User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2009 01 20

Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:

[11:00]	neil1234 Mimulus:	yo
[11:02]	MarkByron Falta:	yeah, highly undesired features
[11:02]	Kitto Flora:	Hi Andrew
[11:02]	MarkByron Falta:	wb Greg
[11:02]	Gregory Maurer:	hey
[11:02]	Gregory Maurer:	sweep
[11:02]	Simon Linden:	hmm, that looks ugly. I wonder how they're getting out-of-sync
[11:03]	Kitto Flora:	As for sit targets and such.. I got a request to 'fix' the animation problems for diff.size avatars
[11:03]	Arawn Spitteler:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3660
[11:03]	Andrew Linden:	grr.. my kkeyboardis acti ng up
[11:03]	Arawn Spitteler:	I think it would be easier, if we could detect the Agent Target
[11:03]	Andrew Linden:	ok that is better.
[11:03]	Simon Linden:	Kitto - basically the problem is one animation doesn't look right on all avatars, or something else?
[11:04]	Andrew Linden:	hello everyone
[11:04]	Gregory Maurer:	Hello
[11:04]	MarkByron Falta:	i'll just on my invincible volume detect = true hoverpad
[11:04]	Arawn Spitteler:	How do we determine the dimensions of an avie, once sitting?
[11:04]	Kitto Flora:	Whats really wrong is that the avatar location ref point is the hips. It ought to be a nominal ground point.
[11:05]	Gregory Maurer:	/offset
[11:05]	Kitto Flora:	Hips are a variable point above groud - depends on Av size, and current pose
[11:05]	MarkByron Falta:	i feel so safe on this - invincible from the linden damage system
[11:05]	Andrew Linden:	yes, a ground point reference would help with some stuff
[11:05]	Simon Linden:	hmm, right, or give you the information on the ground vs. hip positioning so it could be calculated and adjusted
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	but the skeleton origin is the hips, which drove that as the avatar reference point in the design
[11:06]	Kitto Flora:	Theres nothing on the user side that allows for easy correction.
[11:06]	Kitto Flora:	Its a fundimental system flaw
[11:06]	MarkByron Falta:	yeah, have to have mod rights
[11:06]	Simon Linden:	right, and people-like AVs tend to sit on their butt, so it makes sense. Just falls apart with radical AVs
[11:06]	Object: Hello, Avatar!
[11:06]	Kitto Flora:	Probably inherited from biovision
[11:06]	MarkByron Falta:	i'm radical av?
[11:07]	Arawn Spitteler:	Rad is in
[11:07]	Gregory Maurer:	this can't be right
[11:07]	Gregory Maurer:	the origin of my bounding box can't be that far off
[11:07]	Simon Linden:	well, size-wise you're small. The person probably folded up the AV mesh - have you ever taken it apart?
[11:08]	Arawn Spitteler wonders what this is, that can't be right
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	ok, so what to talk about? Do we have any announcements Simon?
[11:08]	Morgaine Dinova:	His bounding box
[11:08]	Simon Linden:	I can dig up the 1.25 schedule, 1 sec...
[11:09]	Morgaine Dinova:	I think perhaps people need control over their own bounding boxes, within limits.
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	1.25 is closer than it has ever been! What that means exactly is not clear.
[11:09]	Morgaine Dinova:	Haha :-)
[11:09]	Object: Hello, Avatar!
[11:09]	MarkByron Falta:	they still have pilot going?
[11:09]	Kitto Flora:	No bad bugs shown up?
[11:10]	Kitto Flora:	I have ridden the train thru many 1.25 sims, not noticed any diff
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	1.25 is still deployed as a pilot to some number of regions... 500 or so I would guess
[11:10]	Kitto Flora:	Cept maybe camear bounce
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	including this one
[11:10]	Gregory Maurer:	is there a reason why my bounding box is so weird?
[11:10]	Kitto Flora:	Must be more like a few thousand
[11:10]	Morgaine Dinova:	Have the problems over the weekend and yesterday not been related to 1.25 then? People have been assuming they were.
[11:10]	Rex Cronon:	hello everybody
[11:10]	Kitto Flora:	I run into quite a few on Northern
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	gregory, what bounding box? Do you mean your avatar collision shape?
