the way it was proposed it would have to actually move the avatar to a spot outside of linkability
[17:23]	Arawn Spitteler:	I recall something, that force our viewers to upgrade, resulting in many failed smoke tests of Windlight, but Security can be lighter, on the Aditi, can't it?
[17:24]	Andrew Linden:	perhaps the call should take an integer that can unlink the avatar without causing it to stop sitting.
[17:24]	Andrew Linden:	so it woudl be sitting in the air
[17:24]	Andrew Linden:	hrm...
[17:24]	Sindy Tsure:	sortofa move-then-unsit?
[17:24]	Andrew Linden:	actually it would be better if the ejection seat could take the avatar with it
[17:24]	Jahar Aabye:	ah, I had thought you meant like being able to transfer an avatar from sitting on one object to sitting on the other
[17:25]	Andrew Linden:	that is, the ejection seat could make the call that pulls the avatar off
[17:25]	Andrew Linden:	yes jahar, however I think the example you describe would be difficult to do under the current design
[17:25]	Arawn Spitteler:	I wanted to link the avatar to my ivory soap, then unlink the soap from the rezzer, but had to settle, for making the agent reach for the soap
[17:26]	Andrew Linden:	the unlink/relink is automatic, and requires the avatar to move into an unlinkable position
[17:26]	Jahar Aabye:	ok
[17:26]	Andrew Linden:	hrm...
[17:27]	Jahar Aabye:	actually, that'd probably be doable too, move the avatar up high enough and have the plan dive to the ground, or something like that
[17:27]	Jahar Aabye:	they'd just have to move the avatar far away
[17:27]	Jahar Aabye:	dunno
[17:27]	Jahar Aabye:	it was just one application I'd thought of
[17:27]	Andrew Linden:	I haven't thought the implementation all the way through.
[17:28]	Andrew Linden:	it might be possible to allow a second object to pull the avatar off the first
[17:28]	Andrew Linden:	rather than have the first push the avatar out of reach
[17:28]	Jahar Aabye:	ok
[17:28]	Andrew Linden:	however, that violates one of the design criteria
[17:28]	Jahar Aabye:	yeah, and causes some issues in terms of abuse, don't want anyone to be able to pull you off an object
[17:29]	Andrew Linden:	and could allow for two sloppily written scripts to fight over the avatar
[17:29]	Andrew Linden:	each one pulling the avatar back and forthe
[17:29]	Jahar Aabye:	hehehe
[17:29]	Jahar Aabye:	oh, Darling would probably script it to do that on purpose, I'd guess
[17:29]	Sindy Tsure:	lol
[17:29]	Andrew Linden:	well... the design would require that the second object have the same owner as the first
[17:29]	Jahar Aabye:	makes sense
[17:29]	Andrew Linden:	and you'd have to manually decide to sit in the first place
[17:29]	Jahar Aabye:	well, there's the rub
[17:30]	Andrew Linden:	and you could stand up anytime
[17:30]	Arawn Spitteler:	For an ejector seat, you'd simply place the avatar out of the plane, and attach the seat.
[17:30]	Jahar Aabye:	there are devices that rez transparent prims with left-click sit around an avatar
[17:30]	Jahar Aabye:	so I don't know that it's safe to assume that sitting is always voluntary
[17:30]	Jahar Aabye:	that's how llSetLinkPrimitiveParams() came to be abused in the first place
[17:31]	Andrew Linden:	oh I see, it would let you sit and then deposit you somewhere very far away?
[17:31]	Jahar Aabye:	yeah
[17:31]	Arawn Spitteler:	I don't know that llSLPP hass ever been abused. Is there a Jira on that?
[17:31]	Jahar Aabye:	when llSetLinkPrimitiveParams() had no limit at all, that "somewhere" was at max integer altitude
[17:32]	Jahar Aabye:	yeah, I can look it up if you want
[17:32]	Jahar Aabye:	that was actually what led to it being set back to the link distance
[17:32]	Jahar Aabye:	there were a large number of "H4 orbiters" out there that used it
[17:33]	Arawn Spitteler:	That just made them more powerful than Sit Target Orbitters.
[17:33]	Sindy Tsure:	set to transparent and touch-to-sit.. seen people drop those at my place.. :(
[17:33]	Andrew Linden:	perhaps the first object must flag itself to allow a second object to pull the avatar off
[17:33]	Andrew Linden:	after which it could no longer call llMoveSittingAvatar()
[17:34]	Jahar Aabye:	now, obviously one option is to limit what could be done with the new function....but if instead we had something like a permissions request, then there would be less need to limit what the new function can do
[17:34]	Andrew Linden:	meh... I'm just thinking out loud
[17:34]	Sindy Tsure:	wouldn't llAttachToAvatar help with some of this? that already exists..
