User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2009 01 15

Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:

[16:54]	Sindy Tsure:	hi hi, simon
[16:54]	Simon Linden:	Hi Sindy
[16:55]	Teravus Ousley:	Hello Simon
[16:55]	Simon Linden:	Hi Teravus
[16:55]	Teravus Ousley:	Simon broke my tower *cries* :D
[16:56]	Simon Linden:	sorry, did I bump it?
[16:56]	Sindy Tsure:	d'oh
[16:56]	Teravus Ousley:	no worries. ? just trying an experiment.
[16:56]	Sindy Tsure does Help->About SL and sees "Second Life Server 1.25.3.107941"
[16:56]	Sindy Tsure:	w00t!
[16:59]	Simon Linden:	We can start in a few minutes ... Andrew isn't able to come today
[16:59]	Sindy Tsure is finishing off dinner.. i'm in no hurry :)
[17:00]	Wolfhaven Teleportation HUD v3.0 is Ready
[17:00]	Teravus Ousley nods
[17:00]	Kitto Flora:	Hello
[17:00]	Teravus Ousley:	hello
[17:00]	Simon Linden:	Hi Kitto
[17:00]	Simon Linden:	OK, well, let's see....
[17:00]	Sindy Tsure:	heya kitto
[17:01]	Sindy Tsure:	& rex
[17:01]	Rex Cronon:	hi sindy
[17:01]	Rex Cronon:	hi everybody
[17:01]	Simon Linden:	The 1.25 server has started the pilot roll-out. It's on a limited number of regions, including this one
[17:01]	Simon Linden:	I think the plan is to fix a few things we found, then further roll-out next Tuesday
[17:02]	Simon Linden:	There also has been a lot of work lately as our database keeps getting overloaded
[17:02]	Teravus Ousley:	mysql.agni
[17:02]	Teravus Ousley:	?
[17:02]	Kitto Flora:	Yoursql?
[17:03]	Teravus Ousley:	that's the database type.. mySQL
[17:03]	Simon Linden:	There are some queries being changed or cached, plus some work on purging obsolete accounts -- one symptom we've seen is some lookups suddenly getting slow, and that's a known problem with really large tables
[17:03]	Kitto Flora:	Tell us about it :)
[17:03]	Simon Linden:	So we're cleaning the cruft, such as old accounts where no one ever logged in
[17:03]	Sindy Tsure:	obsolete accounts? like premiums that have defaulted?
[17:03]	Teravus Ousley:	good plan
[17:03]	Rex Cronon:	cruft?
[17:04]	Simon Linden:	I don't know the exact criteria about the accounts, but it was choosen very conseratively, such as ones that never answered the email confirmation or never logged in
[17:04]	Kitto Flora:	db preeners! What a concept :)
[17:04]	Simon Linden:	These are being backed up anyway
[17:04]	Sindy Tsure has been eyeing two 512m2 parcels on her borders that she is convinced havne't logged in in over a year... support says they're still active, tho :\
[17:04]	Teravus Ousley suspects Rex knows what the word cruft means..
[17:05]	Simon Linden:	These are user accounts, not land info
[17:05]	Kitto Flora:	Sindey: What? They are being payed for for a year and the owner is... gone?
[17:05]	Sindy Tsure:	the deal usually is that if the owner doesn't show up in search, you can do a support ticket to get the land reassigned or auctioned
[17:05]	Sindy Tsure:	dunno, kitto
[17:06]	Teravus Ousley so far.. has heard that parcels, and account info are stored in mysql.agni
[17:06]	Sindy Tsure digresses..
[17:06]	Simon Linden:	There are also a few queries that we're going to move to the 'slave' databases or cached information, such as the fallback locations when you log in and don't end up at the destination
[17:06]	Rex Cronon:	are inventory items part of this "craft"?
[17:06]	Rex Cronon:	cruft*
[17:07]	Simon Linden:	So anyway, the main focus is making the system healthier. We're seeing great usage numbers, but it's pushing it past the limits
[17:07]	Simon Linden:	Andrew's been working on that for most of this week
[17:07]	Simon Linden:	I did a bit of work on texture downloading, and had a breakthrough today
[17:07]	Teravus Ousley:	it's hard stuff when you have as many simulators and users as Agni does ?
