User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2009 03 12
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Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:
| [17:02] | Sindy Tsure: | hi hi andrew |
| [17:02] | Tegg Bode: | Hi all grey,colored, cloudy and transparent people ㋡ |
| [17:02] | Charlette Proto: | hi Andrew |
| [17:02] | Andrew Linden: | hello |
| [17:02] | Andrew Linden: | brb, I need to get some water... |
| [17:02] | Charlette Proto: | first question; can rezzing on simlines be stopped (griefers) |
| [17:02] | Sindy Tsure: | hiya simon |
| [17:03] | Charlette Proto: | hi Simon |
| [17:03] | Simon Linden: | Hi everyone |
| [17:03] | Sindy Tsure: | rezzing on sim lines? |
| [17:03] | Charlette Proto: | yep griefers rez grey-goo on simlines |
| [17:03] | Tegg Bode: | You own every popular spot on the mainland? ㋡ |
| [17:03] | Ardy Lay: | That's too big. --> ? |
| [17:03] | Sindy Tsure: | nope.. i just suspect that most of them fall into a theme.. |
| [17:04] | Morgaine Dinova: | Hi Andrew, Simon :-) |
| [17:04] | Charlette Proto: | Andrew first question; can rezzing on simlines be stopped (griefers) |
| [17:04] | Andrew Linden: | Charlette, could you elaborate on that? |
| [17:04] | Andrew Linden: | I'm not sure which exact grief mode you're talking about. |
| [17:05] | Charlette Proto: | griefers and some of the more crafty residents are able to rez on simlines eg Korea1 to Korea2 |
| [17:05] | Charlette Proto: | they keep trying till the sim allows it |
| [17:05] | Andrew Linden: | Hrm... so they are actually rezzing in Korea1? |
| [17:05] | Andrew Linden: | Or the objects are in the neighboring regions? |
| [17:06] | Asterion Coen: | hello folks |
| [17:06] | Sindy Tsure: | hiya |
| [17:06] | Andrew Linden: | Welcome Asterion. |
| [17:06] | Simon Linden: | Hello |
| [17:06] | Morgaine Dinova: | Hiya Ast :-) |
| [17:06] | Asterion Coen: | morgaine ;) |
| [17:06] | Andrew Linden: | Charlette, do you have a jira #? |
| [17:06] | Charlette Proto: | yep and it appears easy enough to teach to total noobs as well |
| [17:06] | Andrew Linden: | That is, has the bug been filed yet? I'm interested in what the "repro recipe" looks like. |
| [17:07] | Asterion Coen: | /(rezzing - dont wanna sit on the knees of somebody) ^^ |
| [17:07] | Charlette Proto: | the objects appear directly on the korea 1-3 simline |
| [17:07] | Sindy Tsure: | they rez stuff in a neighbor sim then move it in? |
| [17:07] | Charlette Proto: | keep touching (trying) till it works |
| [17:08] | Charlette Proto: | no way seen them do it many times |
| [17:08] | Sindy Tsure: | hey hey squirrel |
| [17:08] | Squirrel Wood: | /ao off |
| [17:08] | Asterion Coen: | hello squirrel |
| [17:08] | Wolfhaven Teleportation HUD v3.0 is Ready | |
| [17:08] | Squirrel Wood: | Hellos! |
| [17:08] | Kitto Flora: | Hi |
| [17:08] | Sindy Tsure: | so the no-rez rules break down right at the sim edge? |
| [17:08] | Andrew Linden: | Some may think that jira is a hassle, however it provides a place where relevant info can be storred, and it is very easy to point others at it, all you need is the #. |
| [17:08] | Asterion Coen: | oh, a kitto :) |
| [17:08] | Sindy Tsure: | hi kitto |
| [17:08] | Sindy Tsure: | and siann |
| [17:09] | Sindy Tsure: | you can tell LL made an announcement today. lots of new faces here! :) |
| [17:09] | Asterion Coen: | hello siann |
| [17:09] | Tegg Bode: | Hi Squirell |
| [17:09] | Charlette Proto: | everyone eg mentors talk about it so I must say I never even looked at this in JIRA assuming it was there |
| [17:09] | Siann Beck: | Wow! |
| [17:09] | Andrew Linden: | I've seen bigger crowds on non-announcement days. |
| [17:09] | Sindy Tsure: | true.. i'm likely full of it |
| [17:09] | Squirrel Wood: | Will mature flagged prims and non mature flagged prims be able to be linked together? |
| [17:10] | Simon Linden: | yeah, this is medium/large sized, but seems to keep growing :) |
| [17:10] | Morgaine Dinova purrs at Siann | |
| [17:10] | Kitto Flora escapes RL again | |
| [17:10] | Popcorn Box : Butter & Salt mmmmm! | |
| [17:10] | Moon Metty: | nuts! |
| [17:10] | Siann Beck: | :) |
| [17:10] | Squirrel Wood: | Nuts indeed. |
| [17:10] | Asterion Coen: | it stops to grow when the seats r out the sims :) |
| [17:11] | Tegg Bode: | Damn this popcorn is too salty to use a drinking animation |
| [17:11] | Andrew Linden: | Simon, is it possible to flag individual prims as "adults only"? I'm unfamiliar with the feature set of this new AO stuff. |
| [17:11] | Squirrel Wood: | the magic ring that provides seating space for up to 20+ people. |
| [17:11] | Asterion Coen: | poor kittie |
| [17:11] | Sindy Tsure: | hm? new ao stuff? |
| [17:12] | Squirrel Wood: | at the cost of a single prim :p |
| [17:12] | Simon Linden: | No, objects don't have a maturity rating |
| [17:12] | Sindy Tsure: | oh.. adults only.. not anim override |
| [17:12] | Moon Metty: | that's better |
| [17:12] | Tegg Bode: | Hmm table dancers, this isn't a ploy to throw people off topic ? ㋡ |
| [17:12] | Andrew Linden: | btw everyone, I'm looking for a less twitchy table. One that doesn't necessarily drop size when one person leaves. |
| [17:12] | Sindy Tsure: | do we have a topic yet? |