[17:34]	Andrew Linden:	Permissions request just seems like a pain.
[17:34]	Sindy Tsure:	rather than passing avatars from one object to another
[17:34]	Andrew Linden:	A pain for the server-side implementation
[17:34]	Jahar Aabye:	ah, ok
[17:34]	Andrew Linden:	and also a pain for the scripter
[17:34]	Andrew Linden:	and the user
[17:35]	Jahar Aabye:	well, from a scripting standpoint, it just means moving what you want to do over to the run_time_permissions() event
[17:35]	Arawn Spitteler:	Blue Boxes show up over the minimaps, which is often a serious nuisance.
[17:35]	Jahar Aabye:	I guess I"m just used to it since most of my scripts involve control() events
[17:35]	Jahar Aabye:	but then again, I deal a lot with attachments that don't have to ask for permission
[17:36]	Andrew Linden:	I wonder if the script engine is ready for new script calls...
[17:36]	Jahar Aabye:	oh right, you guys haven't really tried adding new functions under Mono.....
[17:36]	Sindy Tsure starts chanting 'llParcelSay'
[17:36]	Andrew Linden:	I thought we were going to wait for MONO to be fully entrenched before we added more.
[17:37]	Sindy Tsure:	i thought the new touch functions came after mono arrived..
[17:37]	Sindy Tsure:	no?
[17:37]	Jahar Aabye:	same time
[17:37]	Andrew Linden:	what would llParcelSay() do? not propagate outside the parcel?
[17:37]	Arawn Spitteler:	llTouch... has expanded
[17:37]	Sindy Tsure:	exactly, andrew
[17:37]	Arawn Spitteler'd like llDetectedTarget and llFollowObject
[17:37]	Sindy Tsure:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1224 is the llparcelsay jira
[17:38]	Arawn Spitteler:	Welcome back, Ellla
[17:38]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... I could probably add a low-level script warning whenever llSLPP() is used to send the avatar outside of linkability
[17:39]	Jahar Aabye:	hmmm, not a bad idea
[17:39]	Andrew Linden:	"This misfeature will be removed someday. Try not to rely on it."
[17:39]	Jahar Aabye:	maybe even add in a short delay after the warning, like a half-second, so they could stand if they didn't want to be moved
[17:39]	Arawn Spitteler:	What's a low level Script Warning?
[17:39]	Sindy Tsure:	like a script error?
[17:39]	Jahar Aabye:	oh, I thought you meant a warning that the avatar was about to be moved
[17:39]	Andrew Linden:	well, there is a script error that pops up a little sprite above the affected script
[17:40]	Andrew Linden:	if you click on it you can see the error log of the script
[17:40]	Andrew Linden:	so it would go in there
[17:40]	Sindy Tsure:	hi sajanai
[17:40]	Saijanai Kuhn:	hey all
[17:40]	Rex Cronon:	hi
[17:41]	Arawn Spitteler:	I don't see a problem, with expanding linkability to a kilometer. Beyond that, I tended to lose control of sitting, but it's not an overwhelming distance, unless being used to grief.
[17:41]	Sindy Tsure:	not sure that would have the effect you want andrew.. most people who see it would be the object owner, not the creator..
[17:41]	Arawn Spitteler:	Hi, Saijanai
[17:41]	Simon Linden:	Hi Saijanai
[17:41]	Sindy Tsure gets script errors all the time from things she owns - i ignore most of them
[17:41]	Arawn Spitteler:	Script warnings show up, regardless of who the owner is.
[17:42]	Andrew Linden:	right Sindy, but new scriptors would see it when testing their products
[17:42]	Sindy Tsure:	true
[17:42]	Jahar Aabye:	well, it could be: "Please IM the creator of this object and tell them not to rely on misfeatures when scripting"
[17:42]	Andrew Linden:	it might be a way to reduce the reliance on a misfeature
[17:42]	Sindy Tsure:	too bad you couldn't do it at compile time..
[17:42]	Arawn Spitteler:	It's already a misfeature.
[17:42]	Andrew Linden:	and it might also convince a few people to not use, update, or discard affectd objects
[17:43]	Sindy Tsure would be fine with that :)
[17:43]	Andrew Linden:	Yes arawn, but if no one relied on it we could call it a bug and squash it... no one would care.
[17:43]	Jahar Aabye:	I know....but if I had a dime for every time I've seen a Stack/Heap error and wanted it to also say "please IM the scripter of this and refer them to the scripting wiki"
[17:43]	Sindy Tsure:	can you also add warnings to my neighbors spy crap scripts???