[17:07]	Sindy Tsure:	yay! hot topic there, simon!
[17:08]	Kitto Flora:	over 80,000 last sunday
[17:08]	Simon Linden:	It still needs testing, but should make the downloads of the higher rez images much faster ... my test showed it 4x faster, so I'm pretty hopeful about it
[17:08]	Sindy Tsure:	wow!
[17:08]	Teravus Ousley:	cool
[17:08]	Simon Linden:	Turns out to be a viewer bug ... it's not asking for data nearly as fast as it should be
[17:08]	Sindy Tsure:	is this the problem it was having where it was re-reading off the disk? er.. or something like htat
[17:09]	Sindy Tsure:	hi arawn
[17:09]	Simon Linden:	No, that's a different one ... still a problem, but in this case, the viewer was waiting too long to send the requests for higher resolution images
[17:09]	Teravus Ousley recently wrote up a flow chart for a proposal on image management on OpenSimulator: http://opensimulator.org/images/2/2e/Image_req_process_flow_char.jpg
[17:10]	Arawn Spitteler:	Hi, Sindy, Kitto, Rex, Teravus, Simon, Arawn, and the rest
[17:10]	Simon Linden:	Hi Arawn
[17:10]	Sindy Tsure:	because they were higher resolution?
[17:10]	Teravus Ousley:	Hello Arawn ?
[17:10]	Simon Linden:	No, it was a simple code problem ... it was sending the wrong number to the simulator, off by one
[17:10]	Sindy Tsure:	d'oh
[17:11]	Simon Linden:	major d'oh
[17:11]	Kitto Flora:	Hence the last frame 'never' loaded?
[17:11]	Rex Cronon:	hi arawn
[17:11]	Teravus Ousley:	Is this the layer offset bug that eddie stryker found? or has that been fixed?
[17:11]	Simon Linden:	It would eventually get there, but there was a lot of extra delays introduced as the viewer waited to send info
[17:11]	Rex Cronon:	.
[17:11]	Simon Linden:	I'm not familiar with that one
[17:12]	Kitto Flora:	Sounds like the ting :)
[17:12]	Teravus Ousley:	let me see if I can pull up the jira
[17:12]	Kitto Flora:	Someone posted that they found a bug that 'count was off by 1'
[17:12]	Simon Linden:	It's a bit of info called the 'discard level'
[17:12]	Arawn Spitteler:	layer offset?
[17:12]	Simon Linden:	which is really a number meaning the quality of the image
[17:12]	Simon Linden:	0 is full rez, 1 is half, 2 is 1/4, etc
[17:13]	Kitto Flora:	Well goody!
[17:13]	Teravus Ousley:	there was a bug where incorrect byte offsets for the discard levels was sent.
[17:13]	Sindy Tsure:	so.. you're the guy we come to for all UI problems now, simon??
[17:13]	Kitto Flora:	We can expect less fuzzzies ... in 6 months or so?
[17:13]	Sindy Tsure posts that to the forums, "IM simon if you have ui problems!"
[17:14]	Arawn Spitteler:	Poor Simon, United Illuminating is our electric company
[17:14]	Sindy Tsure:	hi morgaine
[17:14]	Kitto Flora:	I found a strange thing this morning - I found a mainland sim where it seems that Linear Motor is not working
[17:14]	Simon Linden:	brb...
[17:14]	Kitto Flora:	Other stuf works, and all the settings look good
[17:14]	Rex Cronon:	if u need a new button u should IM Simon:)
[17:14]	Kitto Flora:	But vehicle dont move.
[17:14]	Morgaine Dinova:	Evening :-)
[17:14]	Sindy Tsure:	you tried it in multiple places? seeing a bunch of reports of ghosted prims lately..
[17:14]	Rex Cronon:	hii
[17:15]	Kitto Flora:	Yes
[17:15]	Kitto Flora:	Its where Route 8 road runs thru simm
[17:15]	Kitto Flora:	Tried entering from both ends
[17:15]	Kitto Flora:	dragging vehicle around
[17:15]	Simon Linden:	hmm, did you check to see if that sim was updated to 1.25?