| [17:12] | Simon Linden: | Spice up office hours |
| [17:13] | Andrew Linden: | It should allow multiple empty chairs. |
| [17:13] | Charlette Proto: | well if you don't append a rating attribute to animations there is no point talking about XXX rated sims or any of this Marure bollocks |
| [17:13] | Andrew Linden: | Lesse... I have a few small announcements. |
| [17:13] | Tegg Bode: | Must pass the idea on to Jeremy ㋡ |
| [17:13] | Sindy Tsure is surprised the chairs aren't temp | |
| [17:13] | Sindy Tsure: | oops.. |
| [17:13] | Asterion Coen: | let's build a amphytheater :) |
| [17:13] | Simon Linden: | We could re-program this one ... I'd like to let the chairs raise up higher, and maybe add some tweaking to the sit position |
| [17:13] | Andrew Linden: | I'm resurrecting my "object-parcel collision query" project. I just started today. |
| [17:14] | Asterion Coen: | :) |
| [17:14] | Andrew Linden: | This is a solution to the "prim encroachment" problem. |
| [17:14] | Sindy Tsure w00ts | |
| [17:14] | Andrew Linden: | Basically, parcel owners should be able to return objects that overlap their parcels. |
| [17:14] | Siann Beck: | Will we be able to have megaprims then? |
| [17:14] | Moon Metty: | ahh, so it won't be automatic, good |
| [17:14] | Andrew Linden: | I dunno what the timeline is for it... probably server-1.28, whenever that is. |
| [17:15] | Squirrel Wood: | you can check client side if the global touch coordinates on a prim are on your parcel ? |
| [17:15] | Andrew Linden: | Not automatic. And, I'll probably enable it mainland-only for the first incarnation. |
| [17:15] | Asterion Coen: | it will be fun, as the prims took the position at the middle of them (or the middle of the root one) |
| [17:15] | Tegg Bode: | hmm cool, I hope people will use it responsibly like not returning a whole shop or skybox before asking nicely for it to be repositioned |
| [17:15] | Squirrel Wood: | so client side the code is there |
| [17:15] | Moon Metty: | yes Squirrel |
| [17:15] | Morgaine Dinova: | The problem is that there isn't an immediate indicator that your build *is* overlapping. |
| [17:16] | Andrew Linden: | Mainland only mostly because some estate owners will want it to be a per-region or per-estate feature, and adding that feature toggle is a hassle. |
| [17:16] | Squirrel Wood: | if the coordinates are on your parcel but the objects center is not, then its encroaching ? |
| [17:16] | Siann Beck: | Yeah, that could get messy. There should be some way for the object owner to know for sure. |
| [17:16] | Sindy Tsure: | yep, squirrel |
| [17:17] | Andrew Linden: | "prim encroachment" would be an object whos physical shape overlaps into your parcel. |
| [17:17] | Kitto Flora: | Andrew, you might add a blocking feature for Linden Content |
| [17:17] | Tegg Bode: | Especially with skyboxws, unless you position them on the ground |
| [17:17] | Charlette Proto: | the show boundary should be extended beyond ground for starters |
| [17:17] | Andrew Linden: | Kitto, I asked Michael Linden about that and he said to let linden content be returnable |
| [17:17] | Kitto Flora: | Oh lordy |
| [17:17] | Squirrel Wood: | boundary beacons should render at avatar height and you should be able to toggle them ? |
| [17:17] | Kitto Flora: | Miles of old road may vanish |
| [17:18] | Andrew Linden: | he felt that Linden content should be required to abide by regular encroachment rules. |
| [17:18] | Kitto Flora: | Well its the diagonals thats the problem, and those large jagged edges |
| [17:18] | Morgaine Dinova: | How about a View menu option, Highlight Parcel Encroachment->{Yours, Others} ? |
| [17:18] | Kitto Flora: | Contenet dont go over 50% of the jagged part, but in places it does some. |
| [17:18] | Andrew Linden: | Morgaine, the more complicated you make the feature the longer it will take to release. |
| [17:18] | Ardy Lay: | Some of the new roads hang over a bit in places. The space reserved for them was a bit tight. |
| [17:19] | Andrew Linden: | I'm going to keep it simple so I can release it in limited form. |
| [17:19] | Tegg Bode: | Hmm I wouldn't like to add that headache, I personally couldn't care if a Linden road enroaches my parcel, a tree perhaps I might like to remove though on occassion |
| [17:19] | Andrew Linden: | We can elaborate on it later. |
| [17:19] | Squirrel Wood: | Mayhaps a separate autoreturn setting for encroaching objects ? |
| [17:19] | Siann Beck: | There does need to be some way for the owner to know, though. |
| [17:19] | Moon Metty: | i agree Siann |
| [17:19] | Siann Beck: | *object owner |
| [17:19] | Andrew Linden: | Also, yeah the SL client will have to be modified... it already does the simple "root center vs parcel" check to know when to enable/disable the return UI |
| [17:19] | Morgaine Dinova: | Andrew: sure, but simple+implemented isn't always good. |
| [17:19] | Moon Metty: | and will there be a margin? |
| [17:19] | Moon Metty: | if so how big? |
| [17:20] | Andrew Linden: | Moon, yes there will be a margin. We're going to allow a little bit of overlap (probably 10cm) |
| [17:20] | Moon Metty: | ok |
| [17:20] | Andrew Linden: | mostly because there is 0.1m slop in collision shapes anyway. |
| [17:20] | Squirrel Wood: | Assume that the majority of the people is unable to follow even the simplest of instructions. |