[17:43]	Sindy Tsure:	lol
[17:44]	Arawn Spitteler:	It took me a long time, to identify the b.places hud, as the culprit, but that's a UI issue
[17:45]	Andrew Linden:	Ok so Simon, is server-1.25 really blocked by a script give-permissions problem?
[17:45]	Arawn Spitteler:	It's doing good, if that's the only problem. I noticed that siton click's been fixed.
[17:45]	Simon Linden:	There's a variety of blockers
[17:46]	Simon Linden:	Let me check the email...
[17:47]	Sindy Tsure:	thought i read the central server sadness was due to 1.25..
[17:47]	Sindy Tsure:	that sounds like more than a permission bug
[17:47]	Andrew Linden:	yes, I think it was
[17:47]	Andrew Linden:	some of the blockers are not "simulator" issues, but problems in other servers in the system
[17:48]	Andrew Linden:	a lot of changes piled up behind MONO in the server-1.25 branch
[17:48]	Sindy Tsure:	4 months worth?
[17:48]	Jahar Aabye:	do the sims and backbone servers all have to be updated at the same time?
[17:48]	Andrew Linden:	no jahar, and backbone also runs on some other servers (not just simulator hosts)
[17:48]	Simon Linden:	There are a few of them : SVC-3436, SVC-3408, SVC-3379
[17:49]	Andrew Linden:	we call them "the centrals", but there is a small army of those
[17:49]	Andrew Linden:	we can roll the centrals independently
[17:49]	Sindy Tsure mumbles something about SVC-22 , since we're talking JIRA
[17:49]	Andrew Linden:	and it was after some of the central rolls that problems cropped up
[17:50]	Jahar Aabye:	heh, SVC-1038 would be nice too, but I'd rather get 1.25 up and running first
[17:50]	Sindy Tsure:	SVC-3379 is strange.. i'd expect a state change to always fire state_entry, even if it's the same state
[17:51]	Andrew Linden:	no, I'd expect that trying to change to current state would just fail
[17:51]	Sindy Tsure:	that would be ok, too
[17:51]	Andrew Linden:	there is already a call for resetting the script right?
[17:51]	Simon Linden:	I think the main criteria on a new version roll is any signficant regression. These, plus some of the back-end issues, made it fail
[17:52]	Sindy Tsure:	though there's no return code from a state change.. hard to feedback that to the script
[17:52]	Andrew Linden:	but that resets the whole thing, not the current state...
[17:53]	Sindy Tsure just wants the wobbly camera fixed.. i seem to notice it more and more lately, probably because i know a fix is coming soon
[17:53]	Arawn Spitteler:	Is it the corner of Oslar and Vine, where SVC-22 really kicks up?
[17:53]	Sindy Tsure:	oslar & vine?
[17:54]	Sindy Tsure:	it's anywhere where there's a full parcel on the edge of a sim
[17:54]	Sindy Tsure:	vehicles should be able to cross into the sim over that parcel but can't
[17:55]	Arawn Spitteler:	I think I've gotten a few vehicles returned to lost and found, by that.
[17:55]	Andrew Linden:	Sindy, I did briefly talk about the SVC-22 issues with Doug Linden when discussing what projects we'd work on in 2009Q1
[17:55]	Sindy Tsure:	oh?
[17:55]	Sindy Tsure mostly just brings it up to torture you.. :)
[17:55]	Andrew Linden:	he brought up the notion that parcel prim accounting might be due for an overhaul
[17:56]	Andrew Linden:	but we weren't actually listing projects... but listing the types of projects that we wanted to try to prioritize
[17:56]	Andrew Linden:	that is, projects that would fix a pile of related bugs that have been bugging us all for a while
[17:57]	Sindy Tsure:	so.. a bucket for 'sim crossing stuff'
[17:57]	Jahar Aabye:	I'd think parcel prim accounting is something you'd want to handle very carefully from a political perspective, after the whole kerfluffle with the OpenSpace sims
[17:57]	Arawn Spitteler:	Open Space might be a good excuse to redo the accounting.
[17:57]	Andrew Linden:	Parcel prim accounting works pretty good, but there are the border crossing problems, and others.
[17:58]	Andrew Linden:	I'm talking about whether the parcel accouting is _correct_ or not.
[17:58]	Jahar Aabye:	ah
[17:58]	Jahar Aabye:	ok
[17:58]	Andrew Linden:	Not what the count limits should be.
[17:58]	Jahar Aabye:	thought you meant changing how it's accounted for
[17:58]	Sindy Tsure:	only if things are being counted wrong!