[17:15]	Kitto Flora:	In that sim - it drifts to a standstill
[17:15]	Kitto Flora:	Its was still on 1.24
[17:16]	Simon Linden:	Odd, I wonder what changed. It was working there before?
[17:16]	Kitto Flora:	Dont know
[17:16]	Kitto Flora:	I was driving rout 8 in trolley - miles and miles
[17:16]	Arawn Spitteler posted a Ghosted Perm Jira https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3660 speaking of ghostings.
[17:16]	Kitto Flora:	many sims
[17:16]	Teravus Ousley:	Found it : http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3146 <-- It's assigned to you simon ?
[17:16]	Kitto Flora:	FOund one wim with 11,000 scripsts in it
[17:16]	Kitto Flora:	one sim
[17:17]	Simon Linden:	That's a different bug, Teravus, but it's fixed and in the pipeline to be shipped.
[17:17]	Teravus Ousley:	awesome
[17:17]	Simon Linden:	I think it will get into 1.26
[17:18]	Simon Linden:	ok, well, that's it for my news. Does anyone have questions or topics to discuss?
[17:18]	Kitto Flora:	Nothing else new here
[17:19]	Simon Linden:	FWIW Kitto, we've seen some other region-edge issues lately so there's more pressure to look at the bugs causing your lost trains. The database problems have been the immediate crisis, however
[17:19]	Arawn Spitteler:	The Ghosted Perms I saw, were so different from the Ghosted Perms Kitto saw, that it's not likely they're the same. Anyway they could connect, will narrow down the bug hunt.
[17:20]	Morgaine Dinova:	SVC-3146 is going to singlehandedly fix 4 years of moans, nice :-)
[17:20]	Sindy Tsure:	oops.. ignore the hand
[17:20]	Arawn Spitteler:	hand
[17:20]	Teravus Ousley:	well, I suspect that connect, run query, disconnect.. is faster then using a HTTP service
[17:20]	Arawn Spitteler:	Is that like Sheep?
[17:20]	Sindy Tsure:	sorry, arawn - detached
[17:20]	Sindy Tsure:	yep
[17:21]	Kitto Flora:	Bigger problem with sim crossing is still the lag
[17:21]	Kitto Flora:	Very difficult to script around
[17:21]	Sindy Tsure:	and svc-22 (hi andrew!)
[17:21]	Arawn Spitteler:	Hi, Andrew.
[17:21]	Kitto Flora sees no Andrew
[17:21]	Arawn Spitteler:	If we simply knew when we were leaving a sim, we could shut down physics, until the changed event
[17:21]	Rex Cronon:	i see no andrew
[17:21]	Sindy Tsure was doing a transcript Hi..
[17:22]	Simon Linden doesn't see him either
[17:22]	Teravus Ousley:	heh, don't think andrew made it today. or .. I have a viewer bug ?
[17:22]	Simon Linden:	Ghost AVs :)
[17:22]	Arawn Spitteler just took Sindy's word for it: Maybe he's in god mode?
[17:22]	Sindy Tsure:	no.. i was saying howdy via the transcript, which he may go thru later..
[17:22]	Teravus Ousley:	does god mode have an 'invisible' mode?
[17:23]	Arawn Spitteler whispers: Lindens are said to have strange powers
[17:23]	Simon Linden:	Even if god mode we can't hide. We don't have invisibility cloaks :(
[17:23]	Sindy Tsure tries to hassle him every week about svc-22
[17:23]	Sindy Tsure:	so, when i mentioned that, i had to say hi
[17:23]	Simon Linden:	Send him an IM about it, he'll get it
[17:23]	Sindy Tsure would rather keep her account, ty
[17:23]	Simon Linden:	I'll also be sending the transcript for posting on the blog/web
[17:24]	Teravus Ousley:	any recent news about estate governance?.. like the e-mail address in the estate dialog..
[17:24]	Morgaine Dinova:	Is it a known bug that if you set the camera pivot on an object in an adjacent sim, and then zoom towards it, that when the eye crosses the sim boundary the camera loses its pivot and you end up looking at the sky?
[17:24]	Sindy Tsure:	there was a question in the forums i was gonna ask about..