| [17:20] | Kitto Flora: | Maybe 100cM then? |
| [17:21] | Charlette Proto: | the About Land > Objects floater is the best way to include it since there is a list of objects and a show button as well as return - all we need is a tickbox or something for encroachment |
| [17:21] | Kitto Flora: | Er 20cm |
| [17:21] | Moon Metty: | i discovered it's possible to move an object to 256.99 with llsetpos |
| [17:21] | Sindy Tsure: | or a percentage of the object size.. |
| [17:21] | Moon Metty: | and also to -0.99 |
| [17:21] | Kitto Flora: | the switch is at 2M |
| [17:22] | PulseBurst Flow: | you dont' think some encroachment should be allowed? like putting a straight edge over a jaggy lindend diagonal road? I've seen it done...even by a Mole.. |
| [17:22] | PulseBurst Flow: | along the edge |
| [17:22] | Andrew Linden: | objects that are at -0.99 may transition over to the other region... there are some details there |
| [17:22] | Andrew Linden: | while you select it it is in the local region |
| [17:22] | Andrew Linden: | if you select it and -0.99 then deselect it... it should transition to the other region |
| [17:23] | Andrew Linden: | ... if it is static |
| [17:23] | Moon Metty: | yes, i saw that |
| [17:23] | Andrew Linden: | if it is dynamic, then it will transition at -1.0+ |
| [17:23] | Andrew Linden: | er... -1.0- |
| [17:23] | Tegg Bode: | Wonder what happens if the object is only .20 in size? |
| [17:23] | Moon Metty: | but just using llsepos, you can get up to 1 m over the border |
| [17:24] | Sindy Tsure: | in any direction or is that a 255/256 thing? |
| [17:24] | Andrew Linden: | Well, the encroachment return will be manual... so if a parcel owner realy wants an ugly chunk out of the road rather than a slight overlap then they'll be allowed. |
| [17:24] | Andrew Linden: | Actually, that is my plan. I'm currently asking for a consensus with other Lindens on the details. |
| [17:25] | Moon Metty: | in either direction Sindy, but -1 is included |
| [17:25] | Sindy Tsure: | sounds good andrew! looking forward to more details, as you nail them down! |
| [17:25] | Ardy Lay: | Oh dear. I just spotted a scary looking item in the Advanced menu. |
| [17:25] | Sindy Tsure: | 'request admin status'? |
| [17:25] | Andrew Linden: | I guess that is the only announcement I've got. |
| [17:25] | Simon Linden: | Did you select it to see what would happen? |
| [17:25] | Ardy Lay: | "Hacked Godmode" |
| [17:25] | Ardy Lay: | No! |
| [17:25] | Andrew Linden: | I'm currently working on about three different projects, and I can't even remember what they all ar. |
| [17:25] | Sindy Tsure has before.. even scarier message when you do it | |
| [17:26] | Kitto Flora: | Andrew, did you look at the mysterious object in Moritz? |
| [17:26] | Moon Metty: | when you select it, it changes region |
| [17:26] | Moon Metty: | or deselect, i'm not sure |
| [17:26] | Sindy Tsure: | "[17:26] Request for special powers failed. This request has been logged." |
| [17:26] | Siann Beck: | When this is done, will we be able to have megaprims, Andrew? |
| [17:26] | Andrew Linden: | Oh, not yet Kitto. I'll try to examine it after this meeting. |
| [17:27] | Andrew Linden: | Yes, megaprims eventually Siann. A solution to prim encroachment is a prerequisite for full megaprim support. |
| [17:27] | Kitto Flora: | OK |
| [17:27] | Asterion Coen: | that's about what i did at Calleta (hobos info hub) about the train station at grand calleta terminal. to make the sim better some of my builds r on the gov linden land (where there is a railway - without disturbing the Linden train - witch isnot working for months thought) |
| [17:27] | Siann Beck: | Right. |
| [17:27] | Squirrel Wood: | I have requested admin status several times on error... no need to worry about it ^^ |
| [17:27] | Moon Metty: | mmm! |
| [17:27] | Squirrel Wood: | if ye ain't a linden it'll not work regardless what you do |
| [17:27] | Ardy Lay: | "Request Admin Status" has been there for a while. What's this "Hacked Godmode" thing doing in here? |
| [17:27] | Sindy Tsure: | yep, squirrel.. i was a bit nervous the first time i saw it, tho |
| [17:28] | Tegg Bode: | Hacked GodMode, cool, infinite lives ㋡ |
| [17:28] | Simon Linden: | And abilities :) |
| [17:28] | Andrew Linden: | What "hacked godmode" thing are we talking about? |
| [17:28] | Simon Linden: | It's a viewer option |
| [17:28] | Ardy Lay: | n my "Advanced" menu |
| [17:28] | Gellan Glenelg: | 8th option down, in Advanced menu |
| [17:28] | Squirrel Wood clicks the grid wide object return button and watches the asset servers die from the onslaught of requests... | |
| [17:28] | Siann Beck: | lol |
| [17:28] | Moon Metty: | somone must have hacked god |
| [17:29] | Andrew Linden: | Ah yes. Don't worry about that. I think you get automaticaly banned on the 327th time you try to use it. |
| [17:29] | Sindy Tsure doesnt' have that option.. you using a 3rd-party viewer? | |
| [17:29] | Siann Beck: | lol |
| [17:29] | Charlette Proto: | Admin is good for everyone to do TPs on strangers and a few other things |
| [17:29] | Ardy Lay: | Second Life 1.22.11 (113941) Mar 6 2009 12:50:02 (Second Life Release) |
| [17:29] | Charlette Proto: | sindy Ctr Alt V |