[17:58]	Jahar Aabye:	I could just see the blog post: "Today we're happy to announce that we're changing how the prims on your parcel will be counted"
[17:58]	Sindy Tsure:	which may (or may not) be what svc-22 is about
[17:58]	Arawn Spitteler:	SVC seems a problem, that Prims wait for their riders, before being flagged as vehicles
[17:59]	Andrew Linden:	actually, some LL devs have kicked around the idea of having some prims count for more than 1...
[17:59]	Sindy Tsure carefully says nothing
[18:00]	Jahar Aabye:	hehehe, like those with an EPS in the 5,000 range
[18:00]	Sindy Tsure:	eps?
[18:00]	Jahar Aabye:	script events per second
[18:00]	Andrew Linden:	for instance... suppose we introduced arbitrary meshes... there is a cost when packing a large pile of such prims in one spot... a higher cost (for rendering, at least) than a similar number of regular extruded prims.
[18:01]	Simon Linden:	There's a huge range in the cost of prims and scripts
[18:01]	Sindy Tsure:	so.. sculpties would coust more?
[18:01]	Sindy Tsure:	*cost
[18:01]	Arawn Spitteler:	So, if we had prims, where we could hollow at any angle, we might start counting anti prims?
[18:01]	Jahar Aabye:	yeah, I tend to focus more on the cost from scripts to sim performance than rendering issues, since that's where most of the impact my products have on the sim comes from
[18:01]	Andrew Linden:	yeah, well the sculpty issue is an argument against that... the complexity of sculpties already counts as one prim
[18:01]	Arawn Spitteler:	Sculpties should be cheap, since they're viewer side.
[18:01]	Sindy Tsure:	not when the sim has to pass out more textures..
[18:02]	Andrew Linden:	and Simon is right.. the complexity of scripted prims have a different meaning on the server...
[18:02]	Andrew Linden:	a heavily scripted box should perhaps count more than a non-scripted vertex-heavy mesh
[18:02]	Andrew Linden:	on the server, anyway
[18:02]	Andrew Linden:	it is a tough system to change/enhance
[18:03]	Sindy Tsure:	does it need to be changed?
[18:03]	Jahar Aabye:	yeah, our stuff is as low-lag as we can make it, but I've seen other guns that can bring a sim to its knees in full auto....especially the ones that use multi-prim bullets and undiscriminated linked messages
[18:03]	Andrew Linden:	the only way we could change it would be to simultaneoulsy expand the overall prim limits
[18:03]	Andrew Linden:	I suspect
[18:03]	Saijanai Kuhn:	the guy who did the original prim code way back when has some blog entries about prims
[18:04]	Arawn Spitteler:	So, 30,000 boxes, to a simulation, or 10,000 interesting objects?
[18:04]	Simon Linden:	It's pretty similar to AV costs ... this group has a pretty wide range in rendering load :)
[18:04]	Jahar Aabye:	I can just see the blog post now: "We're happy to announce that prim limits have been raised....but that bling is gonna cost you now"
[18:04]	Jahar Aabye:	Yeah, I know my ARC score is probably high, even without looking, since I'm holding two alpha-primmed guns
[18:04]	Arawn Spitteler:	Bling is viewer side
[18:04]	Andrew Linden:	I think Saijanai is talking about Avi Bar-Zeeve, the developer who wrote the prim extrusion code?
[18:04]	Saijanai Kuhn:	right
[18:05]	Sindy Tsure:	unless the particles are being chagned a lot, arawn.. then it's a full object update
[18:05]	Simon Linden:	Andrew's the all-time winner in the golf-game of rendering costs
[18:05]	Jahar Aabye:	ah, mine's not as bad as I'd feared, since Falco used sculpties to make these with only 59 prims, as opposed to the usual 150-250
[18:05]	Simon Linden:	Actually Saijanai is 1 as well
[18:05]	Jahar Aabye:	one sec, lemme toss on my MP7s
[18:06]	Andrew Linden:	Well, I've love to talk more but I've got soooooo much work to do. This hour is up and I'm going to have to get back to it.
[18:06]	Sindy Tsure:	cya, andrew!
[18:06]	Simon Linden:	I have to run too ... thanks everyone for coming
[18:06]	Sindy Tsure:	bye, simon!
[18:06]	Saijanai Kuhn:	http://www.realityprime.com/articles/how-sl-primitives-really-work
[18:06]	Sindy Tsure runs off, too.. cyas!
[18:06]	Rex Cronon:	bey everybody
[18:07]	Sindy Tsure ties an empty beer can to arawns tail and goes poof
[18:07]	Simon Linden:	bye
[18:07]	Jahar Aabye:	bye everyone, I guess
[18:07]	Jahar Aabye:	is this the normal time and place for Andrew's office hours?
[18:07]	Andrew Linden:	yes this is the new location, same time
[18:08]	Andrew Linden:	also on Tuesdays (11-12)