User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2009 01 22
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Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:
| [17:00] | Sindy Tsure: | heya andrew |
| [17:00] | Sindy Tsure: | & all |
| [17:00] | Jor3l Boa: | hola muchachoss !! |
| [17:00] | Jor3l Boa: | Hola muchachooossss!!! |
| [17:00] | Saijanai Kuhn: | at the bing of the hour, he drops in |
| [17:00] | MarkByron Falta: | Hello |
| [17:00] | Kitto Flora: | Hello all |
| [17:00] | Andrew Linden: | hello |
| [17:00] | Gellan Glenelg: | hi |
| [17:01] | Jor3l Boa: | lag :) |
| [17:01] | Andrew Linden: | So... server-1.25 has been deployed to half the grid |
| [17:01] | Sindy Tsure claps | |
| [17:01] | Saijanai Kuhn: | hooray |
| [17:01] | Andrew Linden: | and there are no fires or nuclear meltdowns |
| [17:01] | Jor3l Boa: | yes! |
| [17:01] | MarkByron Falta: | yes it has |
| [17:01] | Teravus Ousley: | that is a plus! |
| [17:01] | Andrew Linden: | so looks like it has reached the "point of no turning back" |
| [17:01] | Morgaine Dinova: | Wow Andrew! Big gratz, and big phew :-)))) |
| [17:02] | Andrew Linden: | It has been a long time coming. |
| [17:02] | Morgaine Dinova: | Glad we've got over that little hurdle. |
| [17:02] | Andrew Linden: | Prospero Linden must be pleased. server-1.25 has been his bane since October |
| [17:02] | Morgaine Dinova: | Yeah ... he'd better take a week off :-) |
| [17:02] | Andrew Linden: | the rest of the grid will roll forward tomorrow I think |
| [17:02] | Sindy Tsure: | hm.. is it really too late? reading talk of https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3679 |
| [17:02] | Saijanai Kuhn made many Monty pythonesque jokes about credits and so on | |
| [17:03] | Sindy Tsure: | mono GC being wrong or something with large lists |
| [17:03] | Andrew Linden: | I'm not sure Prospero is allowed to go on vacation |
| [17:03] | Arawn Spitteler's waiting on 1.26.3 https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3679 | |
| [17:03] | Arawn's translator: | / me esperando's em 1.26.3 https: / / jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3679 |
| [17:03] | Andrew Linden: | and I think he works 6 or 7 days a week |
| [17:03] | Morgaine Dinova chuckles | |
| [17:03] | Teravus Ousley: | :D |
| [17:03] | Andrew Linden: | I mentioned a few weeks ago that we were going to start a bug-fix sprint |
| [17:04] | Andrew Linden: | that is still happening, but it will probably wrap up this week or early next |
| [17:04] | Andrew Linden: | the bad news is that this database emergency happened and we threw some of the bug-fix resources at it |
| [17:04] | Morgaine Dinova: | I wondered why Prospero was so relaxed this afternoon, handing out 1.25 bears :-) Stuff was working! :-))) |
| [17:05] | Arawn Spitteler has to hand it to Morgaine | |
| [17:05] | Sindy Tsure looks embarrased | |
| [17:05] | Andrew Linden: | we think we made some progress on that, but not as many regular simulator bugs fixed as I hoped. |
| [17:05] | Andrew Linden: | However, our blighty team (UK office) has been quietly checking in bug fixes to my maint-server-7 branch |
| [17:05] | Andrew Linden: | I'm not even sure what fixes are all in there. Probably some MONO and LSL bug fixes. |
| [17:06] | Andrew Linden: | I think we've locked where we're going to branch off server-1.26 already |
| [17:06] | Andrew Linden: | so any bug fixes from this little sprint will not be in server-1.26, but will go into 1.27 |
| [17:07] | Andrew Linden: | Ok, I think that is all of the LL internal announcements I had. |
| [17:07] | Andrew Linden: | Got anything I missed Simon? |
| [17:07] | Sindy Tsure: | any rough dates for 1.26 & 1.27? |
| [17:07] | Simon Linden: | I think that covers it |
| [17:07] | Arawn Spitteler: | Will HTTP_Server be in 1.26? |
| [17:07] | Andrew Linden: | I'm not even going to speculate on 1.26 deliverly dates |
| [17:07] | Andrew Linden: | what with how long it took server-1.25 |
| [17:08] | Sindy Tsure nods.. hope it's a bit shorter! | |
| [17:08] | MarkByron Falta: | when will it be on beta grid? |
| [17:08] | Andrew Linden: | hrm... HTTP_Server... |
| [17:08] | Sindy Tsure: | 1.24 had some big stuff in it, tho |
| [17:08] | Andrew Linden: | I'm not sure, do you know the state of HTTP-in Simon? |
| [17:08] | Andrew Linden: | What is the official name of that project? |
| [17:09] | Simon Linden: | It was in the merge process ... not sure where it is |
| [17:09] | Saijanai Kuhn needs better header control in HTTP-in in order to get a more reliable agent domain in LSL | |
| [17:09] | Andrew Linden: | Tell you what, I'll ask one of the LL devs and report back when the answer arrives. |