[11:11]	Simon Linden:	Right ... looks like an update of the pilot regions and back-end stuff will be done this week
[11:11]	Gregory Maurer:	llGetBoundingBox
[11:11]	Gregory Maurer:	It could be a problem with rotations
[11:11]	MarkByron Falta:	Darling Brody had reported problems with 1.25 in reference to her teleport systems and such
[11:11]	Simon Linden:	If all looks well, next week we'll do the half-rolls to complete it
[11:11]	Gregory Maurer:	weird
[11:11]	Gregory Maurer:	its fixed now
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	hrm... what does that do exactly, I wonder...
[11:11]	Gregory Maurer:	aha
[11:11]	Andrew Linden goes to look at the code
[11:11]	Gregory Maurer:	has to do with being north or south of the prim I'm sitting on
[11:12]	Simon Linden:	But database issues have priority these days
[11:12]	Kitto Flora:	Weekend problems are sheer volume .. number of Avs in world. 80,525 2 weeks back, would have hit 80k this sunday but for the problems/restrictions
[11:12]	Morgaine Dinova:	Database non-scalability?
[11:13]	Simon Linden:	We hit that yesterday with more problems.
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	yes Morgaine. The database is not scaling well at the moment
[11:13]	Gregory Maurer:	I read something about using web services to make it more scalable
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	the query rate is high, and we also have some expensive queries that we need to optimize.
[11:14]	Simon Linden:	We have a combination of web services and direct connections ... it's a big system
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	The web services project is still in progress, but a big part of the effort was abandoned. The implementation was not living up to the design, or something.
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	I was busy with other stuff at the time so i didn't pay attention to the details.
[11:14]	Morgaine Dinova:	kk. I assume you've got front end replication for it, so that the expanding query rate can be met by adding more replicas in front, with write-through to the back end.
[11:14]	Simon Linden:	There is a fair amount of work focused on the database ... I fixed up one query yesterday, for example
[11:14]	Kitto Flora:	Any news on missing Railcars?
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	No Kitto, I haven't been able to dig into that. I got sidetracked by database issues.
[11:15]	Kitto Flora:	OK
[11:15]	Simon Linden:	No, but I want to look at region handoffs and crossing sometime.
[11:15]	Gregory Maurer:	Another question, what are plans for non-physical movement such as posJump
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	No plans right now that I know of Gregory. What is posJump?
[11:15]	Arawn Spitteler:	That would be a Pseudomotion
[11:16]	Gregory Maurer:	one second
[11:16]	Gregory Maurer:	llSetPrimitiveParams([PRIM_POSITION, <1.304382E+19, 1.304382E+19, 0.0>, PRIM_POSITION, target_pos]);
[11:16]	Gregory Maurer:	Its a function which is basically an infinite range llSetPos
[11:16]	Arawn Spitteler:	Oh, llSetPos? I don't think an avie can
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	Ah that trick. I think we have a fix for that...
[11:16]	Simon Linden:	ah, giving big ugly numbers that might overflow or something
[11:16]	Gregory Maurer:	Well is there any reason to fix it
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	it may be in 1.26... I can't remember where that fix went in
[11:17]	Gregory Maurer:	It is more efficient than warpPos
[11:17]	Arawn Spitteler'll have to try it
[11:18]	Object: Hello, Avatar!
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	well, as a workaround it is a bug. Rather than leave that misfeature we would expand the distance to which an object can pop its position... if we were to change the limits on that.
[11:18]	MarkByron Falta:	how about the old sit on volume detect = true prim and be immune to Linden damage trick (SVC-1253)?
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	That is also a bug that we intend to fix.
[11:18]	MarkByron Falta:	great
[11:19]	Andrew Linden:	Simon did you summarize the 1.25 schedule as it is currently known?
[11:19]	Gregory Maurer:	llOwnerSay( (string)llVecDist( <1.304382E+19, 1.304382E+19, 0.0> , llGetPos() ) ); = [11:19] Object: Infinity
[11:19]	Andrew Linden reads back.