| [17:30] | Squirrel Wood: | Second Life 1.22.11 (113976) Mar 6 2009 16:05:03 (Second Life Release Candidate) |
| [17:30] | Tegg Bode: | Nope don;t have it in the RC viewer |
| [17:30] | Siann Beck needs to upgrade... | |
| [17:30] | Andrew Linden: | Any godmode request you make should fail. If you discover otherwise file a jira bug about it. |
| [17:30] | Siann Beck: | After having a little fun, of course :) |
| [17:30] | Charlette Proto: | same in public release |
| [17:30] | Arawn Spitteler: | Changing the sim name to something else didn't seem to work |
| [17:30] | Kitto Flora: | @teleport CharletteProto = CornField. |
| [17:30] | Siann Beck: | lol |
| [17:30] | Andrew Linden: | In fact, while you have godmode, go ahead and kick yourself ;-) |
| [17:30] | Ardy Lay: | Hehe |
| [17:30] | Squirrel Wood: | if I discover any godmode functions work for me I'll force TP you to my location ^^ |
| [17:30] | Moon Metty: | lol |
| [17:30] | Sindy Tsure: | that sounds a lot like "if you find a big bag of cash, please report it" to me, andrew |
| [17:30] | Charlette Proto: | no way not going back to the cornfield |
| [17:31] | Siann Beck: | Hee hee! |
| [17:31] | Morgaine Dinova: | Imprudence RC2 has the God tools on a separate Admin menu. |
| [17:31] | Moon Metty: | doh |
| [17:31] | Andrew Linden: | Actually, I think an exploit in god mode could earn you... $10k linden as bounty. |
| [17:31] | Kitto Flora: | Cool! |
| [17:31] | Sindy Tsure: | oh.. |
| [17:31] | Andrew Linden: | er... L$10k |
| [17:31] | Ardy Lay: | Sounds like the "free tee-shirt" gag SA CATV systems used to catch cable-TV thieves |
| [17:32] | Charlette Proto: | workin on enabling a few more God Tools like KICK |
| [17:32] | Squirrel Wood: | you should be able to pick up an avatar like an object and fling them out of the sim ^^ |
| [17:32] | Andrew Linden: | ok, the table is open. Anybody have other questions or issues? |
| [17:32] | PulseBurst Flow: | yes |
| [17:32] | Andrew Linden: | (BTW, I finally posted the last 4 or 5 office hour transcripts today) |
| [17:33] | Ardy Lay: | Well, the only one I wanted was returning encroaching objects, so.... :-) |
| [17:33] | Arawn Spitteler wasn't able to kick himself, when he shot for Everybody | |
| [17:33] | Ardy Lay: | (Godmode ability, that is) |
| [17:33] | PulseBurst Flow: | land owners can ban, non-age-verified, and non-payment..how about landowner banning by high avatar rendering cost. |
| [17:33] | Squirrel Wood: | any chance that scripts will be able to set terrafom strength or just llSetGround(wantedheight) ? |
| [17:33] | Charlette Proto: | XXX attributes on all objects would be the basis for the emergin Mature problems - is it feasible to implement something like that |
| [17:34] | Andrew Linden: | ok... hang on. |
| [17:34] | Charlette Proto: | hehe one would think we all have sex problems here |
| [17:34] | Andrew Linden: | banning by avatar rendering cost... per parcel. That sounds hard. What happens when they stand right next to the parcel? |
| [17:34] | Simon Linden: | We talked about it a lot internally and didn't want to get into maturity ratings on objects |
| [17:34] | Arawn Spitteler doesn't understand Charlette's reference to Triple X Rated Obbjects | |
| [17:35] | Andrew Linden: | I'd prefer to see a render-side solution to that problem. |
| [17:35] | Sindy Tsure: | being able to rate an object as adult so it couldn't be placed on PG land, arawn |
| [17:35] | Squirrel Wood: | there are HUDs that cause an ARC of 130,000+ but don't really impact performance |
| [17:35] | Andrew Linden: | Although, perhaps it makes sense for parcel owners to be abel to restrict script resource allocations for avatars. |
| [17:35] | Sindy Tsure: | just being able to measure them would be a HUGE plus, andrew |
| [17:35] | Charlette Proto: | in order to stop exposure of minors to mature content one would have to disable the operation of many interactions eg animations in the presence of young residents |
| [17:35] | Andrew Linden: | But on that too, I'd much rather just fix the script resource allocation problems on the server, and limit per-avatar resources in general. |
| [17:36] | PulseBurst Flow: | yes, well, they can pull down lot of resources on your land, by visiting. |
| [17:36] | Arawn Spitteler: | That makes a certain degree of sense, but being able to prohibit German ISPs from Age Play Simscould be done as easily |
| [17:36] | Siann Beck: | Or just now allow minors onto the adult grid? |
| [17:36] | Siann Beck: | Or is the merger becoming fact? |
| [17:36] | Charlette Proto: | eg thing of the implications of the Sex Wallet which is not a sim rating related source of exposure |
| [17:36] | Sindy Tsure: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-835 |
| [17:36] | Andrew Linden: | I don't know much about the "Adults Only" policy and feature changes. |
| [17:37] | Andrew Linden: | You best bet on details there would be to follow the blog posts and any forum discussions on it. |
| [17:37] | Sindy Tsure: | and https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-22 , while i've got jira in my copy/paste buffer.. :P |
| [17:37] | Andrew Linden: | I don't think we're going to join Teen SL to the rest of the world. There are no motions on it that I know about. |