| [17:09] | Saijanai Kuhn: | Kelley is in charge of it, but he was on paternity leave last month |
| [17:09] | Arawn Spitteler: | http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LSL_http_server/beta |
| [17:10] | Andrew Linden: | it seems kelly is gone for the day, so that question will probably not be answered this week. |
| [17:10] | Simon Linden: | yeah, he's already headed home |
| [17:11] | Andrew Linden: | Ok then... I guess the table is open |
| [17:11] | Morgaine Dinova: | lol@simpleminded coffee script |
| [17:11] | Andrew Linden: | I was kinda hoping we wouldn't have to wistfully go over our favorite old bugs (SVC-22!) today |
| [17:11] | Sindy Tsure again complains, tho i know it's not really your guys gig, about the lack of top-scripts and such for mainland owners.. | |
| [17:11] | Andrew Linden: | but I don't have any topics in mind |
| [17:12] | Sindy Tsure: | ...and about svc-22 |
| [17:12] | Sindy Tsure: | home was showing 12k active scripts last night with 30 people there.. no way to figure out who to yell at |
| [17:12] | Arawn Spitteler wonders, whether those who can't hand off, for paternity leave, are ready to let their children grow up: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-943 might not be entirely relevant to this discussion, but I'm restraining my self to an attitude, that those who know the turns, shouldn't build street signs. | |
| [17:12] | Andrew Linden: | script performance tools, balancing, and analysis is an interesting topic |
| [17:13] | Kitto Flora: | It is |
| [17:13] | Andrew Linden: | however Babbage Linden knows better what the plans are there. |
| [17:13] | Kitto Flora: | I spent most of today trying to measure the LSL load of a running monorail car, as I changed things in it. |
| [17:13] | MarkByron Falta: | i had read that homestead and OS sims would be identififed more readily |
| [17:13] | Sindy Tsure knows it's not a simple problem but my only options are 'live with it' and 'call support' | |
| [17:13] | Sindy Tsure would like to be enabled there | |
| [17:14] | Sindy Tsure: | ok.. rant over.. next |
| [17:14] | Arawn Spitteler: | Enbought calls to support might becme an automated resolution. |
| [17:14] | Andrew Linden: | Yeah, don't think it would be possible to schedule topics of the triage's effectively. |
| [17:14] | Arawn Spitteler: | SVC-22 is where vehicles don't know that they're vehicles? |
| [17:15] | Morgaine Dinova: | Well if you think the problems are bad now, just wait for interop. We need the cap API to provide massive amounts of monitoring facilities to control what's coming. |
| [17:15] | Andrew Linden: | I've been participating in some intenal triage's lately (mostly for simulator related bugs) |
| [17:15] | Arawn Spitteler: | I think a bot could read the relevant wikis, so it's just a matter of round to-its |
| [17:15] | Andrew Linden: | perhaps I should start attending the public triage meetings |
| [17:15] | Arawn Spitteler: | I don'tknow were all the Triages are. |
| [17:15] | Andrew Linden: | I used to HATE meetings... but now that I've been going to more I'm starting to warm up to them (8-O) |
| [17:16] | Arawn Spitteler: | Office Hours aren't organized by subject. |
| [17:16] | Teravus Ousley: | http://osgrid02.sytes.net:9101/SStats/ <--- something like that?? :D |
| [17:16] | Kitto Flora: | Are they organized at all? |
| [17:16] | Gellan Glenelg: | Arawn: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_Triage |
| [17:16] | Gellan Glenelg: | (for the public ones) |
| [17:16] | Andrew Linden: | Kitto, you're asking about the public triages? There is a regular schedule I think |
| [17:17] | Morgaine Dinova: | Hehe Tera. I think we can do a lot better than that ... but it's nice to see an *active* log, great for testing |
| [17:17] | Sindy Tsure: | those meetings are tough if you don't prepare.. the few i went to were anyway.. |
| [17:17] | Sindy Tsure: | *long ago |
| [17:17] | Andrew Linden: | however I don't know much else -- I havn't attended any because I'm usually kept busy fixing bugs and have more than I can get to |
| [17:17] | Kitto Flora: | No. Office Hours. The original schedule was never updated. And the infor on who meets where for what is scattered all over the place now |
| [17:17] | Andrew Linden: | Oh |
| [17:18] | Andrew Linden: | there was a category in the public wiki, and office hours were supposed to be listed there |
| [17:18] | Sindy Tsure: | http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Office_hours |
| [17:18] | Andrew Linden: | I wonder if that category page has deteriorated. I haven't looked at it recently |