[11:19]	Simon Linden:	I just read an email, and it's changed
[11:19]	Simon Linden:	Centrals and pilot region update tomorrow
[11:19]	Simon Linden:	1st half of the roll Thursday, 2nd on Friday
[11:19]	Gregory Maurer:	'p
[11:20]	Simon Linden:	It has some database fixes we'd like to get out
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	ah ok. So we currently have what we call the "pilot" deploy
[11:20]	Kitto Flora:	All sims by end of Friday?
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	which is 500 regions or so, currently running 1.25
[11:20]	Simon Linden:	Yes, that will get updated tomorrow, hopefully all sims by Friday
[11:20]	MarkByron Falta:	could you run the pilot on a linden damage sandbox ?
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	so we're no going to expand the 1.25 deploy, but will update the pilot regions to a new version, and wtch that one.
[11:20]	MarkByron Falta:	like rausch, red or blue?
[11:20]	Saijanai Kuhn:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/AW_Groupies/Chat_Logs/AWGroupies-2009-01-20
[11:21]	MarkByron Falta:	be nice to test 1.25 on a damage sim
[11:21]	Simon Linden:	MarkByron - I'll pass that request on to the people who do deployments
[11:21]	MarkByron Falta:	maybe for next time than
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	MarkByron, dunno how easy it is to modify the pilot list.
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	MarkByron, if you were able to reach the right person you might be able to get a region added, or removed.
[11:21]	Arawn Spitteler:	Isn't there a Weapons Sandbox, near Crash Me?
[11:21]	MarkByron Falta:	it's not damage enabled
[11:21]	MarkByron Falta:	that's weapons testing
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	Not sure who exactly would be on the right person list...
[11:21]	Gregory Maurer:	Aren't all sandboxes automatically rolled?
[11:22]	MarkByron Falta:	i've tested damage on the beta grid - hopefully it's the same
[11:22]	Andrew Linden:	Prospero Linden is in charge of the deploy, but there are others who help coordinate, and he wouldn't necessarily be the contact guy for picking up requests.
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	He may know what the policy is, and also the proper path for such requests.
[11:23]	Simon Linden:	Hmm, I just randomly landed on a beta region and it's 1.22
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	I don't think all Sandboxen are automatically included in the pilot deploys.
[11:23]	MarkByron Falta:	well rausch is on 1.25 server in beta grid
[11:24]	Andrew Linden:	1.22 simon?
[11:24]	MarkByron Falta:	maybe you can find H1 region too??
[11:24]	Simon Linden:	doh, wrong version number. It is 1.25
[11:24]	Simon Linden:	1.25.4.108320
[11:24]	MarkByron Falta:	sounds right
[11:25]	Simon Linden:	So the beta grid is good if you want to test stuff on the new sims
[11:25]	Arawn Spitteler:	Viewer should be 1.22.5
[11:25]	Kitto Flora:	But what sims are there?
[11:25]	Simon Linden:	That I don't know
[11:25]	Kitto Flora:	And what are the prim limits
[11:26]	Kitto Flora:	Anywas, as far as I can see, the 1.25 changes dont affect vehicles.
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	The beta grid (aditi) has 117 regions that are "up". The primlimits probably span the possible values.
[11:27]	Arawn Spitteler:	HTTP In Sandboxes seem to be on 1.26, and half are borked
[11:27]	Simon Linden:	Probably correct. I don't think there's been been much or any work in physics or vehicles
[11:27]	Andrew Linden:	?? Arwan we haven't even branched 1.26 yet.
[11:27]	Arawn Spitteler:	You are at 255745.5, 254880.8, 21.4 in Http In Sandbox 3 located at sim3013.aditi.lindenlab.com (8.2.33.225:12035)
	Http In 1.26.0.107210
[11:28]	Gregory Maurer:	I noticed that vehicles seem to reflect off of objects even if they are phantom
[11:28]	Arawn Spitteler:	The oher two fail to grant capabilities
[11:28]	Simon Linden:	That branch may have bumped the version number
[11:28]	Andrew Linden:	hrm... ok, so someone has labeled those regions as 1.26
[11:28]	Kitto Flora:	Only od things I have are the Railcars vanishing, one sim that has (had?) no linear motor function, and a strangeness with collisions.