| [17:37] | Simon Linden: | Siann - we haven't annouced anything about the Teen grid. Today's annoucement was about getting the main grid a bit more organized so the serious adult stuff is limited to accounts that have some form of age proof |
| [17:38] | Gellan Glenelg: | Siann, the adult-only FAQ states (something like - KB is down atm) "there are no planned changes to the Teen Grid" |
| [17:38] | Charlette Proto: | short of stopping XXX object activities there is no point in talking about region defined restrictions |
| [17:38] | Siann Beck: | Well, I did notice today's post mentioned something about those who "ought to" be able to view adult content. |
| [17:38] | Tegg Bode: | In reality despite the land ratings you'r not going to have a problem using a sexbed in a skybox, but opening a Ponygirl Hentai club at groundlevel would be an issue I suspect |
| [17:38] | Andrew Linden: | There are problems with Teen SL... mostly that adults that should be abel to interact with teens (their parents, educators, and people who provide teen services) are constrained there. |
| [17:39] | Simon Linden: | Tegg - exactly, glad to hear a rational response :) |
| [17:39] | Sindy Tsure: | and people who, for whatever legal reason, feel they need to stay anonymous at these places? |
| [17:39] | Andrew Linden: | But I think any Teen + main grid merge would have a lot of issues to be worked out. I don't think anyone is too eager to dig into those at this time. |
| [17:39] | Simon Linden: | And if you want to open a club like that, there's now going to be a place for it |
| [17:40] | Squirrel Wood: | why open up a separate "adult continent" ? |
| [17:40] | Squirrel Wood: | Why not just a separate "PG Continent" ? |
| [17:40] | Sindy Tsure: | because it's far more work than opening a PG continent |
| [17:40] | Squirrel Wood: | that way nobody will have to move |
| [17:40] | Siann Beck: | Amen, Squirrel. |
| [17:40] | Ardy Lay: | To give me a place to avoid. :-) |
| [17:40] | Simon Linden: | Well, reading the blog is the best place to get the full picture |
| [17:40] | Morgaine Dinova: | Treating people on Basic accounts as kids is not rational. It's highly discriminatory. |
| [17:41] | Charlette Proto: | Adult Life™ |
| [17:41] | Andrew Linden: | Dunno Squirrel. I guess the logical assumption would be that most of the in-world content is already PG. |
| [17:41] | Squirrel Wood: | the majority of the existing content is adult themed... |
| [17:41] | Siann Beck: | Those who feel so strongly abuot not seeing something undesireable that the thought of it is just unbearable, can have their own area. |
| [17:41] | Kitto Flora: | Avatar Scrript Cost: Aparently the Sim version thats on Preview now shows Avatar-attched Scripts time in Top Scripts. So island owners can see the load that Avs bring into their sim. |
| [17:41] | Andrew Linden: | What do you estimate the mix to be? |
| [17:41] | Simon Linden: | Basic accounts have nothing to do with it ... it's age verification, which is independant of account type |
| [17:41] | Sindy Tsure: | no.. the majority of existing content isn't adult.. the majority of _used_ existing content is adult.. |
| [17:41] | Simon Linden: | Right Kitto, AVs should show up in the top scripts |
| [17:42] | Sindy Tsure: | * _in use_ |
| [17:42] | Charlette Proto: | Avatar Scrript Cost sound fantastic |
| [17:42] | Squirrel Wood: | avatar resource cost would be cool to know |
| [17:42] | Squirrel Wood: | as in, how much ram does it eat up on the sim |
| [17:42] | Kitto Flora: | Real XXX content in SL: Maybe 5% at most |
| [17:42] | Charlette Proto: | who cares for rendering cost when the scripts stop the sims |
| [17:42] | Andrew Linden: | Squirrel, I didn't understand your question about script-controlled strength for terrain editing. Could you explain? |
| [17:42] | Sindy Tsure thinks you're way off, kitto | |
| [17:42] | Squirrel Wood: | real xxx.... but there is tons of questionable content. :p |
| [17:43] | Squirrel Wood: | scripts have basic control on terraforming. |
| [17:43] | Kitto Flora: | Yeah and lost of questionable people looking |
| [17:43] | Squirrel Wood: | like the client used to have. |
| [17:43] | Ardy Lay: | Oh... That was easy enough to find. :-) http://slurl.com/secondlife/Oraenji/243/95/88 |
| [17:43] | Squirrel Wood: | nowadays the client lets you adjust the strength of the terraform |
| [17:43] | Squirrel Wood: | yet scripts still suffer from predefined values for strength |
| [17:43] | Morgaine Dinova: | Simon: Since when are people who refuse to divulge their private details to Lindens inherently not adults? I think it's you who are mixing two different things together. |
| [17:44] | Andrew Linden: | Squirrel, do you have a proposed set of changes? Have you mocked up how the script calls should be changed? |
| [17:44] | Squirrel Wood: | I have talked to Soft about that a bit |
| [17:44] | Squirrel Wood: | and Soft thought that perchance a llSetGround(float height) may be the best solution |
| [17:45] | Siann Beck: | I like that idea, Squirrel. |
| [17:45] | Tegg Bode: | I doubtr we should remove verification from every internet site in the web because there are people who for legal reasons don't want to verify them selves |