| [17:18] | Kitto Flora: | http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=mvktahmo6mjpvpkkkdnmabmghg%40group.calendar.google.com |
| [17:18] | Kitto Flora: | That was the original |
| [17:18] | Arawn Spitteler: | Alphabetically, according tot the linden's last name |
| [17:19] | Sindy Tsure: | that's getting updated.. it semi-recently started to get categories.. vteam, doc team, etc |
| [17:19] | Morgaine Dinova: | If you remember Kaylee and the strawberry after Book got on Serenity ... I'm eating a strawberry *that* good ^_^ |
| [17:19] | Sindy Tsure: | lol@arawn |
| [17:19] | Andrew Linden: | Well, the main OH wiki page looks in order. |
| [17:20] | Andrew Linden: | If anything changes... it is a wiki and can be updated. |
| [17:20] | Kitto Flora: | Yes, that looks a lot better. the old google site ought to point to it |
| [17:20] | Andrew Linden: | If anyone notices info that is wrong they should either update it, send suggestions to the right people. |
| [17:21] | MarkByron Falta: | . |
| [17:21] | Arawn Spitteler: | It should also have a catagory for Triages. If I learn how to schedule the Triage meetings, though, others will have a slower learning curve. |
| [17:21] | Sindy Tsure updates andrew's info to make office hours every day.. much more convenient! | |
| [17:22] | Jor3l Boa: | Oo |
| [17:22] | Andrew Linden: | Not a bad idea Arawn. You could add links or a section to the triage meetings. |
| [17:22] | Andrew Linden: | Ack. Not sure that would be a useful way for me to spend time -- daily office hours. |
| [17:22] | Andrew Linden: | Here I am and I don't have an agenda (as per normal). |
| [17:22] | Sindy Tsure: | delegate! |
| [17:23] | Sindy Tsure: | (sorry simon!) |
| [17:23] | Erich Bremer: | Andew, are there any plans to allow for dynamic manipulation of sculpt maps, either directly via LSL or by allowing sculpt maps to be loaded via http from remote sites? |
| [17:23] | Simon Linden: | no worries ... was multi-tasking. Seems one of my favorite features isn't in 1.25 ... attachment scripts showing up in top scripts |
| [17:23] | Kitto Flora: | I can mention that the failure of collision_start() I was seeing is not 1.25 related, it happens in 1.24. |
| [17:24] | Teravus Ousley: | Or Sculpt map based physics proxies |
| [17:24] | Andrew Linden: | One thing I was thinking about recently. I've been giving a few "Intro to SL Architecture" talks internally to new LL hires and was thinking that some of the material could be wrapped up in a public version of the talk. |
| [17:24] | Sindy Tsure: | bummer, simon.. i know some estate managers who would like that |
| [17:24] | Sindy Tsure: | yes, andrew! |
| [17:24] | Sindy Tsure votes twice | |
| [17:24] | Simon Linden: | I have to find out where that code went... |
| [17:24] | Andrew Linden: | I haven't done any work on it yet, but figured such a presentation would be of interest to those who like to attend office hours. |
| [17:25] | Arawn Spitteler: | Public Posting of Transcript Possible? |
| [17:25] | Sindy Tsure: | heya rex |
| [17:25] | Arawn Spitteler: | Hello, Boots of Rex |
| [17:25] | Andrew Linden: | Simon what branch did that attachment script stats stuff go into? maint-server-6? |
| [17:25] | Rex Cronon: | hi sindy, arawn, everybody:) |
| [17:25] | Simon Linden: | I'm not sure ... it was a while ago, so I expected it in 1.25 |
| [17:25] | Andrew Linden: | Well Arawn I was thinking maybe I'd give an architecture talk in voice |
| [17:26] | Andrew Linden: | perhaps we could take a poll: text or voice? |
| [17:26] | Rex Cronon: | i had no idea my boots arrive before me:) |
| [17:26] | Rex Cronon: | voice:( |
| [17:26] | Erich Bremer: | voice |
| [17:26] | Sindy Tsure: | maybe record it.. one of those 'inside the lab' mp3s LL was doing a while ago.. |
| [17:26] | Arawn Spitteler has the chat window stretched across the window, in case a lot of subwindows open, with seperate tabs. | |
| [17:26] | Andrew Linden: | Yeah, if I did it in voice it would be nice to record it. |
| [17:27] | Ethan Schuman: | If it's done over voice, it'd be good to host on a website so it'd be available for anyone who wanted |
| [17:27] | Andrew Linden: | I'll have to ask Torley for help probably. |
| [17:27] | Arawn Spitteler: | Inside The Lab with Transcript, might be good. |
| [17:27] | Rex Cronon: | i hope that in not such a far future, the RC will allow at least a 24 hour grace period, during which one can log in using the old version. |
| [17:27] | Andrew Linden: | I'd have to find a better computer than this one. |
| [17:27] | Kitto Flora: | Voice is still a problem for me, I have to run 2 PCs |