[11:28]	Andrew Linden:	Right, they must already be inflating the version number
[11:29]	Arawn Spitteler:	So, tha's a 1.26.wannabe?
[11:29]	Andrew Linden:	I was trying to dig into a strange collision bug right before this meeting. In a 1.25 region.
[11:29]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hehe
[11:29]	Andrew Linden:	Dunno if it is a common problem yet or not.
[11:29]	Simon Linden:	Probably so you can write a script to detect if it can use the new HTTP in functionality
[11:29]	Andrew Linden:	But it looks like some objects that are flagged for deletion are not getting deleted.
[11:29]	Kitto Flora:	What I have is an object thats dynamic, hitting a static object, and collision_start event isnt happening
[11:30]	Kitto Flora:	I suspect its because it thinks its colliding all the time
[11:30]	Andrew Linden:	If it were common (at the scale that was aparent in the region I was looking at) I'd expect a lot more reports of it.
[11:30]	MarkByron Falta:	how about the bug that allows you edit somebody else's phys prim and prevent their movement?
[11:30]	Arawn Spitteler:	I think we've a Jira number for the Racer's Edge
[11:31]	Simon Linden:	We've discussed that before ... it's definitely an issue, particularly with someone stopping other vehicles or interfering with motion
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	Kitto, yes it the collision events happen fast enought then it should get one collision_start(), lots of collision(), and eventually one collision_end() event
[11:31]	Gregory Maurer:	That might need a viewer change to reflect, selection acts weird when it doesn't stop it from moving
[11:31]	Arawn Spitteler:	Wasn't the talk about shouting a script warning, when that happened
[11:31]	Simon Linden:	It's an interesting balance to sort out how the permissions must work
[11:32]	Rex Cronon:	yes, a warning, but how easy is to implement:)
[11:32]	MarkByron Falta:	but you don't have to continually edit the object to prevent the movement. you can set renderfarclip to 1, close the edit window, and the object remains in edit
[11:32]	Kitto Flora:	Andrew: Yes, I understand that... never seen this failure to generate a _start even though theres a visible gap that dissappears with motion
[11:32]	Andrew Linden:	hrm... no collision_start()
[11:32]	Kitto Flora:	Mark: Thats also a feature - ability to capture a rogue object...
[11:33]	Kitto Flora:	Andrew: its like there has to be a LOT of separation to move from collision, to collision_end
[11:33]	MarkByron Falta:	doesn't really matter to me if they fix it - i don't even there's a jira on it
[11:33]	Gregory Maurer:	Related to collision_start, why does the avatar generate so many of those while just standing on an object
[11:33]	Kitto Flora:	and thus get a collision_start again
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	Kitto, you're talking about a new problem that you've noticed in 1.25?
[11:34]	Kitto Flora:	Andrw: I dont *think* its in 1.25
[11:34]	Kitto Flora:	Next time I get it to occur I'll check what sim V is
[11:34]	Andrew Linden:	ok, whew!
[11:34]	Kitto Flora:	Humm - I suppose it could be
[11:34]	Kitto Flora:	Occurence is intermittent
[11:35]	Andrew Linden:	well, as long as it isn't new to 1.25
[11:35]	Kitto Flora:	Hah - maybe I better look at that :)
[11:35]	Morgaine Dinova:	There's always a hysteresis band to prevent event storms from tiny vibrations. Maybe the hysteresis isn't working.
[11:35]	Kitto Flora:	Its like hysteresis got *large*
[11:36]	Andrew Linden:	oh right, there was a collision problem in 1.24 that was fixed in 1.25
[11:36]	Gregory Maurer:	or... it looks like thats fixed
[11:36]	Andrew Linden:	it was related to SVC-2511
[11:36]	Andrew Linden:	the collision events were not getting handled in a timely way
[11:36]	Andrew Linden:	so it had more to do with when the collision events were actually handled in the script engine
[11:37]	Andrew Linden:	I'll cross my fingers and hope that bug is less of a problem in 1.25
[11:37]	Andrew Linden:	that is, your specific problem Kitto.
[11:37]	Kitto Flora:	I did sort of notice that maybe the problem happend the *first* time after objects were rezzed... but...