[17:24]	Sindy Tsure goes 'oops' and gets in line
[17:24]	Simon Linden:	That came up recently in a conversation at lunch. I don't think there's been much progress or work there
[17:24]	Teravus Ousley:	k
[17:24]	Arawn Spitteler:	Is there a Jira?
[17:25]	Simon Linden:	Morgaine - I haven't heard of that one, but it sounds more like a viewer issue so I may have just missed it
[17:25]	Morgaine Dinova:	kk. I should have brought it up a few hours ago at Rob's, forgot.
[17:26]	Simon Linden:	The camera is one of those parts that uses both the viewer and simulator, so the problem could be in either place
[17:26]	Simon Linden:	The sim is used to figure out if there are objects obstructing the camera from the avatar. I don'
[17:27]	Simon Linden:	... don't know exactly what happens if you're focused on an object
[17:27]	Arawn Spitteler:	Are we still getting the throb when something's behind you, bug? I think I was getting that earlier.
[17:27]	Sindy Tsure pulls out her vwr-6714 repro object and goes 'yay!!'
[17:27]	Sindy Tsure:	really fixed!
[17:27]	Simon Linden:	I know Andrew worked on that a while ago... don't know where the code is
[17:27]	Rex Cronon:	testing
[17:27]	Teravus Ousley:	?
[17:28]	Kitto Flora:	I noticed to day in the 1.25 sims the camera yo-yo is either gone, ora lot more rare
[17:28]	Sindy Tsure:	vrw-6714!
[17:28]	Teravus Ousley:	raycast from the head to the physics proxy? ?
[17:28]	Simon Linden:	Sounds like the fix went into 1.25, so that's good news
[17:28]	Teravus Ousley:	rather.. from the head to the camera.. and collide with physics proxies along the way.
[17:28]	Simon Linden:	yes, it's a raycast to see if there are obstructions
[17:29]	Sindy Tsure:	yepyep.. i remember andrew telling me he fixed that and i was all excited.. this was back in july :)
[17:29]	Sindy Tsure:	1.25 has been a long time coming!
[17:29]	Sindy Tsure isn't complaining, tho
[17:29]	Kitto Flora:	But is it really here this time?
[17:30]	Sindy Tsure:	i plan to just move in here, kitto.. it's fixed here..
[17:30]	Simon Linden:	Our merge and release process has been frustrating, but then so has our inability to get a good version out. Testing is really tough - we just can't replicate all the use cases and loads of the full grid
[17:30]	Teravus Ousley:	right.. often the first thing you notice is things failing live ?
[17:30]	Sindy Tsure:	progress has been made tho, simon.. what you have now is way better than the old 'shutdown wednesday's
[17:30]	Teravus Ousley:	usually it's the 'intensive' service first.
[17:31]	Sindy Tsure:	...for the deploy part of it, anyway
[17:31]	Simon Linden:	Very true, and the staged roll-outs are definitely helping
[17:31]	Arawn Spitteler:	How about, a Questinable Sim Welcome Area?
[17:31]	Morgaine Dinova:	It's all good, it's an evolving world, and people need to live with that.
[17:31]	Simon Linden:	I think we need to make better use of the beta grid, or perhaps put some regions on development versions for more real-virtual-life testing
[17:32]	Sindy Tsure:	i think the beta grid won't get too much more traffic unless you figure out a way to tp there from this grid..
[17:32]	Simon Linden:	Agreed ... or we give out some free land there
[17:32]	Sindy Tsure:	if you could do that it'd be a lot easier, tho it's not that hard now..
[17:32]	Teravus Ousley:	.. or close Agni ?
[17:32]	Sindy Tsure:	heh
[17:32]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hahaha
[17:33]	Arawn Spitteler thinks a TP Capable Viewer, would be useful: Could I get some free land?
[17:33]	Kitto Flora:	The Beta Grid setup is just a pain to use. Serious devs just are not going to bother working there, the way it is
[17:33]	Morgaine Dinova:	That would do ti
[17:33]	Simon Linden:	The problem with test code is content loss - nobody wants some new bug to make their expensive no-copy stuff go up in smoke
[17:33]	Rex Cronon:	can we transfer lindes from beta to main:)
[17:34]	Rex Cronon:	if that were true , lots of people would used it
[17:34]	Arawn Spitteler:	Yes, but it's called Wire Fraud
[17:34]	Kitto Flora:	Hence a decent Beta Grid setup would be useful.