| [17:27] | Arawn Spitteler wonders if the transcript could follow the recording, as an HTML on a Prim | |
| [17:27] | Sindy Tsure sees philip posting on blog.secondlife.com.. slurl stuff | |
| [17:28] | Arawn Spitteler: | Save yur current old computer for Andrew Tester |
| [17:28] | Gregory Maurer wonders how big this table can get | |
| [17:29] | MarkByron Falta: | I had a question - should SVC-2820 be a VWR issue? |
| [17:29] | Andrew Linden: | 10 m in diameter I would guess |
| [17:29] | Rex Cronon: | too bad is not a megaprim. things would get interesting:) |
| [17:29] | Gregory Maurer: | 5m in diameter :p |
| [17:29] | Teravus Ousley: | it looks like a 90/90 twist.. so I'd say probably a 20m diameter :D.. while only being 10m in size |
| [17:29] | Sindy Tsure: | i think that's one of those suggestions that has both vwr and svc parts, mark |
| [17:30] | Sindy Tsure: | could do it in just the viewer, tho |
| [17:30] | Gregory Maurer: | I'm pretty sure muting is all viewer-side |
| [17:30] | Andrew Linden: | I think SVC-2820 would be a client-side bug. |
| [17:30] | Morgaine Dinova: | Technical stuff isn't too great presented by voice, unless there's tons of ready-made diagrams (not Powerpoint bullet points, ugh!). Ends up as fluff instead of informational. |
| [17:30] | Arawn Spitteler wonders if animations could b muted. | |
| [17:30] | Ethan Schuman: | I have a question I'd like to ask. I asked it over at Babbage's office hours and it was suggested I bring it here. |
| [17:30] | Andrew Linden: | Ask Ethan |
| [17:31] | Simon Linden: | Wow, 492 votes. That will get someone's attention, at least |
| [17:31] | Kitto Flora: | take the engine |
| [17:31] | Kitto's translator: | tener el motor |
| [17:31] | Sindy Tsure: | with group chat, it might be better to do it on the server too, greg.. dunno how that stuff works but i think it's one of the mor expensive things in sl |
| [17:31] | Gregory Maurer: | Well I know that muting now is handled on the client |
| [17:31] | MarkByron Falta: | it's been around a long time |
| [17:32] | Morgaine Dinova: | The problem isn't muting. The problem is knowing WHAT to mute when there's a problem. Need better info services. |
| [17:32] | Ethan Schuman: | Has LL ever considered the possibility of rescaling the size of sims? A friend of mine and I have been working quite hard at creating interpreters to flip a regular sim onto its side to effectively create a 4096x256x256 sim. The applications for a "long" sim like that would be limitless, and could potentially draw an extremely large number of new accounts to SL. |
| [17:32] | MarkByron Falta: | the boy lane client has a simple add menu to hide group IM |
| [17:32] | Teravus Ousley: | I think everone knows about the 90/90 twist trick now |
| [17:32] | Gregory Maurer: | Actually, 15m is the largest one normal prim can get |
| [17:32] | Gregory Maurer: | radius |
| [17:33] | Ethan Schuman: | We call the project VerticalSim, and I can take you to it after this meeting fi you'd like to see. |
| [17:33] | Simon Linden: | Ethan - yes, it's been discussed but hasn't gotten past the 'interesting idea' phase |
| [17:33] | Andrew Linden: | Ethan, that topic has been discusse here. It is dear to Simon Linden's heart. |
| [17:33] | Morgaine Dinova: | I'd like to see that Ethan |
| [17:33] | Arawn Spitteler: | Escher would love Verticle Sims |
| [17:33] | Kitto Flora: | Turning a sim on its side would have the Devs cimbing the walls! |
| [17:33] | Gregory Maurer: | Spiderdev |
| [17:33] | Ethan Schuman: | Our current iteration is merely a proof of concept, but it's quite cool. |
| [17:34] | Simon Linden: | It turns out the biggest problems aren't with the region itself, but how to fit that into the rest of the grid, which unfortunately has too many assumptions about the fixed region size |
| [17:34] | Andrew Linden: | Well, we haven't talked about turning a region on its side. |
| [17:34] | Jor3l Boa: | hmmm |
| [17:34] | Gregory Maurer: | you could add hypercube support\ |
| [17:34] | Simon Linden: | what's the reason for turning it on the side? Does gravity go sideways? |
| [17:34] | Arawn Spitteler: | Sims would be the same size, on the map, but the aviews would be pegged to a different axis, and gravity would bemoved. |
| [17:34] | Teravus Ousley: | heh |
| [17:35] | Simon Linden: | llSetGravity( vector g ) ? |
| [17:35] | Kitto Flora: | Has it ever been requested to have a method to get the prefered language of an Av? |
| [17:35] | Morgaine Dinova: | How about making the gravity vector switchable? At least in 90 deg steps |