[11:38]	Kitto Flora:	It occurs to me that as I usually start in same sim, maybe I am seeing problem in same sim, and maybe its version related
[11:38]	Andrew Linden:	So one way to get my attention is to go to CG office hours and talk about some problem that falls into my domain.
[11:38]	Andrew Linden:	CG sits right next to me in RL
[11:38]	Andrew Linden:	and will relay info
[11:39]	Kitto Flora:	what os CG?
[11:39]	Kitto Flora:	is
[11:39]	Gregory Maurer:	actually, I was just at CG office hours
[11:39]	Andrew Linden:	CG Linden
[11:39]	Kitto Flora:	whats he do?
[11:39]	MarkByron Falta:	I've noticed the textures are loading better with Public Nightly
[11:39]	Simon Linden:	yes, they should be faster
[11:39]	Andrew Linden:	So through that grapevine I hear that MarkByron has some issues on his mind: the 800 m ban limit and some other one.
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	Two bugs that I haven't been able to fix yet.
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	Would you like to raise those issues here MarkByron?
[11:40]	MarkByron Falta:	yeah, the explicit ban limit (not the implict public ban limit that should be done away with)
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	Elaborate on what you mean by "explicit" and "implicit" please.
[11:41]	MarkByron Falta:	explicit is when you ban the av by name
[11:41]	MarkByron Falta:	implicit is when you set access to parcel to non-public
[11:41]	Arawn Spitteler:	I think he means Ban Lines as opposed to Access Lines.
[11:41]	Gregory Maurer:	explicity = on band list
[11:41]	Gregory Maurer:	implicit = not on allow list
[11:41]	MarkByron Falta:	on the ban list by name
[11:41]	Arawn Spitteler:	I'd like to bury the Access Lines, for those without access.
[11:41]	Kitto Flora:	Do you mean the red NO ENTRY lines?
[11:41]	MarkByron Falta:	okay, read the jira
[11:41]	Kitto Flora:	#?
[11:42]	Gregory Maurer:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2546
[11:42]	Andrew Linden:	Well the NO ENTRY lines show up if you are banned outright (explicit) or if no one is allowed but a few (implicit)
[11:42]	MarkByron Falta:	not really concerned about the crappy textures that are used - just conerned that banned avatars should not be allowed to build on banned land
[11:42]	MarkByron Falta:	which they can do now
[11:42]	MarkByron Falta:	becuas the build limts were exteneed to 4096 under h4
[11:43]	Morgaine Dinova:	See Mark, told you you were confusing the issue by talking about bans :-)))
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	Ok so MarkByron proposes that the explicit ban height should go to infinity?
[11:43]	MarkByron Falta:	i don't care about the ban height - i care that banned avatars should not be allowed to build on banned land
[11:43]	Arawn Spitteler:	Can they build? There'd still be perm limits, above the lines wouldn't there?
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	ok I get it.
[11:43]	MarkByron Falta:	and since the build limit is 4096, than it should be 4096
[11:43]	Morgaine Dinova:	No, Mark merely wants people to stop using up his prims when they've presonally been banned ... a much simpler issue.
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	yeah, I think we should probably fix that
[11:44]	MarkByron Falta:	no, a banned avatar shouldn't be able to interact on a parcel that he's EXPLICITLY banned from
[11:44]	Gregory Maurer:	It makes sense that if someone is banned, you don't want them to be able to keep doing what you banned them for
[11:44]	MarkByron Falta:	they were explicity banned for a reason
[11:44]	Andrew Linden:	I'll make a note and try to actually get to that... after we deal with our current database problems.
[11:44]	MarkByron Falta:	kk
[11:45]	Morgaine Dinova:	Well nobody should be able to use up your prims at any height ... but that's unrelated to being able to overfly the country at huge height. Banning overfly is non-workable.
[11:45]	Arawn Spitteler:	If someone wants to be unsociable, they could explicitly ban anyone detected, for a pseudo implicit
[11:45]	Kitto Flora:	Sounds like a resoable thing to do - for named Avs
[11:45]	MarkByron Falta:	frankly they should get rid of ban lines and the obnixous textures
[11:45]	Kitto Flora:	Does Mark have autoreturn set on?