| [17:45] | Simon Linden: | Sure, they may be adults. In a while, if they want access to adult content, they |
| [17:45] | Squirrel Wood: | so you can, within the given constraints, directly set the desired terrain height for a mesh point |
| [17:45] | Elric Ember: | Other virtual worlds, such as There.com, are an example of what happens when content is segregated. The kids harrass the paying adults, who ended up coming here instead. |
| [17:45] | Simon Linden: | they'll need to verify it somehow. It won't be exclusively with LL |
| [17:45] | Andrew Linden: | llSetGround(float) would only affect the position below the scripted object's root prim? |
| [17:45] | Squirrel Wood: | yes. |
| [17:45] | Squirrel Wood: | or rather, within the given brush size as all the other terraform commands |
| [17:46] | Arawn Spitteler thinks this an odd location | |
| [17:46] | Andrew Linden: | I'll try to add it to my list of "probably easy" new script features. However it would help if you were to open a jira about it. |
| [17:46] | Arawn Spitteler: | [13:05] Arawn Spitteler: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4951448613711060908 |
| [17:46] | Ardy Lay: | Squirrel, that would be nice to have. |
| [17:46] | Squirrel Wood: | because all other commands let you define either 2, 4 or 8m brush size |
| [17:46] | Kitto Flora: | Outside of USA nad some of Europe, Verification seems to be a failure... Impossible. Countries simply dont have the infrastructure |
| [17:46] | Squirrel Wood: | I think I do have a jira about it |
| [17:46] | Ardy Lay: | Gimme. I'll vote. |
| [17:46] | Andrew Linden: | ok, post the jira # here for posterity. |
| [17:47] | Andrew Linden: | (so I can look it up in my office hour transcripts later) |
| [17:47] | Sindy Tsure: | cya, all |
| [17:47] | Asterion Coen: | cya sindy |
| [17:47] | Arawn Spitteler: | Top of myscreensays Denby 215, 41, 33 (Mature) - Mystc Academy -Oe Light, Man Paths - Spirit City |
| [17:47] | Charlette Proto: | byee sindy |
| [17:47] | PulseBurst Flow: | are those transcripts online? |
| [17:47] | Squirrel Wood: | jira is slow again |
| [17:47] | Squirrel Wood: | yes |
| [17:47] | Andrew Linden: | yes PulsBurst, I post all my office hour transcripts |
| [17:48] | PulseBurst Flow: | ok..I'll look for them. ;D |
| [17:48] | Andrew Linden: | perhaps someone has the link handy (I'll look it up now0 |
| [17:48] | Simon Linden: | Arawn - odd, mine has the right info. What viewer are you using? |
| [17:48] | Andrew Linden: | https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Andrew_Linden |
| [17:48] | Squirrel Wood: | https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3732 |
| [17:48] | Arawn Spitteler: | Latest RC, I teleported here, from the Spirit City Sim |
| [17:48] | Squirrel Wood: | there is your jira ^^ |
| [17:48] | PulseBurst Flow: | thanks |
| [17:48] | Morgaine Dinova: | Yeah, LL's actions are very US-centric. And US isn't even a majority of the SL population. What's more, outside of the US we aren't all at the beck and call of religious puritans. |
| [17:48] | Andrew Linden: | ok thanks for that link Squirrel |
| [17:49] | Squirrel Wood: | LL is a US based company. therefor the US centricity ? |
| [17:49] | Siann Beck thinks LL should relocate to Sealand | |
| [17:49] | Morgaine Dinova: | The virtual world and the company are two different things. |
| [17:49] | Arawn Spitteler: | Norway they ave los of Wind Power |
| [17:50] | Moon Metty: | Atlantis |
| [17:50] | Asterion Coen: | oh, a good news for LL ^^, gambling will be legal in europe (most of the national gamblings trusts r not the only ones to be abble to provide them) :) |
| [17:50] | Simon Linden: | Hmm, maybe San Francisco IS too conservative... |
| [17:50] | Moon Metty: | lol |
| [17:50] | Kitto Flora: | Some people in acertain office on Battery in SF are too conservative |
| [17:50] | Arawn Spitteler: | In Hollnd, Germany's ban on Age Play wouldn' te legal |
| [17:50] | Morgaine Dinova: | Remember the motto: "Your world, your imagination". NOT "Your world, US puritan imagination", nor even "Your world, LL imagination". |
| [17:51] | Morgaine Dinova: | It's meant to be our world. |
| [17:51] | Charlette Proto: | how about locating the server farm offfshore on a ship |
| [17:51] | Charlette Proto: | Morg "Your world, US puritan regulations" |
| [17:52] | Squirrel Wood: | your world, yes. but LL runs it and therefore defines its laws and regulations. |
| [17:52] | Simon Linden: | How many European countries are OK with BDSM with the under-18 crowd? |
| [17:52] | Asterion Coen: | i would agree with morgaine, LL purpose activity should stay in the matter of providing lands - and put other activities (studio prod, other contents stuffs or additionnal third parties tools) unden another denomination :) |
| [17:52] | Asterion Coen: | under* |
| [17:52] | Tegg Bode: | Gambling may become legal in yourope but will "program your own odds slot machines" and "play poker against the houses alts" be legal? |
| [17:52] | Morgaine Dinova: | Fraid so, and it's wrong, because LL is just the infrastructure provider, not the world moral guardian. |
| [17:53] | Siann Beck: | But there shouldn't be an under-18 crowd here. |
| [17:53] | Kitto Flora: | Simon: You are mixing up the problems |