| [17:35] | Teravus Ousley imagines walking along minding his own business.. crossing a border between two conjoined sims.. and floating up into the air. | |
| [17:35] | Ethan Schuman: | Turning the sim on its side allows you to make use of a MUCH greater area in the sim. It'd be the killer app that would sell class 5s. Nexii here can tell you much more. |
| [17:35] | Arawn Spitteler: | Rezzing something physical would be a problem, Dynamic objects. |
| [17:35] | Nexii Malthus: | sling |
| [17:35] | Morgaine Dinova: | llSetCurvatureOfSpace() |
| [17:35] | Andrew Linden: | turns out a downward gravity is a hard coded assumption in some parts of the code I fear. |
| [17:36] | Andrew Linden: | Possible, but would be some work. |
| [17:36] | Gregory Maurer: | Less than changing sim dimensions? |
| [17:36] | Nexii Malthus: | Havok is hardcoded with gravity down isn't it? |
| [17:36] | Morgaine Dinova: | I guess we'll have to take the plunge with Opensim/ODE |
| [17:36] | Arawn Spitteler: | So hard coded, that Open Grid wouldn't accomodate? |
| [17:36] | Andrew Linden: | No, you can set the gravity of the havok physics engine. |
| [17:36] | Ethan Schuman: | 4096m = 2.2 miles. The sheer usability of that would definitely make it a project worth pursuing. |
| [17:37] | Teravus Ousley: | various algorithms are written with optimization in mind knowing the gravity.. |
| [17:37] | Morgaine Dinova: | I want a Culture-style orbital world, so I guess I'll be tackling the gravity problem one day ;-) |
| [17:37] | Gellan Glenelg: | @ Kitto: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlGetAgentLanguage |
| [17:37] | Andrew Linden: | We've talked about making large regions in general. Say 512x512 |
| [17:37] | Andrew Linden: | if we could do that maybe we could do 4096x256 |
| [17:38] | Gregory Maurer: | well you could always make everyone use a special vehicle, and build everything sideways, but I don't think you can rotate the viewer camera |
| [17:38] | Andrew Linden: | the physics engine could expand to those sizes without much problem |
| [17:38] | Simon Linden: | How much stuff do you think would break if the dimensions were not 256x256? Should a larger space appear like many normal sized regions (with no crossing hassles!) or as one big-ass space? |
| [17:38] | Morgaine Dinova: | Viewer we can fix, that's one transformation |
| [17:38] | Andrew Linden: | the real problem is our legacy LL-written code |
| [17:38] | Kitto Flora: | / |
| [17:38] | Kitto Flora: | Gellan, does that exist? |
| [17:38] | Teravus Ousley: | the real problem is the assumptions in the gridspaces. |
| [17:38] | Gregory Maurer: | So changing sim dimensions is sort of like trying to divide by zero? |
| [17:38] | Arawn Spitteler: | Legacy is often a problem, in the face of competition. |
| [17:39] | Object: Hello, Avatar! | |
| [17:39] | Teravus Ousley: | .. RegionHandles are used for caching.. and maptiles .. and prim positioning. |
| [17:39] | Arawn Spitteler: | More devicding by a otation, I should think. |
| [17:39] | Ethan Schuman: | The vehicle approach has already been tried (I can demonstrate). It works, but it's inconvenient. If we could get vehicle code addable to attachments, or merely the necessary functions, we could create long sims with what we already have. |
| [17:39] | Object: Hello, Avatar! | |
| [17:39] | Simon Linden: | The viewer also assumes that region size, and expects to talk to another sim when you get near an edge |
| [17:40] | MarkByron Falta: | hmmmmm |
| [17:40] | Gregory Maurer: | Looks like if you did this, you might as well do it right |
| [17:40] | Teravus Ousley: | Yep. that's one of the tricky things.. dealing with the viewer |
| [17:40] | Sindy Tsure yawns.. mario.. original.. | |
| [17:40] | Morgaine Dinova: | Bah, stop waking me up :-) |
| [17:40] | Sindy Tsure: | or was that somebody here? |
| [17:40] | Jor3l Boa: | hmmmm <-bug |
| [17:41] | Teravus Ousley: | I'm sure whoever found it and returned it.. logged who it was. |
| [17:41] | Rex Cronon: | some graphics card allow u to rotate the screen |
| [17:41] | Sindy Tsure has tracked down too many marios.. it's a reflex action to scoff at them :) | |
| [17:41] | Morgaine Dinova: | My HD monitors can both be rotated. |
| [17:42] | Nexii Malthus: | Could the client camera be replaced with a quaternion-based one? So much more reliable than having gimble lock |
| [17:42] | Erich Bremer: | Andew, are there any plans to allow for dynamic manipulation of sculpt maps, either directly via LSL or by allowing sculpt maps to be loaded via http from remote sites? |
| [17:42] | Teravus Ousley wishes more things used quaternions.. ' | |
| [17:42] | Gregory Maurer: | I used to hate quaternions |