[11:45]	MarkByron Falta:	but they need to prevent av's from using banned parcels
[11:45]	Gregory Maurer:	autoreturn
[11:46]	MarkByron Falta:	that's not the point
[11:46]	Andrew Linden:	MarkByron, what is the jira number of your other item? SVC-1253?
[11:46]	Gregory Maurer whispers: there are still too many ways to avoid that
[11:46]	MarkByron Falta:	a banned avatar shouldn't be able to create on banned parcels or leave objects
[11:46]	MarkByron Falta:	indeed, of course you can bypass auto-return
[11:46]	Kitto Flora:	Yeah, the smart ones can
[11:46]	MarkByron Falta:	LOL
[11:46]	MarkByron Falta:	script kiddies
[11:47]	MarkByron Falta:	that copy other scripts - they need no skill
[11:47]	Kitto Flora:	Autoreturn does seem to discourage many griefers though
[11:47]	Gregory Maurer:	I can name 3 ways to prevent it right now, unfortunately
[11:47]	MarkByron Falta:	the point is if you have a system in place, than make it workable
[11:48]	Andrew Linden:	Gregory, name the three ways for us.
[11:48]	Gregory Maurer:	selection, changing sims, self-replication
[11:48]	MarkByron Falta:	in h1, you couldn't build above 796m
[11:48]	MarkByron Falta:	and the explicit ban system was set to that heigh
[11:48]	MarkByron Falta:	makes perfect sense
[11:49]	Andrew Linden:	Selection could be done with bots, changing sims... we'd have to remember that object's age on the parcel on arrival, and self-replication yes... can't think of a simple easy solution to that one.
[11:49]	Morgaine Dinova:	Mark's point is very consistent, and I think it's worth fixing ... however, build heights will rise, and the plan doesn't scale, as eventually it'll make the whole world non-overflyable.
[11:50]	MarkByron Falta:	i don't think the build limit is going to extend beyond 4096m anytime soon
[11:51]	MarkByron Falta:	but perhaps re-look the ban system. get rid of access resrictions and better enforce explicit bans
[11:51]	Kitto Flora:	Explisive ban lines extending up to build limits - I'd agree with. It sounds like an oversight to me, that they were not changed.
[11:51]	Morgaine Dinova:	It's just plain wrong to not be able to overfly without seeing in low detail the world beneath though. The two things, building limits and overfly limits, need to be decoupled.
[11:51]	Simon Linden:	well, if we're ever going much higher we're probably going to consider a 3D grid. Have a high-altitude region covering a larger area for flying. Don't hold your breath for it, however
[11:51]	MarkByron Falta:	were not talking about restricitng overflight to the public
[11:51]	Simon Linden:	(there's not much air up there)
[11:51]	Kitto Flora:	Implicit bans to infinity - that they are no limited to 300M - thats been a problem for ages.
[11:52]	Gregory Maurer:	well you can wear a scuba helmet
[11:52]	MarkByron Falta:	were talking about restricting overlight to explcitly banned av's
[11:52]	Arawn Spitteler'd like a rez rights list for merchants, and include groups on it, but doesn't knw if that's beeen Jiraed yet
[11:52]	Morgaine Dinova:	But Mark, if the explicit banning is programmable, then sentry objects will enforce it on ALL overflyers.
[11:52]	MarkByron Falta:	no it won't
[11:52]	MarkByron Falta:	doesn't now
[11:53]	Gregory Maurer:	well banned AV's should not be able to hear chat, chat, touch, etc., only fly over
[11:53]	MarkByron Falta:	explicit ban is just the people in your ban list
[11:53]	MarkByron Falta:	you can't add everybody - only 300 av's max
[11:53]	Andrew Linden:	(For sindy's sake I will now mention SVC-22)
[11:53]	Morgaine Dinova:	I agree with Gregory. Fly over is a different thing altogether, If you block overflight, you're turning the world into a set of cages and obstacles.
[11:53]	Simon Linden:	Yes, let's do SVC-22 someday
[11:54]	MarkByron Falta:	svc-22 - that's an old one
[11:54]	Simon Linden:	It's sort of a tradition for these meetings
[11:54]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hehe
[11:54]	Arawn Spitteler recalls, if a vehicle flies across a sim boundary, into an area from which it's rider is bannned...