[17:35]	Simon Linden:	I don't think we can ever get to the point where L$ or inventory could flow back from the beta grid to the full grid, as the risk of loss or mixup would be too great.
[17:35]	Simon Linden:	We really need someone in our program management to take it on as a project
[17:35]	Morgaine Dinova:	I know! Provide camping fees there, that'll bring them in. And assign the few L$ directly from LL money into main grid coffers, not fraud, a payment to testers ;-)))
[17:36]	Arawn Spitteler:	That could be done, with HTTP_Server
[17:36]	Sindy Tsure can see Zee Linden having fits from here..
[17:36]	Rex Cronon:	btw, how do u get free lindens on beta?
[17:36]	Simon Linden:	yeah, a litlte free land or payment would get people in there, but might drive the business guys nuts :)
[17:36]	Kitto Flora:	Payment for the testing work there is secondary. The environment is the prim thing. Its just bad for the complexity of stuff to be tested these days
[17:36]	Sindy Tsure:	they just appear, rex.. everybody gets L$5k or so
[17:36]	Arawn Spitteler:	I can't get to the Sims that use HTTP_In, presently
[17:37]	Teravus Ousley:	something like.. you start out with 5k.. but your agni balance as of when they snapshotted it ends up there.
[17:37]	Simon Linden:	Are they on the beta grid?
[17:37]	Sindy Tsure:	the L$5k? yep
[17:37]	Sindy Tsure:	oh.. http.. never mind
[17:37]	Rex Cronon:	what if u need like 100k?
[17:38]	Teravus Ousley:	get it on Agni.. then the next snapshot will have it ?
[17:38]	Sindy Tsure:	got some starax stuff for sale there?
[17:38]	Morgaine Dinova:	Some things cost that much?
[17:38]	Sindy Tsure:	oh yes
[17:38]	Teravus Ousley:	convince several people to give you money on the beta grid?
[17:38]	Simon Linden:	Well, you could find a Linden and plead your case for what you'd be testing. I don't know what our policy is on that, however, so I'm just guessing here
[17:39]	Rex Cronon:	so easy to get 100k here. lol
[17:39]	Sindy Tsure got a note asking if i'd like to buy a bunch of starax pieces, morgaine.. only L$300k for the collection..
[17:39]	Kitto Flora:	Find a linden on Beta? You jest?
[17:39]	Teravus Ousley:	maybe could implement a policy.. kill 5 friendships and get 100k beta grid cash? ?
[17:39]	Morgaine Dinova:	Cripes
[17:39]	Sindy Tsure:	lol@teravus
[17:39]	Teravus Ousley:	(sorry, reference to the facebook/burger king thing)
[17:39]	Simon Linden:	Hey, I'm clueless about it ... I haven't been there since Havok4, as the stuff I'm working on isn't being tested there
[17:40]	Kitto Flora:	QED Simon. Same for us too...
[17:40]	Simon Linden:	Yeah, that was a really weird marketing campaign.
[17:40]	Rex Cronon:	i don't need it. it was a hypotetical question:)
[17:40]	Morgaine Dinova:	That's a hilarious idea for fixing group IM. Pay people for reducing their groups below 25/25 ;-))))
[17:40]	Sindy Tsure saw a question on the forums... about llRezObject silently failing..
[17:41]	Kitto Flora:	Maybe some day, someone who counts will ge ta clue about Beta Testing. Then if they *ask* maybe things will get better.
[17:41]	Simon Linden:	Was it reproducable?
[17:41]	Sindy Tsure:	http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=302541 . stuff is definitely in the contents, stats/pending downloads is 0, object_rez event says the object rezzed but the eky doesn't seem valid
[17:42]	Sindy Tsure:	no shouty gray goo fence messages
[17:42]	Teravus Ousley:	any interesting news on sculpty physics proxies?