| [17:42] | Andrew Linden: | Erich, what do you mean exactly by "sculpt maps"? |
| [17:43] | Andrew Linden: | Oh, you mean like animated sculpties? |
| [17:43] | Rex Cronon: | sculpties |
| [17:43] | Nexii Malthus: | Can't sculpt maps be streamed with media? I saw videos on youtube of this happening |
| [17:43] | Erich Bremer: | a sculpty's shape is determined by the sculpt map |
| [17:43] | Sindy Tsure: | like being able to change one point via a script? |
| [17:43] | Kitto Flora: | Geez I really wish ***DONT*** send IMs to chat worked :( |
| [17:43] | Erich Bremer: | therefore the shape can only be controlled via uploading an image |
| [17:43] | Kitto Flora is spammed by IMs | |
| [17:43] | Morgaine Dinova: | I've never experienced gimble lock in the viewer. The inability to rotate paste +/- 90 degs up/down isn't gimble lock. One axis has to reach zero acceleration. |
| [17:43] | Erich Bremer: | yes, any point in the sculpt map |
| [17:43] | Andrew Linden: | oh, an LSL interface for real-time sculpt map changes. |
| [17:44] | Andrew Linden: | hrm... I haven't heard any plans there. |
| [17:44] | Erich Bremer: | or at least allow for the scuplt map to be loaded remotely via http |
| [17:44] | Erich Bremer: | yes, real-time |
| [17:44] | Gellan Glenelg: | You'd be better off asking Qarl, Erich. Tomorrow, 11AM, http://slurl.com/secondlife/Q/71/96/274 |
| [17:44] | Arawn Spitteler wishes he'd had an intelligent course in LKinear Algebra: Sculpties are viewer sie, like Flexi, so moving that server side is going to b a chalenge. | |
| [17:44] | Andrew Linden: | I'm still hoping I'll be able to tackle better collision shapes for sculpties |
| [17:44] | Andrew Linden: | Erich, the guy you want to ask is Qarl Linden |
| [17:44] | Teravus Ousley: | |
| [17:44] | Andrew Linden: | he may hold office hours, not sure. |
| [17:44] | Erich Bremer: | having to load the image manually limits the use of sculpts for research and academic uses |
| [17:44] | Gregory Maurer: | I saw qarl linden in the sim 'Q' today |
| [17:44] | Saijanai Kuhn: | 11am SLT fridays |
| [17:44] | Rex Cronon: | if sculpties are lossless it shouldn't be that hard to save thaem back to theserver:) |
| [17:44] | Erich Bremer: | Qarl? ok, thanks |
| [17:45] | Sindy Tsure: | i think they're just saved as a texture on the server |
| [17:45] | Erich Bremer: | yes, only as a texture |
| [17:45] | Saijanai Kuhn: | Arawn ippod U has a linear Algebra lecture course by Gilbert strang |
| [17:45] | Andrew Linden: | Qarl Linden wrote the sculpty code |
| [17:45] | Erich Bremer: | ah |
| [17:45] | Sindy Tsure: | don't want to save every change - asset overload.. griefer heaven |
| [17:45] | Andrew Linden: | and may know better about what is possible, easy, or in the plans. |
| [17:45] | Teravus Ousley: | One thing that helps with sculptie proxies.. is lowering the resolution when they're physical |
| [17:46] | Teravus Ousley: | 16x16 maximum |
| [17:46] | Andrew Linden: | Teravus, we would have to have low res approximations of most sculpties for collision purposes, yes. |
| [17:46] | Arawn Spitteler'd frst lie collissivision | |
| [17:46] | Sindy Tsure: | when would that happen? you'd build the mesh when the object rezzed? updated every sculpt map change? |
| [17:47] | Saijanai Kuhn stil wonders how a 62 cube sculpty collision map would work. Seems a bit overkill | |
| [17:47] | Teravus Ousley: | I guess the other part is, server side, you'd have to decode them.. during startup. (the j2k).. with maybe an async callback |
| [17:47] | Sindy Tsure: | or try to be tricky and save it with the texture sculpt map asset? |
| [17:47] | Andrew Linden: | at the moment the server doesn't know much about the sculpty shape |
| [17:47] | Andrew Linden: | all it knows is that it is sculpty, but no details |
| [17:47] | Saijanai Kuhn: | its just a sphere or torus(?) with the right bounding box |
| [17:47] | Gregory Maurer: | sphere |
| [17:48] | Andrew Linden: | the proper collision code would have to be written from scratch |
| [17:48] | Erich Bremer: | yes, if the sulpt map was updated, a call with somehting like llUpdateSculptMap() would trigger a sync accross slients |
| [17:48] | Morgaine Dinova: | Pity that creators can't define customer bounding boxes |
| [17:48] | Gregory Maurer: | well they can add another prim to it |
| [17:48] | Morgaine Dinova: | custome* |
| [17:48] | Morgaine Dinova: | custom* |
| [17:48] | Gregory Maurer: | and make the sculpty phantom |
| [17:48] | Sindy Tsure: | there's been talk of that here before, morgaine.. about having buildres be able to define a collision hull |