| [17:53] | Moon Metty: | right Siann |
| [17:53] | Elric Ember: | And if user's can't create what they want here, they will find alternative places to do it |
| [17:53] | Arawn Spitteler: | Actually, they'retrying to pen the grid, and leave Linden Labs in charge of Asset Contrl |
| [17:53] | Simon Linden: | Right - and we're not making everyone age verify to get here. |
| [17:53] | Morgaine Dinova: | Yep, Simon is purposely conflating the two issues. |
| [17:53] | Simon Linden: | No, I'm just trying to explain what we're trying to do |
| [17:53] | Morgaine Dinova: | We're just trying to keep adult life free, nothing else. Not trying to affect minors. |
| [17:54] | Gellan Glenelg: | which would be fine is you could guarantee there are no minors on the main grid |
| [17:54] | Simon Linden: | This is most analgous to having to show ID before getting into an adult club |
| [17:54] | Kitto Flora: | Right Simon. But if someone under 18 gets into sl its NOT LL's fault - they have met 'resonable attempt'. And it up to local authority to deal with kid who went some place they should not. |
| [17:55] | Moon Metty: | there is no way to guarantee that Gellan |
| [17:55] | Charlette Proto: | any way none of this will actually stop kids from anything - just a bit of a good PR for LL |
| [17:55] | Gellan Glenelg: | exactly |
| [17:55] | Arawn Spitteler: | Whgat qualifies as Adult is subject to local morality, rather than Congressional |
| [17:55] | Asterion Coen: | the main prob in that actual world is that the corporations r now responsive of what r doing folks using provider servicesn instead to directly purchase the customer (ok, a corporation can give lot more money than the folks) |
| [17:55] | Charlette Proto: | imagine the infux of kids on the grid when this hits the media |
| [17:55] | Kitto Flora: | Simon: Its not RL is RL!! SL is fiction! |
| [17:55] | Tegg Bode: | I think the problem could be solved by creating 2 new continents, one for X rated stuff and one for mixing with teens (with a strong policing policy) and leave the existing mainland as mature and just add the teen grid to the main grid with restricted access. Islands can do as they please to any of the above. |
| [17:55] | Morgaine Dinova: | This is not RL -- "Second" Life, remember? Not First Life, so how about stopping thinking about RL clubs, especially since it's not enforceable. It's pure theater. |
| [17:56] | Charlette Proto: | agree |
| [17:56] | Tegg Bode: | Then people can migrate natrually to the one they want |
| [17:56] | Asterion Coen: | i see my music on youtube posted by some guy, i will purchase youtube, and not the guy |
| [17:56] | Kitto Flora: | Humm - what was that sincity in A.I. ? |
| [17:57] | Andrew Linden: | I thought it was Atlanta (in the future). |
| [17:57] | Morgaine Dinova: | Indeed, good idea. Just make a whole new PG-only continent. |
| [17:57] | Simon Linden: | That _might_ happen some day |
| [17:57] | Arawn Spitteler: | Liberatin from theregulations of California, a Province if the United Socialist States of America, isn't something ndrew's goingto burn himself with. |
| [17:58] | Simon Linden: | but today we annouced the adult continent |
| [17:58] | Andrew Linden: | Although, why New York would be under water but not Atlanta... doesn't make sense now I guess. |
| [17:58] | Tegg Bode: | Yhen caming and object issues would be nearly null and void. Did they announce an adult continent? |
| [17:58] | Asterion Coen: | a specific continent should be a good idea about adult contents. with the interdiction to go in any other places |
| [17:58] | Elric Ember: | Handle it like the web is now, third party providers offer parental controls and filters |
| [17:59] | Arawn Spitteler thins a lot of teens wouldlike to control their parents, just s theyfilter them. | |
| [17:59] | Kitto Flora: | Thats town with all the neon and the ring where they killed Bots? was that Atlanta? |
| [17:59] | PulseBurst Flow: | lol SImon...Got a landmark? |
| [17:59] | Tegg Bode: | Or just let your government decide what you can access like they are trying to get passed in Australia |
| [17:59] | Charlette Proto: | how about if underage users' screens simply didn't display XXX tagged content |
| [17:59] | Morgaine Dinova: | Third parties are unaccountable. At least here we can give LL a bashing when they get it wrong. The content pressure groups in UK are totally out of control. |
| [18:00] | Kitto Flora: | Australia is going to the dingos. |
| [18:00] | Asterion Coen: | but we should keep in mind than if u put a sign 'not for children' in the step of your door, be sure all kids will be on your land |
| [18:00] | Charlette Proto: | and blocked chat/voice from XXX approved users as well |
| [18:00] | Simon Linden: | The new land isn't up yet ... but I do know people are working on making it nice. |
| [18:00] | Arawn Spitteler wonders if an Austin Powers Motorcycle, with knee side saddlebags, would be XX or G | |
| [18:00] | Tegg Bode: | Space tenteclegirlswhatever.com can set their own access rules and so can LL |
| [18:00] | Squirrel Wood: | They are not using my terraformer. How can it ever look nice? |
| [18:00] | Simon Linden: | We'd _like_ the adult stuff to succeed - the more people using SL, the better, whatever they are doing |