[17:42]	Sindy Tsure:	not on demand, simon.. think it's something that just seems to start happening every few hours or so
[17:42]	Sindy Tsure:	"I'm seeing what looks like a new problem with llRezObject(), used by MLPV2. After a while, it starts failing. Resetting the script seems to make it start working again (usually, but not always!)
	I'm absolutely sure I'm actually calling the function, with correct args. I put debug chats right before the call to print the argumens, and the chat appears, but no object appears.
	It's failing silently, without logging a script error.
[17:43]	Simon Linden:	There is a mechanism in the simulator to mark objects as 'toxic' if they cause problems when rezzed. Usually this is some massive thing that takes more than 15 seconds (a full sim stall)
[17:43]	Simon Linden:	In that case, it has to wait 2 minutes before the sim will try again
[17:44]	Sindy Tsure:	it's MLP.. basically poseball management.. anything it rezzes should be pretty tame
[17:44]	Simon Linden:	It's an anti-griefer check
[17:44]	Simon Linden:	yeah, that should only kick in during edge cases
[17:44]	Sindy Tsure:	is there any user notificiation when the toxic stuff fires?
[17:45]	Kitto Flora:	Well its a known effect that if the Asset Server is on the Blink, then rezzing from inv gets way slow. Or fails all together.
[17:45]	Sindy Tsure:	that usually causes stats/pending downloads to go up, though
[17:45]	Sindy Tsure:	somebody asked and he said that was at 0
[17:45]	Simon Linden:	I think you should get a script error
[17:46]	Kitto Flora:	Quck check is to find a vanilla 'Object' in your Inv and try rez it on another object. If it dont appear inside 5 secs - Asset server problem. Hourglass is a clue.
[17:46]	Sindy Tsure thinks that was asked too.. he said rezzing stuff from inventory worked when the problem was happening
[17:46]	Sindy Tsure:	this is not a 1.25 sim, bt
[17:46]	Sindy Tsure:	w
[17:46]	Kitto Flora:	Script from Inv : likely nothing to deal with mesages, not of the kind that Av rezzing from Inv gets
[17:47]	Simon Linden:	That's a tough one ... can't tell much without looking at logs or being able to reproduce it. It may be a bug, or a transient problem with our database or network, something like that
[17:48]	Kitto Flora:	Is the Asset Server all one big thing? Or are there multiple running in parallel?
[17:48]	Sindy Tsure:	so.. support ticket with the date/time/sim asking for somebody to check the logs would be the next move?
[17:48]	Arawn Spitteler:	I think that's the best hypothesis, the Asset Servers, but the Object_Rezzed Firing, would be a bug.
[17:49]	Sindy Tsure was surprised to hear that part, arawn..
[17:49]	Simon Linden:	yes, knowing exactly where and when, and maybe with object names would help
[17:49]	Sindy Tsure:	ok.. i'll post that.. unless you want to venture into the forums, simon :)
[17:50]	Sindy Tsure knows LL loves the forums!
[17:50]	Simon Linden:	ah, no thanks ... I should look more than I have ... maybe someday :)
[17:50]	Arawn Spitteler wonders where he put that Kevlar Linden Suit...
[17:50]	Sindy Tsure:	heh
[17:50]	Sindy Tsure:	can i quote this line there? [17:47] Simon Linden: That's a tough one ... can't tell much without looking at logs or being able to reproduce it. It may be a bug, or a transient problem with our database or network, something like that
[17:51]	Sindy Tsure:	or maybe leave your name out, if you'd like.. no worries..
[17:51]	Simon Linden:	sure, that's fine
[17:51]	Sindy Tsure:	k.. ty
[17:51]	Arawn Spitteler:	Refer to Transcript?
[17:52]	Sindy Tsure:	i usually say that arawn but having at least one line to quote, especially one that sums it up, is even better..
[17:52]	Sindy Tsure will also make sure to let people know that Simon is now the UI guy..
[17:53]	Teravus Ousley:	?
[17:53]	Arawn Spitteler wonders if he's the go to guy, for SCripted Prim Torture...
[17:53]	Sindy Tsure hears that won't be allowed any more, once obama gets in..
[17:53]	Sindy Tsure ducks!
[17:54]	Arawn Spitteler is horrified, that Barak Hussein won't allow the Scripted Primj Torture of Ducks.