| [17:48] | Teravus Ousley: | heh, it's the equivilent of what was previously a vertex soup |
| [17:49] | Sindy Tsure: | ...or have objects with some physical/some phantom prims |
| [17:49] | Saijanai Kuhn: | I like the one-sculpty stairs where they rotate the texture so that the boudning box fits the appearance of the steps. |
| [17:49] | Teravus Ousley: | Dahlia wrote some pretty fast sculpty ---> Collision proxy code for OpenSimulator. |
| [17:49] | Poon Voom: | Alright, anyways, let me check it in this sim. |
| [17:49] | Andrew Linden: | there are some LL devs who want to work on mesh support in SL |
| [17:49] | Poon Voom: | I'll use the source code on the wiki article. |
| [17:49] | Poon Voom: | Nexii! |
| [17:50] | Sindy Tsure: | Sheep! |
| [17:50] | Sindy Tsure: | hm.. nothing.. |
| [17:50] | Object: Hello, Avatar! | |
| [17:50] | Andrew Linden: | one of the things I worry about there is... the more meshes in SL the more we'll need to support mesh collisions |
| [17:50] | Gregory Maurer: | Isn't the terrain a mesh? |
| [17:50] | Andrew Linden: | and I just don't see the resources in the server-side dev pool |
| [17:50] | Andrew Linden: | yes, the terrain is a very special case |
| [17:50] | Teravus Ousley: | heightfield |
| [17:50] | Teravus Ousley: | |
| [17:50] | Andrew Linden: | the terrain data is loaded from the simstate, not in an asset |
| [17:50] | Rex Cronon: | yes. u can convert the terrain to a sculptie, and back:) |
| [17:51] | Andrew Linden: | you can't take terrains into your inventory |
| [17:51] | Morgaine Dinova: | Andrew: sounds like you need community devs doing it then :-))) |
| [17:51] | Erich Bremer: | mesh support would be great |
| [17:51] | Morgaine Dinova chuckles | |
| [17:51] | Andrew Linden: | also, sculpies have closed geometry by definition |
| [17:51] | Andrew Linden: | terrain is a square grid without surface closure |
| [17:51] | Saijanai Kuhn: | We need some way to get devscontributing to server code, which is hard because its not oOS |
| [17:52] | Saijanai Kuhn: | thought that planar sculpties were the same way |
| [17:52] | Andrew Linden: | Poon Voom has a question about SVC-2570 I believe. |
| [17:52] | Arawn Spitteler imagies an animated sculpty Terrain: I'd like builders to be able to see actual collision spaces, including thatof the Primatr | |
| [17:52] | Rex Cronon: | i think so to sai |
| [17:52] | Teravus Ousley: | http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/project/primmesher <-- Dahlia's prim generation code (including collision proxies with sculptie proxies) |
| [17:53] | Teravus Ousley: | BSD licensed.. so it's free to use |
| [17:53] | Saijanai Kuhn: | several stiching models: sphere (closed) torus (closed) cylinder (half open) planar (full open) |
| [17:53] | Poon Voom: | Well, today Bug SVC-2570, otherwise known as the llVolumeDetect Avatar phantom bug, appears to be fixed. |
| [17:53] | Teravus Ousley: | yep |
| [17:53] | Poon Voom: | http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Phantom_Maker |
| [17:53] | Teravus Ousley: | Planar is interesting.. because you can walk through one side.. but collide with the other :D |
| [17:53] | Gregory Maurer: | for standing avatars |
| [17:53] | Andrew Linden: | However it was a useful misfeature Poon? |
| [17:53] | Nexii Malthus: | Ouch, was using that in a few products |
| [17:53] | Ethan Schuman: | Oh no. |
| [17:54] | Nexii Malthus: | Oh wait, for standing avatars? So we still can get phantom avs when sitting? |
| [17:54] | Poon Voom: | Well, with a phantom avatar, I made an entire line of vehicles that simulated armour in SL Damage combat. |
| [17:54] | Poon Voom: | We had ideas for Helicopters, Spaceships, based on this principle. |
| [17:55] | Poon Voom: | Nexii and Ethan also did. |
| [17:55] | Ethan Schuman: | (Not to mention the hyperdrive system that used the same feature) |
| [17:55] | Gregory Maurer: | Strangely enough, phantom vehicles using the vehicle api tend to get messed up when they go through stuff |
| [17:55] | Sindy Tsure would like that feature, if it was official | |
| [17:55] | Rex Cronon: | poon, i think that still works |
| [17:55] | Andrew Linden: | The application of the collisionless avatar is not clear to me. Please elaborate. |
| [17:55] | Saijanai Kuhn thinks that combat system needs upgrading in some way. | |
| [17:55] | Morgaine Dinova: | Andrew: to harness dev resource from the community for server-side, you could identify server-side functions that can be decoupled and devolved into new web services, and then let FOSS devs rip into those. |
| [17:55] | Poon Voom: | I could show the vehicles here, if that would be ok. |