| [18:01] | Squirrel Wood: | ^^ |
| [18:01] | Elric Ember: | so, why do we care about the underaged? what do they bring to the table? |
| [18:01] | Morgaine Dinova: | The whole thing is theater. Are you going to deny sales of shapes and skins in PG lands? |
| [18:01] | Arawn Spitteler: | What's this about Saving Objects back to Inventory? Was thee a plagiarism Expoloit on that? |
| [18:01] | Squirrel Wood: | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRlUD0tb9z4&fmt=18 |
| [18:01] | Simon Linden: | It's just not good for us as a company, a legal entity, to let it all happen by itself without any design |
| [18:01] | Charlette Proto: | but Second Life™ is for over 18 yo people |
| [18:01] | Simon Linden: | And the current PG/M system doesn't work |
| [18:01] | Andrew Linden: | Tegg, you really need to be careful before you speculate some unlikely domain name. You checked that one before you posted it here right? |
| [18:02] | Tegg Bode: | Probably skins and shapes should be sold on Mature land, not PG |
| [18:02] | Asterion Coen: | at least with an adult continent, it will be fun to do stats about how many ppl r on the adult sims and how many r not |
| [18:02] | Andrew Linden: | (I've seen such random domain name mentions go terribly wrong) |
| [18:02] | Simon Linden: | Elric - we'd like educators to be able use Second Life. Currently, it's really bad for any institution with students under 18 |
| [18:02] | Simon Linden: | ... which are a lot of 'em |
| [18:03] | Kitto Flora: | Humm - should I disable my kids steam train from running in an 'Adult Continent'? |
| [18:03] | Morgaine Dinova: | I think the world is evolving fine, it's emergent behaviour. It's not evolving as you may want it, but that's a separate issue. It's our world. |
| [18:03] | Tegg Bode: | Why could spacetentacleswhatever.com sue me for saying they can set their own access rules? ㋡ |
| [18:03] | Asterion Coen: | i just hope they will be more ppl on non adult areas, i dont really wanna to recycle into sexshop builder |
| [18:03] | Elric Ember: | Could be sales opportunity to provide the educational institution with their own sim |
| [18:03] | Simon Linden: | Kitto - heck, build a new one on the adult continent with extra poseballs. Probably some interesting possibilites there |
| [18:03] | Andrew Linden: | No Tegg, I'm suggesting that it might not be a good domain to visit ;-) |
| [18:04] | Charlette Proto: | education - then what about Quality of Service obligations or even realistic defence from griefers - I'd grief my exam session myself |
| [18:04] | Simon Linden: | "Class cancelled due to griefing" |
| [18:05] | Charlette Proto: | precisely State Exams postponed - ever heard of thet |
| [18:05] | Ardy Lay: | Class! This is how we tell the G-Team what is happening here. |
| [18:05] | Ardy Lay: | AR FIling lessons |
| [18:05] | Andrew Linden: | Ah, I see the hour is up. I'm going to have to go. |
| [18:05] | Ardy Lay: | How to provide the right information |
| [18:05] | Morgaine Dinova: | "School derezzed owing to pink floppy bit found in locker." |
| [18:05] | Squirrel Wood: | I had to AR an idiot today... was griefing help island |
| [18:05] | Moon Metty: | it's a good idea, but maybe not, and I'm not being indecisive |
| [18:06] | Andrew Linden: | Kitto, I'll try to examine that ghost collider you were talking about. |
| [18:06] | Asterion Coen: | classes on private sims, ppl give money to enter, and they got refound after the classes if they had a correct behavor ) |
| [18:06] | Elric Ember: | If an educational institution wants a website, they dont expect their isp to sanitize the internet |
| [18:06] | Arawn Spitteler: | Most would simply ban from parcel; it's only if you'e using Voice that Griefers beome a roblem |
| [18:06] | Andrew Linden: | thanks for coming everyone |
| [18:06] | Charlette Proto: | education beyond hobbies is just not realistic in Second Life™ besides plagiarism related issues |
| [18:06] | Squirrel Wood: | have a grrrrreat day! |
| [18:06] | Moon Metty: | thank you Andrew |
| [18:06] | Asterion Coen: | thx andrew != |
| [18:06] | Moon Metty: | and Simon as usual :) |
| [18:06] | PulseBurst Flow: | thanks andrew, simon |
| [18:06] | Simon Linden: | Elric - they also don't expect Joe's BDSM accessories to be a neighbor |
| [18:06] | Charlette Proto: | ty Lindens |
| [18:06] | Kitto Flora: | Byebye all |
| [18:06] | Asterion Coen: | "!=" = " :)" |
| [18:06] | Simon Linden: | Thanks all for coming |
| [18:06] | Elric Ember: | get their own sim |
| [18:06] | Tegg Bode: | I think this grid and world is big enough to allow people a continent where they know there are reasonable steps taken to keep minors out just as there should be steps taken to keep adults out of the teen only areas |
| [18:06] | Elric Ember: | just like i did |
| [18:06] | Morgaine Dinova: | Thanks Andrew, Simon. And you'll be getting a lot more earfuls over the changes, sorry ;-) |
| [18:06] | Siann Beck: | Thanks, Andrew and Simon |
| [18:06] | Asterion Coen: | and thx simon :) |
| [18:06] | Arawn Spitteler notes that the issueof Save Back to Inventory got less mentionthan SVC-22 | |
| [18:07] | Elric Ember: | thank you both |
| [18:07] | Simon Linden: | and less than porn :) |