[17:54]	Sindy Tsure:	or sheep!
[17:55]	Teravus Ousley wonders if Simon is also responsible for the mailglue
[17:55]	Teravus Ousley:	?
[17:55]	Simon Linden:	no, I'm not but I know the person who is
[17:55]	Kitto Flora is still waiting for 'Obamalama bamalama bamalama ding-dong song
[17:55]	Arawn Spitteler:	Something that woul be handy, for Sim Crossings, would be Bounding_Box_Exit, with Sims as default, since the new sim has to receive, befoe changed is called. Would it be assumed, that a perfect world doesn't require that?
[17:55]	Teravus Ousley:	I sent an error report gulliver's way yesterday.
[17:55]	Teravus Ousley:	.. chatty error messages on SQL connect failure
[17:56]	Teravus Ousley:	chatty.. meaning.. giving too much info ?
[17:56]	Simon Linden:	Hmm .. can you explain more Arawn?
[17:57]	Arawn Spitteler:	Terse, Chatty, Comic Relief Modes?
[17:57]	Arawn Spitteler:	I think it would be a useful function, to alert the script, when the prim exits a given space, but it would be very handy, for turning off Physics, when the sim is exited.
[17:58]	Kitto Flora:	changed() ... CHANGED_REGION does that
[17:58]	Simon Linden:	ah, I see
[17:58]	Sindy Tsure:	so you would make an lsl call and define a couple vectors and the script would callback when you left that box?
[17:59]	Arawn Spitteler:	Potential problem is that Changed might be queued, before bounding_box_exit is, but rare.
[17:59]	Sindy Tsure:	i think i might vote for that.. do up a jira..
[17:59]	Arawn Spitteler:	Yeah,l it would need two vectors, if changed from the default.
[18:00]	Kitto Flora:	What does it do ? This requested thing...
[18:00]	Sindy Tsure:	though custom damping on llMoveToTarget would be something i'd like more..
[18:00]	Arawn Spitteler:	I wonder how to check, if I've already jiraed it.
[18:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	Oh, that reminds me of a recent problem in the SL Live Music community. Some scammers are putting invisible objects in front of musician's tip jars, and unattentive people are paying the wrong person. Controlling that would seem to be related to Arawn's idea too.
[18:01]	Simon Linden:	I did write up a proposal for an improved version of llMoveToTarget ... not sure if or when we'll get to it, but I'm hoping to get an intern hired and put them on it as their project
[18:01]	Sindy Tsure:	absolutely AR the crap outta them, morgaine..
[18:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	Aye
[18:01]	Kitto Flora:	Thats an old bug, long supported by LL... and I see not connection
[18:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	It's beyond the pale
[18:01]	Rex Cronon:	that is really not a new problem morgaine
[18:02]	Morgaine Dinova:	Righto. The music community seems to think it's new.
[18:02]	Sindy Tsure:	no.. sadly not new :(
[18:02]	Kitto Flora:	alpha-prim click intecept is an ancient pita
[18:02]	Simon Linden:	Can you shut off build perms? Maybe some carefully laid out parcels with restrictions might help. In any case, that's an ugly scam
[18:02]	Rex Cronon:	it might be new to the music community
[18:03]	Simon Linden:	Well, the hour is up ... any last questions?
[18:03]	Sindy Tsure thinks..
[18:03]	Sindy Tsure:	er.. cold enough yet?
[18:03]	Sindy Tsure thinks that question can be ignored
[18:03]	Teravus Ousley:	heh
[18:03]	Kitto Flora:	High 60s this PM :)
[18:03]	Simon Linden:	Nice and sunny today ... we need rain badly
[18:03]	Sindy Tsure now hates kitto
[18:03]	Teravus Ousley:	stay worm ?
[18:03]	Teravus Ousley:	warm
[18:04]	Kitto Flora:	Cal ee fawn ee a!
[18:04]	Sindy Tsure:	my car said 3f on the way home from work.. below 0f tonight and most of tomorrow :(
[18:04]	Simon Linden:	I have to run ... thanks everyone for coming
[18:04]	Sindy Tsure:	so.. no.. don't really have any last questions.. :)
[18:04]	Teravus Ousley:	take care