| [17:55] | Poon Voom: | I spent alot of time scripting the attachments. |
| [17:55] | Rex Cronon: | no collision with bullets:) |
| [17:56] | Nexii Malthus: | No one would mind if it were fixed for standing up from the vehicles in mention, just that phantom was available for sitting |
| [17:56] | Gregory Maurer: | It still is available for sitting |
| [17:56] | Andrew Linden: | Morgaine, actually the plan is to move web service stuff out of the simulator, and someday (hopefully) make the simulator (physics engine and streaming logic) open source |
| [17:57] | Morgaine Dinova: | That would help. There's lot of people who would love to help if they could. |
| [17:57] | Andrew Linden: | unfortunately we're running out of time Poon, and I have to run at 18:00 |
| [17:57] | Poon Voom: | I understand. |
| [17:57] | Andrew Linden: | you could bring them next week |
| [17:57] | Nexii Malthus: | A question I had for a while, can we get a quaternion equivilant of llTargetOmega? |
| [17:57] | Andrew Linden: | or perhaps we could schedule an hour to look at them tomorrow |
| [17:57] | Poon Voom: | Alright, thank you so much Andrew. |
| [17:58] | Andrew Linden: | but I'm still vague on what the problem, or your proposal is |
| [17:58] | Andrew Linden: | except that it is affected by that bug fix |
| [17:58] | Andrew Linden: | avatars sit on vehicles |
| [17:58] | Sindy Tsure: | hi bc.. welcome to sl |
| [17:58] | Andrew Linden: | become collisionless |
| [17:58] | Andrew Linden: | but vehicles are not? |
| [17:58] | Andrew Linden: | or the whole collection is |
| [17:58] | Andrew Linden: | or maybe the attachments are vehicles? |
| [17:59] | Poon Voom: | I used a move to Target and attachments to make a "Psuedo" vehicle that followed an actual physical prim. |
| [17:59] | Andrew Linden: | Nexii, perhaps. We aren't adding many new LSL functions right now, but hopefully we'll arrive at an era where it will be easier. |
| [17:59] | Andrew Linden: | I |
| [18:00] | Nexii Malthus: | Alright, thats good to know |
| [18:00] | Andrew Linden: | I've been waiting for the MONO team to start adding their own new LSL funtions before I start working on my favorite LSL upgrade ideas. |
| [18:00] | Arawn Spitteler: | A thouht on Functionality, is thatdiffernet sim owners will want to support differnet functions. How to co-ordinate might use another level of functions. |
| [18:00] | Morgaine Dinova waves to Morgaine Alter :-)))) | |
| [18:00] | Andrew Linden: | ok Poon, so not using the Vehicle LSL api |
| [18:00] | Poon Voom: | Yeah. |
| [18:00] | Morgaine Alter: | hi :) nice to see you again :) |
| [18:01] | Andrew Linden: | the avatar would go phantom? |
| [18:01] | Gregory Maurer: | If you sit on a phantom vehicle using the api, the vehicle seems to rotate when it goes through things |
| [18:01] | MarkByron Falta: | . |
| [18:01] | Ethan Schuman: | Greg, that's likely avatar collision, which happens when you don't use volumedetect to phantom the av. |
| [18:02] | Poon Voom: | I feel I could better explain myself with a demonstation, could we do that now, or schedule it later? |
| [18:02] | Saijanai Kuhn: | Andrew is that even in the works I thought that LSL and mono LSL would stay the same until C#/CLR compilers were made available |
| [18:02] | Gregory Maurer: | Actually, prims fall right through me, but it seems like the "vehicle" hits things |
| [18:02] | Andrew Linden: | Poon, pick an hour tomorrow. Then remind me with an IM when I'm offline (goes to my email). |
| [18:02] | Nexii Malthus: | No, greg is correct, llVolumeDetect doesn't fully phantomise an avatar for some reason, it is very odd |
| [18:02] | Andrew Linden: | I've got to run guys, sorry. |
| [18:02] | Andrew Linden: | Got to be somewhere else ASAP. |
| [18:03] | Morgaine Dinova: | KK, see you Andrew, thanks :-) |
| [18:03] | Ethan Schuman: | Alright. Thanks for your time, Andrew. |
| [18:03] | Saijanai Kuhn: | Laters Andrfew |
| [18:03] | Gregory Maurer: | Goodbye andrew |
| [18:03] | Rex Cronon: | bye andrew |
| [18:03] | Poon Voom: | Thanks Andrew. |
| [18:03] | Nexii Malthus: | Cya Andrew |
| [18:03] | Sindy Tsure: | ty, andrew & simon! |
| [18:03] | Kitto Flora: | Byebye all |
| [18:03] | Erich Bremer: | bye |
| [18:03] | Nexii Malthus: | and everyone else |
| [18:03] | Arawn Spitteler wishes Andrew well, on his journey five minutes ito the past | |
| [18:03] | Morgaine Dinova: | Ethan, going to show us that rotated sim now? |
| [18:03] | Simon Linden: | Thanks everyone for coming ... see you next time |
| [18:03] | Sindy Tsure: | cyas! |
| [18:03] | Ethan Schuman: | Yes, those that want to see the VerticalSim, please send me an IM now. |