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	Ok so this hour is almost done and these days I have another meeting that starts as noon (internal bug triage).
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	Anybody have some last minute issues or questions that they were saving for the end?
[11:55]	MarkByron Falta:	but the problem with vehicles entering banned parcels is 99% because of access restrictions not ban
[11:55]	Gregory Maurer:	sec
[11:55]	Arawn Spitteler:	Did we touch on SVC-3660?
[11:55]	MarkByron Falta:	sounds like the region needs to be reset
[11:55]	MarkByron Falta:	not a JIRA issue
[11:55]	Gregory Maurer:	What are the expected plans to fix offset and phantom invincibility in combat sims, time or if they will ever be fixed, and will you be removing posJump in the next release
[11:56]	MarkByron Falta:	ghost prims can be resolved by rebooting the region
[11:56]	Andrew Linden:	No, this is the first I've heard of SVC-3660 (ghost perms on parcel)
[11:56]	Kitto Flora:	I mention it 2 weeks ago
[11:56]	Morgaine Dinova:	Heh. Don't think rebooting the region is a production-level fix :-)
[11:56]	Andrew Linden:	that is, ghost permissions
[11:56]	Rex Cronon:	doesn't phantom/ghost mode no longer works?
[11:57]	Andrew Linden:	ok well this is the first I've actually looked at the bug. I missed it two weeks ago.
[11:57]	Gregory Maurer:	just need to know what you plan to do with those exploits in the near future
[11:57]	Arawn Spitteler:	Ghost Perms are a new phenomenon, and I suspect it's afflicting HTTP In Sandboxes
[11:57]	Kitto Flora:	I encountered a case where region settings didnt match what was in the panel settings
[11:57]	MarkByron Falta:	i'll try to repro on my homestead
[11:57]	Kitto Flora:	Restart fixed it
[11:57]	MarkByron Falta:	oh
[11:57]	Kitto Flora:	I asked if others had seen this
[11:58]	Kitto Flora:	Arawan found something similar
[11:58]	Andrew Linden:	I wonder how that happened. As far as I know we query the real permissions on the parcel.
[11:58]	Rex Cronon:	what r ghost perms?
[11:58]	Andrew Linden:	The parcel has the right perms, but owner cannot rez, for perms problems.
[11:58]	Arawn Spitteler:	When Permissions are ghosted
[11:59]	Andrew Linden:	There is also an region override on being able to build. I wonder if it is ghosted estate options.
[11:59]	Kitto Flora:	parcel tells the client that its no-rez and no-script too!
[11:59]	Andrew Linden:	Er... ghosted region-wide options.
[11:59]	MarkByron Falta:	what about VWR-11522
[11:59]	MarkByron Falta:	?
[11:59]	Kitto Flora:	Something like that Andrew
[11:59]	Andrew Linden:	Well, if you find the repro recipe please post to the public jira.
[11:59]	Kitto Flora:	Must be rare
[12:00]	Arawn Spitteler:	Kitto and I hit different fixes, so it might happen on parcel and estate.
[12:00]	Kitto Flora:	Thats the reason for SVC-3660 - its fishing for more data
[12:00]	MarkByron Falta:	i found that all the 1.22 clients have an annoying cursor hang (using Vista)
[12:00]	Simon Linden:	VWR-11522 is a viewer issue ... we look at server stuff almost exclusively
[12:00]	MarkByron Falta:	oh
[12:00]	Andrew Linden:	Ok, i've got to run.
[12:00]	Andrew Linden:	Thanks for coming everyone.
[12:00]	Morgaine Dinova:	Thanks all
[12:00]	Simon Linden:	I've got to go as well. Thanks for coming
[12:00]	Rex Cronon:	bye everybody
[12:00]	Simon Linden:	bye
[12:00]	Morgaine Dinova:	Cya Rex
[12:01]	Kitto Flora:	Byebye all!
[12:01]	Kitto Flora:	Cute!
[12:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	LOL, sucker for cuteness here :-)
[12:01]	Arawn Spitteler:	Bye-Bye, Kitto